@thatmarkguy
I've chosen Sagu Mauler over Carnage Tyrant for a reason. Having an option to cast a creature for 3 mana is huge. As you mentioned it can chump block and go to graveyard or I can flip it and play Sagu for 5 mana the next turn. Foremost, it can help bait counter spells for Summoning Trap because morph creatures count as creature spell. These are all things Carnage Tyrant cannot do. I believe it worth adding the forth color for Sagu (and Keranos, God of Storms).
@KZGu1taR
I've noticed that blending the two deck was a bad idea. I've updated the anti-control brew so that it doesn't have to rely on Worship against aggro decks.
I increased the number of lifelink creature for better chance of survival against aggro deck. The only downside of this deck is that compared to my past 5-0 decks, it only has 4 haste creature which makes this deck weak against combo decks. I tried to comprehend by adding 1 Lost Legacy in the sideboard. If that not enough I might remove 1 Sagu or Keranos for Hazoret the Fervent. I will try this deck out in league soon.
Here is a 4 color deck that focuses on playing Soulflayer on turn 1. In order to play Gemstone Caverns on turn 0 we must choose to not play first. This gives us disadvantage against hand disruption spell so we have Izzet Charm in the mainboard and Leyline of Sanctity in the sideboard for protection. There are several method of playing Soulflayer on turn 1. We can either have combination of: Gemstone Caverns, Thought Scour and Fetchland or Gemstone Caverns, Simian Spirit Guide and Faithless Looting. There are other methods but these two are the most likely combination. Even if we can't play Soulflayer, it is possible to play Geist of Saint Traft and Captain Lannery Storm on turn 1. Lannery is a great sub-plan against graveyard hate.
Here is a jund deck that utilizes Chancellor of the Tangle to play Grisly Salvage on turn 1 or cast Faithless Looting and Traverse the Ulvenwald on turn 1 to cast Soulflayer on turn 2. This deck attempts to increase the likelihood of playing Soulflayer on turn 2. Since a regular jund deck lacks turn 1 plays, having Chancellor in the starting hand lets us cast 2 mana spell on turn 1 instead of turn 2. Unlike Simian Spirit Guide and Gemstone Caverns, Chancellor doesn't reduce the number of card in hand which lets us utilize Faithless Looting more effectively. Chancellor can give Soulflayer reach and vigilance which is useful against aggro deck.
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Here is a 4 color deck that focuses on playing Soulflayer on turn 1. In order to play Gemstone Caverns on turn 0 we must choose to not play first. This gives us disadvantage against hand disruption spell so we have Izzet Charm in the mainboard and Leyline of Sanctity in the sideboard for protection. There are several method of playing Soulflayer on turn 1. We can either have combination of: Gemstone Caverns, Thought Scour and Fetchland or Gemstone Caverns, Simian Spirit Guide and Faithless Looting. There are other methods but these two are the most likely combination. Even if we can't play Soulflayer, it is possible to play Geist of Saint Traft and Captain Lannery Storm on turn 1.
This idea looks extremely unreliable, in a magical Christmasland kinda way. Getting a relevant Soulflayer on turn 1 is harder than you make it look.
The Thought Scour version needs a nearly precise top 10 cards of your library. You need double caverns to produce the black mana you need, which reduces your opening hand to 4, counting the draw. Among the remaining 4 cards, you need a fetch, scour/looting, and, of course, your marquee delve creature. The top 2 cards of your library (after the shuffle) need to be creatures with relevant abilities if you don't want to put on a horrible Hollow One impression.
Faithless Looting (and Manamorphose with scour) gives you two extra cards of wiggle room, as you can substitute a cavern for Simian Spirit Guide and actually discard a drawn creature. Regardless, that's 5 specific cards, so I'd suggest sticking to a merely fast plan than an instant gratification one. Running 4 colorless lands is a heavy toll for a deck that is nominally 3 colors.
You need double caverns to produce the black mana you need, which reduces your opening hand to 4, counting the draw.
Gemstone Caverns is a legendary land btw. It true that turn 1 play doesn't happen frequently but it still possible to win by playing Soulflayer on turn 2 or 3. This was meant to be an update for my old Soulflayer deck with some of the new cards that came out recently. It may not be as good as jund build but it has its own possibilities.
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You need double caverns to produce the black mana you need, which reduces your opening hand to 4, counting the draw.
Gemstone Caverns is a legendary land btw. It true that turn 1 play doesn't happen frequently but it still possible to win by playing Soulflayer on turn 2 or 3. This was meant to be an update for my old Soulflayer deck with some of the new cards that came out recently. It may not be as good as jund build but it has its own possibilities.
Ah, didn't notice that. Right, then Looting+SSG or Scour+Manamorphose+SSG it is. I still think that land is going to screw you sometimes, just like how a single ETB tapped land can mess up decks that need to be on-curve.
I dunno I’d have it slightly ahead of Wayfinder (this is a T1 drop that, if you got a single fetch, enables a t2 soulflayer; Wayfinder isn’t a T1 except in mana-accelerant flavours) or Shreikhorn (doesn’t dig quite as deep for t2, isn’t a creature so can’t pitch on Lotleth). I would be more inclined to consider it in builds that sacrifice it for value though - a deck running, say, Eldritch Evolution that could sac it into something like Nighthawk or Lannery or Mantis Rider or Flamewake would be a role that could squeeze more use out of it.
Blue Moon 1-2
Ad Nauseam 2-0
Eldrazi Tron 0-2
Thopter/Krak-clan combo 2-1
Living End 1-2
Bant Eldrazi 2-1
Amulet Titan 2-0
UR Storm 2-0
I decided to play 2 Nihil Spellbomb in the sideboard because I knew I was going to play against some sort of graveyard deck if I was going to play 8 round. One match up I was hoping to avoid was Living End since I knew I had no chance of winning against Archfiend of Ifnir. I'm glad I was able to beat the mainstream combo decks (Storm, Amulet Titan and Ad Nauseam) though. I probably didn't make it to top 32 but I had lot of fun playing this deck!
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I'vee been trying the 3 Leyline of sanctity in the sideboard, and i think it's pretty good. See, i've been playing Living end for a long time and in the LE primer a lot of users make the arguments for LoS as a a catch-all anti-disruptor. While I Don't personally think that that deck (living end) needs it, (because it's way more versatile and gy-hate resilient), I think that this deck absolutely needs it and i'll tell you why:
1. Stops hand disruptors (Thoughtseize, Iok)
2. Stops linear decks, that normally we have some hard time (Burn, Ad naus, KCI, storm)
3. Stops most graveyard hate (Nihil, rakdos Charm, relic, other removals that aren't RiP or Leyline of the void)
4. Stops Liliana and Blessed alliance -biggest ofenders against this deck
I don't know, have been playing a couple of games with it on Cockatrice, and i'm throughly impress with the amount of times i put side them in.
I would definitely play Leyline of Sanctity if I splashed white. How is playing without any Thoughtseize in the sideboard? As much as leyline of sanctity can help, I would still like to have at least 2 thoughtseize in the sideboard.
I've been playing without Thoughtseize in the SB. Because of that i've lost games against UW control and Ad nauseam. But i think that our Midrange, DS and burn mathcup is way better thanks to Leyline of Sanctity. Also started using a lone Anger of the gods in the SB... weirdly enough Zoo is picking in popularity again, and you know, elves and Humans also get hoses with it.
We can stop meddling mage with abrupt decay also. I don't think the humans matchup isn't a problem in that regard, unless they have the ultimate god hand of disruption, then in that case you won't win (not many other decks can as well). I' not to preoccupied with Meddling mage because Humans are going to get a ban very soon, and meddling mage looks like the most likely candidate.
I also think Samut, Voice of Dissent is an unnecesary card. Sure, it is castable, but also Hazoret the Fervent is castable, and honestly Hazoret is a way better creature than Samut. What does Zamut gives Soulflayer anyway? Double strike, vigilance and haste. Not good enough, since you have double strike in Zetalpa (and that is a 4 must in every Flayer deck), And chromanticore (also a must). And haste you can use bomat couriers or Fanatical firebrand.
Keep in mind i don't have the deck sleeved up yet, I'm trying it out on cockatrice and possibly start ordering the cards next month or so.
I need some times against eh UW mathcups. what is your gameplan against them? They have a lot of stuff that neutralize our threats, Terminus, Settle the wreckage, Cryptic Command, and so on.
I'm not sure why you think Humans is getting a ban? Has it been said by someone on Wizards staff or something?
Also I definitely disagree with Zetalpa being an auto 4-of. You should be building your list in a way that you have an at least servicable plan B. That's why cards like Samut and Hazoret are fantastic. They give Soulflayer really relevant abilities and are legitimate threats on their own. I had BW tokens turn one thoughtseize surgical my Flayers and I still crushed him with Samut, Chromanticore (I run one Godless Shrine in addition to Caryatid) and Hazoret. Also Drogskol Reaver > Zetalpa imo. Slightly more castable, and flying lifelink doublestrike can be a game ender in its own, especially with either haste or hexproof also.
My gameplan against UWx is to just jam as much discard as I possibly can and packing cards like Thrun and other 4-5 drop threats instead of uncastable fatties
I recently started playing 2 Defense Grid in my sideboard. I used to experiment on Summoning Trap but it did not stop opponent from tapping my creatures with Cryptic Command.
I want to find space for 4 Zetalpa in my deck but I also want at least 2 Drogskol Reaver too. I was thinking maybe I don't need Bomat Courier but losing haste creature and artifact card type is hurtful.
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I'm not sure why you think Humans is getting a ban? Has it been said by someone on Wizards staff or something?
Also I definitely disagree with Zetalpa being an auto 4-of. You should be building your list in a way that you have an at least servicable plan B. That's why cards like Samut and Hazoret are fantastic. They give Soulflayer really relevant abilities and are legitimate threats on their own. I had BW tokens turn one thoughtseize surgical my Flayers and I still crushed him with Samut, Chromanticore (I run one Godless Shrine in addition to Caryatid) and Hazoret. Also Drogskol Reaver > Zetalpa imo. Slightly more castable, and flying lifelink doublestrike can be a game ender in its own, especially with either haste or hexproof also.
My gameplan against UWx is to just jam as much discard as I possibly can and packing cards like Thrun and other 4-5 drop threats instead of uncastable fatties
Welp i actually do have a plan B. THat's why i have a 2x mana confluence as lands so that i can cast Zetalpa. Listen, usually plan B casting Chromanticore is good enough, or even bestow it upon a creature.
4 & 5 mana creature with haste and/or built in protection are infinitely better than 7 and 8 mana fatties as a plan B.
And a turn 2 Haste Indestructible Doublestrike Vigilance Soulflayer usually is good enough. Especially when you have Haste creatures in the 3, 4, 5 slots of the curve and a hexproof mana dork to power them out faster. So if they manage to deal with your Soulflayer and you don't have another one set up, you still have a reliable number of reliable threats to hard cast and put the nail in the coffin. By the time you have 8 mana your opponent has stabilized or killed you.
Zetalpa is high quality keyword soup, but still a really terrible card and not something I want to max out on
Here is my current deck. My modern competitive league score after M19 was released with this deck is 4-1 and 3-2.
I decided to run 4 Zetalpa, Primal Dawn because of UW spirit's popularity on league. Indestructible Soulflayer is a must have for fighting off indestructible spirits.
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Just picked up the missing pieces for this deck and put in a couple matches online - looks sweet! Couple initial thoughts/questions:
1) Shouldn't we play some fetchable U/W lands to facilitate hardcasting chromanticore, reaver, or zepalta? Especially chroma since its only 5cmc - right now the only way you're doing that is if you have 2 caryatids out. Has it been tried and found to just be better off accepting you dont hardcast these cards? Even a single fetchable white source would make it so you could get those all off with just 1 caryatid instead of 2! Theres always the chance you grisly salvage or looting it away anyways, but then you're no worse off than when you werent playing it anyways.
2) No liliana of the veil? I again guess that she was tried and cut for being too slow? I've just definitely had hands with too many 5/7/8 drops just begging for a troll or looting to get rid of them with. Liliana is slow there but at least its another out!
3) bomat courier vs fanatical firebrand. How important is the artifact card type for enabling traverse? I have yet to actually sac a courier for discard/draw since it eats all of their otherwise stranded removals most of the time, or just cant swing anyways because something bigger is in the way. Most of the upside seems to be in them burning removal on it or pitching it to salvage/looting to get our 4 card types for delerium. The ping from firebrand can actually slow some decks down (mana dork, bob) or even hilariously provide the 1 point of missing reach if a 4/4 doublestrike flayer runs into a 5/5 angler or 4/5 tasigur etc.
Just picked up the missing pieces for this deck and put in a couple matches online - looks sweet! Couple initial thoughts/questions:
1) Shouldn't we play some fetchable U/W lands to facilitate hardcasting chromanticore, reaver, or zepalta? Especially chroma since its only 5cmc - right now the only way you're doing that is if you have 2 caryatids out. Has it been tried and found to just be better off accepting you dont hardcast these cards? Even a single fetchable white source would make it so you could get those all off with just 1 caryatid instead of 2! Theres always the chance you grisly salvage or looting it away anyways, but then you're no worse off than when you werent playing it anyways.
2) No liliana of the veil? I again guess that she was tried and cut for being too slow? I've just definitely had hands with too many 5/7/8 drops just begging for a troll or looting to get rid of them with. Liliana is slow there but at least its another out!
3) bomat courier vs fanatical firebrand. How important is the artifact card type for enabling traverse? I have yet to actually sac a courier for discard/draw since it eats all of their otherwise stranded removals most of the time, or just cant swing anyways because something bigger is in the way. Most of the upside seems to be in them burning removal on it or pitching it to salvage/looting to get our 4 card types for delerium. The ping from firebrand can actually slow some decks down (mana dork, bob) or even hilariously provide the 1 point of missing reach if a 4/4 doublestrike flayer runs into a 5/5 angler or 4/5 tasigur etc.
1- I play a miser godless shrine, and that works fine if I reeeeeally need to cast, but it is better as a cavern of souls. Unlike what many people in this thread say your plan B is NOT casting fatties. It is casting lotleth troll and using those plus phoenixes to kill your opponent.
2- I have put thousands of reps with Soulflayer. I played it in standard and have played it since in modern occasionally, and as my main deck since zetalpa was released. Modern flayer SHOULD be killing you T4-5 so playing a Liliana t3 is too slow and takes away from an integral turn in your development. You should be flashing back a looting, or double spelling on t3 (traverse into flayer, using caryatid to salvage then flayer, etc) if you have issues filtering your hand there are better options- Pack Rat, collective brutality, hazoret, etc.
3-Bomat is insane. It definitely is a great refuel for your hand. ALSO. it helps in reference to question 2. Oh, have a hand full of fatties and a traverse? Cool. Cast traverse, hold priority and activate Bomat. Pitch your fatties, enable delirium, refill your hand and tutor for Flayer.
There are a lot of great tech plays with this deck.
I looked over the last few pages and did not see lists with Phoenix in them - could you share one? I'm curious what gets cut and how many you'd play. I have found the non-soulflayer lines of play in the deck to be pretty anemic. Phoenix doesnt sound particularly great since you'd need a double discard troll or a flayer to enable it (Samut is the other backup plan and he sadly doesnt give ferocious) - and if we have a flayer we likely dont need phoenix (except maybe to protect from liliana -2?) and ma have even delved it for haste.
So that seems like a pretty marginal window where phoenix would work. I could imagine going back on the lingering souls plan first since its at least good at buying time when we need it while clocking at roughly the same rate without requiring one very specific setup (troll with 2 discards)
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
I've chosen Sagu Mauler over Carnage Tyrant for a reason. Having an option to cast a creature for 3 mana is huge. As you mentioned it can chump block and go to graveyard or I can flip it and play Sagu for 5 mana the next turn. Foremost, it can help bait counter spells for Summoning Trap because morph creatures count as creature spell. These are all things Carnage Tyrant cannot do. I believe it worth adding the forth color for Sagu (and Keranos, God of Storms).
@KZGu1taR
I've noticed that blending the two deck was a bad idea. I've updated the anti-control brew so that it doesn't have to rely on Worship against aggro decks.
4x Soulflayer
4x Lotleth Troll
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Sagu Mauler
4x Samut, Voice of Dissent
4x Chromanticore
2x Drogskol Reaver
2x Zetalpa, Primal Dawn
1x Keranos, God of Storms
Spell x13
4x Traverse the Ulvenwald
4x Faithless Looting
4x Grisly Salvage
1x Collective Brutality
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Wooded Foothills
1x Cavern of Souls
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Blood Crypt
1x Stomping Ground
1x Watery Grave
1x Swamp
1x Forest
2x Thoughtseize
4x Summoning Trap
3x Damping Sphere
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Lost Legacy
I increased the number of lifelink creature for better chance of survival against aggro deck. The only downside of this deck is that compared to my past 5-0 decks, it only has 4 haste creature which makes this deck weak against combo decks. I tried to comprehend by adding 1 Lost Legacy in the sideboard. If that not enough I might remove 1 Sagu or Keranos for Hazoret the Fervent. I will try this deck out in league soon.
4x Soulflayer
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Striped Riverwinder
3x Geist of Saint Traft
1x Captain Lannery Storm
4x Samut, Voice of Dissent
4x Drogskol Reaver
4x Zetalpa, Primal Dawn
Spell x15
4x Thought Scour
4x Faithless Looting
4x Manamorphose
3x Izzet Charm
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Gemstone Caverns
2x Blood Crypt
1x Godless Shrine
1x Watery Grave
1x Swamp
4x Lightning Axe
4x Wear // Tear
2x Darkblast
4x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Captain Lannery Storm
Here is a 4 color deck that focuses on playing Soulflayer on turn 1. In order to play Gemstone Caverns on turn 0 we must choose to not play first. This gives us disadvantage against hand disruption spell so we have Izzet Charm in the mainboard and Leyline of Sanctity in the sideboard for protection. There are several method of playing Soulflayer on turn 1. We can either have combination of: Gemstone Caverns, Thought Scour and Fetchland or Gemstone Caverns, Simian Spirit Guide and Faithless Looting. There are other methods but these two are the most likely combination. Even if we can't play Soulflayer, it is possible to play Geist of Saint Traft and Captain Lannery Storm on turn 1. Lannery is a great sub-plan against graveyard hate.
4x Soulflayer
4x Lotleth Troll
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Samut, Voice of Dissent
3x Bomat Courier
3x Chromanticore
2x Drogskol Reaver
2x Zetalpa, Primal Dawn
4x Chancellor of the Tangle
1x Hazoret the Fervent
Spell x12
4x Traverse the Ulvenwald
4x Faithless Looting
4x Grisly Salvage
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Wooded Foothills
1x Cavern of Souls
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Blood Crypt
1x Stomping Ground
1x Swamp
1x Forest
4x Thoughtseize
3x Damping Sphere
2x Ancient Grudge
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Collective Brutality
1x Engineered Explosives
Here is a jund deck that utilizes Chancellor of the Tangle to play Grisly Salvage on turn 1 or cast Faithless Looting and Traverse the Ulvenwald on turn 1 to cast Soulflayer on turn 2. This deck attempts to increase the likelihood of playing Soulflayer on turn 2. Since a regular jund deck lacks turn 1 plays, having Chancellor in the starting hand lets us cast 2 mana spell on turn 1 instead of turn 2. Unlike Simian Spirit Guide and Gemstone Caverns, Chancellor doesn't reduce the number of card in hand which lets us utilize Faithless Looting more effectively. Chancellor can give Soulflayer reach and vigilance which is useful against aggro deck.
This idea looks extremely unreliable, in a magical Christmasland kinda way. Getting a relevant Soulflayer on turn 1 is harder than you make it look.
The Thought Scour version needs a nearly precise top 10 cards of your library. You need double caverns to produce the black mana you need, which reduces your opening hand to 4, counting the draw. Among the remaining 4 cards, you need a fetch, scour/looting, and, of course, your marquee delve creature. The top 2 cards of your library (after the shuffle) need to be creatures with relevant abilities if you don't want to put on a horrible Hollow One impression.
Faithless Looting (and Manamorphose with scour) gives you two extra cards of wiggle room, as you can substitute a cavern for Simian Spirit Guide and actually discard a drawn creature. Regardless, that's 5 specific cards, so I'd suggest sticking to a merely fast plan than an instant gratification one. Running 4 colorless lands is a heavy toll for a deck that is nominally 3 colors.
Ah, didn't notice that. Right, then Looting+SSG or Scour+Manamorphose+SSG it is. I still think that land is going to screw you sometimes, just like how a single ETB tapped land can mess up decks that need to be on-curve.
4x Soulflayer
4x Lotleth Troll
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Samut, Voice of Dissent
4x Chromanticore
4x Zetalpa, Primal Dawn
4x Chancellor of the Tangle
1x Hazoret the Fervent
Spell x14
4x Traverse the Ulvenwald
4x Faithless Looting
4x Grisly Salvage
2x Collevtive Brutality
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Wooded Foothills
1x Cavern of Souls
2x Overgrown Tomb
2x Blood Crypt
1x Swamp
1x Forest
4x Thoughtseize
3x Damping Sphere
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Pyroclasm
1x Engineered Explosives
Here is the deck I am currently testing. I decided to replace Stomping Ground with Blood Crypt since I desperately need black mana if I wanted to cast Grisly Salvage on turn 1 using extra mana from Chancellor of the Tangle. I am not using Bomat Courier in this deck because Grisly Salvage, Lotleth Troll, Collective Brutality and Sylvan Caryatid is now a turn 1 playable card.
I dunno I’d have it slightly ahead of Wayfinder (this is a T1 drop that, if you got a single fetch, enables a t2 soulflayer; Wayfinder isn’t a T1 except in mana-accelerant flavours) or Shreikhorn (doesn’t dig quite as deep for t2, isn’t a creature so can’t pitch on Lotleth). I would be more inclined to consider it in builds that sacrifice it for value though - a deck running, say, Eldritch Evolution that could sac it into something like Nighthawk or Lannery or Mantis Rider or Flamewake would be a role that could squeeze more use out of it.
4x Soulflayer
4x Lotleth Troll
3x Bomat Courier
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Samut, Voice of Dissent
4x Chromanticore
2x Drogskol Reaver
2x Zetalpa, Primal Dawn
1x Hazoret the Fervent
Spell x13
4x Traverse the Ulvenwald
4x Faithless Looting
4x Grisly Salvage
1x Collective Brutality
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Wooded Foothills
2x Blooming Marsh
1x Cavern of Souls
2x Overgrown Tomb
2x Blood Crypt
1x Swamp
1x Forest
2x Thoughtseize
2x Ancient Grudge
3x Damping Sphere
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Grim Lavamancer
2x Engineered Explosives
2x Nihil Spellbomb
Blue Moon 1-2
Ad Nauseam 2-0
Eldrazi Tron 0-2
Thopter/Krak-clan combo 2-1
Living End 1-2
Bant Eldrazi 2-1
Amulet Titan 2-0
UR Storm 2-0
I decided to play 2 Nihil Spellbomb in the sideboard because I knew I was going to play against some sort of graveyard deck if I was going to play 8 round. One match up I was hoping to avoid was Living End since I knew I had no chance of winning against Archfiend of Ifnir. I'm glad I was able to beat the mainstream combo decks (Storm, Amulet Titan and Ad Nauseam) though. I probably didn't make it to top 32 but I had lot of fun playing this deck!
4 Chromanticore
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Zetalpa, Primal Dawn
4 Soulflayer
2 Hazoret the Fervent
3 Flamewake Phoenix
2 Bomat Courier
Instant 5
4 Grisly Salvage
1 Grapple with the Past
Sorcery 9
4 Faithless Looting
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
1 Collective Brutality
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Blooming Marsh
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Mana Confluence
3 Damping Sphere
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Shriekmaw
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Nature's Claim
3 Abrupt Decay
I'vee been trying the 3 Leyline of sanctity in the sideboard, and i think it's pretty good. See, i've been playing Living end for a long time and in the LE primer a lot of users make the arguments for LoS as a a catch-all anti-disruptor. While I Don't personally think that that deck (living end) needs it, (because it's way more versatile and gy-hate resilient), I think that this deck absolutely needs it and i'll tell you why:
1. Stops hand disruptors (Thoughtseize, Iok)
2. Stops linear decks, that normally we have some hard time (Burn, Ad naus, KCI, storm)
3. Stops most graveyard hate (Nihil, rakdos Charm, relic, other removals that aren't RiP or Leyline of the void)
4. Stops Liliana and Blessed alliance -biggest ofenders against this deck
I don't know, have been playing a couple of games with it on Cockatrice, and i'm throughly impress with the amount of times i put side them in.
Shriekmaw is a great answer to Meddling Mage. I'm not sure if it better then Grim Lavamancer or another Engineered Explosives though.
Do you think Samut, Voice of Dissent is unnecessary if we have Flamewake Phoenix and Hazoret the Fervent?
We can stop meddling mage with abrupt decay also. I don't think the humans matchup isn't a problem in that regard, unless they have the ultimate god hand of disruption, then in that case you won't win (not many other decks can as well). I' not to preoccupied with Meddling mage because Humans are going to get a ban very soon, and meddling mage looks like the most likely candidate.
I also think Samut, Voice of Dissent is an unnecesary card. Sure, it is castable, but also Hazoret the Fervent is castable, and honestly Hazoret is a way better creature than Samut. What does Zamut gives Soulflayer anyway? Double strike, vigilance and haste. Not good enough, since you have double strike in Zetalpa (and that is a 4 must in every Flayer deck), And chromanticore (also a must). And haste you can use bomat couriers or Fanatical firebrand.
Keep in mind i don't have the deck sleeved up yet, I'm trying it out on cockatrice and possibly start ordering the cards next month or so.
I need some times against eh UW mathcups. what is your gameplan against them? They have a lot of stuff that neutralize our threats, Terminus, Settle the wreckage, Cryptic Command, and so on.
Also I definitely disagree with Zetalpa being an auto 4-of. You should be building your list in a way that you have an at least servicable plan B. That's why cards like Samut and Hazoret are fantastic. They give Soulflayer really relevant abilities and are legitimate threats on their own. I had BW tokens turn one thoughtseize surgical my Flayers and I still crushed him with Samut, Chromanticore (I run one Godless Shrine in addition to Caryatid) and Hazoret. Also Drogskol Reaver > Zetalpa imo. Slightly more castable, and flying lifelink doublestrike can be a game ender in its own, especially with either haste or hexproof also.
My gameplan against UWx is to just jam as much discard as I possibly can and packing cards like Thrun and other 4-5 drop threats instead of uncastable fatties
I want to find space for 4 Zetalpa in my deck but I also want at least 2 Drogskol Reaver too. I was thinking maybe I don't need Bomat Courier but losing haste creature and artifact card type is hurtful.
Welp i actually do have a plan B. THat's why i have a 2x mana confluence as lands so that i can cast Zetalpa. Listen, usually plan B casting Chromanticore is good enough, or even bestow it upon a creature.
And a turn 2 Haste Indestructible Doublestrike Vigilance Soulflayer usually is good enough. Especially when you have Haste creatures in the 3, 4, 5 slots of the curve and a hexproof mana dork to power them out faster. So if they manage to deal with your Soulflayer and you don't have another one set up, you still have a reliable number of reliable threats to hard cast and put the nail in the coffin. By the time you have 8 mana your opponent has stabilized or killed you.
Zetalpa is high quality keyword soup, but still a really terrible card and not something I want to max out on
4x Soulflayer
4x Lotleth Troll
3x Bomat Courier
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Samut, Voice of Dissent
4x Chromanticore
4x Zetalpa, Primal Dawn
1x Hazoret the Fervent
Spell x13
4x Traverse the Ulvenwald
4x Faithless Looting
4x Grisly Salvage
1x Collective Brutality
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Wooded Foothills
2x Blooming Marsh
1x Cavern of Souls
2x Overgrown Tomb
2x Blood Crypt
1x Swamp
1x Forest
4x Thoughtseize
2x Ancient Grudge
3x Damping Sphere
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Defense Grid
Here is my current deck. My modern competitive league score after M19 was released with this deck is 4-1 and 3-2.
I decided to run 4 Zetalpa, Primal Dawn because of UW spirit's popularity on league. Indestructible Soulflayer is a must have for fighting off indestructible spirits.
1) Shouldn't we play some fetchable U/W lands to facilitate hardcasting chromanticore, reaver, or zepalta? Especially chroma since its only 5cmc - right now the only way you're doing that is if you have 2 caryatids out. Has it been tried and found to just be better off accepting you dont hardcast these cards? Even a single fetchable white source would make it so you could get those all off with just 1 caryatid instead of 2! Theres always the chance you grisly salvage or looting it away anyways, but then you're no worse off than when you werent playing it anyways.
2) No liliana of the veil? I again guess that she was tried and cut for being too slow? I've just definitely had hands with too many 5/7/8 drops just begging for a troll or looting to get rid of them with. Liliana is slow there but at least its another out!
3) bomat courier vs fanatical firebrand. How important is the artifact card type for enabling traverse? I have yet to actually sac a courier for discard/draw since it eats all of their otherwise stranded removals most of the time, or just cant swing anyways because something bigger is in the way. Most of the upside seems to be in them burning removal on it or pitching it to salvage/looting to get our 4 card types for delerium. The ping from firebrand can actually slow some decks down (mana dork, bob) or even hilariously provide the 1 point of missing reach if a 4/4 doublestrike flayer runs into a 5/5 angler or 4/5 tasigur etc.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
1- I play a miser godless shrine, and that works fine if I reeeeeally need to cast, but it is better as a cavern of souls. Unlike what many people in this thread say your plan B is NOT casting fatties. It is casting lotleth troll and using those plus phoenixes to kill your opponent.
2- I have put thousands of reps with Soulflayer. I played it in standard and have played it since in modern occasionally, and as my main deck since zetalpa was released. Modern flayer SHOULD be killing you T4-5 so playing a Liliana t3 is too slow and takes away from an integral turn in your development. You should be flashing back a looting, or double spelling on t3 (traverse into flayer, using caryatid to salvage then flayer, etc) if you have issues filtering your hand there are better options- Pack Rat, collective brutality, hazoret, etc.
3-Bomat is insane. It definitely is a great refuel for your hand. ALSO. it helps in reference to question 2. Oh, have a hand full of fatties and a traverse? Cool. Cast traverse, hold priority and activate Bomat. Pitch your fatties, enable delirium, refill your hand and tutor for Flayer.
There are a lot of great tech plays with this deck.
So that seems like a pretty marginal window where phoenix would work. I could imagine going back on the lingering souls plan first since its at least good at buying time when we need it while clocking at roughly the same rate without requiring one very specific setup (troll with 2 discards)
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Only reason I don't play it anymore is because I got plenty of haste creature already. This was before I started using Samut, Voice of Dissent. In a term of buying time I think we need a removal spell since that will also save us from Meddling Mage, Scavenging Ooze, Blinkmoth Nexus, and etc.