Here is a no-banlist version I threw together, afterwards I realized that I overlooked Anguished Unmaking since the lists I was looking at were all from before the SOI release because of the Eye ban. Should I try to make room for a copy or two in the 75?
I'm sorry to say that I feel like I have no real insight into what a no-ban meta would demand from a deck. I kinda feel like this build probably isn't the deck for such a meta, but I agree that SFM and Batterskull seem good. Cloudpost and a Mono-C build seem like they might be better, though.
a few questions for the tron match. Wouldn't eternal scourge be a very good play against it, since karn's +4 lets you place it in exile easily from hane If he -3 to kill it, then okay value all the way. I know he will be a bolt outlet, but at the same time, he is a 3/3 that has to be dealt with and is a good mana sink along with souls to clog up the board. It might also give us another reason to look at condiut of ruin for the 75 as well.
Scourge could be good against Karn, and like Strangler or Reshaper he hits for 3 starting T3, which is good. He also survives Pyroclasm and Kozilek's return, which isn't terrible. But my 3 power creatures normally do not factor significantly in this matchup; the best line is usually hate, disruption, and a faster clock from TKS, Smasher, and even Blight Herder.
alright, after obtaining a bunch of needed stuff from a trade, I went ahead and revamped the deck. I am going for a more controlling route with the deck but I am always interested in feedback. I will also playtest it tomorrow night and will provide feedback from that too.
alright, after obtaining a bunch of needed stuff from a trade, I went ahead and revamped the deck. I am going for a more controlling route with the deck but I am always interested in feedback. I will also playtest it tomorrow night and will provide feedback from that too.
Interesting list. I would cut the two ratchet bombs for some Inquisition of Kozilek, I found that the sweet spot for BW decks is to run 6 discard spells. You will also want to change up your mana base a bit. You need at least 14 untapped B sources and 12 W sources to have a 90% chance to cast thoughtseize on turn 1 or lingering souls on turn 3. I would also cut the surgical extractions in favor of anguished unmaking. Anguished unmaking is great, it hits annoying things like ensnaring bridge and planeswalkers.
... Scourge could be good against Karn, and like Strangler or Reshaper he hits for 3 starting T3, which is good. He also survives Pyroclasm and Kozilek's return, which isn't terrible. But my 3 power creatures normally do not factor significantly in this matchup; the best line is usually hate, disruption, and a faster clock from TKS, Smasher, and even Blight Herder.
It sounds to me like it is great against tron. It provides a clock and survives their sweepers except for oblivion stone. Karn can only take care of one threat, and I am sure that your opponent will target something other than eternal scourge since thought-knot or reality smasher is a faster clock. To beat tron you need to apply pressure first, then tempo second. You need to make sure that you do not hinder your clock when you disrupt them. If you play a controlling game the first 3 turns while not applying any pressure, you will most likely loose. Their deck was built to dominate midrange decks from turn 4 on; therefore, you need to apply enough pressure in order to kill them by turn 4 or slow them down while applying pressure. Disrupting their manabase is very tricky and often a trap since ghost quarter slows you down by a turn while they can easily fetch a replacement land.
Thanks for the tournament reports deaddrift, I've only been able to play every other week or so recently so I am playing mtg vicariously through you (and some streamers).
alright, after obtaining a bunch of needed stuff from a trade, I went ahead and revamped the deck. I am going for a more controlling route with the deck but I am always interested in feedback. I will also playtest it tomorrow night and will provide feedback from that too.
Interesting list. I would cut the two ratchet bombs for some Inquisition of Kozilek, I found that the sweet spot for BW decks is to run 6 discard spells. You will also want to change up your mana base a bit. You need at least 14 untapped B sources and 12 W sources to have a 90% chance to cast thoughtseize on turn 1 or lingering souls on turn 3. I would also cut the surgical extractions in favor of anguished unmaking. Anguished unmaking is great, it hits annoying things like ensnaring bridge and planeswalkers.
... Scourge could be good against Karn, and like Strangler or Reshaper he hits for 3 starting T3, which is good. He also survives Pyroclasm and Kozilek's return, which isn't terrible. But my 3 power creatures normally do not factor significantly in this matchup; the best line is usually hate, disruption, and a faster clock from TKS, Smasher, and even Blight Herder.
It sounds to me like it is great against tron. It provides a clock and survives their sweepers except for oblivion stone. Karn can only take care of one threat, and I am sure that your opponent will target something other than eternal scourge since thought-knot or reality smasher is a faster clock. To beat tron you need to apply pressure first, then tempo second. You need to make sure that you do not hinder your clock when you disrupt them. If you play a controlling game the first 3 turns while not applying any pressure, you will most likely loose. Their deck was built to dominate midrange decks from turn 4 on; therefore, you need to apply enough pressure in order to kill them by turn 4 or slow them down while applying pressure. Disrupting their manabase is very tricky and often a trap since ghost quarter slows you down by a turn while they can easily fetch a replacement land.
Thanks for the tournament reports deaddrift, I've only been able to play every other week or so recently so I am playing mtg vicariously through you (and some streamers).
Ya I am trying to see if there is a possible way to mana lock several of the comb decks out there. But I am trying to figure out a good way to include a few more colored mana sources in my deck as well. If I dump the ghost quarter lock plan, I might go the route of shambling vents in that manner.
For tron, I normally let them get tron, but attack key pieces of there assault (like TKS a Karn or a wurmcoil) It usually keeps em off kilter enough to have at least a 50/50 rate against them if you play aggressively
Here is a no-banlist version I threw together, afterwards I realized that I overlooked Anguished Unmaking since the lists I was looking at were all from before the SOI release because of the Eye ban. Should I try to make room for a copy or two in the 75?
I'm sorry to say that I feel like I have no real insight into what a no-ban meta would demand from a deck. I kinda feel like this build probably isn't the deck for such a meta, but I agree that SFM and Batterskull seem good. Cloudpost and a Mono-C build seem like they might be better, though.
I agree that it isn't the strongest, but since I've just come back to the game starting with no collection/cards in Dec/Jan, this is my only complete modern deck (R/G tron is getting there). I'm just trying to take the deck I use and optimize it with banlist cards even if it's not the best deck there. And I did manage to get 4th out of 25 the last time they ran the no banlist (in March/April) with the processors deck (Eye wasn't banned yet) and adding in two Sensei's. I think the fact that many people are just going to the no banlist to mess around with OP decks/cards and have fun, while I'm piloting the deck I've played for months, gives me a slight edge and might be enough to top 8 again. I am really looking forward to cheating out Batterskull though, it's gonna be sweet. The list I linked is basically going all-in on getting those OP sol lands out and spamming the board with Eldrazi, I may even aggressively mulligan to get a strong ramp opening.
Seeing as you and I have pretty similar creature/spells in our main 60, where would you suggest I trim a card to make room for a single Eternal Scourge. I managed to trade for a foil one pre-release weekend and I definitely want to give it a shot this Saturday at the weekly modern tournie. I really cannot decide what would go, obviously I love Batterskull too much even though it's a high cost card that might be the best to get taken out for scourge, and the other 3-drop creatures I am hesitant to trim (Reshaper has been kicking some ass, really like it). Also, I definitely agree that Surgical's have maybe been overvalued by us for the S.B, and I'm strongly considering just going with a 1-of from here on out. I really think the comboing GQ or discard with S.E. is a tempo loss we have been overlooking. Cards that I'm considering replacing the open S.B. slot with are: Collective Brutality and/or Blessed Alliance. I'm a big fan of Brutality and I can see it doing serious work against blue decks (instants/sorc and snapcaster), burn/zoo, maybe even jund for scooze/bob/kolgan's command/etc. I think Brutality might deserve up to two spots in the 75, maybe 1 main and 1 side? I've been seriously considering going back up to 5 discards in the main 60 for a while and maybe this fits that role.
I'm not necessarily big on Blessed Alliance, my initial thoughts are Rest for the Weary is muuuuch better against both burn and aggro because a turn 2 heal for 8 is big. But the flexibility for Alliance has some value, and drawing alliance on turn 4+ might be a lot better than Rest on turn 4+.
I think the debate between Ratchet bomb/Engineer Exp. in the sideboard comes down to personal preference. For me, I see two anguished as enough of an answer for planeswalkers and Blood moon that I don't think Ratchet bomb is necessary (I also have seen a blood moon played against me once in the past 6 months). I think that the fact that R.B. can tick up to 3 whereas E.E. cannot with this deck (perhaps gemstone caverns to remedy that along with Eternal Scourge, not necessarily planning on that OP turn 1 combo but when it happens it would be sick) isn't too important because unless you have R.B. turn 1 or 2 to play, you will likely not be able to answer CC=3 perms before you are way behind. I like E.E for the obvious reason that you can have 1 or 2 charges AND blow it up on the same turn you play it, and I would side it in against decks where I'm trying to slow down their aggro asap. Basically I see E.E as a better answer to decks that give us issues more often (read: aggro).
Edit: Forgot to mention something on Brutality. The synergy with Lingering Souls is really good and a big reason I think it may deserve a spot in three main and/or side.
Here is my attempt at a list w/ EMN cards. I am currently considering dropping the two Mind Stones for +1 Matter Reshaper and +1 Wasteland Strangler. The idea behind this is it would decrease the consistency that TKS and Smasher are ramped out, but increase the overall consistency of having Eldrazi on the board earlier in the game. Another pro is adding more CMC 3 creatures benefits the Matter Reshaper(s) in the deck, but maybe I am overlooking the cantrip late game with Mind Stone. Alternatively, maybe the Mind Stones stay and I cut Go for the Throat for either a Reshaper or Strangler. Anyone have thoughts on either of those?
I am also going to be trying out the double Sorin because that +1 is just soooo good
I do love Sorin's +1 a lot, and maybe if I did add more CMC 3 creatures a second one would be decent. More CMC 3 cratures means more creatures on the board when you cast Sorin on T4. Imagine an opening with a ramped CMC 3 Eldrazi on T2, lingering souls on T3, and Sorin +1 on T4. That's pretty sick. However if I stay with Mind Stones and the plan to get TKS/Smasher out asap, I would not get a second Sorin because it would not have as many creatures out to make use of it and Sorin would compete with the big eldrazi for being played in T4.
I see some of your lists trimming down from 4 Path to Exile and/or Lingering Souls and I strongly recommend against that. These are two of the best cards white has in modern and pretty much the reason this deck runs white as one of its colors. I think 4-ofs of these cards are necessary for consistency, and it is better to trim them during sideboarding rather than trimming them from the main entirely.
It's not a huge force in the meta, but beware of decks running Ensnaring Bridge. (Lantern Control and 8 Rack for the most part)
If it resolves you pretty much have no way to win.
Be sure you try and run at least 1 maindeck answer, in my deck I run 2x Oblivion Ring with 2x Sea Gate Wreckage to try and draw into them.
Early testing today, but I drew 4 cards with Wreckage during the course of a long game. The card is really an all star.
Deaddrift had tried using Oblivion Ring rather than Anguished Unmaking because of AU's lifeloss, and after playtesting found that Oblivion Ring was answered too often and the loss from AU is worth the permanent exile. I totally agree with that conclusion and I think that even with your budget verison of the deck, AU's are less than $2 each and deserve a slot, probably two in the 75 as you often see.
I am LOVING Eternal Scourge so far. I run 3 right now. It's the perfect reoccurring threat that just won't go away, the only way to get rid of him that I can think of is through combat damage to send him into the graveyard which can be fixed with Relic or tucking him which isn't really used in Modern. He's quickly becoming my favorite 3 drop since he comes back if he dies unlike displacer, doesn't require a setup like strangler and doesn't whiff Matter Reshaper.
Some stupid and impracticable, but amusing tricks:
You can even path him yourself if you're mana screwed and bring him back.
Use Surgical Extraction on one in the graveyard to exile every copy you have then flash them all back.
Deaddrift had tried using Oblivion Ring rather than Anguished Unmaking because of AU's lifeloss, and after playtesting found that Oblivion Ring was answered too often and the loss from AU is worth the permanent exile. I totally agree with that conclusion and I think that even with your budget verison of the deck, AU's are less than $2 each and deserve a slot, probably two in the 75 as you often see.
My choice of Oblivion Ring over Anguished Unmaking isn't a budget decision, it's a meta call as I have some very aggressive decks in my group.
Right now as it stands I'm already getting really low on life before stabilizing (this deck does a lot of damage to itself), so the 3 life possibly twice over the game could be really bad. I also run 6 processors main deck along with a way to blink 4 of them in the 7th slot, and also most decks do not run enchantment hate pre board so the possible removal of the ring isn't a huge factor for me. You can see that in my build with my 4x Tidehollow Sculler which operates similarly.
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I am also liking eternal scourge. I am even going to play additional relic effects (scrabbling claws) to make sure it is a recurrig threat or chumper
Distended Mindbender was ok. Never really drew him and when I did I sometimes didn't have a creature to sac or double black. Definitely better in heartless version - not so much here
Here is my attempt at a list w/ EMN cards. I am currently considering dropping the two Mind Stones for +1 Matter Reshaper and +1 Wasteland Strangler. The idea behind this is it would decrease the consistency that TKS and Smasher are ramped out, but increase the overall consistency of having Eldrazi on the board earlier in the game. Another pro is adding more CMC 3 creatures benefits the Matter Reshaper(s) in the deck, but maybe I am overlooking the cantrip late game with Mind Stone. Alternatively, maybe the Mind Stones stay and I cut Go for the Throat for either a Reshaper or Strangler. Anyone have thoughts on either of those?
I am also going to be trying out the double Sorin because that +1 is just soooo good
I do love Sorin's +1 a lot, and maybe if I did add more CMC 3 creatures a second one would be decent. More CMC 3 cratures means more creatures on the board when you cast Sorin on T4. Imagine an opening with a ramped CMC 3 Eldrazi on T2, lingering souls on T3, and Sorin +1 on T4. That's pretty sick. However if I stay with Mind Stones and the plan to get TKS/Smasher out asap, I would not get a second Sorin because it would not have as many creatures out to make use of it and Sorin would compete with the big eldrazi for being played in T4.
I see some of your lists trimming down from 4 Path to Exile and/or Lingering Souls and I strongly recommend against that. These are two of the best cards white has in modern and pretty much the reason this deck runs white as one of its colors. I think 4-ofs of these cards are necessary for consistency, and it is better to trim them during sideboarding rather than trimming them from the main entirely.
It's not a huge force in the meta, but beware of decks running Ensnaring Bridge. (Lantern Control and 8 Rack for the most part)
If it resolves you pretty much have no way to win.
Be sure you try and run at least 1 maindeck answer, in my deck I run 2x Oblivion Ring with 2x Sea Gate Wreckage to try and draw into them.
Early testing today, but I drew 4 cards with Wreckage during the course of a long game. The card is really an all star.
Deaddrift had tried using Oblivion Ring rather than Anguished Unmaking because of AU's lifeloss, and after playtesting found that Oblivion Ring was answered too often and the loss from AU is worth the permanent exile. I totally agree with that conclusion and I think that even with your budget verison of the deck, AU's are less than $2 each and deserve a slot, probably two in the 75 as you often see.
Mind stone is in there to smooth out the colorless mana, provide a turn 2 play and mana ramp, draw a card in the late to mid game, and, most importantly, to protect against blood moon. Blood moon is one of the best cards against BWC decks, which is why we run marsh flats and mind stone. If they ever print some way to fetch fetchable colorless lands (excluding evolving wilds and the like) we could probably cut them.
I haven't thought about the manabase distrubtion for this deck, so I don't know how many utility lands we should run. But I am glad that sea gate wreckage is preforming well for you. I tried it awhile back and found that it was great turn 6 and beyond but didn't do anything for me before that. Plus it was just dead in some matchups (such as scapeshift), since I could not empty my hand before they killed me. Modern usually is a pretty fast format so I cut it. I think that mutavault would be better.
I really like sorin as a 1-of. It doesn't really do much when we are behind but he is great at resolving stalemates and saving our butts through life-link if we have a board presence. I feel that he pushes us over the edge in the match, but we need a board presence for him to do that.
I am LOVING Eternal Scourge so far. I run 3 right now. It's the perfect reoccurring threat that just won't go away, the only way to get rid of him that I can think of is through combat damage to send him into the graveyard which can be fixed with Relic or tucking him which isn't really used in Modern. He's quickly becoming my favorite 3 drop since he comes back if he dies unlike displacer, doesn't require a setup like strangler and doesn't whiff Matter Reshaper.
Some stupid and impracticable, but amusing tricks:
You can even path him yourself if you're mana screwed and bring him back.
Use Surgical Extraction on one in the graveyard to exile every copy you have then flash them all back.
I am also liking eternal scourge. I am even going to play additional relic effects (scrabbling claws) to make sure it is a recurrig threat or chumper
Distended Mindbender was ok. Never really drew him and when I did I sometimes didn't have a creature to sac or double black
Definitely better in heartless lves ion - not so much here
That is awesome that eternal scourge is testing well. I don't think that we should get too crazy and run more exile effects since it would dilute our threat density. My cards are still in the mail, so I haven't tested them out yet. That and the release for MTGO is next weekend...
Why does nobody run disenchant in their sideboard anymore? The card is amazing and better than anguished unmaking most of the time. Why not run both???
Between 4 relics and an extraction I don't really want anymore exile effects. I do want to experiment with extracting every scourge and playing them but it's not something I'd shift my deck to just yet.
I have a philosophy about the deck where I try to maximize my card utility by having cards that serve multiple roles, cards that answer all game state situations, and cards that cover for each other with overlaps or redundancy. The tradeoff I make for this tends to be either tempo, or life total. I have been unable to cast Unmaking due to low life totals on several occasions, and I have lost because I got Bomb on turn five instead of turn 1-3, so this choice is, of course, not without its tradeoffs.
For instance, 2x Ratchet Bomb plus 2x Anguished Unmaking plus 2x Damnation (in the whole 75) mean I have 4 sweepers, 4 artifact/enchantment hate, and 4 planeswalker hate. This way, I don't have to worry about making room for Disenchant, which is better for the cards it answers, but misses walkers and creatures. Nor do I need to find room for any Celestial Purges. Engineered Explosives is a much better sweeper, but it is much worse as an answer for artifacts, enchantments, and planeswalkers. 4x Thoughtseize means I can take anything I need to take when I cast it; I've lost to Scapeshift and Elspeth before, for instance, after missing with an Inquisition. Unmaking and Thoughtseize cost life for universal applicability, while Bomb and Damnation cost tempo. Nonetheless, using these cards means I have answers for more game states, so to me it seems like the right call.
Earlier, I described how my 75 covers for mana sources under Blood Moon. Further examples of this philosophy in action: 3x Strangler means I can afford to cut my targeted removal to 4x Path plus 1x each of Go for the Throat and Unmaking, yet still have enough removal to (usually) get it when I need it. 3x Extraction in the board means I can still get processing fodder into exile even when I side out the Relics, for instance when I bring in Stony Silence. Extraction also kills Tron and combo decks IF (big if) I can get the necessary card into the graveyard.
I have come to the conclusion that the reason the deck is strong because of these interactions. When I think about cards for the deck, I think about how many roles they could play for me. The land package is a great example of this: It gives me mana to cast spells, but a full third of it (8/24 lands) also provides utility for messing up my opponent's game. My creatures beat face, but they also kill other creatures directly when they land, or take a card from hand, or turn off or otherwise mitigate my opponent's removal spells. Mind Stone gives mana but also can be a new card when needed. Relics attack my opponent's yard, fuel processing, and of course they too can be a different card when needed. Path is great removal, but also powers processing. Thought-Knot Seer disrupts and also powers processing. Unmaking is removal that powers processing. Souls chumps like nobody's business but it also pushes damage through, playing both offense and defense like a champ. And on and on. This multipurpose functionality is especially important because our deck is slow and largely reactive.
The pain we feel when we cast Herder or Strangler without processing targets, or cast Displacer into a Bolt, is because we didn't get the value the deck relies on as a key aspect of its game plan. If we are going to run a single-function card, it should--like Thoughtseize--be so good that its single function is worth the lost versatility.
In my opinion.
I could see a few of the new cards from Eldritch Moon being good, but they have an awfully high bar to clear to prove either A) they have broad, multipurpose functionality or B) their extremely high power offsets their narrowness.
As always, just my two cents. And my final two cents is this: for Heaven's sake, run four Paths and four Lingering Souls! There is no way that a 4th Path or a 4th Lingering Souls are down around the 59-60th best cards in your list. Something else would be a better cut.
Lingering Souls
Relic
Thought-Knot
Path
I'd say run 4 of these or you're not playing Processors.
Continuing my evaluation of Scourge, I honestly might bring it up to 4 of. Even if it doesn't become a staple like the above cards I think it's a pretty broken card. In our shell it's probably the best reoccurring creature we could ask for. Time will tell.
I had 2 flex spots with a Matter Reshaper and Displacer. I also took out Whip which probably would be a second copy of Sorin if I had it, but they served the same function. I miss the lifegain a bit, but the sideboard can be used to deal with that (Which is a WIP).
deaddrift, I used your list at a 68-player PPTQ this weekend with some slight changes (1 Inquisition for Thoughtseize because sitting down to register my friend said there was quite a bit of burn (there wasn't), 1 Eternal Scourge for Matter Reshaper after people were saying good things about early testing, 2 Wraths for 2 Damnations because I don't own any).
Unfortunately I got paired with GR Tron in round one. I made a bad mistake in game one because I did not think he had mana up for O-Stone so I played a second Reality Smasher to go for lethal, but I missed an untapped land and got wrecked. Got a quick win in game 2, but mulled to 5 in game 3 and lost easily.
