As a fun aside; I built a version where I replaced Genesis Wave with Sylvan Messenger, Garruck with Ezuri, and utopia Sprawl and Abundant growth with Elvish Mystic and more copies of Shaman, Elite, and Oracle...
It is lightning fast and amazing to goldfish...but I can only imagine how tough it would he to play through removal and especially board wipes.
I'll post that list in a bit; and while it performed better than I had expected; I'd really have to test it in actuall play (as it just seems like taking out The right elf could halt it hard and board wipes would be far more detrimental...
I so badly want to use messenger though! Ha. I think she only works though, if you run close to 30 elves. I'm still going to try it at 25
Another issue that is bothering me quite a bit is that past Elf Combo decks have been 30 creature + 4x Summoner's Pact builds. This also made them crazy fast. I've worked with both types (i.e. playing a similar build) and both are fine. I feel like we are in a different meta now (and have new tools like Genesis Wave)...and most importantly we don't have Glimpese of Nature (which pretty much forced and rewarded the 30+ creature and 4+ Summoner's Pact build)...It's just a thought I wanted to bring to the attention of those brewing combo elves. There are absolutely builds with 30+ creatures that do work (I will post the two I've tried)...I'm just not certain they are are resilient as the current builds on the Primer (i.e. they can get "blown out" much more easily).
I posted an "All Elves" version of the current Combo deck (with the new cards). It's actually very consistent and very fast! I haven't tested it against all of the top Tier decks though; so I could see it struggling with removal, having to pay for Pact's, etc. I'll let you know how it looks in testing as I test it more.
There are so many directions we can go now!!! It's driving me crazy (in a good way) I'm currently testing three different versions of the deck:
1. My "devoted combo" version (only got better with the new elves...so most likely where I'm going to end up).
2. A version much more in line with "classic" Elf Combo (4x [[Summoner's Pact]], [[Beck]], etc.
3. An "all elves" version (running [[Sylvan Messenger]]
They are all good...so it's going to come down to actual testing against the meta to see where the weaknesses lie (and which has the best chance against the meta).
After about 9 hours testing; I ended up with a list I am going to move forward with testing tomorrow for extended testing. It is a noticeable departure from my prior list (8 cards in the main board changed and the land-base changed due to the change in color and the addition of a win-condition) but the "core" strategy is the same (overwhelm the board, "string" elves, and "loop" draw cards until you hit the combo. If you don't hit the combo, you can sink mana into a Wave (to Wave into the combo) or into another sink (in this case Kessig Wolf Run although in the past it was Ezuri, Renegade Leader...).
A few things that came out of testing and I thought may need extra explaining:
1. Kessig Wolf Run is stellar in an elf deck. We ramp so quickly and pretty much always have an elf on board; and even a single elf becomes a huge threat.
2. Nylea's Presence - this was added for a few reasons. Originally I just wanted another "draw a card" permanent; however I found this to actually be the best one as it allows Arbor Elf to untap Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx...although the elves make substantially more mana in this build (as you get more of them and traditionally get to a Heritage Druid and/or [[Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx]] very quickly);...having the ability to untap a Nykthos with Arbor Elf makes for very large Genesis Waves and Kessig Wolf Runs (as well as multiple "loops" of cantrip elves or enchantments.)
3. Sylvan Messenger - I originally thought that this card would be the one elf that may not make it into Modern; but it has drawn me an average of 2.3 cards and has been invaluable to keeping "strings" of elves going.
The losses were:
1. Coiling Oracle - This really hurt as this is probably my favorite card of all time. The deck ran slightly odd with 12 2-drops (Visionary, Oracle, and Elite) and I just couldn't justify splashing blue and not having Kessig Wolf Run available.
Great update. How are you dealing with Pithing Needles with your Arbor Elves? I switched mine out for Mystics after needles kept showing up in my Meta. Does this happen often with you or are the benefits with Utopia Sprawl worth it?
With Garruk gone you are relying on Nylea's Presence for Nykthos untapping. In the Weird Harvest build I'm always happy to get two activations Nykthos. Are the extra elves found from Messenger making up for this?
I've always been interested in Presence as extra Abundant Growths. I also look at them with interest for their interaction with Choke. Could be fun as mana denial too. It is also good as a non-creature drawing when Torpor Orb comes out.
The idea between Choke and Nylea's Presence is brilliant! I hadn't actually even thought of it
I was in kind of a pickle when testing...
1. The Green Devotion version of the deck seemed to work well as it was without the new cards...none semmed to push it beyond where it already was.
2. The new elves are just unreal with Cloudstone Curio. There had to be a reason they all had amazing ETB effects...
3. Kessig Wolf Run is simply amazing in elf decks. You need mama sinks (it's what makes Ezuri so good); but taking a few slots away from a "combo elf" for a mana sink hurts the synergy of the deck....Kessig Wolf Run Solves this issue.
With the above three, I was stuck with the following:
1. I couldn't really play Kessig Wolf Run, Shaman of the Pack, and Coiling Oracle in the same deck...four colors is just one to many in a deck running Nykthos (even with our land enchantnents).
2. I couldn't play both Garruk Wildspeaker and Sylvan Messenger in the same build (as both are 4-drops) and curve correctly.
I started by just replacing Eternal Witness and Primal Command with Shaman of the Pack...second cams replacing Coiling Oracle with Dwynen's Elite (as it's just unreal with Heritage Druid)...the deck was good, but I did feel the loss of card draw. There is an important line where you go from overwhelming the opponent to not having enough card draw)..
I originally had not planned on playing Sylvan Messenger; but decided to at minimum give it a try to see if it made up the card draw I wanted. The only problem was that it had to replace Garruk to keep the curve right. Without Garruk, I was down to just combo-ing or hitting large enough Shamans to win. I really wanted another win con. My first thought was Ezuru; but he seemed a little "clunky". Then it hit me...Because I no longer splashed blue; I could splash red and Kessig Wolf Run. It meant I could only play 1x Cavern of the Souls main-deck: but Shaman was the only non-Green elf in the deck (requiring one black mana) and my control match up is definitely winnable game one anyways.
Once these had all been tested through/decided on; I had 1-2 slots still open...I wanted the slots to be both ramp and card draw if possible (but Coiling Oracle was out of the picture). That's what led me to Nylea's Presence. It allows for those explosive turns with Arbor Elf untapping Nykthos's, is another enchantment that can be looped, is a means to put Utopia Sprawl on my non-Forests, aids my Weakness to Blood Moon, and is simple fixing for red and black mans...it kind of was a "catch all" or "glue" that enhanced a lot of the synergies in the deck.
