So i ran this to a 2-0-1 finish at my local playgroup.
I won't go into detail here, because it was 3 Midrange MU's in a row, so nothing really super-interesting here.
I won the grind every time, simple as that.
tidehollow sculler did his thing and was likely ok.
Even teh Mana requirements were good, i had no problems casting him. thraben inspector has been good too, so i'll stick to it.
Sideboarding is a bit weird. That's something i need to figure out.
The first two are too narrow imho, I wouldn't use them over the more universal discard spells or something like Anguished Unmaking.
I would also prefer Zealous Persecution over Orzhov Pontiff as it costs less and combines both effects and the body you get is rather negligible anyway.
Fulminator Mage is good but can be rather difficult to cast reliably.
Okay firstly, when playing dredge. Your relic needs to be expertly placed. T1 is good at drawing out hate, but if you have discard (TKS, IOK, even collective brutality) you need to use it to help pick SB hate. If you have two relics, then dropping one and holding the other for a time will be a nasty surprise for mr. dredge. He will need to eat an exile at inconvenient times. Also watch their mana. They will tap out which gives you an opportunity to drop a relic which can cost them a turn at a minimum.
Secondly Tidehollow sculler is used for a few reasons. Primarily is his interaction with Eldrazi Displacer. If you "displace" him twice in a row, then you get a "free" exile from hand. Combine this with TKS then you are able to lock an opponents draws once you have 6 mana available (Eldrazi temple is gold here). This is an inevitability factor that cannot be avoided. Also in this situation when they draw a land, you get to further remove more of what little they have left in their hand.
Has anyone tried a B/G version of the deck ?
I'm in process of trying different color combinations and having access to Ancient Stirrings and Abrupt Decay seems very good.
Okay firstly, when playing dredge. Your relic needs to be expertly placed. T1 is good at drawing out hate, but if you have discard (TKS, IOK, even collective brutality) you need to use it to help pick SB hate. If you have two relics, then dropping one and holding the other for a time will be a nasty surprise for mr. dredge. He will need to eat an exile at inconvenient times. Also watch their mana. They will tap out which gives you an opportunity to drop a relic which can cost them a turn at a minimum.
Secondly Tidehollow sculler is used for a few reasons. Primarily is his interaction with Eldrazi Displacer. If you "displace" him twice in a row, then you get a "free" exile from hand. Combine this with TKS then you are able to lock an opponents draws once you have 6 mana available (Eldrazi temple is gold here). This is an inevitability factor that cannot be avoided. Also in this situation when they draw a land, you get to further remove more of what little they have left in their hand.
Great points! I have been thinking about the Dredge match and I've concluded that I misplayed my Relics and that I should be able to get more value from them in the future. I also agree with focusing our hand disruption on protecting the Relics. Lastly I think you are right that Sculler and Displacer go extremely well together; a few months ago, another user posted the following deck list, which is based around flickering and using Rest in Peace plus Eternal Scourge for value:
I played this build a little, but wasn't really sold. Sculler has never felt super great to me, though others seem to do favor it. I strongly believe that playing Sculler pushes a deck away from running a bunch of C spells, FWIW. Frank Karsten's manabase analysis continues to be a deck building Bible for me.
Has anyone tried a B/G version of the deck ?
I'm in process of trying different color combinations and having access to Ancient Stirrings and Abrupt Decay seems very good.
Dryad Militant is both decent as early pressure and provides more fodder for proccessing.
What do you think ?
I dunno, Stirrings is obviously great, try it out and let us know how it goes! Personally, I consider a tapland a decent T1 play and I don't worry too much about it, especially if I have Souls or Temple in hand (or Mind Stone plus Relic), and the other cards that go with either. I suspect Dismember plus a heavy fetch/shock manabase is probably going to be too high a cost, especially without maindeck lifegain.
Has anyone tried a B/G version of the deck ?
I'm in process of trying different color combinations and having access to Ancient Stirrings and Abrupt Decay seems very good.
Dryad Militant is both decent as early pressure and provides more fodder for proccessing.
What do you think ?
I swapped out the Militant for Scavenging Ooze and Decay for Go For the Throat (I don't own any decays). I'm only on initial testing, but it's surprisingly solid. It plays closer to Bant Eldrazi than BW. Might want to consider some Noble Hierarch or Birds of Paradise for Bant's speed.
Of course, if we do that, why not just go Bant Eldrazi at that point? I think the discard of black makes it worthwhile. Discard alone makes the deck feel more proactive. Plus we can experiment with Lilianas (both LOTV and LLH). And collective brutality is still a beating for burn and infect.
Went 4-1 for 5th of 33 players tonight. My LGS has two Modern nights, on Mondays and Fridays, and I play this deck both days every week. Fridays are larger and looser, with more kids and more rogue decks, but I did manage to face a few competitive decks and/or good players. Deck is the same as posted before over the past couple of weeks. I can provide side in/out notes on request if anyone wants them.
vs. Suicide Zoo: 1-2 (0-1)
Lost G1 on the draw to a T3 combo... nuff said. G2 I got there with disruption and Lingering Souls. In G3 he kept a shaky hand with lots of answers and ripped my hand of removal apart with lots of Thoughtseizes and Inquisitions. I misplayed here and gave him delirium by leaving him a Traverse the Ulvenwald and removing Become Immense, which allowed him to search for a Death's Shadow that eventually killed me.
vs. Bushwhacker Zoo: 2-0 (1-1)
Wasteland Strangler was huge here as a 2-for-1 removing and trading with his threats. Collective Brutality was also very good. Soren closed G2 with Spirit tokens to put the match out of reach.
vs. Lantern Control: 2-0 (3-1)
I mulled to 6 on the play G1 and was rewarded with an opener of Thoughtseize, TKS, Swamp, Temple, Plains, and Lingering Souls... OK, I'll keep this! I took his Thoughtseize on T1 and then his Bridge on T3, which he was not able to recover from. In G2 I mulled an opening 7 that had Stony Silence and the means to cast it, but no way to quickly pressure him or remove a Bridge. He did drop a Bridge on T3, but I was able to Unmake it and then drop two Smashers for a quick end to the match. Very lucky draws made a potentially very tough match feel like a bye. Both Stony Silence and Ratchet Bomb are good in this match, but not together... Nonetheless I bring both of them in here. Kataki has his strengths, doesn't he.
vs. EldraziTron: 2-1 (4-1)
I got the draw. In G1 I watched him natural Tron, and then drop a... Matter Reshaper. I myself played TKS on my T3, taking his Kozilek. Things looked good until he shut me down with Chalice on 4 (!) and then drew into a couple of Smashers. But in G2 and 3 I was simply faster. Hand disruption from Thoughtseize and TKS was crucial in this match,a s was ramp from Temple. This guy is the ex-head judge for this shop and is a great player, but it came down to who drew better, and in this case that was me.
Thoughts: Well the key to my success tonight was all about Temple into Seer or Smasher. Pretty basic really, though the same could be said of really any Eldrazi deck. Souls was handy throughout the night, and Thoughtseize allowed me to take my opponents' Seers and Become Immense's, when Inquisition would have been dead. I continue to strongly favor Mind Stone as a T3 Seer or Smasher enabler, and it also turns on a T4 4x Spirits Lingering Souls play, which is very good and allows me to dodge Surgical Extraction one turn earlier, when that card is being played against me. My build definitely gains some game from having a bunch of cards that cantrip (Relic, Stone, Reshaper), even though lately I have not run Sea Gate Wreckage since I am back to 3x Ghost Quarter.
I try to keep the list in my sig updated as I make changes, so when I put up a new post, the link is accurate at that time. I sometimes include the list in a post here, like I did on my first post after I ended my experimentwith colorless Stompy. I would like Damnation back, but I traded mine away, so right now I have Languish, which is better against Selfless Spirit but worse against Bant Eldrazi.
what are peoples thoughts on warping wail? It shores up combo matches a bit and can also allow for an out in response blood moon by making a scion for your <> spells.
I try to keep the list in my sig updated as I make changes, so when I put up a new post, the link is accurate at that time. I sometimes include the list in a post here, like I did on my first post after I ended my experimentwith colorless Stompy. I would like Damnation back, but I traded mine away, so right now I have Languish, which is better against Selfless Spirit but worse against Bant Eldrazi.
Deadrift do you feel Relic still has a Place in your current deck with only Strangler as a processor and having other Exile effects? It gives you a card when you crack it sure but which other reason do you have for keeping it in? Just curious to the why..
I try to keep the list in my sig updated as I make changes, so when I put up a new post, the link is accurate at that time. I sometimes include the list in a post here, like I did on my first post after I ended my experimentwith colorless Stompy. I would like Damnation back, but I traded mine away, so right now I have Languish, which is better against Selfless Spirit but worse against Bant Eldrazi.
Deadrift do you feel Relic still has a Place in your current deck with only Strangler as a processor and having other Exile effects? It gives you a card when you crack it sure but which other reason do you have for keeping it in? Just curious to the why..
I still think Relic is a key part of this deck, especially in a meta with a lot of Dredge.
Strangler is amazing in an aggro meta because if it can process it is almost certainly going to be a 2-for-1, and value is what midrange decks are all about. All the potential exile effects have a downside: Path ramps the opponent, Sculler is mana-greedy and often returns its card when it dies (which it does to almost everything), Unmaking costs 3 CMC and 3 life, Declaration in Stone is sorcery speed and gives card(s) to the opponent, Oblivion Ring is 3 CMC and sorcery speed, and Relic needs graveyard fodder. Of these, Relic is the least painful option.
Just as important, Relic is great pre-boarding against any deck with Snapcaster or Goyf, or Eternal Witness or Kitchen Finks or Scavenging Ooze or Reveillark etc. Clearly it is good against graveyard decks like Dredge, Living End, and Storm. It can keep opponents off Delirium, Tasigur, or Become Immense when used proactively. When it is not useful it cantrips, and it is an easy side out in such matches, making room for more applicable cards.
I think Relic is a part of the reason the deck is so good, and in my opinion it is a mistake to see it simply as a Strangler enabler. Instead, I see it as one of the deck's many lines of attack. It's not useful in every matchup; but then no card is, like say creature removal vs. Lantern, or nonbasics vs. Blood Moon decks.
I try to keep the list in my sig updated as I make changes, so when I put up a new post, the link is accurate at that time. I sometimes include the list in a post here, like I did on my first post after I ended my experimentwith colorless Stompy. I would like Damnation back, but I traded mine away, so right now I have Languish, which is better against Selfless Spirit but worse against Bant Eldrazi.
Deadrift do you feel Relic still has a Place in your current deck with only Strangler as a processor and having other Exile effects? It gives you a card when you crack it sure but which other reason do you have for keeping it in? Just curious to the why..
I still think Relic is a key part of this deck, especially in a meta with a lot of Dredge.
Strangler is amazing in an aggro meta because if it can process it is almost certainly going to be a 2-for-1, and value is what midrange decks are all about. All the potential exile effects have a downside: Path ramps the opponent, Sculler is mana-greedy and often returns its card when it dies (which it does to almost everything), Unmaking costs 3 CMC and 3 life, Declaration in Stone is sorcery speed and gives card(s) to the opponent, Oblivion Ring is 3 CMC and sorcery speed, and Relic needs graveyard fodder. Of these, Relic is the least painful option.
Just as important, Relic is great pre-boarding against any deck with Snapcaster or Goyf, or Eternal Witness or Kitchen Finks or Scavenging Ooze or Reveillark etc. Clearly it is good against graveyard decks like Dredge, Living End, and Storm. It can keep opponents off Delirium, Tasigur, or Become Immense when used proactively. When it is not useful it cantrips, and it is an easy side out in such matches, making room for more applicable cards.
I think Relic is a part of the reason the deck is so good, and in my opinion it is a mistake to see it simply as a Strangler enabler. Instead, I see it as one of the deck's many lines of attack. It's not useful in every matchup; but then no card is, like say creature removal vs. Lantern, or nonbasics vs. Blood Moon decks.
Thanks, that was the reply I was hoping for. I was also thinking later on, that Relic (besides Path/Sculler) is the only early enabler for Strangler's processing, as TKS and Anguished are on same/higher CMC, so that makes Relic a good choice. Cheers.
