We just got another 5 drop spoiled yay! Resolute Blademaster yet another card completely useless in modern....I must say moved from concerned to worried with how the allies are currently shaping up.
Stellar logic. All decks that will ever be tier 1 or 2 have already been discovered. Might as well lock up the forum here and stop brewing everyone. Format solved.
I think there's potential with Munda, Ambush Leader. The 4 cmc puts him in contention with the new Gideon and Talus Paladin for any 4cmc slots, and the fact that he has haste and is outside Bolt range is a huge plus. Sure he doesn't get counters but his tutoring combined with Collected Company means we should be able to find just about any Ally we need.
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Collecting Timbermare, hit me up if you have any for trade
I think there's potential with Munda, Ambush Leader. The 4 cmc puts him in contention with the new Gideon and Talus Paladin for any 4cmc slots, and the fact that he has haste and is outside Bolt range is a huge plus. Sure he doesn't get counters but his tutoring combined with Collected Company means we should be able to find just about any Ally we need.
The issue with this is that in a typical creature deck we want to run 28+ creatures. I really don't think you need to sort your allies in a specific order. For certain it is nice to pull the ally you need at any given moment, however by turn 4 you most likely have what you need out, or some semblance of it. Also that 4 drop is just way too expensive for modern, 3 is always the magic number for tempo/aggro decks (unless you are delving, or using a card like chord of calling to pull out a bigger creature). Allies is all about playing as many as you can, and for the price of 1 munda, ambush leader you can play 2-3 allies depending on your hand.
Stellar logic. All decks that will ever be tier 1 or 2 have already been discovered. Might as well lock up the forum here and stop brewing everyone. Format solved.
I think there's potential with Munda, Ambush Leader. The 4 cmc puts him in contention with the new Gideon and Talus Paladin for any 4cmc slots, and the fact that he has haste and is outside Bolt range is a huge plus. Sure he doesn't get counters but his tutoring combined with Collected Company means we should be able to find just about any Ally we need.
The issue with this is that in a typical creature deck we want to run 28+ creatures. I really don't think you need to sort your allies in a specific order. For certain it is nice to pull the ally you need at any given moment, however by turn 4 you most likely have what you need out, or some semblance of it. Also that 4 drop is just way too expensive for modern, 3 is always the magic number for tempo/aggro decks (unless you are delving, or using a card like chord of calling to pull out a bigger creature). Allies is all about playing as many as you can, and for the price of 1 munda, ambush leader you can play 2-3 allies depending on your hand.
I don't agree with you about Munda. A 3/4 hasty ally is meh and would never be played in the deck, but the trigger is very relevant. It's not only about sorting your allies, it's about avoiding bad topdecks like vial, hardened scales or lands that do nothing in the lategame or against grindy decks, when you more need gas. He provides a scry4 to be able to get creatures EVERY time an ally enters the battlefield. I would rather play him than Gideon, given that he can't be countered if you are running cavern (which everyone probably is) and can be vialed.
About the legendary vampire, I think she is powerful, but the BB cost could hurt, specially when black is the least of the colours considered to play in an ally deck. Hoping to get an ally land (if the eldrazi can have, why can't we ?)
I think there's potential with Munda, Ambush Leader. The 4 cmc puts him in contention with the new Gideon and Talus Paladin for any 4cmc slots, and the fact that he has haste and is outside Bolt range is a huge plus. Sure he doesn't get counters but his tutoring combined with Collected Company means we should be able to find just about any Ally we need.
The issue with this is that in a typical creature deck we want to run 28+ creatures. I really don't think you need to sort your allies in a specific order. For certain it is nice to pull the ally you need at any given moment, however by turn 4 you most likely have what you need out, or some semblance of it. Also that 4 drop is just way too expensive for modern, 3 is always the magic number for tempo/aggro decks (unless you are delving, or using a card like chord of calling to pull out a bigger creature). Allies is all about playing as many as you can, and for the price of 1 munda, ambush leader you can play 2-3 allies depending on your hand.
I agree that he is too expensive to see play in the deck (and I'd rather have Gideon at this point for the "Guaranteed" Ally every turn. All in all, yes currently we are getting a lot of Rare allies that arent great (go figure we dont need them anyway as most of the "good allies" are uncommon or common anyway), we did get the lifelinker reduced to a 3 drop (which is fantastic news, even if we still end up using Ondu over him). The Veteren Warleader I am meh on. I'd actually be ok with him if you could give him haste (Unlike Elves where I usually CoCo EoT so I can untap and hopefully have wombo combo with Archdruid and Ezuri with minimal time for the opponent to answer it, with allies I tend to CoCo on my turn before combat and want to hit any ally so it increases my damage output that turn (Evangel is almost always welcome so I can just swing through blocks)). As it stands I am slightly disappointed so far but I do have this gut feeling that we will get a couple more cheap ones printed but to the rest of the magic community they will be "unexciting" and simple and thus spoiled last. Look at Hada. 0/1 for W that gets a single +1/+1 when he enters. If they gave us another 1 mana ally at common with no other fancy ability but +1/+1 counters, the rest of the magic community will yawn and move on. Those are the cards we thrive on though. We don't NEED fancy abilities like trample, lifelink and such. We NEED basic boring get bigger creatures. I really wish the Vampire was just a basic lifelinker that got counters, or at least drained an opponent (even if it was just life loss and no life gain) for each ally you control. (Like Shaman of the Pack but Ally... and better)
I think there's potential with Munda, Ambush Leader. The 4 cmc puts him in contention with the new Gideon and Talus Paladin for any 4cmc slots, and the fact that he has haste and is outside Bolt range is a huge plus. Sure he doesn't get counters but his tutoring combined with Collected Company means we should be able to find just about any Ally we need.