At that point, the deck began playing extremely well. From there I continued testing until I was sure the deck performed as well or better than the devotion version. It plays slightly differently (it's more about stringing elves than the devotion deck is); but you just can't deby how powerful the new elves are.
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In the weird harvest version; I think you are right to keep Garruk Wildspeaker. I'm keeping it in the Devotion version. Being able to use his *1 to use Weird Harvest to tutor for several elves and at worst simply overrun then the following turn with his ultimate is pretty great synergy.
On Arbor Elf and Pithing Needle; I feel like the positives I get from the synergy with Utopia Sprawl and Nylea's Presence is worth it. I also have many games where I've used the land he untapped in response to being destroyed during either combat (with Kessig Wolf Run) or second main. If the meta gets very Pithing Needle heavy; I could certainly see making the change...Utopia Sprawl is also good in decks running Garruk as his +1 can Untap an enchanted land and a Nykthos (so he re-triggers Nykthos all by his self). It also helps me loop the "draw card" enchantnents (sometimes even if it's 2-G per card draw it's still worth it).
One cool thing about NOT running Arbor Elf and not running Ezuri is that you can run Damping Matrix in your board!
Cool list. I'm not sure about Presence as a means of untapping Nykthos because it requires three pieces instead of two (even though it does other things). However, I kinda like it in a Merfolk style aggro list.
Cool list. I'm not sure about Presence as a means of untapping Nykthos because it requires three pieces instead of two (even though it does other things). However, I kinda like it in a Merfolk style aggro list.
Thanks DM!
I agree with you on Presence. That ended up being a small benefit of the card. It's the weakest card in the list. It just has so many mini-synergies/uses in the deck that it seemed worth it.
I could play an additional copy of a few of the elves I don't play full sets of; however the fact that they are 2-drops that draw a card just makes the curve "feel" right when testing.
Is still be interested to see a list without the enchantnents. I've enjoyrd the way they play with Arbir Elf and Curio; but it would be neat to see what others do with the extra 6 slots (as you'd replace Arbor Elf with Elvish Mystic and Utopia Sprawl with Llanowar Elves)....
I've got some more testing to do...but I really do feel they created many of the Origins Elves with Modern/Cloudstone Curio in mind. I even wrote Gavin Verhey saying thanks (he's a big combo elf fan too along with Jacob Van Lunen...so I'm assuming he had some say somewhere
I didn't say he designed the set. The designers on each set are not the only ones with any say in what ends up in the sets...there's a chance he may not have had anything to do with it; he's just written in the past about loving Combo Elves and wanting to see it in the future. Also, they've said in many articles, "this is actually a card X came up with when..." Sometimes they ask others for input, ideas, etc.band sometimes they use old ideas they've saved from prior set ideas.
I wouldn't be surprised if he had say in the fact that the elves work so well with both Cloudtone Curio and Heritage Druid....if it is a coincidence its a happy one! If someone else was responsible, I would bet he'd let me know via email. I just meant I was sharing my excitement and enthusiasm for the new elves with a member of Wizards who had expressed similar love for combo elves in the past.
Curdbros - thanks for your work and insight. I've been away from my cards (and computers for that matter) so I haven't been able to firm up my 'beta' intruder alarm build. Honestly it'll be at least a few more days before I have any time for MTG and next weekend is prelease
I'm curious - what do you use for your goldfishing experiments? How do you playtest your deck before taking it out?
Curdbros - thanks for your work and insight. I've been away from my cards (and computers for that matter) so I haven't been able to firm up my 'beta' intruder alarm build. Honestly it'll be at least a few more days before I have any time for MTG and next weekend is prelease
I'm curious - what do you use for your goldfishing experiments? How do you playtest your deck before taking it out?
I do a lot of digital testing on Cockatrice; but to be entirely honest I have a twin brother who is just as nuts as I am; so we are able to test paper pretty much every night. I do enjoy Cockatrice for goldfishingn though, and even testing (because you can build any opponent deck you want and play against it). It's not exactly the same (because you know what cards each player has); but it does give you insight you couldn't get just in "theory crafting".
P.S. Trying out a 1-2 of Elvish Archdruid....I honestly think it may be too slow for the combo build; however as a 1-of it may work...we'll see. I'm certainly going to test it though! I'll let everyone know how it goes tonight.
Trying out both Thorn of Amethyst and Evolutionary Leap in the board over Cavern of Souls...I'll rtest more; but from my first set of testing; we seem to already be pretty favored against control.
The only other change is running a fourth Dwynen's Elite and an Elvish Mystuic over Nylea's Presence. Sylvan Messenger and Elites have both helped maintain the card advantage...in actually really liking the one-of Mystic (really smooths things out quite a bit). If I find I want a little more card-draw: I may go back down to 3x Elite and 1x Nylea's Presence.
Can't wait for the 17th to come and I can finally use the Origins cards. I played in a modern event with the deck below and went 1-2. I have to say the first game it felt like I didn't know what deck I was playing since I've been testing with Dwynen's Elite and Shaman of the Pack so much recently.
Match 1, Grixis Delver, 1-2
Game 1 Loss. Mulliganed to 6 and kept a hand with Bow of Nylea, Curio, Heritage, Forest, Mystic, Visionary. Eventually drew into a Root Maze that I played. I should've kept it in my hand vs. Delver. I ended up drawing into the Combo, but needed my topdeck to be an elf to generate the mana. Instead I got a land that came into play tapped.
Game 2 Win. After losing to my own Root maze all three came out and Bow + Choke came in. Mulligan to 6 again and kept a hand with Choke. Choke bought enough time trapping 3 Serum Visions in my opponents hand that I was able to combo. Win
Game 3 Loss. Mulligan to 6. This game Bow did a lot of work shooting Delver's out of the air, but doesn't do much vs. Gurmag Angler. Removal kept me off of the mana needed to combo and eventually Angler got in enough times.
Match 2, Mono-U Tron, 2-1
Game 1 Loss. Mulligan to 6 (I sense a pattern here). Tron comes online turn 4 along with Mind Slaver. I don't have the tools to win next turn, but the most damage the Slaver can do is tap some of my elves for mana. The next turn Acadamy Ruins shows up and I concede. I don't have the cards to win that turn and the lock will be available. I also take the time to educate my opponent that they could've asked to see my sideboard when they activated Slaver.
Game 2 Win. I side in Nullmage Shepherd, both Reclamation Sages, and Fracturing Gust and remove Essense Warden, one Abundant Growth, Bow, and Research. I start this game off with a mulligan to 4 with Forest, Llanowar Elves, Archdruid, and Visionary. I drew into a land on turn 2 so played the archdruid and my opponent plays Torpor Orb. So now I'm off the combo plan, but I start slowly chipping away at life. My opponent kept a very slow hand and was relying on Treasure Mage to get Wurmcoil or Slaver. Unfortunately he forgot the Torpor Orb shuts this down too. After several turns and my opponent using Thirst for Knowledge three times I was able to take the last few points of damage. I didn't expect to win this game, but my opponent just wasn't drawing into anything except mana.
Game 3 Win. Mulligan to 6 and quickly put enough mana together with Nykthos and Garruk to Weird Harvest for the Combo. Unfortunately without Research I can't go for my Alt-Combo win and try to attack with one 700/700 Nettle Sentinel. That is quickly Repealed and my opponent gets one more turn. Fortunately they did not draw into Ugin and lay down Mindslaver. I remind them that Root Maze causes it to come into play tapped and destroy it with Nullmage for good measure. My opponent concedes.
Match 3, Abzan Company, 1-2
Game 1 Win. Mulligan to 6 (Have to keep with the theme). My hand has all 4 pieces of the Curio Combo and I quickly go off.
Game 2 Loss. I keep my hand of 7 even though it was weak. Should've kept up on the Mulliganing. The game was fun and very grindy. My Bow shot down 2 birds, and Orzhov Pontiff did work on some elves about to receive +3/+3 and trample. Finally Gavony Township makes the opposing side to large and I succumb.
Game 3 Loss. Keep a hand that is fast and interactive. This time shooting down 3 birds. I misplayed the last turn of the Match and lost because of it. I was excited and had enough mana for the Weird Harvest Combo and went for it. I grabbed some redundant Heritage Druids and Visionaries for the Combo, but should've grabbed Yeva and an Archdruid. Pontiff came down mid combo and that was that.
1. Removed 1 copy of Dwynen's Elite and added a copy of Elvish Mystic...Dwynen's Elite is AMAZING; but it is situational; so three seems to work well. I didn't mind a full set too much though...I just feel I will get more out of an additional Mystic.
2. Added one Gilt-Leaf Palace in place of one Forest. Just gives me another black source without taking damage. I have a LOT of black sources (between all of the fetches, Overgrown Tombs, and the Abundant Growt and Utopia Sprawls....but you really need a lot when playing Thoughtseize and Stain the Mind (as they are generally played early in games 2 and 3).
3. Removed Evolutionary Leap and replaced it with Bonfire of the Damned. It actually is for a pretty simple reason...I didn't need the Evolutionary Leap. Fair decks have a VERY difficult time beating this deck; even with one or more board wipes...there is just too much incremental advantage. I found myself not playing it simply because I didn't need it. It's a REALLY cool card when it is played though. I can totally see it being amazing in both devotion decks, CoCo Elves, and many CoCo decks.
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The combo deck has came up in conversation in a few other places (including the CoCo Elves page) and it appears as though we've got our work cut out for us explaining how Combo Elves now plays. Many still consider the deck the old Intruder Alarms elves by Twoo or the Extended Elves (less all of the banned cards) that runs 4x Summoner's Pact, Regal Force, etc. I do think there is a VERY fast and linear version out there...but I think the current versions we are playing (that can win very quickly but also have huge sums of built-in card/resource advantage) are the future of "Combo Elves" though.
I need to post a few videos, etc. as this is the best way to depict the deck lists on here and the card choices/interactions. It is very difficult for many to see how the cards work together; so I completely understand. I still struggle with some cards/interactions
I am going to try to test Weird Harvest some more too. It does seem extremely good....I just think I haven't played it enough to be proficient with it.
I really like the style of your deck Irmo. The interactions between the enchantments as well as the interaction between Garruk, Root Maze, etc....slowing the opponent while not slowing you....it's very cool!
Can you elaborate on where you have found Bow of Nylea to be most useful? I actually really like the card. Oddly enough, my favorite mode is the "put four cards from your graveyard back in" given it's use AFTER you've "gone infinite" (if there is an important card in your graveyard). Also, giving all of your attacking creature Deathtouch is a HUGE deal to getting those few points of damage in that can make Shaman of the Pack lethal. I'm seriously considering it.
Excellent post and calling out what worked well in your deck. Like you I've gone to having 3 Dwynen's Elite. I was finding that to be a better number.
Root Maze - I've mostly set this card aside for now. With the extra combo interaction Dwynen's Elite provided I've focus my build to be faster game 1. Also, more Delvers are in my area and aren't nearly as punished by the card as other decks are. Having only 2 mana works for them and they still get 4/5 or 5/5 in there.
Bow of Nylea - This one is moving out of the main too. Now that I've removed Ezuri the deathtouch isn't as important. Where it really has shined was vs. Burn before Atarka's Command. Any repeatable lifegain is great in that match up. And vs. delver. I have two regulars at my LGS that being Grixis and UR delver and I've been happy to shoot every delver I can out of the sky. I've never used the 4 to bottom feature of the card. If I ever need cards in the Combo I usually grabbed Eternal Witness.
Weird Harvest - Please do test with it. It will play very similar to your build with Genesis Wave. The trick is you have to run Sabertooth and you have to have a feel for how much mana wins you the game right there. Some scenarios are easy:
Below are the maximum amount needed to Combo. These can be used as rough guides that let you feel how close you are. Usually having Heritage Druid and Nettle Sentinel on the battlefield lessens the numbers quite a bit.
0 -> 12 mana
1 -> 11 mana
2 -> 9 mana
3 -> 7 mana
4 -> 6 mana
5 -> 5 mana
6 -> 4 mana
Generally when I play I also try to think of would Genesis Wave be better in my hand than Weird Harvest. While they play the same here are a list of differences you'll need to get used to.
Weird Harvest Pros:
Barring removal you will win the turn you combo. Genesis Wave has a chance of not hitting a combo. But that is only a concern if your opponent will win next turn.
I see both decks having great potential and doing well with the new elves. And good or bad, depending on how you see it, these decks won't have popularity on MTGO. The Curio combo is just too slow for all the clicks needed. I've certainly done it, but it was annoying. I much prefer paper where shortcuts exist.
Hey guys, how do you feel this compares to CoCo Elves? I'm considering switching over to Combo.
There are a few differences I beleive are most important. I can only speak for my build (as it is all I have tested extensively); however I think many others are close to the same in the way they play. The main differences I've found are:
1. Combo Elves is more resilient than CoCo Elves. We tend to play less creatures and draw more cards; so (a) we are not as prone to being wiped out by removal and/or board wipes and (b) we simply throw more at the opponent over the course of a game. I've found in my testing that "Fair" decks and removal just don't effect us as heavily.
2. Combo Elves is less consistent than CoCo Elves. CoCo Elves pretty much is going to do it's thing. It gets to it's alpha strike between turns 4-5 on average a vast majority of the time (especially assuming little disruption). This allows the deck to feel somewhat confident when playing against other combo decks. Combo Elves has the speed necessary to win as early as turn 3; but the deck doesn't go "up the curve" like CoCo Elves does. For this reason, I personally believe the sideboard for Combo Elves should be more focused on combo deck hate. Combo decks are just as fast and in some cases actually faster in terms of absolute speed given the fact that the combo can "go infinite" on turn 3"...but CoCo Elves are more consistently fast (i.e. turn 4 win).
3. Combo Elves is more complex than CoCo Elves. This one requires a bit of explaining...
Combo Elves has (a) a lot more lines to think about, (b) many more triggers to think about, and (c) a lot more cards each turn to think about. You often have to think about what you may potentially draw into, how to tap your mana just in case of certain potential outcomes, when to play your land drop (just in case you draw into a Nykthos), etc.. This offers both pros and cons.
The biggest pro by far that I've found is that my opponent nearly never knows what I'm doing They don't know what to remove, what to respond to, when they should be responding, if and when I have the infinite combo, etc. It would be like playing against Twin where they have two additional combos outside of the main combo and could generate 12+ mana on turn 3...It's hard enough and there is enough to to think about when you can actually see the cards in hand...the opponent doesn't have that luxury My brother still has trouble knowing how to play against the deck with many of the top tier Modern decks; and he's played against it several hundred times!
The con of course is that you can misplay. Complex decks are tough to play by their nature. Irmo put it absolutely perfectly above when he said, "...these decks won't have popularity on MTGO. The Curio combo is just too slow for all the clicks needed..." It would take a lot of practice and many MTGO "shortcuts" to play the deck quickly enough to win regularly. Actually, this is one of the reasons I was so pumped about Shaman of the Pack...my prior version utilized the Eternal Witness+Primal Command lock as the main win condition. This is another additional step on top of the elf combo (as you have to loop them to bounce all of your opponent's permanents and gain a bunch of life...). At least with Shaman lethal comes very quickly.
There will be choices like, "do I cast the Messenger and string a few elves or do I just put all of the mana into Kessig Wolf Run and atrack with a 12/2 Nettle Sentinel..." that will depend entirely on the game state, opponent, your hand, etc. Often times there may not be a clear cut answer; and other times you will literally draw into the "oops I win" scenario where you draw into the combo when you weren't expecting it
I can say that once proficient with the deck/archetype (at least I have found) that the complexity of the deck is far more of an advantage than a disadvantage. You know what's going on....the opponent doesn't. It's not nearly as simple as "kill the first dork and any Ezuri they play..." to defend against Combo Elves. Every card has so many other synergies with multiple different cards that sometimes removing a Heritage Druid is far and away the best play where in other games using the removal spell on Heritage Druid will literally lead to them losing the game :). We draw so many cards that the opponent has to constantly wonder how close we are to an infinite combo, how much mana we could produce the next turn (it's hard to attack us when they only have 10 life if we have a Kessig Wolf Run on board as any elf can become a lethal attacker the very next turn....
4. Combo elves has more "lines" than CoCo Elves. What this means is we tend to win "in turn" (via things like Shaman, hitting the infinite combo, etc.); but also have the ability to simply attack for the win. With the creation of the new Origins elves; I can honestly say that the percentage of games I've one with combat damage is increased a hundred fold. Attacking for 5 damage on turn 2, 8 damage on turn 3 and then hitting a lethal Shaman on turn four.
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There are a few other differences between the decks; but I think I covered the big ones. In the end it really boils down to play-style preference. I honestly do believe that the current Combo Elves list is just as "competitive" as CoCo Elves in the hands of someone proficient in the deck; however it is far more complex and less linear.. It can be made more linear with cards like Summoners Pact; but that is another discussion entirely...
Cool deck! How important is Cloudstone Curio ? Is it worth playing Ancient Stirrings (it can also get nykthos, or at least a another land)?
Some other cards I thought of where Obelisk of Urd in place of 1-2 leyline. And Staff of Domination when you have inf mana or combine it with Elvish Archdruid to generate inf mana and draw the deck (with 4 other elfs).
These are all cool ideas! To answer your questions:
1. Cloudstone Curio is essential to the deck the way I've built it. It is the only way to infinitely loop many of the elves. You certainly, however, can make a more "aggro" based deck without Cloudstone that takes advantage of all of the elves as well. Destroyermaker has a list I know of a more "Stompy" version. Shaman of the Pack actually is great in a more aggro version as well.
2. I actually really like the idea of Ancient Stirrings...I honestly may be trying this out VERY soon. It hits Cloudstone, Nykthos, Kessig Wolf Run, and a few different cards that move in and out of the sideboard in certain metas. Also, if you end up playing Staff of Domination it hits that too. It's very efficiently costed; and turns where you "string" Nykthos's can win the game (i.e. trigger your Nykthos already in play, then play a Nykthos as your land for turn and trigger it...)
3. Obelisk of Urd is a card I haven't tested enough; but it seems good in tribal decks. Again, I bet it would be amazing in a more "aggro" version of elves.
4. I've made two different decks with Elvish Archdruid and Staff of Domination in the past. It's a great combo! It's nice in the sense that it both works if you have infinite mana via other cards AND creates it's own infinite combo with Archrduid. It also can combo off with Viridian Joiner...it's certainly worth testing (especially if you go a more "aggro" route without Cloudstone.
By all means, please feel free to post a more "aggro-based" version of Combo Elves on here too. You could easily make a deck with the Ezuri, Renegade Leader + 2x Devoted Druid infinite mana combo AND the Elvish Archdruid + Staff of Domination combo and make a cool combo deck without playing Cloudstone Curio at all! That's what makes elves so great!
I actually really like the Cloudstone Curio, I asked how important it was more to related to the possible inclusion of Ancient Sterrings in a build, rather the the total exclusion of it. But thous ideas looks super legit. I have played a fair amount of green devotion/ genesis wave / Primal Command decks and look at the deck more from that perspective rather then a coco-Ezuri one.
I wrote down the 42 non-lands I would start with in a staff and cloudstone build. Also Nylea's Presence on nykthos with a Arbor Elf, a staff and 5 more devotion pips also "wins" (lots of stipulations but really not that hard, especially after a wave for 6-10).
It is lightning fast and amazing to goldfish...but I can only imagine how tough it would he to play through removal and especially board wipes.
I'll post that list in a bit; and while it performed better than I had expected; I'd really have to test it in actuall play (as it just seems like taking out The right elf could halt it hard and board wipes would be far more detrimental...
I so badly want to use messenger though! Ha. I think she only works though, if you run close to 30 elves. I'm still going to try it at 25
I posted an "All Elves" version of the current Combo deck (with the new cards). It's actually very consistent and very fast! I haven't tested it against all of the top Tier decks though; so I could see it struggling with removal, having to pay for Pact's, etc. I'll let you know how it looks in testing as I test it more.
Yes, it would. It also triggers Intruder Alarm twice. Could be good in digging through lands with Beck.
There are so many directions we can go now!!! It's driving me crazy (in a good way) I'm currently testing three different versions of the deck:
1. My "devoted combo" version (only got better with the new elves...so most likely where I'm going to end up).
2. A version much more in line with "classic" Elf Combo (4x [[Summoner's Pact]], [[Beck]], etc.
3. An "all elves" version (running [[Sylvan Messenger]]
They are all good...so it's going to come down to actual testing against the meta to see where the weaknesses lie (and which has the best chance against the meta).
After about 9 hours testing; I ended up with a list I am going to move forward with testing tomorrow for extended testing. It is a noticeable departure from my prior list (8 cards in the main board changed and the land-base changed due to the change in color and the addition of a win-condition) but the "core" strategy is the same (overwhelm the board, "string" elves, and "loop" draw cards until you hit the combo. If you don't hit the combo, you can sink mana into a Wave (to Wave into the combo) or into another sink (in this case Kessig Wolf Run although in the past it was Ezuri, Renegade Leader...).
Here is the list:
4x Arbor Elf
4x Heritage Druid
4x Nettle Sentinel
4x Elvish Visionary
3x Dwynen's Elite
2x Shaman of the Pack
3x Sylvan Messenger
Enchantments
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Abundant Growth
2x Nylea's Presence
4x Cloudstone Curio
Sorcery/Instants
4x Genesis Wave
Land
4x Forest
2x Stomping Ground
2x Overgrown Tomb
2x Wooded Foothills
2x Verdant Catacombs
3x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Thoughtseize
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Cavern of Souls
4x Leyline of Vitality
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Evolutionary Leap
1x Temur Sabertooth
A few things that came out of testing and I thought may need extra explaining:
1. Kessig Wolf Run is stellar in an elf deck. We ramp so quickly and pretty much always have an elf on board; and even a single elf becomes a huge threat.
2. Nylea's Presence - this was added for a few reasons. Originally I just wanted another "draw a card" permanent; however I found this to actually be the best one as it allows Arbor Elf to untap Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx...although the elves make substantially more mana in this build (as you get more of them and traditionally get to a Heritage Druid and/or [[Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx]] very quickly);...having the ability to untap a Nykthos with Arbor Elf makes for very large Genesis Waves and Kessig Wolf Runs (as well as multiple "loops" of cantrip elves or enchantments.)
3. Sylvan Messenger - I originally thought that this card would be the one elf that may not make it into Modern; but it has drawn me an average of 2.3 cards and has been invaluable to keeping "strings" of elves going.
The losses were:
1. Coiling Oracle - This really hurt as this is probably my favorite card of all time. The deck ran slightly odd with 12 2-drops (Visionary, Oracle, and Elite) and I just couldn't justify splashing blue and not having Kessig Wolf Run available.
2. Garruk Wildspeaker - It was between him and Sylvan Messenger and Messenger simply just performed better.
There more about it here: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/modern-combo-elf-devotion/
With Garruk gone you are relying on Nylea's Presence for Nykthos untapping. In the Weird Harvest build I'm always happy to get two activations Nykthos. Are the extra elves found from Messenger making up for this?
I've always been interested in Presence as extra Abundant Growths. I also look at them with interest for their interaction with Choke. Could be fun as mana denial too. It is also good as a non-creature drawing when Torpor Orb comes out.
I was in kind of a pickle when testing...
1. The Green Devotion version of the deck seemed to work well as it was without the new cards...none semmed to push it beyond where it already was.
2. The new elves are just unreal with Cloudstone Curio. There had to be a reason they all had amazing ETB effects...
3. Kessig Wolf Run is simply amazing in elf decks. You need mama sinks (it's what makes Ezuri so good); but taking a few slots away from a "combo elf" for a mana sink hurts the synergy of the deck....Kessig Wolf Run Solves this issue.
With the above three, I was stuck with the following:
1. I couldn't really play Kessig Wolf Run, Shaman of the Pack, and Coiling Oracle in the same deck...four colors is just one to many in a deck running Nykthos (even with our land enchantnents).
2. I couldn't play both Garruk Wildspeaker and Sylvan Messenger in the same build (as both are 4-drops) and curve correctly.
I started by just replacing Eternal Witness and Primal Command with Shaman of the Pack...second cams replacing Coiling Oracle with Dwynen's Elite (as it's just unreal with Heritage Druid)...the deck was good, but I did feel the loss of card draw. There is an important line where you go from overwhelming the opponent to not having enough card draw)..
I originally had not planned on playing Sylvan Messenger; but decided to at minimum give it a try to see if it made up the card draw I wanted. The only problem was that it had to replace Garruk to keep the curve right. Without Garruk, I was down to just combo-ing or hitting large enough Shamans to win. I really wanted another win con. My first thought was Ezuru; but he seemed a little "clunky". Then it hit me...Because I no longer splashed blue; I could splash red and Kessig Wolf Run. It meant I could only play 1x Cavern of the Souls main-deck: but Shaman was the only non-Green elf in the deck (requiring one black mana) and my control match up is definitely winnable game one anyways.
Once these had all been tested through/decided on; I had 1-2 slots still open...I wanted the slots to be both ramp and card draw if possible (but Coiling Oracle was out of the picture). That's what led me to Nylea's Presence. It allows for those explosive turns with Arbor Elf untapping Nykthos's, is another enchantment that can be looped, is a means to put Utopia Sprawl on my non-Forests, aids my Weakness to Blood Moon, and is simple fixing for red and black mans...it kind of was a "catch all" or "glue" that enhanced a lot of the synergies in the deck.
At that point, the deck began playing extremely well. From there I continued testing until I was sure the deck performed as well or better than the devotion version. It plays slightly differently (it's more about stringing elves than the devotion deck is); but you just can't deby how powerful the new elves are.
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In the weird harvest version; I think you are right to keep Garruk Wildspeaker. I'm keeping it in the Devotion version. Being able to use his *1 to use Weird Harvest to tutor for several elves and at worst simply overrun then the following turn with his ultimate is pretty great synergy.
On Arbor Elf and Pithing Needle; I feel like the positives I get from the synergy with Utopia Sprawl and Nylea's Presence is worth it. I also have many games where I've used the land he untapped in response to being destroyed during either combat (with Kessig Wolf Run) or second main. If the meta gets very Pithing Needle heavy; I could certainly see making the change...Utopia Sprawl is also good in decks running Garruk as his +1 can Untap an enchanted land and a Nykthos (so he re-triggers Nykthos all by his self). It also helps me loop the "draw card" enchantnents (sometimes even if it's 2-G per card draw it's still worth it).
One cool thing about NOT running Arbor Elf and not running Ezuri is that you can run Damping Matrix in your board!
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Thanks DM!
I agree with you on Presence. That ended up being a small benefit of the card. It's the weakest card in the list. It just has so many mini-synergies/uses in the deck that it seemed worth it.
I could play an additional copy of a few of the elves I don't play full sets of; however the fact that they are 2-drops that draw a card just makes the curve "feel" right when testing.
Is still be interested to see a list without the enchantnents. I've enjoyrd the way they play with Arbir Elf and Curio; but it would be neat to see what others do with the extra 6 slots (as you'd replace Arbor Elf with Elvish Mystic and Utopia Sprawl with Llanowar Elves)....
I've got some more testing to do...but I really do feel they created many of the Origins Elves with Modern/Cloudstone Curio in mind. I even wrote Gavin Verhey saying thanks (he's a big combo elf fan too along with Jacob Van Lunen...so I'm assuming he had some say somewhere
I didn't say he designed the set. The designers on each set are not the only ones with any say in what ends up in the sets...there's a chance he may not have had anything to do with it; he's just written in the past about loving Combo Elves and wanting to see it in the future. Also, they've said in many articles, "this is actually a card X came up with when..." Sometimes they ask others for input, ideas, etc.band sometimes they use old ideas they've saved from prior set ideas.
I wouldn't be surprised if he had say in the fact that the elves work so well with both Cloudtone Curio and Heritage Druid....if it is a coincidence its a happy one! If someone else was responsible, I would bet he'd let me know via email. I just meant I was sharing my excitement and enthusiasm for the new elves with a member of Wizards who had expressed similar love for combo elves in the past.
I'm curious - what do you use for your goldfishing experiments? How do you playtest your deck before taking it out?
I do a lot of digital testing on Cockatrice; but to be entirely honest I have a twin brother who is just as nuts as I am; so we are able to test paper pretty much every night. I do enjoy Cockatrice for goldfishingn though, and even testing (because you can build any opponent deck you want and play against it). It's not exactly the same (because you know what cards each player has); but it does give you insight you couldn't get just in "theory crafting".
P.S. Trying out a 1-2 of Elvish Archdruid....I honestly think it may be too slow for the combo build; however as a 1-of it may work...we'll see. I'm certainly going to test it though! I'll let everyone know how it goes tonight.
4x Arbor Elf
4x Heritage Druid
4x Nettle Sentinel
1x Elvish Mystic
4x Elvish Visionary
4x Dwynen's Elite
2x Shaman of the Pack
3x Sylvan Messenger
Artifacts/Enchantments
4x Cloudstone Curio
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Abundant Growth
4x Genesis Wave
Lands
4x Forest
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Overgrown Tomb
1x Stomping Ground
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2x Kessig Wolf Run
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Thoughtseize
4x Leyline of Vitality
1x Stain the Mind
1x Evolutionary Leap
1x Bonfire of the Damned
1x Reclamation Sage
Trying out both Thorn of Amethyst and Evolutionary Leap in the board over Cavern of Souls...I'll rtest more; but from my first set of testing; we seem to already be pretty favored against control.
The only other change is running a fourth Dwynen's Elite and an Elvish Mystuic over Nylea's Presence. Sylvan Messenger and Elites have both helped maintain the card advantage...in actually really liking the one-of Mystic (really smooths things out quite a bit). If I find I want a little more card-draw: I may go back down to 3x Elite and 1x Nylea's Presence.
4 Llanowar Elves
2 Elvish Mystic
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Elvish Archdruid
1 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
1 Essence Warden
1 Temur Sabertooth
3 Cloudstone Curio
1 Bow of Nylea
Enchantments
4 Abundant Growth
3 Root Maze
Sorceries
4 Weird Harvest
Instants
1 Research // Development
Planeswalkers
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
Lands
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Cavern of Souls
11 Forest
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Beast Within
3 Vines of Vastwood
2 Choke
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Bow of Nylea
1 Nullmage Shepherd
2 Reclamation Sage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Yeva, Nature's Herald
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
Match 1, Grixis Delver, 1-2
Game 1 Loss. Mulliganed to 6 and kept a hand with Bow of Nylea, Curio, Heritage, Forest, Mystic, Visionary. Eventually drew into a Root Maze that I played. I should've kept it in my hand vs. Delver. I ended up drawing into the Combo, but needed my topdeck to be an elf to generate the mana. Instead I got a land that came into play tapped.
Game 2 Win. After losing to my own Root maze all three came out and Bow + Choke came in. Mulligan to 6 again and kept a hand with Choke. Choke bought enough time trapping 3 Serum Visions in my opponents hand that I was able to combo. Win
Game 3 Loss. Mulligan to 6. This game Bow did a lot of work shooting Delver's out of the air, but doesn't do much vs. Gurmag Angler. Removal kept me off of the mana needed to combo and eventually Angler got in enough times.
Match 2, Mono-U Tron, 2-1
Game 1 Loss. Mulligan to 6 (I sense a pattern here). Tron comes online turn 4 along with Mind Slaver. I don't have the tools to win next turn, but the most damage the Slaver can do is tap some of my elves for mana. The next turn Acadamy Ruins shows up and I concede. I don't have the cards to win that turn and the lock will be available. I also take the time to educate my opponent that they could've asked to see my sideboard when they activated Slaver.
Game 2 Win. I side in Nullmage Shepherd, both Reclamation Sages, and Fracturing Gust and remove Essense Warden, one Abundant Growth, Bow, and Research. I start this game off with a mulligan to 4 with Forest, Llanowar Elves, Archdruid, and Visionary. I drew into a land on turn 2 so played the archdruid and my opponent plays Torpor Orb. So now I'm off the combo plan, but I start slowly chipping away at life. My opponent kept a very slow hand and was relying on Treasure Mage to get Wurmcoil or Slaver. Unfortunately he forgot the Torpor Orb shuts this down too. After several turns and my opponent using Thirst for Knowledge three times I was able to take the last few points of damage. I didn't expect to win this game, but my opponent just wasn't drawing into anything except mana.
Game 3 Win. Mulligan to 6 and quickly put enough mana together with Nykthos and Garruk to Weird Harvest for the Combo. Unfortunately without Research I can't go for my Alt-Combo win and try to attack with one 700/700 Nettle Sentinel. That is quickly Repealed and my opponent gets one more turn. Fortunately they did not draw into Ugin and lay down Mindslaver. I remind them that Root Maze causes it to come into play tapped and destroy it with Nullmage for good measure. My opponent concedes.
Match 3, Abzan Company, 1-2
Game 1 Win. Mulligan to 6 (Have to keep with the theme). My hand has all 4 pieces of the Curio Combo and I quickly go off.
Game 2 Loss. I keep my hand of 7 even though it was weak. Should've kept up on the Mulliganing. The game was fun and very grindy. My Bow shot down 2 birds, and Orzhov Pontiff did work on some elves about to receive +3/+3 and trample. Finally Gavony Township makes the opposing side to large and I succumb.
Game 3 Loss. Keep a hand that is fast and interactive. This time shooting down 3 birds. I misplayed the last turn of the Match and lost because of it. I was excited and had enough mana for the Weird Harvest Combo and went for it. I grabbed some redundant Heritage Druids and Visionaries for the Combo, but should've grabbed Yeva and an Archdruid. Pontiff came down mid combo and that was that.
I wish I had another me to test against every night.
hahaha! Yes...that is indeed the biggest advantage I've found in life to having a twin
Made a couple tiny changes during testing..Current List:
4x Arbor Elf
4x Heritage Druid
4x Nettle Sentinel
2x Elvish Mystic
4x Elvish Visionary
3x Dwynen's Elite
2x Shaman of the Pack
3x Sylvan Messenger
Artifacts/Enchantments
4x Cloudstone Curio
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Abundant Growth
4x Genesis Wave
Lands
3x Forest
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Overgrown Tomb
1x Stomping Ground
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Gilt-Leaf Palace
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Thoughtseize
4x Leyline of Vitality
2x Stain the Mind
1x Bonfire of the Damned
1x Reclamation Sage
Changes Include:
1. Removed 1 copy of Dwynen's Elite and added a copy of Elvish Mystic...Dwynen's Elite is AMAZING; but it is situational; so three seems to work well. I didn't mind a full set too much though...I just feel I will get more out of an additional Mystic.
2. Added one Gilt-Leaf Palace in place of one Forest. Just gives me another black source without taking damage. I have a LOT of black sources (between all of the fetches, Overgrown Tombs, and the Abundant Growt and Utopia Sprawls....but you really need a lot when playing Thoughtseize and Stain the Mind (as they are generally played early in games 2 and 3).
3. Removed Evolutionary Leap and replaced it with Bonfire of the Damned. It actually is for a pretty simple reason...I didn't need the Evolutionary Leap. Fair decks have a VERY difficult time beating this deck; even with one or more board wipes...there is just too much incremental advantage. I found myself not playing it simply because I didn't need it. It's a REALLY cool card when it is played though. I can totally see it being amazing in both devotion decks, CoCo Elves, and many CoCo decks.
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The combo deck has came up in conversation in a few other places (including the CoCo Elves page) and it appears as though we've got our work cut out for us explaining how Combo Elves now plays. Many still consider the deck the old Intruder Alarms elves by Twoo or the Extended Elves (less all of the banned cards) that runs 4x Summoner's Pact, Regal Force, etc. I do think there is a VERY fast and linear version out there...but I think the current versions we are playing (that can win very quickly but also have huge sums of built-in card/resource advantage) are the future of "Combo Elves" though.
I need to post a few videos, etc. as this is the best way to depict the deck lists on here and the card choices/interactions. It is very difficult for many to see how the cards work together; so I completely understand. I still struggle with some cards/interactions
I am going to try to test Weird Harvest some more too. It does seem extremely good....I just think I haven't played it enough to be proficient with it.
Can you elaborate on where you have found Bow of Nylea to be most useful? I actually really like the card. Oddly enough, my favorite mode is the "put four cards from your graveyard back in" given it's use AFTER you've "gone infinite" (if there is an important card in your graveyard). Also, giving all of your attacking creature Deathtouch is a HUGE deal to getting those few points of damage in that can make Shaman of the Pack lethal. I'm seriously considering it.
Excellent post and calling out what worked well in your deck. Like you I've gone to having 3 Dwynen's Elite. I was finding that to be a better number.
Root Maze - I've mostly set this card aside for now. With the extra combo interaction Dwynen's Elite provided I've focus my build to be faster game 1. Also, more Delvers are in my area and aren't nearly as punished by the card as other decks are. Having only 2 mana works for them and they still get 4/5 or 5/5 in there.
Bow of Nylea - This one is moving out of the main too. Now that I've removed Ezuri the deathtouch isn't as important. Where it really has shined was vs. Burn before Atarka's Command. Any repeatable lifegain is great in that match up. And vs. delver. I have two regulars at my LGS that being Grixis and UR delver and I've been happy to shoot every delver I can out of the sky. I've never used the 4 to bottom feature of the card. If I ever need cards in the Combo I usually grabbed Eternal Witness.
Weird Harvest - Please do test with it. It will play very similar to your build with Genesis Wave. The trick is you have to run Sabertooth and you have to have a feel for how much mana wins you the game right there. Some scenarios are easy:
Generally when I play I also try to think of would Genesis Wave be better in my hand than Weird Harvest. While they play the same here are a list of differences you'll need to get used to.
Weird Harvest Pros:
Weird Harvest Cons:
I see both decks having great potential and doing well with the new elves. And good or bad, depending on how you see it, these decks won't have popularity on MTGO. The Curio combo is just too slow for all the clicks needed. I've certainly done it, but it was annoying. I much prefer paper where shortcuts exist.
There are a few differences I beleive are most important. I can only speak for my build (as it is all I have tested extensively); however I think many others are close to the same in the way they play. The main differences I've found are:
1. Combo Elves is more resilient than CoCo Elves. We tend to play less creatures and draw more cards; so (a) we are not as prone to being wiped out by removal and/or board wipes and (b) we simply throw more at the opponent over the course of a game. I've found in my testing that "Fair" decks and removal just don't effect us as heavily.
2. Combo Elves is less consistent than CoCo Elves. CoCo Elves pretty much is going to do it's thing. It gets to it's alpha strike between turns 4-5 on average a vast majority of the time (especially assuming little disruption). This allows the deck to feel somewhat confident when playing against other combo decks. Combo Elves has the speed necessary to win as early as turn 3; but the deck doesn't go "up the curve" like CoCo Elves does. For this reason, I personally believe the sideboard for Combo Elves should be more focused on combo deck hate. Combo decks are just as fast and in some cases actually faster in terms of absolute speed given the fact that the combo can "go infinite" on turn 3"...but CoCo Elves are more consistently fast (i.e. turn 4 win).
3. Combo Elves is more complex than CoCo Elves. This one requires a bit of explaining...
Combo Elves has (a) a lot more lines to think about, (b) many more triggers to think about, and (c) a lot more cards each turn to think about. You often have to think about what you may potentially draw into, how to tap your mana just in case of certain potential outcomes, when to play your land drop (just in case you draw into a Nykthos), etc.. This offers both pros and cons.
The biggest pro by far that I've found is that my opponent nearly never knows what I'm doing They don't know what to remove, what to respond to, when they should be responding, if and when I have the infinite combo, etc. It would be like playing against Twin where they have two additional combos outside of the main combo and could generate 12+ mana on turn 3...It's hard enough and there is enough to to think about when you can actually see the cards in hand...the opponent doesn't have that luxury My brother still has trouble knowing how to play against the deck with many of the top tier Modern decks; and he's played against it several hundred times!
The con of course is that you can misplay. Complex decks are tough to play by their nature. Irmo put it absolutely perfectly above when he said, "...these decks won't have popularity on MTGO. The Curio combo is just too slow for all the clicks needed..." It would take a lot of practice and many MTGO "shortcuts" to play the deck quickly enough to win regularly. Actually, this is one of the reasons I was so pumped about Shaman of the Pack...my prior version utilized the Eternal Witness+Primal Command lock as the main win condition. This is another additional step on top of the elf combo (as you have to loop them to bounce all of your opponent's permanents and gain a bunch of life...). At least with Shaman lethal comes very quickly.
There will be choices like, "do I cast the Messenger and string a few elves or do I just put all of the mana into Kessig Wolf Run and atrack with a 12/2 Nettle Sentinel..." that will depend entirely on the game state, opponent, your hand, etc. Often times there may not be a clear cut answer; and other times you will literally draw into the "oops I win" scenario where you draw into the combo when you weren't expecting it
I can say that once proficient with the deck/archetype (at least I have found) that the complexity of the deck is far more of an advantage than a disadvantage. You know what's going on....the opponent doesn't. It's not nearly as simple as "kill the first dork and any Ezuri they play..." to defend against Combo Elves. Every card has so many other synergies with multiple different cards that sometimes removing a Heritage Druid is far and away the best play where in other games using the removal spell on Heritage Druid will literally lead to them losing the game :). We draw so many cards that the opponent has to constantly wonder how close we are to an infinite combo, how much mana we could produce the next turn (it's hard to attack us when they only have 10 life if we have a Kessig Wolf Run on board as any elf can become a lethal attacker the very next turn....
4. Combo elves has more "lines" than CoCo Elves. What this means is we tend to win "in turn" (via things like Shaman, hitting the infinite combo, etc.); but also have the ability to simply attack for the win. With the creation of the new Origins elves; I can honestly say that the percentage of games I've one with combat damage is increased a hundred fold. Attacking for 5 damage on turn 2, 8 damage on turn 3 and then hitting a lethal Shaman on turn four.
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There are a few other differences between the decks; but I think I covered the big ones. In the end it really boils down to play-style preference. I honestly do believe that the current Combo Elves list is just as "competitive" as CoCo Elves in the hands of someone proficient in the deck; however it is far more complex and less linear.. It can be made more linear with cards like Summoners Pact; but that is another discussion entirely...
These are all cool ideas! To answer your questions:
1. Cloudstone Curio is essential to the deck the way I've built it. It is the only way to infinitely loop many of the elves. You certainly, however, can make a more "aggro" based deck without Cloudstone that takes advantage of all of the elves as well. Destroyermaker has a list I know of a more "Stompy" version. Shaman of the Pack actually is great in a more aggro version as well.
2. I actually really like the idea of Ancient Stirrings...I honestly may be trying this out VERY soon. It hits Cloudstone, Nykthos, Kessig Wolf Run, and a few different cards that move in and out of the sideboard in certain metas. Also, if you end up playing Staff of Domination it hits that too. It's very efficiently costed; and turns where you "string" Nykthos's can win the game (i.e. trigger your Nykthos already in play, then play a Nykthos as your land for turn and trigger it...)
3. Obelisk of Urd is a card I haven't tested enough; but it seems good in tribal decks. Again, I bet it would be amazing in a more "aggro" version of elves.
4. I've made two different decks with Elvish Archdruid and Staff of Domination in the past. It's a great combo! It's nice in the sense that it both works if you have infinite mana via other cards AND creates it's own infinite combo with Archrduid. It also can combo off with Viridian Joiner...it's certainly worth testing (especially if you go a more "aggro" route without Cloudstone.
By all means, please feel free to post a more "aggro-based" version of Combo Elves on here too. You could easily make a deck with the Ezuri, Renegade Leader + 2x Devoted Druid infinite mana combo AND the Elvish Archdruid + Staff of Domination combo and make a cool combo deck without playing Cloudstone Curio at all! That's what makes elves so great!
This is an AWESOME idea
I LOVE what you've done here. The opponent is rarely going to be able to stop the combo...because you have so many of them!!