Marsh Flats is really a card you would want to have as you can fetch both of your required colors with 1 fetch. Flooded Strand only gives you your white and Polluted only your black so that may put you in awkward situations, e.g. you start with Plains and 2 Flooded, and you have IoK/TS in hand. Is selling/trading Flooded/Polluted an option to get you your Marsh Flats? I doubt you can play it decent without them. Also have a look at Concealed Courtyard.
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I won't go into detail here, because it was 3 Midrange MU's in a row, so nothing really super-interesting here.
I won the grind every time, simple as that.
tidehollow sculler did his thing and was likely ok.
Even teh Mana requirements were good, i had no problems casting him.
thraben inspector has been good too, so i'll stick to it.
Sideboarding is a bit weird. That's something i need to figure out.
2 ratchet bomb
2 kataki, war's wage
2 kambal, consul of allocation
2 lost legacy
1 pithing needle
1 burrenton forge-tender
1 declaration in stone
2 rest in peace
1 wastes
Green @ it's best
I've tried to create a build that is more stompy-like wiht some utility and disruption.
Therefore i've cutted EVERY Card that doesn't impact the Boardstate.
This will even regard my Sideboard from now on.
teh following Cards will likely be in my next (updated) Sidebaord:
Green @ it's best
I would also prefer Zealous Persecution over Orzhov Pontiff as it costs less and combines both effects and the body you get is rather negligible anyway.
Fulminator Mage is good but can be rather difficult to cast reliably.
Secondly Tidehollow sculler is used for a few reasons. Primarily is his interaction with Eldrazi Displacer. If you "displace" him twice in a row, then you get a "free" exile from hand. Combine this with TKS then you are able to lock an opponents draws once you have 6 mana available (Eldrazi temple is gold here). This is an inevitability factor that cannot be avoided. Also in this situation when they draw a land, you get to further remove more of what little they have left in their hand.
Has anyone tried a B/G version of the deck ?
I'm in process of trying different color combinations and having access to Ancient Stirrings and Abrupt Decay seems very good.
Here is my idea:
4x Dryad Militant
4x Wasteland Strangler
4x Eternal Scourge
3x Matter Reshaper
4x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Reality Smasher
2x Blight Herder
Artifact (4)
4x Relic of Progenitus
Sorcery (4)
4x Ancient Stirrings
Instant (4)
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Dismember
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Eldrazi Temple
4x Llanowar Wastes
2x Ghost Quarter
1x Sea Gate Wreckage
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Forest
1x Swamp
4x Thoughtseize
2x Ratchet Bomb
4x Endbringer
2x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Dismember
Dryad Militant is both decent as early pressure and provides more fodder for proccessing.
What do you think ?
3 Eternal Scourge
4 Reality Smasher
3 Shriekmaw
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Wall of Omens
4 Wasteland Strangler
4 Path to Exile
4 Rest in Peace
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Godless Shrine
3 Plains
4 Shambling Vent
1 Swamp
2 Vault of the Archangel
1 Wastes
2 Disenchant
2 Distended Mindbender
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Pithing Needle
2 Stony Silence
2 Zealous Persecution
I swapped out the Militant for Scavenging Ooze and Decay for Go For the Throat (I don't own any decays). I'm only on initial testing, but it's surprisingly solid. It plays closer to Bant Eldrazi than BW. Might want to consider some Noble Hierarch or Birds of Paradise for Bant's speed.
Of course, if we do that, why not just go Bant Eldrazi at that point? I think the discard of black makes it worthwhile. Discard alone makes the deck feel more proactive. Plus we can experiment with Lilianas (both LOTV and LLH). And collective brutality is still a beating for burn and infect.
The scry ability can be useful and the 2 bodies as well.
