I know that the allies we got in OGW were all pretty much worthless, but I'm wondering if anyone thinks that maybe we could replace expedition envoy with Stoneforge Acolyte and then add in 4 Captain's Claws? i think the synergy of Captain's Claws with all of the original allies is just too good to pass up. Getting survivalist, Freeblade, and Blademaster triggers off of claws just seems really really good, and the acolyte's ability would help immensely in finding the equipment while still being a decent 1 drop.
is probably going to serve you better than hoping to hit one off the top with Stoneforge Acolyte.
Steelshaper’s gift is good but I’d rather have the ½ body of the acolyte on the board that not only benefits from all the ally triggers from claws but also triggers abilities itself when it enters the board. The Sword of feast and famine is also good, but I’d rather have the claws since every activation grants triggers, and another body on the board who also benefits from the triggers. I don’t even really see the claws as a “win more” card since even with a small number of allies the triggers they grant plus the body can be a huge tempo swing. This deck loves to overrun, and the claws really enable that.
is probably going to serve you better than hoping to hit one off the top with Stoneforge Acolyte.
Personally think that the equipment package is better in an EDH setting, rather than for Modern. I may be wrong though, but I feel that equipment package is a little slow comparing to what Allys can do on their own.
Agreed. The equipment is probably just unnecessary given the explosiveness of the deck, but I think a 1-mana equipment tutor is miles better than a do-little one drop.
This is an old pet deck of mine...I hadn't played it in a while, but decided to take it out again to a local Modern Event last night and it reminded me of how fun it is
To preface this: The sideboard is quite random as I had to redo it (My LGS decided to play with the changes from Friday already in effect, so Twin and Bloom banned, OGW legal). My local meta used to be a lot of Twin, Burn and Affinity so I set up for the latter 2 and the expected rise of Tron.
I went 3-1 and came second, losing to BW Eldrazi and beating Scapeshift, Kiki Chord and Abzan Collected. Can't remember all the details so I'll just put some notes with each match...
Round 1 (2-0 vs. Abzan Collected)
Allies is much, much faster. G1 i had Bladewhirl + Battlesinger + a Shapeshifter copying Battlesinger and there was no way he could deal with so much First Striking Power in combat. G2 I had quite a slow hand but 2 Evangels so he barely ever blocked so the game still ended quickly.
SB: -4 Expedition Envoy, +4 Path to Exile.
Round 2 (2-0 vs. Scapeshift)
G1 I had a Vial into Freeblade + Battlesinger and another Battlesinger + Blademaster...he blocked with a Tribe-Elder but was already at 3 or so...An Evangel secured the turn 4 Kill. G2 I wasn't as fast but had a solid clock out and a vial on 3 with an Evangel in hand. He had to Bring to Light for an Anger of the Gods on 6 Lands and I just vialed in Evangel and won.
SB: -1 Gideon, -1 Firemantle Mage, -1 Kor Bladewhirl, -1 Mirror Entity, +2 Crumble to Dust, +2 Thalia
Round 3 (0-2 vs. BW Eldrazi)
G1 he had the nuts...T1 Relic, T2 Thought-Knot Seer, T3 Oblivion Sower, T4 Ulamog, T5 Double Reality Smasher...yeah, not sure how anyone beats that kind of a curve. G2 he started off with a Seer on T2. I had T1 Vial, T2 Freeblade + Battlesinger, T3 Path for the Seer + Shapeshifter to copy the Battlesinger, so hit pretty hard and put him at 6. But he then cracked a Relic, got a Blight Herder and started gumming up the board with Tokens and soon after huge 5/5, 5/8 and such...needless to say they're colourless so I was basically drawing for a Firemantle Mage because Menace would have forced through the last few points of damage...but didn't get there. Died to Ulamog instead.
SB: -4 Kabira Evangel, -2 Expedition Envoy, +2 Crumble to Dust, +4 Path to Exile
Round 4 (2-1 vs. Kiki-Chord)
G1 I eventually won with Druid + Mirror Entity presenting a board full of 7/7 which they can only chump block and that not for long. Lost G2. He had 2 Pia & Kiran Nalaars and Resto-flickered on one of them twice...so many colorless Thopter tokens...he managed to stall me out long enough to combo off and I didn't have a path. G3 was fairly long and grindy...he had 3 Paths and a Helix and a Witness to buy back a Path...he eventually played a Kiki (last card in Hand) with a Witness on board. I was holding to paths so patched the witness in response and then the Kiki at EOT. His board was a lonely Birds after. I had slow rolled an Evangel through all his removal and playing it there was game. That game I used 2 Ally Encampments to bounce my guys and protect them from removal as I was quite land heavy and the game was grindy...
SB: -4 Expedition Envoy, +4 Path to Exile
Didn't play against Burn, Tron or Affinity which were the decks I expected but most of those people weren't there that night and I didn't play against the others. Overall this deck seems to have a very solid creature matchup because Evangel is nuts and most of our guys can outgrow nearly anything. As always it's vulnerable to sweepers and doesn't like to see spot removal but can work through it. The combo matchup is decent, depending. Our clock is one of the fastest...T4 kills are very common if my opponent is only sculpting his hand...No idea how to win that Eldrazi match though...
I'm still not sure on Gideon. I never played him last night and only drew him once, but also had a Company, played that first and won. He's kind of slow sometimes, but dropping a 2/2 every turn that also triggers all our guys seems amazing in some matchups...Too bad the Allies in OGW are absolutely useless and the ones from BFZ are almost all useless If only they gave us the same sort of toys they gave Eldrazi...and I want to add 1 or 2 Mutavault since I think the mana will still be more than good enough.
Oh well, still a fun deck and no one knows what to expect when playing against it.
So, how do we like the bannings and the rise of tron and affinity?
I am thinking on a vial-less build, and having 4 stony silence and 4 suppression field in the side.
If you're going to board in those 8 cards you may as well play the vials and just board them out. They're still really good for flooding the board, instant speed tricks, etc....but I think having a playset of each of those is most likely overboard anyways.
Not necessarily...you can always play Mana Confluence or City of Brass instead. I feel like Vial is extremely powerful in both ramping you and giving you the chance to get Allies into play at instant speed.
Both cards give uncounterability. We'll have to wait and see how the meta ends up shaping up now, but with the premier control deck in Splinter Twin gone there is a lot less countermagic around.
Basically what I want to say is that Cavern does 2 things: Fix your mana and protect your creatures from countermagic. The first can be replaced, the second not so much but it's also no longer as relevant as it was (despite still being really good). Meanwhile Vial does 4 things: Fix your mana, accelerate your game plan, give you the option of playing creatures at instant speed and protect your creatures from countermagic. So on a budget, also considering that caverns are twice as much as vials, I'd definitely go for Vials first.
Cavern and Vial serve similar purposes, but Vial might be better purchase than Cavern for 2 reasons. Vial has better portability into other decks such as Merfolk, Slivers, Hatebears, Shamans, other tribal decks. Cavern would be better if you are switching over to Elves or need more mana fixing like in Slivers. Otherwise Vial fixes mana and provides the better combat tricks then Cavern. It is also uncounterable Allies.
2x Crumble to Dust: Tron is a very weak match up. So this needs to go 2-off. I suspect Eldrazi match-ups will be quite bad as well, so I'm playing this.
2x Leyline of Sanctity: Stops Burn, Combo decks, hand disruptions by Jund/Abzan/Eldrazi/racks
2x Natural State: Artifact/enchantment removal. Pack these against Blood Moon, Affinity, AURA.
1x Ondu Cleric: Support against Burn, Zoo, Aura. Life gain essentially.
2x Spellskite: Stops Burn, Scapeshift to an extend, Hoses Aura... More to look into this. But, they still deserve to be in here!
1x Stony silence: Artifact hate. Enough said.
3x Suppression Field: Stops Fetchlands, activated abilities. That's 80% of the meta decks. Why not?
Please help review my deck overall and tell me if there is any room for improvement.
List looks solid overall.
I wouldn't run a full set of Harabaz Druid. In my experience the card is really bad in multiples and your list doesn't run any 4 drops other than CoCo, so I don't see the need for so much mana ramp. In my experience the card is sometimes even bad when you only draw 1 of them. It's weird, it seems it can't be good, only bad or amazing...either it taps for mana about once and then sits there for the rest of the game, or it does something ridiculous like vomiting 5-6 allies onto the battlefield in the following 2 turns or making everything huge with Mirror Entity...but yeah, I don't think we should run more than 2.
On another note:
I've now had the time to read through the entire topic and it seems like there have been 2 main camps for Ally decks in modern so far: An Abzan list oriented around +1/+1 counters, which runs Hardened Scales and therefore makes cards like Bojuka Brigand, Abzan Falconer and Champion of the Parish strong. The Second list focuses more on Rally triggers and relies more heavily on Aether Vial and Akoum Battlesinger.
With the (shockingly bad) new allies we got in BFZ and OGW only the second strategy got any support and therefore seems to be emerging as the more played one, simply because of its blistering pace, which is what I think makes Allies viable in Modern. So it looks like most lists will now be Naya focused, possibly splashing colors for Allies only, e.g. Jwari Shapeshifter.
To optimise the Naya list it looks like these are the strongest cards and auto includes:
Manabase:
4 Cavern
4 Encampment
4 Windswept
1 Forest
2-3 Plains
3-4 Shocks
0-2 Mutavault
Should look something like the above. I really want to run 2 Mutavault, I think the mana should still be good enough with all the fixing we have. The only challenging cost is WW for Blademaster on T2 which should be ok with only 3 non-white-producing lands (2 Vauls, 1 Forest).
Are 20 Lands enough? I feel like they are with 4 Vials and 0-2 Druids, but I'm not sure
Non-Creatures:
Because of Company we can only run a very limited amount here. With Twin banned I think we can pass up on maindeck interaction to focus on speed and consistency. Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is a consideration here as 1-2 copies.
Creatures:
The 20 above seem mandatory. I think Expedition Envoy while not being a great card is still needed to give the deck enough 1-drops to curve out aggressively and provide cheap triggers later on. This leaves us with about 10-12 Creaturesspots left to decide upon.
Candidates: Oran-Rief Survivalist provides the biggest body Kor Bladewhirl is actually amazing with Akoum Battlesinger. Very relevant in creature matches, quite bad otherwise Lantern Scout good card and in every list i think, only question is how many. Thrives vs. Burn and Aggro while still being live vs. Scapeshift, BGx, etc... Harabaz Druid Enables T3 Company and accelerates dumping your hand onto the table. Hit and miss, bad in multiples. Great with Entity Mirror Entity Often a 1 of mana sink, amazing with Druid Firemantle Mage Additional, albeit worse, copies of Kabira Evangel Jwari Shapeshifter Huge upside being more copies of our best allies, especially Battlesinger being ridiculous in multiples. Requires other allies already, preferably more than 1 to not risk getting blown out. Bad in multiples since you will have less other allies to copy.
So that's my question: How would you fill up the remaining slots? Oh and feel free to disagree with all the things I said before that, discussion is what leads to improvement
I completely agree with your opinion. I am still tuning the right number for Harabaz Druid. Maybe 2-3 would be the best. The extra slot is up for the takes, and I am contemplating running a "5th" Collected Company: Join the Ranks. Essentially does the same thing but it's white and gives you small 1/1 dudes. But, hey, ETB triggers!
Other cards up for consideration would be singleton Boros Charm or the 3rd Oran-Rief Survivalist. Maybe Gideon, Ally of Zendikar can be considered, but I personally don't really like him as he is very situational. He is great in sustaining mid to late games, but he's really bad if you have a poor board-state or getting overwhelmed on the other side.
A word on Expedition Envoy: Don't let the lack of Rally fool you! sHe's incredibly powerful and can match the power of Hada Freeblade in the first 3 turns. You definitely need this if you are not running Hardened Scales/Champion of the Parish synergy. As you said, the second reason why this card is good is for the cheap ETB triggers later on.
As far as I can think, 2x Lantern Scout is optimal in maindeck
So the goal is to drain life the opponent with kalastria healer and cliffhaven vampire, in addition to the beatdown plan. In some matches you can just gain tons of life and get out of some combo decks range, of just beat aggro/burn.
This list is just a first draft, if you have ideas to improve it i'd love to ear them.
I'd still want to run 4 Kabira Evangel in your shell, it's amazing with Cloudshift for example, to give all your allies protection at instant speed. Plus it's just a great card, allowing you to ignore blockers a lot of the time.
So the goal is to drain life the opponent with kalastria healer and cliffhaven vampire, in addition to the beatdown plan. In some matches you can just gain tons of life and get out of some combo decks range, of just beat aggro/burn.
This list is just a first draft, if you have ideas to improve it i'd love to ear them.
March from the Tomb MB? I know it looks like a sideboard material, but I just guess it's worth a try actually.
I have been running allies for the last two months, and have had great success with it. It has recently gotten much worse with the fall of twin and the rise, at least at my shop, of delver/prowess and eldrazi decks.
Choices:
Oran-Rief Survivalist to be nice, but I just need some place to cut.
Expedition Envoy - Am currently trying 2. Hard to say.
Path to Exile - Constantly going to 4 paths, and then back down.
Just changed the land base to better support Gideon, and giving him a try. Dropped two caverns. Did not see him in 4 rounds of Modern last night.
Lead the stampede is insane.
Would like to try oath of gideon. Just not sure its better than LtS.
Sideboard: Needs huge changes. I tried the firespouts last night, and they did not disappoint. Need to figure out a way to stop torpor orb (destroyed me last night in game 3 against delver/prowess, first time i've had it played against me), and eldrazi. Perhaps reclamation sage?
A) 19 Lands
Seems very low. I only recently cut down to 20 myself. You're running only 19 and 8 fetches, thining your deck a lot (this actually makes a lot more difference than people commonly believe). With that reaching your 6 4-mana spells seems kind of inconsistent for me. Have you ever had trouble?
B) Path/Envoy
While Envoy isn't quite what I was hoping for from BFZ/OGW it's still a 1 drop 2 power ally which is solid. My list is built to be as aggressive as possible G1, which makes the additional 1-drops really shine. Plus they're allies so never a dead draw. Path on the other hand gives you an actual answer and inspires you to play slower and more grindy. I think both styles have their merit in certain matches, which is why I run 4 Path in the board, often replacing my Envoys. Having access to both is good but a 2/2 split mains seems to make it kind of a lottery which strategy you hit. If you're going all in as fast as possible and top deck a path you'll likely be disappointed...if you decide to play a little slower and play an attrition game and draw an Envoy you might not be happy either. Of course there's situations where you'll benefit from having the chance of drawing a main-deck path for example, but it splits your game plan...if you know what I mean. Obviously a minor point, I'm not sure what's better myself and the whole thing changes post board anyway...
C) Total non-creatures
The power of allies IMO comes from the blistering and consistent pace along with ways to ignore blockers. And CoCo inspires as high a creature count as possible. So how has running 14 non-creatures MB been for you? I like Lead the Stampede, I used to run it myself, it just feels so slow How has it performed? I think it depends on your meta obviously...guessing if you have a lot of attrition matches like BGx they'll be amazing...
