Hyper Delve is combo deck that takes advantage of the card Waste Not. It uses wheel affects to get waste not triggers while simultaneously fueling delve. This gives us a combo deck that has a very solid plan B.
The Combo
The main idea behind the combo is to resolve Waste Not, then cast either Burning Inquiry or Dark Deal to trigger it. Once you cast one of those spells, you can cast Dream Salvage which will be Ancestral Recall or better. After We draw and discard our deck we just cast Empty the Pits or another win condition.
The mana base is fairly standard for a BR deck (and also something I have not really tuned yet). I think the only land that needs some explanation Dragonskull Summit. The reason I play this land over Blackcleave Cliffs is that Empty the Pits costs BBBB and so the fourth or fifth land coming in untapped is very important.
Sideboard Cards
Coming Soon!
Other Cards
Faithless Looting is amazing in this deck. It fuels delve for 3 while giving us the card selection we need to find a Waste Not quickly or avoid getting stuck on lands. Raven's Crime is great as a one of because it allows us to empty our opponents hand before casting empty the pits. I haven't had a chance to test Simian Spirit Guide yet but it seems like something that could be very powerful in the deck. It can give us R while we are going off to cast Faithless Looting or Burning Inquiry and it could also just let us cast Dark Deal off of two lands or Waste Not on turn one.
Bloodghast? With all the discarding you'll be doing you should be able to get him into the yard, and hen back out again. Love the idea of the deck!
Bloodghast sounds pretty sweet. I think I'll try it out. Inquisition of Kozilek hasn't been very good in my testing so I have some room for more cards.
It's a small suggestion, but Dakmor Salvage seems really good in this deck..pitch it to Raven's Crime, dredge, repeat. Taking note of a few cards from 8rack lists, Ensnaring Bridge and probably Thoughtseize look good, too.
This deck is sort of an alternate universe 8rack, so looking at those lists and discussion might be helpful in crafting a list for this strategy.
I've actually played 8-Rack a lot and at first I had cards like Liliana of the Veil, wrench Mind, and Thoughtseize. I quickly realized, though, that this deck is not nearly as good when hand sizes are small. Dark Deal really wants both players to have a large hand size and Burning Inquiry is a lot worese when it's just mill 3.
So I took the deck out to my LGS for the first time on Thursday and I went 1-2. While 1-2 is not that good, the deck still has a lot of tuning before it is complete. Also the 3rd deck I played against was ridiculous. Round 1 was RG Tron, I won 2-1 comboing off twice. Round 2 I played against Naya Company and lost 1-2. The games felt very close I just didn't quite get there. Round 3 I played against a Treasure Hunt deck. This basically made Waste Not suck. I boarded it out game 2 (which I think was a mistake) and lost 0-2. Overall, I think of it as a 1-1 night for testing purposes as Treasure Hunt is so far from anything I will ever see again.
I should note that I just threw Boil in there because I didn't have a second Night of Souls' Betrayal.
The only card that felt like it wasn't good was Inquisition of Kozilek for the reasons I talked about in the last post. I might keep a Thoughtseize or two in the sideboard though. I would really like try out Simian Spirit Guide and Liliana's Caress so I think the list I will bring next time is this one
I really love this deck it's alot of fun and over powered if you play it in multiplayer games.
I feel the deck needs more Burning Inquiry related cards. We need cards that are cheaper which force opponent to draw and discard. You would think this would be good in a black-blue card, (blue draw, black discard) it's surprising we got it in red.
The win cons are simple, a zombie beat down with Waste Not, or Liliana's Caress, I think it's sufficient because with burning inquiry and serum visions I can cycle through the deck fast. I find most of my wins are with Liliana's Caress, the zombies basically end up chump blocking most of the time to keep me alive.
Anyone else playing a similar style deck as this? I feel if it got one or two key cards it could way more competitive combo.
I think Collective Defiance and Reforge the soul could do a lot in this deck.
Collective defiance is very flexible and in combo with caress it can deal a lot of damage. Reforge the soul can be a finisher and ensures that your opponents hand is full which is good when you have caress out.
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
I've been practicing with Collective Defiance, I've found it's not really that good because most of the time I get it in my hand my opponent has pretty much emptied their hands. That's my same concern with reforge the soul. I guess the advantage with reforge the soul is it fills their hand so my Raven's Crime can do work again. I haven't put that much practice in with Reforge the soul yet.
The main advantage of my deck right now is burning inquiry and Wistful Thinking force my opponent to draw cards which ensures they have something to discard.
I'm disappointed people aren't as excited as I am about this deck combo.