UBR Grixis Death's shadow
vs. Suicide Zoo: 1-2 (0-1)
Lost G1 on the draw to a T3 combo... nuff said. G2 I got there with disruption and Lingering Souls. In G3 he kept a shaky hand with lots of answers and ripped my hand of removal apart with lots of Thoughtseizes and Inquisitions. I misplayed here and gave him delirium by leaving him a Traverse the Ulvenwald and removing Become Immense, which allowed him to search for a Death's Shadow that eventually killed me.
vs. Bushwhacker Zoo: 2-0 (1-1)
Wasteland Strangler was huge here as a 2-for-1 removing and trading with his threats. Collective Brutality was also very good. Soren closed G2 with Spirit tokens to put the match out of reach.
vs. BG home-brew: 2-0 (2-1)
This guy had a pile of jank with some life-linking vampires, Lightning Greaves, Rancor, and Managorger Hydra. It was not close.
vs. Lantern Control: 2-0 (3-1)
I mulled to 6 on the play G1 and was rewarded with an opener of Thoughtseize, TKS, Swamp, Temple, Plains, and Lingering Souls... OK, I'll keep this! I took his Thoughtseize on T1 and then his Bridge on T3, which he was not able to recover from. In G2 I mulled an opening 7 that had Stony Silence and the means to cast it, but no way to quickly pressure him or remove a Bridge. He did drop a Bridge on T3, but I was able to Unmake it and then drop two Smashers for a quick end to the match. Very lucky draws made a potentially very tough match feel like a bye. Both Stony Silence and Ratchet Bomb are good in this match, but not together... Nonetheless I bring both of them in here. Kataki has his strengths, doesn't he.
vs. EldraziTron: 2-1 (4-1)
I got the draw. In G1 I watched him natural Tron, and then drop a... Matter Reshaper. I myself played TKS on my T3, taking his Kozilek. Things looked good until he shut me down with Chalice on 4 (!) and then drew into a couple of Smashers. But in G2 and 3 I was simply faster. Hand disruption from Thoughtseize and TKS was crucial in this match,a s was ramp from Temple. This guy is the ex-head judge for this shop and is a great player, but it came down to who drew better, and in this case that was me.
Thoughts: Well the key to my success tonight was all about Temple into Seer or Smasher. Pretty basic really, though the same could be said of really any Eldrazi deck. Souls was handy throughout the night, and Thoughtseize allowed me to take my opponents' Seers and Become Immense's, when Inquisition would have been dead. I continue to strongly favor Mind Stone as a T3 Seer or Smasher enabler, and it also turns on a T4 4x Spirits Lingering Souls play, which is very good and allows me to dodge Surgical Extraction one turn earlier, when that card is being played against me. My build definitely gains some game from having a bunch of cards that cantrip (Relic, Stone, Reshaper), even though lately I have not run Sea Gate Wreckage since I am back to 3x Ghost Quarter.
When i lost, i lost to my Deck.
Tidehollow Sculler was janky as hell and gets the axe.
I streamlined my build today and will keep you updated 'bout teh results.
Green @ it's best
GXTronGX
RWxBurnRWx
UBR Grixis Death's shadow
Strangler is amazing in an aggro meta because if it can process it is almost certainly going to be a 2-for-1, and value is what midrange decks are all about. All the potential exile effects have a downside: Path ramps the opponent, Sculler is mana-greedy and often returns its card when it dies (which it does to almost everything), Unmaking costs 3 CMC and 3 life, Declaration in Stone is sorcery speed and gives card(s) to the opponent, Oblivion Ring is 3 CMC and sorcery speed, and Relic needs graveyard fodder. Of these, Relic is the least painful option.
Just as important, Relic is great pre-boarding against any deck with Snapcaster or Goyf, or Eternal Witness or Kitchen Finks or Scavenging Ooze or Reveillark etc. Clearly it is good against graveyard decks like Dredge, Living End, and Storm. It can keep opponents off Delirium, Tasigur, or Become Immense when used proactively. When it is not useful it cantrips, and it is an easy side out in such matches, making room for more applicable cards.
I think Relic is a part of the reason the deck is so good, and in my opinion it is a mistake to see it simply as a Strangler enabler. Instead, I see it as one of the deck's many lines of attack. It's not useful in every matchup; but then no card is, like say creature removal vs. Lantern, or nonbasics vs. Blood Moon decks.
i'm still struggling wiht my Manabase.
I got only Khans Fetchlands and not willing to pay for Marsh Flats.
Here's what i came up wiht so far:
2 polluted delta
2 swamp
1 plains
3 shambling vent
2 godless shrine
4 caves of koilos
4 eldrazi temple
1 sea gate wreckage
1 vault of the archangel
2 ghost quarter
ANy suggestions for improvements?
Green @ it's best