I love the detain mechanic and how versatile it is. But I also like to beat down opponents fairly quickly. I created this little lovechild as a combination of both, and call the deck "Mass Incarceration" (a little dramatic, I know).
I want to get into competitive Modern play and this is my first attempt at a deck that isn't one of the dime-a-dozen decks that usually pop up (twin, storm, burn, token, etc etc) in tourneys that could also potentially be good enough to not get countered. Twin/storm/beater decks would probably be easier for me to deal with since detain mechanics do so well against combos and large creatures. Also, Detention Sphere effectively ruins token-based mechanics since all tokens would be exiled with it. Burn would be a little more difficult for me to play against but I would try to get out Aegis of the Gods and counter any attempts to take him out (this is where my sideboard would come in handy).
The main areas that I'm weakest at and would like suggestions with are 1) Mana ramp and 2) Draw mechanics. So far, my only source of mana ramp (as you can see) is the two Gilded Lotus and the only draw I have is Azorius Charm. Are there any auras that allow draw when creature deals damage to player? My average CMC is 2.88 so I'm not to worried about ramping but generally speaking I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Gilded Lotus is too expensive of a ramp card to play competitively.
Umm... I don't know how else to say this except that you've presented us with a pile, based on a mechanic that is mostly a joke in modern, with the shining paragons of modern removal including prison term, gilded lotus and render silent in a deck with 20 lands, and lavinia of the tenth.
Your deck is not competitive, and it is in fact so far from competitive it's laughable. I suggest you take your idea for a UW "detain" shell to the deck creation subforum and start considering other tempo creatures and spells to give the deck some form of cohesion.
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Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Actually looks like it could dominate kitchen table magic. Modern though? Probably not.
I'd suggest a playset of Path to Exile maybe a couple Mana Leaks. Restoration Angel would be perfect for this deck. 4 mana get a 3/4 and flicker a creature with detain.
No. No form form of uw control is competitive right now. Honestly the only playablwe cards in that maindeck are lands and geist.
I don't think this deck would be good in standard. It is hilariously bad. If you asked me to look at it at fnm I would have to bite me tounge to keep from laughing. If you want to build a deck to make use of detain for kitchen table games. Through a few restore angel and cloudshofts in there. Maybe some paths to exile and more land.
What I like to do when I've got a deck idea is to scour through the Modern Deck Creation forum looking for things that are somewhat close, be it in cards or in general gameplan, and read through the entire thread looking for ideas. Sometimes I even go to the Casual forums looking for the same.
As far as competitive, it's fine for the kitchen table, and for some of my Modern decks, that's enough. I build lots of casual decks, all within the Modern card pool, so that if something ever gets printed that suddenly makes the archetype viable competitively, I'm already ahead of the game. Plus I think deck building is fun and play a lot of kitchen table games, but I'm not going to buy cards that aren't Modern legal.
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I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
I wanted to build a detain deck when RTR was in standard, but I felt that the mechanic is inherently flawed in that it does nothing against decks that don't have enough relevant detain targets.
I don't think this deck would be good in standard. It is hilariously bad. If you asked me to look at it at fnm I would have to bite me tounge to keep from laughing.
Wow. Did that make you feel like a tough guy? You can be competitively oriented and nice to new/casual players, you know.
I don't think this deck would be good in standard. It is hilariously bad. If you asked me to look at it at fnm I would have to bite me tounge to keep from laughing.
Wow. Did that make you feel like a tough guy? You can be competitively oriented and nice to new/casual players, you know.
I've been playing Magic for like 8 months, and if at the beginning I had gotten a comment like that from anyone, I'd be a lot less inclined to keep playing. Thankfully most of my locals are super nice and supportive and, you know, helpful. Christ.
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I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Tanro, are you honestly going to say that to a new player? How would you feel if someone said that about your deck when you started playing? If you can't post something without an insult, then don't post it at all. No one cares how good your pathetic "advice" is if all you're going to do is to insult them.
Maybe I don't feel it necessary to spoon feed people? Maybe I don't want to sugar coat it. No its not competitive. OP posts is this deck competitive, not its not going to be. It wouldn't even be good in standard which has a such a lower power level.
Its like posting a tier 3 modern deck with some legacy cards for extra power in legacy subforum and asking is it competitive.
The response would probably be something along the lines of "Nope your in blue, get force of wills so you don't loose to turn 0 flash-hulk dude"
I love the detain mechanic and how versatile it is. But I also like to beat down opponents fairly quickly. I created this little lovechild as a combination of both, and call the deck "Mass Incarceration" (a little dramatic, I know).
I want to get into competitive Modern play and this is my first attempt at a deck that isn't one of the dime-a-dozen decks that usually pop up (twin, storm, burn, token, etc etc) in tourneys that could also potentially be good enough to not get countered. Twin/storm/beater decks would probably be easier for me to deal with since detain mechanics do so well against combos and large creatures. Also, Detention Sphere effectively ruins token-based mechanics since all tokens would be exiled with it. Burn would be a little more difficult for me to play against but I would try to get out Aegis of the Gods and counter any attempts to take him out (this is where my sideboard would come in handy).
The main areas that I'm weakest at and would like suggestions with are 1) Mana ramp and 2) Draw mechanics. So far, my only source of mana ramp (as you can see) is the two Gilded Lotus and the only draw I have is Azorius Charm. Are there any auras that allow draw when creature deals damage to player? My average CMC is 2.88 so I'm not to worried about ramping but generally speaking I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Gilded Lotus is too expensive of a ramp card to play competitively.
This deck is currently not competitive.
1. Gilded Lotus does basically nothing in this deck since the most expensive card is 5 mana.
2. You probably need 24 lands.
3. Detain isn't a great mechanic.
4. You need better removal.
5. A lot of your creatures are subpar.
The real question is, how much are you willing to spend to get into Modern? Depending on the budget constraints, this could be developed into a relatively strong Azorius Midrange deck. It just needs some work.
Maybe I don't feel it necessary to spoon feed people? Maybe I don't want to sugar coat it. No its not competitive. OP posts is this deck competitive, not its not going to be. It wouldn't even be good in standard which has a such a lower power level.
Its like posting a tier 3 modern deck with some legacy cards for extra power in legacy subforum and asking is it competitive.
The response would probably be something along the lines of "Nope your in blue, get force of wills so you don't loose to turn 0 flash-hulk dude"
Flash-Hulk is banned in Legacy, but other than that you are probably right about what the reaction could be. However, with some work and giving up on the detain theme this could be a decent tier 3 deck.
Maybe I don't feel it necessary to spoon feed people? Maybe I don't want to sugar coat it. No its not competitive. OP posts is this deck competitive, not its not going to be. It wouldn't even be good in standard which has a such a lower power level.
Its like posting a tier 3 modern deck with some legacy cards for extra power in legacy subforum and asking is it competitive.
The response would probably be something along the lines of "Nope your in blue, get force of wills so you don't loose to turn 0 flash-hulk dude"
Or you can not be a jerk and actually post constructive criticism to the page like valanarch did. Sure its just a johnny brew, we all have/had one at one point within our magic careers. Personally OP, i would recommend cutting down on the 2 ofs to get some 4 ofs for the deck. With that many different style of cards, you will almost always be inconsistent with your gameplan. Also I agree with Valanarch about gilded lotus costing too much mana, you don't want to waste a turn getting it remanded or anything like that. If it is a bugetless version of the deck, might i recommend using some cantrips like serum visions and gitaxian probe to help you reach more of the center of the deck and use cards like path to exile to help as a removal spell other than detention sphere and prison term? Those are some of the basics of what you can do to improve the deck but I doubt it could be top tier. It could do well in an FNM depending on who you face, but i wouldn't be expecting too many wins with it.
You completely miss the point of the criticism, dude. Saying it isn't competitve is one thing, but you don't have to be a jerk about it. Just read the posts with the constructive critism if you really lack any clue about what would be good to say to someone in the OP's shoes.
Something tells me you're just an insecure douche if you would even feel the urge to laugh at someone like that. Sorry, didn't want to sugar coat it for you.
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"Until you have lived as a statue, do not talk to me of pigeons."
—Karn, silver golem
So I tested this setup today several times against what I guess I'd call moderately budget versions of "real" top decks. It did fairly well.
i would recommend cutting down on the 2 ofs to get some 4 ofs for the deck. With that many different style of cards, you will almost always be inconsistent with your gameplan
You called it. Going to restructure to have fewer creatures for a more consistent game.
gilded lotus costing too much mana
Gilded Lotus does basically nothing in this deck since the most expensive card is 5 mana
Yep. Didn't pull it out once. I'm going to drop those entirely.
You probably need 24 lands
Yes I do I feel dumb now for only including 20 originally.
based on a mechanic that is mostly a joke in modern
Could've been more tactful, but yeah I realized detain isn't a good enough mechanic to build around. I'm going to turn this into a U/W control deck now.
I've been playing Magic for like 8 months, and if at the beginning I had gotten a comment like that from anyone, I'd be a lot less inclined to keep playing. Thankfully most of my locals are super nice and supportive and, you know, helpful. Christ.
That's because locals don't have a keyboard barrier between the other human being they're denigrating
The short answer to your question is no, your deck is not competitive. Unlike the others though I'm not going to insult you for making it, instead let me try to answer WHY it's not competitive, and there are several.
Lets get the first one out of the way: It's a detain deck. This should be your first clue that the deck isn't competitive. Modern is a very high power level format and cards using set mechanics are printed at all sorts of different power levels. Some (most) are purely for limited, some see constructed, and a select few see eternal play. I can only think of two mechanics off hand that have a critical mass of cards to be a mechanic theme deck, infect and dredge, even Affinity no longer meets this bar because they stopped playing the affinity cards. This means that there are few if any cards using Detain as a mechanic that are at the power level needed to compete in Modern.
Next, lets talk about what is needed to be competitive in Modern. Goto the tier 1 forum and look at the decks, there are 5 or 6 of them. Just using that as a small metagame your deck should be able to have a coin flip match against all but one of those decks. If you look at them they have varied angles of attack. Twin will tap your artifact/creature/land down at the end of your turn and then combo (alternatively it plays counterburn). Infect will protect one guy and beat you under a flurry of pump spells, Burn uses efficient damage spells to put you on defense and end the game quickly, Jund/Abzan play a long game of attrition and win through lots of 2 for 1's, and Affinity assembles a collection of evasive guys and hits you with the ability to go either wide or tall. So lets talk about how your deck matches up against each.
First, you lose the counter war with Twin. If they Pestermite and you Render Silent they can Remand their Pestermite, fizzle your Render Silent, replace their used card and try again later. They get a 0-1 exchange out of this while having stripped your protection spell. You need more powerful countermagic in Modern. Mana Tithe (since you're in White), Spell Snare, Spell Pierce, Remand, and Cryptic Command is where you need to look. In general there's not a playable 3 mana counter in Modern. 3 is at an awkward spot where it costs a lot (3 is much greater than two), but nothing has appropriate power. The counters we have are from the era of two mana counterspells, they have yet to print something truly playable at 3. At 4 there's Cryptic Command which is so unbelievably powerful that people seriously play 4 mana for a counter in a format of 2 mana threats. At one you have Spell Snare and Spell Pierce, both of which are amazing (Snare is better). Other problems you have with twin: Your detain gameplan will never work, you have to play your guy on your turn. At the end of your turn they flash in their guy, untap, and combo. Grand Abolisher is not protection from this because he dies to Lightning Bolt, Electrolyze (another point I'll bring up later), Remand, and Spell Snare.
Next lets talk about Burn. Against Burn you need specific creatures. When you play against these decks the goal is to preserve your life total at all costs while building up. Sometimes this involves Goblin Guide helping you. Detain is actually decent here because you can stop attacks for a turn while you try to make another land drop and go bigger but detain only reduces the pressure. When you Detain a Guide you miss a shot at a land (especially with only 20... you need all the help you can get), Swiftspear prowess can be saved and turn your blockers into chumps, and your spell interaction costs 3x what theirs does so you fall behind on tempo (again, the problem with 3 mana counters). Your detain plan also requires investing resources turn after turn into stopping their guys from swinging. From the red mages point of view though this is perfectly acceptable. Their guys are supposed to enter, swing once, and then die. Anything more is a bonus and your best plan involves keeping them on the field. Your hate for red cards is 5 mana guys, you need to be looking more in the 2 mana range like Kor Firewalker or Dragon's Claw.
Infect is next. You might be able to do something here. They run few creatures so if you can keep it to one that is detained over and over they can't do much. The big problem you'll run into here is Inkmoth Nexus. It dodges all of your attempts to detain and it flies in the air. With an Apostles Blessing or other spell you can't block it, and then you die.
I won't go over all the matches, you can try to figure the others out yourself. But in general you need to be looking at higher power level cards and less in themes. Theme decks don't exist in Modern and everything runs the best cards. In white for example you need Path to Exiles as removal. In blue you need proper counters. And so on... to be honest straight UW control is hurting right now but it does have a game plan. You might want to start researching there and seeing why their cards work.
To close I'll give you some examples of why your cards don't work using your examples you wrote down.
twin/storm/beater decks would probably be easier for me to deal with since detain mechanics do so well against combos and large creatures.
Twin plays their creature after you have tried to detain since it has flash. The only interaction here is that you do nothing while they do it all. You would need Aether Vial to fix this. Your other spells don't really bother Storm at all because they can see them coming. This means a storm player can sculpt their hand not to kill you, but to wipe your board while they refill before your counter. Alterntatively you counter the Ascension and have effectively paid 1 mana more for Mana Leak. The largest creature around these days is Siege Rhino and if it comes down and then dies it has already generated all the value you needed. Detaining it is like letting your opponent off easy.
Also, Detention Sphere effectively ruins token-based mechanics since all tokens would be exiled with it. Burn would be a little more difficult for me to play against but I would try to get out Aegis of the Gods and counter any attempts to take him out (this is where my sideboard would come in handy).
Most token lists have ways to deal with this. Some will sacrifice tokens for value, but the ones who don't go that deep will just Slaughter Pact/Path their guy and use 1 mana to fizzle your Sphere's effect.
Aegis of the Gods does nothing against burn, he's a creature. Rather than being good against Burn he actually makes you weaker because he's a fantastic target for Searing Blood and Searing Blaze. Leyline of Sanctity is your answer here.
The main areas that I'm weakest at and would like suggestions with are 1) Mana ramp and 2) Draw mechanics. So far, my only source of mana ramp (as you can see) is the two Gilded Lotus and the only draw I have is Azorius Charm. Are there any auras that allow draw when creature deals damage to player? My average CMC is 2.88 so I'm not to worried about ramping but generally speaking I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Gilded Lotus is too expensive of a ramp card to play competitively.
Why are you trying to mana ramp? In a deck like this you should instead be trying to make land drops. Use card draw and high land counts to ensure hitting a land every turn for a consistent growth in mana. Lotus is very far away from what this deck wants. 2.88 is also a very high cost, for reference (including lands) you're at 1.8 by my count here's what others are:
Affinity - 0.85
Infect - 0.683
Burn - 0.95
Twin - 1.4
Abzan - 1.233
Jund - 1.183
At 1.8 you are more than 50% higher mana than the slow decks, yet you're only running 20 lands. Against the fast decks, starting from turn 2 Burn is playing two cards to every one you play. You need a way to beat that by speeding yourself up.
@Azadan Thanks for all the help - I really appreciate it. I think because I started playing magic in the EDH format maybe I was brought into some bad habits that don't work in other formats like modern and standard. I got some researching to do
Please don't sugar coat it. I grew up in a generation that didn't sugar coat things just to keep people from having hurt feelings.
As for constructive criticism. I did make a suggestion with flicker type effects. That would be the best way to get value from detain. Still highly doubt this would be competitive even in FNM level events because you always get at least 1-2 players with aspirations of getting on the pro tour bringing tier 1 decks to 5$ or Free events. Or you get a random grinder getting ready for a premier event.
Futher Advice I can leave here, would be to include more 4 ofs and less 2 ofs. If the card is very good, and you expect to use it every game, use 4 unless drawing multiples would be bad. Then it is safe to 3x. If you need it sometimes, but don't need it every game 1-2x is fine, especially when drawing multiples are bad. (Planeswalkers, legendaries).
Example would be a stock burn List runs 2x lightning helix, but 4x Lightning Bolt. You wan't to see bolt everytime, as many times as possible. You only want lightning helix when your slightly behind on life.
Aegis will hedge certain matchups (Burn, Storm, anything playing Hand Disruption) but it has little impact against decks that don't interact with the opponent outside of the combat step.
I would also recommend Replacing Render Silent with 2 cmc Counters such as Remand.
Please don't sugar coat it. I grew up in a generation that didn't sugar coat things just to keep people from having hurt feelings.
As for constructive criticism. I did make a suggestion with flicker type effects. That would be the best way to get value from detain. Still highly doubt this would be competitive even in FNM level events because you always get at least 1-2 players with aspirations of getting on the pro tour bringing tier 1 decks to 5$ or Free events. Or you get a random grinder getting ready for a premier event.
Let me guess, you also grew up in a generation where you walked uphill to school in the snow both ways without shoes?
I know it must seem amazing that this generation has something called "empathy". The concept that you should tell someone "Your deck could use some definite improvements if you want to be competitive" instead of "your deck is bad and you should feel bad". Because I sure as hell wouldn't have wanted to keep playing if people were rude to me when I made my first jank deck (Modern Phytohydra/Pariah's Shield).
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"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
You and Amalek0 apparently also grew up in a generation that doesn't know how to talk to people. I would think before you post about how you may come across, and also who you may be talking to.
@OP, I also started playing again by jumping into commander, and then getting more interested in modern. In general, I think its important to consider the difference between 'strategy' and 'theme' when you are picking cards. How do I want to win? Every strategy can be made to be at least its 'most competitive' even when its not a very strong one--but the second you devolve to card choice based on theme, in a competitive format--you've already lost.
I also took a long time to come around to the fact that there really isn't a lot of room for much overly 'fun stuff', cut the pet cards if you want to do well. This of course depends on what your modern format meta looks like, if its all decks like what you posted, you may be totally fine. If its all top tier super spikey decks of a wide variety, mmmm.
People keep saying how "No one in real life every says to anyone else because they're just keyboard warriors," but I vehemently disagree with that. It might be personal experience talking, but I actively know a lot of people like that in real life to the point that I consider it fairly normal behavior.
I mean, if I was learning chess from someone else and I came up with a bad and awful strategy for it, the local recourse would be to reprimand me for wasting the teacher's valuable time that could have been more efficiently used elsewhere. And wasting people's time is one of the worst things you can do for someone who is trying to help you. I don't know about you guys, but I actively expect that kind of negative response and consider it pretty normal.
Hell, I remember I was a kid in school teacher's would get pretty nasty when it comes to timewasters. But the point was to discourage that kind of thing, so future time is not wasted.
This is why I'm generally so adamantly anti-brewing, because 95% of the time it becomes a waste of time and that's one of the worst things you can do to other people, with a very minor chance that it turns out to be of valuable use to everyone else.
Its not at all limited to the internet, unlike what some people here seem to think.
I know it must seem amazing that this generation has something called "empathy". The concept that you should tell someone "Your deck could use some definite improvements if you want to be competitive" instead of "your deck is bad and you should feel bad". Because I sure as hell wouldn't have wanted to keep playing if people were rude to me when I made my first jank deck (Modern Phytohydra/Pariah's Shield).
Is that the reason why children (and young adults included, though there might as well be no difference between them and a child) nowadays are ill behaved, nasty, and all around unpleasant to be around? Because I'm not so sure that's a positive thing.
You and Amalek0 apparently also grew up in a generation that doesn't know how to talk to people. I would think before you post about how you may come across, and also who you may be talking to.
@OP, I also started playing again by jumping into commander, and then getting more interested in modern. In general, I think its important to consider the difference between 'strategy' and 'theme' when you are picking cards. How do I want to win? Every strategy can be made to be at least its 'most competitive' even when its not a very strong one--but the second you devolve to card choice based on theme, in a competitive format--you've already lost.
I also took a long time to come around to the fact that there really isn't a lot of room for much overly 'fun stuff', cut the pet cards if you want to do well. This of course depends on what your modern format meta looks like, if its all decks like what you posted, you may be totally fine. If its all top tier super spikey decks of a wide variety, mmmm.
pretty much this. I mean I win and lose games confidently with a bunch of 1/1 flyers but my deck isnt competitive by popular opinion. Id say if you wanted to play something that wasn't the same as every other deck being played basically because they are good, you could check out lesser known decks, but brewing is a challenge that you have to work at with a little card-evaluation knowledge.
Looking at it, there are a few different angles of strategy in this list loosely held together by the detain mechanic (Lyev skyknight is the best one because of its evasive 3/1 body and it would see more play if it had flash). And so far it feels all over the place. I would ask that you take a look at other aggro and midrange decks in your colors from the deck creation section and see what you can learn there, because this looks like it WANTS to be UW aggro, but the artifacts are out of place
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
You apparently came up in the generation where you never lost, you always got a participation trophy, told you were doing a good job when you weren't, they didn't keep score in sports, and everyone got a gold star sticker on school papers.
The real world don't work like that, and I don't knw the person so I don't have any real reason to blunt my thoughts on the deck. If I knew them in person maybe.
Example.
Say if this person was my friend Lilly, she Plays magic because she likes the theme of it, she likes the art work, and she likes the colors Blue and Black. She only plays Blue/Black. She likes counterspells and discards. She also loves mill. She does alters. She is not into ultra competitive rank 1 magic. She plays to enjoy the art, and theme, and she plays her own way, not caring about being competitive. So she hands me her Dimir mill deck and asks for advice. I tell her what cards are weak and what cards could improve her deck.
Asking if a deck is competitive online you should expect "Nope blunt answer responses"
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Standard
BEEEES!
Rabble Red
Modern
Burn
Infect
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2x Aegis of the Gods
2x Azorius Arrester
2x Geist of Saint Traft
2x Grand Abolisher
2x Lavinia of the Tenth
2x Lyev Skyknight
2x Silverblade Paladin
2x Stonehorn Dignitary
Enchantments:
4x Detention Sphere
2x Ethereal Armor
4x Prison Term
2x Spectral Flight
3x Azorius Charm
4x Render Silent
Artifacts:
2x Gilded Lotus
2x Glaring Spotlight
Land:
4x Glacial Fortress
3x Halimar Depths
1x Island
12x Plains
4x Faith's Shield
4x Redirect
I love the detain mechanic and how versatile it is. But I also like to beat down opponents fairly quickly. I created this little lovechild as a combination of both, and call the deck "Mass Incarceration" (a little dramatic, I know).
I want to get into competitive Modern play and this is my first attempt at a deck that isn't one of the dime-a-dozen decks that usually pop up (twin, storm, burn, token, etc etc) in tourneys that could also potentially be good enough to not get countered. Twin/storm/beater decks would probably be easier for me to deal with since detain mechanics do so well against combos and large creatures. Also, Detention Sphere effectively ruins token-based mechanics since all tokens would be exiled with it. Burn would be a little more difficult for me to play against but I would try to get out Aegis of the Gods and counter any attempts to take him out (this is where my sideboard would come in handy).
The main areas that I'm weakest at and would like suggestions with are 1) Mana ramp and 2) Draw mechanics. So far, my only source of mana ramp (as you can see) is the two Gilded Lotus and the only draw I have is Azorius Charm. Are there any auras that allow draw when creature deals damage to player? My average CMC is 2.88 so I'm not to worried about ramping but generally speaking I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Gilded Lotus is too expensive of a ramp card to play competitively.
Your deck is not competitive, and it is in fact so far from competitive it's laughable. I suggest you take your idea for a UW "detain" shell to the deck creation subforum and start considering other tempo creatures and spells to give the deck some form of cohesion.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
I'd suggest a playset of Path to Exile maybe a couple Mana Leaks.
Restoration Angel would be perfect for this deck. 4 mana get a 3/4 and flicker a creature with detain.
UR Niv-Mizzet, The Firemind
WUR Narset's Coinflip Casino
Modern
UB Mill
I don't think this deck would be good in standard. It is hilariously bad. If you asked me to look at it at fnm I would have to bite me tounge to keep from laughing. If you want to build a deck to make use of detain for kitchen table games. Through a few restore angel and cloudshofts in there. Maybe some paths to exile and more land.
BEEEES!
Rabble Red
Modern
Burn
Infect
Edit: Ghostly Prison would be superb in this deck in maybe a 2 of.
Also 4 Hallowed Fountains and 4 Flooded Strands would be a nice deck thinner. Maybe cut the halimar depths.
UR Niv-Mizzet, The Firemind
WUR Narset's Coinflip Casino
Modern
UB Mill
As far as competitive, it's fine for the kitchen table, and for some of my Modern decks, that's enough. I build lots of casual decks, all within the Modern card pool, so that if something ever gets printed that suddenly makes the archetype viable competitively, I'm already ahead of the game. Plus I think deck building is fun and play a lot of kitchen table games, but I'm not going to buy cards that aren't Modern legal.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Wow. Did that make you feel like a tough guy? You can be competitively oriented and nice to new/casual players, you know.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
I've been playing Magic for like 8 months, and if at the beginning I had gotten a comment like that from anyone, I'd be a lot less inclined to keep playing. Thankfully most of my locals are super nice and supportive and, you know, helpful. Christ.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Its like posting a tier 3 modern deck with some legacy cards for extra power in legacy subforum and asking is it competitive.
The response would probably be something along the lines of "Nope your in blue, get force of wills so you don't loose to turn 0 flash-hulk dude"
BEEEES!
Rabble Red
Modern
Burn
Infect
This deck is currently not competitive.
1. Gilded Lotus does basically nothing in this deck since the most expensive card is 5 mana.
2. You probably need 24 lands.
3. Detain isn't a great mechanic.
4. You need better removal.
5. A lot of your creatures are subpar.
The real question is, how much are you willing to spend to get into Modern? Depending on the budget constraints, this could be developed into a relatively strong Azorius Midrange deck. It just needs some work.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Flash-Hulk is banned in Legacy, but other than that you are probably right about what the reaction could be. However, with some work and giving up on the detain theme this could be a decent tier 3 deck.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Or you can not be a jerk and actually post constructive criticism to the page like valanarch did. Sure its just a johnny brew, we all have/had one at one point within our magic careers. Personally OP, i would recommend cutting down on the 2 ofs to get some 4 ofs for the deck. With that many different style of cards, you will almost always be inconsistent with your gameplan. Also I agree with Valanarch about gilded lotus costing too much mana, you don't want to waste a turn getting it remanded or anything like that. If it is a bugetless version of the deck, might i recommend using some cantrips like serum visions and gitaxian probe to help you reach more of the center of the deck and use cards like path to exile to help as a removal spell other than detention sphere and prison term? Those are some of the basics of what you can do to improve the deck but I doubt it could be top tier. It could do well in an FNM depending on who you face, but i wouldn't be expecting too many wins with it.
On my tombstone, please write "Now his body fuels the Treasure Cruise"
Or you could Kommand him back...
Check out my Youtube Page for online Magic Content!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcq-a5rTSNclFCS2o4_lVFw
Modern:
BURGrixis DelverRUB
URUR DelverRU
URBlue MoonRU
RIPURUR TwinRURIP
Legacy:
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RUBGrixis PyromancerRUB
Commander:
URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
URBJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeRUB
4 Lyev Skyknight
4 Restoration Angel
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Path to Exile
4 Remand
2 Cryptic Command
4 Condescend
2 Jace, Architect of Thought
3 Mana Leak
3 Hallowed Fountain
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Flooded Strand
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Island
2 Plains
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Something tells me you're just an insecure douche if you would even feel the urge to laugh at someone like that. Sorry, didn't want to sugar coat it for you.
—Karn, silver golem
You called it. Going to restructure to have fewer creatures for a more consistent game.
Yep. Didn't pull it out once. I'm going to drop those entirely.
Yes I do I feel dumb now for only including 20 originally.
Could've been more tactful, but yeah I realized detain isn't a good enough mechanic to build around. I'm going to turn this into a U/W control deck now.
That's because locals don't have a keyboard barrier between the other human being they're denigrating
Lets get the first one out of the way: It's a detain deck. This should be your first clue that the deck isn't competitive. Modern is a very high power level format and cards using set mechanics are printed at all sorts of different power levels. Some (most) are purely for limited, some see constructed, and a select few see eternal play. I can only think of two mechanics off hand that have a critical mass of cards to be a mechanic theme deck, infect and dredge, even Affinity no longer meets this bar because they stopped playing the affinity cards. This means that there are few if any cards using Detain as a mechanic that are at the power level needed to compete in Modern.
Next, lets talk about what is needed to be competitive in Modern. Goto the tier 1 forum and look at the decks, there are 5 or 6 of them. Just using that as a small metagame your deck should be able to have a coin flip match against all but one of those decks. If you look at them they have varied angles of attack. Twin will tap your artifact/creature/land down at the end of your turn and then combo (alternatively it plays counterburn). Infect will protect one guy and beat you under a flurry of pump spells, Burn uses efficient damage spells to put you on defense and end the game quickly, Jund/Abzan play a long game of attrition and win through lots of 2 for 1's, and Affinity assembles a collection of evasive guys and hits you with the ability to go either wide or tall. So lets talk about how your deck matches up against each.
First, you lose the counter war with Twin. If they Pestermite and you Render Silent they can Remand their Pestermite, fizzle your Render Silent, replace their used card and try again later. They get a 0-1 exchange out of this while having stripped your protection spell. You need more powerful countermagic in Modern. Mana Tithe (since you're in White), Spell Snare, Spell Pierce, Remand, and Cryptic Command is where you need to look. In general there's not a playable 3 mana counter in Modern. 3 is at an awkward spot where it costs a lot (3 is much greater than two), but nothing has appropriate power. The counters we have are from the era of two mana counterspells, they have yet to print something truly playable at 3. At 4 there's Cryptic Command which is so unbelievably powerful that people seriously play 4 mana for a counter in a format of 2 mana threats. At one you have Spell Snare and Spell Pierce, both of which are amazing (Snare is better). Other problems you have with twin: Your detain gameplan will never work, you have to play your guy on your turn. At the end of your turn they flash in their guy, untap, and combo. Grand Abolisher is not protection from this because he dies to Lightning Bolt, Electrolyze (another point I'll bring up later), Remand, and Spell Snare.
Next lets talk about Burn. Against Burn you need specific creatures. When you play against these decks the goal is to preserve your life total at all costs while building up. Sometimes this involves Goblin Guide helping you. Detain is actually decent here because you can stop attacks for a turn while you try to make another land drop and go bigger but detain only reduces the pressure. When you Detain a Guide you miss a shot at a land (especially with only 20... you need all the help you can get), Swiftspear prowess can be saved and turn your blockers into chumps, and your spell interaction costs 3x what theirs does so you fall behind on tempo (again, the problem with 3 mana counters). Your detain plan also requires investing resources turn after turn into stopping their guys from swinging. From the red mages point of view though this is perfectly acceptable. Their guys are supposed to enter, swing once, and then die. Anything more is a bonus and your best plan involves keeping them on the field. Your hate for red cards is 5 mana guys, you need to be looking more in the 2 mana range like Kor Firewalker or Dragon's Claw.
Infect is next. You might be able to do something here. They run few creatures so if you can keep it to one that is detained over and over they can't do much. The big problem you'll run into here is Inkmoth Nexus. It dodges all of your attempts to detain and it flies in the air. With an Apostles Blessing or other spell you can't block it, and then you die.
I won't go over all the matches, you can try to figure the others out yourself. But in general you need to be looking at higher power level cards and less in themes. Theme decks don't exist in Modern and everything runs the best cards. In white for example you need Path to Exiles as removal. In blue you need proper counters. And so on... to be honest straight UW control is hurting right now but it does have a game plan. You might want to start researching there and seeing why their cards work.
To close I'll give you some examples of why your cards don't work using your examples you wrote down.
Twin plays their creature after you have tried to detain since it has flash. The only interaction here is that you do nothing while they do it all. You would need Aether Vial to fix this. Your other spells don't really bother Storm at all because they can see them coming. This means a storm player can sculpt their hand not to kill you, but to wipe your board while they refill before your counter. Alterntatively you counter the Ascension and have effectively paid 1 mana more for Mana Leak. The largest creature around these days is Siege Rhino and if it comes down and then dies it has already generated all the value you needed. Detaining it is like letting your opponent off easy.
Most token lists have ways to deal with this. Some will sacrifice tokens for value, but the ones who don't go that deep will just Slaughter Pact/Path their guy and use 1 mana to fizzle your Sphere's effect.
Aegis of the Gods does nothing against burn, he's a creature. Rather than being good against Burn he actually makes you weaker because he's a fantastic target for Searing Blood and Searing Blaze. Leyline of Sanctity is your answer here.
Why are you trying to mana ramp? In a deck like this you should instead be trying to make land drops. Use card draw and high land counts to ensure hitting a land every turn for a consistent growth in mana. Lotus is very far away from what this deck wants. 2.88 is also a very high cost, for reference (including lands) you're at 1.8 by my count here's what others are:
Affinity - 0.85
Infect - 0.683
Burn - 0.95
Twin - 1.4
Abzan - 1.233
Jund - 1.183
At 1.8 you are more than 50% higher mana than the slow decks, yet you're only running 20 lands. Against the fast decks, starting from turn 2 Burn is playing two cards to every one you play. You need a way to beat that by speeding yourself up.
As for constructive criticism. I did make a suggestion with flicker type effects. That would be the best way to get value from detain. Still highly doubt this would be competitive even in FNM level events because you always get at least 1-2 players with aspirations of getting on the pro tour bringing tier 1 decks to 5$ or Free events. Or you get a random grinder getting ready for a premier event.
Futher Advice I can leave here, would be to include more 4 ofs and less 2 ofs. If the card is very good, and you expect to use it every game, use 4 unless drawing multiples would be bad. Then it is safe to 3x. If you need it sometimes, but don't need it every game 1-2x is fine, especially when drawing multiples are bad. (Planeswalkers, legendaries).
Example would be a stock burn List runs 2x lightning helix, but 4x Lightning Bolt. You wan't to see bolt everytime, as many times as possible. You only want lightning helix when your slightly behind on life.
In this case, I would suggest 4x Lyev Skyknight, and drop Stonehorn Dignitary
I would also suggest moving Aegis of the Gods to the sideboard, and Including 4x Azorius Arrester
Aegis will hedge certain matchups (Burn, Storm, anything playing Hand Disruption) but it has little impact against decks that don't interact with the opponent outside of the combat step.
I would also recommend Replacing Render Silent with 2 cmc Counters such as Remand.
BEEEES!
Rabble Red
Modern
Burn
Infect
Let me guess, you also grew up in a generation where you walked uphill to school in the snow both ways without shoes?
I know it must seem amazing that this generation has something called "empathy". The concept that you should tell someone "Your deck could use some definite improvements if you want to be competitive" instead of "your deck is bad and you should feel bad". Because I sure as hell wouldn't have wanted to keep playing if people were rude to me when I made my first jank deck (Modern Phytohydra/Pariah's Shield).
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
But Yeah I did walk to school, it was uphill one way, but we don't often get snow in Alabama.
BEEEES!
Rabble Red
Modern
Burn
Infect
@OP, I also started playing again by jumping into commander, and then getting more interested in modern. In general, I think its important to consider the difference between 'strategy' and 'theme' when you are picking cards. How do I want to win? Every strategy can be made to be at least its 'most competitive' even when its not a very strong one--but the second you devolve to card choice based on theme, in a competitive format--you've already lost.
I also took a long time to come around to the fact that there really isn't a lot of room for much overly 'fun stuff', cut the pet cards if you want to do well. This of course depends on what your modern format meta looks like, if its all decks like what you posted, you may be totally fine. If its all top tier super spikey decks of a wide variety, mmmm.
I mean, if I was learning chess from someone else and I came up with a bad and awful strategy for it, the local recourse would be to reprimand me for wasting the teacher's valuable time that could have been more efficiently used elsewhere. And wasting people's time is one of the worst things you can do for someone who is trying to help you. I don't know about you guys, but I actively expect that kind of negative response and consider it pretty normal.
Hell, I remember I was a kid in school teacher's would get pretty nasty when it comes to timewasters. But the point was to discourage that kind of thing, so future time is not wasted.
This is why I'm generally so adamantly anti-brewing, because 95% of the time it becomes a waste of time and that's one of the worst things you can do to other people, with a very minor chance that it turns out to be of valuable use to everyone else.
Its not at all limited to the internet, unlike what some people here seem to think.
Is that the reason why children (and young adults included, though there might as well be no difference between them and a child) nowadays are ill behaved, nasty, and all around unpleasant to be around? Because I'm not so sure that's a positive thing.
pretty much this. I mean I win and lose games confidently with a bunch of 1/1 flyers but my deck isnt competitive by popular opinion. Id say if you wanted to play something that wasn't the same as every other deck being played basically because they are good, you could check out lesser known decks, but brewing is a challenge that you have to work at with a little card-evaluation knowledge.
Looking at it, there are a few different angles of strategy in this list loosely held together by the detain mechanic (Lyev skyknight is the best one because of its evasive 3/1 body and it would see more play if it had flash). And so far it feels all over the place. I would ask that you take a look at other aggro and midrange decks in your colors from the deck creation section and see what you can learn there, because this looks like it WANTS to be UW aggro, but the artifacts are out of place
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
The real world don't work like that, and I don't knw the person so I don't have any real reason to blunt my thoughts on the deck. If I knew them in person maybe.
Example.
Say if this person was my friend Lilly, she Plays magic because she likes the theme of it, she likes the art work, and she likes the colors Blue and Black. She only plays Blue/Black. She likes counterspells and discards. She also loves mill. She does alters. She is not into ultra competitive rank 1 magic. She plays to enjoy the art, and theme, and she plays her own way, not caring about being competitive. So she hands me her Dimir mill deck and asks for advice. I tell her what cards are weak and what cards could improve her deck.
Asking if a deck is competitive online you should expect "Nope blunt answer responses"
BEEEES!
Rabble Red
Modern
Burn
Infect