I'm going to be doing some testing today with a few friends. I want to try out temporal trespass because I feel like with lotus bloom it can really help us combo out early. So I'm gonna try it with out the shoals or the whispers and test 2-3 of them. I think the deck needs to play gitaxian probe at that point because delving 8 is alot of cards. But with 4 thought scours, 4 ideas unbound,fetches and probes it should be castable for UUU..
I like this deck a lot! I played doomsday in legacy and I played the artifact version of cephalid breakfast with maniac or 4 horseman wincon. I wanted to ask how to play this deck. Do you try to combo as fast as possible? Could we also set a pile with the maniac route with Angel of Glory's RiseAzami, Lady of Scrolls and Laboratory Maniac and a Unburial Rites?
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
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Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
I like this deck a lot! I played doomsday in legacy and I played the artifact version of cephalid breakfast with maniac or 4 horseman wincon. I wanted to ask how to play this deck. Do you try to combo as fast as possible? Could we also set a pile with the maniac route with Angel of Glory's RiseAzami, Lady of Scrolls and Laboratory Maniac and a Unburial Rites?
I would personally play the deck as fast as possible, modern is a turn four format and we don't have the luxury of playing the control game, i'm with alterations it could be done but comboing off fast is the best bet
I like the idea of a the maniac pile it would me we would have to splash white in order to cast the unburial rites but i think its worth exploring
The white splash is not really neccessary because you want to have a Gemstone Caverns with a luck counter and you have Pentad Prism. Also you can also either play the angel or the rites off of Shelldock Isle so you just cast it for U.
Also a Rainbow land like City of BrassGemstone Mine or Mana Confluence could help to fix mana. Also white splash means we could use Silence to protect our combo a bit. Maybe we could cut 2 Shelldock Isle to get some other lands because we want Shelldock Isle only in the new Pile.
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
The white splash is not really neccessary because you want to have a Gemstone Caverns with a luck counter and you have Pentad Prism. Also you can also either play the angel or the rites off of Shelldock Isle so you just cast it for U.
Also a Rainbow land like City of BrassGemstone Mine or Mana Confluence could help to fix mana. Also white splash means we could use Silence to protect our combo a bit. Maybe we could cut 2 Shelldock Isle to get some other lands because we want Shelldock Isle only in the new Pile.
I would go so far as to cut down to 1 shelldock isle as the only time you'll want it is in the pile, the problem with that is that you know have to get it in the xile zone somehow easily done if you're running Leveler not so easy if you're not
If you run Silence we theoretically could run a Isochron Scepter + Silence combo to try and shut the opponent out until we can combo off
Strata Scythe could be added but just to exile 1 Shelldock Isle seems a bit inconvenient... but it may be possible in addition to a Plunge into Darkness. Also you may have Serum Powder to exile 7 cards before the game starts. Also you could potentionally chain Serum Powder exile Hands if you draw another when you get your Mulligan Hand.
But that complicates the playstyle of the deck and slows it down.
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Hello everyone, Its great to see more discussion about the deck. I like all the ideas flying around but before I address them let me show you the progress Ive made on the deck.
So a couple of things about the list. I think the ability to generate 5 mana on turn 2 and win on turn 3 is incredible. (Serum powder + Mulligans - Turn 0 Gemstone Cavern exiling a combo piece - Thoughtscour on their turn 1 - Land drop and Pentad Prism our turn 1 - mirror of fate turn 2) This amazing line of play isnt really Magical Christmasland either, its not hard to get a cavern in your opening hand with a pentad prism. Because of how fast this deck can be I wanted to make it even more consistent. So I've added a second emrakul and two more lab maniacs. This has proven to be very nice as it increases the chance drastically of getting them exiled with one of our various exile effects. Additionally it allows for a greater chance to get either of them under a shelldock ilse.
I also added two time walk effects. I discovered how powerful taking an extra turn is when you are trying to set up a combo like this especially if you have lotus blooms suspended. Additionally temporal mastery is a great card to add to an emrakul stack. One emrakul swing doesnt always mean game over for some board states, and being able to take an extra turn is fantastic. Dont forget that temporal mastery also exiles itself which is quite convenient.
The deck is far from perfect and I think all of the numbers in the deck could be tweaked. I dont know if 4ofs are necessary. I took out the fetches and shocks to make the mana base painless. The secondary motive behind that is that Id find myself trying to make stacks with land drops and fetchlands dont really work when your deck is exiled. After playing this deck a little more it is clear however that we have something very powerful on our hands. If tuned and tested and practiced I think this deck could easily take down a very large tournament. Opponents have no idea what is going on game one when you give them the draw and start exiling with serum powder and the combo is quite difficult to disrupt when executed properly.
Addressing some of your ideas now, I must say while the reanimation of angel of glories rise is pretty awesome, I dont think if we want to make the deck competitive we should add cards that are frivolous out side of a corner case combo set up. It simply is easier to only have maniacs and emrakuls. Its very easy to trigger the win on maniac, the deck has 4 relics that you can pop as well as thought scour.
Also, Please trust me when I say this, I think the deck definitely wants all 4 shelldock ilses. When you activate Mirror of Fate, all of your ilses turn on which can lead to some amazing lines of play. Trust me, there are hundreds of ways you can set up wins with shelldock isle, its one of the best cards in the deck in my opinion. Once I put a mirror of fate under shelldock when I already had one in my hand, and just used the first mirror to exile my deck and then shelldock to play the second mirror and set up the perfect win. Also it can be clutch to just hold onto it in your hand and play it after setting up your deck with emrakul.
I think if we want to make this deck amazing, which it has the potential to be, it needs to be tuned until its a machine like the tier 1 combo decks we see today.
Hello everyone, Its great to see more discussion about the deck. I like all the ideas flying around but before I address them let me show you the progress Ive made on the deck.
So a couple of things about the list. I think the ability to generate 5 mana on turn 2 and win on turn 3 is incredible. (Serum powder + Mulligans - Turn 0 Gemstone Cavern exiling a combo piece - Thoughtscour on their turn 1 - Land drop and Pentad Prism our turn 1 - mirror of fate turn 2) This amazing line of play isnt really Magical Christmasland either, its not hard to get a cavern in your opening hand with a pentad prism. Because of how fast this deck can be I wanted to make it even more consistent. So I've added a second emrakul and two more lab maniacs. This has proven to be very nice as it increases the chance drastically of getting them exiled with one of our various exile effects. Additionally it allows for a greater chance to get either of them under a shelldock ilse.
I also added two time walk effects. I discovered how powerful taking an extra turn is when you are trying to set up a combo like this especially if you have lotus blooms suspended. Additionally temporal mastery is a great card to add to an emrakul stack. One emrakul swing doesnt always mean game over for some board states, and being able to take an extra turn is fantastic. Dont forget that temporal mastery also exiles itself which is quite convenient.
The deck is far from perfect and I think all of the numbers in the deck could be tweaked. I dont know if 4ofs are necessary. I took out the fetches and shocks to make the mana base painless. The secondary motive behind that is that Id find myself trying to make stacks with land drops and fetchlands dont really work when your deck is exiled. After playing this deck a little more it is clear however that we have something very powerful on our hands. If tuned and tested and practiced I think this deck could easily take down a very large tournament. Opponents have no idea what is going on game one when you give them the draw and start exiling with serum powder and the combo is quite difficult to disrupt when executed properly.
Addressing some of your ideas now, I must say while the reanimation of angel of glories rise is pretty awesome, I dont think if we want to make the deck competitive we should add cards that are frivolous out side of a corner case combo set up. It simply is easier to only have maniacs and emrakuls. Its very easy to trigger the win on maniac, the deck has 4 relics that you can pop as well as thought scour.
Also, Please trust me when I say this, I think the deck definitely wants all 4 shelldock ilses. When you activate Mirror of Fate, all of your ilses turn on which can lead to some amazing lines of play. Trust me, there are hundreds of ways you can set up wins with shelldock isle, its one of the best cards in the deck in my opinion. Once I put a mirror of fate under shelldock when I already had one in my hand, and just used the first mirror to exile my deck and then shelldock to play the second mirror and set up the perfect win. Also it can be clutch to just hold onto it in your hand and play it after setting up your deck with emrakul.
I think if we want to make this deck amazing, which it has the potential to be, it needs to be tuned until its a machine like the tier 1 combo decks we see today.
I'm glad to see the testing went well, what piles did you generally make and what decks did you test against?, how were the match ups?
The things that could disrupt the deck are Pithing Needle, Phyrexian Revoker, Stony Silence (that are cards that are commonly played) also blood moon hurts us because Shelldock Isle becomes a mountain and things like Tectonic Edge and Ghostquarter will hurt us too.
After reading what you wrote I think 4 Shelldock isles are necessary and the route with angel is a bit too complicated.
On the point of Stony Silence and Phyrexian Revoker i suggest a possible green splash for Nature's Claim or try and bounce it with some form of blue spell however if you want permanent answers then green, red or white is the way to go
Maybe to not add another color a bounce spell would be a better option. Maybe something like Echoing truth to "kill" multiples or Wipe away because it is uncounterable. Also the delve mechanic seems to be a good way to exile cards we want. Set Adrift would be awesome or maybe we could use some control elements with Murderous Cut. some spells to get a bit of control seem to make Plunge into Darkness much more useful because you don't just cast it to get Mirror of Fate but to also get the thngs you need to force the combo through.
Edit:Maybe I could cut a lab man for another bounce preferably Echoing truth because it helps against tokens also.
I also searched for some cards and saw a nearly perfect creature for the deck. Gloom Surgeon. Look at him and tell me what you think of it. I mean he buys us some time in creature matchups and exiles cards by blocking creatures. Also it could be used with the other effect of Plunge into darkness to get some life and you could entwine it with the exile effect.
Also Snapback could be added to buy some time.
The things that could disrupt the deck are Pithing Needle, Phyrexian Revoker, Stony Silence (that are cards that are commonly played) also blood moon hurts us because Shelldock Isle becomes a mountain and things like Tectonic Edge and Ghostquarter will hurt us too.
After reading what you wrote I think 4 Shelldock isles are necessary and the route with angel is a bit too complicated.
Heya Heskatet, I appreciate all your posts very much, full of great insights and questions that are important to consider. I definitely like Frydoggys suggestion of using natures claim (Thanks frydoggy for your support as well in the discussion!) I also think a number of disrupting shoals in the sideboard could prove powerful for countering hate cards. If we add some more paradise lands to the deck I bet we could even add abrupt decays in the side. Speaking of side boarding I think 4 leylines of sanctity would also prove necessary. Maybe a pact of negation or slaughter pact could prove useful as well. I also like illness in the ranks against twin.
That is the very reason I only play 2 plunges. Its useful, but not necessary and the life loss can be brutal. I think playing more in the sideboard could be really fantastic in the match ups where life loss in not a factor. I usual cast it to find the mirror or if I need to exile combo pieces. Its funny, brainstorm would make this deck so nuts for a plethora of reasons.. it just works so well with the deck. Too bad eh?
I like your list, I think murderous cut is definitely a good inclusion, I've been toying with using it for a while, but before I add any control aspects I want to find the perfect mix for the combo. However delve is very nice for setting up the combo. The only thing is it makes relic kind of redundant. Which might not be a bad thing. I dont know if I like river of tears or underground river better.. its hard to say. I guess I am just drawn to river of tears because its painless. However you cant tap it for blue the turn you play it which is an anti synergy with ideas unbound.
Gloom surgeon is sweet, I dont think its mainboardable because of how do nothing it can be in different matchups, but as a sideboard option for creature decks it could prove useful. However I kinda like murderous cut better for dealing with creatures.
I'll be testing the deck with my buddies tonight and I'll report back to you guys what we find. So far I have found counter magic to be a slight problem, but not impossible. Most matchups come down to speed, because mainboard there is little people can do against you. Abrupt decay on Prism can be bad, but recoverable. My piles really vary from game to game, basically its depends on what I already have in my hand and what the board state currently is, but it can be as simple as exiling my entire library and putting lab maniac on top.
Maybe to not add another color a bounce spell would be a better option. Maybe something like Echoing truth to "kill" multiples or Wipe away because it is uncounterable. Also the delve mechanic seems to be a good way to exile cards we want. Set Adrift would be awesome or maybe we could use some control elements with Murderous Cut. some spells to get a bit of control seem to make Plunge into Darkness much more useful because you don't just cast it to get Mirror of Fate but to also get the thngs you need to force the combo through.
Edit:Maybe I could cut a lab man for another bounce preferably Echoing truth because it helps against tokens also.
I also searched for some cards and saw a nearly perfect creature for the deck. Gloom Surgeon. Look at him and tell me what you think of it. I mean he buys us some time in creature matchups and exiles cards by blocking creatures. Also it could be used with the other effect of Plunge into darkness to get some life and you could entwine it with the exile effect.
Also Snapback could be added to buy some time.
The only bounce spells that seems appropriate here would be Echoing Truth and Set Adrift as it hits multiple and screws with the opponents draw the others seem to just do too little for the effect, i strongly believe that Sultai colours are the way to go here, blue and black are obviously already in the deck and the addition of green provides Nature's Claim as well as Hooting Mandrills if you need to slow down the beatdown on your face
Another interesting idea that a think has a place is Etherium Sculptor, yes i do realise it has anti-synergy with Pentad Prism however it lets mirror be cast easier as well as Leveler if you decide to run them which combined with Hooting Mandrills could turn this deck into some strange kind of tempo-combo deck as well as one hell of a board presence
I look forward to hearing you're report Aven and i agree with you that Gloom surgeon belongs in the sideboard but it could be devastating against some decks, i also agree with both yours and Heskatets verdict on Murderous cut as it provides that bit of removal we needed
Finally i'm on the Underground River side as River of tears just seems too unpredictable for me liking and 1 life doesn't hurt that bad
I created my list on MTGO and try to test it and make some reports to the results i've got. I'll share them with you as soon as I have time.
My thing in all my decks is that I want to have answers to almost everything even G1 so I try to get some cards in there which could help me out of situation where you don't come out without them. (that's why I like Murderous Cut and Set Adrift). I think in most games you just need to get rid of 1 card which kills your combo and I just want the feeling to play around it with this cards.
Also a concern of me was countermagic. That's why I suggested to play maybe Silence or Autumn's Veil (good addition if we splash green for Nature's claim or even Abrupt Decay).
Greetings! Testing went very well last night. I played against Grixis Twin, Storm and Junk midrange. Before I detail how the match ups went I want to show you my most recent update to the list including a sideboard! Check this out:
You'll notice that Black is gone. The reason for this being twofold. First off I decided to try out a new card Taigam's Scheming. This card is perfect for the deck, it manipulates the top of your library in a extremely powerful way for the deck, allowing you to set up Shelldock, Temporal Mastery and Tresspass, digs 5 cards down to find mirror and fills your graveyard. Because of how good this card is for the deck I thought Plunge into darkness was not needed allowing me to change what color I was splashing, which brings me to the second reason. White is just a more useful splash, Leyline of Sanctity, Disenchant, and Silence are all perfect and powerful answers to what we loose to. White just has the best sideboard options in general. Additionally you'll notice that mainboard the deck is basically mono blue outside of pentad prism, which is the entire reason we are splashing a second color mainboard in the first place. Anyway, Tell me what you think of Taigam's Scheming. I think it has huge potential.
Onto testing reports. So starting with grixis twin, I must say that counter magic is pretty brutal, especially remand, it can really slow us down and with out a way to stop twin from winning this match up is quite poor. However all is not lost, I was still able to pull out a few wins when he stumbled and tapped out for a tasigur, the golden fang. Additionally silence is really useful for comboing out and disenchant can stop them from twinning. Still I am unhappy with the state of this match up. I think this is an important match up that we need to at least get to 50-50 and I dont quite see how yet. Maybe disrupting shoal is the answer? I dont entirely know. I like illness in the ranks, and it is possible to splash both black and white with some darkslick shores. Honestly I wish I could just play abrupt decay in the side.
Storm was a much easier match up that came down to who was faster game one and if I got a relic out or not. Rest in peace also was very brutal and so was leyline, so I dont think we have much to worry about other combo decks like these. Often times our combo is faster and more reliable because they have no way to disrupt it which is the only hole in our plan.
Junk was a little bit trickier, Discard wasnt too brutal against our deck and abrupt decay just slows us down. Junk really isnt fast enough to kill us before we can kill them. I won most of the games in which we both had a decent hand and that makes me feel good about the deck because it demonstrates that fair decks really cant deal with what we are doing.
Over all I lost 2 matches against twin and only won 1 game, I beat storm all 3 matches and against junk I won 2 out of 3 games because thats all we had time for.
Things to consider:
How can we fit a third Relic in the deck, Seems like too powerful of a card to not have at least 3
Should we splash red so we can have the best loot effect available in modern, Faithless looting? The deck NEEDS a loot effect and Idea unbound is all we are packing right now.
How can we shore up our twin and control matches?
Should the deck be full combo? Or Combo Control?
Should we just stuff 4 Emrakuls and go all in on the shell dock emrakul combo?
I like the idea of making the deck just UW! We have better options for the sideboard and are more flexible in adapting t the opposing decks.
A card which could also be considered is Monastery Siege it helps against control matchups and it shuts down storm burn and other suff.
Grey do you think Set Adrift needs a spot in the 75 or in the mainboard?
1. To adress some questions you asked: Maybe If we cut a Maniac we could add the 3rd Relic.
2. The thing is what do we get from splashing red except the looting? I mean White and black and green adds very good options for the sideboard but what exactly does red do for us?
3. Control matchup I think Monastery siege could do big things for us!(It can also be used for additional card draw and get cards to our grave.) If we stay in blue Echoing truth may be the best addition against Twin.
Also Defense grid could be a good thing for us.
4, I think full combo or combo control is personal preference in my opinion I like having some options and control elements, others don't... a thing which may influence the deck style may be the meta if there are more aggro decks play full combo if there are more control maybe a combocontrol could be the way to go.
5. Emrakul means you have to attack so we should add some options to fight things like Ensnaring Bridge. If we play both we are much more flexible and can adapt better even g1 so I personally prefer the route to add both win cons, but I would maybe cut 1 Maniac.
6. I think white has the best cards to add to our deck but also black and green could add very good cards.
Also a general question which came into my mind is How could the deck be named? And should this become a primer or is the deck not enough developed?
@Grey: In the list you posted if you don't exile Emrakul with a Serum Powder how do you exile Emrakul? You can only exile it with a Relic if i'm correct?
I agree with you triple black is just too hard for the mana base to generate, i'm more in favour of just cutting black entirely in favour of green
Now for the points
1. I would cut a lab for the 3rd relic purely bc the relic has more utility than lab
2. The red splash isn't worth it when compared to the other colours
3. I think Silence+Isochron Sceptor combo would help with the control match up to mess up with the control plan, Path to exile will help with splinter twin and any other matchup where creature combos
4. Combo control or full combo depends on personal preference and metagame prescence, personally i'm leaning on the combo-control side
5. I think the deck needs a bit more testing before we make this decision
6. White and green i can't stress my mind enough white and green all the way but i'm very open to any other suggestions
Heya guys, I got a chance to work on the deck some last night and get a bunch more test games in. Here is the current update to the list, let me know what you think:
You'll notice a few changes, I like your idea about cutting down on one Laboratory Maniac. Also I added terminus as a 2 of, the reasoning behind it being that sometimes we lose games simply because we have no way to stop them from winning before we can win. All it would take is a terminus to buy us the time we need, and for 1 white sweeping the board is what I call value. Its easy to set up within the deck as well. I also decided to test out 2 thirst for knowledge over Ideas unbound. Our 2 drop slot is already a little over loaded and the 3 drop slot was mostly empty, also thirst has a few advantages over ideas unbound. It is an instant, and you can discard extra lotus blooms and other artifacts for added value. Tell me what you think about that change. I am glad you guys agree that white might be the better splash. So far its proving to be the correct choice.
Thanks for your detailed answers! I like set adrift, Ive always had a soft spot for Time Ebb effects, but do you think its better then Terminus for example? I like that it delve, but I think I would rather have the more reliable Path to Exile. Monistary Siege is awesome and I definitely need to find a slot for it in the sideboard. I love that it makes abrupt decay cost 2 more and also hurts burn. Maybe we can cut 1 leyline and something else to fit 2 in the side.
I forgot to mention the other card besides Faithless looting that red gives us which has been tempting me to go with the red splash. Trash for Treasure, seems like an amazing fit in the deck. Lets us sac used pentad prisms or relics to put the mirror directly into play for only 3 mana. I dont know how amazing that is, but it could be decent. Another card that goes well with it, and fits into the white splash is Pull from Eternity. This is going kinda deep now, but you can bring a mirror from exile into your graveyard and then trash to treasure it into play.
Defensive Grid is good, but is better then a silence? I dont have much experience with either of them in actual gameplay. I agree that it can go both directions, and at this point its not possible to tell if full combo or combo control is better. For now I am going to test a mostly combo deck with a few control elements because I dont think the combo is quite reliable enough to completely ignore your opponents. But I do agree completely that the deck needs both Emrakul and Lab Maniac just for the simple fact that they can get you out of different situations. There are a couple of ways to exile emrakul by the way. First as you said, serum powder, but Relic can exile him with the trigger on the stack as well as gemstone cavern out of your opening hand.
As far as names go that is a very good question. There really hasnt been a deck that effectively used Mirror of Fate yet. I would love to write a primer, I am going to be playing the deck in some side events at the GP Detroit this weekend. I will post a tournament report for said side events and work on a primer... For a deck name, I was thinking about "Bad Karma". Because the entire point of the deck is to break a mirror.. Haha.
Well for the red splash i think Trash for treasure and Faithless Looting aren't worth a red splash. Trash for treasure has 2 conditions to work: you need an artifact in play and you need Mirror of Fate in your grave to make it work.
I know about the triggerthing with emrakul and relic but you need a relic out when you discard emrakul otherwise you shuffle all cards into the library. I don't know how often that is a factor but I personally like it when I am not neccessarily luck dependant.
For the list you posted I am not quite sure how good terminus performs as a 2 of in here. Also I don't know how often you reliably can sweep the board with terminus as a 2 of and also for W. Maybe we get information about that from your report. I like the delve mechanic a lot so I would prefere Set Adrift. One reason is: we get more value from things like Taigam's scheming, thought scour and thirst for knowledge.
Personally I'm not a fan of Serum Visions... I can't really tell why but I think there are better cards like it. Maybe something that fills the grave better or which gives us advantage for our play.For example Gitaxian probe would do a lot for us in the games. Most likely it won't get countered because counters are not that often in modern and you have to chose if you counter that or another spell. It gives us info if our opponent has any kind of disruption against our combo so we know if we have to play silence or not to protect the combo. It draws a card and it may be played for free if we need the mana to combo off. Also I like sleight of hand a lot because you dig for 2 and get 1 card of your choice into your hand. (But that may be personal preference)
I like thirst for knowledge over ideas unbound!
I suggested Defense grid for some reasons:
- to get more cards which are useful to chose from
- it's colorless(we don' t play fetches or real duals so it can always be played
- it's on the field permanently whereas Silence is a one use only.
- Also we can potentially drop it on our t1 with gemstone caverns out. That means they have to counter it t1 or we can do what we like.
Monastery siege looks so awesome. Burn just loses to it and all decks which want board control have hard times with it additionally it is in our color(s) and has cmc3 and disrupts Abrupt Decay
I would also say that we have to put some control elements into the deck to have options to force our combo through, and don't lose to random stuff.
If you are interested I would like to help you with the primer.
My suggestion as a name for the deck would maybe be BLU (Bad Luck for U) mainly because breaking a mirror means you will have bad luck for 7 years and we have Gemstone Caverns which gets a luck counter and so forth haha
Well for the red splash i think Trash for treasure and Faithless Looting aren't worth a red splash. Trash for treasure has 2 conditions to work: you need an artifact in play and you need Mirror of Fate in your grave to make it work.
I know about the triggerthing with emrakul and relic but you need a relic out when you discard emrakul otherwise you shuffle all cards into the library. I don't know how often that is a factor but I personally like it when I am not neccessarily luck dependant.
For the list you posted I am not quite sure how good terminus performs as a 2 of in here. Also I don't know how often you reliably can sweep the board with terminus as a 2 of and also for W. Maybe we get information about that from your report. I like the delve mechanic a lot so I would prefere Set Adrift. One reason is: we get more value from things like Taigam's scheming, thought scour and thirst for knowledge.
Personally I'm not a fan of Serum Visions... I can't really tell why but I think there are better cards like it. Maybe something that fills the grave better or which gives us advantage for our play.For example Gitaxian probe would do a lot for us in the games. Most likely it won't get countered because counters are not that often in modern and you have to chose if you counter that or another spell. It gives us info if our opponent has any kind of disruption against our combo so we know if we have to play silence or not to protect the combo. It draws a card and it may be played for free if we need the mana to combo off. Also I like sleight of hand a lot because you dig for 2 and get 1 card of your choice into your hand. (But that may be personal preference)
I like thirst for knowledge over ideas unbound!
I suggested Defense grid for some reasons:
- to get more cards which are useful to chose from
- it's colorless(we don' t play fetches or real duals so it can always be played
- it's on the field permanently whereas Silence is a one use only.
- Also we can potentially drop it on our t1 with gemstone caverns out. That means they have to counter it t1 or we can do what we like.
Monastery siege looks so awesome. Burn just loses to it and all decks which want board control have hard times with it additionally it is in our color(s) and has cmc3 and disrupts Abrupt Decay
I would also say that we have to put some control elements into the deck to have options to force our combo through, and don't lose to random stuff.
If you are interested I would like to help you with the primer.
My suggestion as a name for the deck would maybe be BLU (Bad Luck for U) mainly because breaking a mirror means you will have bad luck for 7 years and we have Gemstone Caverns which gets a luck counter and so forth haha
I don't think you understand the full apication of trash for treasure. While I do agree its a little tricky having an artifact in play to sac. But remember you can exile your deck with mirror then trash it back into play and mirror again setting up the win. Also you can put a lotus bloom into play essentially storing three mana with it. This can be useful. Just a possibility. Not gonna test it yet. But with Taigam's scheming it can be easy to set up and get mirror into play turn two, and having a second way to do that is awesome.
Anyway, I am not sure how good terminus is going to be either, I will probably test three tomorrow at fmn before the gp this Saturday. I think it will prove very powerful with serum visions andTaigam's scheming. But I could be wrong.
I personally hate serum visions.. It's a disgrace to deck manipulation. But to be honest it's the best thing in modern for blue combo decks. Scry is reeeeally nice in this deck and what other option do we have for scrying? Mystical speculation?... I wish there was something else. Maybe we could test index if we add more maricles. Index is garbage, but with a well used though scour it can be very powerful. Just a thought.
I also like your side board design. But I'm not sold on monistary seige over leyline of sanctity.. However you've sold me on defencive grid.. It's just too good on turn one.
Anyway. I'll test some version of the list I tweak at the last second before fmn tomorrow night. And I will report back here with the results after.
After we get these results we should be able to make an amazing primer. I'll start on an explanation and how to play of the deck, if you wanna work on card choices section. We still gotta find the perfect name. I am not satisfied with either of our proposals yet. Haha.
Sorry this post is of slightly lower quality. Using my phone.
Well I understand that Thrash for Treasure can do something for us when Mirror is in our grave but its just not neccessary, because you can just make piles where mirror is always included, because after you activate Mirror of Fate you exile your library and at that point you can repeatedly set a pile with 7 new cards in them. Was that understandable how I wrote that?! Looks a bit confusing... I don't understand how putting a Lotus Bloom into play with TfT nets you mana. TfT costs 2R and Lotus Bloom adds 3 mana of any color.
Also still the question is what red adds to our useful cardpool except Faithfull Looting and Trash for Treasure what white can do far better?
So if we include at least 1 Mirror of fate in the pile of the new 7 cards in our library we are able to always continue to play our whole deck with lands with timewalks etc.
The thing what I dislike with scrying is that we may just do that for the potential Terminus miracle play. In fact we want to get our combo pieces so why don't we cut terminus and just add 2 Supreme Verdict instead if we are playing white?
What we really want is some carddraw which also discards cards to get use from Relic of Progenitus. So things like Thirst for Knowledge are a way to go I think.
I'll make a list of cards which could be considered and add it to the post later also card tags will be added... writing with the phone!
Edit: Cards that could be added as card draw:
Sorceries:
8-Rack"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
I would personally play the deck as fast as possible, modern is a turn four format and we don't have the luxury of playing the control game, i'm with alterations it could be done but comboing off fast is the best bet
I like the idea of a the maniac pile it would me we would have to splash white in order to cast the unburial rites but i think its worth exploring
8-RackAlso a Rainbow land like City of Brass Gemstone Mine or Mana Confluence could help to fix mana. Also white splash means we could use Silence to protect our combo a bit. Maybe we could cut 2 Shelldock Isle to get some other lands because we want Shelldock Isle only in the new Pile.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
I would go so far as to cut down to 1 shelldock isle as the only time you'll want it is in the pile, the problem with that is that you know have to get it in the xile zone somehow easily done if you're running Leveler not so easy if you're not
If you run Silence we theoretically could run a Isochron Scepter + Silence combo to try and shut the opponent out until we can combo off
8-RackBut that complicates the playstyle of the deck and slows it down.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
4 Mirror of Fate
4 Serum Visions
4 Serum Powder
4 Pentad Prism
4 Thought Scour
3 Relic of Progenitus
4 Lotus Bloom
1 Temporal Mastery
1 Temporal Trespass
2 Plunge into Darkness
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Laboratory Maniac
1 Fatestitcher
4 Darkslick Shores
4 River of Tears
4 Shelldock Isle
3 Island
So a couple of things about the list. I think the ability to generate 5 mana on turn 2 and win on turn 3 is incredible. (Serum powder + Mulligans - Turn 0 Gemstone Cavern exiling a combo piece - Thoughtscour on their turn 1 - Land drop and Pentad Prism our turn 1 - mirror of fate turn 2) This amazing line of play isnt really Magical Christmasland either, its not hard to get a cavern in your opening hand with a pentad prism. Because of how fast this deck can be I wanted to make it even more consistent. So I've added a second emrakul and two more lab maniacs. This has proven to be very nice as it increases the chance drastically of getting them exiled with one of our various exile effects. Additionally it allows for a greater chance to get either of them under a shelldock ilse.
I also added two time walk effects. I discovered how powerful taking an extra turn is when you are trying to set up a combo like this especially if you have lotus blooms suspended. Additionally temporal mastery is a great card to add to an emrakul stack. One emrakul swing doesnt always mean game over for some board states, and being able to take an extra turn is fantastic. Dont forget that temporal mastery also exiles itself which is quite convenient.
The deck is far from perfect and I think all of the numbers in the deck could be tweaked. I dont know if 4ofs are necessary. I took out the fetches and shocks to make the mana base painless. The secondary motive behind that is that Id find myself trying to make stacks with land drops and fetchlands dont really work when your deck is exiled. After playing this deck a little more it is clear however that we have something very powerful on our hands. If tuned and tested and practiced I think this deck could easily take down a very large tournament. Opponents have no idea what is going on game one when you give them the draw and start exiling with serum powder and the combo is quite difficult to disrupt when executed properly.
Addressing some of your ideas now, I must say while the reanimation of angel of glories rise is pretty awesome, I dont think if we want to make the deck competitive we should add cards that are frivolous out side of a corner case combo set up. It simply is easier to only have maniacs and emrakuls. Its very easy to trigger the win on maniac, the deck has 4 relics that you can pop as well as thought scour.
Also, Please trust me when I say this, I think the deck definitely wants all 4 shelldock ilses. When you activate Mirror of Fate, all of your ilses turn on which can lead to some amazing lines of play. Trust me, there are hundreds of ways you can set up wins with shelldock isle, its one of the best cards in the deck in my opinion. Once I put a mirror of fate under shelldock when I already had one in my hand, and just used the first mirror to exile my deck and then shelldock to play the second mirror and set up the perfect win. Also it can be clutch to just hold onto it in your hand and play it after setting up your deck with emrakul.
I think if we want to make this deck amazing, which it has the potential to be, it needs to be tuned until its a machine like the tier 1 combo decks we see today.
I'm glad to see the testing went well, what piles did you generally make and what decks did you test against?, how were the match ups?
8-RackAfter reading what you wrote I think 4 Shelldock isles are necessary and the route with angel is a bit too complicated.
Edit: Also I wanted to ask what you take when you cast Plunge into Darkness? Obviously Mirror of fate if you don't have one. Is it only neccessary to cast plunge if you don't have enough of the combo pieces exiled? Or how do we get things exiled? Serum powder to mulligan thought scour and ideas unbound with relic of progenitus?
Also a card which could be considered is Dimir Charm.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
8-RackMy list would maybe look like this.
4x Mirror of Fate
4x Pentad Prism
4x Lotus Bloom
3x Relic of Progenitus
4x Thought Scour
3x Ideas Unbound
1x Set Adrift
1x Murderous Cut
3x Plunge into Darkness
1x Temporal Mastery
1x Temporal trespass
1x Fatestitcher
3x Laboratory Maniac
2x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3x Dimir Charm
4x Shelldock Isle
4x Gemstone Caverns
4x Underground River
4x Darkslick Shore
1x Island
1x Swamp
Edit:Maybe I could cut a lab man for another bounce preferably Echoing truth because it helps against tokens also.
I also searched for some cards and saw a nearly perfect creature for the deck. Gloom Surgeon. Look at him and tell me what you think of it. I mean he buys us some time in creature matchups and exiles cards by blocking creatures. Also it could be used with the other effect of Plunge into darkness to get some life and you could entwine it with the exile effect.
Also Snapback could be added to buy some time.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Heya Heskatet, I appreciate all your posts very much, full of great insights and questions that are important to consider. I definitely like Frydoggys suggestion of using natures claim (Thanks frydoggy for your support as well in the discussion!) I also think a number of disrupting shoals in the sideboard could prove powerful for countering hate cards. If we add some more paradise lands to the deck I bet we could even add abrupt decays in the side. Speaking of side boarding I think 4 leylines of sanctity would also prove necessary. Maybe a pact of negation or slaughter pact could prove useful as well. I also like illness in the ranks against twin.
That is the very reason I only play 2 plunges. Its useful, but not necessary and the life loss can be brutal. I think playing more in the sideboard could be really fantastic in the match ups where life loss in not a factor. I usual cast it to find the mirror or if I need to exile combo pieces. Its funny, brainstorm would make this deck so nuts for a plethora of reasons.. it just works so well with the deck. Too bad eh?
I like your list, I think murderous cut is definitely a good inclusion, I've been toying with using it for a while, but before I add any control aspects I want to find the perfect mix for the combo. However delve is very nice for setting up the combo. The only thing is it makes relic kind of redundant. Which might not be a bad thing. I dont know if I like river of tears or underground river better.. its hard to say. I guess I am just drawn to river of tears because its painless. However you cant tap it for blue the turn you play it which is an anti synergy with ideas unbound.
Gloom surgeon is sweet, I dont think its mainboardable because of how do nothing it can be in different matchups, but as a sideboard option for creature decks it could prove useful. However I kinda like murderous cut better for dealing with creatures.
I'll be testing the deck with my buddies tonight and I'll report back to you guys what we find. So far I have found counter magic to be a slight problem, but not impossible. Most matchups come down to speed, because mainboard there is little people can do against you. Abrupt decay on Prism can be bad, but recoverable. My piles really vary from game to game, basically its depends on what I already have in my hand and what the board state currently is, but it can be as simple as exiling my entire library and putting lab maniac on top.
The only bounce spells that seems appropriate here would be Echoing Truth and Set Adrift as it hits multiple and screws with the opponents draw the others seem to just do too little for the effect, i strongly believe that Sultai colours are the way to go here, blue and black are obviously already in the deck and the addition of green provides Nature's Claim as well as Hooting Mandrills if you need to slow down the beatdown on your face
Another interesting idea that a think has a place is Etherium Sculptor, yes i do realise it has anti-synergy with Pentad Prism however it lets mirror be cast easier as well as Leveler if you decide to run them which combined with Hooting Mandrills could turn this deck into some strange kind of tempo-combo deck as well as one hell of a board presence
I look forward to hearing you're report Aven and i agree with you that Gloom surgeon belongs in the sideboard but it could be devastating against some decks, i also agree with both yours and Heskatets verdict on Murderous cut as it provides that bit of removal we needed
Finally i'm on the Underground River side as River of tears just seems too unpredictable for me liking and 1 life doesn't hurt that bad
8-RackMy thing in all my decks is that I want to have answers to almost everything even G1 so I try to get some cards in there which could help me out of situation where you don't come out without them. (that's why I like Murderous Cut and Set Adrift). I think in most games you just need to get rid of 1 card which kills your combo and I just want the feeling to play around it with this cards.
Also a concern of me was countermagic. That's why I suggested to play maybe Silence or Autumn's Veil (good addition if we splash green for Nature's claim or even Abrupt Decay).
Gloom Surgeon surely only is an option against creature decks and I like the idea of Illness in the Ranks against all sorts of tokens. If we splash white, sideboard options against burn could also be just a simple Circle of Protection: Red or Leyline of Sanctity. Against Affinity Chalice of the Void on 0 will do a good job or also Stony Silence could be added.
Silence would be something against control matchups. Relic of Progenitus helps against most Graveyard based decks.
What do you guys think of these sideboard options?
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
1 Fatestitcher
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Lotus Bloom
2 Relic of Progenitus
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
3 Ideas Unbound
4 Pentad Prism
4 Taigam's Scheming
4 Serum Powder
4 Mirror of Fate
2 Temporal Mastery
1 Temporal Trespass
4 Gemstone Caverns
4 Island
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Shelldock Isle
3 Silence
1 Narcomoeba
3 Disenchant
2 Rest in Peace
1 Blasting Station
1 Sage's Row Denizen
4 Leyline of Sanctity
You'll notice that Black is gone. The reason for this being twofold. First off I decided to try out a new card Taigam's Scheming. This card is perfect for the deck, it manipulates the top of your library in a extremely powerful way for the deck, allowing you to set up Shelldock, Temporal Mastery and Tresspass, digs 5 cards down to find mirror and fills your graveyard. Because of how good this card is for the deck I thought Plunge into darkness was not needed allowing me to change what color I was splashing, which brings me to the second reason. White is just a more useful splash, Leyline of Sanctity, Disenchant, and Silence are all perfect and powerful answers to what we loose to. White just has the best sideboard options in general. Additionally you'll notice that mainboard the deck is basically mono blue outside of pentad prism, which is the entire reason we are splashing a second color mainboard in the first place. Anyway, Tell me what you think of Taigam's Scheming. I think it has huge potential.
Onto testing reports. So starting with grixis twin, I must say that counter magic is pretty brutal, especially remand, it can really slow us down and with out a way to stop twin from winning this match up is quite poor. However all is not lost, I was still able to pull out a few wins when he stumbled and tapped out for a tasigur, the golden fang. Additionally silence is really useful for comboing out and disenchant can stop them from twinning. Still I am unhappy with the state of this match up. I think this is an important match up that we need to at least get to 50-50 and I dont quite see how yet. Maybe disrupting shoal is the answer? I dont entirely know. I like illness in the ranks, and it is possible to splash both black and white with some darkslick shores. Honestly I wish I could just play abrupt decay in the side.
Storm was a much easier match up that came down to who was faster game one and if I got a relic out or not. Rest in peace also was very brutal and so was leyline, so I dont think we have much to worry about other combo decks like these. Often times our combo is faster and more reliable because they have no way to disrupt it which is the only hole in our plan.
Junk was a little bit trickier, Discard wasnt too brutal against our deck and abrupt decay just slows us down. Junk really isnt fast enough to kill us before we can kill them. I won most of the games in which we both had a decent hand and that makes me feel good about the deck because it demonstrates that fair decks really cant deal with what we are doing.
Over all I lost 2 matches against twin and only won 1 game, I beat storm all 3 matches and against junk I won 2 out of 3 games because thats all we had time for.
Things to consider:
A card which could also be considered is Monastery Siege it helps against control matchups and it shuts down storm burn and other suff.
Grey do you think Set Adrift needs a spot in the 75 or in the mainboard?
1. To adress some questions you asked: Maybe If we cut a Maniac we could add the 3rd Relic.
2. The thing is what do we get from splashing red except the looting? I mean White and black and green adds very good options for the sideboard but what exactly does red do for us?
3. Control matchup I think Monastery siege could do big things for us!(It can also be used for additional card draw and get cards to our grave.) If we stay in blue Echoing truth may be the best addition against Twin.
Also Defense grid could be a good thing for us.
4, I think full combo or combo control is personal preference in my opinion I like having some options and control elements, others don't... a thing which may influence the deck style may be the meta if there are more aggro decks play full combo if there are more control maybe a combocontrol could be the way to go.
5. Emrakul means you have to attack so we should add some options to fight things like Ensnaring Bridge. If we play both we are much more flexible and can adapt better even g1 so I personally prefer the route to add both win cons, but I would maybe cut 1 Maniac.
6. I think white has the best cards to add to our deck but also black and green could add very good cards.
Also a general question which came into my mind is How could the deck be named? And should this become a primer or is the deck not enough developed?
@Grey: In the list you posted if you don't exile Emrakul with a Serum Powder how do you exile Emrakul? You can only exile it with a Relic if i'm correct?
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Also if the deck shifts from UB to UW it won't find a spot as well as Plunge into Darkness
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Now for the points
1. I would cut a lab for the 3rd relic purely bc the relic has more utility than lab
2. The red splash isn't worth it when compared to the other colours
3. I think Silence+Isochron Sceptor combo would help with the control match up to mess up with the control plan, Path to exile will help with splinter twin and any other matchup where creature combos
4. Combo control or full combo depends on personal preference and metagame prescence, personally i'm leaning on the combo-control side
5. I think the deck needs a bit more testing before we make this decision
6. White and green i can't stress my mind enough white and green all the way but i'm very open to any other suggestions
8-Rack1 Fatestitcher
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
2 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Pentad Prism
4 Taigam's Scheming
4 Serum Powder
4 Mirror of Fate
2 Terminus
2 Temporal Mastery
4 Gemstone Caverns
3 Island
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Shelldock Isle
3 Silence
2 Disenchant
2 Rest in Peace
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Terminus
2 Ghostly Prison
You'll notice a few changes, I like your idea about cutting down on one Laboratory Maniac. Also I added terminus as a 2 of, the reasoning behind it being that sometimes we lose games simply because we have no way to stop them from winning before we can win. All it would take is a terminus to buy us the time we need, and for 1 white sweeping the board is what I call value. Its easy to set up within the deck as well. I also decided to test out 2 thirst for knowledge over Ideas unbound. Our 2 drop slot is already a little over loaded and the 3 drop slot was mostly empty, also thirst has a few advantages over ideas unbound. It is an instant, and you can discard extra lotus blooms and other artifacts for added value. Tell me what you think about that change. I am glad you guys agree that white might be the better splash. So far its proving to be the correct choice.
Thanks for your detailed answers! I like set adrift, Ive always had a soft spot for Time Ebb effects, but do you think its better then Terminus for example? I like that it delve, but I think I would rather have the more reliable Path to Exile. Monistary Siege is awesome and I definitely need to find a slot for it in the sideboard. I love that it makes abrupt decay cost 2 more and also hurts burn. Maybe we can cut 1 leyline and something else to fit 2 in the side.
I forgot to mention the other card besides Faithless looting that red gives us which has been tempting me to go with the red splash. Trash for Treasure, seems like an amazing fit in the deck. Lets us sac used pentad prisms or relics to put the mirror directly into play for only 3 mana. I dont know how amazing that is, but it could be decent. Another card that goes well with it, and fits into the white splash is Pull from Eternity. This is going kinda deep now, but you can bring a mirror from exile into your graveyard and then trash to treasure it into play.
Defensive Grid is good, but is better then a silence? I dont have much experience with either of them in actual gameplay. I agree that it can go both directions, and at this point its not possible to tell if full combo or combo control is better. For now I am going to test a mostly combo deck with a few control elements because I dont think the combo is quite reliable enough to completely ignore your opponents. But I do agree completely that the deck needs both Emrakul and Lab Maniac just for the simple fact that they can get you out of different situations. There are a couple of ways to exile emrakul by the way. First as you said, serum powder, but Relic can exile him with the trigger on the stack as well as gemstone cavern out of your opening hand.
As far as names go that is a very good question. There really hasnt been a deck that effectively used Mirror of Fate yet. I would love to write a primer, I am going to be playing the deck in some side events at the GP Detroit this weekend. I will post a tournament report for said side events and work on a primer... For a deck name, I was thinking about "Bad Karma". Because the entire point of the deck is to break a mirror.. Haha.
I know about the triggerthing with emrakul and relic but you need a relic out when you discard emrakul otherwise you shuffle all cards into the library. I don't know how often that is a factor but I personally like it when I am not neccessarily luck dependant.
For the list you posted I am not quite sure how good terminus performs as a 2 of in here. Also I don't know how often you reliably can sweep the board with terminus as a 2 of and also for W. Maybe we get information about that from your report. I like the delve mechanic a lot so I would prefere Set Adrift. One reason is: we get more value from things like Taigam's scheming, thought scour and thirst for knowledge.
Personally I'm not a fan of Serum Visions... I can't really tell why but I think there are better cards like it. Maybe something that fills the grave better or which gives us advantage for our play.For example Gitaxian probe would do a lot for us in the games. Most likely it won't get countered because counters are not that often in modern and you have to chose if you counter that or another spell. It gives us info if our opponent has any kind of disruption against our combo so we know if we have to play silence or not to protect the combo. It draws a card and it may be played for free if we need the mana to combo off. Also I like sleight of hand a lot because you dig for 2 and get 1 card of your choice into your hand. (But that may be personal preference)
I like thirst for knowledge over ideas unbound!
I suggested Defense grid for some reasons:
- to get more cards which are useful to chose from
- it's colorless(we don' t play fetches or real duals so it can always be played
- it's on the field permanently whereas Silence is a one use only.
- Also we can potentially drop it on our t1 with gemstone caverns out. That means they have to counter it t1 or we can do what we like.
Monastery siege looks so awesome. Burn just loses to it and all decks which want board control have hard times with it additionally it is in our color(s) and has cmc3 and disrupts Abrupt Decay
I would also say that we have to put some control elements into the deck to have options to force our combo through, and don't lose to random stuff.
If you are interested I would like to help you with the primer.
My suggestion as a name for the deck would maybe be BLU (Bad Luck for U) mainly because breaking a mirror means you will have bad luck for 7 years and we have Gemstone Caverns which gets a luck counter and so forth haha
Maybe my sideboard would look like this:
Edit: added card tags and a sideboard.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
I don't think you understand the full apication of trash for treasure. While I do agree its a little tricky having an artifact in play to sac. But remember you can exile your deck with mirror then trash it back into play and mirror again setting up the win. Also you can put a lotus bloom into play essentially storing three mana with it. This can be useful. Just a possibility. Not gonna test it yet. But with Taigam's scheming it can be easy to set up and get mirror into play turn two, and having a second way to do that is awesome.
Anyway, I am not sure how good terminus is going to be either, I will probably test three tomorrow at fmn before the gp this Saturday. I think it will prove very powerful with serum visions andTaigam's scheming. But I could be wrong.
I personally hate serum visions.. It's a disgrace to deck manipulation. But to be honest it's the best thing in modern for blue combo decks. Scry is reeeeally nice in this deck and what other option do we have for scrying? Mystical speculation?... I wish there was something else. Maybe we could test index if we add more maricles. Index is garbage, but with a well used though scour it can be very powerful. Just a thought.
I also like your side board design. But I'm not sold on monistary seige over leyline of sanctity.. However you've sold me on defencive grid.. It's just too good on turn one.
Anyway. I'll test some version of the list I tweak at the last second before fmn tomorrow night. And I will report back here with the results after.
After we get these results we should be able to make an amazing primer. I'll start on an explanation and how to play of the deck, if you wanna work on card choices section. We still gotta find the perfect name. I am not satisfied with either of our proposals yet. Haha.
Sorry this post is of slightly lower quality. Using my phone.
Also still the question is what red adds to our useful cardpool except Faithfull Looting and Trash for Treasure what white can do far better?
So if we include at least 1 Mirror of fate in the pile of the new 7 cards in our library we are able to always continue to play our whole deck with lands with timewalks etc.
The thing what I dislike with scrying is that we may just do that for the potential Terminus miracle play. In fact we want to get our combo pieces so why don't we cut terminus and just add 2 Supreme Verdict instead if we are playing white?
What we really want is some carddraw which also discards cards to get use from Relic of Progenitus. So things like Thirst for Knowledge are a way to go I think.
I'll make a list of cards which could be considered and add it to the post later also card tags will be added... writing with the phone!
Edit: Cards that could be added as card draw:
Sorceries:
Instants:
Yeah I could help doing a cardselection part in the primer.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy