I don't really get bathe in light here. At the point that they target your creatures, the trigger to kill them already goes on the stack. On top of that, you're already playing Thalia and effectively 3 different "colored" (Adaptive automaton doesn't get benefits) creatures. I think bathe in light's use seems rather limited here. Instead, I think what I'd be looking at is more mirror entity which sets up turn 5 lethality much better while providing survivability and other bonuses. You're already not hyper aggro because you're playing aether vial which is a card that takes your turn 1 play and starts really cashing in on turns 3-5. Amazing but not hyper aggro. My preference for illusions is a midrange build rather than trying to go for high speed. As you note, merfolks do that better. For this, though, I think that you can't treat it as 12-16 lords tribe the way you can merfolk. Playing stuff like adaptive automaton isn't the way to go. Instead, I think it'd be better to beef up on mirror entity. First, when you go wide, mirror entity allows you to pull lethal damage from nowhere which is relevant with fliers and makes for absolutely massive krovikan mists. Second, mirror entity on a 0 activation infinitely saves your lord of the unreal. If you're not abusing lord of the unreal and mirror entity as much as possible, I can't help but think the deck is like a worse UW spirits given EDM.
I haven't thought about activating Mirror Entity for X=0, it seems like a very good option to completely blank targeted removal with Lord of the Unreal on board.
I think that some of it shouldn't be considered in the vein of worse merfolk. For example, judge's familiar. This is not an illusion, nor is it tarmogoyf (Ie, a beater that's just so efficient that it doesn't matter that it isn't part of the tribe). The fancier you get with bells and whistles, the more you dilute the tribal bonuses. Krovikan mist and lord of the unreal get worse with every non-illusion creature you put in. Of the cards listed, I don't see any of them to be too appealing when you're effectively an aggro deck. To me, 3-4 mirror entities is a must due to the synergy and your lack of lords. If you can't threaten to scale up, you can threaten to vial in and go lethal or trade very favorably. Here's my thoughts.
Hindering light: Aren't you tapping out a lot with your creature based deck? I'm not saying counters are bad but leaving UW up for removal makes the assumption that you're ahead while playing your UU for 2 lord that can't buff each other. This doesn't stop sweepers either. Mana leak looks better if you want a counter.
The card draw: You're an aggro deck again. You aren't really wanting to waste turn 3 or 4 with getting more gas. Also, do you want to be discarding automaton (which I think isn't so good anyway) when it is one of your lords?
Monastery siege: Seems too slow. If you have a board and can increase cost to target, you're winning already, probably with just a swing.
Return to the ranks: Decide if you want to be midrange or aggro. If midrange, there's other things to look at. If aggro, probably best to not think about that.
Wings of Velis Veil: Mirror entity does that better, being a body, win condition, and good vial target.
Hidden strings: Bells and whistles.
Disrupting shoals: How fast do you deplete your hand and how well do you refill it within your aggro strategy?
Azorius charm: Utility or another threat for your aggro deck?
Judge's familiar: Not an illusion.
Ojutai's command: You sounded more like you wanted aggressive. Ojutai's command is more midrange.
Though, 1x-of Thirst for Knowledge doesn't sound too bad in this deck (maybe instead of 1x Thalia ?).
I can probably up the Mirror Entity count to 3x as they aren't great in multiples but I would probably want to have one by turn 4.
It can probably be at the expense of Bathe in Light.
Any other cards that can be good here ? (Kira, Great Glass-Spinner in the MB ?)
Maybe something for mass-evasion ?
Well, that's why we discuss these things. I think declaration in stone is probably the strongest of the ones mentioned, giving you more reach. Due to lack of lord counts and lots of 1/1s, I think lingering souls feels troublesome.
I don't think it is bad to have mirror entity necessarily. To me, it is one of those cards that they kill when you have a board state or you win. I like playing cards that demand removal and the fact that you're using vial gives you more reasons to. Here's an example of how it fits nicely.
Turn 1 land, vial.
Turn 2 land, krovikan, vial in one drop.
Turn 3 mirror entity, leaving vial on 2 to vial in lord of the unreal in response if they try to shoot it. The fact that you can vial at 2 when you play mirror entity is big because lord of the unreal makes you on the verge of winning there and phantasmal image likely means you get to hit for a good amount.
When I tinkered with the idea, I ended up cutting vial, deciding that illusions didn't have enough concentration at any particular cmc. Cmc 2 sort of but we could just cast those normally and it isn't merfolk. If you tried, it'd just be much worse merfolk and worse spirits now since they have a more condensed curve with lots of plays at 2, then enough at 3 to want to move and stay there. They also have multiple spirits with flash which make their counterspells better.
I don't have the list on this computer as it was something I tinkered with back when illusions were in standard (Since, I've moved onto the spirit project which has become much easier as of late) but I can at least give you an idea of it.
I basically slowed things down a bit and added in the capacity to push the main parts of the curve to 4 and added some control elements to allow me to play 2-3 sun titan. I forget what number I ultimately settled on. Sun titan was basically my endgame play in conjunction with phantasmal images for creation of a board state that demands a wipe. So doing less on aggro, a little more on playing big things that can threaten lethal with mirror entity or fight against midrange well enough to drag it out to a point where an army of 6/6s becomes a thing.
I'm not a big fan of the card choices there but the budget constraints really held it down.
#Illusory Angel is unplayable without Aether Vial (and not consistent even with it) and Phantasmal Dragon is too slow for its downside and not that scary anymore (I'd rather go lower to the ground with Jace's Phantasm which works better with lords and Krovikan Mist).
#Mana Leak is pretty bad in a deck that taps out to play creatures, they mention Remand as an upgraded option but even on a budget I'd probably go with Unsubstantiate over Mana Leak here as it can move blockers out of the way as well as bounces spells.
#Grand Architect is worse than Adaptive Automaton (mentioned as an upgraded) in this deck, I'd also run Metallic Mimic over him as well.
#Playing 6x cantrips in a supposedly aggro deck seems very strange and unintuitive imho.
The new Illusion Labyrinth Guardian doesn't seem particulary playable, however it is the first Illusion creature printed in a rather long time
(Illusory Angel from M15, I don't count Nivix Barrier) so maybe better ones will come if not in this set then in the next.
That new Illusion could've been playable with just a little more push without being OP... Seriously, it's worse than Trueheart Duelist in almost every way and even that guy isn't that exciting. Very disappointing as it could've filled one of the needs of the deck. Anyway, I've been trying to make a similar deck competitive for quite some time now and IMO what it's currently lacking are:
a good beater, preferably evasive, at 2cmc. Krovikan Mist sucks.
really just another proper lord, at 2-3cmc
I think I've tried every combination there is and read every thread lol. White splash is good for the numerous SB options that Black just does not have, even now that Black has Fatal Push, so I'm partial to UW. I agree that Illusory Angel is better than Illusionary Servant, even after the Gitaxian Probe ban, which means I'm also a fan of Aether Vial in the deck. And Snapcaster Mage has great synergy with Vial, so I'd say he's a good candidate for inclusion if you play Vial.
The other lords and Metallic Mimic... Well, they just kind of really fall short on what the deck needs. Illusions are big enough, what they need are protection, evasion or other combat-related abilities. I feel like if another good lord like Lord of the Unreal was printed, the deck would be at least competitive at Tier 3. As it is, Spirits is in a similar situation (only 1 good lord), but while they are smaller, they are much more versatile, almost all of them have flying, and they don't have the disadvantage of not being able to be protected with targeted spells or buffed with auras or equipment. That's what hurts most about the Illusion clause, dying to an enemy's Teetering Peaks second lol
Most recent cards I've tried were Monastery Siege and Smuggler's Copter. Didn't like Siege much, as I found myself picking Khans too often, which kind of renders the reason for including it moot. Copter on the other hand gives me hope. Lets LotU/Snap attack or block almost without reprisal. The looting option is good with topdeck vials/extra lands. If only there was a similarly costed vehicle with Crew 2 and somewhat better stats, as crewing the Copter with a 2 powered creature kind of diminishes its efficiency.
I actually think that Krovikan Mist is one of the best cards in the deck, often being at least a 3/3 flier for 2.
I'm not sure how playable Illusory Angel is even with Aether Vial as I had it stuck in my hand quite often when I played with it so I replaced it with Adaptive Automaton which I now consider replacing with Metallic Mimic to lower the curve even more.
White seems pretty solid as a secondary color so far, Thalia helps with tempo against removal and having PtE and the good SB hate cards improves the deck greatly (compared to Mono-U) but it can still draw clunky hands and fold to early disruption be it removal or discard but I guess it can also happen to Merfolk but they have better ways to recover from it (Silvergill Adept and Master of Waves).
The Mirror Entity + Lord of the Unreal "combo" can also be very good and blank spot removal completely.
Another creature which might be worth borrowing from "Spirits" is Selfless Spirit which is evasive and can protect the Lords and mess with combat math.
Eh. Mist always ends up small in my experience, but it may be because of the lower creature count of my deck, or my testing method (must survive RDW, Bolts and Arc Trails fly everywhere). Guess I'll try it again in a different build.
I think the reason I don't have any problems with Angel is because I have a fair number of low-cost spells in the deck, and Serum Visions helps in planning ahead (e.g. I'd happily set Vial to 3 if I knew I was gonna draw Angel). I don't really mind casting it at T4 either, as you still get the full value of the other spell you cast instead of just, say, putting down a Dragon.
TBH most of the time I don't care about protecting LotU, as much as I think the Mirror Entity interaction is neat, I've found building around LotU actually weakens the deck because it creates dependencies in a deck that already has multiples of them. Vialing in Image in response to removal can "protect" LotU (correct me if I'm wrong) and I guess I'm satisfied with that.
Cool. You're deff. trying to be a tempo deck, so not sure if vial's where you wanna be, although playing dudes while still having discard/counter options open is nice. One little thing I wanted to point out to ya...the creature type of changeling also applies as an illusion, so there may be something there you might like. Smother probably is your best option, other than maybe Fatal Push. I might recommend maybe Ancestral Visions, simply as a way to refuel your hand with gas if your opponent happens to answer your initial onslaught? That and maybe a Cryptic Command or two? Seems like you could take better advantage of ALL of it's modes...tapping down their blockers for an alpha swing, or tapping down their attackers to buy another turn(the worse use of the tap mode), etc etc.
Aether Vial has great synergy with Phantasmal Image which is tricky to play without it and it also frees up mana to activate Mirror Entity which needs quite a bit of mana to be effective as an anthem.
I've dropped the black splash in favor of white (for Thalia, Mirror Entity, PtE and SB cards).
Ancestral Vision and Cryptic Command are control cards and wouldn't fit a tribal aggro-tempo (think Merfolk or UW D&T) deck like this one.
I don't think that Illusions work in a control deck.
You're probably right; I played U/W delver when illusions where being played in standard. Never been my cup of tea as I could never get it to work, but I always liked the theme.
Aether Vial is a card that should either be a 4x-of or 0 imho as you want to maximize the odds of having it in the opening hand as it gets progressively worse the later you draw/play it.
You can replace your 2x copies with Smuggler's Copter which is good in any creature deck and adds more evasion to the deck.
Might not be a bad idea to find room for a copy of Arcane Adaptation as it can make Lord of the Unreal an illusion as well thus making your whole board hexproof.
Steel Hellkite is a trap as it would be uncastable and rot in hand without Architect and both can be easily removed.
It fits more into more Architect-centric decks which prefer better artifacts like Wurmcoil Engine usually.
Aether Vial is a card that should either be a 4x-of or 0 imho as you want to maximize the odds of having it in the opening hand as it gets progressively worse the later you draw/play it.
You can replace your 2x copies with Smuggler's Copter which is good in any creature deck and adds more evasion to the deck.
Might not be a bad idea to find room for a copy of Arcane Adaptation as it can make Lord of the Unreal an illusion as well thus making your whole board hexproof.
Thx I'll make and update once I get some testing done. Im new to modern as well, is spell snare any good? I plan on buying some once my tax refund comes in. I've also been making a list without Aether Vials, and Ill test and post it here later
Here is my updated deck after testing. I still need to work on sideboard. As for the main board, I took what was said on this and updated it. Just as a my own personal take is the 1 Jace. I understand its a bad card, but its just a personal tech. The arcane adaptation worked and surprisingly, the monastery actually put in work to help
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The idea behind Bathe in Light is to have an equivalent to Brave the Elements in the deck to set up alpha strikes and blank Pyroclasm/Anger of the Gods.
Actually only Phantasmal Image and Phantasmal Bear shouldn't be targeted which leaves me with 12 options (4x Jace's Phantasm, 4x Krovikan Mist and 4x Lord of the Unreal).
Some other cards I consider for the deck:
Hindering Light - a cantriping counterspells that can protect Lord of the Unreal, A.Vial or another creature.
Military Intelligence/Thirst for Knowledge (can pitch extra Vials or Automatons) - for card draw.
Monastery Siege - for looting or protection (I already have a couple in the SB, should I add it to the MB ?)
Return to the Ranks - most of the creatures are 1-2 cmc so maybe it can be of use here.
Wings of Velis Vel - a pump+evasion spell that turns a creature into an Illusion as well.
Hidden Strings - might do some work with the flyers.
Disrupting Shoal - with only 1-2 cmc blue cards can it be good here ?
Azorius Charm - for utility.
Judge's Familiar - for taxing.
Ojutai's Command - for utility.
Hindering light: Aren't you tapping out a lot with your creature based deck? I'm not saying counters are bad but leaving UW up for removal makes the assumption that you're ahead while playing your UU for 2 lord that can't buff each other. This doesn't stop sweepers either. Mana leak looks better if you want a counter.
The card draw: You're an aggro deck again. You aren't really wanting to waste turn 3 or 4 with getting more gas. Also, do you want to be discarding automaton (which I think isn't so good anyway) when it is one of your lords?
Monastery siege: Seems too slow. If you have a board and can increase cost to target, you're winning already, probably with just a swing.
Return to the ranks: Decide if you want to be midrange or aggro. If midrange, there's other things to look at. If aggro, probably best to not think about that.
Wings of Velis Veil: Mirror entity does that better, being a body, win condition, and good vial target.
Hidden strings: Bells and whistles.
Disrupting shoals: How fast do you deplete your hand and how well do you refill it within your aggro strategy?
Azorius charm: Utility or another threat for your aggro deck?
Judge's familiar: Not an illusion.
Ojutai's command: You sounded more like you wanted aggressive. Ojutai's command is more midrange.
Some other cards in the same vein are: Psionic Blast (removal/reach), Mana Tithe, Bident of Thassa, Declaration in Stone, Detention Sphere.
Though, 1x-of Thirst for Knowledge doesn't sound too bad in this deck (maybe instead of 1x Thalia ?).
I can probably up the Mirror Entity count to 3x as they aren't great in multiples but I would probably want to have one by turn 4.
It can probably be at the expense of Bathe in Light.
Any other cards that can be good here ? (Kira, Great Glass-Spinner in the MB ?)
Maybe something for mass-evasion ?
How would you build the deck as Midrange list ?
I don't think it is bad to have mirror entity necessarily. To me, it is one of those cards that they kill when you have a board state or you win. I like playing cards that demand removal and the fact that you're using vial gives you more reasons to. Here's an example of how it fits nicely.
Turn 1 land, vial.
Turn 2 land, krovikan, vial in one drop.
Turn 3 mirror entity, leaving vial on 2 to vial in lord of the unreal in response if they try to shoot it. The fact that you can vial at 2 when you play mirror entity is big because lord of the unreal makes you on the verge of winning there and phantasmal image likely means you get to hit for a good amount.
When I tinkered with the idea, I ended up cutting vial, deciding that illusions didn't have enough concentration at any particular cmc. Cmc 2 sort of but we could just cast those normally and it isn't merfolk. If you tried, it'd just be much worse merfolk and worse spirits now since they have a more condensed curve with lots of plays at 2, then enough at 3 to want to move and stay there. They also have multiple spirits with flash which make their counterspells better.
I don't have the list on this computer as it was something I tinkered with back when illusions were in standard (Since, I've moved onto the spirit project which has become much easier as of late) but I can at least give you an idea of it.
I basically slowed things down a bit and added in the capacity to push the main parts of the curve to 4 and added some control elements to allow me to play 2-3 sun titan. I forget what number I ultimately settled on. Sun titan was basically my endgame play in conjunction with phantasmal images for creation of a board state that demands a wipe. So doing less on aggro, a little more on playing big things that can threaten lethal with mirror entity or fight against midrange well enough to drag it out to a point where an army of 6/6s becomes a thing.