The issue with this is that in a typical creature deck we want to run 28+ creatures. I really don't think you need to sort your allies in a specific order. For certain it is nice to pull the ally you need at any given moment, however by turn 4 you most likely have what you need out, or some semblance of it. Also that 4 drop is just way too expensive for modern, 3 is always the magic number for tempo/aggro decks (unless you are delving, or using a card like chord of calling to pull out a bigger creature). Allies is all about playing as many as you can, and for the price of 1 munda, ambush leader you can play 2-3 allies depending on your hand.
I don't agree with you about Munda. A 3/4 hasty ally is meh and would never be played in the deck, but the trigger is very relevant. It's not only about sorting your allies, it's about avoiding bad topdecks like vial, hardened scales or lands that do nothing in the lategame or against grindy decks, when you more need gas. He provides a scry4 to be able to get creatures EVERY time an ally enters the battlefield. I would rather play him than Gideon, given that he can't be countered if you are running cavern (which everyone probably is) and can be vialed.
About the legendary vampire, I think she is powerful, but the BB cost could hurt, specially when black is the least of the colours considered to play in an ally deck. Hoping to get an ally land (if the eldrazi can have, why can't we ?)
I am personally running Abzan Allies because it gives me access to another 2 drop in Bojuka Brigand and so I don't have too much of a problem with BB, which vampire are you talking about? I have only see the 1WB ally that is a vampire and the awful 7 drop. Also I think we need to move away from Champion if we are able since he isn't an actual ally and I feel his Psuedo Ally synergy isn't enough to keep him in the deck post BFZ release, even if that means we dont have as many 1 drops (I hope we get a Black, White or Green 1 drop personally).
(Side note you brought up: Why the hell do Eldrazi (King of REALLY expensive creatures) get cheap creatures and Allies dont!!! GRRR as I said before, I am expecting the ones we want to be spoiled towards the end as "filler commons" like most of the ones we play now.)
I think there's potential with Munda, Ambush Leader. The 4 cmc puts him in contention with the new Gideon and Talus Paladin for any 4cmc slots, and the fact that he has haste and is outside Bolt range is a huge plus. Sure he doesn't get counters but his tutoring combined with Collected Company means we should be able to find just about any Ally we need.
The issue with this is that in a typical creature deck we want to run 28+ creatures. I really don't think you need to sort your allies in a specific order. For certain it is nice to pull the ally you need at any given moment, however by turn 4 you most likely have what you need out, or some semblance of it. Also that 4 drop is just way too expensive for modern, 3 is always the magic number for tempo/aggro decks (unless you are delving, or using a card like chord of calling to pull out a bigger creature). Allies is all about playing as many as you can, and for the price of 1 munda, ambush leader you can play 2-3 allies depending on your hand.
I don't agree with you about Munda. A 3/4 hasty ally is meh and would never be played in the deck, but the trigger is very relevant. It's not only about sorting your allies, it's about avoiding bad topdecks like vial, hardened scales or lands that do nothing in the lategame or against grindy decks, when you more need gas. He provides a scry4 to be able to get creatures EVERY time an ally enters the battlefield. I would rather play him than Gideon, given that he can't be countered if you are running cavern (which everyone probably is) and can be vialed.
About the legendary vampire, I think she is powerful, but the BB cost could hurt, specially when black is the least of the colours considered to play in an ally deck. Hoping to get an ally land (if the eldrazi can have, why can't we ?)
I am personally running Abzan Allies because it gives me access to another 2 drop in Bojuka Brigand and so I don't have too much of a problem with BB, which vampire are you talking about? I have only see the 1WB ally that is a vampire and the awful 7 drop. Also I think we need to move away from Champion if we are able since he isn't an actual ally and I feel his Psuedo Ally synergy isn't enough to keep him in the deck post BFZ release, even if that means we dont have as many 1 drops (I hope we get a Black, White or Green 1 drop personally).
(Side note you brought up: Why the hell do Eldrazi (King of REALLY expensive creatures) get cheap creatures and Allies dont!!! GRRR as I said before, I am expecting the ones we want to be spoiled towards the end as "filler commons" like most of the ones we play now.)
Kalastria 1BB
Creature- Vampire Ally
Flying, First Strike
When " deals combat damage to an opponent, put a +1/+1 counter on each attacking creature you control.
2/3
-She has the art from the Game Day playmat
Ah cool. She is alright. I do not like that she is "boltable" but if she gets in once she could become a huge problem. Would be really nice if her ability was a "rally" ability (like when she or another ally you control deals combat damage to a player she gets a counter) but oh well. I do like the evasion and First strike though.
Ah cool. She is alright. I do not like that she is "boltable" but if she gets in once she could become a huge problem. Would be really nice if her ability was a "rally" ability (like when she or another ally you control deals combat damage to a player she gets a counter) but oh well. I do like the evasion and First strike though.
I think she is cool, since first strike allows the rest of the attackers get the +1/+1 before they do the damage if she connects in the air
I think there's potential with Munda, Ambush Leader. The 4 cmc puts him in contention with the new Gideon and Talus Paladin for any 4cmc slots, and the fact that he has haste and is outside Bolt range is a huge plus. Sure he doesn't get counters but his tutoring combined with Collected Company means we should be able to find just about any Ally we need.
The issue with this is that in a typical creature deck we want to run 28+ creatures. I really don't think you need to sort your allies in a specific order. For certain it is nice to pull the ally you need at any given moment, however by turn 4 you most likely have what you need out, or some semblance of it. Also that 4 drop is just way too expensive for modern, 3 is always the magic number for tempo/aggro decks (unless you are delving, or using a card like chord of calling to pull out a bigger creature). Allies is all about playing as many as you can, and for the price of 1 munda, ambush leader you can play 2-3 allies depending on your hand.
I don't agree with you about Munda. A 3/4 hasty ally is meh and would never be played in the deck, but the trigger is very relevant. It's not only about sorting your allies, it's about avoiding bad topdecks like vial, hardened scales or lands that do nothing in the lategame or against grindy decks, when you more need gas. He provides a scry4 to be able to get creatures EVERY time an ally enters the battlefield. I would rather play him than Gideon, given that he can't be countered if you are running cavern (which everyone probably is) and can be vialed.
About the legendary vampire, I think she is powerful, but the BB cost could hurt, specially when black is the least of the colours considered to play in an ally deck. Hoping to get an ally land (if the eldrazi can have, why can't we ?)
I don'rt run aether vial, I cut those in place of 3 halimar excavators and an extra land. I found that with the addition of CoCo you didn't really need the vial. The vial emptied out my hand a little too quick for my linking, running bant I do have come counters and such in my board so I never want to have an empty hand. Also I find that it is really hard to take this deck late game regardless of what you drop man (if you are playing 8rack, Jeskai Control or UW control we lose late game regardless of what we play) which is why it is best to maximize efficiency early game (its why this is an aggro deck, an aggro deck that stomps on merfolk's face in my playtests might I add)
Stellar logic. All decks that will ever be tier 1 or 2 have already been discovered. Might as well lock up the forum here and stop brewing everyone. Format solved.
Ah cool. She is alright. I do not like that she is "boltable" but if she gets in once she could become a huge problem. Would be really nice if her ability was a "rally" ability (like when she or another ally you control deals combat damage to a player she gets a counter) but oh well. I do like the evasion and First strike though.
I think she is cool, since first strike allows the rest of the attackers get the +1/+1 before they do the damage if she connects in the air
Yeah its nifty for sure. and being able to add counters to ALL your (attacking) creatures is actually important if you want to bring the ones that don't naturally get +1/+1 counters out of bolt range.
So far allies is barely standard viable. Feels like they designed allies as a limited tribe.
While we do have a big chunk of spoilers incoming, the last half of them are going to be common fodder, so I feel your concern. Then again, they can't print a super lord in the first set of a block can they?
What's funny about Blademaster is that even if I played a 5cmc creature in modern allies, it would be Thundermaw over this guy.
So far allies is barely standard viable. Feels like they designed allies as a limited tribe.
While we do have a big chunk of spoilers incoming, the last half of them are going to be common fodder, so I feel your concern. Then again, they can't print a super lord in the first set of a block can they?
What's funny about Blademaster is that even if I played a 5cmc creature in modern allies, it would be Thundermaw over this guy.
But as I said briefly, common fodder is what we actually could use. Just give me a 1 drop in White/Green/Black/Red (in that order of preference) and I think we will all come out very happy. I will take another 2 drop as well. Pretty much unless it has an ability that blows me away (and I can't think of what I would actually want at this point), just give me +1/+1 counters. (Maybe something that when it enters it puts +1/+1 counters on each ally you control).
@Exatraz: Completely agree in the need of more +1/+1 counters, specially in the 1-2cmc slot, since it would ease our manabase. Atm, Bokuja brigand and Jwari shapeshifter play that role, but they have notable downsides.
@tennisbro: I don't understand your points:
1- You say you don't want to reach the late game, therefore end the game asap, but you don't run vial, which is an accelerator, because it empties your hand too quick. The win condition of an aggro ally deck (see below) is killing with damage dealt by creatures. The more creatures we can deploy in the early-mid game, the faster we will kill. Emptying our hand early from creatures is actually maximizing efficiency in the early game.
2- You state that the deck needs to play aggro style (which I agree), but then you add 3 Halimar excavator, which appart from not being an aggresive ally, will bring the lategame you don't want to reacch earlier than it should come.
Maybe if you posted your list I could figure out your version, and understand how it plays.
I'm not saying that the deck should play the lategame. I am stating that cards that give us creatures, like company or munda are good for us, specially against decks playing removal, disruption and counterspells, and inevitably we will reach a mid-late game when facing any of those decks. Gideon fits in the same category, but not being protected by cavern is a great donwside.
My list was already posted in the thread you just gotta go find the post.
1) Just because I don't play vial doesn't mean the deck doesn't play quick, the deck does not really need aether vial because of our collected company. The reason I don't want an empty hand is because of my counter spells such as negate and soft removal vapor snag. I want them to think twice before playing a anger of the gods. Also with aether vial it is a dead draw late game, I would rather pull a spell or creature in its place which is why I got rid of it and added the halimar excavators in. Also as an additional bonus to their milling ability, they trigger other allies abilities which is what makes this deck so bomb. (same reason I added in 2 mutavaults in but have not updated list yet)
1.5) halimar excavators provide an answer to ensnaring bridge which 8rack runs and is one of the problem decks for allies. 2ndly if you jwari shapeshifter into another halimar excavator turn 3, milling does not become a late game option, it becomes an immediate threat.
2) Delve + vapor snag = LoL
Stellar logic. All decks that will ever be tier 1 or 2 have already been discovered. Might as well lock up the forum here and stop brewing everyone. Format solved.
My list was already posted in the thread you just gotta go find the post.
