Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern:
DredgeVine EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima Standard:
Hey guys! Haven't checked the thread in a while but I've been playing a lot with the deck. In regards to fetches and possibly becoming Jund, both run into the same problem. Going Jund without the fetches hurts bad. Plus the deck needs a density of mountains. And if you are fetching, you are thinning lands, which (while good in other decks) is very bad for us. In fact the more iterations of Auroras you cast, the better they get. Root maze seems pretty fine but I have found some problems in that a second one is a dead card, it's only pro forming optimally played very early, and many decks will just happen to draw their non fetch lands. Not saying it's unplayable but it's not as good as I initially hoped. I have been experimenting a little with Khalni Heart Expedition. It's 2 mana 2 for 1. A bit delayed but can give you a nice little bit of life after a T3 courser. More testing to come.
Also, I am attending a larger tournament tomorrow and I will be playing this. I'll post the deck list and results later. Wish me luck.
I did some quick crunching to figure out what is the best time to cast Aurora and not fizzle. The graph shows percent to hit 9 >= lands vs Aurora count on a deck with 29 lands, 0 of them fetches and 54 cards remaining in the deck. It turns out the curve kinda S shaped.
To break the 50% mark of hitting 9 or more lands, you need to shuffle back at least 16 cards. But if you get to 20 cards, you reach 90%! So somewhere between 16-20 is a good target when deciding when to cast Aurora.
There are a few cards that weren't mentioned that I think help ramp + increase permanent count: Mwonvuli Acid-Moss - Tron isn't a good match up. This card reduces their permanents by 1, knocks them off tron and ramps you. A solid 2-for-1. Oath of Nissa - It's rare to find permanents that stick around after having an ability that is normally found on a sorcery. 2-for-1 at the cost of G, netting you a land or creature is perfect for deck consistency.
Cards that could use testing: Fists of Ironwood - +3 permanents on the board for 2 mana is the cheapest you can find. (3 mana for 3 tokens is usually the standard) The problem with this card is needing a creature to enchant. Hornet Queen - An amulet sideboard that puts out lots of defenders and permanents. The down side is the cost. Rise of the Hobgoblins - A permanent that sticks around and spits out tokens. It has the upside that you don't pay X until it resolves, so you don't need to worry about being countered. The down side is the RR cost.
Hate to say it, but Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle doesn't work as well as people think in this deck. Say you have 19 total Mountain cards in the deck and you Aurora for 15. You only have a 55% of hitting 5 or more Mountain cards, even lower when you include the % that you need to hit at least one Valakut. 55%! That's terrible when you compare it to Scapeshift. Instead, I'd go mono-green and use:
8 mana to entwine Rude Awakening, you untap all lands and have 16 power on the boards, then use Mosswort Bridge. It works well when you chain Auroras too.
I question cultivate in here over wood elves. The deck already has troubles with aggro, and while I concede the guaranteed +2 cards that don't go away easily is good, the +1 permanent and blocker seems solid vs. quicker clocks. Has any testing been done to substantiate this theory?
This deck looks really sweet and I want to build it. Scapeshift uses Prismatic Omen to make all lands deal damage so maybe it could be considered to make the kill more consistent?
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Modern RGTron UGInfect URStorm WUBRAd Nauseam BRGrishoalbrand URGScapeshift WBGAbzan Company WUBRGAmulet Titan BRGLiving End WGBogles
have you thought about making it a green devotion deck? It's possible it fire off the spell turn 3 without much complications. And a turn 3 PlainsWalker untapping the sprawl land can your bix.
So, I've been testing with Tireless Tracker and HOLY NUGS is this card good. Netting double the permanents with each of our ramp spell, it also can become huge and draw us cards. WHAT ELSE DO YOU NEED? It's not that good when drawn with the Aurora, but who cares when you're drawing 25+ cards, right?
Oath of Nissa also works really well and I plan to test with Nissa, Voice of Zendikar too, seems so good on paper: gives tokens, pump our animated lands, draws tons of cards and gains tons of life. This way we could replace the Valakut finisher which, as edster said, is not that consistent.
I don't really see good targets with Mosswort Bridge to be honest, and Prismatic Omen gets reshuffled with the Aurora so it doesn't really work
I gave Tireless Tracker a try and found it very good. It's body is prone to all kinds of removal, although it does grow big enough to dodge bolts in the late game. The two things it does very well is, as you mentioned, spew out tons of permanents and draws into Aurora or other wincons. I would say it's staple in the deck. The only unknown is how many copies, 3 or 4 and what slot does it replace? I'm running 4 right now in place of Courser of Kruphix and it seems alright vs non-burn.
have you thought about making it a green devotion deck? It's possible it fire off the spell turn 3 without much complications. And a turn 3 PlainsWalker untapping the sprawl land can your bix.
Yep. My current list is a streamlined mono G with a touch of devotion. Only Arbor Elf + Utopia Sprawl are in the main but not Garruk Wildspeaker because we don't want to Aurora without having 10+ draws, so a quick ramp to Aurora is not desirable. Secondly, the meta is way too fast. I played a bo5 with Death's Shadow Jund and they're winning at over 70% of the time. In the right matchup I would play Garruk Wildspeaker; right now he's just fodder for aggro.
The way I see it the deck needs to adapt to the meta, switching in/out certain cards. For example, if you face faster decks:
All 3 of the 4-drops, have some form of interaction and ramp to a fast T4 Primeval Titan, which is crucial for Aurora T5+. (Also, I wanted to highlight that Mwonvuli Acid-Moss is an amazing card for those who haven't tried it.)
Looking at Sakura-Tribe Elder vs Explore, they both are 1-for-1 with the exception is that Explore has the potential to play an untapped land or non-basic. So for the purpose of Aurora permanent count they are equal. Right now Sakura-Tribe Elder wins hugely because of the sac-block that saves much needed life against burn and aggro and also because it interacts better with Oath of Nissa
Needs moar Nykthos. With a thos hand you can be Aurora'ing turn 3 or 4 for like 6 or 7. While crippling the opponent substantially.
That's why I also think old school Garruk should play a part in this. His untap ability is broken and can be fetched with oath.
Hell, it's about time they pushed the animate land strategy with Sylvan Awakening. If you test it, let us know how it does. Rude Awakening was decent after Aurora but not good in any opening hand.
From the recent sets, I like (but haven't tested):
Legion's Landing for the amount of permanents it puts on the field. Could be paired with Cryptolith Rite
Lately, I've been liking the Warp World variant more. I run 4xWarp World and 2-3 Auroras. Being able to put permanents on the field means those EtB effects like Tireless Tracker + seeing all lands EtB, Oath of Nissa, Primeval Titan get immediate effect.
Isn't the problem with Rude Awakening that your lands will have summoning sickness? Sylvan Awakening gives them haste, so once you hit enough to kill your opponent, resolving The Great Aurora is basically a win. I'd probably add 4x See Beyond to shuffle those unwanted cards back in. Or maybe Jace, The Mind Sculptor, but i'd rather keep the deck more 'budget'.
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Modern:
DredgeVine
EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima
Standard:
Also, I am attending a larger tournament tomorrow and I will be playing this. I'll post the deck list and results later. Wish me luck.
To break the 50% mark of hitting 9 or more lands, you need to shuffle back at least 16 cards. But if you get to 20 cards, you reach 90%! So somewhere between 16-20 is a good target when deciding when to cast Aurora.
There are a few cards that weren't mentioned that I think help ramp + increase permanent count:
Mwonvuli Acid-Moss - Tron isn't a good match up. This card reduces their permanents by 1, knocks them off tron and ramps you. A solid 2-for-1.