Round 2, I got a quick win 2-1 win against Jeskai Nahiri. Turn 2 Thought-Knot into turn 3 Reality Smasher for game 1. I got stuck on two lands with a Spreading Seas on one in game 2. Game 3, I got an early Thought-Knot. He Clique'd away my Reality Smasher, but I consecutively drew Blight Herder, Blight Herder, Reality Smasher to overwhelm his back-to-back Nahiri's and kill him.
Round 3 was against Uw Merfolk. He was able to build up his board in game 1 and then play Spreading Seas to push through lethal. Game 2 was very stalled, with me leaving up 2 Ghost Quarters to fend off 2 Mutavaults and the threat of Spreading Seas. I played a couple of defensive Reality Smashers, then a Blight Herder with tokens, and finally drew Sorin to swing the race. Game 3 I was mauled by a triple lord draw with Aether Vial on turn 1 as well. That dropped me to 1-2.
Round 4 was against Grixis Delver. I got turn 2 Thought-Knot, exiling Remand. He got turn 3 Gurmag Angler, which I Pathed, and I was able to beat down for the win. Game 2, he played Delvers on turns 1 and 2. I played the Eternal Scourge. It got some damage in, along with him taking some pain from his mana base. He revealed Kolaghan's Command to flip the Delvers. I Pathed one of them and he chose to get the land and shuffle away the command. He attacked for 3 that turn, but decided to trade the Insectile Aberration with Eternal Scourge the next turn. He countered both halves of Lingering Souls, but I drew a second copy and the four spirits finished him off. 2-2
Game 4 was Jeskai Nahiri again. He scooped to a turn 3 Reality Smasher game 1. Game 2, he kept a sketchy 1 land hand with Celestial Colonnade. I Thoughtseized away a Path, leaving 2 Bolts, another Path, a Snapcaster, and Timely Reinforcements. Then I Ghost Quartered the Colonnade to make him choose white or red. He got a plains. I played Thought-Knot the next turn which took the Snapcaster and ate the Path. I followed that up with Reality Smasher and 4 spirits to secure the win. 3-2
Round 6 was against Living End with Kiki/Exarch combo. He was not happy to see main deck Relic of Progenitus (2 in my opening 7). Smashers did the bulk of the work to win both games. I probably was overzealous in game 2, using Surgical Extractions on his turn 1 cycled Deadshot Minotaur and turn 3 Fulminator Mage, instead of waiting to get a Living End, but it worked out ok. 4-2
Round 7 was against Elves. I got an early Thought-Knot to take one of her two copies of Collected Company in hand, but she actually drew the other two as well and overwhelmed me. Game 2, I had to mull to 5, couldn't find Wrath, and Lingering Souls didn't help against Ezuri's pump. 4-3 final record.
I really enjoyed the deck. It crushed the deck I wanted to beat (Jeskai). I expected quite a bit of Jund too, which there was. I just didn't run into it. I am definitely planning on running the deck again at other upcoming PPTQs and possibly GP Indianapolis.
Also if you are interested, the Top 8 archetypes were 2 GR Tron, 1 Burn, 1 Lantern Control, 1 Bogles, 1 Abzan, 1 Ad Nauseam, and 1 Living End.
Quarters: Abzan>Ad Nauseam, Burn>Tron, Tron>Living End, Lantern>Bogles.
Semis: Burn>Tron, Lantern>Abzan.
Finals: Burn>Lantern.
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I'm sorry to say that I feel like I have no real insight into what a no-ban meta would demand from a deck. I kinda feel like this build probably isn't the deck for such a meta, but I agree that SFM and Batterskull seem good. Cloudpost and a Mono-C build seem like they might be better, though.
Scourge could be good against Karn, and like Strangler or Reshaper he hits for 3 starting T3, which is good. He also survives Pyroclasm and Kozilek's return, which isn't terrible. But my 3 power creatures normally do not factor significantly in this matchup; the best line is usually hate, disruption, and a faster clock from TKS, Smasher, and even Blight Herder.
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 matter reshaper
4 thought-knot seer
3 blight herder
3 reality smasher
artifacts
4 relic of proginitus
2 ratchet bomb
sorceries and instants
3 path to exile
4 thoughtseize
2 surgical extraction
3 lingering souls
2 sorin, solemn visitor
land
1 plains
1 wastes
1 swamp
1 vault of the archangel
1 bojuka bog
1 cavern of souls
2 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4 godless shrine
4 ghost quarter
4 caves of coilos
4 eldrazi temple
1 ratchet bomb
1 path to exile
2 anguished unmaking
1 wasteland strangler
3 duress
2 dismember
1 vendetta
2 day of judgement
1 crucible of worlds
1 pithing needle
Interesting list. I would cut the two ratchet bombs for some Inquisition of Kozilek, I found that the sweet spot for BW decks is to run 6 discard spells. You will also want to change up your mana base a bit. You need at least 14 untapped B sources and 12 W sources to have a 90% chance to cast thoughtseize on turn 1 or lingering souls on turn 3. I would also cut the surgical extractions in favor of anguished unmaking. Anguished unmaking is great, it hits annoying things like ensnaring bridge and planeswalkers.