1) Just because I don't play vial doesn't mean the deck doesn't play quick, the deck does not really need aether vial because of our collected company. The reason I don't want an empty hand is because of my counter spells such as negate and soft removal vapor snag. I want them to think twice before playing a anger of the gods. Also with aether vial it is a dead draw late game, I would rather pull a spell or creature in its place which is why I got rid of it and added the halimar excavators in. Also as an additional bonus to their milling ability, they trigger other allies abilities which is what makes this deck so bomb. (same reason I added in 2 mutavaults in but have not updated list yet)
1.5) halimar excavators provide an answer to ensnaring bridge which 8rack runs and is one of the problem decks for allies. 2ndly if you jwari shapeshifter into another halimar excavator turn 3, milling does not become a late game option, it becomes an immediate threat.
2) Delve + vapor snag = LoL
My answer for Ensnaring Bridge has been 2x Abrupt Decays (again playing Abzan, I'd consider going 4 colors for the Clone and Flier but its still meh to me to add. Just like red is Meh with its 2 drop, if only its artifact destroyer was <3cmc then I'd be in love with it. Additionally I have seen lists run Natures Claim in the board which I do like for matchups like tron so you can kill their turn 1 maps. I don't run Vial currently because as you said, dead draw late game and they are $40 a piece and I felt didnt add enough to the deck to warrant the purchase. I will say, after having watched a 5 color Ally video earlier, I would consider adding them back in if we decide to remove CoCo for a "better" 4 drop should we find one and decide that vial is the way we want to go.
1) Just because I don't play vial doesn't mean the deck doesn't play quick, the deck does not really need aether vial because of our collected company. The reason I don't want an empty hand is because of my counter spells such as negate and soft removal vapor snag. I want them to think twice before playing a anger of the gods. Also with aether vial it is a dead draw late game, I would rather pull a spell or creature in its place which is why I got rid of it and added the halimar excavators in. Also as an additional bonus to their milling ability, they trigger other allies abilities which is what makes this deck so bomb. (same reason I added in 2 mutavaults in but have not updated list yet)
If the deck curves out, it indeeds plays quick without the need of a vial. Adding vial just makes it even faster and more resilent to counterspells. Hardened scales is also a bad topdeck, yet you are playing it with only 12 + 4(shapeshifters) creatures that get counters, but I think both are worth the risk, since having any of them in our starting hand makes the match easier.
1.5) halimar excavators provide an answer to ensnaring bridge which affinity runs and is one of the problem decks for allies. 2ndly if you jwari shapeshifter into another halimar excavator turn 2, milling does not become a late game option, it becomes an immediate threat.
I see your point here against ensnaring bridge, but against affinity you might as well run stony silence or creeping corrosion, if they are playing bridge, which is not very common in current lists.
True, but still it is better to let them work out the delve instead of fueling it, since they will always cast the big creatures with counter / removal backup, to be able to answer any of your threats.
My list was already posted in the thread you just gotta go find the post.
1) Just because I don't play vial doesn't mean the deck doesn't play quick, the deck does not really need aether vial because of our collected company. The reason I don't want an empty hand is because of my counter spells such as negate and soft removal vapor snag. I want them to think twice before playing a anger of the gods. Also with aether vial it is a dead draw late game, I would rather pull a spell or creature in its place which is why I got rid of it and added the halimar excavators in. Also as an additional bonus to their milling ability, they trigger other allies abilities which is what makes this deck so bomb. (same reason I added in 2 mutavaults in but have not updated list yet)
1.5) halimar excavators provide an answer to ensnaring bridge which 8rack runs and is one of the problem decks for allies. 2ndly if you jwari shapeshifter into another halimar excavator turn 3, milling does not become a late game option, it becomes an immediate threat.
2) Delve + vapor snag = LoL
My answer for Ensnaring Bridge has been 2x Abrupt Decays (again playing Abzan, I'd consider going 4 colors for the Clone and Flier but its still meh to me to add. Just like red is Meh with its 2 drop, if only its artifact destroyer was <3cmc then I'd be in love with it. Additionally I have seen lists run Natures Claim in the board which I do like for matchups like tron so you can kill their turn 1 maps. I don't run Vial currently because as you said, dead draw late game and they are $40 a piece and I felt didnt add enough to the deck to warrant the purchase. I will say, after having watched a 5 color Ally video earlier, I would consider adding them back in if we decide to remove CoCo for a "better" 4 drop should we find one and decide that vial is the way we want to go.
I still think that vial and company don't get on well with each other, and that one should take one or the other, but it seems it is ok to run them together, just take a look at the last sliver deck that runs both. The thing is that running both does not give us much space to run any form of interaction, but still we can make a better use of vial than slivers because of all the ETB abilites.
Nature's claim is great because of Blood Moon, Tron, Affinity and other tricky matchups.
1) Just because I don't play vial doesn't mean the deck doesn't play quick, the deck does not really need aether vial because of our collected company. The reason I don't want an empty hand is because of my counter spells such as negate and soft removal vapor snag. I want them to think twice before playing a anger of the gods. Also with aether vial it is a dead draw late game, I would rather pull a spell or creature in its place which is why I got rid of it and added the halimar excavators in. Also as an additional bonus to their milling ability, they trigger other allies abilities which is what makes this deck so bomb. (same reason I added in 2 mutavaults in but have not updated list yet)
If the deck curves out, it indeeds plays quick without the need of a vial. Adding vial just makes it even faster and more resilent to counterspells. Hardened scales is also a bad topdeck, yet you are playing it with only 12 + 4(shapeshifters) creatures that get counters, but I think both are worth the risk, since having any of them in our starting hand makes the match easier.