Oath of Nissa - It's rare to find permanents that stick around after having an ability that is normally found on a sorcery. 2-for-1 at the cost of G, netting you a land or creature is perfect for deck consistency.
Cards that could use testing:
Fists of Ironwood - +3 permanents on the board for 2 mana is the cheapest you can find. (3 mana for 3 tokens is usually the standard) The problem with this card is needing a creature to enchant.
Hornet Queen - An amulet sideboard that puts out lots of defenders and permanents. The down side is the cost.
Rise of the Hobgoblins - A permanent that sticks around and spits out tokens. It has the upside that you don't pay X until it resolves, so you don't need to worry about being countered. The down side is the RR cost.
4 Rude Awakening
8 lands
8 mana to entwine Rude Awakening, you untap all lands and have 16 power on the boards, then use Mosswort Bridge. It works well when you chain Auroras too.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
RGTron
UGInfect
URStorm
WUBRAd Nauseam
BRGrishoalbrand
URGScapeshift
WBGAbzan Company
WUBRGAmulet Titan
BRGLiving End
WGBogles
I gave Tireless Tracker a try and found it very good. It's body is prone to all kinds of removal, although it does grow big enough to dodge bolts in the late game. The two things it does very well is, as you mentioned, spew out tons of permanents and draws into Aurora or other wincons. I would say it's staple in the deck. The only unknown is how many copies, 3 or 4 and what slot does it replace? I'm running 4 right now in place of Courser of Kruphix and it seems alright vs non-burn.
I removed all Rude Awakening and with that all Mosswort Bridge. Seeing Rude Awakening, Primeval Titan and The Great Aurora in my opening hand makes me grit my teeth. The average cmc of the deck was just too high to run Rude.
Let us know how Nissa, Voice of Zendikar / Nissa, Vastwood Seer testing goes.
Yep. My current list is a streamlined mono G with a touch of devotion. Only Arbor Elf + Utopia Sprawl are in the main but not Garruk Wildspeaker because we don't want to Aurora without having 10+ draws, so a quick ramp to Aurora is not desirable. Secondly, the meta is way too fast. I played a bo5 with Death's Shadow Jund and they're winning at over 70% of the time. In the right matchup I would play Garruk Wildspeaker; right now he's just fodder for aggro.
The way I see it the deck needs to adapt to the meta, switching in/out certain cards. For example, if you face faster decks:
+ Solemn Simulacrum
- Mwonvuli Acid-Moss or Garruk Wildspeaker
+ Sakura-Tribe Elder
- Explore
All 3 of the 4-drops, have some form of interaction and ramp to a fast T4 Primeval Titan, which is crucial for Aurora T5+. (Also, I wanted to highlight that Mwonvuli Acid-Moss is an amazing card for those who haven't tried it.)
Looking at Sakura-Tribe Elder vs Explore, they both are 1-for-1 with the exception is that Explore has the potential to play an untapped land or non-basic. So for the purpose of Aurora permanent count they are equal. Right now Sakura-Tribe Elder wins hugely because of the sac-block that saves much needed life against burn and aggro and also because it interacts better with Oath of Nissa
4x Arbor Elf
2x Sakura-Tribe Elder
4x Tireless Tracker
1x Eternal Witness
2x Acidic Slime
4x Primeval Titan
3x Oath of Nissa
4x Utopia Sprawl
Land (28)
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
18x Forest
4x Khalni Garden
1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4x Radiant Fountain
4x Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
4x The Great Aurora
That's why I also think old school Garruk should play a part in this. His untap ability is broken and can be fetched with oath.
From the recent sets, I like (but haven't tested):
I tried swapping the ramp with walls and the deck still worked well. You get more explosive ramp at the cost of being disrupted by creature removal.
Lately, I've been liking the Warp World variant more. I run 4xWarp World and 2-3 Auroras. Being able to put permanents on the field means those EtB effects like Tireless Tracker + seeing all lands EtB, Oath of Nissa, Primeval Titan get immediate effect.