It sounds to me like it is great against tron. It provides a clock and survives their sweepers except for oblivion stone. Karn can only take care of one threat, and I am sure that your opponent will target something other than eternal scourge since thought-knot or reality smasher is a faster clock. To beat tron you need to apply pressure first, then tempo second. You need to make sure that you do not hinder your clock when you disrupt them. If you play a controlling game the first 3 turns while not applying any pressure, you will most likely loose. Their deck was built to dominate midrange decks from turn 4 on; therefore, you need to apply enough pressure in order to kill them by turn 4 or slow them down while applying pressure. Disrupting their manabase is very tricky and often a trap since ghost quarter slows you down by a turn while they can easily fetch a replacement land.
Our best cards in the matchup are:
I feel that eternal scourge, if it is mainboard worthy, will pull some weight against tron and that eldrazi mimic is one of our best sideboard cards.
I did some searching on the interwebs and I found an article that explains how to beat tron ( http://manadeprived.com/beating-rg-tron/ ) better than my previous comments here and here.
Thanks for the tournament reports deaddrift, I've only been able to play every other week or so recently so I am playing mtg vicariously through you (and some streamers).
CBW midrange deck
CBW eldrazi processor deck
CBW bw eldrazi shadow midrange
Ya I am trying to see if there is a possible way to mana lock several of the comb decks out there. But I am trying to figure out a good way to include a few more colored mana sources in my deck as well. If I dump the ghost quarter lock plan, I might go the route of shambling vents in that manner.
For tron, I normally let them get tron, but attack key pieces of there assault (like TKS a Karn or a wurmcoil) It usually keeps em off kilter enough to have at least a 50/50 rate against them if you play aggressively
CBW midrange deck
CBW eldrazi processor deck
CBW bw eldrazi shadow midrange
I agree that it isn't the strongest, but since I've just come back to the game starting with no collection/cards in Dec/Jan, this is my only complete modern deck (R/G tron is getting there). I'm just trying to take the deck I use and optimize it with banlist cards even if it's not the best deck there. And I did manage to get 4th out of 25 the last time they ran the no banlist (in March/April) with the processors deck (Eye wasn't banned yet) and adding in two Sensei's. I think the fact that many people are just going to the no banlist to mess around with OP decks/cards and have fun, while I'm piloting the deck I've played for months, gives me a slight edge and might be enough to top 8 again. I am really looking forward to cheating out Batterskull though, it's gonna be sweet. The list I linked is basically going all-in on getting those OP sol lands out and spamming the board with Eldrazi, I may even aggressively mulligan to get a strong ramp opening.
Seeing as you and I have pretty similar creature/spells in our main 60, where would you suggest I trim a card to make room for a single Eternal Scourge. I managed to trade for a foil one pre-release weekend and I definitely want to give it a shot this Saturday at the weekly modern tournie. I really cannot decide what would go, obviously I love Batterskull too much even though it's a high cost card that might be the best to get taken out for scourge, and the other 3-drop creatures I am hesitant to trim (Reshaper has been kicking some ass, really like it). Also, I definitely agree that Surgical's have maybe been overvalued by us for the S.B, and I'm strongly considering just going with a 1-of from here on out. I really think the comboing GQ or discard with S.E. is a tempo loss we have been overlooking. Cards that I'm considering replacing the open S.B. slot with are: Collective Brutality and/or Blessed Alliance. I'm a big fan of Brutality and I can see it doing serious work against blue decks (instants/sorc and snapcaster), burn/zoo, maybe even jund for scooze/bob/kolgan's command/etc. I think Brutality might deserve up to two spots in the 75, maybe 1 main and 1 side? I've been seriously considering going back up to 5 discards in the main 60 for a while and maybe this fits that role.
I'm not necessarily big on Blessed Alliance, my initial thoughts are Rest for the Weary is muuuuch better against both burn and aggro because a turn 2 heal for 8 is big. But the flexibility for Alliance has some value, and drawing alliance on turn 4+ might be a lot better than Rest on turn 4+.
I think the debate between Ratchet bomb/Engineer Exp. in the sideboard comes down to personal preference. For me, I see two anguished as enough of an answer for planeswalkers and Blood moon that I don't think Ratchet bomb is necessary (I also have seen a blood moon played against me once in the past 6 months). I think that the fact that R.B. can tick up to 3 whereas E.E. cannot with this deck (perhaps gemstone caverns to remedy that along with Eternal Scourge, not necessarily planning on that OP turn 1 combo but when it happens it would be sick) isn't too important because unless you have R.B. turn 1 or 2 to play, you will likely not be able to answer CC=3 perms before you are way behind. I like E.E for the obvious reason that you can have 1 or 2 charges AND blow it up on the same turn you play it, and I would side it in against decks where I'm trying to slow down their aggro asap. Basically I see E.E as a better answer to decks that give us issues more often (read: aggro).
Edit: Forgot to mention something on Brutality. The synergy with Lingering Souls is really good and a big reason I think it may deserve a spot in three main and/or side.
WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
RG G/R Tron GR
If it resolves you pretty much have no way to win.
Be sure you try and run at least 1 maindeck answer, in my deck I run 2x Oblivion Ring with 2x Sea Gate Wreckage to try and draw into them.
Early testing today, but I drew 4 cards with Wreckage during the course of a long game. The card is really an all star.
BUDGET DECK BUILDER SINCE 93'
Modern ------------------------- WU Azorius Titan Midrange
Commander ------------------- WUG Derevi, Empyrial Tactician
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I have 3 Anguished unmaking in the sideboard for those kind of annoying permanents
Yeah I am running 4 path. I think I will try a 3/3 Dismember/Lingering Souls split. No Eternal Scourge just yet.
I am also going to be trying out the double Sorin because that +1 is just soooo good
I do love Sorin's +1 a lot, and maybe if I did add more CMC 3 creatures a second one would be decent. More CMC 3 cratures means more creatures on the board when you cast Sorin on T4. Imagine an opening with a ramped CMC 3 Eldrazi on T2, lingering souls on T3, and Sorin +1 on T4. That's pretty sick. However if I stay with Mind Stones and the plan to get TKS/Smasher out asap, I would not get a second Sorin because it would not have as many creatures out to make use of it and Sorin would compete with the big eldrazi for being played in T4.
I see some of your lists trimming down from 4 Path to Exile and/or Lingering Souls and I strongly recommend against that. These are two of the best cards white has in modern and pretty much the reason this deck runs white as one of its colors. I think 4-ofs of these cards are necessary for consistency, and it is better to trim them during sideboarding rather than trimming them from the main entirely.
Deaddrift had tried using Oblivion Ring rather than Anguished Unmaking because of AU's lifeloss, and after playtesting found that Oblivion Ring was answered too often and the loss from AU is worth the permanent exile. I totally agree with that conclusion and I think that even with your budget verison of the deck, AU's are less than $2 each and deserve a slot, probably two in the 75 as you often see.
WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
RG G/R Tron GR
I'm very excited to see what this guy can do. It seems great vs the scapeshift matchup which I always dread
Some stupid and impracticable, but amusing tricks:
You can even path him yourself if you're mana screwed and bring him back.
Use Surgical Extraction on one in the graveyard to exile every copy you have then flash them all back.
My choice of Oblivion Ring over Anguished Unmaking isn't a budget decision, it's a meta call as I have some very aggressive decks in my group.
Right now as it stands I'm already getting really low on life before stabilizing (this deck does a lot of damage to itself), so the 3 life possibly twice over the game could be really bad. I also run 6 processors main deck along with a way to blink 4 of them in the 7th slot, and also most decks do not run enchantment hate pre board so the possible removal of the ring isn't a huge factor for me. You can see that in my build with my 4x Tidehollow Sculler which operates similarly.
BUDGET DECK BUILDER SINCE 93'
Modern ------------------------- WU Azorius Titan Midrange
Commander ------------------- WUG Derevi, Empyrial Tactician
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Distended Mindbender was ok. Never really drew him and when I did I sometimes didn't have a creature to sac or double black. Definitely better in heartless version - not so much here
Mind stone is in there to smooth out the colorless mana, provide a turn 2 play and mana ramp, draw a card in the late to mid game, and, most importantly, to protect against blood moon. Blood moon is one of the best cards against BWC decks, which is why we run marsh flats and mind stone. If they ever print some way to fetch fetchable colorless lands (excluding evolving wilds and the like) we could probably cut them.
I haven't thought about the manabase distrubtion for this deck, so I don't know how many utility lands we should run. But I am glad that sea gate wreckage is preforming well for you. I tried it awhile back and found that it was great turn 6 and beyond but didn't do anything for me before that. Plus it was just dead in some matchups (such as scapeshift), since I could not empty my hand before they killed me. Modern usually is a pretty fast format so I cut it. I think that mutavault would be better.
I really like sorin as a 1-of. It doesn't really do much when we are behind but he is great at resolving stalemates and saving our butts through life-link if we have a board presence. I feel that he pushes us over the edge in the match, but we need a board presence for him to do that.
That is awesome that eternal scourge is testing well. I don't think that we should get too crazy and run more exile effects since it would dilute our threat density. My cards are still in the mail, so I haven't tested them out yet. That and the release for MTGO is next weekend...
Why does nobody run disenchant in their sideboard anymore? The card is amazing and better than anguished unmaking most of the time. Why not run both???
CBW midrange deck
CBW eldrazi processor deck
CBW bw eldrazi shadow midrange
For instance, 2x Ratchet Bomb plus 2x Anguished Unmaking plus 2x Damnation (in the whole 75) mean I have 4 sweepers, 4 artifact/enchantment hate, and 4 planeswalker hate. This way, I don't have to worry about making room for Disenchant, which is better for the cards it answers, but misses walkers and creatures. Nor do I need to find room for any Celestial Purges. Engineered Explosives is a much better sweeper, but it is much worse as an answer for artifacts, enchantments, and planeswalkers. 4x Thoughtseize means I can take anything I need to take when I cast it; I've lost to Scapeshift and Elspeth before, for instance, after missing with an Inquisition. Unmaking and Thoughtseize cost life for universal applicability, while Bomb and Damnation cost tempo. Nonetheless, using these cards means I have answers for more game states, so to me it seems like the right call.
Earlier, I described how my 75 covers for mana sources under Blood Moon. Further examples of this philosophy in action: 3x Strangler means I can afford to cut my targeted removal to 4x Path plus 1x each of Go for the Throat and Unmaking, yet still have enough removal to (usually) get it when I need it. 3x Extraction in the board means I can still get processing fodder into exile even when I side out the Relics, for instance when I bring in Stony Silence. Extraction also kills Tron and combo decks IF (big if) I can get the necessary card into the graveyard.
I have come to the conclusion that the reason the deck is strong because of these interactions. When I think about cards for the deck, I think about how many roles they could play for me. The land package is a great example of this: It gives me mana to cast spells, but a full third of it (8/24 lands) also provides utility for messing up my opponent's game. My creatures beat face, but they also kill other creatures directly when they land, or take a card from hand, or turn off or otherwise mitigate my opponent's removal spells. Mind Stone gives mana but also can be a new card when needed. Relics attack my opponent's yard, fuel processing, and of course they too can be a different card when needed. Path is great removal, but also powers processing. Thought-Knot Seer disrupts and also powers processing. Unmaking is removal that powers processing. Souls chumps like nobody's business but it also pushes damage through, playing both offense and defense like a champ. And on and on. This multipurpose functionality is especially important because our deck is slow and largely reactive.
The pain we feel when we cast Herder or Strangler without processing targets, or cast Displacer into a Bolt, is because we didn't get the value the deck relies on as a key aspect of its game plan. If we are going to run a single-function card, it should--like Thoughtseize--be so good that its single function is worth the lost versatility.
In my opinion.
I could see a few of the new cards from Eldritch Moon being good, but they have an awfully high bar to clear to prove either A) they have broad, multipurpose functionality or B) their extremely high power offsets their narrowness.
As always, just my two cents. And my final two cents is this: for Heaven's sake, run four Paths and four Lingering Souls! There is no way that a 4th Path or a 4th Lingering Souls are down around the 59-60th best cards in your list. Something else would be a better cut.
Lingering Souls
Relic
Thought-Knot
Path
I'd say run 4 of these or you're not playing Processors.
Continuing my evaluation of Scourge, I honestly might bring it up to 4 of. Even if it doesn't become a staple like the above cards I think it's a pretty broken card. In our shell it's probably the best reoccurring creature we could ask for. Time will tell.
4 Relic of Progenitus
Creature (16)
2 Blight Herder
3 Eternal Scourge
3 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Wasteland Strangler
1 Oblivion Ring
Instant (5)
4 Path to Exile
1 Surgical Extraction
Planeswalker (1)
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Duress
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
2 Thoughtseize
I had 2 flex spots with a Matter Reshaper and Displacer. I also took out Whip which probably would be a second copy of Sorin if I had it, but they served the same function. I miss the lifegain a bit, but the sideboard can be used to deal with that (Which is a WIP).
Unfortunately I got paired with GR Tron in round one. I made a bad mistake in game one because I did not think he had mana up for O-Stone so I played a second Reality Smasher to go for lethal, but I missed an untapped land and got wrecked. Got a quick win in game 2, but mulled to 5 in game 3 and lost easily.
Round 2, I got a quick win 2-1 win against Jeskai Nahiri. Turn 2 Thought-Knot into turn 3 Reality Smasher for game 1. I got stuck on two lands with a Spreading Seas on one in game 2. Game 3, I got an early Thought-Knot. He Clique'd away my Reality Smasher, but I consecutively drew Blight Herder, Blight Herder, Reality Smasher to overwhelm his back-to-back Nahiri's and kill him.
Round 3 was against Uw Merfolk. He was able to build up his board in game 1 and then play Spreading Seas to push through lethal. Game 2 was very stalled, with me leaving up 2 Ghost Quarters to fend off 2 Mutavaults and the threat of Spreading Seas. I played a couple of defensive Reality Smashers, then a Blight Herder with tokens, and finally drew Sorin to swing the race. Game 3 I was mauled by a triple lord draw with Aether Vial on turn 1 as well. That dropped me to 1-2.
Round 4 was against Grixis Delver. I got turn 2 Thought-Knot, exiling Remand. He got turn 3 Gurmag Angler, which I Pathed, and I was able to beat down for the win. Game 2, he played Delvers on turns 1 and 2. I played the Eternal Scourge. It got some damage in, along with him taking some pain from his mana base. He revealed Kolaghan's Command to flip the Delvers. I Pathed one of them and he chose to get the land and shuffle away the command. He attacked for 3 that turn, but decided to trade the Insectile Aberration with Eternal Scourge the next turn. He countered both halves of Lingering Souls, but I drew a second copy and the four spirits finished him off. 2-2
Game 4 was Jeskai Nahiri again. He scooped to a turn 3 Reality Smasher game 1. Game 2, he kept a sketchy 1 land hand with Celestial Colonnade. I Thoughtseized away a Path, leaving 2 Bolts, another Path, a Snapcaster, and Timely Reinforcements. Then I Ghost Quartered the Colonnade to make him choose white or red. He got a plains. I played Thought-Knot the next turn which took the Snapcaster and ate the Path. I followed that up with Reality Smasher and 4 spirits to secure the win. 3-2
Round 6 was against Living End with Kiki/Exarch combo. He was not happy to see main deck Relic of Progenitus (2 in my opening 7). Smashers did the bulk of the work to win both games. I probably was overzealous in game 2, using Surgical Extractions on his turn 1 cycled Deadshot Minotaur and turn 3 Fulminator Mage, instead of waiting to get a Living End, but it worked out ok. 4-2
Round 7 was against Elves. I got an early Thought-Knot to take one of her two copies of Collected Company in hand, but she actually drew the other two as well and overwhelmed me. Game 2, I had to mull to 5, couldn't find Wrath, and Lingering Souls didn't help against Ezuri's pump. 4-3 final record.
I really enjoyed the deck. It crushed the deck I wanted to beat (Jeskai). I expected quite a bit of Jund too, which there was. I just didn't run into it. I am definitely planning on running the deck again at other upcoming PPTQs and possibly GP Indianapolis.
Also if you are interested, the Top 8 archetypes were 2 GR Tron, 1 Burn, 1 Lantern Control, 1 Bogles, 1 Abzan, 1 Ad Nauseam, and 1 Living End.
Quarters: Abzan>Ad Nauseam, Burn>Tron, Tron>Living End, Lantern>Bogles.
Semis: Burn>Tron, Lantern>Abzan.
Finals: Burn>Lantern.