Well, I did it. I finally after all these years started playing modern. For the past month I've been piloting soul sisters. Because it is cheap to build. After reading up on my options of what I can play I feel grixis is where I want to be. So I've ordered marks winning list from states.
I look forward to reporting fnms in the near future and discuss changes made.
I know for sure I want to try batterskull mainboard maybe instead of the one of clique. and my sideboard will include 2x rain of gore
1x torper orb and 1x slaughter games
We have several other soul sisters pilots in our shop. And a few combo players. I expect these additions will be good vs my meta.
I'd also like to try out inquisition of kozeliks. Though I'd have to rearrange the mana base and running shackles won't allow for much.
Cheers.
Private Mod Note
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Modern: MONKEY GROW & Amulet Titan Legacy: RG Lands EDH: Merieke Ri Berit Esper Good stuff
@Bommah: Grixis doesnt have many ways of dealing with enchantments, most common answers are: a) make 'em discard it, b) counter it, or c) Engineered explosives it. Artifact, well Rakdos Charm is kind of versatile though never "wowza!", where Kolaghan's Command is auto-value and is sure awesome when rebuying a Snappy.
Private Mod Note
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MODERN Blue Lantern, UBx Tezzerator. OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
@Bommah: Grixis doesnt have many ways of dealing with enchantments, most common answers are: a) make 'em discard it, b) counter it, or c) Engineered explosives it. Artifact, well Rakdos Charm is kind of versatile though never "wowza!", where Kolaghan's Command is auto-value and is sure awesome when rebuying a Snappy.
Kolaghan's Command... Nice! I'm definitely gonna try and find room for that!
I feel like Engineered Explosives won't work so well against certain enchantments, particularly if any Leylines come out at the beginning, I have no way to counter them then and with only 3 mana colours I can't hit them with explosives.
There aren't many leylines that we have to worry about though. Sanctity is the worst in that it shuts off Bolt-Snap-Bolt, but that's not a huge blow and it's actually kind of good for us that they're using a card for it. If it's in their opening hand, it's essentially a mulligan (which is awesome) and if they draw it late game it's a completely dead draw.
Leyline of the Void is a bit worse, but again, it's not really worth a card in the matchup against us, and you should be kind of happy (or at least not too sad) whenever you see an opponent play one.
I'm surprised that he only played two Moons over three, but I can see it. I might have to give his list a whirl this week.
Edit: Also, the Thoughtseizes are interesting. I'm not sure if I'd play 4 Thoughtseize over a 2-2 Inquisition split. The damage, especially with a three color manabase, can stack up pretty quick.
I usually play Grixis Delver but I will definitely try this out. Just got to get the Shackles. Got a question... What are it's good match ups and bad match ups? I know already from Grixis Delver that Burn is probably a little rough but what about other match ups? Thanks!
Unfortunately, we haven't been playing long enough for any definitive information on what the good/bad matchups are. I can give you what I've noticed from playing a Moon deck detailed in the opening post (a few changes here or there depending on the week), but this is in no way comprehensive and the others might have more information for you.
Twin: We're actually somewhat favored. We have a ton of removal for their stuff, and while we lack the early threats that Delver can put out which makes them heavily favored against Twin, we do have some powerful finishers that Twin can't really deal with (Batterskull, Tasigur, etc). Twin likes to turn into a Moon deck postboard, but we're better at doing that already. On top of that, we have some pretty good options like Jace, more Terminates and Kommands, etc. I wouldn't say it's a blowout in our favor (in fact it's pretty close), but we definitely have game, especially postboard.
Abzan: If you're playing Moon main deck, this matchup is absurdly easy. We have the removal for their stuff and can play a good late game, especially with threats that they can't handle like Batterskull. Postboard with 3 Blood Moons you're definitely favored, and you have some awesome options like Olivia (for their spirit tokens) and Jace (for the crazy card advantage). I'd say this one is a great matchup.
Burn: This matchup is kinda bad. If you can get a hand with early countermagic (especially Spell Snare) and some Bolts, you might be good. You'll need to land a threat early, however, and your lands are going to hurt you. If you run Blood Moon main, it'll be pretty dead, which can really hurt you game 1 if you keep a hand on the back of a Moon. If you're really scared about this matchup, run more Spell Snares and some Dragon's Claws in the sideboard.
Affinity: Also kinda bad. If you open a hand with Bolts, Terminates or Kommand, you're probably in an alright spot. As you can imagine, Kommand is just insane against them and can absolutely blow a game completely in your favor. Something like Bolt->Kommand->Snap Bolt is usually enough to shut a game down completely. However, you might open hands without those, which are going to be slower and you'll probably get run over. Blood Moon is also pretty bad in this matchup, as the most it does is turn off their manlands (which isn't worth 3 mana and a card). I'd mulligan aggressively for removal if you're against them.
Delver: I honestly think we're pretty favored against them. We run a lot of the same cards, but we can afford to sit back and just try to kill their stuff and eventually land a threat that they can't deal with (BATTERSKULL IS NOT THIS THREAT. KOMMAND CAN AND WILL 2 FOR 1 YOU). If they're on the traditional list, Olivia is pretty powerful against them if you can afford to wait a bit to start pinging dudes immediately. If they're on the Big Delve list, she is atrocious and you should bring in hard removal. Shackles, Batterskull and Blood Moon should all go out if they're in the main (the former two because of Kommand and the latter because their mana can support it).
Jund: Unlike Abzan, I think this matchup is worse. They aren't hit nearly as hard by Moon as Abzan is, and they're also much more aggressive. On the bright side, some run Bob (not all, or even most, but some) who dies to Bolt, and Huntmaster also dies to Bolt (unlike Abzan's 4 drop, Rhino). Like Delver, Shackles and Batterskull aren't great against them as they'll also play at least 1 Kommand. For boarding, I've found that Jace, Ashiok, Keranos are all good against them. They get you value, dodge removal and are just difficult to get rid of. Also, milling Tasigur to Ashiok is really annoying. Overall, the matchup is probably in their favor.
Bloom Titan: If you're running Moons and Terminates/Murderous Cut, this matchup is laughably in our favor. If you're running either of those without the other, the matchup is still good. If you're running neither, I'm very concerned about your deck construction. Hold up Spell Snare for an early Summer Bloom to stop them from doing stupid combo crap on you. Hold up Remand for their Titan if they do. Mana Leak CAN work in the early stages, but Remand is much more reliable. Having Terminate or Murderous Cut is even more reliable, but you have to do what you have to do. If they play Azusa, bolt her in response to them playing their first land (which is even better if they don't make a land drop before playing her). This will stop them from getting their extra drops. Be aware of Pact of Negation. Having multiple ways to kill/counter is great, though understandably they won't always have it. Thoughtseize is incredibly powerful against them, even though the core of their deck is made of lands. Yanking their Titan or Pact when they're not prepared for it can leave them with nothing to do, and picking an early Summer Bloom can just shut them down for several turns. TL;DR this matchup should be great unless you're hand/deck is awful.
Tron: Note that this is for RG, as I haven't played against U or UW enough to know, and they aren't really important enough to matter. With that in mind, we're kinda preboarded against them. Blood Moon is pretty decent, and if you're on the play it can shut off their turn 3 Tron->Karn. With a ton of countermagic, we're also pretty favored against their big stuff. However, don't let Karn resolve. We have no real way of dealing with him once he lands. If you don't have Blood Moons, don't durdle around. Their late game is WAY better than ours. Land a threat and hold up countermagic for their Karns and Wurmcoils and Nature's Claim (post board). I would say that if you land an early threat with a Moon, the game is in your favor. If you can't get one and just kind of screw around, it is decidedly in theirs.
Infect: With all of our removal, we have game against them pretty hard. Keeping a hand with early Bolt/Terminate is key. Be aware that Spell Snare can counter Apostle's Blessing, so holding one up when you cast a Bolt/Terminate is usually best. Blood Moon is surprisingly good against them, as it turns off Inkmoth Nexus and their Breeding Pools. While they can search for basics, their mana is significantly worse than ours in the face of a Blood Moon. If they have a quick hand, however, you can and will get run over. Overall, I think it's a a bit in our favor, but it can definitely swing either way.
Merfolk: They're a synergy deck, and killing their dudes disrupts that synergy. Bolt and Terminate are great, as is Cut. Shackles is actually pretty good against them (stealing a Lord at instant speed and trading with another is value. Who knew?) while Blood Moon is not (duh). Keeping a hand with early removal is way better than countermagic, especially with Kommand to destroy their Aether Vial. I'd put this matchup mostly in our favor, though sometimes they can just dump out dudes too quick for us to do anything about. Be aware of openings like this and plan your hands accordingly.
I can't talk about any other matchups, as I haven't played them, so hopefully that was helpful!
I don't get why he chose to ran GftT over Terminate. Overall I am a fan of 2 Blood Moons over 3 MB. I am also not 100% sold on roast. Still I think terminate would be the better card.
I would imagine that he's running both Go for the Throat and Roast because they're easier to cast under Blood Moon if you're locked out of one color for whatever reason. I also think Terminate is better, but if you're overly concerned about getting your colors under Blood Moon, both of those cards are likely the best choice.
But GftT has the exact same restriction as Terminate, meaning the black mana symbol. If you have it under blood moon you can cast both. If you don't you can't cast either. So GftT in this case seems just plain worse than Terminate.
The gentlemen over at Blue Moon / Shackles Control are now deep into splashing black. Basically, they're on the same deck as us. We should probably ask a MOD to see what's up with that, what can be done. I'm all for keeping things as constructive as possible. More people, more brains to work with. Two threads = lost potential.
I recently posted this in the Blue Moon thread and want people's input on it:
I think we need to keep discussion in one place so we aren't duplicating efforts and confusing forum goers. The discussion in Grixis Control is focused around the Grixis version of the thread. That is not the case in the Blue Moon thread: as recently as two pages ago, people are still discussing straight UR Moon decks. This reminds me of when people in the Junk thread were trying to discuss the recent success of Rhino lists, while people in the BG Rock/BGw Souls thread were also trying to discuss the same thing. The end result was confusion among users and separation of content.
There are three ways I think we could handle this:
1. Merge the threads. Grixis Control is basically a URB Moon thread anyway.
2. Keep the threads distinct but disallow any URB discussion here. Rename the Grixis Control thread accordingly so people know where to find it.
3. Archive both threads and make a new one ("Blue Moon Variants") so people aren't confused about what they are reading or where to go.
I'm not a big fan of #3 but could see good arguments for both 1 and 2. Thoughts?
3 is definitely not my favorite, so I'd be up for 2. I'd rather not have this thread get merged as there are Grixis Control decks that aren't running Blood Moon (like the Grixis Pyromancer list that's been floating around) and I'd love to keep a place to discuss those.
#2 is the best alternative I guess. The decks are quite different. Also Grixis Control without moon is a functioning deck, which is different to grixis cruel control, but quite similar to the moon variant. As seen above there are lists floating around in this thread basically exchanging the main deck moons with other cards for metagame purposes, but the rest of the deck is basically the same as the other grixis moon lists.
EDIT: Also this thread rather should be tier2 than the original blue moon one, since UR moon doesnt show any results anymore while grixis does.
This thread is not tier 2 yet. Then again, UR Moon is not tier 2 any more either. Both are getting moved to Developing Competitive on or around June 1st at this rate.
3 is definitely not my favorite, so I'd be up for 2. I'd rather not have this thread get merged as there are Grixis Control decks that aren't running Blood Moon (like the Grixis Pyromancer list that's been floating around) and I'd love to keep a place to discuss those.
Well, I did it. I finally after all these years started playing modern. For the past month I've been piloting soul sisters. Because it is cheap to build. After reading up on my options of what I can play I feel grixis is where I want to be. So I've ordered marks winning list from states.
I look forward to reporting fnms in the near future and discuss changes made.
I know for sure I want to try batterskull mainboard maybe instead of the one of clique. and my sideboard will include 2x rain of gore
1x torper orb and 1x slaughter games
We have several other soul sisters pilots in our shop. And a few combo players. I expect these additions will be good vs my meta.
I'd also like to try out inquisition of kozeliks. Though I'd have to rearrange the mana base and running shackles won't allow for much.
Cheers.
Modern: MONKEY GROW & Amulet Titan
Legacy: RG Lands
EDH: Merieke Ri Berit Esper Good stuff
@Bommah: Grixis doesnt have many ways of dealing with enchantments, most common answers are: a) make 'em discard it, b) counter it, or c) Engineered explosives it. Artifact, well Rakdos Charm is kind of versatile though never "wowza!", where Kolaghan's Command is auto-value and is sure awesome when rebuying a Snappy.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
If you're still scared of Affinity though, you could run Vandalblast.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
Kolaghan's Command... Nice! I'm definitely gonna try and find room for that!
I feel like Engineered Explosives won't work so well against certain enchantments, particularly if any Leylines come out at the beginning, I have no way to counter them then and with only 3 mana colours I can't hit them with explosives.
Leyline of the Void is a bit worse, but again, it's not really worth a card in the matchup against us, and you should be kind of happy (or at least not too sad) whenever you see an opponent play one.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=84972
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Edit: Also, the Thoughtseizes are interesting. I'm not sure if I'd play 4 Thoughtseize over a 2-2 Inquisition split. The damage, especially with a three color manabase, can stack up pretty quick.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
Twin: We're actually somewhat favored. We have a ton of removal for their stuff, and while we lack the early threats that Delver can put out which makes them heavily favored against Twin, we do have some powerful finishers that Twin can't really deal with (Batterskull, Tasigur, etc). Twin likes to turn into a Moon deck postboard, but we're better at doing that already. On top of that, we have some pretty good options like Jace, more Terminates and Kommands, etc. I wouldn't say it's a blowout in our favor (in fact it's pretty close), but we definitely have game, especially postboard.
Abzan: If you're playing Moon main deck, this matchup is absurdly easy. We have the removal for their stuff and can play a good late game, especially with threats that they can't handle like Batterskull. Postboard with 3 Blood Moons you're definitely favored, and you have some awesome options like Olivia (for their spirit tokens) and Jace (for the crazy card advantage). I'd say this one is a great matchup.
Burn: This matchup is kinda bad. If you can get a hand with early countermagic (especially Spell Snare) and some Bolts, you might be good. You'll need to land a threat early, however, and your lands are going to hurt you. If you run Blood Moon main, it'll be pretty dead, which can really hurt you game 1 if you keep a hand on the back of a Moon. If you're really scared about this matchup, run more Spell Snares and some Dragon's Claws in the sideboard.
Affinity: Also kinda bad. If you open a hand with Bolts, Terminates or Kommand, you're probably in an alright spot. As you can imagine, Kommand is just insane against them and can absolutely blow a game completely in your favor. Something like Bolt->Kommand->Snap Bolt is usually enough to shut a game down completely. However, you might open hands without those, which are going to be slower and you'll probably get run over. Blood Moon is also pretty bad in this matchup, as the most it does is turn off their manlands (which isn't worth 3 mana and a card). I'd mulligan aggressively for removal if you're against them.
Delver: I honestly think we're pretty favored against them. We run a lot of the same cards, but we can afford to sit back and just try to kill their stuff and eventually land a threat that they can't deal with (BATTERSKULL IS NOT THIS THREAT. KOMMAND CAN AND WILL 2 FOR 1 YOU). If they're on the traditional list, Olivia is pretty powerful against them if you can afford to wait a bit to start pinging dudes immediately. If they're on the Big Delve list, she is atrocious and you should bring in hard removal. Shackles, Batterskull and Blood Moon should all go out if they're in the main (the former two because of Kommand and the latter because their mana can support it).
Jund: Unlike Abzan, I think this matchup is worse. They aren't hit nearly as hard by Moon as Abzan is, and they're also much more aggressive. On the bright side, some run Bob (not all, or even most, but some) who dies to Bolt, and Huntmaster also dies to Bolt (unlike Abzan's 4 drop, Rhino). Like Delver, Shackles and Batterskull aren't great against them as they'll also play at least 1 Kommand. For boarding, I've found that Jace, Ashiok, Keranos are all good against them. They get you value, dodge removal and are just difficult to get rid of. Also, milling Tasigur to Ashiok is really annoying. Overall, the matchup is probably in their favor.