1.5) halimar excavators provide an answer to ensnaring bridge which affinity runs and is one of the problem decks for allies. 2ndly if you jwari shapeshifter into another halimar excavator turn 2, milling does not become a late game option, it becomes an immediate threat.
I see your point here against ensnaring bridge, but against affinity you might as well run stony silence or creeping corrosion, if they are playing bridge, which is not very common in current lists.
True, but still it is better to let them work out the delve instead of fueling it, since they will always cast the big creatures with counter / removal backup, to be able to answer any of your threats.
All of this sounds like more of a preference in play as opposed to a fundamental problem with the build of respective person's decks. As I said earlier I am a bit more cautious which is why I prefer bant to naya. I like blue as a color and personally I think it makes almost any deck better.
Nobody has talked about why red is a good choice. I've heard about how "great" (debatable) akoum battlesinger's ability is, and that is it. No sideboard talk, at least if someone mentioned destructive revelry or something I could call it a debate. Right now there are no ideas being thrown around other than adding new red allies because ~"red just works better" and that is not how we help the archetype grow and perfect itself.
Stellar logic. All decks that will ever be tier 1 or 2 have already been discovered. Might as well lock up the forum here and stop brewing everyone. Format solved.
My list was already posted in the thread you just gotta go find the post.
1) Just because I don't play vial doesn't mean the deck doesn't play quick, the deck does not really need aether vial because of our collected company. The reason I don't want an empty hand is because of my counter spells such as negate and soft removal vapor snag. I want them to think twice before playing a anger of the gods. Also with aether vial it is a dead draw late game, I would rather pull a spell or creature in its place which is why I got rid of it and added the halimar excavators in. Also as an additional bonus to their milling ability, they trigger other allies abilities which is what makes this deck so bomb. (same reason I added in 2 mutavaults in but have not updated list yet)
1.5) halimar excavators provide an answer to ensnaring bridge which 8rack runs and is one of the problem decks for allies. 2ndly if you jwari shapeshifter into another halimar excavator turn 3, milling does not become a late game option, it becomes an immediate threat.
2) Delve + vapor snag = LoL
My answer for Ensnaring Bridge has been 2x Abrupt Decays (again playing Abzan, I'd consider going 4 colors for the Clone and Flier but its still meh to me to add. Just like red is Meh with its 2 drop, if only its artifact destroyer was <3cmc then I'd be in love with it. Additionally I have seen lists run Natures Claim in the board which I do like for matchups like tron so you can kill their turn 1 maps. I don't run Vial currently because as you said, dead draw late game and they are $40 a piece and I felt didnt add enough to the deck to warrant the purchase. I will say, after having watched a 5 color Ally video earlier, I would consider adding them back in if we decide to remove CoCo for a "better" 4 drop should we find one and decide that vial is the way we want to go.
I still think that vial and company don't get on well with each other, and that one should take one or the other, but it seems it is ok to run them together, just take a look at the last sliver deck that runs both. The thing is that running both does not give us much space to run any form of interaction, but still we can make a better use of vial than slivers because of all the ETB abilites.
Nature's claim is great because of Blood Moon, Tron, Affinity and other tricky matchups.
I agree, for me it is 1 or the other. So they either need to print a REALLY good ally (probably a 4 drop that I never want to "not get", maybe one that draws cards) and I will run vial, or they will go the route of adding another generic cheap allies that fit great in CoCo and hopefully trim us down to 3 colors, (Naya, Junk or Bant most likely). Currently all Black and Blue have the upperhand at holdovers probably through new releases in Bojuka Brigand and the Clone (obviously clone is better but I think Black's access to Dismember and Abrupt Decay make it the stronger color, plus we are an aggressive deck and I think not being able to block means much less than requiring another Ally to be alive on board. Higher risk, higher reward I suppose).
All of this sounds like more of a preference in play as opposed to a fundamental problem with the build of respective person's decks. As I said earlier I am a bit more cautious which is why I prefer bant to naya. I like blue as a color and personally I think it makes almost any deck better.
Nobody has talked about why red is a good choice. I've heard about how "great" (debatable) akoum battlesinger's ability is, and that is it. No sideboard talk, at least if someone mentioned destructive revelry or something I could call it a debate. Right now there are no ideas being thrown around other than adding new red allies because ~"red just works better" and that is now how we help the archetype grow and perfect itself.
I am with you on that it is personal preference and I feel as things stand Red is the worst of the 3 color options, but that could easily change here after all the spoilers are said and done. I am more inclined to believe that a 1 drop R ally will happen than a 1 drop U ally. They will need to give me another Ally that I'd REALLY like to clone for me to want to splash U over Black. All in all though it is preference. You have 3 2 drops that dictate your color with varying range of Risk->Reward that go in the following order Black (Low Risk/Low Reward gives you what you already have in Oran-Rief but cant block more of the same is always good), Red (Medium Risk/Medium Reward. Gives you a haster which is fantastic and pumps ALL your dudes when an ally enters, requires you to have other dudes in play but can play well without), Blue (High Risk/High Reward, Can get you ANY other ally already in play, typically Kazandu is the best option, however if you have 0 allies in play its a dead card and even if you have 1 ally in play, people can kill it in response to the cast and you lose both). I can definately see all 3 options being viable after spoilers depending on what gets released (Like so help me if they release an ally like Spellstutter Sprite, Bant becomes the prohibitive favorite).
All of this sounds like more of a preference in play as opposed to a fundamental problem with the build of respective person's decks. As I said earlier I am a bit more cautious which is why I prefer bant to naya. I like blue as a color and personally I think it makes almost any deck better.
Nobody has talked about why red is a good choice. I've heard about how "great" (debatable) akoum battlesinger's ability is, and that is it. No sideboard talk, at least if someone mentioned destructive revelry or something I could call it a debate. Right now there are no ideas being thrown around other than adding new red allies because ~"red just works better" and that is now how we help the archetype grow and perfect itself.
I am with you on that it is personal preference and I feel as things stand Red is the worst of the 3 color options, but that could easily change here after all the spoilers are said and done. I am more inclined to believe that a 1 drop R ally will happen than a 1 drop U ally. They will need to give me another Ally that I'd REALLY like to clone for me to want to splash U over Black. All in all though it is preference. You have 3 2 drops that dictate your color with varying range of Risk->Reward that go in the following order Black (Low Risk/Low Reward gives you what you already have in Oran-Rief but cant block more of the same is always good), Red (Medium Risk/Medium Reward. Gives you a haster which is fantastic and pumps ALL your dudes when an ally enters, requires you to have other dudes in play but can play well without), Blue (High Risk/High Reward, Can get you ANY other ally already in play, typically Kazandu is the best option, however if you have 0 allies in play its a dead card and even if you have 1 ally in play, people can kill it in response to the cast and you lose both). I can definately see all 3 options being viable after spoilers depending on what gets released (Like so help me if they release an ally like Spellstutter Sprite, Bant becomes the prohibitive favorite).
@ Exatraz - Quoting this for the win. Seriously this is the in depth analysis I was talking about! Absolutely hit the nail on the head as far as waiting it out right now. It all depends what kind of allies we are going to see pop up. I also agree that a 1 R ally is way more likely than any 1 or even 2 U allies in this set. IF we do get a 1 R ally I can completely get behind a Naya ally deck, but right now between the massive lack of sideboard talk and the limited impact red has on allies I just don't see it happening. Of course can change in the near future very easily but right now Naya looks to be the weakest. And see I don't even care that you said you preferred black over blue because you backed it up with reasons. Reasons I frankly did not consider until now about it having the lowest risk attached to it, as well as the high risk attached to blue. I think that new drana looks playable (more so than anything else I have seen), and happens to be in black which bodes well for your angle of approach. However that legendary creature tag is a big of a downer.
PS if you want a card like Spellstutter Sprite maybe look at running a couple of Kira, Great Glass-Spinner. Its not an ally which is why personally I would be very hesitant to run it, but it works with coco and gives us a little big of a safety net with allies.
@Ramosgay - Yeah I agree with the vial vs company debate. 1 works just great, 2 works fine as well. It depends on how many allotted spots you have for spells, creatures, and land. I run 31 creatures so while I see the immediate early game benefits of aether vial, I really don't need the vial because at turn 3/4 your deck is on autopilot and you have the allies/land to do what you need to.
Stellar logic. All decks that will ever be tier 1 or 2 have already been discovered. Might as well lock up the forum here and stop brewing everyone. Format solved.
So given the reveal of March from the Tomb maybe Abzan Allies is going to be the way to go. First thing I thought was comboing with Bala Ged Thief and maybe Agadeem Occultist to strip the hand and revive one of their creatures to your side.
5 mana spells are not where we want to be. We already have rally the ancestors and return to the ranks for reanimation shenanigans if we want them. And we already have collected company for card advantage - coco is also way less fickle, disruptable, and has the huge advantage of instant speed for both getting through counterspells and allowing instant speed triggers.
That card should have said return all allies or return up to 3 allies or something. With the 5cmc specific requirement its simply not backbreaking enough to be worth the cost and the hoops to jump through to trigger it. I tried return to the ranks in my GW builds and was constantly disappointed as it sat durdling in my hand for turn after turn until I could finally cast it and get back maybe 2 guys. I wished it was just another hada freeblade or survivalist even way more often than I was stoked to pay 4 for 2 allies to come back.
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The issue with this is that in a typical creature deck we want to run 28+ creatures. I really don't think you need to sort your allies in a specific order. For certain it is nice to pull the ally you need at any given moment, however by turn 4 you most likely have what you need out, or some semblance of it. Also that 4 drop is just way too expensive for modern, 3 is always the magic number for tempo/aggro decks (unless you are delving, or using a card like chord of calling to pull out a bigger creature). Allies is all about playing as many as you can, and for the price of 1 munda, ambush leader you can play 2-3 allies depending on your hand.
I don't agree with you about Munda. A 3/4 hasty ally is meh and would never be played in the deck, but the trigger is very relevant. It's not only about sorting your allies, it's about avoiding bad topdecks like vial, hardened scales or lands that do nothing in the lategame or against grindy decks, when you more need gas. He provides a scry4 to be able to get creatures EVERY time an ally enters the battlefield. I would rather play him than Gideon, given that he can't be countered if you are running cavern (which everyone probably is) and can be vialed.
About the legendary vampire, I think she is powerful, but the BB cost could hurt, specially when black is the least of the colours considered to play in an ally deck. Hoping to get an ally land (if the eldrazi can have, why can't we ?)
I agree that he is too expensive to see play in the deck (and I'd rather have Gideon at this point for the "Guaranteed" Ally every turn. All in all, yes currently we are getting a lot of Rare allies that arent great (go figure we dont need them anyway as most of the "good allies" are uncommon or common anyway), we did get the lifelinker reduced to a 3 drop (which is fantastic news, even if we still end up using Ondu over him). The Veteren Warleader I am meh on. I'd actually be ok with him if you could give him haste (Unlike Elves where I usually CoCo EoT so I can untap and hopefully have wombo combo with Archdruid and Ezuri with minimal time for the opponent to answer it, with allies I tend to CoCo on my turn before combat and want to hit any ally so it increases my damage output that turn (Evangel is almost always welcome so I can just swing through blocks)). As it stands I am slightly disappointed so far but I do have this gut feeling that we will get a couple more cheap ones printed but to the rest of the magic community they will be "unexciting" and simple and thus spoiled last. Look at Hada. 0/1 for W that gets a single +1/+1 when he enters. If they gave us another 1 mana ally at common with no other fancy ability but +1/+1 counters, the rest of the magic community will yawn and move on. Those are the cards we thrive on though. We don't NEED fancy abilities like trample, lifelink and such. We NEED basic boring get bigger creatures. I really wish the Vampire was just a basic lifelinker that got counters, or at least drained an opponent (even if it was just life loss and no life gain) for each ally you control. (Like Shaman of the Pack but Ally... and better)
I am personally running Abzan Allies because it gives me access to another 2 drop in Bojuka Brigand and so I don't have too much of a problem with BB, which vampire are you talking about? I have only see the 1WB ally that is a vampire and the awful 7 drop. Also I think we need to move away from Champion if we are able since he isn't an actual ally and I feel his Psuedo Ally synergy isn't enough to keep him in the deck post BFZ release, even if that means we dont have as many 1 drops (I hope we get a Black, White or Green 1 drop personally).
(Side note you brought up: Why the hell do Eldrazi (King of REALLY expensive creatures) get cheap creatures and Allies dont!!! GRRR as I said before, I am expecting the ones we want to be spoiled towards the end as "filler commons" like most of the ones we play now.)
Here:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/630920-the-new-kalastria-4-mana-o-ring-artifact
Kalastria 1BB
Creature- Vampire Ally
Flying, First Strike
When " deals combat damage to an opponent, put a +1/+1 counter on each attacking creature you control.
2/3
-She has the art from the Game Day playmat
Still unconfirmed, but the playmat is here:
I think she is cool, since first strike allows the rest of the attackers get the +1/+1 before they do the damage if she connects in the air
I don'rt run aether vial, I cut those in place of 3 halimar excavators and an extra land. I found that with the addition of CoCo you didn't really need the vial. The vial emptied out my hand a little too quick for my linking, running bant I do have come counters and such in my board so I never want to have an empty hand. Also I find that it is really hard to take this deck late game regardless of what you drop man (if you are playing 8rack, Jeskai Control or UW control we lose late game regardless of what we play) which is why it is best to maximize efficiency early game (its why this is an aggro deck, an aggro deck that stomps on merfolk's face in my playtests might I add)
Yeah its nifty for sure. and being able to add counters to ALL your (attacking) creatures is actually important if you want to bring the ones that don't naturally get +1/+1 counters out of bolt range.
While we do have a big chunk of spoilers incoming, the last half of them are going to be common fodder, so I feel your concern. Then again, they can't print a super lord in the first set of a block can they?
What's funny about Blademaster is that even if I played a 5cmc creature in modern allies, it would be Thundermaw over this guy.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
But as I said briefly, common fodder is what we actually could use. Just give me a 1 drop in White/Green/Black/Red (in that order of preference) and I think we will all come out very happy. I will take another 2 drop as well. Pretty much unless it has an ability that blows me away (and I can't think of what I would actually want at this point), just give me +1/+1 counters. (Maybe something that when it enters it puts +1/+1 counters on each ally you control).
@McScoop: Resolute blademaster is barely playable, as is Tajuru warcaller.5 cmc is way too high, even for the effects both cards have.
@tennisbro: I don't understand your points:
1- You say you don't want to reach the late game, therefore end the game asap, but you don't run vial, which is an accelerator, because it empties your hand too quick. The win condition of an aggro ally deck (see below) is killing with damage dealt by creatures. The more creatures we can deploy in the early-mid game, the faster we will kill. Emptying our hand early from creatures is actually maximizing efficiency in the early game.
2- You state that the deck needs to play aggro style (which I agree), but then you add 3 Halimar excavator, which appart from not being an aggresive ally, will bring the late game you don't want to reacch earlier than it should come.
Maybe if you posted your list I could figure out your version, and understand how it plays.
I'm not saying that the deck should play the lategame. I am stating that cards that give us creatures, like company or munda are good for us, specially against decks playing removal, disruption and counterspells, and inevitably we will reach a mid-late game when facing any of those decks. Gideon fits in the same category, but not being protected by cavern is a great donwside.
1) Just because I don't play vial doesn't mean the deck doesn't play quick, the deck does not really need aether vial because of our collected company. The reason I don't want an empty hand is because of my counter spells such as negate and soft removal vapor snag. I want them to think twice before playing a anger of the gods. Also with aether vial it is a dead draw late game, I would rather pull a spell or creature in its place which is why I got rid of it and added the halimar excavators in. Also as an additional bonus to their milling ability, they trigger other allies abilities which is what makes this deck so bomb. (same reason I added in 2 mutavaults in but have not updated list yet)
1.5) halimar excavators provide an answer to ensnaring bridge which 8rack runs and is one of the problem decks for allies. 2ndly if you jwari shapeshifter into another halimar excavator turn 3, milling does not become a late game option, it becomes an immediate threat.
2) Delve + vapor snag = LoL
My answer for Ensnaring Bridge has been 2x Abrupt Decays (again playing Abzan, I'd consider going 4 colors for the Clone and Flier but its still meh to me to add. Just like red is Meh with its 2 drop, if only its artifact destroyer was <3cmc then I'd be in love with it. Additionally I have seen lists run Natures Claim in the board which I do like for matchups like tron so you can kill their turn 1 maps. I don't run Vial currently because as you said, dead draw late game and they are $40 a piece and I felt didnt add enough to the deck to warrant the purchase. I will say, after having watched a 5 color Ally video earlier, I would consider adding them back in if we decide to remove CoCo for a "better" 4 drop should we find one and decide that vial is the way we want to go.
If the deck curves out, it indeeds plays quick without the need of a vial. Adding vial just makes it even faster and more resilent to counterspells. Hardened scales is also a bad topdeck, yet you are playing it with only 12 + 4(shapeshifters) creatures that get counters, but I think both are worth the risk, since having any of them in our starting hand makes the match easier.
I see your point here against ensnaring bridge, but against affinity you might as well run stony silence or creeping corrosion, if they are playing bridge, which is not very common in current lists.
True, but still it is better to let them work out the delve instead of fueling it, since they will always cast the big creatures with counter / removal backup, to be able to answer any of your threats.
I still think that vial and company don't get on well with each other, and that one should take one or the other, but it seems it is ok to run them together, just take a look at the last sliver deck that runs both. The thing is that running both does not give us much space to run any form of interaction, but still we can make a better use of vial than slivers because of all the ETB abilites.
Nature's claim is great because of Blood Moon, Tron, Affinity and other tricky matchups.
All of this sounds like more of a preference in play as opposed to a fundamental problem with the build of respective person's decks. As I said earlier I am a bit more cautious which is why I prefer bant to naya. I like blue as a color and personally I think it makes almost any deck better.
Nobody has talked about why red is a good choice. I've heard about how "great" (debatable) akoum battlesinger's ability is, and that is it. No sideboard talk, at least if someone mentioned destructive revelry or something I could call it a debate. Right now there are no ideas being thrown around other than adding new red allies because ~"red just works better" and that is not how we help the archetype grow and perfect itself.
I agree, for me it is 1 or the other. So they either need to print a REALLY good ally (probably a 4 drop that I never want to "not get", maybe one that draws cards) and I will run vial, or they will go the route of adding another generic cheap allies that fit great in CoCo and hopefully trim us down to 3 colors, (Naya, Junk or Bant most likely). Currently all Black and Blue have the upperhand at holdovers probably through new releases in Bojuka Brigand and the Clone (obviously clone is better but I think Black's access to Dismember and Abrupt Decay make it the stronger color, plus we are an aggressive deck and I think not being able to block means much less than requiring another Ally to be alive on board. Higher risk, higher reward I suppose).
I am with you on that it is personal preference and I feel as things stand Red is the worst of the 3 color options, but that could easily change here after all the spoilers are said and done. I am more inclined to believe that a 1 drop R ally will happen than a 1 drop U ally. They will need to give me another Ally that I'd REALLY like to clone for me to want to splash U over Black. All in all though it is preference. You have 3 2 drops that dictate your color with varying range of Risk->Reward that go in the following order Black (Low Risk/Low Reward gives you what you already have in Oran-Rief but cant block more of the same is always good), Red (Medium Risk/Medium Reward. Gives you a haster which is fantastic and pumps ALL your dudes when an ally enters, requires you to have other dudes in play but can play well without), Blue (High Risk/High Reward, Can get you ANY other ally already in play, typically Kazandu is the best option, however if you have 0 allies in play its a dead card and even if you have 1 ally in play, people can kill it in response to the cast and you lose both). I can definately see all 3 options being viable after spoilers depending on what gets released (Like so help me if they release an ally like Spellstutter Sprite, Bant becomes the prohibitive favorite).
@ Exatraz - Quoting this for the win. Seriously this is the in depth analysis I was talking about! Absolutely hit the nail on the head as far as waiting it out right now. It all depends what kind of allies we are going to see pop up. I also agree that a 1 R ally is way more likely than any 1 or even 2 U allies in this set. IF we do get a 1 R ally I can completely get behind a Naya ally deck, but right now between the massive lack of sideboard talk and the limited impact red has on allies I just don't see it happening. Of course can change in the near future very easily but right now Naya looks to be the weakest. And see I don't even care that you said you preferred black over blue because you backed it up with reasons. Reasons I frankly did not consider until now about it having the lowest risk attached to it, as well as the high risk attached to blue. I think that new drana looks playable (more so than anything else I have seen), and happens to be in black which bodes well for your angle of approach. However that legendary creature tag is a big of a downer.
PS if you want a card like Spellstutter Sprite maybe look at running a couple of Kira, Great Glass-Spinner. Its not an ally which is why personally I would be very hesitant to run it, but it works with coco and gives us a little big of a safety net with allies.
@Ramosgay - Yeah I agree with the vial vs company debate. 1 works just great, 2 works fine as well. It depends on how many allotted spots you have for spells, creatures, and land. I run 31 creatures so while I see the immediate early game benefits of aether vial, I really don't need the vial because at turn 3/4 your deck is on autopilot and you have the allies/land to do what you need to.
RW burn
Grixis delver
Slivers
8 Whack
"Don't underestimate the aerodynamic qualities of the common goblin."
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/battle-for-zendikar/25932-march-from-the-tomb
That card should have said return all allies or return up to 3 allies or something. With the 5cmc specific requirement its simply not backbreaking enough to be worth the cost and the hoops to jump through to trigger it. I tried return to the ranks in my GW builds and was constantly disappointed as it sat durdling in my hand for turn after turn until I could finally cast it and get back maybe 2 guys. I wished it was just another hada freeblade or survivalist even way more often than I was stoked to pay 4 for 2 allies to come back.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron