the goldari thug count may be better at 2-of and keep two nether's, but not really noticing and accounting for the non-recurring nature of Greater Gargadon was an important oversight up to then. Although there are other options open to the deck, the 9/7 is a double, albeit slower, vengevine. we were lacking a powerhouse, until the 9/7 Lady Gaga.
the imp is rarely a bad include. The thug is a failsafe for the powerhouse, four would not be required to provide value, and the dredge is only one less. That said, i very much miss the ghost quarters in my list. It seems like a minimum of two ghost quarters is right. I pulled mine for an overabundance of Dryad Arbor; bad play.
The deck is running turn five lately... bit the bullet and ordered a playset of horizon canopy. It needs the draw at will inside of a turn to pop the golgari'ed gargadon from the top so that it can sac out. there are at times not enough returnable creatures in the yard soon enough. may have finagle two of nether traitors back into the deck along with the four thugs. basic lands save lives!
How good is Zombie Infestation? I've been toying around with different dredge and Vengevine lists and have found Lotleth Troll to be fantastic, so I haven't actually bothered to test the aforementioned enchantment yet. I suppose it allows one to discard Bridge from Below, but Zombie Infestation does nothing at all for you in your graveyard.
I'm interested in trying a dredge list with Smallpox and the new Jace.
Its a bigger change than im comfortable with right away but, im going to playtest it to see. Although Zombie infestation is amazing, more paths to greater gargadon would be a quicker game ender.
solution to the non-recurring nature of zombie infestation. makes Phantasmagorian more playable; adds a discard outlet, 6/6 and/or a hand attack. Zombie infestation is strong but, all things should be considered. Dredgevine is more competitive and greater gargadon is a powerhouse. Getting him out in more ways/often is a valid line of inquiry to ponder.
I ordered the unburial rites to playtest, we'll see if its a valid branch to the deck worth looking into further. For 1.50 its harder to try not to than to try. Winning is winning, but winning faster is better.
I have thought about a slight blue splash for desperate ravings. red in the beginning and a single U for flash back s not too bad. worse/different version of burning inquiry but, with the importance of flashback. Dredge + flashback = syenergy!
Golgari Brownscale, Ancient Grudge, Ray of Revelation and Bojuka Bog are in my perspective sideboard as well.
4 imps should be a nice strong dredge element. Desperate Ravings may cost 2cmc but, Thought Scour, though a good card, does not recur thereby introducing a dredge risk. Although i entertained a list without zombie infestation, it would remove a tried and true component from the deck; experimental at best. Entire lines of play would unravel and should be playtested very well before you ran it prime time. I am trying to run out every school of thought and possible combination to make the deck the best that it can be built.
Quick notes:
I've tested Thought Scour and it's okay. Narcomoeba doesn't do much in this list. The deck needs Scalding Tarns.
The deck is 3-0 in matches online, but it wasn't playing tier 1 decks, and I'm not sold on it really. Gargadon is good when you have some Bridges and Bloodghasts in the bin, but 4 is probably too many since it never really feels like an insane card, more of a value card. Jace is okay, but would be better with more payoff spells (Command is a big one, but I'm not running a ton). The list is kind of lacking direction and I'm not sure what to do with it. What I like about the shell is that I can recur any instant, sorcery, or creature, between Jace, Golgari Thug, and Kolaghan's Command.
@NarWil, definitely think you are trying to do too many things that have partial symmetry.
Imo you either run 4x Life from the Loam or 4x Narcomoeba, but not both.
Its also very difficult to run stuff like Kolaghan's Command, Jace and Crab that require a lot of extra steps to get back. I don't think you can even get Command back. If it doesn't have self recursion, it has to be reeeeaallly special, i.e Greater Gargadon.
Dredge from Below, is trying to emulate Legacy Dredge, which is all in on Bridge from Below. Get from 60 cards to 10 in the library as fast as possible while reanimating Narcomoebas and Bloodghast along the way. I think Greater Gargadon is extremely valuable to this strategy. I've adjusted my approach to trying to get one suspended as soon as the opportunity arises. If its milled before I get one in hand, I rely on Golgari Thug to get it back. This deck can't really afford higher cost spells, its Life from the Loam impersonation is Dakmor Salvage. Which does a good job at getting us to atleast 2 mana to cast the Thug.
I don't think you can mix the two without being extremely inefficient.
Especially with the limited Modern dredge resources we have available.
...7) If it weren't for the Bridge from Below, this build would look a lot like Crypt Dredge. Crypt Dredge used Crypt of Agadeem and a bunch of black creature cards in the graveyard, with Life from the Loam and Fatestitcher to generate large amounts of black mana, that were then used to pay for something like Rotting Rats (to clear the way) and Sedraxis Specter, followed by Army of the Damned or Extractor Demon. With Bridge from Below, your deck goes a totally different route. But much of the Dredge shell is the same. Crypt Dredge was always a turn or two too slow, and it was weak to counterspells. Your build seems more resilient, but that Purphoros is similarly weak to counterspells.
I'm glad to see that Gargadon is getting some love from other players! I was originally using that, but ended up cutting red to smooth out my manabase.
So, having been a fan of Dredge and graveyard-based strategies in general, after sifting through the results from the recent nation-wise states tournaments, I stumbled across 2 similar lists, 1 placed 1st in at states and the other, this one, placed 4th. This one focuses on dredging Demigod of Revenge and then either returning it to your hand via Soul of Innistrad and/or simply powering it out via Crypt of Agadeem which, incidentally, can be gotten back out of the GY with Life From the Loam. After initial testing(really just me and my playtesting group having an emergency all-nighter challenge matches) I think we may just have a modern dredge deck that is a serious contender.
A four slot package of utility lands as 1 Dakmor Salvage, 1 Dryad Arbor and 2 horizon canopy would be great. like...
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
4 Ghost Quarter
2 horizon canopy
1 dryad arbor
1 Dakmor Salvage
1 mountain
1 forest
4 Zombie Infestation
4 Bridge from Below
3 Greater Gargadon
Enablers
4 Life from the Loam
4 Darkblast
4 Faithless Looting
4 Raven's Crime
3 Shattered Perception
2 Conflagrate
4 Bloodghast
4 Golgari Thug
The game state advantage of ghost quartering cannot be understated.
I'm interested in trying a dredge list with Smallpox and the new Jace.
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
4 Ghost Quarter
4 horizon canopy
1 dryad arbor
1 mountain
4 Bridge from Below
4 Greater Gargadon
4 Unburial rites
Enablers
4 Life from the Loam
4 Darkblast
4 Faithless Looting
4 Raven's Crime
3 Shattered Perception
1 Conflagrate
4 Bloodghast
4 Golgari Thug
Complete recursion and new lines of play...
Greater Gargadon + Unburial rites thanks to the horizon canopy change...
Greater Gargadon + Golgari Thug again thanks to the horizon canopy change...
Its a bigger change than im comfortable with right away but, im going to playtest it to see. Although Zombie infestation is amazing, more paths to greater gargadon would be a quicker game ender.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
4 Ghost Quarter
4 horizon canopy
1 dryad arbor
1 mountain
4 Bridge from Below
4 Greater Gargadon
4 Unburial rites
Enablers
4 Life from the Loam
4 Darkblast
4 Faithless Looting
4 Raven's Crime
2 Phantasmagorian
4 Bloodghast
4 Golgari Thug
2 Nether traitor
I have thought about a slight blue splash for desperate ravings. red in the beginning and a single U for flash back s not too bad. worse/different version of burning inquiry but, with the importance of flashback. Dredge + flashback = syenergy!
Golgari Brownscale, Ancient Grudge, Ray of Revelation and Bojuka Bog are in my perspective sideboard as well.
Best of luck at FNM!
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
Cant counter a land. can recur endless creatures(i lie, three per turn-ish).
Mortuary Mire + Horizon canopy = GIMME
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Breeding Pool
1 Watery Grave
1 Snow-Covered Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Steam Vents
1 Blood Crypt
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Swamp
1 Stomping Ground
1 Forest
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Mountain
1 Island
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
1 Golgari Thug
1 Life from the Loam
Other Graveyard-fillers (15)
4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 Hedron Crab
4 Faithless Looting
3 Burning Inquiry
Graveyard Payoff (8)
4 Bloodghast
4 Bridge from Below
Other (6)
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Greater Gargadon
3 Ghost Quarter
4 Thoughtseize
2 Golgari Charm
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Darkblast
1 Life from the Loam
Quick notes:
I've tested Thought Scour and it's okay. Narcomoeba doesn't do much in this list. The deck needs Scalding Tarns.
The deck is 3-0 in matches online, but it wasn't playing tier 1 decks, and I'm not sold on it really. Gargadon is good when you have some Bridges and Bloodghasts in the bin, but 4 is probably too many since it never really feels like an insane card, more of a value card. Jace is okay, but would be better with more payoff spells (Command is a big one, but I'm not running a ton). The list is kind of lacking direction and I'm not sure what to do with it. What I like about the shell is that I can recur any instant, sorcery, or creature, between Jace, Golgari Thug, and Kolaghan's Command.
edit:
I think I'll try this next:
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Breeding Pool
1 Watery Grave
1 Snow-Covered Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Steam Vents
1 Blood Crypt
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Swamp
1 Stomping Ground
1 Forest
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Mountain
1 Island
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
2 Golgari Thug
4 Life from the Loam
Other Graveyard-fillers (12)
4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 Hedron Crab
4 Faithless Looting
Graveyard Payoff (8)
4 Bloodghast
4 Bridge from Below
1 Conflagrate
Other (8)
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Greater Gargadon
4 Smallpox
3 Ghost Quarter
4 Thoughtseize
2 Golgari Charm
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Darkblast
1 Life from the Loam
Imo you either run 4x Life from the Loam or 4x Narcomoeba, but not both.
Its also very difficult to run stuff like Kolaghan's Command, Jace and Crab that require a lot of extra steps to get back. I don't think you can even get Command back. If it doesn't have self recursion, it has to be reeeeaallly special, i.e Greater Gargadon.
Blood Loam, and Lootsmith please correct me if I'm wrong, is more of a graveyard value/attrition deck.
It plays more like other Modern Loam decks, but incorporates a Bridge from Below wincon.
Life from the Loam helps fuel cards like Conflagrate, Zombie Infestation, Raven's Crime, Flame Jab, Ghost Quarter and the other value lands. This deck can afford higher cost spells and effects.
Dredge from Below, is trying to emulate Legacy Dredge, which is all in on Bridge from Below. Get from 60 cards to 10 in the library as fast as possible while reanimating Narcomoebas and Bloodghast along the way. I think Greater Gargadon is extremely valuable to this strategy. I've adjusted my approach to trying to get one suspended as soon as the opportunity arises. If its milled before I get one in hand, I rely on Golgari Thug to get it back. This deck can't really afford higher cost spells, its Life from the Loam impersonation is Dakmor Salvage. Which does a good job at getting us to atleast 2 mana to cast the Thug.
I don't think you can mix the two without being extremely inefficient.
Especially with the limited Modern dredge resources we have available.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
If theyd made it a rare... a blue-black horizon canopy would have been sooo great.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
3dam flying and a discard for two mana.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
Here's the Dredge List I've been running:
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Crypt of Agadeem
3 Forest
4 Overgrown Tomb
3 Swamp
4 Woodland Cemetery
Creatures:
4 Demigod of Revenge
4 Extractor Demon
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Golgari Thug
4 Rotting Rats
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Stinkweed Imp
1 Tymaret, the Murder King
1 Gnaw to the Bone
4 Grisly Salvage
4 Life from the Loam
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Golgari Charm
2 Leyline of the Void
2 Nature's Claim
4 Pithing Needle
1 Sever the Bloodline
I'm glad to see that Gargadon is getting some love from other players! I was originally using that, but ended up cutting red to smooth out my manabase.
View on CubeTutor
Draft it!
4 Stinkweed Imp
1 Swamp
4 Golgari Thug
4 Life from the Loam
4 Rotting Rats
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Demigod of Revenge
4 Extractor Demon
4 Crypt of Agadeem
1 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Tymaret, the Murder King
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Blood Crypt
4 Faithless Looting
3 Gnaw to the Bone
4 Nature's Claim
2 Pithing Needle
2 Leyline of the Void
4 Grisly Salvage
The sideboard's pretty janky. It's a work in progress.
View on CubeTutor
Draft it!
4 Demigod of Revenge
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Golgari Thug
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Street Wraith
2 Soul of Innistrad
4 Faithless Looting
3 Life From the Loam
2 Tormenting Voice
1 Gnaw to the Bone
Lands 21
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Crypt of Agadeem
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Stomping Ground
2 Copperline Gorge
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Forest
1 Mountain
Sideboard
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Gnaw to the Bone
2 Lightning Axe
2 Conflagrate
2 Thoughtseize
1 Brain Maggot
1 Dark Blast
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Swamp
It's been performing brutally consistent. Thoughts and ideas? I would probably swap out the Tormenting Voice for Gisly Salvage, but not sure.