Have you guys considered running a Bitterblossom in the sideboard? It is near unbeatable for Twin and Grixis "Control", as well as providing a massive problem for BGx decks if they don't have Abrupt Decay in hand. I've been trying it in Esper Midrange and it works pretty well.
So i took the deck out to a local event last night and went 3/1 my only loss being to storm. Storm is super tough because without a bolt snap hand its just too slow. Even a turn 2 Tas only got me over the line due to his bad draws and a bolt snap hand just edging me into game 2 win. Game 3 was a slaugher however. After this im concidering 2 Rakdos Charm for the side. Against storm it seems pretty good shutting down an Empty the Warens win or taking out their graveyard so hey can't Past in Flames. Tell me what you think.
Someone asked about my 4-drops, I've been playing with a Cryptic in the main and a Slaughter Games in the side which have both performed on and off. Often times they are the only thing you can play for the turn and especially innthe case of slaughter games you lose a lot of tempo and it feels like the speed would often be nicer.
Also I've been running no Gurmags but 3 Tasigurs and 2 Lili Mainboard. For anyone looking for extra slots concider these they have serviced me perfectly reasonably at these numbers. Really want to test Jace but that price tag is INSANE atm so im holding off for a drop.
So i took the deck out to a local event last night and went 3/1 my only loss being to storm. Storm is super tough because without a bolt snap hand its just too slow. Even a turn 2 Tas only got me over the line due to his bad draws and a bolt snap hand just edging me into game 2 win. Game 3 was a slaugher however. After this im concidering 2 Rakdos Charm for the side. Against storm it seems pretty good shutting down an Empty the Warens win or taking out their graveyard so hey can't Past in Flames. Tell me what you think.
Someone asked about my 4-drops, I've been playing with a Cryptic in the main and a Slaughter Games in the side which have both performed on and off. Often times they are the only thing you can play for the turn and especially innthe case of slaughter games you lose a lot of tempo and it feels like the speed would often be nicer.
Also I've been running no Gurmags but 3 Tasigurs and 2 Lili Mainboard. For anyone looking for extra slots concider these they have serviced me perfectly reasonably at these numbers. Really want to test Jace but that price tag is INSANE atm so im holding off for a drop.
I think you are overreacting to a single loss. Storm sees almost no play nowadays and you probably don't have to sideboard against it.
So i took the deck out to a local event last night and went 3/1 my only loss being to storm. Storm is super tough because without a bolt snap hand its just too slow. Even a turn 2 Tas only got me over the line due to his bad draws and a bolt snap hand just edging me into game 2 win. Game 3 was a slaugher however. After this im concidering 2 Rakdos Charm for the side. Against storm it seems pretty good shutting down an Empty the Warens win or taking out their graveyard so hey can't Past in Flames. Tell me what you think.
Someone asked about my 4-drops, I've been playing with a Cryptic in the main and a Slaughter Games in the side which have both performed on and off. Often times they are the only thing you can play for the turn and especially innthe case of slaughter games you lose a lot of tempo and it feels like the speed would often be nicer.
Also I've been running no Gurmags but 3 Tasigurs and 2 Lili Mainboard. For anyone looking for extra slots concider these they have serviced me perfectly reasonably at these numbers. Really want to test Jace but that price tag is INSANE atm so im holding off for a drop.
I think you are overreacting to a single loss. Storm sees almost no play nowadays and you probably don't have to sideboard against it.
I agree. You might be served by more broad graveyard hate like leyline. In a deck like this we need to make the most of our sideboard spots (I'm pretty concerned about the burn matchup - I've played all of the Grixis shells and this one seems to have the worst burn matchup by far), and storm isn't a huge part of the meta that you need specific answers for it.
Why cryptic? It seems to be a non-Bo with basically our entire deck.
Forcing in cryptic is largely favouritism towards the card, but flipping it off abbot if you can cast it is stil alright all of the modes bar counter are pretty useful and even counter means they are less likely to disrupt the turn with removal or the such. However this does require bbb in 4 mana after casting abbot. Pretty magical christmas for sure. I will end up cutting in any "serious" event but it's enouh fun for casual games and wendsday niht modern events.
But i should be more specific on the burn at that particular store there are sometimes up to 4 storm decks at a time. I was ,ore curious as to suggestions on cards i could keep handy and huck in if i see a few of the players i know are on storm in on a night.
Also on the note of burn what about Monastery Seige? Dragons mode doesn't shut them down entirely but gives you a few extra turns at the least. Plus getting multoples is devastating and the alternate Khans mode could be relevant against control match ups? Used to run it back when I was playing grixis delver as a 3 of for screwing with the rediculous amount of burn at my LGS.
@hawkremix- I think the deck shines in grindy matches, and doesn't really need help there. I would probably just find room for another vampiric link if you want more burn hate. The fact that it only costs 1 is huge, and if you can get it on their eidolon or your tas/angler, then you will very likely win. (Or in a pinch you can use it like a 1 mana pacifism even)
I'm of a similar mind against both decks. Storm is just not played very often nowadays, and if you are able to land a few discard spells you should be able to just kill them before they go off. Burn is never going to be great, but again, some discard spells plus vampiric link can do the job, sometimes even just a t2 angler or tasigur is enough to beat them if they flood even a little.
I went to a standard tournament last night and was able to jam some games with this deck in between rounds. Cast my first rise / fall ever and man, does that card do some work. I'm sad now that I haven't played it yet in previous grixis shells I've tried. I'm really enjoying the play style of this deck but I can tell I'm going to need to play test a lot to be confident in the lines of play I'm making. There are a LOT of options every turn (which I love) and I think it will really reward play skill and familiarity more so than a lot of other archetypes out there.
Don't feel bad about never having cast rise/fall before this deck - it really doesn't work in any of the other shells because of the sorcery speed aspect. The other 3 shells shine when they operate almost entirely at instant speed.
I think if you are going to play a grindy 5 drop in this deck you want Mulldrifter. With Abbot and the lowland count, I don't think you want to try to jam Keranos. Mulldrifter on the other hand isn't hard to cast off of Abbot, and is ridiculous with Rise and Kcommand.
Rending volley seems superfluous with how good this deck is against twin.
Pack rat is probably reasonable, but like I've said earlier, this deck is REALLY good at grinding out the game. I'm not sure if narrow extra-grind cards in the board are needed. I have extra copies of Rise/Fall and KCommand because they are good in a lot of situations, and the long game is just one of them.
If you want graveyard hate I would probably look at nihil spellbomb. In general, I think that the low curve of the deck is one of it's strengths, and keeping that postboard is a good idea.
Interesting. I was on the fence about Keranos, for sure, though I kind of like rending volley. I realize we have a pretty strong game vs twin, but Volley is so bullet proof. I guess after playing the twin side of it so many times, I know how often I'm able to combo while holding up counter back up, and rending volley just shuts that down.
Mull drifter, however, sounds amazing. I'm going to make that swap for Keranos immediately, I love that idea. Pack rat can just win games by itself against some decks and I think I want to give it a chance. I think Nihil spellbomb is decent, but I'm interesting in giving the leyline a shot as a way to hose random living end or dredge decks that crop up, as well as being a value play against jund / junk. My current sideboard plan is as follows:
3x Fulminator Mage
2x Vampiric Link
1x Leyline of the Void
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Liliana of the Veil
1x Kolaghan’s Comand
1x Shatterstorm
1x Mulldrifter (was Keranos)
1x Rending Volley
1x Pack Rat
I would probably play Vandalblast over Shatterstorm for similar reasons as the Mulldrifter. Solid early play, easy to cast off Abbot (or flashback with snap or Jace) but then functions like a shatterstorm if you can make it that long.
I think part of why you didn't find rise/fall to be very exciting is because the hymn half is better earlier on, and oftentimes nuts if you draw multiple. Playing it on turn 3/4 is usually perfect, and that's why I think my 3 copies works well- I will usually see a rise/fall around then. The way that the deck plays, all of your opponents cards are good against us anyway, so hitting any card is usually fine, hitting 2 is fantastic because it is a disruption card that unlike inquisition or thoughtseize, is one of your BEST draws rather than your worst draws late game!
What I'm trying to say is keep at it, try to find room for the 3rd, (because seeing it early and often makes them even better) and I'm confident you will come around to it
Even bad hymn is nuts in modern, and Rise is hilarious with our creaturebase. The bounce turns on your thoughtseize again or liliana, and is really good against stuff like wurmcoil. (Usually you just need one more attack step against a wurmcoil deck to kill them). If you couldn't tell, I can't praise the card enough
My list is almost the exact same as yours, I just have the 3rd Rise/Fall over the 3rd Jace. I really like Jace too though... So many good cards!
How were you playing the Falls before, if I may ask? There are times that playing the Fall earlier is needed (against burn and affinity and such, or if you see their hand). If you see that your opponent misses a land drop, and you get to snap off a Fall, it is very hard for your opponent to come back.
The deck can usually just power through a relic. RIP and Leyline are brutal though, I admit. Luckily they aren't really played, and if your opponent has to play the leyline on 4 instead of it being in their opening hand, I think we can be just fine because of how much tempo our opponent will lose by casting it. Engineered explosives is usually reasonable against a deck that is going to bring in RIP (regardless of whether they draw the RIP or not). For leyline, if you REALLY want to have a card to deal with it (I'm not sure if it is worth it, it isn't even permanent) the only card I can think of is Grixis Charm. Again, the idea is that I don't think you want to play something super narrow, and Grixis Charm's other modes aren't fantastic, but it will let you bounce the enchantments while not being dead otherwise.
Yeah, turn 3/4 Fall is correct in most matchups. Usually by that time they will have ~4 cards in hand and probably 1 is a land. If you hit double land at this point, you either got really unlucky, or they are flooding pretty hard.
Explosives really should have a slot in the 75 almost no matter what. It just gives us a way to deal with random problem permanents, and while it is a little mana inefficient, the flexibility is great. Tokens, Fish, Affinity, Choke, Little Zoo, BOGLES, the list goes on.
For those considering running dedicated artifact hate in the sideboard: Rather than Vandalblast has anybody considered running Ingot Chewer? It's good for the same reasons as Vandalblast early, but is able to be brought back with Rise or Kolaghan's Command later for additional destruction.
Was planning to play this tonight if I went to FNM, but unfortunately I was not able to. Next time for sure though....
Snap and Jace can recur the Vandalblast, but really the overload option on vandalblast is what makes it insane. Being able to both shatter in the early game AND board wipe affinity later is great. I also love how I can bring vandalblast in against something like tron, but I wouldn't be able to bring shatterstorm in.
@griffin- I just got to live the dream. I thoughtseize on turn 3 against UW control, intending on clearing the way for tasigur. Instead I see he has no lands in hand (3 in play) only 1 counter and a bunch of paths, dspheres, verdicts, etc. So I take the counter, and instead of tasigur I fall him. Then then next turn I snap-fall him. He just scooped
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Someone asked about my 4-drops, I've been playing with a Cryptic in the main and a Slaughter Games in the side which have both performed on and off. Often times they are the only thing you can play for the turn and especially innthe case of slaughter games you lose a lot of tempo and it feels like the speed would often be nicer.
Also I've been running no Gurmags but 3 Tasigurs and 2 Lili Mainboard. For anyone looking for extra slots concider these they have serviced me perfectly reasonably at these numbers. Really want to test Jace but that price tag is INSANE atm so im holding off for a drop.
I think you are overreacting to a single loss. Storm sees almost no play nowadays and you probably don't have to sideboard against it.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I agree. You might be served by more broad graveyard hate like leyline. In a deck like this we need to make the most of our sideboard spots (I'm pretty concerned about the burn matchup - I've played all of the Grixis shells and this one seems to have the worst burn matchup by far), and storm isn't a huge part of the meta that you need specific answers for it.
Why cryptic? It seems to be a non-Bo with basically our entire deck.
But i should be more specific on the burn at that particular store there are sometimes up to 4 storm decks at a time. I was ,ore curious as to suggestions on cards i could keep handy and huck in if i see a few of the players i know are on storm in on a night.
Also on the note of burn what about Monastery Seige? Dragons mode doesn't shut them down entirely but gives you a few extra turns at the least. Plus getting multoples is devastating and the alternate Khans mode could be relevant against control match ups? Used to run it back when I was playing grixis delver as a 3 of for screwing with the rediculous amount of burn at my LGS.
I went to a standard tournament last night and was able to jam some games with this deck in between rounds. Cast my first rise / fall ever and man, does that card do some work. I'm sad now that I haven't played it yet in previous grixis shells I've tried. I'm really enjoying the play style of this deck but I can tell I'm going to need to play test a lot to be confident in the lines of play I'm making. There are a LOT of options every turn (which I love) and I think it will really reward play skill and familiarity more so than a lot of other archetypes out there.
Keranos, God of Storms
Rending Volley
Pack Rat
Leyline of the Void
Thinking about running all of these as singletons in my board.
Rending volley seems superfluous with how good this deck is against twin.
Pack rat is probably reasonable, but like I've said earlier, this deck is REALLY good at grinding out the game. I'm not sure if narrow extra-grind cards in the board are needed. I have extra copies of Rise/Fall and KCommand because they are good in a lot of situations, and the long game is just one of them.
If you want graveyard hate I would probably look at nihil spellbomb. In general, I think that the low curve of the deck is one of it's strengths, and keeping that postboard is a good idea.
Mull drifter, however, sounds amazing. I'm going to make that swap for Keranos immediately, I love that idea. Pack rat can just win games by itself against some decks and I think I want to give it a chance. I think Nihil spellbomb is decent, but I'm interesting in giving the leyline a shot as a way to hose random living end or dredge decks that crop up, as well as being a value play against jund / junk. My current sideboard plan is as follows:
3x Fulminator Mage
2x Vampiric Link
1x Leyline of the Void
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Liliana of the Veil
1x Kolaghan’s Comand
1x Shatterstorm
1x Mulldrifter (was Keranos)
1x Rending Volley
1x Pack Rat
I think part of why you didn't find rise/fall to be very exciting is because the hymn half is better earlier on, and oftentimes nuts if you draw multiple. Playing it on turn 3/4 is usually perfect, and that's why I think my 3 copies works well- I will usually see a rise/fall around then. The way that the deck plays, all of your opponents cards are good against us anyway, so hitting any card is usually fine, hitting 2 is fantastic because it is a disruption card that unlike inquisition or thoughtseize, is one of your BEST draws rather than your worst draws late game!
What I'm trying to say is keep at it, try to find room for the 3rd, (because seeing it early and often makes them even better) and I'm confident you will come around to it
Even bad hymn is nuts in modern, and Rise is hilarious with our creaturebase. The bounce turns on your thoughtseize again or liliana, and is really good against stuff like wurmcoil. (Usually you just need one more attack step against a wurmcoil deck to kill them). If you couldn't tell, I can't praise the card enough
How were you playing the Falls before, if I may ask? There are times that playing the Fall earlier is needed (against burn and affinity and such, or if you see their hand). If you see that your opponent misses a land drop, and you get to snap off a Fall, it is very hard for your opponent to come back.
The deck can usually just power through a relic. RIP and Leyline are brutal though, I admit. Luckily they aren't really played, and if your opponent has to play the leyline on 4 instead of it being in their opening hand, I think we can be just fine because of how much tempo our opponent will lose by casting it. Engineered explosives is usually reasonable against a deck that is going to bring in RIP (regardless of whether they draw the RIP or not). For leyline, if you REALLY want to have a card to deal with it (I'm not sure if it is worth it, it isn't even permanent) the only card I can think of is Grixis Charm. Again, the idea is that I don't think you want to play something super narrow, and Grixis Charm's other modes aren't fantastic, but it will let you bounce the enchantments while not being dead otherwise.
Explosives really should have a slot in the 75 almost no matter what. It just gives us a way to deal with random problem permanents, and while it is a little mana inefficient, the flexibility is great. Tokens, Fish, Affinity, Choke, Little Zoo, BOGLES, the list goes on.
Was planning to play this tonight if I went to FNM, but unfortunately I was not able to. Next time for sure though....
@griffin- I just got to live the dream. I thoughtseize on turn 3 against UW control, intending on clearing the way for tasigur. Instead I see he has no lands in hand (3 in play) only 1 counter and a bunch of paths, dspheres, verdicts, etc. So I take the counter, and instead of tasigur I fall him. Then then next turn I snap-fall him. He just scooped