Really all this deck needs is a bigger burning inquiry and it could be made into 2 colors and I think could be Tier 2-competitive. All we need is M19 to develop a bigger burning inquiry which hopefully only cost 2 and then this deck is totally in business.
The way my deck works is similar to 8 rack. In 8 rack you need one of the 8 rack effects to close the game, this deck plays the same way in that you either need Waste Not or Liliana's Caress and you in business. The problem comes 4 turns in when your opponent only has 1-2 cards in their hand, we don't benefit from them having a low card count like 8 Rack, we need more Draw-Discard effects to ensure they always have cards in hand.
I think the idea behind the deck is interesting but like you said, there is a lack of tools to keep it running. I searched for ways to make caress and waste not work when the opponent has few or no cards in hand, and I found: Warped Devotion !
And this is nuts. If you add U to the deck you have so many ways to control the board and get rid of problem cards. If the opponent has no cards in hand and you bounce something he has to discard the bounced card.
And you have many tools to mak that work.
Just to name some of them.
I know the deck will play really different, because it will be more of a control than a combo deck, but I think it can work.
You could run isochron sceptre with Boomerang so you can also bounce lands if yo want. And you can chose what they have to discard and make better use of waste not.
Along with that you can play normal discard like thoughtseize, inquisition of kozilek, duress and so on.
Another question is, remand. I think it doesn't trigger warped devotion even if you counter a permanent spell right? This would be very nice. But I think it doesn't work that way.
Maybe I will give it a try if I have time to test it.
Ok reforge the soul is super strong. It gives you a brand new hand to find your pieces for the combo, and it fills the opponents hand and your hand full of lands so raven's crime can do work. Also it works really good because you can also use noxious revival to put reforge the soul back on the top of the library to get them a near-full-hand discard again.
The three colours is giving me some problems with the mana base though. Looking for more ways to get it down to RB.
I didn't try the warped devotion method because it fundamentally change the whole deck from Combo to Control.
I'm winning about 50% (15-13) of the competitive matches on MTGO, but I haven't taken it into leagues yet. I guess that is where the real test is. It gets level 3 kills, but if you don't mulligan into a combo piece you can have some pretty dead hands. I've stretched my mana as thin as I'm comfortable given the 6 - 3 drops.
Reforge the soul is great when you draw into it, really sucks in your hand though, I guess those are the trade-offs you take. I'm hoping M19 gives us some love. We need a bigger burning inquiry to be able to tie this deck together.
And you'll notice I got it down to BR.
The deck has kind of strayed away from the "Hyper Delve" this thread is about. it's more so about "Waste Not Combo" but it uses a lot of the same ideas and cards the thread creator used so I'm going to keep posting my updates to this list.
Waste Not is putting up some stiff competition for being my favourite card behind Raven's Crime
Usually with waste not you're drawing extra cards, or if you vs a creature deck getting 2/2's. Rarely do you get mana because most of the time opponents have already cleared their mana out of their hands. The only time you really get mana is if you lay Dark Deal or Collective Defiance then go attacking with raven's crime.
but when that happens generally I just reinvest my bulk mana into powering my raven's crime with the lands I just drew.
I considered shadow of the grave, the downside is I just don't want to pay mana for it so kept with noxious revival. Generally I'm using these cards to setup the "go off" turn. Most of the time I discard via burning inquiry or dark deal I don't really miss the cards that get tossed away and I'm very apprehensive about adding more cards like shadow of the grave because it waters down the discard a bit and slows down my clock I find. So generally when i do want a card, most of the time I don't want all of them, I generally just want one single card.
My brain is wanting to tell you, you can go storm with it, but I think you do not want to do that. You could also charge up and Torment of Hailfire someones face, as a win con. Hmmmm... for sideboard maybe Kolaghan's Command?
I currently daft, on what could assist ye on your endeavor for greatness.
I've seen the Waste Not Storm decks. I guess I'm stopping just a few cards short of becoming one of them. I figure if you want to play storm you might as well play true BR storm. Competitively I'm not sure what's actually better.
I wasn't really looking for advice mainly just use the thread to post updates to my progress since I found a good shell in this thread. I think my interest has now come to it's end given my progress.
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Hyper Delve is combo deck that takes advantage of the card Waste Not. It uses wheel affects to get waste not triggers while simultaneously fueling delve. This gives us a combo deck that has a very solid plan B.
The main idea behind the combo is to resolve Waste Not, then cast either Burning Inquiry or Dark Deal to trigger it. Once you cast one of those spells, you can cast Dream Salvage which will be Ancestral Recall or better. After We draw and discard our deck we just cast Empty the Pits or another win condition.
What if you never resolve Empty the Pits? You can still cast Gurmag Angler and Murderous Cut for just B. Those along with Inquisition of Kozilek, Lightning Bolt, and Zombie Tokens make the deck a serious mid range threat.
The primary win condition that I've been going with is Empty The Pits. It is a very powerful card but it has the downside of not always being in your hand. That's why I have also been considering a white splash for Unburial Rites. We could get back Iona, Shield of Emeria or Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite.
The mana base is fairly standard for a BR deck (and also something I have not really tuned yet). I think the only land that needs some explanation Dragonskull Summit. The reason I play this land over Blackcleave Cliffs is that Empty the Pits costs BBBB and so the fourth or fifth land coming in untapped is very important.
Faithless Looting is amazing in this deck. It fuels delve for 3 while giving us the card selection we need to find a Waste Not quickly or avoid getting stuck on lands. Raven's Crime is great as a one of because it allows us to empty our opponents hand before casting empty the pits. I haven't had a chance to test Simian Spirit Guide yet but it seems like something that could be very powerful in the deck. It can give us R while we are going off to cast Faithless Looting or Burning Inquiry and it could also just let us cast Dark Deal off of two lands or Waste Not on turn one.
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
2 Blood Crypt
4 Dragonskull Summit
2 Mountain
6 Swamp
Creatures
4 Gurmag Angler
Spells
4 Waste Not
4 Faithless Looting
4 Burning Inquiry
4 Dark Deal
3 Dream Salvage
3 Empty the Pits
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Raven's Crime
4 Murderous Cut
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Surgical Extraction
3 Rakdos Charm
3 Pyroclasm
2 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Darkblast
2 Terminate
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Bloodghast sounds pretty sweet. I think I'll try it out. Inquisition of Kozilek hasn't been very good in my testing so I have some room for more cards.
I agree but I feel like most of the graveyard hate is enchantment based. I'm not really sure how to deal with that in Black-Red. Any ideas?
Oh my god! I can't believe I didn't think of this. It seems way better than Empty the Pits as a wincon.
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Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
It's a small suggestion, but Dakmor Salvage seems really good in this deck..pitch it to Raven's Crime, dredge, repeat. Taking note of a few cards from 8rack lists, Ensnaring Bridge and probably Thoughtseize look good, too.
This deck is sort of an alternate universe 8rack, so looking at those lists and discussion might be helpful in crafting a list for this strategy.
Here is the list I played.
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
2 Blood Crypt
4 Dragonskull Summit
2 Mountain
6 Swamp
Creatures
4 Gurmag Angler
Spells
4 Waste Not
4 Faithless Looting
4 Burning Inquiry
4 Dark Deal
3 Dream Salvage
3 Empty the Pits
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Raven's Crime
4 Murderous Cut
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Surgical Extraction
2 Rakdos Charm
3 Pyroclasm
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Darkblast
2 Terminate
1 Syphon Life
1 Boil
I should note that I just threw Boil in there because I didn't have a second Night of Souls' Betrayal.
The only card that felt like it wasn't good was Inquisition of Kozilek for the reasons I talked about in the last post. I might keep a Thoughtseize or two in the sideboard though. I would really like try out Simian Spirit Guide and Liliana's Caress so I think the list I will bring next time is this one
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
2 Blood Crypt
4 Dragonskull Summit
2 Mountain
6 Swamp
Creatures
4 Gurmag Angler
Spells
4 Waste Not
4 Faithless Looting
4 Burning Inquiry
4 Dark Deal
3 Dream Salvage
2 Empty the Pits
1 Raven's Crime
4 Murderous Cut
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Liliana's Caress
4 Surgical Extraction
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Pyroclasm
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Darkblast
2 Terminate
3 Lightning Bolt
This is my list:
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Geier Reach Sanitarium
2 island
1 mountain
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
2 swamp
2 watery grave
4 Serum Visions
4 Raven's Crime
4 Burning Inquiry
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Noxious Revival
3 Dream Salvage
4 Liliana's Caress
4 Waste Not
4 Wistful Thinking
3 Kolaghan's Command
2 Damnation
4 Defense Grid
4 Blood Moon
2 Damnation
3 Echoing Truth
I really love this deck it's alot of fun and over powered if you play it in multiplayer games.
I feel the deck needs more Burning Inquiry related cards. We need cards that are cheaper which force opponent to draw and discard. You would think this would be good in a black-blue card, (blue draw, black discard) it's surprising we got it in red.
The win cons are simple, a zombie beat down with Waste Not, or Liliana's Caress, I think it's sufficient because with burning inquiry and serum visions I can cycle through the deck fast. I find most of my wins are with Liliana's Caress, the zombies basically end up chump blocking most of the time to keep me alive.
Anyone else playing a similar style deck as this? I feel if it got one or two key cards it could way more competitive combo.
Collective defiance is very flexible and in combo with caress it can deal a lot of damage. Reforge the soul can be a finisher and ensures that your opponents hand is full which is good when you have caress out.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
The main advantage of my deck right now is burning inquiry and Wistful Thinking force my opponent to draw cards which ensures they have something to discard.
Really all this deck needs is a bigger burning inquiry and it could be made into 2 colors and I think could be Tier 2-competitive. All we need is M19 to develop a bigger burning inquiry which hopefully only cost 2 and then this deck is totally in business.
The way my deck works is similar to 8 rack. In 8 rack you need one of the 8 rack effects to close the game, this deck plays the same way in that you either need Waste Not or Liliana's Caress and you in business. The problem comes 4 turns in when your opponent only has 1-2 cards in their hand, we don't benefit from them having a low card count like 8 Rack, we need more Draw-Discard effects to ensure they always have cards in hand.
Warped Devotion !
And this is nuts. If you add U to the deck you have so many ways to control the board and get rid of problem cards. If the opponent has no cards in hand and you bounce something he has to discard the bounced card.
And you have many tools to mak that work.
Just to name some of them.
I know the deck will play really different, because it will be more of a control than a combo deck, but I think it can work.
You could run isochron sceptre with Boomerang so you can also bounce lands if yo want. And you can chose what they have to discard and make better use of waste not.
Along with that you can play normal discard like thoughtseize, inquisition of kozilek, duress and so on.
Another question is, remand. I think it doesn't trigger warped devotion even if you counter a permanent spell right? This would be very nice. But I think it doesn't work that way.
Maybe I will give it a try if I have time to test it.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
The three colours is giving me some problems with the mana base though. Looking for more ways to get it down to RB.
I didn't try the warped devotion method because it fundamentally change the whole deck from Combo to Control.
4 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Geier Reach Sanitarium
2 mountain
4 Polluted Delta
2 swamp
4 Blackcleave cliffs
SPELLS
3 Raven's Crime
4 Burning Inquiry
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Noxious Revival
3 Dream Salvage
4 Liliana's Caress
4 Waste Not
3 Collective Defiance
3 Dark Deal
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Reforge the soul
2 Gurmag Angler
4 Defense Grid
4 Pyroclasm
4 Anger of the Gods
3 Dreadbore
I'm winning about 50% (15-13) of the competitive matches on MTGO, but I haven't taken it into leagues yet. I guess that is where the real test is. It gets level 3 kills, but if you don't mulligan into a combo piece you can have some pretty dead hands. I've stretched my mana as thin as I'm comfortable given the 6 - 3 drops.
Reforge the soul is great when you draw into it, really sucks in your hand though, I guess those are the trade-offs you take. I'm hoping M19 gives us some love. We need a bigger burning inquiry to be able to tie this deck together.
And you'll notice I got it down to BR.
The deck has kind of strayed away from the "Hyper Delve" this thread is about. it's more so about "Waste Not Combo" but it uses a lot of the same ideas and cards the thread creator used so I'm going to keep posting my updates to this list.
Waste Not is putting up some stiff competition for being my favourite card behind Raven's Crime
but when that happens generally I just reinvest my bulk mana into powering my raven's crime with the lands I just drew.
I considered shadow of the grave, the downside is I just don't want to pay mana for it so kept with noxious revival. Generally I'm using these cards to setup the "go off" turn. Most of the time I discard via burning inquiry or dark deal I don't really miss the cards that get tossed away and I'm very apprehensive about adding more cards like shadow of the grave because it waters down the discard a bit and slows down my clock I find. So generally when i do want a card, most of the time I don't want all of them, I generally just want one single card.
I currently daft, on what could assist ye on your endeavor for greatness.
I wasn't really looking for advice mainly just use the thread to post updates to my progress since I found a good shell in this thread. I think my interest has now come to it's end given my progress.
Does anyone know of any cards in Modern Masters 2 or other recent sets which could help this deck?
4 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Geier Reach Sanitarium
2 Mountain
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Raven's Crime
4 Burning Inquiry
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Noxious Revival
3 Dream Salvage
4 Liliana's Caress
4 Waste Not
3 Collective Defiance
3 Dark Deal
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Reforge the soul
2 Gurmag Angler
I'm searching but I don't think Wizards gave me much love over the last 4 years.
The deck really needed more way to make the opponent draw and discard. (like another burning inquiry). Shucks.
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation