Well, given that my Grixis Twin deck just got banned and I've been looking to get into this deck for a while, now seems like as good a time as any to start! My main consideration right now is the new jace. Is he really the bread and butter of this deck or is there a different way to focus this deck so that he isn't as necessary? Either way I'll be testing some proxies out.
I'm predicting a massive upswing in both tron and hyperlinear decks, which may leave this deck in a precarious position if it doesn't tune well towards super aggressive decks or tron.
Good luck with the deck, gentlemen. It looks like a lot of fun!
Jace has tremendous value, but he's rather useless against tron and eldrazi unless you're running like 4 molten rains. He is ok against aggro and mvp vs midrange/ctrl. I would run at least 1 as a 5th snap, or 2-3 if the meta is pretty grindy. I've never liked the 4th Jace bc it feels clunky, but the argument is that he's a legit 2 drop and snap is more of a 3 drop, hence the 4/3 jace/snap split.
Whelp I'm back after what ended up being a short trip to the grixis twin world. Looking at the way lists are going to be moving and where the meta is shifting I'm not sure the current iteration of this deck is going to really work. I like the idea of somewhere in the middle of this and grixis delver leaning heavily on pyromancers for both early aggro and early defense depending on what you are up against. I'm going to go back to the drawing board and see what I can make.
What's going on dude. Welcome back! I feel you lol. Looks like I'll be on some sort of hatebears until the meta stabilizes for grixis to come in. I'm def thinking of something similar, but I'm kind of scared to run more than 2 delves because people will have more room for sideboard hate, and tron/eldrazi/GW has main deck graveyard hate. A part of me wants to run gurmag as my 3rd Tas, but that 1 extra mana is a *****, and snag/remand type stuff can really eff up our tempo (although not that big of an issue unless Ux tempo and merfolk go up).
A part of me wants to run pretty much the same deck with a creature base of 4 Snap, 2 Tas, 2 pkn, 2 YPyro, 1 Jace, 1 Magus with 2 moons and a kalitas on the side. Probably 2 leaks and a dispel next to discard. On magus, I've tried a md Fulminator in some casual testing, but it wasn't really powerful enough in knocking tempo against tron/eldrazi. The magus might not be good, but I like it as my third moon effect bc it has a body and kom synergy. I'll add an extra swamp to compensate. I'll be testing it on paper at fnm (meta:{tron, eldrazi, bgx, merfolk, and random aggro/combo}). I'm not really digging the other threads convo, so it'll be good to have some fresh minds on this.
Look at the card. Now back to Jace. Now back to that card, now back to Jace! Sadly, it isn't Jace, but if it stopped being a junk rare and became relevant, it could act like it's Jace. Crack some Worldwake. What do you have? You have a Jace, the card you wish this card could be like. Look again. THE CARD IS NOW A $75 BILL. Anything possible when you play Magic with Jace and not junk rares. This is probably spam.
I like the idea but I have always been on the fence about main decking blood moon effects in this deck especially since the Meta looks like it gonna shape up to be a lot of aggro strats where blood moon isn't as powerful. On the flip side it completely shuts out tron and cripples eldrazi a bit which are decks that also seem to have a big benefit without twin in the meta and probably our worst matchups. I currently am running 4 snap 2 Jace 3 pyro 2 pkn 2 tasigur and 1 value flex thats a lava man right now because I think he will be really good going forward. but I'm only at 21 land and am running a fair amount more cantrip velocity with a 4 3 3 split on visions scour and probe. I haven't been on this thread or played the deck in a few months so I'm really looking forward to getting some feed back.
Look at the card. Now back to Jace. Now back to that card, now back to Jace! Sadly, it isn't Jace, but if it stopped being a junk rare and became relevant, it could act like it's Jace. Crack some Worldwake. What do you have? You have a Jace, the card you wish this card could be like. Look again. THE CARD IS NOW A $75 BILL. Anything possible when you play Magic with Jace and not junk rares. This is probably spam.
I like the idea but I have always been on the fence about main decking blood moon effects in this deck especially since the Meta looks like it gonna shape up to be a lot of aggro strats where blood moon isn't as powerful. On the flip side it completely shuts out tron and cripples eldrazi a bit which are decks that also seem to have a big benefit without twin in the meta and probably our worst matchups. I currently am running 4 snap 2 Jace 3 pyro 2 pkn 2 tasigur and 1 value flex thats a lava man right now because I think he will be really good going forward. but I'm only at 21 land and am running a fair amount more cantrip velocity with a 4 3 3 split on visions scour and probe. I haven't been on this thread or played the deck in a few months so I'm really looking forward to getting some feed back.
I feel like the list isn't aggressive enough to run pyros + probe. Pyro can offer tons of value and speed the game up, but git probes are awful against aggro decks where we already spend too much life on our mana base.
Look at the card. Now back to Jace. Now back to that card, now back to Jace! Sadly, it isn't Jace, but if it stopped being a junk rare and became relevant, it could act like it's Jace. Crack some Worldwake. What do you have? You have a Jace, the card you wish this card could be like. Look again. THE CARD IS NOW A $75 BILL. Anything possible when you play Magic with Jace and not junk rares. This is probably spam.
Git probe is there mostly as an extra cantrip plus I love the information it provides. I play it closer to a peek unless I really think I need to be on board with Pyro plus 1. It is definitely iffy as a choice but there aren't a lot of cantrip options sadly.
Look at the card. Now back to Jace. Now back to that card, now back to Jace! Sadly, it isn't Jace, but if it stopped being a junk rare and became relevant, it could act like it's Jace. Crack some Worldwake. What do you have? You have a Jace, the card you wish this card could be like. Look again. THE CARD IS NOW A $75 BILL. Anything possible when you play Magic with Jace and not junk rares. This is probably spam.
After going over it I trimmed the probes for scour and as for beating tron game one we are dog regardless so I'd rather make sure the deck is strong against the linear aggro decks that will be everywhere as well and board against tron agressively with blood moon and crumble to dust and negate effects.
I played a list similar to vidianto wijaya's list to a 3-1 result. I knew a lot of people would be playing tron or eldrazi so I packed my board loaded of hate.
23 lands
4 jace, vp
3 snapcasters
2 tasigurs
2 pia and Kira's naalar
2 fulminator Mage
4 serum visions
4 lightning bolts
4 inquisition of kosilek
3 kolaghans command
3 terminate
2 mana leak
1 rise/fall
1 thought scour
1 damnation
1 dispel
Game 1: I got nothing going and didn't last long before I was dead by etched champion
Game 2: He had me at 9 with ravager out and I snapped k-command to shock his ornithopter with a plating on it. He sacked his whole board to ravaged thinking I was dead but forgot we didn't go to blocker step. I was able to play tasigur and beat him down after that.
Game 3: I top deck serum visions and drew k-command again to kill another ravager and get back snapcaster. I was pretty much flooding by that point with 7 lands on field and one in hand.
Round 2: 0-2 B/W eldrazi
Game 1: Stuck on 2 lands and got beat in by turn 2 though knot seer and company and reality smasher
Game 2: Stuck on 5 lands but couldn't find any creatures to have a clock and lost to a blight herder and friends.
Round 3: 2-1 Tron/eldrazi
Game 1: He assembled tron and had eldrazi lands and eventually casted emrakul which I died shortly after.
Game 2: Had turn two jace,vp into turn 3 blood moon and turn 4 crumble to dust. Turn 5 flashback crumble to dust. I beat him down with a couple thopters from pia and kiran and he scooped with only 2 lands left in play and a bribery which I stole his ulamog since he had emrakul in hand.
Game 3: More land destruction happened and I found a tasigur to ride to victory for 16 points of damage and card advantage.
Round 4: 2-1 B/W eldrazi
Game 1: Stuck on 3 lands and didn't play anything relevant and lost to 4 lingering soul tokens and an oblivion sower.
Game 2: Jace Aot ticked up to 9 and removal did the rest until he scooped.
Game 3: Pretty close game as I had blood moon out after he tapped out since I knew he had a disenchat. Found some removal to clear the board and tasigur. Nothing exciting happened for a couple turns and I was at 3 and he was at 5. He played wasteland strangler and I top decked E.E with a dispel and another blood moon in hand. I popped it for 3 swung in and he scooped as I had a creeping tar pit for next turn. After this match he was so salty since this was a GREAT matchup for him and expected to win like every other week.
Overall I think it's still a hard matchup against eltrazi but not winnable. Blood moons certainly helped and I would main deck them. Although there wasn't a lot of aggro I think the deck is still a fine choice and could have some sideboard adjustments. I originally had Keranos and 2 dispel in the board with a spell snare in the main but these changes felt like I had a chance with the big ramp decks. If anyone has any questions or feedback let me know!
The biggest criticism I hear from Grixis Mid is that it can get ran over from especially aggressive starts and that it lacks the pressure to close out the game quickly against combo decks or ramp. By shifting your deck towards a Delver approach, you have trouble against aggro and you find yourself asking 'why am I playing a clock that gets one-for-one'd by Bolt in my value deck'? Shaun McClaren's UR Pyromancer list from World's deck took full advantage of a hole in Modern, it was a low land count aggro control deck that could go underneath slower decks in the format while still packing plenty of disruption and removal to handle aggressive strategies.
This why I feel a halfway approach between Delver and the en vogue Gerry T Grixis is the best way to presently play this shell. Building my RUG Twin list like this left me feeling like I never was losing to any one strategy, and transitioning from aggro to control depending on the matchup was natural given that's what the deck is built to do.
Young Pyromancer is the perfect threat for this style of strategy. Against combo, it's a win condition that you play early and quickly win by speeding up your clock every time you interact. Against aggro, it's comparable to Bitterblossom in that it that pumps out chump blockers to keep your life total high, and once you've turned the corner you have a hoard of tokens to end the game quickly before you can get burned out. And then against anything fair, Young Pyromancer is a great threat to play in the midgame when you've adequately disrupted the opponent and have the countermagic to protect it, or just a couple spells to ensure card advantage.
The big decision I see is Bob or Tasigur? Bob is not at all common in Grixis, but with K Command topping the curve and an average CMC of 1.05, I've preferred how Bob always comes down on turn 2, I don't have to play Thought Scour, and I'm drawing cards starting on turn 3 and without pumping mana into it.
Below is the list I'm currently comfortable with. If you're bored with your current iteration or need an excuse to buy Bobs, I suggest you try it out.
I really like your deck! Personally I would make some small changes, since I don't own Jace for example, but the Bob is quite interesting for me in the MB. My list would look somehting like this:
I currently play jund and I'm building the deck, over time and I'm to the point where I just don't want to buy goyf and Liliana (play sets of each) for hundreds and hundreds of dollars
So anyway, I used to play the older grixis lists and the big buys would be jace and snap, so I'm worried about that.
What I am worried about, though, is matchups. This grixis deck seems to do well but I can't help but worry about the lack of cards that can deal with different permanents, such as the way jund can do with abrupt decay and pulse.
So, grixis midrange players, what are your thoughts on matchups where this kind of thing is needed?
I currently play jund and I'm building the deck, over time and I'm to the point where I just don't want to buy goyf and Liliana (play sets of each) for hundreds and hundreds of dollars
So anyway, I used to play the older grixis lists and the big buys would be jace and snap, so I'm worried about that.
What I am worried about, though, is matchups. This grixis deck seems to do well but I can't help but worry about the lack of cards that can deal with different permanents, such as the way jund can do with abrupt decay and pulse.
So, grixis midrange players, what are your thoughts on matchups where this kind of thing is needed?
You just cannot destroy random enchantments.
This together with no lifegain cards is the 2 problems of grixis lists.
You cannot destroy rest in peace blood moon bitterblossoms chokes etc.
You just need to disrupt them from those cards with inquisition or thoughtseizes or mana leak spell snare them.
So i guess there is a way.
Just play 4 discards one spell snare two mana leaks and you should be fine. I run a maindeck dispel on top of them but you can go up to 3 mana leaks as well.
So what do you do if your opponent does happen to land a blood moon? Or a bitterblossom or some other anything thing? You just fight through it? I noticed most of these decks aren't using cryptic command to bounce troublesome things.
Yep.
You fight through that.
The things you describe belong to green or white colour pie.
U B R colour pies do not have a way.
Unless you side in into the roil or similar effects.
And to be clear most of the times you do not want to be bouncing a blood moon with cryptic command because then you have to have a way to counter it as well which from my experience is extremely rare. And all of this if you have triple blue which with the blood moon effect is a slim chance.
So you fight through.
You have discards or counters for it.
You can fetch basics for the blood moon you can have simple lands like creeping tar pit drowned catacomb sulfur falls for choke. You can electrolyze of use a sweeper effect for the blossoms and you have to respond with some way to rest in peace and not let it resolve.
2 mana leaks belong in this list because some times you cannot let cards resolve.
If we had a destoy enchantment effect or some kind of lifegain this deck would be over the top.
I guess you're right. It just makes me uneasy to be susceptable to these types of things. Other than that, the deck seems to work well in the meta? I really like alot of what blue brings to the sideboard also as opposed to what I'd lose of I switched from jund.
Yep.
You fight through that.
The things you describe belong to green or white colour pie.
U B R colour pies do not have a way.
Unless you side in into the roil or similar effects.
And to be clear most of the times you do not want to be bouncing a blood moon with cryptic command because then you have to have a way to counter it as well which from my experience is extremely rare. And all of this if you have triple blue which with the blood moon effect is a slim chance.
So you fight through.
You have discards or counters for it.
You can fetch basics for the blood moon you can have simple lands like creeping tar pit drowned catacomb sulfur falls for choke. You can electrolyze of use a sweeper effect for the blossoms and you have to respond with some way to rest in peace and not let it resolve.
2 mana leaks belong in this list because some times you cannot let cards resolve.
If we had a destoy enchantment effect or some kind of lifegain this deck would be over the top.
I guess you're right. It just makes me uneasy to be susceptable to these types of things. Other than that, the deck seems to work well in the meta? I really like alot of what blue brings to the sideboard also as opposed to what I'd lose of I switched from jund.
Yes because meta is filled on creature based aggro right now, and with Twin banned this is going to get more intense.
Bolt/Terminate - Snap or Jace flash back the spell can be backbreaking for the opponent, especially against Affinity and Infect. Note that those decks seem to be the clear post ban announcement winnners.
It has its tough matchups and they seem to be many(Boggles, Tron, Tokens, Junk, maybe Burn) but we have a chance against all of those except Tron. Just like Jund
One thing I actually forgot about, and I think you might have, too, is engineered explosives. Deals with lots of annoying things like spreading seas, blood moon, bogles' auras, etc.
The biggest criticism I hear from Grixis Mid is that it can get ran over from especially aggressive starts and that it lacks the pressure to close out the game quickly against combo decks or ramp. By shifting your deck towards a Delver approach, you have trouble against aggro and you find yourself asking 'why am I playing a clock that gets one-for-one'd by Bolt in my value deck'? Shaun McClaren's UR Pyromancer list from World's deck took full advantage of a hole in Modern, it was a low land count aggro control deck that could go underneath slower decks in the format while still packing plenty of disruption and removal to handle aggressive strategies.
This why I feel a halfway approach between Delver and the en vogue Gerry T Grixis is the best way to presently play this shell. Building my RUG Twin list like this left me feeling like I never was losing to any one strategy, and transitioning from aggro to control depending on the matchup was natural given that's what the deck is built to do.
Young Pyromancer is the perfect threat for this style of strategy. Against combo, it's a win condition that you play early and quickly win by speeding up your clock every time you interact. Against aggro, it's comparable to Bitterblossom in that it that pumps out chump blockers to keep your life total high, and once you've turned the corner you have a hoard of tokens to end the game quickly before you can get burned out. And then against anything fair, Young Pyromancer is a great threat to play in the midgame when you've adequately disrupted the opponent and have the countermagic to protect it, or just a couple spells to ensure card advantage.
The big decision I see is Bob or Tasigur? Bob is not at all common in Grixis, but with K Command topping the curve and an average CMC of 1.05, I've preferred how Bob always comes down on turn 2, I don't have to play Thought Scour, and I'm drawing cards starting on turn 3 and without pumping mana into it.
Below is the list I'm currently comfortable with. If you're bored with your current iteration or need an excuse to buy Bobs, I suggest you try it out.
I really like your deck! Personally I would make some small changes, since I don't own Jace for example, but the Bob is quite interesting for me in the MB. My list would look somehting like this:
What do you think, is it possible without the Jaces?
I had actually cut one Jace for the 4th IoK main a week or two ago. Jace is great when the game is more back and forth, but it also can feel too slow in many matchups.
I do like adding an additional piece of removal, but I would look to a card like Burst Lightning or Forked Bolt before a third Terminate. Staying more lean helps enable Young Pyromancer and lets you double spell earlier, plus the reach is great in a deck like this. Rise // Fall is at its best when you can pair it with flip Jace in my experience, you're a little lighter on countermagic than me so you might consider adding one piece of it back in over Rise // Fall.
If you don't have Tarns, I would cut a couple Darkslick Shores and add 2 Sulfur Falls. I'm not running 4 Delta because I need red mana to supplement my 3 Darkslick and Tar Pit.
I really like the look of your list, Academy! Definitely going to give it a try.
What do you think of Liliana compared to Tribute? I always considered her a Tribute at worst (edict, then take some damage that I would have taken), but in some circumstances she can just be a house. In other builds, I can see the double B making Tribute more appealing, but it seems like this list could support her just fine. Curious to hear your thoughts!
The biggest criticism I hear from Grixis Mid is that it can get ran over from especially aggressive starts and that it lacks the pressure to close out the game quickly against combo decks or ramp. By shifting your deck towards a Delver approach, you have trouble against aggro and you find yourself asking 'why am I playing a clock that gets one-for-one'd by Bolt in my value deck'? Shaun McClaren's UR Pyromancer list from World's deck took full advantage of a hole in Modern, it was a low land count aggro control deck that could go underneath slower decks in the format while still packing plenty of disruption and removal to handle aggressive strategies.
This why I feel a halfway approach between Delver and the en vogue Gerry T Grixis is the best way to presently play this shell. Building my RUG Twin list like this left me feeling like I never was losing to any one strategy, and transitioning from aggro to control depending on the matchup was natural given that's what the deck is built to do.
Young Pyromancer is the perfect threat for this style of strategy. Against combo, it's a win condition that you play early and quickly win by speeding up your clock every time you interact. Against aggro, it's comparable to Bitterblossom in that it that pumps out chump blockers to keep your life total high, and once you've turned the corner you have a hoard of tokens to end the game quickly before you can get burned out. And then against anything fair, Young Pyromancer is a great threat to play in the midgame when you've adequately disrupted the opponent and have the countermagic to protect it, or just a couple spells to ensure card advantage.
The big decision I see is Bob or Tasigur? Bob is not at all common in Grixis, but with K Command topping the curve and an average CMC of 1.05, I've preferred how Bob always comes down on turn 2, I don't have to play Thought Scour, and I'm drawing cards starting on turn 3 and without pumping mana into it.
Below is the list I'm currently comfortable with. If you're bored with your current iteration or need an excuse to buy Bobs, I suggest you try it out.
I really like your deck! Personally I would make some small changes, since I don't own Jace for example, but the Bob is quite interesting for me in the MB. My list would look somehting like this:
What do you think, is it possible without the Jaces?
I had actually cut one Jace for the 4th IoK main a week or two ago. Jace is great when the game is more back and forth, but it also can feel too slow in many matchups.
I do like adding an additional piece of removal, but I would look to a card like Burst Lightning or Forked Bolt before a third Terminate. Staying more lean helps enable Young Pyromancer and lets you double spell earlier, plus the reach is great in a deck like this. Rise // Fall is at its best when you can pair it with flip Jace in my experience, you're a little lighter on countermagic than me so you might consider adding one piece of it back in over Rise // Fall.
If you don't have Tarns, I would cut a couple Darkslick Shores and add 2 Sulfur Falls. I'm not running 4 Delta because I need red mana to supplement my 3 Darkslick and Tar Pit.
Actually I had no problems concerning the manabase by now, but I will keep that in mind, as soon as I notice some problems, I can adjust to them
Yeah, an extra piece of counter would be nice, especially as I realized the thing about Grixis lacking enchantment removal, therefore another counter could be nice. Although I really LOVE Fall, its been really disruptive and valuable for me by now. And getting back a Snapcaster, Bob or Pyromancer isn't bad either (of course in addition to the kcommands).
You surely can experiment with the removal package, Maybe you could also run Magma Spray
I currently play jund and I'm building the deck, over time and I'm to the point where I just don't want to buy goyf and Liliana (play sets of each) for hundreds and hundreds of dollars
So anyway, I used to play the older grixis lists and the big buys would be jace and snap, so I'm worried about that.
What I am worried about, though, is matchups. This grixis deck seems to do well but I can't help but worry about the lack of cards that can deal with different permanents, such as the way jund can do with abrupt decay and pulse.
So, grixis midrange players, what are your thoughts on matchups where this kind of thing is needed?
You just cannot destroy random enchantments.
This together with no lifegain cards is the 2 problems of grixis lists.
You cannot destroy rest in peace blood moon bitterblossoms chokes etc.
You just need to disrupt them from those cards with inquisition or thoughtseizes or mana leak spell snare them.
So i guess there is a way.
Just play 4 discards one spell snare two mana leaks and you should be fine. I run a maindeck dispel on top of them but you can go up to 3 mana leaks as well.
So what do you do if your opponent does happen to land a blood moon? Or a bitterblossom or some other anything thing? You just fight through it? I noticed most of these decks aren't using cryptic command to bounce troublesome things.
Run engineered explosives. It pops rest in peace choke blood moon and bends boggles over its knee.
I currently play jund and I'm building the deck, over time and I'm to the point where I just don't want to buy goyf and Liliana (play sets of each) for hundreds and hundreds of dollars
So anyway, I used to play the older grixis lists and the big buys would be jace and snap, so I'm worried about that.
What I am worried about, though, is matchups. This grixis deck seems to do well but I can't help but worry about the lack of cards that can deal with different permanents, such as the way jund can do with abrupt decay and pulse.
So, grixis midrange players, what are your thoughts on matchups where this kind of thing is needed?
You just cannot destroy random enchantments.
This together with no lifegain cards is the 2 problems of grixis lists.
You cannot destroy rest in peace blood moon bitterblossoms chokes etc.
You just need to disrupt them from those cards with inquisition or thoughtseizes or mana leak spell snare them.
So i guess there is a way.
Just play 4 discards one spell snare two mana leaks and you should be fine. I run a maindeck dispel on top of them but you can go up to 3 mana leaks as well.
So what do you do if your opponent does happen to land a blood moon? Or a bitterblossom or some other anything thing? You just fight through it? I noticed most of these decks aren't using cryptic command to bounce troublesome things.
Run engineered explosives. It pops rest in peace choke blood moon and bends boggles over its knee.
I actually mentioned this later on. Thanks though.
I've been toying around with a list in green and blue. I'm using [[abrupt decay]], and [[Maelstrom Pulse]]. The idea of my deck is to play a mana dorkk ([[birds of paradise, [[noble hierarch]]) on turn one, then be able to [[electrolyze]], [[Kolaghan's command]], [[Maelstrom Pulse]], [[Vendillion Clique]], or [[sedraxis specter]] on turn 2. I play it almost as a proactive control deck, or a tempo deck. I use 3 [[Goblin Dark-Dwellers]] as my finisher, and it works surprisingly well. The weirdest thing about my list so far is definitely my 2 [[phyrexian metamorph]], its really good to use on the dark-dweller, clique, or snapcaster though! I'm considering [[rise//fall]], [[terminate]], and [[tasigur, the golden fang]]. I don't love [[jace, vryns prodigy]] in my current list though.
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Jace has tremendous value, but he's rather useless against tron and eldrazi unless you're running like 4 molten rains. He is ok against aggro and mvp vs midrange/ctrl. I would run at least 1 as a 5th snap, or 2-3 if the meta is pretty grindy. I've never liked the 4th Jace bc it feels clunky, but the argument is that he's a legit 2 drop and snap is more of a 3 drop, hence the 4/3 jace/snap split.
What's going on dude. Welcome back! I feel you lol. Looks like I'll be on some sort of hatebears until the meta stabilizes for grixis to come in. I'm def thinking of something similar, but I'm kind of scared to run more than 2 delves because people will have more room for sideboard hate, and tron/eldrazi/GW has main deck graveyard hate. A part of me wants to run gurmag as my 3rd Tas, but that 1 extra mana is a *****, and snag/remand type stuff can really eff up our tempo (although not that big of an issue unless Ux tempo and merfolk go up).
A part of me wants to run pretty much the same deck with a creature base of 4 Snap, 2 Tas, 2 pkn, 2 YPyro, 1 Jace, 1 Magus with 2 moons and a kalitas on the side. Probably 2 leaks and a dispel next to discard. On magus, I've tried a md Fulminator in some casual testing, but it wasn't really powerful enough in knocking tempo against tron/eldrazi. The magus might not be good, but I like it as my third moon effect bc it has a body and kom synergy. I'll add an extra swamp to compensate. I'll be testing it on paper at fnm (meta:{tron, eldrazi, bgx, merfolk, and random aggro/combo}). I'm not really digging the other threads convo, so it'll be good to have some fresh minds on this.
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/364290#paper
Looks pretty interesting, was thinking about mb fulminators myself. Gonna whip up a brew for tonight's FNM.
URURxUR
UWUWxUW
Lands - 21
Bloodstained mire 4
Polluted delta 4
Tar pit 2
Sulfur falls 2
Darkslick shores 1
Steam vents 2
Blood crypt 1
Watery grave 1
Island 2
Mountain 1
Swamp 1
Creatures - 14
Snap 4
Pyro 3
Jace 2
Pkn 2
Tasigur 2
Lavamancer 1
Instant - 14
Bolt 4
Kcom 3
Terminate 2
Leak 2
Murderous cut 1
Cryptic command 1
Dispel 1
Sorcery 11
Iok 4
Probe 3
Serum visions 4
3 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Spells
3 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Terminate
1 Tribute to Hunger
3 Kolaghan's Command
2 Cryptic Command
1 Molten Rain
2 Crumble to Dust
1 Dispel
2 Countersquall
2 Vampiric Link
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Rise//Fall
1 Spellskite
1 Shatterstorm
1 Izzet Staticaster
Edit: Definitely want to try out some number of surgical extractions in the board for tron as well.
URURxUR
UWUWxUW
I feel like the list isn't aggressive enough to run pyros + probe. Pyro can offer tons of value and speed the game up, but git probes are awful against aggro decks where we already spend too much life on our mana base.
URURxUR
UWUWxUW
URURxUR
UWUWxUW
23 lands
4 jace, vp
3 snapcasters
2 tasigurs
2 pia and Kira's naalar
2 fulminator Mage
4 serum visions
4 lightning bolts
4 inquisition of kosilek
3 kolaghans command
3 terminate
2 mana leak
1 rise/fall
1 thought scour
1 damnation
1 dispel
Sideboard:
3 blood moons
1 crumble to dust
1 bribery
1 countersqual
1 anger of the gods
1 damnation
1 engineered explosives
1 izzet staticaster
1 shatterstorm
1 spellskite
1 jace, aot
1 olivia voldaren
1 distainful stroke
Round 1: 2-1 against affinity
Game 1: I got nothing going and didn't last long before I was dead by etched champion
Game 2: He had me at 9 with ravager out and I snapped k-command to shock his ornithopter with a plating on it. He sacked his whole board to ravaged thinking I was dead but forgot we didn't go to blocker step. I was able to play tasigur and beat him down after that.
Game 3: I top deck serum visions and drew k-command again to kill another ravager and get back snapcaster. I was pretty much flooding by that point with 7 lands on field and one in hand.
Round 2: 0-2 B/W eldrazi
Game 1: Stuck on 2 lands and got beat in by turn 2 though knot seer and company and reality smasher
Game 2: Stuck on 5 lands but couldn't find any creatures to have a clock and lost to a blight herder and friends.
Round 3: 2-1 Tron/eldrazi
Game 1: He assembled tron and had eldrazi lands and eventually casted emrakul which I died shortly after.
Game 2: Had turn two jace,vp into turn 3 blood moon and turn 4 crumble to dust. Turn 5 flashback crumble to dust. I beat him down with a couple thopters from pia and kiran and he scooped with only 2 lands left in play and a bribery which I stole his ulamog since he had emrakul in hand.
Game 3: More land destruction happened and I found a tasigur to ride to victory for 16 points of damage and card advantage.
Round 4: 2-1 B/W eldrazi
Game 1: Stuck on 3 lands and didn't play anything relevant and lost to 4 lingering soul tokens and an oblivion sower.
Game 2: Jace Aot ticked up to 9 and removal did the rest until he scooped.
Game 3: Pretty close game as I had blood moon out after he tapped out since I knew he had a disenchat. Found some removal to clear the board and tasigur. Nothing exciting happened for a couple turns and I was at 3 and he was at 5. He played wasteland strangler and I top decked E.E with a dispel and another blood moon in hand. I popped it for 3 swung in and he scooped as I had a creeping tar pit for next turn. After this match he was so salty since this was a GREAT matchup for him and expected to win like every other week.
Overall I think it's still a hard matchup against eltrazi but not winnable. Blood moons certainly helped and I would main deck them. Although there wasn't a lot of aggro I think the deck is still a fine choice and could have some sideboard adjustments. I originally had Keranos and 2 dispel in the board with a spell snare in the main but these changes felt like I had a chance with the big ramp decks. If anyone has any questions or feedback let me know!
Thanks
I really like your deck! Personally I would make some small changes, since I don't own Jace for example, but the Bob is quite interesting for me in the MB. My list would look somehting like this:
3x Darkslick Shores
1x Blackcleave Cliffs
1x Blood Crypt
1x Watery Grave
2x Steam Vents
1x Creeping Tar Pit
3x Bloodstained Mire
4x Polluted Delta
2x Island
1x Mountain
1x Swamp
4x Snapcaster Mage
3x Young Pyromancer
3x Dark Confidant
1x Grim Lavamancer
Sorcery
4x Serum Visions
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Thoughtseize
3x Gitaxian Probe
Instant
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Terminate
3x Kolaghan's Command
2x Mana Leak
1x Remand
1x Spell Snare
1x Dispel
1x Slaughter Pact
1x Rise // Fall
What do you think, is it possible without the Jaces?
So anyway, I used to play the older grixis lists and the big buys would be jace and snap, so I'm worried about that.
What I am worried about, though, is matchups. This grixis deck seems to do well but I can't help but worry about the lack of cards that can deal with different permanents, such as the way jund can do with abrupt decay and pulse.
So, grixis midrange players, what are your thoughts on matchups where this kind of thing is needed?
So what do you do if your opponent does happen to land a blood moon? Or a bitterblossom or some other anything thing? You just fight through it? I noticed most of these decks aren't using cryptic command to bounce troublesome things.
I guess you're right. It just makes me uneasy to be susceptable to these types of things. Other than that, the deck seems to work well in the meta? I really like alot of what blue brings to the sideboard also as opposed to what I'd lose of I switched from jund.
One thing I actually forgot about, and I think you might have, too, is engineered explosives. Deals with lots of annoying things like spreading seas, blood moon, bogles' auras, etc.
I do like adding an additional piece of removal, but I would look to a card like Burst Lightning or Forked Bolt before a third Terminate. Staying more lean helps enable Young Pyromancer and lets you double spell earlier, plus the reach is great in a deck like this. Rise // Fall is at its best when you can pair it with flip Jace in my experience, you're a little lighter on countermagic than me so you might consider adding one piece of it back in over Rise // Fall.
If you don't have Tarns, I would cut a couple Darkslick Shores and add 2 Sulfur Falls. I'm not running 4 Delta because I need red mana to supplement my 3 Darkslick and Tar Pit.
What do you think of Liliana compared to Tribute? I always considered her a Tribute at worst (edict, then take some damage that I would have taken), but in some circumstances she can just be a house. In other builds, I can see the double B making Tribute more appealing, but it seems like this list could support her just fine. Curious to hear your thoughts!
Actually I had no problems concerning the manabase by now, but I will keep that in mind, as soon as I notice some problems, I can adjust to them
Yeah, an extra piece of counter would be nice, especially as I realized the thing about Grixis lacking enchantment removal, therefore another counter could be nice. Although I really LOVE Fall, its been really disruptive and valuable for me by now. And getting back a Snapcaster, Bob or Pyromancer isn't bad either (of course in addition to the kcommands).
You surely can experiment with the removal package, Maybe you could also run Magma Spray
Run engineered explosives. It pops rest in peace choke blood moon and bends boggles over its knee.
I actually mentioned this later on. Thanks though.