Bloom Titan: If you're running Moons and Terminates/Murderous Cut, this matchup is laughably in our favor. If you're running either of those without the other, the matchup is still good. If you're running neither, I'm very concerned about your deck construction. Hold up Spell Snare for an early Summer Bloom to stop them from doing stupid combo crap on you. Hold up Remand for their Titan if they do. Mana Leak CAN work in the early stages, but Remand is much more reliable. Having Terminate or Murderous Cut is even more reliable, but you have to do what you have to do. If they play Azusa, bolt her in response to them playing their first land (which is even better if they don't make a land drop before playing her). This will stop them from getting their extra drops. Be aware of Pact of Negation. Having multiple ways to kill/counter is great, though understandably they won't always have it. Thoughtseize is incredibly powerful against them, even though the core of their deck is made of lands. Yanking their Titan or Pact when they're not prepared for it can leave them with nothing to do, and picking an early Summer Bloom can just shut them down for several turns. TL;DR this matchup should be great unless you're hand/deck is awful.
Tron: Note that this is for RG, as I haven't played against U or UW enough to know, and they aren't really important enough to matter. With that in mind, we're kinda preboarded against them. Blood Moon is pretty decent, and if you're on the play it can shut off their turn 3 Tron->Karn. With a ton of countermagic, we're also pretty favored against their big stuff. However, don't let Karn resolve. We have no real way of dealing with him once he lands. If you don't have Blood Moons, don't durdle around. Their late game is WAY better than ours. Land a threat and hold up countermagic for their Karns and Wurmcoils and Nature's Claim (post board). I would say that if you land an early threat with a Moon, the game is in your favor. If you can't get one and just kind of screw around, it is decidedly in theirs.
Infect: With all of our removal, we have game against them pretty hard. Keeping a hand with early Bolt/Terminate is key. Be aware that Spell Snare can counter Apostle's Blessing, so holding one up when you cast a Bolt/Terminate is usually best. Blood Moon is surprisingly good against them, as it turns off Inkmoth Nexus and their Breeding Pools. While they can search for basics, their mana is significantly worse than ours in the face of a Blood Moon. If they have a quick hand, however, you can and will get run over. Overall, I think it's a a bit in our favor, but it can definitely swing either way.
Merfolk: They're a synergy deck, and killing their dudes disrupts that synergy. Bolt and Terminate are great, as is Cut. Shackles is actually pretty good against them (stealing a Lord at instant speed and trading with another is value. Who knew?) while Blood Moon is not (duh). Keeping a hand with early removal is way better than countermagic, especially with Kommand to destroy their Aether Vial. I'd put this matchup mostly in our favor, though sometimes they can just dump out dudes too quick for us to do anything about. Be aware of openings like this and plan your hands accordingly.
I can't talk about any other matchups, as I haven't played them, so hopefully that was helpful!
Edit: Updated OP with Danny's win date/list.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
The gentlemen over at Blue Moon / Shackles Control are now deep into splashing black. Basically, they're on the same deck as us. We should probably ask a MOD to see what's up with that, what can be done. I'm all for keeping things as constructive as possible. More people, more brains to work with. Two threads = lost potential.
See: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/tier-2-modern/511682-blue-moon-ur-blood-moon-shackles-control?page=23#c576
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
I think we need to keep discussion in one place so we aren't duplicating efforts and confusing forum goers. The discussion in Grixis Control is focused around the Grixis version of the thread. That is not the case in the Blue Moon thread: as recently as two pages ago, people are still discussing straight UR Moon decks. This reminds me of when people in the Junk thread were trying to discuss the recent success of Rhino lists, while people in the BG Rock/BGw Souls thread were also trying to discuss the same thing. The end result was confusion among users and separation of content.
There are three ways I think we could handle this:
1. Merge the threads. Grixis Control is basically a URB Moon thread anyway.
2. Keep the threads distinct but disallow any URB discussion here. Rename the Grixis Control thread accordingly so people know where to find it.
3. Archive both threads and make a new one ("Blue Moon Variants") so people aren't confused about what they are reading or where to go.
I'm not a big fan of #3 but could see good arguments for both 1 and 2. Thoughts?
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
This thread is not tier 2 yet. Then again, UR Moon is not tier 2 any more either. Both are getting moved to Developing Competitive on or around June 1st at this rate.
If we went with #2, what would the threads be?
1. "URx Moon: UR, Grixis, Temur, etc."
2. "Grixis (No Ultimatum) Control"
Or
1. "UR Moon"
2. "URx Moon: Temur and Grixis"
3. "Grixis (No Ultimatum) Control"
Or something else entirely.