This won a Modern Daily on the 14th, looking at the deck it's basically Swans combo. Has anyone had any experience with the new Swans? It's an interesting take certainly, but it also comes down to; is it rogue to confuse people or is that effective?
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Yeah, I saw that and I've been testing with his list but with a few changes. When it works you win. Period. It's almost combo-ish but it's a control deck at it's core. I like it better than most UWr Control builds.
Here's my deck I've been test playing.
So the idea is to control the board until you can cast Swans of Bryn Argoll and Skred in the same turn late, and then just bury the opponent in card advantage?
I just don't know if it seems smart to run Swans of Bryn Argoll in a meta where the most played removal spell in the format is Lightning Bolt.
I was skeptical too when I first saw the list but when I changed my mind when played it. We have 4 Stubborn Denial's and 3 Snapcaster Mage's in the main and the Swans turn ferocious on. So that's a quite a few copies of protection from bolt. When I played it I countered and killed things till I drew a Swan and then it was pretty much over. They may bolt it and draw 3 but next turn I'm Skred'ing the Swan and drawing 5-8 cards for 1 mana. It's insane as it sounds. Plus I play the Dragonlord as an alternate win con and he's CA with being hard to kill too. The only other card I'm not sure of is Anger of the Gods, tho it is a good sweeper right now with Melira and Elf decks making a rise.
I'll be playing this more this week and will be posting results here and probably on the UWr Control primer.
It's interesting. I'd considering just cutting white all together. UR has enough good sideboard options. Is it really worth running white without Path To Exile or Celestial Colonnade. If you go UR, you can probably mainboard Blood Moon or at the bare minimum just have a more consistent mana base.
Cryptic Command isn't viable with 7 of your non fetch lands not making blue mana. Perhaps the snow colorless lands are just too cute.
So far I haven't had a problem casting Cryptic Command with the mana base as of right now. I will be trying to fit a Hallowed Fountain in the deck somewhere. On a few occasions I really wanted a white/blue source when I wanted to cast a turn 4 Cryptic into a turn 5 Dragonlord.
Anyway, the deck is by no means perfect and still needs tweaks but overall it's pretty strong. You have to practice with the deck on knowing what lands to fetch. Also, you definitely have to think a few turns ahead on what you could draw and how you will use those cards.
As for dropping white mana. Dragonlord Ojutai is just too strong of a finisher to not have white. Plus you get sweet sideboard cards specifically Celestial Purge for Lili.
This deck needs some card draw hate. Not Spirit of the Labyrinth, as you'll want to draw, but something to stop the opponent. I thought there wa a spell that let you draw a card for each spell your opponent drew that turn, but I can't recall.
This deck needs some card draw hate. Not Spirit of the Labyrinth, as you'll want to draw, but something to stop the opponent. I thought there wa a spell that let you draw a card for each spell your opponent drew that turn, but I can't recall.
There's something similar to that called Plagiarize.
A black splash version could use Notion Thief instead, which would be gross until the red-splashing opposing deck boots Swans.
--How necessary is Scrying Sheets? And the snow theme in general? Is Skred that good of a burn spell to force the snow lands, or could you make do with a more "traditional" mana base and cards like Lightning Helix instead? At the very least I'm not a fan of the Sheets because it's really not going to give you that much card advantage over the course of the game; you have less than a 1 in 6 chance of drawing a card off it. I'd rather have something like Tectonic Edge there instead. Or another white source.
--Against burn, what's the deck's alternate plan in games 2 and 3? I'm assuming you board out the Swans as to not give your opponent free card draw, so do you just turn into a traditional UWR control list?
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EDH GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG UBRNicol Bolas and his SuperfriendsPawnsUBR
Modern UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW WUBRGHumansWUBRG BGMidrangeBG
i think 3 colors is too much to still be able to do the snow theme. if you want to play skred, stick with RW or RU. i mean, a 3 color mana base might work with coldsteel heart but that doesnt really seem competitive.
The only thing compelling me to play the OP build is that the guy playing the deck has been testing it for a long time and has come to this build with a 4-0 daily. Looping Skred with Soulfire Grand master over and over again is big game against a huge amount of the field right now. I want to do that!
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The only thing compelling me to play the OP build is that the guy playing the deck has been testing it for a long time and has come to this build with a 4-0 daily. Looping Skred with Soulfire Grand master over and over again is big game against a huge amount of the field right now. I want to do that!
Looping Skred with Soulfire is definitely sweet, but it also seems like overkill. If you get to beat down with Swans plus draw a new grip with Skred, I'd imagine that you've already pulled so far ahead at this point that what you do next doesn't matter as much. He also only runs 2 of them. On paper it looks tough to have RR on turn 3 for Anger and UUU on turn 4 for Cryptic + W somewhere in there with a mana base mostly consisting of basics. And if you go ahead and fetch duals, you deevaluate Skred.
I agree though, there's some merits in running his 75 a couple of times before making major changes.
I've been watching CalebD give this deck ago, and from what I can tell, once you've got looping Skred, you can machinegun down any of your opponent's creatures before they become an issue, and gain enough like to stay out of the distance.
Drawing cards isn't, surprisingly, always the best answer. =P
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
i think 3 colors is too much to still be able to do the snow theme. if you want to play skred, stick with RW or RU. i mean, a 3 color mana base might work with coldsteel heart but that doesnt really seem competitive.
Is the 2 white cards in main enough to drag this manabase down? there are only 2 white sources (not counting fetches as well.
He went 0-2 in the daily event he was playing, but that was probably because he was multiqueuing, and this is a deck that needs a fair bit of attention.
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
--How necessary is Scrying Sheets? And the snow theme in general? Is Skred that good of a burn spell to force the snow lands, or could you make do with a more "traditional" mana base and cards like Lightning Helix instead? At the very least I'm not a fan of the Sheets because it's really not going to give you that much card advantage over the course of the game; you have less than a 1 in 6 chance of drawing a card off it. I'd rather have something like Tectonic Edge there instead. Or another white source.
--Against burn, what's the deck's alternate plan in games 2 and 3? I'm assuming you board out the Swans as to not give your opponent free card draw, so do you just turn into a traditional UWR control list?
Scrying Sheets gets pretty bad the fewer Snow cards you run, so I don't think it's necessary if you're in 2 or more colours (which, with Skred and Swans, you are). I cut down to 1 Sheets with 8 fetches and a shock and I still don't get mondo CA from it like I do with Skred Red.
Mouth of Ronom, on the other hand...it's a fine failsafe as a 1-of. You can even punch your own Swans with it and draw cards!
Skred is THAT good with Swans. Drawing 6 cards or more with 1 Skred isn't uncommon. Skred Swans in response to removal, then draw Stubborn Denial and counter the removal is the best feeling in the world.
Even with my 2 Stubborn Denial list, URx Skred Swans is surprisingly good against Burn, to the point that I WILL play Swans against Burn as long as I have a counterspell up. Admittedly, I did update my list to support 2 Cryptic Command, which definitely helps make Burn 2 spells shy of lethal.
Swans basically needs counter support against Burn, though. Bringing in anti-midrange stuff such as Batterskull and Keranos against Burn just to replace Swans isn't that shabby an idea.
Swans keeps sucking for me against UWR. I win the counter war, then they send 2 Bolt-caliber burn spells at it, then draw Path to Exile and boot it while I have 0-1 mana up. They regularly use it as a draw spell that I can't take advantage of. Board out Swans against them.
--How necessary is Scrying Sheets? And the snow theme in general? Is Skred that good of a burn spell to force the snow lands, or could you make do with a more "traditional" mana base and cards like Lightning Helix instead? At the very least I'm not a fan of the Sheets because it's really not going to give you that much card advantage over the course of the game; you have less than a 1 in 6 chance of drawing a card off it. I'd rather have something like Tectonic Edge there instead. Or another white source.
--Against burn, what's the deck's alternate plan in games 2 and 3? I'm assuming you board out the Swans as to not give your opponent free card draw, so do you just turn into a traditional UWR control list?
Scrying Sheets gets pretty bad the fewer Snow cards you run, so I don't think it's necessary if you're in 2 or more colours (which, with Skred and Swans, you are). I cut down to 1 Sheets with 8 fetches and a shock and I still don't get mondo CA from it like I do with Skred Red.
Mouth of Ronom, on the other hand...it's a fine failsafe as a 1-of. You can even punch your own Swans with it and draw cards!
Skred is THAT good with Swans. Drawing 6 cards or more with 1 Skred isn't uncommon. Skred Swans in response to removal, then draw Stubborn Denial and counter the removal is the best feeling in the world.
Even with my 2 Stubborn Denial list, URx Skred Swans is surprisingly good against Burn, to the point that I WILL play Swans against Burn as long as I have a counterspell up. Admittedly, I did update my list to support 2 Cryptic Command, which definitely helps make Burn 2 spells shy of lethal.
Swans basically needs counter support against Burn, though. Bringing in anti-midrange stuff such as Batterskull and Keranos against Burn just to replace Swans isn't that shabby an idea.
Swans keeps sucking for me against UWR. I win the counter war, then they send 2 Bolt-caliber burn spells at it, then draw Path to Exile and boot it while I have 0-1 mana up. They regularly use it as a draw spell that I can't take advantage of. Board out Swans against them.
Would it be possible to see your list so I can get some ideas? I've loved Swans ever since it was printed and would love to make a deck like this work.
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EDH GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG UBRNicol Bolas and his SuperfriendsPawnsUBR
Modern UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW WUBRGHumansWUBRG BGMidrangeBG
Would it be possible to see your list so I can get some ideas? I've loved Swans ever since it was printed and would love to make a deck like this work.
Here's my current list, which does blend features from RaptureReady's lists:
I didn't like how RaptureReady's first list had no general hard counters, so when he released his second list with Cryptic Command, I jammed them in.
V. Clique is there to pseudo-Thoughtseize (the almost-hard denial is dandy), swing hard, and lure Bolts so they don't hit Swans.
Izzet Charm is a soft counter that kills some stuff and draws 2 cards when it hits Swans late-game (making it less useless late-game than other soft counters).
The current worst slot in the list is Electrolyze--it's a crummy expensive way to draw 3 cards late-game, and I don't need the Forked Bolt part as much when Anger of the Gods is maindecked. I might replace it with Pillar of Flame or something like that--this deck can't handle stuff that comes back from the dead so well.
I've been having a hard time winning against Junk Midrange with this list. At least the Twin match-up is fairly good.
I've been running a list smilar to your list lectrys. I've been running 3 Boros reckoner. It's been really great to close of games fast. Either a large skred in response to a block or a nice big harvest pyre. I've had a great success rate with jund and delver/twin.
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[RaptureReady's Snow Swans
3x Snow-Covered Mountain
1x Snow-Covered Plains
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Flooded Strand
3x Arid Mesa
1x Scrying Sheets
1x Steam Vents
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Mouth of Ronom
3x Snapcaster Mage
2x Soulfire Grandmaster
4x Swans of Bryn Argoll
2x Anger of the Gods
4x Serum Visions
2x Cryptic Command
1x Harvest Pyre
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Mana Leak
4x Remand
4x Skred
4x Spell Snare
4x Stubborn Denial
2x Celestial Purge
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Lightning Helix
1x Shatterstorm
1x Wear//Tear
2x Blood Moon
2x Counterflux
1x Keranos, God of Storms
1x Rending Volley
1x Stony Silence
This won a Modern Daily on the 14th, looking at the deck it's basically Swans combo. Has anyone had any experience with the new Swans? It's an interesting take certainly, but it also comes down to; is it rogue to confuse people or is that effective?
Modern
Commander
Cube
<a href="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-lists/588020-unpowered-themed-enchantment-an-enchanted-evening">An Enchanted Evening Cube </a>
Here's my deck I've been test playing.
4 Swans of Bryn Argoll
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Dragonlord Ojutai
Spells (29)
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Remand
2 Anticipate
4 Skred
4 Stubborn Denial
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Cryptic Command
2 Mana Leak
2 Spell Snare
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Snow-Covered Island
3 Arid Mesa
3 Flooded Strand
3 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Mouth of Ronom
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Scrying Sheets
1 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Steam Vents
2 Blood Moon
2 Celestial Purge
2 Counterflux
2 Lightning Helix
1 Batterskull
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Rending Volley
1 Shatterstorm
1 Stony Silence
1 Wear//Tear
I just don't know if it seems smart to run Swans of Bryn Argoll in a meta where the most played removal spell in the format is Lightning Bolt.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
I'll be playing this more this week and will be posting results here and probably on the UWr Control primer.
Hope this helps!
The deck looks sweet though. Value Swans is something I've been thinking about myself at some point.
Cryptic Command isn't viable with 7 of your non fetch lands not making blue mana. Perhaps the snow colorless lands are just too cute.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Anyway, the deck is by no means perfect and still needs tweaks but overall it's pretty strong. You have to practice with the deck on knowing what lands to fetch. Also, you definitely have to think a few turns ahead on what you could draw and how you will use those cards.
As for dropping white mana. Dragonlord Ojutai is just too strong of a finisher to not have white. Plus you get sweet sideboard cards specifically Celestial Purge for Lili.
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There's something similar to that called Plagiarize.
A black splash version could use Notion Thief instead, which would be gross until the red-splashing opposing deck boots Swans.
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Running a maindeck Sword of Fire and Ice would be funny. Buff the Swan, and draw 3 cards whenever it connects? Seems decent to me.
--How necessary is Scrying Sheets? And the snow theme in general? Is Skred that good of a burn spell to force the snow lands, or could you make do with a more "traditional" mana base and cards like Lightning Helix instead? At the very least I'm not a fan of the Sheets because it's really not going to give you that much card advantage over the course of the game; you have less than a 1 in 6 chance of drawing a card off it. I'd rather have something like Tectonic Edge there instead. Or another white source.
--Against burn, what's the deck's alternate plan in games 2 and 3? I'm assuming you board out the Swans as to not give your opponent free card draw, so do you just turn into a traditional UWR control list?
GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW
UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW
UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG
UBRNicol Bolas and his Super
friendsPawnsUBRModern
UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW
WUBRGHumansWUBRG
BGMidrangeBG
Looping Skred with Soulfire is definitely sweet, but it also seems like overkill. If you get to beat down with Swans plus draw a new grip with Skred, I'd imagine that you've already pulled so far ahead at this point that what you do next doesn't matter as much. He also only runs 2 of them. On paper it looks tough to have RR on turn 3 for Anger and UUU on turn 4 for Cryptic + W somewhere in there with a mana base mostly consisting of basics. And if you go ahead and fetch duals, you deevaluate Skred.
I agree though, there's some merits in running his 75 a couple of times before making major changes.
Also, thoughts on Grim Lavamancer?
Drawing cards isn't, surprisingly, always the best answer. =P
Is the 2 white cards in main enough to drag this manabase down? there are only 2 white sources (not counting fetches as well.
Hehe for some reason I got blinded by the Swan and forgot that Skred does other stuff too.
He went 0-2 in the daily event he was playing, but that was probably because he was multiqueuing, and this is a deck that needs a fair bit of attention.
Scrying Sheets gets pretty bad the fewer Snow cards you run, so I don't think it's necessary if you're in 2 or more colours (which, with Skred and Swans, you are). I cut down to 1 Sheets with 8 fetches and a shock and I still don't get mondo CA from it like I do with Skred Red.
Mouth of Ronom, on the other hand...it's a fine failsafe as a 1-of. You can even punch your own Swans with it and draw cards!
Skred is THAT good with Swans. Drawing 6 cards or more with 1 Skred isn't uncommon. Skred Swans in response to removal, then draw Stubborn Denial and counter the removal is the best feeling in the world.
Even with my 2 Stubborn Denial list, URx Skred Swans is surprisingly good against Burn, to the point that I WILL play Swans against Burn as long as I have a counterspell up. Admittedly, I did update my list to support 2 Cryptic Command, which definitely helps make Burn 2 spells shy of lethal.
Swans basically needs counter support against Burn, though. Bringing in anti-midrange stuff such as Batterskull and Keranos against Burn just to replace Swans isn't that shabby an idea.
Swans keeps sucking for me against UWR. I win the counter war, then they send 2 Bolt-caliber burn spells at it, then draw Path to Exile and boot it while I have 0-1 mana up. They regularly use it as a draw spell that I can't take advantage of. Board out Swans against them.
Would it be possible to see your list so I can get some ideas? I've loved Swans ever since it was printed and would love to make a deck like this work.
GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW
UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW
UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG
UBRNicol Bolas and his Super
friendsPawnsUBRModern
UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW
WUBRGHumansWUBRG
BGMidrangeBG
Here's my current list, which does blend features from RaptureReady's lists:
1 Mouth of Ronom
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
1 Steam Vents
4 Snow-Covered Mountain
8 Snow-Covered Island
Creatures
4 Swans of Bryn Argoll
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
Spells
4 Skred
2 Anticipate
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Stubborn Denial
4 Remand
2 Spell Snare
2 Mana Leak
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Serum Visions
1 Harvest Pyre
1 Electrolyze
2 Cryptic Command
1 Izzet Charm
3 Blood Moon
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Roast
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Shatterstorm
2 Counterflux
1 Rending Volley
2 Spellskite
1 Batterskull
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Annul
I didn't like how RaptureReady's first list had no general hard counters, so when he released his second list with Cryptic Command, I jammed them in.
V. Clique is there to pseudo-Thoughtseize (the almost-hard denial is dandy), swing hard, and lure Bolts so they don't hit Swans.
Izzet Charm is a soft counter that kills some stuff and draws 2 cards when it hits Swans late-game (making it less useless late-game than other soft counters).
The current worst slot in the list is Electrolyze--it's a crummy expensive way to draw 3 cards late-game, and I don't need the Forked Bolt part as much when Anger of the Gods is maindecked. I might replace it with Pillar of Flame or something like that--this deck can't handle stuff that comes back from the dead so well.
I've been having a hard time winning against Junk Midrange with this list. At least the Twin match-up is fairly good.