Key Tenets Blood Magic; Hurt yourself to win Maximum Recursion; Flashback and return to play effects Loam from the loam + dredge engine
Core:BGR Splash: U
Blood Loam is an all-in dredge zombie engine deck; a hybridization born of modern's version of legacy dredge and Loam Pox. Sedraxis Specter fills the role of Small Pox, in that it is an asymmetrical discard and three damage effect rather than the symmetrical discard, one damage, land destruction effect. This solves the main flaw in Small Pox; when dredged it is dead. Zombie Infestation and Bridge from Below make up the zombie engine that provides the main threats, when combined with Life from the Loam, sac effects and the wildly recursive Bloodghast and Nether Traitor(the Nether Shadow of the deck). In the absence of Dread Return, Cabal Therapy and the blue mana base of legacy, Darkblast and Flame Jab pull double duty as the sac outlets and recurring removal. Those along with Raven's Crime, as a discard outlet, are the self-inflicted wounds that give the deck its name; a nod to Blood Magic. It is a deck that mills itself, discards its own cards, removes its own creatures, sacs its own lands and pays life for its mana... Pain is gain: Self-sacrifice is power.
True and total graveyard interaction; everything in the yard are toys you can play with. What goes in can always come back out, at least once or otherwise affect the game state. Your hand is your hand, but your graveyard is also your hand.
Graveyards hate and board wipes will always be a problem for decks of this nature; graveyard interaction and tokens. But they are exceptionally fun to play, often catch people off guard and gather onlookers.
You've got a cool idea and I like it, although I think there is room for some tuning. My first thought is I feel like you'd want to run a zombie package (gravecrawler, mutavault, lotleth troll) and a free sac outlet (viscera seer?) to turn your bridges on. As you are, you've got no way to ensure your guys die, and you've only got 8.
My second thought is the fragility of bridge. It's risky and very "all in", but it would be interesting to try running 4x main leyline of the void, which as long as it's on the table ensures that your bridges don't leave the graveyard.
My last thought is your dredge package doesn't make sense. Darkblast is great, but more than one copy in the yard is redundant so I wouldn't go past 2. Loam is one of my favorite cards of all time, but if you're going to go all in on zombies, you really need to go for it... I wonder about ditching loam and going for the big dredgers (golgari grave-troll, stinkweed imp) to get as much of your deck in the grave as fast as possible. Free card draw (gitaxian probe, street wraith) can also help you dredge like crazy.
I don't know... all that would make the deck look different, but I think it could be cool.
The all-in zombie engine is the use of life from the loam to supply land card fuel for zombie infestation and the recurring nature of the creatures as fuel for Bridge from below to birth zombies, not the running of zombies for zombies sake. Bridge is a backstop to the flimsy not always in-hand nature of zombie infestation. 12 creatures is pretty high for what they are being used for. Darkblast is the main sac outlet: It is very important that it hit the yard early, perferably to a turn two zombie infestation drop and discard. Street wraith has a proven track record and obvious power as a discard/card source for the dredge theme. But, it does not actually recur; once in the yard it stays there. The deck is, though, a hybrid and not a dredge deck per say. Stinkweed imp is great and dredges harder, but it is harder to get rid of with the recurring card only setup. gravecrawler was actually in the deck until i found the into-play effect of Nether Traitor that meshes very well with Bloodghast. If i were to go up to 16 creatures it would be him. Mutavault is an remarkably great suggestion; definitely missing manlands. That is a near unforgivable omission on my part. I would love to have room for Horizon canopy as a recurrable draw source... But, to run either/or both Ghost Quarter would have to come out. zombie infestation without life from the loam makes a lot less sense. Birthing zombies from abusable mechanics is the effort being put forth here, there are perfectly good and effective dredge decks out there: They are beautiful.
I am waiting on some of the cards to come in to augment the loam deck that im running now. Changes may well be forthcoming. And, I have... no Mutavaults. :'(
The all-in zombie engine is the use of life from the loam to supply land card fuel for zombie infestation and the recurring nature of the creatures as fuel for Bridge from below to birth zombies, not the running of zombies for zombies sake. Bridge is a backstop to the flimsy not always in-hand nature of zombie infestation. 12 creatures is pretty high for what they are being used for. Darkblast is the main sac outlet: It is very important that it hit the yard early, perferably to a turn two zombie infestation drop and discard. Street wraith has a proven track record and obvious power as a discard/card source for the dredge theme. But, it does not actually recur; once in the yard it stays there. The deck is, though, a hybrid and not a dredge deck per say. Stinkweed imp is great and dredges harder, but it is harder to get rid of with the recurring card only setup. gravecrawler was actually in the deck until i found the into-play effect of Nether Traitor that meshes very well with Bloodghast. If i were to go up to 16 creatures it would be him. Mutavault is an remarkably great suggestion; definitely missing manlands. That is a near unforgivable omission on my part. zombie infestation without life from the loam makes a lot less sense. Birthing zombies from abusable mechanics is the effort being put forth here, there are perfectly good and effective dredge decks out there: They are beautiful.
I am waiting on some of the cards to come in to augment the loam deck that im running now. Changes may well be forthcoming. And, I have... no Mutavaults. :'(
a point to note: you've actually only got 8 creatures that work with bridge because sedraxis specter is exiled after being unearthed, which does not trigger bridge.
I hadn't considered darkblast (and flame jab I suppose) as sac outlets. that does make having 4 of them reasonable.
I suspect what you'll find with your list is that it's very mana hungry. Recurring nether traitor for example takes a mana to kill a ghast with darkblast, another to recur it, 2 more to cast it, and yet another to kill it again... so the full loop takes 5 mana to net 2 bridge triggers (which will get you between 2 and 8 2/2 zombies depending on how many bridges you've got in the yard). That is the primary reason I feel you need free sac outlets (rather than darkblast/flame jab alone) and gravecrawler, which recurs for 1 mana rather than 3. At that point of course it becomes hard to justify no vengevine... at which point the question is why not just build traditional dredgevine. I realize that is not what you're trying to accomplish here so perhaps that is not constructive feedback, but there it is.
a point to note: you've actually only got 8 creatures that work with bridge because sedraxis specter is exiled after being unearthed, which does not trigger bridge.
Did not catch that exile effect not being a trigger on sedraxis specter. That is fair enough; making the deck better.
But, your math is off. nether traitor is not hard cast from the hand. Three mana for two 2/2's is not a bad deal. The recurrables are creatures, which, you get use out of before... re-purposing them into zombies from their free corpses. Their reusable free corpses. Another card that sees a fair amount of play, Lingering souls, is a total of five mana for four 1/1's... One might infer from your math that that card is therefore bad. Dredge is a tool to produce a massive graveyard-hand from which to cast your threats and create more, you clearly know this. Why would you hard cast a creature you dont have to in a deck constructed to not force you to?
Zombie Infestation and Life from the loam are an already functioning combination in Loam Pox and Assault Loam that produces three 2/2's for four mana. The only issue with it is that it is not always online. The point of Bridge from below is not a front line effort but a backstop so that in the lack of Zombie Infestation one may still create zombies to block and/or apply pressure upon your opponent.
Very rough draft, but the idea is to do the typical dredging motions, then use Postmortem Lunge to recur Jace or Hangarback. Postmortem Lunge allows you to just pay 2 life and get back Walker, which then dies and triggers Bridge. You can even just cast Walker for zero, have it trigger bridge, then Postmortem Lunge and trigger again.
The other route is to recur Jace and since Postmortem Lunge gives haste you activate and have him transform immediately, negating the exile trigger of Lunge. Then you could use you him has a planeswalker to cast another Lunge bringing back Hangarback Walker to again trigger Bridge.
Again just ideas but I'm sure someone could find a way to make it more elegant.
Other useful interactions could include Dryad Arbor and Life's Legacy. Pay 2 life and cast Lunge to bring back a hasted Dryad Arbor, then cast Life's Legacy and star dredging etc.
Immortal Servitude to bring back Walkers, then recast again with planewalkers Jace.
The Urborg's turn fetches into swamps for the mid- to late game; must keep. The Ghost quarters would have to take up sideboard slots for certain MU's, but the dryad arbor is a free manland that is recurrable with Loam with the important one toughness. That could do well in this deck without a doubt. Removing the last of the mainboard land hate is troubling, though. However, it would create a more focused path and does have nice interaction with both engine pieces; the Darkblast + Bridge from below and the Zombie Infestation + Life from the Loam. The key is keeping everything recursive. If it cant be brought back it doesn't belong. The engine core is the only exception, and it costs the deck 8 slots that fail the dredge test; "if it gets dredged, do I lose it?"
To run some of the cards you are listing above, you would need four grim harvest to follow the path, at all, what i'm working here with this. I have been looking at these cards: Akuta, Born of Ash and Bloodbond March. But, the most interesting card is Shattered Perception; an asymmetrical, RED windfall with flashback. The flashback is double, but flashback none-the-less. THAT, is a dredge bonanza...
The deck is much stronger with additional draw and discard; running three red windfalls for the, up to, triple faithless looting and the discard fireball for sac effects and face burn.
This thread has been very helpful to this theorycrafting process.
Took me awhile but I see what you are going for here, really well thought out! Have you been able to test at all? It just oozes with synergy. Would love to see it in action.
Tymaret is the card that set me on the total recursion path and, to be honest, I am completely infatuated with The Murder King. At first, almost two weeks ago, because I was blinded by wishful thinking; first ability worked from graveyard. *drools* It doesn't. *weeps* Then, when I was reseaching the answers that the Assault Loam thread came up with, because he is a recursive sac outlet version of molten vortex. Tymaret is better than Molten Vortex for this deck, hands down, card for card. The issue is, and has been, space. One is completely doable; -1 Raven's crime because of the recent change to three conflagrate as additional discard routes. Two would really be better, but less than three Raven's crime is a bad idea. The deck is control poor. The second slot is a hard to find. I am half-tempted to just say F-it and run three in a 62-card deck; it's dredge.
The king of murder allows for attacking with and then sac'ing tokens for a double strike effect. Expensive, but as a wincon in some situations it is golden. It is a board presence that must be dealt with. In the yard, he is a free sac outlet that can be discarded to much of the deck for damage or tokens just to allow another free sac. It's a modern-legal version of Cabal Therapy without the awesome hand assault but also, without the exile drawback. As discussed elsewhere, the real issue with the card is the player-only reach; cant bad touch some creatures.
I have not gotten to run it outside of The Forge. I run a Loam deck now and am waiting for the new cards to show up.
509.3a During the declare blockers step, if an attacking creature is removed from combat or a spell or ability causes it to stop being blocked by a blocking creature, the attacking creature is removed from all relevant damage assignment orders. The relative order among the remaining attacking creatures is unchanged.
Correct me if i am wrong as i am still fuzzy on the M10 changes, you can attack, wait for blockers to be declared and vanish the damage that would have killed the opponents blocker by sac'ing the blocked, non-token, attacker to the Murder King in the yard, your Bridge from Below remains active, creating a token zombie. unorthodox, centainly. But, the deck is intentionally backward; hurt yourself, save the enemy blocker. Blood Loam.
Correct me if i am wrong as i am still fuzzy on the M10 changes, you can attack, wait for blockers to be declared and vanish the damage that would have killed the opponents blocker by sac'ing the blocked, non-token, attacker to the Murder King in the yard, your Bridge from Below remains active, creating a token zombie. unorthodox, centainly. But, the deck is intentionally backward; hurt yourself, save the enemy blocker. Blood Loam.
Correct, do it before combat damage.
I have a question about Bridge From Below and Damnation:
Lets say there are creatures on both sides and Bridges in the graveyard, my opponent cast Damnation, can I order the triggers so that I get tokens?
Edit 1: Found out that it is possible if you trigger you creatures dying first.
Edit 2: Can you activate Tymaret, the Murder King's second ability multiple times to sac multiple creatures?
free sac outlet that is outside play and only costs one red to bring it online? Yes, please.
...
502.59 Suspend
502.59a Suspend is a keyword that represents three abilities. The first is a static ability that functions while the card with suspend is in a player's hand. The second and third are triggered abilities that function in the removed-from-the-game zone. "Suspend N-[cost]" means "If you could play this card from your hand, you may pay [cost] and remove it from the game with N time counters on it. This action doesn't use the stack," and "At the beginning of your upkeep, if this card is suspended, remove a time counter from it," and "When the last time counter is removed from this card, if it's removed from the game, play it without paying its mana cost if able. If you can't, it remains removed from the game. If you play a creature spell this way, it gains haste until you lose control of the spell or the permanent it becomes."
502.59b A card is "suspended" if it's in the removed-from-the-game zone, has suspend, and has a time counter on it.
502.59c Playing a spell as an effect of its suspend ability follows the rules for paying alternative costs in rules 409.1b and 409.1f-h.
The combination of bridge from below and Greater Gargadon is really kind of amazing; they are largely outside of play. In the land of abrupt decay, detention sphere / ring of oblivion, and board wipes, this is very powerful. You cant even counter spell the D@** thing until after the tenth time counter is removed. It should also be noted that the card does NOT read "non-token creature." The bridge triggers can pop this 9/7 pretty fast by sac'ing the extras if the game state called for it; a bile blight hit. Graveyard hate hurts dredge no matter what... with Greater Gargadon the attack surface is lessened. hard to answer combo pieces? mmm, mmm, good. I would re-title the thread as "Red Dredge Redemption."
6/7/2013 As the second triggered ability resolves, you must cast the card if able. Timing restrictions based on the card's type are ignored.
6/7/2013 A creature cast using suspend will enter the battlefield with haste. It will have haste until another player gains control of it (or, in some rare cases, gains control of the creature spell itself).
it just gets better and better. Timing restrictions are ignored and it has haste. i'll sac a fetchland to bring in a 9/7, on your turn, and block your siege rhino... no big deal
Lingering souls is something that i have considered; horizon canopy for the draw and the white mana to pay for it. Shattered Perception is a stand-in for dark deal; thematics aside, one can run either. The decision was based on the card disadvantage created by allowing your opponent so much card draw. Any errors were likely caused when I tried to fit the murder king into the deck. I have since replaced that card with Greater Gargadon, which is very much better.
is how the deck sits currently. I have, to be honest, found the deck lacking in card draw. hence the reason i look to horizon canopy. The point of Blood loam is to be able to recur the maximum percentage of the deck as possible to dredge freely. phantasmagorian is a free discard outlet that I have been looking toward, when combined with a land that draws cards it could replace the need of shattered perception altogether. With there being no modern legal cycling lands, our options other than horizon canopy and Mikokoro, Center of the Sea are limited; Viscera Dragger. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth has been underwhelming and was meant as an answer to black mana in the stretch play should the game go on too long.
It looks like you are right on point with the deck. With enough playtesting and tuning we may just find the right mix between dredge and loam. Hybrids are always a balancing act, and rarely done well.
Without dakmor salvage, you'd need more dredge; -4 Nether Traitor, +4 Stinkweed imp to replace the already low dredge count. Conflagrate is a great discard outlet, discarding cards to burn their face is always an amusing play. at $200 a playset Horizon Canopy is a tough sell, but may be an ideal option to increase the amount of non-draw phase draw ability. the fact that it doesnt come into play tapped is the prime reason of its value here. Greater Gargadon is certainly amazing; a missing piece in the modern dredge competitiveness puzzle.
Any playtesting or ideas that you have, dont be shy in posting them. The slightest afterthought in any direction could prove invaluable to Blood Loam and Dredge in general.
Streetmage was addressing a recursion issue with Greater Gargadon being dredged and having no way to get back into play via existing cards in this version of Blood Loam. Golgari thug can put it to the top so that it could be drawn rather than wasting away in the yard uselessly.
Greater Gargadon is important enough to build around. The switch to goldari gives some breathing room on the lands. A couple of basics would be helpful much of the time and with the new fetchable lands in the pipeline, we may be able to chop the amount of self-damage we take by quite a bit.
Key Tenets
Blood Magic; Hurt yourself to win
Maximum Recursion; Flashback and return to play effects
Loam from the loam + dredge engine
Core:B G R Splash: U
**Dragonslayer**
Updated Post-Gargadon Version:
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
4 Ghost Quarter
3 dryad arbor
1 Dakmor Salvage
1 mountain
1 forest
4 Zombie Infestation
4 Bridge from Below
3 Greater Gargadon
Enablers
4 Life from the Loam
4 Darkblast
4 Faithless Looting
4 Raven's Crime
3 Shattered Perception
2 Conflagrate
4 Bloodghast
4 Golgari Thug
Original Idea:
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Dakmor Salvage
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Zombie Infestation
4 Bridge from Below
Enablers
4 Life from the Loam
4 Darkblast
4 Faithless Looting
4 Raven's Crime
2 Flame Jab
4 Sedraxis Specter
4 Bloodghast
4 Nether Traitor
Blood Loam is an all-in dredge zombie engine deck; a hybridization born of modern's version of legacy dredge and Loam Pox. Sedraxis Specter fills the role of Small Pox, in that it is an asymmetrical discard and three damage effect rather than the symmetrical discard, one damage, land destruction effect. This solves the main flaw in Small Pox; when dredged it is dead. Zombie Infestation and Bridge from Below make up the zombie engine that provides the main threats, when combined with Life from the Loam, sac effects and the wildly recursive Bloodghast and Nether Traitor(the Nether Shadow of the deck). In the absence of Dread Return, Cabal Therapy and the blue mana base of legacy, Darkblast and Flame Jab pull double duty as the sac outlets and recurring removal. Those along with Raven's Crime, as a discard outlet, are the self-inflicted wounds that give the deck its name; a nod to Blood Magic. It is a deck that mills itself, discards its own cards, removes its own creatures, sacs its own lands and pays life for its mana... Pain is gain: Self-sacrifice is power.
Strengths:
Creatures: 100% Recurrable
Spells: 100% Recurrable
Lands: 100% Recurrable
Core: Non-recurrable
True and total graveyard interaction; everything in the yard are toys you can play with. What goes in can always come back out, at least once or otherwise affect the game state. Your hand is your hand, but your graveyard is also your hand.
Issues:
The main drawback, as opposed to Loam Pox, is the lessened assault upon the opponents lands. Ghost Quarter is ever important. Crack the earth was a real contender, sadly it does not recur. Cabal Therapy... AHHH! A lack of life gain from the loss of Golgari Brownscale and Siphon Life leaves much to be desired; singletons of either perhaps. The lack of Tasigur, the Golden Fang is unfortunate and the use of Vengeful Pharaoh can actually be counterproductive at times; kills Bridge from Below. Narcomoeba and Stinkweed Imp didn't make the cut; Narcomoeba mainly for space reasons, but also weakly recursive and Stinkweed Imp due to the double Darkblast/Flame Jab problem and the power of the Nether Traitor recursion ability. Young Pyromancer would work well here, but space is at such a premium and he is not recurrable. Abrupt Decay in the board, along with ancient grudge, but otherwise the sideboard up in the air.
Graveyards hate and board wipes will always be a problem for decks of this nature; graveyard interaction and tokens. But they are exceptionally fun to play, often catch people off guard and gather onlookers.
My second thought is the fragility of bridge. It's risky and very "all in", but it would be interesting to try running 4x main leyline of the void, which as long as it's on the table ensures that your bridges don't leave the graveyard.
My last thought is your dredge package doesn't make sense. Darkblast is great, but more than one copy in the yard is redundant so I wouldn't go past 2. Loam is one of my favorite cards of all time, but if you're going to go all in on zombies, you really need to go for it... I wonder about ditching loam and going for the big dredgers (golgari grave-troll, stinkweed imp) to get as much of your deck in the grave as fast as possible. Free card draw (gitaxian probe, street wraith) can also help you dredge like crazy.
I don't know... all that would make the deck look different, but I think it could be cool.
I am waiting on some of the cards to come in to augment the loam deck that im running now. Changes may well be forthcoming. And, I have... no Mutavaults. :'(
a point to note: you've actually only got 8 creatures that work with bridge because sedraxis specter is exiled after being unearthed, which does not trigger bridge.
I hadn't considered darkblast (and flame jab I suppose) as sac outlets. that does make having 4 of them reasonable.
I suspect what you'll find with your list is that it's very mana hungry. Recurring nether traitor for example takes a mana to kill a ghast with darkblast, another to recur it, 2 more to cast it, and yet another to kill it again... so the full loop takes 5 mana to net 2 bridge triggers (which will get you between 2 and 8 2/2 zombies depending on how many bridges you've got in the yard). That is the primary reason I feel you need free sac outlets (rather than darkblast/flame jab alone) and gravecrawler, which recurs for 1 mana rather than 3. At that point of course it becomes hard to justify no vengevine... at which point the question is why not just build traditional dredgevine. I realize that is not what you're trying to accomplish here so perhaps that is not constructive feedback, but there it is.
Did not catch that exile effect not being a trigger on sedraxis specter. That is fair enough; making the deck better.
But, your math is off. nether traitor is not hard cast from the hand. Three mana for two 2/2's is not a bad deal. The recurrables are creatures, which, you get use out of before... re-purposing them into zombies from their free corpses. Their reusable free corpses. Another card that sees a fair amount of play, Lingering souls, is a total of five mana for four 1/1's... One might infer from your math that that card is therefore bad. Dredge is a tool to produce a massive graveyard-hand from which to cast your threats and create more, you clearly know this. Why would you hard cast a creature you dont have to in a deck constructed to not force you to?
Zombie Infestation and Life from the loam are an already functioning combination in Loam Pox and Assault Loam that produces three 2/2's for four mana. The only issue with it is that it is not always online. The point of Bridge from below is not a front line effort but a backstop so that in the lack of Zombie Infestation one may still create zombies to block and/or apply pressure upon your opponent.
18 Lands
Creatures
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug
4 Hangarback Walker
4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Thought Scour
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Postmortem Lunge
2 Immortal Servitude
4 Bridge from Below
Very rough draft, but the idea is to do the typical dredging motions, then use Postmortem Lunge to recur Jace or Hangarback. Postmortem Lunge allows you to just pay 2 life and get back Walker, which then dies and triggers Bridge. You can even just cast Walker for zero, have it trigger bridge, then Postmortem Lunge and trigger again.
The other route is to recur Jace and since Postmortem Lunge gives haste you activate and have him transform immediately, negating the exile trigger of Lunge. Then you could use you him has a planeswalker to cast another Lunge bringing back Hangarback Walker to again trigger Bridge.
Again just ideas but I'm sure someone could find a way to make it more elegant.
Other useful interactions could include Dryad Arbor and Life's Legacy. Pay 2 life and cast Lunge to bring back a hasted Dryad Arbor, then cast Life's Legacy and star dredging etc.
Immortal Servitude to bring back Walkers, then recast again with planewalkers Jace.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
The Urborg's turn fetches into swamps for the mid- to late game; must keep. The Ghost quarters would have to take up sideboard slots for certain MU's, but the dryad arbor is a free manland that is recurrable with Loam with the important one toughness. That could do well in this deck without a doubt. Removing the last of the mainboard land hate is troubling, though. However, it would create a more focused path and does have nice interaction with both engine pieces; the Darkblast + Bridge from below and the Zombie Infestation + Life from the Loam. The key is keeping everything recursive. If it cant be brought back it doesn't belong. The engine core is the only exception, and it costs the deck 8 slots that fail the dredge test; "if it gets dredged, do I lose it?"
To run some of the cards you are listing above, you would need four grim harvest to follow the path, at all, what i'm working here with this. I have been looking at these cards: Akuta, Born of Ash and Bloodbond March. But, the most interesting card is Shattered Perception; an asymmetrical, RED windfall with flashback. The flashback is double, but flashback none-the-less. THAT, is a dredge bonanza...
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
4 dryad arbor
4 Dakmor Salvage
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Zombie Infestation
4 Bridge from Below
Enablers
4 Life from the Loam
4 Darkblast
4 Faithless Looting
4 Raven's Crime
3 Shattered Perception
3 Conflagrate
4 Nether Traitor
Dredge: 12
Discard: 15
Sacrifice: 7
Zombie Generation: 8
Bridge Triggers: 12
Removal: 7
The deck is much stronger with additional draw and discard; running three red windfalls for the, up to, triple faithless looting and the discard fireball for sac effects and face burn.
This thread has been very helpful to this theorycrafting process.
I've been working on a slightly different version and posted it in another thread: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/626980-dredge-from-below. Here it is for those interested:
3 Shivan Reef
3 Darkslick Shores
3 Dakmor Salvage
2 Steam Vents
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Mana Confluence
1 Mountain
Creatures
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Narcomoeba
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
2 Golgari Thug
3 Hangarback Walker
2 Viscera Seer
2 Bloodghast
2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Thought Scour
4 Postmortem Lunge
3 Burning Inquiry
2 Raven's Crime
1 Mystic Retrieval
Enchantments
4 Bridge from Below
4 Waste Not
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Rotting Rats
2 Liliana, Heretical Healer
1 Burning Inquiry
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
The king of murder allows for attacking with and then sac'ing tokens for a double strike effect. Expensive, but as a wincon in some situations it is golden. It is a board presence that must be dealt with. In the yard, he is a free sac outlet that can be discarded to much of the deck for damage or tokens just to allow another free sac. It's a modern-legal version of Cabal Therapy without the awesome hand assault but also, without the exile drawback. As discussed elsewhere, the real issue with the card is the player-only reach; cant bad touch some creatures.
I have not gotten to run it outside of The Forge. I run a Loam deck now and am waiting for the new cards to show up.
Correct me if i am wrong as i am still fuzzy on the M10 changes, you can attack, wait for blockers to be declared and vanish the damage that would have killed the opponents blocker by sac'ing the blocked, non-token, attacker to the Murder King in the yard, your Bridge from Below remains active, creating a token zombie. unorthodox, centainly. But, the deck is intentionally backward; hurt yourself, save the enemy blocker. Blood Loam.
I have a question about Bridge From Below and Damnation:
Lets say there are creatures on both sides and Bridges in the graveyard, my opponent cast Damnation, can I order the triggers so that I get tokens?
Edit 1: Found out that it is possible if you trigger you creatures dying first.
Edit 2: Can you activate Tymaret, the Murder King's second ability multiple times to sac multiple creatures?
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
But, you can discard him to something else if it is instant speed, right?
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
4 dryad arbor
4 Dakmor Salvage
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Zombie Infestation
4 Bridge from Below
Enablers
4 Life from the Loam
4 Darkblast
4 Faithless Looting
3 Raven's Crime
2 Shattered Perception
3 Conflagrate
4 Nether Traitor
3 Tymaret, the murder king
Dredge: 12
Discard: 13
Sacrifice: 10
Zombie Generation: 8
Bridge Triggers: 15
Removal: 7
To be honest, because this is dredge i may run 63 cards.
+1 Shattered Perception, +1 Raven's Crime. +1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth which is exactly what i took out to run three Tymaret, the murder king.
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
4 dryad arbor
4 Dakmor Salvage
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Zombie Infestation
4 Bridge from Below
3 Greater Gargadon
Enablers
4 Life from the Loam
4 Darkblast
4 Faithless Looting
3 Raven's Crime
2 Shattered Perception
3 Conflagrate
4 Nether Traitor
it just gets better and better. Timing restrictions are ignored and it has haste. i'll sac a fetchland to bring in a 9/7, on your turn, and block your siege rhino... no big deal
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
4 dryad arbor
4 Dakmor Salvage
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Core
4 Zombie Infestation
4 Bridge from Below
3 Greater Gargadon
4 Life from the Loam
4 Darkblast
4 Faithless Looting
3 Raven's Crime
3 Shattered Perception
3 Conflagrate
4 Bloodghast
4 Nether Traitor
4 Waste Not
3 Liliana's Caress
4 Dark Deal
4 burning inquiry
Toppers talk of transformative sideboards got me thinking about how close the waste not decks are to Blood Loam...
-4 Bloodghast, -4 Nether Traitor, -4 Bridge from Below, -3 Greater Gargadon... becomes
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
4 dryad arbor
4 Dakmor Salvage
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Core
4 Zombie Infestation
4 Waste Not
3 Liliana's Caress
4 Life from the Loam
4 Darkblast
4 Faithless Looting
4 Dark Deal
4 burning inquiry
3 Raven's Crime
3 Shattered Perception
3 Conflagrate
4 Bloodghast
4 Nether Traitor
4 Bridge from Below
3 Greater Gargadon
Interesting... pumpable howling mine mechanic on a 4/3 flyer for cmc 4?
Lingering souls is something that i have considered; horizon canopy for the draw and the white mana to pay for it. Shattered Perception is a stand-in for dark deal; thematics aside, one can run either. The decision was based on the card disadvantage created by allowing your opponent so much card draw. Any errors were likely caused when I tried to fit the murder king into the deck. I have since replaced that card with Greater Gargadon, which is very much better.
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
4 dryad arbor
4 Dakmor Salvage
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Zombie Infestation
4 Bridge from Below
3 Greater Gargadon
Enablers
4 Life from the Loam
4 Darkblast
4 Faithless Looting
4 Raven's Crime
2 Shattered Perception
2 Conflagrate
4 Nether Traitor
is how the deck sits currently. I have, to be honest, found the deck lacking in card draw. hence the reason i look to horizon canopy. The point of Blood loam is to be able to recur the maximum percentage of the deck as possible to dredge freely. phantasmagorian is a free discard outlet that I have been looking toward, when combined with a land that draws cards it could replace the need of shattered perception altogether. With there being no modern legal cycling lands, our options other than horizon canopy and Mikokoro, Center of the Sea are limited; Viscera Dragger. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth has been underwhelming and was meant as an answer to black mana in the stretch play should the game go on too long.
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
1 dryad arbor
4 horizon canopy
4 Dakmor Salvage
4 Zombie Infestation
4 Bridge from Below
3 Greater Gargadon
Enablers
4 Life from the Loam
4 Darkblast
4 Faithless Looting
4 Raven's Crime
3 phantasmagorian
4 Nether Traitor
This is where my thoughts are going... more draw, more free outlets, more focus.
Turn one: fetch for blood crypt, suspend Greater Gargadon
Turn two: fetch for Overgrown Tomb, play zombie infestation dump hand
Turn three: dredge and/or raven's crime lock
Turn four: cycle creatures for bridge from below triggers and/or sac out everything to Greater Gargadon
or is the draw consistency problem better solved by a small splash of blue?
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
1 watery grave
4 horizon canopy
4 Dakmor Salvage
4 Zombie Infestation
4 Bridge from Below
3 Greater Gargadon
Enablers
4 Life from the Loam
4 Darkblast
4 Faithless Looting
3 Raven's Crime
4 desperate ravings
4 Nether Traitor
Without dakmor salvage, you'd need more dredge; -4 Nether Traitor, +4 Stinkweed imp to replace the already low dredge count. Conflagrate is a great discard outlet, discarding cards to burn their face is always an amusing play. at $200 a playset Horizon Canopy is a tough sell, but may be an ideal option to increase the amount of non-draw phase draw ability. the fact that it doesnt come into play tapped is the prime reason of its value here. Greater Gargadon is certainly amazing; a missing piece in the modern dredge competitiveness puzzle.
Any playtesting or ideas that you have, dont be shy in posting them. The slightest afterthought in any direction could prove invaluable to Blood Loam and Dredge in general.
How do you recur him?
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
4 dryad arbor
4 Dakmor Salvage
1 mountain
4 Zombie Infestation
4 Bridge from Below
3 Greater Gargadon
Enablers
4 Life from the Loam
4 Darkblast
4 Faithless Looting
4 Raven's Crime
2 Shattered Perception
2 Conflagrate
4 Bloodghast
4 Golgari Thug
Greater Gargadon is important enough to build around. The switch to goldari gives some breathing room on the lands. A couple of basics would be helpful much of the time and with the new fetchable lands in the pipeline, we may be able to chop the amount of self-damage we take by quite a bit.