Can Spare from Evil be the card I'm looking for (is it good enough for the MB) ?
Here is my current list:
4x Jace's Phantasm
4x Phantasmal Bear
4x Krovikan Mist
4x Lord of the Unreal
4x Phantasmal Image
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Mirror Entity
2x Adaptive Automaton
4x Path to Exile
4x Vapor Snag
Artifact (4)
4x Aether Vial
Land (20)
4x Flooded Strand
4x Hallowed Fountain
4x Seachrome Coast
4x Mutavault
3x Island
1x Plains
2x Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
2x Disenchant
1x Declaration in Stone
2x Unified Will
2x Meddling Mage
2x Detention Sphere
2x Monastery Siege
2x Rest in Peace
http://decks.tcgplayer.com/magic/modern/tms-wedge/mono-blue-illusions/1280714
I'm not a big fan of the card choices there but the budget constraints really held it down.
#Illusory Angel is unplayable without Aether Vial (and not consistent even with it) and Phantasmal Dragon is too slow for its downside and not that scary anymore (I'd rather go lower to the ground with Jace's Phantasm which works better with lords and Krovikan Mist).
#Mana Leak is pretty bad in a deck that taps out to play creatures, they mention Remand as an upgraded option but even on a budget I'd probably go with Unsubstantiate over Mana Leak here as it can move blockers out of the way as well as bounces spells.
#Grand Architect is worse than Adaptive Automaton (mentioned as an upgraded) in this deck, I'd also run Metallic Mimic over him as well.
#Playing 6x cantrips in a supposedly aggro deck seems very strange and unintuitive imho.
They mention the White splash in the upgrade path and I think it makes the deck much better with the additions of:
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Path to Exile, Mirror Entity and all the good SB cards.
Vapor Snag and Unsubstantiate (or Remand) are good alternatives.
I'd also go with Adaptive Automaton and Metallic Mimic over Phyrexian Metamorph and Grand Architect.
I'd also not play the full playsets but rather a 3/3 split.
Jace's Phantasm would also be a good addition to the deck, I could see it replacing Spell Pierce
(or another spell, prefferably not Vapor Snag).
Something like this:
20 Island
Creatures (30)
4 Phantasmal Bear
4 Jace's Phantasm
4 Krovikan Mist
4 Lord of the Unreal
4 Phantasmal Image
3 Metallic Mimic
3 Adaptive Automaton
4 Vapor Snag
4 Unsubstantiate
2 Spell Pierce
(Illusory Angel from M15, I don't count Nivix Barrier) so maybe better ones will come if not in this set then in the next.
I think I've tried every combination there is and read every thread lol. White splash is good for the numerous SB options that Black just does not have, even now that Black has Fatal Push, so I'm partial to UW. I agree that Illusory Angel is better than Illusionary Servant, even after the Gitaxian Probe ban, which means I'm also a fan of Aether Vial in the deck. And Snapcaster Mage has great synergy with Vial, so I'd say he's a good candidate for inclusion if you play Vial.
The other lords and Metallic Mimic... Well, they just kind of really fall short on what the deck needs. Illusions are big enough, what they need are protection, evasion or other combat-related abilities. I feel like if another good lord like Lord of the Unreal was printed, the deck would be at least competitive at Tier 3. As it is, Spirits is in a similar situation (only 1 good lord), but while they are smaller, they are much more versatile, almost all of them have flying, and they don't have the disadvantage of not being able to be protected with targeted spells or buffed with auras or equipment. That's what hurts most about the Illusion clause, dying to an enemy's Teetering Peaks second lol
Most recent cards I've tried were Monastery Siege and Smuggler's Copter. Didn't like Siege much, as I found myself picking Khans too often, which kind of renders the reason for including it moot. Copter on the other hand gives me hope. Lets LotU/Snap attack or block almost without reprisal. The looting option is good with topdeck vials/extra lands. If only there was a similarly costed vehicle with Crew 2 and somewhat better stats, as crewing the Copter with a 2 powered creature kind of diminishes its efficiency.
I'm not sure how playable Illusory Angel is even with Aether Vial as I had it stuck in my hand quite often when I played with it so I replaced it with Adaptive Automaton which I now consider replacing with Metallic Mimic to lower the curve even more.
White seems pretty solid as a secondary color so far, Thalia helps with tempo against removal and having PtE and the good SB hate cards improves the deck greatly (compared to Mono-U) but it can still draw clunky hands and fold to early disruption be it removal or discard but I guess it can also happen to Merfolk but they have better ways to recover from it (Silvergill Adept and Master of Waves).
The Mirror Entity + Lord of the Unreal "combo" can also be very good and blank spot removal completely.
Another creature which might be worth borrowing from "Spirits" is Selfless Spirit which is evasive and can protect the Lords and mess with combat math.
I think the reason I don't have any problems with Angel is because I have a fair number of low-cost spells in the deck, and Serum Visions helps in planning ahead (e.g. I'd happily set Vial to 3 if I knew I was gonna draw Angel). I don't really mind casting it at T4 either, as you still get the full value of the other spell you cast instead of just, say, putting down a Dragon.
TBH most of the time I don't care about protecting LotU, as much as I think the Mirror Entity interaction is neat, I've found building around LotU actually weakens the deck because it creates dependencies in a deck that already has multiples of them. Vialing in Image in response to removal can "protect" LotU (correct me if I'm wrong) and I guess I'm satisfied with that.
Not being a creature makes it less appealing than Mirror Entity in U/W though.
The new Jace makes Phantasmal Bears but isn't particulary good imho.
I've dropped the black splash in favor of white (for Thalia, Mirror Entity, PtE and SB cards).
Ancestral Vision and Cryptic Command are control cards and wouldn't fit a tribal aggro-tempo (think Merfolk or UW D&T) deck like this one.
I don't think that Illusions work in a control deck.
I don't really think that the deck wants Chart a Course as it doesn't even play Serum Visions, especially the UW version with Thalia.
A card I haven't tested in the deck yet but should be pretty good in the deck is Smuggler's Copter.
It can replace a couple of Vapor Snags.
4 Phantasmal Bear
4 Lord of the Unreal
4 Phantasmal Image
3 Grand Architect
4 Illusory Angel
4 Krovikan Mist
2 Phantasmal Dragon
4 Opt
4 Mana Leak
2 Aether Vial
3 Vapor Snag
2 Jace, Cunning Castaway
Land 20
17 Islands
3 Mutavault
3 Dismember
3 Ghost Quarter
3 Spreading Seas
2 Spell Pierce
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Dispel
I havent had a chance to really test it since most of it is still in the mail. Im looking into adding a 4th mutavault and change the 3 Grand Architect for 3 Adaptive Automaton or 3 Metallic Mimic
4x Jace's Phantasm, 4x Metallic Mimic and 3x Adaptive Automaton.
As far as spells go I'd probably go with Remand over Mana Leak (Rune Snag or Unsubstantiate are also options) and Serum Visions (or Chart a Course)
over Opt.
Aether Vial is a card that should either be a 4x-of or 0 imho as you want to maximize the odds of having it in the opening hand as it gets progressively worse the later you draw/play it.
You can replace your 2x copies with Smuggler's Copter which is good in any creature deck and adds more evasion to the deck.
Might not be a bad idea to find room for a copy of Arcane Adaptation as it can make Lord of the Unreal an illusion as well thus making your whole board hexproof.
It fits more into more Architect-centric decks which prefer better artifacts like Wurmcoil Engine usually.
Thx I'll make and update once I get some testing done. Im new to modern as well, is spell snare any good? I plan on buying some once my tax refund comes in. I've also been making a list without Aether Vials, and Ill test and post it here later
4 Phantasmal Bear
4 Jace's Phantasm
4 Lord of the Unreal
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Krovikan Mist
3 Grand Architect
2 Phantasmal Dragon
4 Remand
3 Vapor Snag
2 Dismember
2 Monastery Siege
1 Jace, Cunning Castaway
1 Arcane Adaptation
17 Islands
3 Mutavault
Side
3 Scavenger Grounds
3 Spell Pierce
3 Ghost Quarter
3 Dispel
3 Spell Snare
Here is my updated deck after testing. I still need to work on sideboard. As for the main board, I took what was said on this and updated it. Just as a my own personal take is the 1 Jace. I understand its a bad card, but its just a personal tech. The arcane adaptation worked and surprisingly, the monastery actually put in work to help