I assume everyone here is still asleep because there is no blasted way you won't be playing Nightveil Predator in the deck.
Come on, fess up. Who wrote to R&D asking for help for soulflayer?
I won't be playing it. It's just worse than Carnage Tyrant. One of the main reasons Trample is so important is because you want to be able to kill quick through Lingering Souls or any other flying chump blockers, so the flying on Predator is mostly irrelevant.
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LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
I assume everyone here is still asleep because there is no blasted way you won't be playing Nightveil Predator in the deck.
Come on, fess up. Who wrote to R&D asking for help for soulflayer?
I won't be playing it. It's just worse than Carnage Tyrant. One of the main reasons Trample is so important is because you want to be able to kill quick through Lingering Souls or any other flying chump blockers, so the flying on Predator is mostly irrelevant.
i thought it was the combination of flying and hexproof on a card that made it attractive.
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BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
We have lots of Flyrs already, I'd rather have Hexproof and Trample. Perhaps it can see play as a 1-of, but i doubt it. I'll have to look at the numbers. Also, Tyrant can be cast lategame unlike this one. This card might be good in the Grixis Soulflayer deck though.
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LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Combination of flying and hexproof is nothing new, and I can't imagine deathtouch being relevant unless were facing insanely huge Death's Shadow with double strike all the time.. I don't want to jinx it but I am expecting more people to play Death's Shadow due to Mausoleum Secrets so it might be relevant in that case.
Although it cmc 4 the double blue mana makes it difficult to play in any non-blue build, similar to Sigarda, Host of Herons. It not worth replacing Sylvan Caryatid in jund build for sure, it just going to be another non-castable spell spell which we don't really want. Although it has to compete with Striped Riverwinder it seems like a great card in Grisix, Esper, and Sultai build.
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I really don't know why you're still playing Caryatid over Tyrant Yuseimax. I hardly ever cast Caryatid.
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LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Do you cast Carnage Tyrant every single game?
Facing this deck manabase who have between 17 and 19 lands IMHO is very difficult to cast CMC 6 cards.
And the point about playing Caryatid is this low CMC, you can use it against aggro decks to chump block something as a tempo play, fix mana against Blood Moon and give Hexproof keyword.
I found that I rarely want/need to cast it and if I'm playing around Blood Moon I usually fetch a basic Swamp anyways and hold up mana to kill it when they cast it.
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LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
I still like Sagu Mauler over Carnage Tyrant. You're not likely hardcasting either, but in a pinch Sagu Mauler can be a cheap chump, or at least can theoreticallly be a live beater for you at 5 lands.
I like having Sylvan Caryatid, I believe it essential card for fighting graveyard hate, Blood Moon, and Liliana of the Veil. If I had Sylvan in the field I can save my Abrupt decay for other troublesome card like Ensnaring Bridge, Rest in Peace, Scavenging Ooze and etc. I can do all that with single Sylvan in the field compared to Carnage Tyrant which doesn't do anything until turn 6, it not even guaranteed that we'll hit 6 land on turn 6. Giving trample to Soulflayer is the only up side of Tyrant in my opinion and that only useful when the only card in graveyard is Tyrant and Samut, Voice of Dissent/Hazoret the Fervent/Bomat Courier in the graveyard. I simply prefer the utility Sylvan can offer.
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In this deck I hardly see the benefit of castability, when for us it wouldn’t really help our plan at all to have this on field. It’s not like we run Become Immense or any sort of surprises that would make a tiny double striker relevant.
I don’t think it’s ahead of Samut nor Zetalpa as far as keywords go. Heck I’d probably play Oketra sooner than this.
Hey guys, newbie here, i just wanted y'all to know i have been a huge fan of this deck, that it made me sign up here. Well the deck has been featured in tcgplayer (hope its fine to leave a link here) https://youtu.be/S8qM1IKexBI
With yusei sensei deck list
I’m using 17 + 4 Sylvan Caryatid and 4 Chancellor of the Tangle and feels very good for me even without the Chancellors because I’m always flooded.
But 18 lands is pretty reasonable specially if you want hardcast creatures with CMC 5 or higher.
@yuseimax Today I’m started to test a new one build with Chancellor, Gishath and probably I will cut Fanatical Firebrand for another creature with Haste instance and some other keyword(maybe bringing 1 Flamewake Phoenix to MD). Something like list below. Tell me what you thinking about
Lands(17)
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Blood Crypt
2 Ovegrown Tomb
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Stomping Ground
Spells(17)
4 Faithless Looting
4 Grisly Salvage
3 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Collective Brutality
1 Grapple with the Past
1 Tormenting Voice
1 Cathartic Reunion
1 Gather for the Pack
Creatures(26)
4 Soulflayer
4 Chancellor of the Tangle
4 Samut, Voice of Dissent
4 Chromanticore
4 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Hazoret, The Fervent
2 Gishath, Sun’s Avatar
2 XX (Gishath, Zetalpa, Archwing Dragon, Rhonas, Flamewake Phoenix, Hazoret, Carnage Tyrant, Akroma Angel of Wrath, Drogskol Reaver)
I’m thinking is more important has Hexproof, Haste and Double Strike instead Indestructible and I always prefer castable creatures to play post sideboard against grave hate. Maybe with Assassin’s Trophy coming open some spaces in SB to put some different creatures to focus the keywords depending the match. I don’t like to use discards and prefer to keep slots to removals and some helpful creatures like Faerie Macabre, Lightning Axe, Firespout and Maybe now more Collective Brutality and some Kolaghan’s Command.
I think you should play at least 2 Zetalpa, Primal Dawn to fill some double strike and indestructible slot. Although you don't like indestructible, it will come in handy in many match ups you'll see on competitive league such as UW Control, G Tron and BGx match ups. But if I were to choose from the options you provided I would play Drogskol Reaver.
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@yuseimax I’m agree with you about playing many 1 of’s utility spells, but sometimes I don’t have enough cards to discard in a Cathartic Reunion for example so I thinking about to play just gather the pack and grapple with past. Tormenting Voice and Cathartic Reunion are so good in g2 and g3 when you need to find answers(read removals here).
About creatures I will try Zetalpa again and gather some TIX to buy Drogskol Reaver or even test Spike Trooper(Lifelink combined with Haste seems so good against Burn).
Other card I liked to much in this deck is Archwing Dragon. Very good topdeck in grindy games and dodges Liliana’s habilities.
@Tobias Kullberg Nowadays I’m using Firespout instead because I could choose what kind of creatures I will kill. Against BW Tokens is very useful even if opponent cast Anthems and Vs Aggro Decks in general kills all board.
About Savage Summoning I always use like 2 or 3 due in MTGO meta I always found some controls in Leagues.
Why not Thrun over Tyrant? Trample is so relevant to keep a card cmc 6? Thrun is eaier to be cast. Im using 2 Thrun and 2 Tyrant because Thrun is legendary. Caryatid is out!
Why not Thrun over Tyrant? Trample is so relevant to keep a card cmc 6? Thrun is eaier to be cast. Im using 2 Thrun and 2 Tyrant because Thrun is legendary. Caryatid is out!
For me Carnage Tyrant in this deck is not necessary like Thrun(because against controls I prefer to board in Savage Summoning, discards and possible removals to RIP Leyline and Relic). But Sylvan Caryatid is very important to give Hexproof and fix your mana base mainly vs Blood Moon.
The final GRN spoiler load dropped today, and Torch Courier caught my eye for this deck.
It`s another R-cost 1/1 with Haste and a self-sacrificing ability (think Fanatical Firebrand) - but unlike Firebrand whose sac ability pings something for 1, this card's sac ability gives a creature haste until EOT. The sac doesn't require tapping either, for what tiny little relevance that has.
Any potential for the decks running Firebrand to swap to this? If we wind up making a big Soulflayer without haste - or even if we wind up hardcasting one of our big nonhaste creatures (Chromanticore?) we can cash it in to give the new arrival haste. And if course it has the usual utility of being self-saccable to add a haste creature to the graveyard to make your next soulflayer hasty. A slight bit of extra spice? Cast Torch Courier on 1 and attack. On 2 attack again, cast Sylvan Caryatid, then sac Torch Courier to give Caryatid haste so you can use its mana for something right now, meanwhile populating your grave with a haste creature.
The final GRN spoiler load dropped today, and Torch Courier caught my eye for this deck.
It`s another R-cost 1/1 with Haste and a self-sacrificing ability (think Fanatical Firebrand) - but unlike Firebrand whose sac ability pings something for 1, this card's sac ability gives a creature haste until EOT. The sac doesn't require tapping either, for what tiny little relevance that has.
Any potential for the decks running Firebrand to swap to this? If we wind up making a big Soulflayer without haste - or even if we wind up hardcasting one of our big nonhaste creatures (Chromanticore?) we can cash it in to give the new arrival haste. And if course it has the usual utility of being self-saccable to add a haste creature to the graveyard to make your next soulflayer hasty. A slight bit of extra spice? Cast Torch Courier on 1 and attack. On 2 attack again, cast Sylvan Caryatid, then sac Torch Courier to give Caryatid haste so you can use its mana for something right now, meanwhile populating your grave with a haste creature.
I think is very interesting, but the main reason to Fanatical Firebrand have any spot in this deck despite have Haste keyword is the it can handle with x/1 creatures like Thalia, Snapcaster Mage, Dark Confidant, Mana Dorks, Bloodghast, Gravecrawler. This is very important tempo play in some matches which is the difference between win or loss.
I guess the Torch Runner will be good against control decks attacking while you set your board or graveyard and save some clock in the match.
Needs several playtest.
The final GRN spoiler load dropped today, and Torch Courier caught my eye for this deck.
It`s another R-cost 1/1 with Haste and a self-sacrificing ability (think Fanatical Firebrand) - but unlike Firebrand whose sac ability pings something for 1, this card's sac ability gives a creature haste until EOT. The sac doesn't require tapping either, for what tiny little relevance that has.
Any potential for the decks running Firebrand to swap to this? If we wind up making a big Soulflayer without haste - or even if we wind up hardcasting one of our big nonhaste creatures (Chromanticore?) we can cash it in to give the new arrival haste. And if course it has the usual utility of being self-saccable to add a haste creature to the graveyard to make your next soulflayer hasty. A slight bit of extra spice? Cast Torch Courier on 1 and attack. On 2 attack again, cast Sylvan Caryatid, then sac Torch Courier to give Caryatid haste so you can use its mana for something right now, meanwhile populating your grave with a haste creature.
I think is very interesting, but the main reason to Fanatical Firebrand have any spot in this deck despite have Haste keyword is the it can handle with x/1 creatures like Thalia, Snapcaster Mage, Dark Confidant, Mana Dorks, Bloodghast, Gravecrawler. This is very important tempo play in some matches which is the difference between win or loss.
I guess the Torch Runner will be good against control decks attacking while you set your board or graveyard and save some clock in the match.
Needs several playtest.
The final GRN spoiler load dropped today, and Torch Courier caught my eye for this deck.
It`s another R-cost 1/1 with Haste and a self-sacrificing ability (think Fanatical Firebrand) - but unlike Firebrand whose sac ability pings something for 1, this card's sac ability gives a creature haste until EOT. The sac doesn't require tapping either, for what tiny little relevance that has.
Any potential for the decks running Firebrand to swap to this? If we wind up making a big Soulflayer without haste - or even if we wind up hardcasting one of our big nonhaste creatures (Chromanticore?) we can cash it in to give the new arrival haste. And if course it has the usual utility of being self-saccable to add a haste creature to the graveyard to make your next soulflayer hasty. A slight bit of extra spice? Cast Torch Courier on 1 and attack. On 2 attack again, cast Sylvan Caryatid, then sac Torch Courier to give Caryatid haste so you can use its mana for something right now, meanwhile populating your grave with a haste creature.
I think is very interesting, but the main reason to Fanatical Firebrand have any spot in this deck despite have Haste keyword is the it can handle with x/1 creatures like Thalia, Snapcaster Mage, Dark Confidant, Mana Dorks, Bloodghast, Gravecrawler. This is very important tempo play in some matches which is the difference between win or loss.
I guess the Torch Runner will be good against control decks attacking while you set your board or graveyard and save some clock in the match.
Needs several playtest.
I like to much Bomat, but not in the current metagame because its easily to be blocked and its hability can trash some good cards.
Due using 4 Chromanticore I don’t have any problems with reach delirium.
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I won't be playing it. It's just worse than Carnage Tyrant. One of the main reasons Trample is so important is because you want to be able to kill quick through Lingering Souls or any other flying chump blockers, so the flying on Predator is mostly irrelevant.
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
i thought it was the combination of flying and hexproof on a card that made it attractive.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Although it cmc 4 the double blue mana makes it difficult to play in any non-blue build, similar to Sigarda, Host of Herons. It not worth replacing Sylvan Caryatid in jund build for sure, it just going to be another non-castable spell spell which we don't really want. Although it has to compete with Striped Riverwinder it seems like a great card in Grisix, Esper, and Sultai build.
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Facing this deck manabase who have between 17 and 19 lands IMHO is very difficult to cast CMC 6 cards.
And the point about playing Caryatid is this low CMC, you can use it against aggro decks to chump block something as a tempo play, fix mana against Blood Moon and give Hexproof keyword.
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
I know Vigilance isn’t the best keyword but is potential castability coupled with 3 keywords is enough to pique interest?
I don’t think it’s ahead of Samut nor Zetalpa as far as keywords go. Heck I’d probably play Oketra sooner than this.
UBlue EndU
BAd NauseamB
https://youtu.be/S8qM1IKexBI
With yusei sensei deck list
I’m using 17 + 4 Sylvan Caryatid and 4 Chancellor of the Tangle and feels very good for me even without the Chancellors because I’m always flooded.
But 18 lands is pretty reasonable specially if you want hardcast creatures with CMC 5 or higher.
@Ther03 I would have probably missed it if you didn't post it here, thanks!
@Bradpt I would go for 18 if you're not playing any Chancellors.
Lands(17)
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Blood Crypt
2 Ovegrown Tomb
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Stomping Ground
Spells(17)
4 Faithless Looting
4 Grisly Salvage
3 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Collective Brutality
1 Grapple with the Past
1 Tormenting Voice
1 Cathartic Reunion
1 Gather for the Pack
Creatures(26)
4 Soulflayer
4 Chancellor of the Tangle
4 Samut, Voice of Dissent
4 Chromanticore
4 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Hazoret, The Fervent
2 Gishath, Sun’s Avatar
2 XX (Gishath, Zetalpa, Archwing Dragon, Rhonas, Flamewake Phoenix, Hazoret, Carnage Tyrant, Akroma Angel of Wrath, Drogskol Reaver)
I’m thinking is more important has Hexproof, Haste and Double Strike instead Indestructible and I always prefer castable creatures to play post sideboard against grave hate. Maybe with Assassin’s Trophy coming open some spaces in SB to put some different creatures to focus the keywords depending the match. I don’t like to use discards and prefer to keep slots to removals and some helpful creatures like Faerie Macabre, Lightning Axe, Firespout and Maybe now more Collective Brutality and some Kolaghan’s Command.
I think you should play at least 2 Zetalpa, Primal Dawn to fill some double strike and indestructible slot. Although you don't like indestructible, it will come in handy in many match ups you'll see on competitive league such as UW Control, G Tron and BGx match ups. But if I were to choose from the options you provided I would play Drogskol Reaver.
About creatures I will try Zetalpa again and gather some TIX to buy Drogskol Reaver or even test Spike Trooper(Lifelink combined with Haste seems so good against Burn).
Other card I liked to much in this deck is Archwing Dragon. Very good topdeck in grindy games and dodges Liliana’s habilities.
@Tobias Kullberg Nowadays I’m using Firespout instead because I could choose what kind of creatures I will kill. Against BW Tokens is very useful even if opponent cast Anthems and Vs Aggro Decks in general kills all board.
About Savage Summoning I always use like 2 or 3 due in MTGO meta I always found some controls in Leagues.
UBlue EndU
BAd NauseamB
For me Carnage Tyrant in this deck is not necessary like Thrun(because against controls I prefer to board in Savage Summoning, discards and possible removals to RIP Leyline and Relic). But Sylvan Caryatid is very important to give Hexproof and fix your mana base mainly vs Blood Moon.
It`s another R-cost 1/1 with Haste and a self-sacrificing ability (think Fanatical Firebrand) - but unlike Firebrand whose sac ability pings something for 1, this card's sac ability gives a creature haste until EOT. The sac doesn't require tapping either, for what tiny little relevance that has.
Any potential for the decks running Firebrand to swap to this? If we wind up making a big Soulflayer without haste - or even if we wind up hardcasting one of our big nonhaste creatures (Chromanticore?) we can cash it in to give the new arrival haste. And if course it has the usual utility of being self-saccable to add a haste creature to the graveyard to make your next soulflayer hasty. A slight bit of extra spice? Cast Torch Courier on 1 and attack. On 2 attack again, cast Sylvan Caryatid, then sac Torch Courier to give Caryatid haste so you can use its mana for something right now, meanwhile populating your grave with a haste creature.
I think is very interesting, but the main reason to Fanatical Firebrand have any spot in this deck despite have Haste keyword is the it can handle with x/1 creatures like Thalia, Snapcaster Mage, Dark Confidant, Mana Dorks, Bloodghast, Gravecrawler. This is very important tempo play in some matches which is the difference between win or loss.
I guess the Torch Runner will be good against control decks attacking while you set your board or graveyard and save some clock in the match.
Needs several playtest.
Do you think Fanatical Firebrand is better than Bomat Courier? I really like both, but Bomat helps a lot to find the Delirium
UBlue EndU
BAd NauseamB
I like to much Bomat, but not in the current metagame because its easily to be blocked and its hability can trash some good cards.
Due using 4 Chromanticore I don’t have any problems with reach delirium.