Agreed, for standard it will be a monster because of the format being a lot slow and more midrangey. But I cannot reiterate this enough, in modern the magic number is 3 UNLESS you are playing some kind of mana ramp deck. We have 1 ally that does that so it is really not worth it, also we cant even chord of calling because our creatures are way to important to convoke.
Also I am play testing how 1 boseiju, who shelters all plays in my modern ally deck. I really want it just so that CoCo cannot be countered.
Stellar logic. All decks that will ever be tier 1 or 2 have already been discovered. Might as well lock up the forum here and stop brewing everyone. Format solved.
...in modern the magic number is 3 UNLESS you are playing some kind of mana ramp deck.
This is simply not true. There are decks that set that limit, but there are plenty of cards at 4cc or better played in modern every day in tier decks. People seem to want it to be true, but it's just not. If it fits your build then it fits.
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Modern UB Tezzerator UBW Gifts B 8Rack
Legacy RB Goblins
@ Exatraz - Quoting this for the win. Seriously this is the in depth analysis I was talking about! Absolutely hit the nail on the head as far as waiting it out right now. It all depends what kind of allies we are going to see pop up. I also agree that a 1 R ally is way more likely than any 1 or even 2 U allies in this set. IF we do get a 1 R ally I can completely get behind a Naya ally deck, but right now between the massive lack of sideboard talk and the limited impact red has on allies I just don't see it happening. Of course can change in the near future very easily but right now Naya looks to be the weakest. And see I don't even care that you said you preferred black over blue because you backed it up with reasons. Reasons I frankly did not consider until now about it having the lowest risk attached to it, as well as the high risk attached to blue. I think that new drana looks playable (more so than anything else I have seen), and happens to be in black which bodes well for your angle of approach. However that legendary creature tag is a big of a downer.
PS if you want a card like Spellstutter Sprite maybe look at running a couple of Kira, Great Glass-Spinner. Its not an ally which is why personally I would be very hesitant to run it, but it works with coco and gives us a little big of a safety net with allies.
@Ramosgay - Yeah I agree with the vial vs company debate. 1 works just great, 2 works fine as well. It depends on how many allotted spots you have for spells, creatures, and land. I run 31 creatures so while I see the immediate early game benefits of aether vial, I really don't need the vial because at turn 3/4 your deck is on autopilot and you have the allies/land to do what you need to.
Thanks for your compliments, I try to take the most analytical route possible when evaluating cards. You may have mistook what I was going for with referencing Spellstutter Sprite, I was saying that if they give us a card (call it Spellstutter Ally) with flash and it countered target spell with cmc<the number of allies you control, I would totally move to Bant.
I agree that Drana looks good and I'll probably include it as a maybe a 2 of in the deck though I will have to play test it.
I actually took my deck to a tournament last night so I will give you my decklist, results and opinions now:
Tonight was just weird. My tournament scene is pretty high end (I have played 1 jank deck and 1 tier 2 deck in the past 5 tournaments [all 4 rounders] and the rest have all bee tier 1) but the crazies were out tonight (including me I guess, and yea my sideboard is jank until the deck itself gets tested out). Anyway onto the matches:
Round 1 (Junk) 2-0 (1-0 overall):
Roflstomp might be the wrong word but this has been one of the few times since I played elves where I have forced someone to look at my board and go "How big is he now? What turn is it?" anyway Game 1 (on the play): He uses hand disruption early but I have all vanilla allies in hand so that didn't bother me. He pathed my T1 Hada and dismembered my t2 Survivalist (taking 2 to do so) but I just kept curving and dropping threats. He couldnt answer me after a while and we proceeded to game 2. This game was a lot more explosive than the last one because I resolved T1 Hardened Scales T2 Survivalist T3 Hada, Bojuka Brigand (Yay survivalist for 7 turn 3) he played Liliana and I saced the Brigand T4 I cast CoCo and found evangel and another ally swing for leathal. All in all I think these jund/junk matchups could go in our favor because they have no favorable board sweeper against us.