D) Gideon
It's not worth dropping Caverns for Gideon. Really, he's good in grindy games like BGx, which can barely remove him or keep up with him...but in most matches I'll be happier casting CoCo or even a 3-drop like Evangel over Gideon...
E) Sideboard
This is very hard atm without us knowing the post-Twin meta well. We all expect a lot of Tron/Eldrazi, but those decks fold to linear aggro fairly often...and the last SCG Modern Series had a top8 (in order) of RUG Delver, Jund, Merfolk, Menfolk, Affinity, Affinity, Burn, Zoo...but I guess local meta is a bigger player for most of us.
General rule is that creatures are better than non-creatures for us...especially allies (Ally triggers, aggressive style, CoCo). That's something I need to work on myself in the board...
Regarding what you said about your local meta:
vs. Delver/Prowess: Firespout is interesting. Seems reasonable to run depending on the decks. How much of their stuff does it kill? I imagine it not hitting much other than Delver...what am I missing? Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is a monster. These lists generally run about 20 lands with 10+ fetches and around 25 mostly 1 mana spells...yeah, you get what I mean. Just make sure to name Human on your Caverns post-board (Shapeshifter and Bladewhirl are the only non-humans in the deck and Shapeshifter should be cut vs them anyway). And it messes with their heads if you name Ally G1 and Human G2 Return to the Ranks or the likes (March from the Tomb, Immortal Servitude) are great if you often find a lot of creatures in your graveyard
Slow things with low immediate board impact should be cut here. Shapeshifter is very risky with all the cheap interaction they run. You can easily find your 2 creatures Bolted/Snaged in response and the Shapeshifter just dying...
vs. Eldrazi/Tron Crumble to Dust is very good against Tron, nowhere near as good vs. Eldrazi Path to Exile should probably become a playset post board to remove the big critters Stony Silence is good vs. Tron as it slows them down a lot
basically we want to go under them which is easier vs. Tron. Eldrazi can curve out ridiculously and we can barely get through. Evangel is really bad vs. Eldrazi but not as bad vs Tron because of stuff like Pyroclasm. Leyline of Sanctity shuts down a lot of the discard/processing the Eldrazi decks do and is obviously very useful otherwise. That being said if it's not in your starting hand it'll likely be to late to help
In your sideboard: Suppression Field is odd. I imagine you'll be cutting the Vials, but you still have 8 fetch-lands...Stony Silence just seems better in that case... Choke can be a real blow out, but where do you actually need it? It's a 3-mana enchantment...you'll spend a whole turn playing it, likely against a blue tempo deck that can just counter it and profit massively from you slowing down so much...
Just my 2 cents...hope this opens up a discussion
I should get some more testing and a small tournament in tomorrow...
March from the Tomb MB? I know it looks like a sideboard material, but I just guess it's worth a try actually.
Yeah i actually thought of running return to the ranks or rally the ancestors alongside halimar excavator for even more comboey shennanigans. i'm not sure they are better than the ghostway engine, i'll have to start testing it. Bringing back lots of ally for tons of triggers either ways seems very sweet
March from the Tomb MB? I know it looks like a sideboard material, but I just guess it's worth a try actually.
Yeah i actually thought of running return to the ranks or rally the ancestors alongside halimar excavator for even more comboey shennanigans. i'm not sure they are better than the ghostway engine, i'll have to start testing it. Bringing back lots of ally for tons of triggers either ways seems very sweet
Tried a lot of blink effects in my casual days. Ghostway is a very very sick card. I had 2 pieces when it was $3. Cloudshift works as well. Immortal servitude? I'm just throwing out ideas now. You can consider clone effects like phantasmal image, Shapesharer to copy and have more Halimar Excavator. If not just consider ramping and play rite of replication
March from the Tomb MB? I know it looks like a sideboard material, but I just guess it's worth a try actually.
Yeah i actually thought of running return to the ranks or rally the ancestors alongside halimar excavator for even more comboey shennanigans. i'm not sure they are better than the ghostway engine, i'll have to start testing it. Bringing back lots of ally for tons of triggers either ways seems very sweet
Tried a lot of blink effects in my casual days. Ghostway is a very very sick card. I had 2 pieces when it was $3. Cloudshift works as well. Immortal servitude? I'm just throwing out ideas now. You can consider clone effects like phantasmal image, Shapesharer to copy and have more Halimar Excavator. If not just consider ramping and play rite of replication
Rite of Replication seems to take the deck out of modern competitive viability...
That life gain/drain list seems too mixed to me already, I'd refrain from adding mill to it as well. If you want to go that route you should probably go all in on a combo kill. But I'd love to hear some results from the gain/drain list...How have your results been with the gain/drain list? To me it just seems really slow compared to a straight aggro list...
Need to figure out a way to stop torpor orb (destroyed me last night in game 3 against delver/prowess, first time i've had it played against me), and eldrazi. Perhaps reclamation sage?
I've only played three small tourneys with Allies, but the only time in 10 matches I've lost to a non-control deck, it was to a one-of Torpor Orb the guy had in his Zoo sideboard for the Twin matchup. He drew it literally the turn before I would have won game 3, and he ended up winning in extra turns.
Reclamation Sage won't work because the Orb shuts off the effect that would destroy it. Qasali Pridemage is probably the best creature-based bet here.
How have your results been with the gain/drain list? To me it just seems really slow compared to a straight aggro list...
Haha i haven't played the deck yet, i was just brainstorming and looking for suggestions before i actually sleeve it up. I did goldfish a bit with it and it plays a lot like the abzan ascendancy deck (or aristocrats or whatever). I'll make sure to come back and post results when i try it in an actual tournament.
Need to figure out a way to stop torpor orb (destroyed me last night in game 3 against delver/prowess, first time i've had it played against me), and eldrazi. Perhaps reclamation sage?
I've only played three small tourneys with Allies, but the only time in 10 matches I've lost to a non-control deck, it was to a one-of Torpor Orb the guy had in his Zoo sideboard for the Twin matchup. He drew it literally the turn before I would have won game 3, and he ended up winning in extra turns.
Sounds like an impressive record. I'd love to see the decklist and what decks you played against Still fine-tuning mine.
Speaking of, here's another report from tonights modern...
before the tournament I did some testing:
Played 4 games vs. RUG Delver (the exact list Todd Anderson won the last SCG even with). Won all games (all pre-board)
Matchup is great for us imo...had a lot of Vial + Evangel interactions here which were very strong. Evangel was clearly the best card in the matchup.
Played 3 games vs. RG Tron, won 1, lost 2, all pre-board
Won first game by simply going underneath him. T3 Wormcoil, T4 O-Stone wasn't enough.
Lost second game on the draw to natural tron, T3 Karn, T4 Ugin. No chance at all.
Lost third game to T4 O-Stone, T5 Ugin just about stabilising.
Matchup is very winnable pre-board, probably better post board for us.
For the actual tournament: Went 2-2 Was very unhappy with what my deck churned up for me, I had to take so many mulligans, literally 70% of my hands had 0-1 lands in them. I cut down from 21 to 20 this week but I refuse to believe it made such a huge difference. In addition, I missed on CoCo stupidly often. Hit nothing twice and one thing 3 times with around 6-7 regular hits. That's dumb if the chance of hitting 2 creatures is 95-96%.
Round 1 (1-2 vs. Affinity)
Lost G1 on the draw. Mulligan to 6. Very close. I untapped on my T4 at 8 life and 2 poison...He was at 14. I could have activated Mutavault and played Battlesinger, attacking for 13 or cast CoCo and hoped to hit I think Double Battlesinger as my only out. I chose to cast Lantern Scout instead, meaning I would win unless I got poison killed next turn (he had a Ravager out but was 2 artifacts short, 1 card in hand). Needless to say he got there with an artifact in hand and off the top.
Won G2 on the play with a good hand to an average one of his. Had Vial into Envoy+Battlesinger into Battlesinger+Blademaster and a T4 win with Firemantle Mage.
Lost G3 on a Mulligan to 5. Very close again, could have won around T4/5 if I drew a land to cast Ancient Grudge with, but never drew it the whole game. We were eventually both in top deck mode looking for a way to kill...he was at 3 but had too many blockers, I was in the 20s with 9 poison. He drew Ghirapur Æther Grid the turn before I drew Kataki, War's Wage. Was quite frustrating since he got to ping down my Kataki, then drew the Inkmoth and won next turn.
SB: -1 Gideon, -2 Bladewhirl, -4 Evangel, +4 Path, +2 Stony Silence, +1 Ancient Grudge
Round 2 (2-0 vs. Elves)
Fairly easy matchup. Our deck is clearly faster and Evangel is stupidly good. Mulliganed twice btw...
SB: -1 Gideon, +1 Lantern Scout
Round 3 (2-1 vs. Naya Burn)
Won G1 thanks to 6 life from a Lantern Scout attack (it got nuked immediately though) and a vial-Evangel on blocks to not die followed by a lethal attack the other way.
Lost G2 on a mulligan to 5 stuck on 1 land for about 4 turns. If i hit my second land around turn 3 I could maybe still have won but wasn't meant to be.
Won G3 on a mull to 6, managed to race him with 2 Battlesingers and an Image copying one providing insane power boosts...
Round 4 (1-2 vs. BW Eldrazi)
Lost G1 on the draw and a mulligan. Kept Cavern, Vial, Freeblade, Druid, Kazandu, Firemantle. Inquisition took my Vial T1 and i hit my 2nd land on turn 6. His draw was very suboptimal (obviously, seeing as i was still alive by then). Would have easily won with my second land on turn 3 or 4 or without losing my Vial.
Won G2 on the play, another mulligan. Won T3 against a slow start.
Lost G3, was very tight. Ended up quite stalled but I had Firemantle Mage out so any Ally was lethal for 3 turns. Drew land, land, Vial (obviously) while my opponent drew 2 consecutive Reality Smasher followed by an Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger to seal the deal. Should have won that game, we both agreed.
Overall, deck is still strong. Lost the 2 matchups where Kabira is bad, showing once again it's the best card in the deck. I think I took 11 mulligans in the 12 rounds I played, 9 of them being on 0-1 land and the other being 7 lands and a hand with Mutavault+Forest+3 Blademaster+Freeblade+Gideon. Lost top decking wars for both my losses. On another day I would have gone 4-0. (Sorry if I sound salty, I'm actually not, just trying to state that the deck is better than it was given credit tonight)
Never drew Gideon on non-mulligan hands, again, will likely cut him.
Seeing as how horrible my mana was I think I'll go back up to 21 lands.
Played Oran-Rief Survivalist once and it was very uninspiring...not bad, just not good either
Had some good moments with Kor Bladewhirl and Akoum Battlesinger, but Bladewhirl on its own still doesn't fill me with confidence.
A playset of Expedition Envoy is now set in stone for me. The additional 1-drops really are great.
No MD removal has worked out fine. Firemantle Mage overperformed, will likely go up to 2. Mirror Entity underperformed, it would have been great twice, but by those points I'd already won. It feels more like win-more than say an Evangel literally winning you the game. Collected Company underperformed massively, but I don't think it's a bad card, just flipping over Gideon, 3 CoCos, a Vial and a Land doesn't help Crumble to Dust sucks against Eldrazi and might not be where we want to be vs. Tron either. I feel we need to win before that...A cheap way to delay Ugin/Karn/O-Stone for a turn would do us much more favours.
Need to figure out a way to stop torpor orb (destroyed me last night in game 3 against delver/prowess, first time i've had it played against me), and eldrazi. Perhaps reclamation sage?
I've only played three small tourneys with Allies, but the only time in 10 matches I've lost to a non-control deck, it was to a one-of Torpor Orb the guy had in his Zoo sideboard for the Twin matchup. He drew it literally the turn before I would have won game 3, and he ended up winning in extra turns.
Sounds like an impressive record. I'd love to see the decklist and what decks you played against Still fine-tuning mine.
I played my list at two Modern side events at GPSeaTac (100+ people each), and went 2-1 and 3-1 in matches played. (Two IDs, one no-show.) Also took it to a local moderately competitive local event (50-ish people) and went 2-1 before having to head home early.
My losses have been to Naya Zoo (went to turns, Torpor Orb killed me), Grixis Control (first time in that matchup, didn't feel competitive - need practice here), and Lantern Control (nearly got her both games, but couldn't close out before she got the lock in place.) I've beaten Elves, 5C Zoo, U/R Twin (twice), Affinity, Bogles, and Storm.
Here's what I've been playing. I haven't revisited it for OGW yet, and the sideboard hasn't been updated to reflect the bans, but I'm looking to test Captain's Claws, Oath of Gideon, and Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. It's a pretty standard Naya list.
Thanks for sharing. Seems to overlap very heavily with my list which makes me happy
I can see how Lantern Control can get the lock in place in time...not sure how we beat Ensnaring Bridge without removing it. I've had some decent luck with Grixis myself, I've won and lost matches. Sometimes we're just too fast for them. The good thing for us is that they don't run any sweepers MD and usually only 0-1 Damnation + 0-1 Anger of the Gods in the side (at least from my experience)...and yes, Torpor Orb basically just straight up wins against us.
As for the OGW cards you've mentioned: Captain's Claws was mentioned earlier in the thread. I haven't tried it myself and I'm kind of on edge if it will just be too neat and slow. But I should give it a try, I definitely see the potential. Gideon, Ally of Zendikar has seemed too slow for me recently. It obviously depends on your meta, it's amazing in grindy games, but there's so much fast aggro right now (Zoo, Burn, Affinity, Elves, Merfolk, Delver, ...) I always find myself boarding it out so will likely cut it.
I did try Oath of Gideon but it didn't have enough of an immediate impact for me. The bodies it left behind weren't significant enough, despite it triggering everyone twice when it was played.
But please give the cards a go and let us know how it goes. Personally I'm probably going to try more Oran-Rief Survivalist next, since that seems to be what everyone else is running 4 of
I'm running 2 firemantle mage main and he has been really good to push extra damage, sometimes you can cast him before evangel to lure removal towards him and next turn slam an evangel.
Have anyone considered testing reckless bushwhacker? I would like him as 5-7th Battlesinger.
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1 Captain's Claws
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
is probably going to serve you better than hoping to hit one off the top with Stoneforge Acolyte.
Modern:
Bant Eldrazi
Merfolk
Abzan Company
EDH:
Mono-Green Omnath
Mono-White Odric Soup
Mono-Blue Muzzio
Mono-Red Feldon
Steelshaper’s gift is good but I’d rather have the ½ body of the acolyte on the board that not only benefits from all the ally triggers from claws but also triggers abilities itself when it enters the board. The Sword of feast and famine is also good, but I’d rather have the claws since every activation grants triggers, and another body on the board who also benefits from the triggers. I don’t even really see the claws as a “win more” card since even with a small number of allies the triggers they grant plus the body can be a huge tempo swing. This deck loves to overrun, and the claws really enable that.
Personally think that the equipment package is better in an EDH setting, rather than for Modern. I may be wrong though, but I feel that equipment package is a little slow comparing to what Allys can do on their own.
RIP: GWU Midrange (2012-2013) | GWR Ally (2014-2016)
Modern:
Bant Eldrazi
Merfolk
Abzan Company
EDH:
Mono-Green Omnath
Mono-White Odric Soup
Mono-Blue Muzzio
Mono-Red Feldon
I played the following list:
4 Hada Freeblade
4 Expedition Envoy
4 Kazandu Blademaster
4 Akoum Battlesinger
2 Harabaz Druid
2 Jwari Shapeshifter
1 Kor Bladewhirl
4 Kabira Evangel
3 Lantern Scout
1 Firemantle Mage
1 Mirror Entity
4 Aether Vial
4 Collected Company
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Lands (21)
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ally Encampment
4 Windswept Heath
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Temple Garden
1 Stomping Ground
3 Plains
1 Forest
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Lantern Scout
1 Ondu Cleric
4 Path to Exile
2 Stony Silence
2 Crumble to Dust
1 Ancient Grudge
To preface this: The sideboard is quite random as I had to redo it (My LGS decided to play with the changes from Friday already in effect, so Twin and Bloom banned, OGW legal). My local meta used to be a lot of Twin, Burn and Affinity so I set up for the latter 2 and the expected rise of Tron.
I went 3-1 and came second, losing to BW Eldrazi and beating Scapeshift, Kiki Chord and Abzan Collected. Can't remember all the details so I'll just put some notes with each match...
Round 1 (2-0 vs. Abzan Collected)
Allies is much, much faster. G1 i had Bladewhirl + Battlesinger + a Shapeshifter copying Battlesinger and there was no way he could deal with so much First Striking Power in combat. G2 I had quite a slow hand but 2 Evangels so he barely ever blocked so the game still ended quickly.
SB: -4 Expedition Envoy, +4 Path to Exile.
Round 2 (2-0 vs. Scapeshift)
G1 I had a Vial into Freeblade + Battlesinger and another Battlesinger + Blademaster...he blocked with a Tribe-Elder but was already at 3 or so...An Evangel secured the turn 4 Kill. G2 I wasn't as fast but had a solid clock out and a vial on 3 with an Evangel in hand. He had to Bring to Light for an Anger of the Gods on 6 Lands and I just vialed in Evangel and won.
SB: -1 Gideon, -1 Firemantle Mage, -1 Kor Bladewhirl, -1 Mirror Entity, +2 Crumble to Dust, +2 Thalia
Round 3 (0-2 vs. BW Eldrazi)
G1 he had the nuts...T1 Relic, T2 Thought-Knot Seer, T3 Oblivion Sower, T4 Ulamog, T5 Double Reality Smasher...yeah, not sure how anyone beats that kind of a curve. G2 he started off with a Seer on T2. I had T1 Vial, T2 Freeblade + Battlesinger, T3 Path for the Seer + Shapeshifter to copy the Battlesinger, so hit pretty hard and put him at 6. But he then cracked a Relic, got a Blight Herder and started gumming up the board with Tokens and soon after huge 5/5, 5/8 and such...needless to say they're colourless so I was basically drawing for a Firemantle Mage because Menace would have forced through the last few points of damage...but didn't get there. Died to Ulamog instead.
SB: -4 Kabira Evangel, -2 Expedition Envoy, +2 Crumble to Dust, +4 Path to Exile
Round 4 (2-1 vs. Kiki-Chord)
G1 I eventually won with Druid + Mirror Entity presenting a board full of 7/7 which they can only chump block and that not for long. Lost G2. He had 2 Pia & Kiran Nalaars and Resto-flickered on one of them twice...so many colorless Thopter tokens...he managed to stall me out long enough to combo off and I didn't have a path. G3 was fairly long and grindy...he had 3 Paths and a Helix and a Witness to buy back a Path...he eventually played a Kiki (last card in Hand) with a Witness on board. I was holding to paths so patched the witness in response and then the Kiki at EOT. His board was a lonely Birds after. I had slow rolled an Evangel through all his removal and playing it there was game. That game I used 2 Ally Encampments to bounce my guys and protect them from removal as I was quite land heavy and the game was grindy...
SB: -4 Expedition Envoy, +4 Path to Exile
Didn't play against Burn, Tron or Affinity which were the decks I expected but most of those people weren't there that night and I didn't play against the others. Overall this deck seems to have a very solid creature matchup because Evangel is nuts and most of our guys can outgrow nearly anything. As always it's vulnerable to sweepers and doesn't like to see spot removal but can work through it. The combo matchup is decent, depending. Our clock is one of the fastest...T4 kills are very common if my opponent is only sculpting his hand...No idea how to win that Eldrazi match though...
I'm still not sure on Gideon. I never played him last night and only drew him once, but also had a Company, played that first and won. He's kind of slow sometimes, but dropping a 2/2 every turn that also triggers all our guys seems amazing in some matchups...Too bad the Allies in OGW are absolutely useless and the ones from BFZ are almost all useless If only they gave us the same sort of toys they gave Eldrazi...and I want to add 1 or 2 Mutavault since I think the mana will still be more than good enough.
Oh well, still a fun deck and no one knows what to expect when playing against it.
If you're going to board in those 8 cards you may as well play the vials and just board them out. They're still really good for flooding the board, instant speed tricks, etc....but I think having a playset of each of those is most likely overboard anyways.
Both cards give uncounterability. We'll have to wait and see how the meta ends up shaping up now, but with the premier control deck in Splinter Twin gone there is a lot less countermagic around.
Basically what I want to say is that Cavern does 2 things: Fix your mana and protect your creatures from countermagic. The first can be replaced, the second not so much but it's also no longer as relevant as it was (despite still being really good). Meanwhile Vial does 4 things: Fix your mana, accelerate your game plan, give you the option of playing creatures at instant speed and protect your creatures from countermagic. So on a budget, also considering that caverns are twice as much as vials, I'd definitely go for Vials first.
4x Akoum Battlesinger
4x Expedition Envoy
2x Firemantle Mage
4x Hada Freeblade
4x Harabaz Druid
4x Kabira Evangel
4x Kazandu Blademaster
2x Lantern Scout
1x Mirror Entity
3x Oran-Rief Survivalist
Instant (4)
4x Collected Company
4x Ally Encampment
1x Arid Mesa
4x Cavern of Souls
1x Forest
2x Plains
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Stomping Ground
1x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
Artifact (4)
4x AEther Vial
2x Crumble to Dust
2x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Natural State
1x Ondu Cleric
2x Return to the Ranks
2x Spellskite
1x Stony Silence
3x Suppression Field
2x Crumble to Dust: Tron is a very weak match up. So this needs to go 2-off. I suspect Eldrazi match-ups will be quite bad as well, so I'm playing this.
2x Leyline of Sanctity: Stops Burn, Combo decks, hand disruptions by Jund/Abzan/Eldrazi/racks
2x Natural State: Artifact/enchantment removal. Pack these against Blood Moon, Affinity, AURA.
1x Ondu Cleric: Support against Burn, Zoo, Aura. Life gain essentially.
2x Spellskite: Stops Burn, Scapeshift to an extend, Hoses Aura... More to look into this. But, they still deserve to be in here!
1x Stony silence: Artifact hate. Enough said.
3x Suppression Field: Stops Fetchlands, activated abilities. That's 80% of the meta decks. Why not?
Please help review my deck overall and tell me if there is any room for improvement.
RIP: GWU Midrange (2012-2013) | GWR Ally (2014-2016)
I wouldn't run a full set of Harabaz Druid. In my experience the card is really bad in multiples and your list doesn't run any 4 drops other than CoCo, so I don't see the need for so much mana ramp. In my experience the card is sometimes even bad when you only draw 1 of them. It's weird, it seems it can't be good, only bad or amazing...either it taps for mana about once and then sits there for the rest of the game, or it does something ridiculous like vomiting 5-6 allies onto the battlefield in the following 2 turns or making everything huge with Mirror Entity...but yeah, I don't think we should run more than 2.
On another note:
I've now had the time to read through the entire topic and it seems like there have been 2 main camps for Ally decks in modern so far: An Abzan list oriented around +1/+1 counters, which runs Hardened Scales and therefore makes cards like Bojuka Brigand, Abzan Falconer and Champion of the Parish strong. The Second list focuses more on Rally triggers and relies more heavily on Aether Vial and Akoum Battlesinger.
With the (shockingly bad) new allies we got in BFZ and OGW only the second strategy got any support and therefore seems to be emerging as the more played one, simply because of its blistering pace, which is what I think makes Allies viable in Modern. So it looks like most lists will now be Naya focused, possibly splashing colors for Allies only, e.g. Jwari Shapeshifter.
To optimise the Naya list it looks like these are the strongest cards and auto includes:
4 Hada Freeblade
4 Expedition Envoy
4 Kazandu Blademaster
4 Akoum Battlesinger
4 Kabira Evangel
4 Aether Vial
4 Collected Company
Lands (12)
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ally Encampment
4 Windswept Heath
Manabase:
4 Cavern
4 Encampment
4 Windswept
1 Forest
2-3 Plains
3-4 Shocks
0-2 Mutavault
Should look something like the above. I really want to run 2 Mutavault, I think the mana should still be good enough with all the fixing we have. The only challenging cost is WW for Blademaster on T2 which should be ok with only 3 non-white-producing lands (2 Vauls, 1 Forest).
Are 20 Lands enough? I feel like they are with 4 Vials and 0-2 Druids, but I'm not sure
Non-Creatures:
Because of Company we can only run a very limited amount here. With Twin banned I think we can pass up on maindeck interaction to focus on speed and consistency. Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is a consideration here as 1-2 copies.
Creatures:
The 20 above seem mandatory. I think Expedition Envoy while not being a great card is still needed to give the deck enough 1-drops to curve out aggressively and provide cheap triggers later on. This leaves us with about 10-12 Creaturesspots left to decide upon.
Candidates:
Oran-Rief Survivalist provides the biggest body
Kor Bladewhirl is actually amazing with Akoum Battlesinger. Very relevant in creature matches, quite bad otherwise
Lantern Scout good card and in every list i think, only question is how many. Thrives vs. Burn and Aggro while still being live vs. Scapeshift, BGx, etc...
Harabaz Druid Enables T3 Company and accelerates dumping your hand onto the table. Hit and miss, bad in multiples. Great with Entity
Mirror Entity Often a 1 of mana sink, amazing with Druid
Firemantle Mage Additional, albeit worse, copies of Kabira Evangel
Jwari Shapeshifter Huge upside being more copies of our best allies, especially Battlesinger being ridiculous in multiples. Requires other allies already, preferably more than 1 to not risk getting blown out. Bad in multiples since you will have less other allies to copy.
So that's my question: How would you fill up the remaining slots? Oh and feel free to disagree with all the things I said before that, discussion is what leads to improvement
Other cards up for consideration would be singleton Boros Charm or the 3rd Oran-Rief Survivalist. Maybe Gideon, Ally of Zendikar can be considered, but I personally don't really like him as he is very situational. He is great in sustaining mid to late games, but he's really bad if you have a poor board-state or getting overwhelmed on the other side.
A word on Expedition Envoy: Don't let the lack of Rally fool you! sHe's incredibly powerful and can match the power of Hada Freeblade in the first 3 turns. You definitely need this if you are not running Hardened Scales/Champion of the Parish synergy. As you said, the second reason why this card is good is for the cheap ETB triggers later on.
As far as I can think, 2x Lantern Scout is optimal in maindeck
RIP: GWU Midrange (2012-2013) | GWR Ally (2014-2016)
4 expedition envoy
4 hada freeblade
4 ondu cleric
4 kalastria healer
4 kazandu blademaster
2 mirror entity
4 cliffhaven vampire
instants: 8
4 cloudshift
4 ghostway
4 ally encampment
4 cavern of souls
4 mutavault
4 godless shrine
4 marsh flats
4 plains
So the goal is to drain life the opponent with kalastria healer and cliffhaven vampire, in addition to the beatdown plan. In some matches you can just gain tons of life and get out of some combo decks range, of just beat aggro/burn.
This list is just a first draft, if you have ideas to improve it i'd love to ear them.
I'd still want to run 4 Kabira Evangel in your shell, it's amazing with Cloudshift for example, to give all your allies protection at instant speed. Plus it's just a great card, allowing you to ignore blockers a lot of the time.
March from the Tomb MB? I know it looks like a sideboard material, but I just guess it's worth a try actually.
RIP: GWU Midrange (2012-2013) | GWR Ally (2014-2016)
4x AEther Vial
4x Collected Company
4x Akoum Battlesinger
4x Hada Freeblade
3x Jwari Shapeshifter
4x Kabira Evangel
4x Kazandu Blademaster
Flex Creature Spots:
2x Kor Bladewhirl
2x Lantern Scout
2x Firemantle Mage
2x expedition envoy
2x Path to Exile
2x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2x Lead the Stampede
Land (19)
4x Ally Encampment
1x Forest
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Plains
2x Sacred Foundry
1x Stomping Ground
1x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
2 firespout
2 kor firewalker
2 path to exile
2 lantern scout
2 return to the ranks
2 kataki, war's wage
1 choke
2 suppression field
Choices:
Oran-Rief Survivalist to be nice, but I just need some place to cut.
Expedition Envoy - Am currently trying 2. Hard to say.
Path to Exile - Constantly going to 4 paths, and then back down.
Just changed the land base to better support Gideon, and giving him a try. Dropped two caverns. Did not see him in 4 rounds of Modern last night.
Lead the stampede is insane.
Would like to try oath of gideon. Just not sure its better than LtS.
Sideboard: Needs huge changes. I tried the firespouts last night, and they did not disappoint. Need to figure out a way to stop torpor orb (destroyed me last night in game 3 against delver/prowess, first time i've had it played against me), and eldrazi. Perhaps reclamation sage?
Would love some constructed thoughts on the list.
4 Hada Freeblade
4 Expedition Envoy
4 Akoum Battlesinger
4 Kazandu Blademaster
2 Jwari Shapeshifter
2 Harabaz Druid
2 Kor Bladewhirl
1 Oran-Rief Survivalist
4 Kabira Evangel
2 Lantern Scout
1 Mirror Entity
1 Firemantle Mage
4 Æther Vial
4 Collected Company
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Lands (20)
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ally Encampment
4 Windswept Heath
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Temple Garden
2 Plains
1 Forest
1 Mutavault
//this changes all the time. Obviously dependant on local meta
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Ondu Cleric
2 Lantern Scout
2 Return to the Ranks
2 Stony Silence
2 Crumble to Dust
4 Path to Exile
A) 19 Lands
Seems very low. I only recently cut down to 20 myself. You're running only 19 and 8 fetches, thining your deck a lot (this actually makes a lot more difference than people commonly believe). With that reaching your 6 4-mana spells seems kind of inconsistent for me. Have you ever had trouble?
B) Path/Envoy
While Envoy isn't quite what I was hoping for from BFZ/OGW it's still a 1 drop 2 power ally which is solid. My list is built to be as aggressive as possible G1, which makes the additional 1-drops really shine. Plus they're allies so never a dead draw. Path on the other hand gives you an actual answer and inspires you to play slower and more grindy. I think both styles have their merit in certain matches, which is why I run 4 Path in the board, often replacing my Envoys. Having access to both is good but a 2/2 split mains seems to make it kind of a lottery which strategy you hit. If you're going all in as fast as possible and top deck a path you'll likely be disappointed...if you decide to play a little slower and play an attrition game and draw an Envoy you might not be happy either. Of course there's situations where you'll benefit from having the chance of drawing a main-deck path for example, but it splits your game plan...if you know what I mean. Obviously a minor point, I'm not sure what's better myself and the whole thing changes post board anyway...
C) Total non-creatures
The power of allies IMO comes from the blistering and consistent pace along with ways to ignore blockers. And CoCo inspires as high a creature count as possible. So how has running 14 non-creatures MB been for you? I like Lead the Stampede, I used to run it myself, it just feels so slow How has it performed? I think it depends on your meta obviously...guessing if you have a lot of attrition matches like BGx they'll be amazing...
D) Gideon
It's not worth dropping Caverns for Gideon. Really, he's good in grindy games like BGx, which can barely remove him or keep up with him...but in most matches I'll be happier casting CoCo or even a 3-drop like Evangel over Gideon...
E) Sideboard
This is very hard atm without us knowing the post-Twin meta well. We all expect a lot of Tron/Eldrazi, but those decks fold to linear aggro fairly often...and the last SCG Modern Series had a top8 (in order) of RUG Delver, Jund, Merfolk, Menfolk, Affinity, Affinity, Burn, Zoo...but I guess local meta is a bigger player for most of us.
General rule is that creatures are better than non-creatures for us...especially allies (Ally triggers, aggressive style, CoCo). That's something I need to work on myself in the board...
Regarding what you said about your local meta:
vs. Delver/Prowess:
Firespout is interesting. Seems reasonable to run depending on the decks. How much of their stuff does it kill? I imagine it not hitting much other than Delver...what am I missing?
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is a monster. These lists generally run about 20 lands with 10+ fetches and around 25 mostly 1 mana spells...yeah, you get what I mean. Just make sure to name Human on your Caverns post-board (Shapeshifter and Bladewhirl are the only non-humans in the deck and Shapeshifter should be cut vs them anyway). And it messes with their heads if you name Ally G1 and Human G2
Return to the Ranks or the likes (March from the Tomb, Immortal Servitude) are great if you often find a lot of creatures in your graveyard
Slow things with low immediate board impact should be cut here. Shapeshifter is very risky with all the cheap interaction they run. You can easily find your 2 creatures Bolted/Snaged in response and the Shapeshifter just dying...
vs. Eldrazi/Tron
Crumble to Dust is very good against Tron, nowhere near as good vs. Eldrazi
Path to Exile should probably become a playset post board to remove the big critters
Stony Silence is good vs. Tron as it slows them down a lot
basically we want to go under them which is easier vs. Tron. Eldrazi can curve out ridiculously and we can barely get through. Evangel is really bad vs. Eldrazi but not as bad vs Tron because of stuff like Pyroclasm.
Leyline of Sanctity shuts down a lot of the discard/processing the Eldrazi decks do and is obviously very useful otherwise. That being said if it's not in your starting hand it'll likely be to late to help
In your sideboard:
Suppression Field is odd. I imagine you'll be cutting the Vials, but you still have 8 fetch-lands...Stony Silence just seems better in that case...
Choke can be a real blow out, but where do you actually need it? It's a 3-mana enchantment...you'll spend a whole turn playing it, likely against a blue tempo deck that can just counter it and profit massively from you slowing down so much...
Just my 2 cents...hope this opens up a discussion
I should get some more testing and a small tournament in tomorrow...
Edit: Reclamation Sage does not destroy Torpor Orb by the way. Qasali Pridemage is the choice if you want a creature, Ancient Grudge and Wear // Tear are your non-creature alternatives...
Yeah i actually thought of running return to the ranks or rally the ancestors alongside halimar excavator for even more comboey shennanigans. i'm not sure they are better than the ghostway engine, i'll have to start testing it. Bringing back lots of ally for tons of triggers either ways seems very sweet
Tried a lot of blink effects in my casual days. Ghostway is a very very sick card. I had 2 pieces when it was $3. Cloudshift works as well. Immortal servitude? I'm just throwing out ideas now. You can consider clone effects like phantasmal image, Shapesharer to copy and have more Halimar Excavator. If not just consider ramping and play rite of replication
RIP: GWU Midrange (2012-2013) | GWR Ally (2014-2016)
Phantasmal Image and Jwari Shapeshifter don't actually work with Ghostway and don't work as well with Rally the Ancestors / March from the Tomb / Return to the Ranks. You can't copy a creature that enters the battlefield at the same time as yourself. It has to already be there.
Rite of Replication seems to take the deck out of modern competitive viability...
That life gain/drain list seems too mixed to me already, I'd refrain from adding mill to it as well. If you want to go that route you should probably go all in on a combo kill. But I'd love to hear some results from the gain/drain list...How have your results been with the gain/drain list? To me it just seems really slow compared to a straight aggro list...
I've only played three small tourneys with Allies, but the only time in 10 matches I've lost to a non-control deck, it was to a one-of Torpor Orb the guy had in his Zoo sideboard for the Twin matchup. He drew it literally the turn before I would have won game 3, and he ended up winning in extra turns.
Reclamation Sage won't work because the Orb shuts off the effect that would destroy it. Qasali Pridemage is probably the best creature-based bet here.
Haha i haven't played the deck yet, i was just brainstorming and looking for suggestions before i actually sleeve it up. I did goldfish a bit with it and it plays a lot like the abzan ascendancy deck (or aristocrats or whatever). I'll make sure to come back and post results when i try it in an actual tournament.
Sounds like an impressive record. I'd love to see the decklist and what decks you played against Still fine-tuning mine.
Speaking of, here's another report from tonights modern...
4 Hada Freeblade
4 Expedition Envoy
4 Kazandu Blademaster
4 Akoum Battlesinger
2 Harabaz Druid
2 Kor Bladewhirl
1 Oran-Rief Survivalist
4 Kabira Evangel
2 Lantern Scout
1 Mirror Entity
1 Firemantle Mage
4 Aether Vial
4 Collected Company
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Lands (20)
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ally Encampment
4 Windswept Heath
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Temple Garden
1 Forest
2 Plains
1 Mutavault
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Lantern Scout
1 Ondu Cleric
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Stony Silence
2 Crumble to Dust
4 Path to Exile
before the tournament I did some testing:
Played 4 games vs. RUG Delver (the exact list Todd Anderson won the last SCG even with). Won all games (all pre-board)
Matchup is great for us imo...had a lot of Vial + Evangel interactions here which were very strong. Evangel was clearly the best card in the matchup.
Played 3 games vs. RG Tron, won 1, lost 2, all pre-board
Won first game by simply going underneath him. T3 Wormcoil, T4 O-Stone wasn't enough.
Lost second game on the draw to natural tron, T3 Karn, T4 Ugin. No chance at all.
Lost third game to T4 O-Stone, T5 Ugin just about stabilising.
Matchup is very winnable pre-board, probably better post board for us.
For the actual tournament: Went 2-2 Was very unhappy with what my deck churned up for me, I had to take so many mulligans, literally 70% of my hands had 0-1 lands in them. I cut down from 21 to 20 this week but I refuse to believe it made such a huge difference. In addition, I missed on CoCo stupidly often. Hit nothing twice and one thing 3 times with around 6-7 regular hits. That's dumb if the chance of hitting 2 creatures is 95-96%.
Round 1 (1-2 vs. Affinity)
Lost G1 on the draw. Mulligan to 6. Very close. I untapped on my T4 at 8 life and 2 poison...He was at 14. I could have activated Mutavault and played Battlesinger, attacking for 13 or cast CoCo and hoped to hit I think Double Battlesinger as my only out. I chose to cast Lantern Scout instead, meaning I would win unless I got poison killed next turn (he had a Ravager out but was 2 artifacts short, 1 card in hand). Needless to say he got there with an artifact in hand and off the top.
Won G2 on the play with a good hand to an average one of his. Had Vial into Envoy+Battlesinger into Battlesinger+Blademaster and a T4 win with Firemantle Mage.
Lost G3 on a Mulligan to 5. Very close again, could have won around T4/5 if I drew a land to cast Ancient Grudge with, but never drew it the whole game. We were eventually both in top deck mode looking for a way to kill...he was at 3 but had too many blockers, I was in the 20s with 9 poison. He drew Ghirapur Æther Grid the turn before I drew Kataki, War's Wage. Was quite frustrating since he got to ping down my Kataki, then drew the Inkmoth and won next turn.
SB: -1 Gideon, -2 Bladewhirl, -4 Evangel, +4 Path, +2 Stony Silence, +1 Ancient Grudge
Round 2 (2-0 vs. Elves)
Fairly easy matchup. Our deck is clearly faster and Evangel is stupidly good. Mulliganed twice btw...
SB: -1 Gideon, +1 Lantern Scout
Round 3 (2-1 vs. Naya Burn)
Won G1 thanks to 6 life from a Lantern Scout attack (it got nuked immediately though) and a vial-Evangel on blocks to not die followed by a lethal attack the other way.
Lost G2 on a mulligan to 5 stuck on 1 land for about 4 turns. If i hit my second land around turn 3 I could maybe still have won but wasn't meant to be.
Won G3 on a mull to 6, managed to race him with 2 Battlesingers and an Image copying one providing insane power boosts...
Round 4 (1-2 vs. BW Eldrazi)
Lost G1 on the draw and a mulligan. Kept Cavern, Vial, Freeblade, Druid, Kazandu, Firemantle. Inquisition took my Vial T1 and i hit my 2nd land on turn 6. His draw was very suboptimal (obviously, seeing as i was still alive by then). Would have easily won with my second land on turn 3 or 4 or without losing my Vial.
Won G2 on the play, another mulligan. Won T3 against a slow start.
Lost G3, was very tight. Ended up quite stalled but I had Firemantle Mage out so any Ally was lethal for 3 turns. Drew land, land, Vial (obviously) while my opponent drew 2 consecutive Reality Smasher followed by an Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger to seal the deal. Should have won that game, we both agreed.
Overall, deck is still strong. Lost the 2 matchups where Kabira is bad, showing once again it's the best card in the deck. I think I took 11 mulligans in the 12 rounds I played, 9 of them being on 0-1 land and the other being 7 lands and a hand with Mutavault+Forest+3 Blademaster+Freeblade+Gideon. Lost top decking wars for both my losses. On another day I would have gone 4-0. (Sorry if I sound salty, I'm actually not, just trying to state that the deck is better than it was given credit tonight)
Seeing as how horrible my mana was I think I'll go back up to 21 lands.
Played Oran-Rief Survivalist once and it was very uninspiring...not bad, just not good either
Had some good moments with Kor Bladewhirl and Akoum Battlesinger, but Bladewhirl on its own still doesn't fill me with confidence.
A playset of Expedition Envoy is now set in stone for me. The additional 1-drops really are great.
No MD removal has worked out fine.
Firemantle Mage overperformed, will likely go up to 2.
Mirror Entity underperformed, it would have been great twice, but by those points I'd already won. It feels more like win-more than say an Evangel literally winning you the game.
Collected Company underperformed massively, but I don't think it's a bad card, just flipping over Gideon, 3 CoCos, a Vial and a Land doesn't help
Crumble to Dust sucks against Eldrazi and might not be where we want to be vs. Tron either. I feel we need to win before that...A cheap way to delay Ugin/Karn/O-Stone for a turn would do us much more favours.
I played my list at two Modern side events at GPSeaTac (100+ people each), and went 2-1 and 3-1 in matches played. (Two IDs, one no-show.) Also took it to a local moderately competitive local event (50-ish people) and went 2-1 before having to head home early.
My losses have been to Naya Zoo (went to turns, Torpor Orb killed me), Grixis Control (first time in that matchup, didn't feel competitive - need practice here), and Lantern Control (nearly got her both games, but couldn't close out before she got the lock in place.) I've beaten Elves, 5C Zoo, U/R Twin (twice), Affinity, Bogles, and Storm.
Here's what I've been playing. I haven't revisited it for OGW yet, and the sideboard hasn't been updated to reflect the bans, but I'm looking to test Captain's Claws, Oath of Gideon, and Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. It's a pretty standard Naya list.
2 Arid Mesa
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Forest
2 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Stomping Ground
3 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Aether Vial
4 Expedition Envoy
1 Firemantle Mage
4 Hada Freeblade
4 Kabira Evangel
4 Kazandu Blademaster
2 Kor Bladewhirl
2 Lantern Scout
4 Oran-Rief Survivalist
1 Return to the Ranks
4 Collected Company
1 Choke
1 Firemantle Mage
2 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Ondu Cleric
3 Path to Exile
2 Return to the Ranks
2 Spellskite
2 Stony Silence
I can see how Lantern Control can get the lock in place in time...not sure how we beat Ensnaring Bridge without removing it. I've had some decent luck with Grixis myself, I've won and lost matches. Sometimes we're just too fast for them. The good thing for us is that they don't run any sweepers MD and usually only 0-1 Damnation + 0-1 Anger of the Gods in the side (at least from my experience)...and yes, Torpor Orb basically just straight up wins against us.
As for the OGW cards you've mentioned:
Captain's Claws was mentioned earlier in the thread. I haven't tried it myself and I'm kind of on edge if it will just be too neat and slow. But I should give it a try, I definitely see the potential.
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar has seemed too slow for me recently. It obviously depends on your meta, it's amazing in grindy games, but there's so much fast aggro right now (Zoo, Burn, Affinity, Elves, Merfolk, Delver, ...) I always find myself boarding it out so will likely cut it.
I did try Oath of Gideon but it didn't have enough of an immediate impact for me. The bodies it left behind weren't significant enough, despite it triggering everyone twice when it was played.
But please give the cards a go and let us know how it goes. Personally I'm probably going to try more Oran-Rief Survivalist next, since that seems to be what everyone else is running 4 of
I've been running 2 Gideon, ally of zendikar and 2 return to the ranks in the side for the attrition based matchups like BGx and Grixis control and been really good. Captain's claws could have the same role in the side but I don't think that its CMC justify switching gideon for them. And on the main they just seem off curve, I would prefer casting kabira evangel, Firemantle mage or Lantern scout.
I'm running 2 firemantle mage main and he has been really good to push extra damage, sometimes you can cast him before evangel to lure removal towards him and next turn slam an evangel.
Have anyone considered testing reckless bushwhacker? I would like him as 5-7th Battlesinger.