Round 2 (Mono U Control) 0-2 (1-1 overall):
So yeah, this deck was weird. Mono blue with 2/2 Ninja that lets you draw a card when he hits, Delvers, a ton of counter spells, Clique and other weird jank like Time Warps. Worst part was he used Aetherspouts and every bounce imaginable. Not good for a deck reliant on +1/+1 counters. Game 2 I kept a 1 lander (that had Hardened Scales, Hada, Survivalist, Survivalist, Bojuka Brigand, Bojuka Brigand and a Temple Garden). I proceed to draw no lands the rest of the game. He bounces T2 Hada, counters it turn 3 bounces my land with cryptic t4, and Cliques t5 (actually letting me draw, still no land) and I just get beat into the face.
Round 3 (Grixis Twin) 0-2 [barely] (1-2):
Game 1 I curved out nicely, pathed his first 2 Exarchs (I was stuck on a plains and Cavern of souls for lands 2 paths and an Abrupt decay in hand. I was able to play my allies with the 2 drop mana dork though). I get him down to 1 before he flashes in pestermite and I have no path left in hand (just staring at the Abrupt Decay I can't play because I am stuck on 2 lands). He splinter twin's and wins the game (GRRR.. screw you twin). Next game, my 7 and 6 card hands are 1 landers that were DEFINITELY unplayable. 5 Card was keepable if not ideal... until I drew 3 lands in a row and without removal in hand he got the T4 win. No CoCo in either game which would have sealed game 1 and probably aided game 2. I think this is a fine matchup because I HAVE the answers, I just didnt draw them. So is my luck with Twin.
Round 4 (Goblins) 2-1 (Overall 2-2):
Game 1 I got fantastic Hardened Scales curve off and beat him down with Protection from red and a 12/12 and a 10/10 on turn 4 (because of dork casting CoCo Turn 3 EOT my turn drop 3 more allies swing lethal). Game 2 he got 2 Goblin Grenades (yay 10 damage to the face after bushwacking turn 3) I was also hardup on lands this game. Game 3 Opening hand had Leyline and a decent curve. Grinded out the win because of Ondu gaining me enough life and playing CoCo when he swung in for damage and procing protection to make it a blowout.
All in all the deck definately felt explosive even if I didn't face the typical matchups I think we do really well against (ie those who think Pyroclasm will save them). My biggest issues was how many hands I had to pitch back because of inadequate lands. Additionally, Mirror Entity never really shined so I think I am cutting it to go up to 22 lands. Hopefully that 1 extra land with help me on that front. I could go up 2 4 Harabaz but he does nothing aside from give you mana (he is also easily bolted, not to use the dies to bolt argument but if I had a bolt and had to choose the 3/3 or the mana dork and I see you miss a land drop... well I might go after the mana dork). If we were running vial (and not CoCo) I think the mana distribution would be fine because you can drop vial and still play out 2 threats a turn. With CoCo I think we need to get to 4 mana consistently. As for March From the Tomb its 5 cost makes in unappealing and I think it is only worth it if you get 3 or more dudes out of it. I haven't been a fan of rally or return to the ranks either. The biggest issue I see with this card for us is that the only matchups we will want it in are ones that board sweep us consistently (using Wrath of God, Damnation or Supreme Verdict) and decks like that aren't all that prevalent in Modern currently, instead we get pyroclasm and Anger of the Gods, which this deck thrives against because it essentially makes them a 1 for 1 almost always.
Anyway, I know my sideboard will need some work. Abrupt decay is great but I am wondering if I should just use Dromoka's Command or possible Abzan Charm? Probably still want the Abrupt Decays at least sideboarded. I think the luxury of Junk Allies might be that we can sideboard into a more midrange controlish deck for matchups we don't want to just slam sideways for (I think Affinity might be one of those matchups, Twin possibly because we always want to have an answer to T4 "Twin and Win".
@ Sled_Dog - Yeah there are plenty played across the format as a whole, however all the major ones are never played at cost. Elves convoke + ramp into Craterhoof Behemoth, griselbrand is played from the graveyard, Tasigur and Angler have delver, primeval titan has a deck built around playing as many lands as possible and nothing else. And the decks that run 4cc or more also are more typical than not super midrange like azban and uw control. They have single removals up to 3cc, which are hard enough to do with. Then once you reach past that point they have cards that just prove to be a problem with no removal (which red does not have at all btw).
This isn't to say you can't start splashing 4cc+ allies, but you will have to most certainly cut the number of allies you are running and give yourself more removal. These "bigger" allies really aren't even scary in terms of p/t and you need to make sure they don't have something like dragonlord ojutaisiege rhino or 2 tarmogoyfs waiting for you.
Stellar logic. All decks that will ever be tier 1 or 2 have already been discovered. Might as well lock up the forum here and stop brewing everyone. Format solved.
@ Sled_Dog - Yeah there are plenty played across the format as a whole, however all the major ones are never played at cost. Elves convoke + ramp into Craterhoof Behemoth, griselbrand is played from the graveyard, Tasigur and Angler have delver, primeval titan has a deck built around playing as many lands as possible and nothing else. And the decks that run 4cc or more also are more typical than not super midrange like azban and uw control. They have single removals up to 3cc, which are hard enough to do with. Then once you reach past that point they have cards that just prove to be a problem with no removal (which red does not have at all btw).
This isn't to say you can't start splashing 4cc+ allies, but you will have to most certainly cut the number of allies you are running and give yourself more removal. These "bigger" allies really aren't even scary in terms of p/t and you need to make sure they don't have something like dragonlord ojutaisiege rhino or 2 tarmogoyfs waiting for you.
And when you can drop guys and have a 7/7 on turn 3 swinging in for damage, that tends to be the better strategy tan play the 3/4 haster who might get you some dudes.
@Exatraz - nice deck list for sure. Abrupt Decay is such a huge benefit in splashing back to the point where I tested it a bunch last night. It is nice to have a bit more removal than just Path to Exile I did miss the counters which help against midrange~esque decks, but it is also a different style of deck. I cut my 4 jwari shapeshifter for Bojuka Brigand, and my 3 halimar excavators for 3 decays. Overall liked it better than red. Tied with bant right now imo, the main difference being the risks in respective decks as you said before.
As for sideboard running Seal of Primordium is one answer for Splinter decks, also another great card I found last night while digging for black sideboard items was Dash Hopes which may be worth looking into for the board.
Yeah, I think I am going to run a couple Sorin, Solemn Visitors in the deck tonight at FNM over Ondu (Just because I can and want to see if I like the lifelink side of lifegain over immediate from Ondu... also acts as a placeholder when I playtest for new Gideon possibly). I think Dash Hopes is too situational (because they have to be unwilling to lose 5 life and not have another counterspell). Seal of primordium is good and a possibility but I almost this that our answers should be broader (like Dormoka and Abrupt Decay) so we can adapt them to whatever situation we find ourselves in.
Agree with you about the card being unpredictable, it is never good to give them a choice as to what they want to do. Plus splinter twin is the only enchantment we need to worry about, considering aura hexproof is a weaker version of our deck without the number of lords
Stellar logic. All decks that will ever be tier 1 or 2 have already been discovered. Might as well lock up the forum here and stop brewing everyone. Format solved.
Agree with you about the card being unpredictable, it is never good to give them a choice as to what they want to do. Plus splinter twin is the only enchantment we need to worry about, considering aura hexproof is a weaker version of our deck without the number of lords
Maybe Blood Moon considering how many non basics we run and the fact we need WW for at least 1 of our 2 drops. I think Dromoka Command is good in that instance because it can protect 1 of your guys or your face by blanking a burn spell, it can pump an ally, you can use your ally to kill another one and it can also be used when you need the opponent to sacrifice an enchantment. I definitely like Dromoka Command I just dont own 2 currently (I think I have 1 somewhere amongst my stuff). I really think our sideboard will be heavy on answers for things like I am considering adding planeswalkers (new Giddy/Sorin), 4x Dromoka Command and 2x Abrupt Decay into the board and just push some matchups to the midgame. Since we dont have to worry about sweepers hitting all our allies (probably take out Ondu, Mana Dorks and evangel for 8 slots in those matchups? who knows I really have to get a feel for how the deck plays against the different archetypes)
...in modern the magic number is 3 UNLESS you are playing some kind of mana ramp deck.
This is simply not true. There are decks that set that limit, but there are plenty of cards at 4cc or better played in modern every day in tier decks. People seem to want it to be true, but it's just not. If it fits your build then it fits.
@ Sled_Dog - Yeah there are plenty played across the format as a whole, however all the major ones are never played at cost. Elves convoke + ramp into Craterhoof Behemoth, griselbrand is played from the graveyard, Tasigur and Angler have delver, primeval titan has a deck built around playing as many lands as possible and nothing else. And the decks that run 4cc or more also are more typical than not super midrange like azban and uw control. They have single removals up to 3cc, which are hard enough to do with. Then once you reach past that point they have cards that just prove to be a problem with no removal (which red does not have at all btw).
This isn't to say you can't start splashing 4cc+ allies, but you will have to most certainly cut the number of allies you are running and give yourself more removal. These "bigger" allies really aren't even scary in terms of p/t and you need to make sure they don't have something like dragonlord ojutaisiege rhino or 2 tarmogoyfs waiting for you.
I think he is talking about 4cmc more than 6 or 8cmc creatures. A creature with good stats and a powerful effect in a specific deck should not be discarded just because its cmc is higher than 3, even when running company.Cards like Master of waves, Siege rhino, Huntmaster of the fells, Olivia voldaren, Restoration angel and Linvala, keeper of silence are perfectly powerful cmc4 cards that are casted in decks with no ramp or no dorks. Even if you take a look at the recent slivers deck, that plays 4 vials, 4 company and 2 interactive spells(very similar to what the recent succesful ally decks have been playing in terms of non-creature spells), plays Telekinetic sliver and Sliver hivelord because they are good in the matchups some of their 3- cmc creatures aren't.
I've bee brewing this for a couple of weeks and stumbled across this by chance. I like whats been going on here. Another consideration is descendant's path. Yes I realize we don't want too many non-creature spells with Coco but it's really good here. Between me and my brother we've both played casual ally decks since zendikar came out. His is a bant version mine is Gruul. I really like the bant, blue opens up the shapeshifter which is really good.
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern:
DredgeVine EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima Standard:
I've bee brewing this for a couple of weeks and stumbled across this by chance. I like whats been going on here. Another consideration is descendant's path. Yes I realize we don't want too many non-creature spells with Coco but it's really good here. Between me and my brother we've both played casual ally decks since zendikar came out. His is a bant version mine is Gruul. I really like the bant, blue opens up the shapeshifter which is really good.
Hi and welcome,
My brother and I have too been playing casual with allies since we bought the preconstructed decks back when zendikar was realeased. We tried descendants' path long ago, liked it a lot, but found out that it does not work when you have no allies on the battlefield, which could happen if facing a heavy removal/disruptive decks. It is a cool card though, that improves when running a playset of mutavaults, but one of the weaknesses of this deck it that relies too heavily on having other allies on the battlefield, and that's something the thread has been working on, adding company and discarding veteran warleader or discussing about the usefulness of akoum battlesinger or the risks of Jwari shapeshifter
Im curious on why you're playing naya instead of gruul. Hada freeblade and Kazandu blademaster are the best allies we have so far.
I've bee brewing this for a couple of weeks and stumbled across this by chance. I like whats been going on here. Another consideration is descendant's path. Yes I realize we don't want too many non-creature spells with Coco but it's really good here. Between me and my brother we've both played casual ally decks since zendikar came out. His is a bant version mine is Gruul. I really like the bant, blue opens up the shapeshifter which is really good.
Hi and welcome,
My brother and I have too been playing casual with allies since we bought the preconstructed decks back when zendikar was realeased. We tried descendants' path long ago, liked it a lot, but found out that it does not work when you have no allies on the battlefield, which could happen if facing a heavy removal/disruptive decks. It is a cool card though, that improves when running a playset of mutavaults, but one of the weaknesses of this deck it that relies too heavily on having other allies on the battlefield, and that's something the thread has been working on, adding company and discarding veteran warleader or discussing about the usefulness of akoum battlesinger or the risks of Jwari shapeshifter
Im curious on why you're playing naya instead of gruul. Hada freeblade and Kazandu blademaster are the best allies we have so far.
I think Gideon will be what you want Descendants path to be, an ally ETB every turn. I dont even know if I will ever +1 him and unless the board is 100% clear and I feel like he will be safe to crash in for damage. All I want for christmas is a Hada freeblade in any color and/or a 1-2 drop that gives all other allies Haste and/or a Spellstutter Ally (flash and counters spell cmc< allies you control) and/or a 3 drop that gives all allies counters when it enters (probably all other).
Yeah I'm going to be switching my deck. I've been brewing a deck literally nearly identical to the ones on this thread that's why I can't get over I found this. If your looking for another 1 drop ally there is mothdust changeling? It has no abilities but he counts as an ally.
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern:
DredgeVine EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima Standard:
Yeah I'm going to be switching my deck. I've been brewing a deck literally nearly identical to the ones on this thread that's why I can't get over I found this. If your looking for another 1 drop ally there is mothdust changeling? It has no abilities but he counts as an ally.
the problem being is you want your over drop to benefit from all subsequent ally drops.
All I want for christmas is a Hada freeblade in any color and/or a 1-2 drop that gives all other allies Haste and/or a Spellstutter Ally (flash and counters spell cmc< allies you control) and/or a 3 drop that gives all allies counters when it enters (probably all other).
So much this. I would also take harmonic sliver ally variant. Any 1 or 2 drop worth its salt will just plug the hole that is currently where we're playing things like mirror entity, battlesinger or shapeshifter. That will make our deck more consistent for sure, but it won't plug the bigger hole in allies which is being able to interact. I do like black for abrupt decay, I just don't like 3 colour aggro deck. I'm comfortable running path and dromoka's command in straight GW and honestly it still gets awkward at times with needing GW between the caverns and ghost quarters and paths.
Spellstutter ally is almost definitely too strong unless it costs 3, and then its probably too weak With so many other triggers going off flash is extra strong here - unlike spellstutter where faeries don't really trigger much off other faeries besides spellstutter (and i guess theiving sprite if you want to go there but nobody in modern does).
I really had my hopes up for something like this:
R Goblin Legendary
1/1
Rally: target ally you control gains haste.
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Yay we get a Miracle Magic Christmas Sliver Mana Land for Allies in Ally Encampment!! Didn't think I needed it but will take it anyway! Now just give me my 1 drop already.
Yay we get a Miracle Magic Christmas Sliver Mana Land for Allies in Ally Encampment!! Didn't think I needed it but will take it anyway! Now just give me my 1 drop already.
I said it last week as if we were never going to get it but, yay!
I think it's a great addition, not only for the mana fixing it provides in order to be able to run 3 or more colours, but also for the relevant ability it has. It is great for blanking a removal spell, and also bouncing EOT Kabira evangel, Akoum battlesinger or even Jwari shapeshifter to vial / cast it in our turn is very sexy imo.
Yay we get a Miracle Magic Christmas Sliver Mana Land for Allies in Ally Encampment!! Didn't think I needed it but will take it anyway! Now just give me my 1 drop already.
I said it last week as if we were never going to get it but, yay!
I think it's a great addition, not only for the mana fixing it provides in order to be able to run 3 or more colours, but also for the relevant ability it has. It is great for blanking a removal spell, and also bouncing EOT Kabira evangel, Akoum battlesinger or even Jwari shapeshifter to vial / cast it in our turn is very sexy imo.
Certainly helps our cause. I am starting to have a different opinion after some playtesting with March from the Tomb. It certainly isn't a maindeck but could definately be a sideboard option against the GBx or Grixis control decks. All that said, that is only if we don't get a Rally haster, because that would make Rally the Ancestors still the optimum pick as I'd love to have a backup game plan of trade off my allies and then Rally to win. It would probably make our burn matchup even better because I'd be less wary of blocking into a blowout. That would also open up self mill options. Also I finally got to abuse Hardened Scales in game 2 against a twin deck with Scooze. Man them scooze beats so good when you have T2 spellskite in play (and he didn't draw any relevant answers and by the time he did I had answers lined up.
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern:
DredgeVine EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima Standard:
Stellar logic. All decks that will ever be tier 1 or 2 have already been discovered. Might as well lock up the forum here and stop brewing everyone. Format solved.
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern:
DredgeVine EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima Standard:
This was something I cobbled together suggestions?
Running collected company in the sideboard looks really odd. I would also cut on veteral warleaders and add the new 1BB vampire ally, it should be given a try. Appart from that, the creature count seems too low.
In the abzan build that nightsoiled posted I would rather play immortal servitude instead of march from the tomb. Given that you already are in bw it shouldn't be too hard getting it casted.
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Also I am play testing how 1 boseiju, who shelters all plays in my modern ally deck. I really want it just so that CoCo cannot be countered.
This is simply not true. There are decks that set that limit, but there are plenty of cards at 4cc or better played in modern every day in tier decks. People seem to want it to be true, but it's just not. If it fits your build then it fits.
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
Thanks for your compliments, I try to take the most analytical route possible when evaluating cards. You may have mistook what I was going for with referencing Spellstutter Sprite, I was saying that if they give us a card (call it Spellstutter Ally) with flash and it countered target spell with cmc<the number of allies you control, I would totally move to Bant.
I agree that Drana looks good and I'll probably include it as a maybe a 2 of in the deck though I will have to play test it.
I actually took my deck to a tournament last night so I will give you my decklist, results and opinions now:
4x Hada Freeblade
4x Bojuka Brigand
4x Oran-Rief Survivalist
4x Kabira Evangel
4x Kazandu Blademaster
2x Harabaz Druid
2x Ondu Cleric
1x Mirror Entity
Non-Creature Spells(14):
4x Hardened Scales
2x Abrupt Decay
4x Collected Company
4x Path to Exile
4x Windswept Heath
2x Flooded Straind
4x Temple Garden
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Godless Shrine
2x Cavern of Souls
3x Plains
2x Forest
1x Swamp
4x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Spellskite
1x Chameleon Colossus
1x Stony Silence
2x Chord of Calling
1x Kataki, War's Wage
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Rest in Peace
Tonight was just weird. My tournament scene is pretty high end (I have played 1 jank deck and 1 tier 2 deck in the past 5 tournaments [all 4 rounders] and the rest have all bee tier 1) but the crazies were out tonight (including me I guess, and yea my sideboard is jank until the deck itself gets tested out). Anyway onto the matches:
Round 1 (Junk) 2-0 (1-0 overall):
Roflstomp might be the wrong word but this has been one of the few times since I played elves where I have forced someone to look at my board and go "How big is he now? What turn is it?" anyway Game 1 (on the play): He uses hand disruption early but I have all vanilla allies in hand so that didn't bother me. He pathed my T1 Hada and dismembered my t2 Survivalist (taking 2 to do so) but I just kept curving and dropping threats. He couldnt answer me after a while and we proceeded to game 2. This game was a lot more explosive than the last one because I resolved T1 Hardened Scales T2 Survivalist T3 Hada, Bojuka Brigand (Yay survivalist for 7 turn 3) he played Liliana and I saced the Brigand T4 I cast CoCo and found evangel and another ally swing for leathal. All in all I think these jund/junk matchups could go in our favor because they have no favorable board sweeper against us.
Round 2 (Mono U Control) 0-2 (1-1 overall):
So yeah, this deck was weird. Mono blue with 2/2 Ninja that lets you draw a card when he hits, Delvers, a ton of counter spells, Clique and other weird jank like Time Warps. Worst part was he used Aetherspouts and every bounce imaginable. Not good for a deck reliant on +1/+1 counters. Game 2 I kept a 1 lander (that had Hardened Scales, Hada, Survivalist, Survivalist, Bojuka Brigand, Bojuka Brigand and a Temple Garden). I proceed to draw no lands the rest of the game. He bounces T2 Hada, counters it turn 3 bounces my land with cryptic t4, and Cliques t5 (actually letting me draw, still no land) and I just get beat into the face.
Round 3 (Grixis Twin) 0-2 [barely] (1-2):
Game 1 I curved out nicely, pathed his first 2 Exarchs (I was stuck on a plains and Cavern of souls for lands 2 paths and an Abrupt decay in hand. I was able to play my allies with the 2 drop mana dork though). I get him down to 1 before he flashes in pestermite and I have no path left in hand (just staring at the Abrupt Decay I can't play because I am stuck on 2 lands). He splinter twin's and wins the game (GRRR.. screw you twin). Next game, my 7 and 6 card hands are 1 landers that were DEFINITELY unplayable. 5 Card was keepable if not ideal... until I drew 3 lands in a row and without removal in hand he got the T4 win. No CoCo in either game which would have sealed game 1 and probably aided game 2. I think this is a fine matchup because I HAVE the answers, I just didnt draw them. So is my luck with Twin.
Round 4 (Goblins) 2-1 (Overall 2-2):
Game 1 I got fantastic Hardened Scales curve off and beat him down with Protection from red and a 12/12 and a 10/10 on turn 4 (because of dork casting CoCo Turn 3 EOT my turn drop 3 more allies swing lethal). Game 2 he got 2 Goblin Grenades (yay 10 damage to the face after bushwacking turn 3) I was also hardup on lands this game. Game 3 Opening hand had Leyline and a decent curve. Grinded out the win because of Ondu gaining me enough life and playing CoCo when he swung in for damage and procing protection to make it a blowout.
All in all the deck definately felt explosive even if I didn't face the typical matchups I think we do really well against (ie those who think Pyroclasm will save them). My biggest issues was how many hands I had to pitch back because of inadequate lands. Additionally, Mirror Entity never really shined so I think I am cutting it to go up to 22 lands. Hopefully that 1 extra land with help me on that front. I could go up 2 4 Harabaz but he does nothing aside from give you mana (he is also easily bolted, not to use the dies to bolt argument but if I had a bolt and had to choose the 3/3 or the mana dork and I see you miss a land drop... well I might go after the mana dork). If we were running vial (and not CoCo) I think the mana distribution would be fine because you can drop vial and still play out 2 threats a turn. With CoCo I think we need to get to 4 mana consistently. As for March From the Tomb its 5 cost makes in unappealing and I think it is only worth it if you get 3 or more dudes out of it. I haven't been a fan of rally or return to the ranks either. The biggest issue I see with this card for us is that the only matchups we will want it in are ones that board sweep us consistently (using Wrath of God, Damnation or Supreme Verdict) and decks like that aren't all that prevalent in Modern currently, instead we get pyroclasm and Anger of the Gods, which this deck thrives against because it essentially makes them a 1 for 1 almost always.
Anyway, I know my sideboard will need some work. Abrupt decay is great but I am wondering if I should just use Dromoka's Command or possible Abzan Charm? Probably still want the Abrupt Decays at least sideboarded. I think the luxury of Junk Allies might be that we can sideboard into a more midrange controlish deck for matchups we don't want to just slam sideways for (I think Affinity might be one of those matchups, Twin possibly because we always want to have an answer to T4 "Twin and Win".
This isn't to say you can't start splashing 4cc+ allies, but you will have to most certainly cut the number of allies you are running and give yourself more removal. These "bigger" allies really aren't even scary in terms of p/t and you need to make sure they don't have something like dragonlord ojutai siege rhino or 2 tarmogoyfs waiting for you.
And when you can drop guys and have a 7/7 on turn 3 swinging in for damage, that tends to be the better strategy tan play the 3/4 haster who might get you some dudes.
Yeah, I think I am going to run a couple Sorin, Solemn Visitors in the deck tonight at FNM over Ondu (Just because I can and want to see if I like the lifelink side of lifegain over immediate from Ondu... also acts as a placeholder when I playtest for new Gideon possibly). I think Dash Hopes is too situational (because they have to be unwilling to lose 5 life and not have another counterspell). Seal of primordium is good and a possibility but I almost this that our answers should be broader (like Dormoka and Abrupt Decay) so we can adapt them to whatever situation we find ourselves in.
Maybe Blood Moon considering how many non basics we run and the fact we need WW for at least 1 of our 2 drops. I think Dromoka Command is good in that instance because it can protect 1 of your guys or your face by blanking a burn spell, it can pump an ally, you can use your ally to kill another one and it can also be used when you need the opponent to sacrifice an enchantment. I definitely like Dromoka Command I just dont own 2 currently (I think I have 1 somewhere amongst my stuff). I really think our sideboard will be heavy on answers for things like I am considering adding planeswalkers (new Giddy/Sorin), 4x Dromoka Command and 2x Abrupt Decay into the board and just push some matchups to the midgame. Since we dont have to worry about sweepers hitting all our allies (probably take out Ondu, Mana Dorks and evangel for 8 slots in those matchups? who knows I really have to get a feel for how the deck plays against the different archetypes)
I think he is talking about 4cmc more than 6 or 8cmc creatures. A creature with good stats and a powerful effect in a specific deck should not be discarded just because its cmc is higher than 3, even when running company.Cards like Master of waves, Siege rhino, Huntmaster of the fells, Olivia voldaren, Restoration angel and Linvala, keeper of silence are perfectly powerful cmc4 cards that are casted in decks with no ramp or no dorks. Even if you take a look at the recent slivers deck, that plays 4 vials, 4 company and 2 interactive spells(very similar to what the recent succesful ally decks have been playing in terms of non-creature spells), plays Telekinetic sliver and Sliver hivelord because they are good in the matchups some of their 3- cmc creatures aren't.
Modern:
DredgeVine
EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima
Standard:
Hi and welcome,
My brother and I have too been playing casual with allies since we bought the preconstructed decks back when zendikar was realeased. We tried descendants' path long ago, liked it a lot, but found out that it does not work when you have no allies on the battlefield, which could happen if facing a heavy removal/disruptive decks. It is a cool card though, that improves when running a playset of mutavaults, but one of the weaknesses of this deck it that relies too heavily on having other allies on the battlefield, and that's something the thread has been working on, adding company and discarding veteran warleader or discussing about the usefulness of akoum battlesinger or the risks of Jwari shapeshifter
Im curious on why you're playing naya instead of gruul. Hada freeblade and Kazandu blademaster are the best allies we have so far.
I think Gideon will be what you want Descendants path to be, an ally ETB every turn. I dont even know if I will ever +1 him and unless the board is 100% clear and I feel like he will be safe to crash in for damage. All I want for christmas is a Hada freeblade in any color and/or a 1-2 drop that gives all other allies Haste and/or a Spellstutter Ally (flash and counters spell cmc< allies you control) and/or a 3 drop that gives all allies counters when it enters (probably all other).
Modern:
DredgeVine
EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima
Standard:
So much this. I would also take harmonic sliver ally variant. Any 1 or 2 drop worth its salt will just plug the hole that is currently where we're playing things like mirror entity, battlesinger or shapeshifter. That will make our deck more consistent for sure, but it won't plug the bigger hole in allies which is being able to interact. I do like black for abrupt decay, I just don't like 3 colour aggro deck. I'm comfortable running path and dromoka's command in straight GW and honestly it still gets awkward at times with needing GW between the caverns and ghost quarters and paths.
Spellstutter ally is almost definitely too strong unless it costs 3, and then its probably too weak With so many other triggers going off flash is extra strong here - unlike spellstutter where faeries don't really trigger much off other faeries besides spellstutter (and i guess theiving sprite if you want to go there but nobody in modern does).
I really had my hopes up for something like this:
R Goblin Legendary
1/1
Rally: target ally you control gains haste.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
I said it last week as if we were never going to get it but, yay!
I think it's a great addition, not only for the mana fixing it provides in order to be able to run 3 or more colours, but also for the relevant ability it has. It is great for blanking a removal spell, and also bouncing EOT Kabira evangel, Akoum battlesinger or even Jwari shapeshifter to vial / cast it in our turn is very sexy imo.
Certainly helps our cause. I am starting to have a different opinion after some playtesting with March from the Tomb. It certainly isn't a maindeck but could definately be a sideboard option against the GBx or Grixis control decks. All that said, that is only if we don't get a Rally haster, because that would make Rally the Ancestors still the optimum pick as I'd love to have a backup game plan of trade off my allies and then Rally to win. It would probably make our burn matchup even better because I'd be less wary of blocking into a blowout. That would also open up self mill options. Also I finally got to abuse Hardened Scales in game 2 against a twin deck with Scooze. Man them scooze beats so good when you have T2 spellskite in play (and he didn't draw any relevant answers and by the time he did I had answers lined up.
Creatures(25):
1 Mirror Entity
1 Hero of Goma Fada
3 Sea gate Loremaster
4 Hada Freeblade
4 Kazandu Blademaster
4 Harabaz druid
4 Jwari Shapeshifter
4 Oran-rief survivalist
4 Collected company
3 Genesis wave
4 Path to Exile
3 Mana leak
Modern:
DredgeVine
EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima
Standard:
I don't think you will live long enough. You want to kill turn 4, or as close to it as possible
This was something I cobbled together suggestions?
Modern:
DredgeVine
EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima
Standard:
Running collected company in the sideboard looks really odd. I would also cut on veteral warleaders and add the new 1BB vampire ally, it should be given a try. Appart from that, the creature count seems too low.