If your metagame is like most paper metagames now, you can't ditch Bolt. There are too many decks it's good against: Affinity, Burn, Merfolk, Infect, Podless Pod, Jund, Abzan Liege, etc. I strongly discourage people from ditching Bolt unless you have some intimate knowledge of your local metagame and can reasonable conclude it's not a Bolt-friendly one. Most metagames, however, are going to be very friendly to Bolt and very hostile to decks that are using two mana removal spells to kill one mana threats and dorks.
If your metagame is like most paper metagames now, you can't ditch Bolt. There are too many decks it's good against: Affinity, Burn, Merfolk, Infect, Podless Pod, Jund, Abzan Liege, etc. I strongly discourage people from ditching Bolt unless you have some intimate knowledge of your local metagame and can reasonable conclude it's not a Bolt-friendly one. Most metagames, however, are going to be very friendly to Bolt and very hostile to decks that are using two mana removal spells to kill one mana threats and dorks.
I feel that the way this deck is positioned, a lot of times where Lightning Bolt would be good for other decks, we are simply taking their threats out of their hands. There are also better pieces of removal, such as Terminate, already packed in the deck. I don't necessarily recommend cutting ALL of the Lightning Bolts, but the weakest aspect of this deck is flooding out on your Lightning Bolt count. It's very rare that the deck has the utility to win a game when drawing 3+ Bolts in a game, because in order to use the powerful Tempo aspect, the deck needs to continually either disrupt the opponent's hand or advance its own board state. Lightning Bolt, since it only deals 3 damage and we simply have access to stronger removal right now (such as Murderous Cut) is not as powerful as you would think.
A list of cards that Lightning Bolt is not great against, all high up in the metagame:
Deceiver Exarch
Siege Rhino
Loxodon Smiter
Tarmogoyf
Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Additionally, Infect can pump past Lightning Bolt almost every time.
I highly recommend playing between 2 and 3 Lightning Bolt copies in this archetype, even though it is fine against certain decks in the metagame, we have plenty of answers for Affinity, for Burn (in fact, Murderous Cut all day every day over Lightning Bolt because of Eidolon of the Great Revel), for Merfolk and for Podless Pod.
Modern has never been this wide open. Lightning Bolt can do as much harm as it can do good, and you don't know until you sit down at the table.
Another possibility is to run 2 in the main deck and have the 3rd in the sideboard. Could be the right play, since we're basically talking about half the decks in Modern where it CAN be good, and there's another half where you never want to really see it.
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I think of Lightning Bolt in an elementary manner. Is it part of your win condition? Or, Is it part of your gamescape control? If you are an aggro deck, Bolt is aces - it can be both. However, Blitzkrieg is not an aggro/burn deck, so 3 damage, for what is most likely targeted creature control, at the cost of one card is unacceptable. Always bear in mind that the secret sauce for our victories is X-for-1. Lightning Bolt is decidedly 1-for-1. Thusly, I've removed it.
How can I say no to the grand poobah of all red spells?? As smashpacman stated, we can discard threats before they materialize - I'm 100% on board with that thinking, as I'm one of the mages that totally removed Lightning Bolt from my 75. But, sometimes, as Ktkenshinx observes, there will be times when we need ASAP removal, and 2-CMC options are too li'l too late....but, sideboards can wisely account for thoses circumstances with increased removal artillery: Pharika's Cure, Slaughter Pact OR late game sweepers like Drown in Sorrow or Damnation or Night of Souls' Betrayal. If lightning bolt isn't good enough for main deck, it's probably not good enough for sideboard. Sideboards are the breeding grounds for specified threat addressing & laser-focused solutions. Bolt??? That's a ham-and-eggers, everyman card. M'eh. Scoop of Chocolate - Scoop of Vanilla. The biggest potential vulnerability would be against U/R Pyro/Delver, in my humble.
Lightning Bolt is not part of my win con, per se, although it is nice to sometimes get that last 3 points of damage, but I think of it more as creature removal. Any sub for it I would really like to be 1 cmc. I could take out the Wear // Tear for Ratchet Bomb SB, that would help against tokens as well. That also means Godless Shrine can come out for...?
@danntev - I would drop it for Lavaclaw Reaches. It gives you some reach if your Bridges get hit (which they will game 2). Also depending on how much fuel you want/need for the Grim Lavamancer I would consider fetches. But with only 1 lavamancer and not running Gurmag Angler or anything else to use the pile of cards in your graveyard I would consider even dropping them to minimize the additional unnecessary damage.
Think of it this way: Each fetch land used with Grim Lavamancer is a 1 for 1 trade in opponents life. With only having the one main deck, I would cut all of the fetches because he is in a good position to take over the topdeck war in the long haul, and there should be enough fuel in the graveyard without the fetches.
Overall, my recommendation for you would be to take Raystacks manabase from the Phyrexian Obliterator version of the deck and just cut 1 swamp and 1 Lavaclaw Reaches, and swap a second Reaches for your Stensia Bloodhall from his 23 land base. OR up the fetch count to 6 to 8, and run the undead fish in the sideboard in place of the Nyxathid. Last option that I would suggest: If you like your mana base as it then you can literally just cut the Godless Shrine and run a second lavamancer in that slot. I think this might be enough justification for keeping the fetch lands in the mana base.
Also, how is Syphon Life working out for you? I've considered it here. When do you bring it in? Do you find yourself retracing it often or just hard casting it?
Good idea, I didn't even think about not needing the fetches anymore. I have not tested Syphon Life yet, but it would come in against burn. So now Darkblast out for? More creatures for when I side out bridge? Duress or Kolaghan's Command?
The Deuce: Back to Back FNM wins, folks! I faced Pyro/Delver, Burn, Merfolk in the first 3 rounds for a 3-0 start and an intentional draw in round 4 gave me a 1st place finish. Details to follow...
In 7 weeks, I've tanked my way into 4 first place paper tourney finishes, a 12th place finish in SCG Massachusetts State Championships (51 competitors), and a handful of top 3 finishes in small Local Game Store tourneys as well. Like Russell Crowe spinning in the gladiator ring, I look up at the gods and mods and bellow, "are you not entertained?"
Jesterblack, don't go! Don't go! Your write-ups and analysis will be sorely missed. If I'm hearing you correctly, you are thinking of semi-retiring Blitzkrieg because griefers at your FNM are bemoaning discard strategies. I do find that bewildering. Like you said, it smacks of a lack of understanding. Infect....Burn....Combo/Mastur-Solitaire playing decks are....better to face?? Firstly, I don't mean to insult any other deck - each has its place in the world of Magic. But, I don't get why someone would have a problem with Wrench Mind and Blightning in the absence of Ensnaring Bridge. It's ensnaring bridge that generally draws the most contempt, in my experience. If you're running Smash's list, there are no bridges. And, again, I don't mean to harsh on anyone that is running bridge in this forum I just know that my playtesting buddies rank the most flustering elements of my decks as follows: 1.) Bridge 2.) Rack 3.) 1st Turn: Iok/Thoughtseize 4.) Liliana 5.) Wrench/Blight. This isn't a weighting of power, just a measure of the groan-o-meter when these cards hit the board.
Again, I'm flummoxed. I have a ton of fun playing Blitzkrieg at my FNM, and my opponent's have never dogged out my deck. On the contrary, I get a ton of compliments. It's true that the deck doesn't get the most respect in the world (new and unknown decks never do), so a Jund player that dropped 2K on a deck or a Twin player that has read up every article about how a turn 4 win is only a Splinter Twin away will get visibly distressed when I win. But, that's only natural. Truth be told, we are legitimizing discard strategies again. It's been a looooong time since Hymn to Tourach ruled the mountain. I think that the shift towards our ascendancy is something worth celebrating, not poo-pooing. Those stupid poopooheads. Right, Jester?
As for Infernal Tutor? Yes, Yes, Yes!!! When you are hellbent, he will get you the "I Win" card. Like you said, Jester, the trick with this deck is to have the win condition pressure in hand the moment you've thrown the opponent in disarray. Press for the win! It's a failing of this deck to sometimes have gained hand and board advantage, but not have the means to put a clock above your opponent's head. Man can't win on discard alone. The final tinkerings of my deck is locking into place those win conditions so that they are never more than a draw away. Well....ideally
Tutor is an excellent example of this approach. Night's Whisper is soooo cool as well. Kolaghan's Command is noticeably missing from some lists, and I friggen' love this card. Phyrexian ObliteratorBatterskull and Thundermaw Hellkite are unstoppable forces. Geralf's Messenger, after 3 Lavaclaw Reaches, rounds out my 10 creatures in the deck. Take those 10 creatures and add the tutor, whisper, and the raise dead capability of 2 khommands and you start to see what I'm talking about: have a win condition ready to be implemented the moment after your lightning attack has spun the Joes into complete disarray.
So, here it is. A polished and settled final product of where I want to be in this meta.
I'm sure we'd all really like to see some of the other deck lists that are putting down tank tracks out there. Can you amend your report with a decklist that you ran, Jester? I was pleased to hear that you added Nihil Spellbomb to your SB.
Cool work, peep. If I may make a forum-oriented comment:
For those of us who enjoy reading the most recent developments on and off, it might be appreciable to see more decklists floating around. For example, it's been 3-4 times in the last tendays that I stop by, read and enjoy your work, and see Smash's list cited. But if you ask me, it's nowhere to be found. There.
PS. Boo the poopooheads
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MODERN Blue Lantern, UBx Tezzerator. OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Smash's most recently posted list is on page 8, I think. But! It is referenced in the primer on page 1. Raystack's discusses the top 8 finish and that he has opted to go with Gurmag Angler. I think it's the second deck listed.
It is listed below (as of its last iteration a week ago....though I think FrenchFryNinja convinced him to run a 4th Faithless Looting...or was that Jesterblack?). Also: I am always tinkering with the primer, and I have implemented a Top Trending Decks Section as the 2nd post of this thread. I'd like to post up decks that are demonstrating tournament success as well those that showcase evolutionary sparks of potential Tier 1 material.
Li'l sidenote on formatting assistance -- please private message me with solutions I'd love to know how I can do the featured cards at the top of the primer (format-wise) instead of the bottom. Also, Fat_Buddha was kicking around the idea of creating a banner for the thread. I told him to hold off and see if this deck is a "flash in the pan" or if it's the real deal with a demonstrable winning record that can also attract a fan base. The results are in. Wins abound and we have over 16,000 views. I think the only deck in this entire section that has more (per days of creation) is Podless Finks [which only figures: an entire T1 archetype is decimated, so shoguns are going to look for a new home]. Correction: 'look ma, no pod' has been elevated from 'deck creation' to 'developing competitive'...perhaps we aren't far behind?
Sincerest and most heartfelt thanks to all that have made us so successful, and an open invitation for new voices to be heard!
Well, not good results at my PPTQ. Decided to not SB Sowing Salt for Tron cause I hardly ever saw that deck, and it was my first match. 0-2, needless to say.
Round 2 was vs a Bant deck with Geist, Fleecemane Lions, Noble Hierearch etc. Won G1 pretty handily with an Ensnaring Bridge and THe Rack. Lost G2 quickly, had no removal. G3, very solid win with Nyxathid. He sided out his paths G2, and I never got a creature out. G3 went according to plan. He had his artifact removal which I let him keep (I sided out 4 racks and 2 bridges for 3 Nyxathid and 2 Ratchet Bomb. T3 Nyx did all the work.
Round 3 was... some BRG deck with Kitchen Finks, Eternal Witness, Coiling Oracle and some counters. Lost G1, although Ensnaring Bridge bought me quite a few turns until he cast Cryptic Command :(. G2 I made the STUPID mistake of rushing out a turn 3 Nyxathid, which he promptly bolted. I never recovered.
I like the deck, it does play quite a bit differently than monoB 8Rack. I think it has potential, and will continue to work it. Hopefully, my test group gets all the Tier 1 decks proxied soon, since we don't have much of a competitive scene, and I'll get more practice with it. I have tested the Syphon Life vs Burn a few times, and so far I like it over Sun Droplet. One less Smash to Smithereens target.
What about kolaghan's command as a one or 2 of? seems like it could provide a little safety net in case some one has a ton of removal while also still being very synergistic with the main deck plan.
Three posts above this one, for those of you looking for my most recent list, although...
The only changes that I have made to this list are:
+1 Faithless Looting (up to 4)
-1 Lightning Bolt (down to 2)
I am also considering cutting the Godless Shrine and the Wear & Tear, since it just doesn't come up enough to be relevant, although with MM2015 coming out and a reprint of both Leyline of Sanctity and Daybreak Coronet, I might wait to change this based on how many Bogles lists start popping up.
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I hear ya, Yankes77 on the Kolaghan's Command addition. But, it's a hard fit on an Ensnaring Bridge Build. Firstly, they gotta curve as low as possible. Secondly, they only have 1 real target to raise dead: grim lavamancer as opposed to the 'monster/tank' build which has a lot of targets.
I loved to hear about the 'transformative sideboard' success you found in your tourney, Dantevv! It is so sweet when they drop their creature kill and bring in their artifact kill only to find out that you curley shuffled in the opposite direction. You couple that with some effective sideboarding, and you pretty much have game 2 on a silver platter.
For newer readers to the thread: In the transformative sideboard approach, you represent bridges/racks in game 1, so the opponent thinks you're on an 8rack-variant build. In game 2, you lose all artifacts and bring in creatures to his surprise and chagrin. That said, I still like the idea of simply playing Shrieking Affliction over The Rack, so you don't have to lose that win condition. That way you can laugh at their carefully selected 'answer cards' of Ancient Grudge, Smash to Smithereens, Shattering Pulse, and Shatterstorm. Also, I prefer to run a few high curving Phyrexian Obliterator in the main deck in case it makes more sense to stomp than turtle.
@Baron_Sengir_007 - I hope I'm answering your question correctly here. The name of the game is disruption, not early damage. As good of an idea as swiftspear is, what she does is slow down the turn 1 play which almost invariably needs to be: Inquisition of Kozilek or Thoughtseize to disrupt their turn 1. Once we each start on T2 - the "Power discard suite" (as Raystacks calls it) kicks in. Then we 2 for 1 and strip their hand. This is similar to the idea of adding Young Pyromancer, it just slows down our discard plan too much. We have to head into that full tilt for optimal success. Once we get the game into top-deck mode we do pretty well. But we have to get there first.
The exception is when the T1 Faithless Looting can lead to a T2 Gurmag Angler (this requires 2 fetches and a looting in the opening hand) as in smash's build from what I can tell.
As far as Bob goes: There's 4 reasons I can think of, but due to his price tag I rarely consider him since he's usually a 4-of or none. First: Not running Bob is a "he doesn't fit" relic from the earlier days when the deck split from 8-rack - this is still logical if running Ensnaring Bridge, which some of the most successful versions do. Two, I do not want to topdeck Gurmag Angler and take 7 damage. Or 4 for an Obliterator. If just running Nyxathid then maybe, but that leads to point three: Where would he go? He might work in the Faithless Looting spot, sure. And it might be worth testing. The last reason that I can think of is that when running the more "lean" version of this deck (smash's build) there's simply not enough mana to cast more than 1 spell per turn. Maybe he's been tested, but those are the theoretical reasons I can think of.
//Break//
@smashpacman - is there a reason you don't run Damnation? Is it to be able to drop Pyroclasm on aggro decks (Affinity and Boggles) before they get off the ground? Is it too slow?
//Break//
All - has anyone considered Dash Hopes in the 2-drop slot?
FrenchFry hit the nail on the head there with the Gurmag Angler making things more difficult as far as damaging yourself for card advantage goes. Additionally, there are many games against more aggressive decks where you simply need to stabilize and proceed to win by attrition, and many times, this involves taking decent amounts of damage. Matchups such as Burn and Zoo can easily put you to a life total lower than 10 before you take control of the game. Life is a resource, and while Dark Confidant is the primary example of expending life for card advantage, the cost is generally too great in the current metagame.
@FrenchFryNinja
The reason that I don't run Damnation is twofold. First, once I slam a threat down, I don't want to be forced to remove it, as my threats are limited. Second, I only run 21 lands, and cannot consistently get the fourth land as much as I would like. While I do run Faithless Looting, finding a fourth land is actually something that I generally try to avoid doing, as it is rarely necessary unless I am on the Lavaclaw Reaches beatdown plan. I'm not particularly opposed to it, but I would want to add a 22nd land before playing the card. It is also not all that great against several decks in the format, especially with our wide variety of removal in generally any version of this deck. However, if BW Tokens and Bogles become Tier 1 decks again, then Damnation is probably the first card that I will revisit.
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Although I love dark confidant, I've never really considered him for Blitzkrieg - for all the reasons that FrenchFryNinja listed. The primary reason is that I'm not often hellbent and in need of cards before I feel the need to control the game. In other words, I don't really need to be drawing 2 cards on turn 3. I'm not in a damage race with my opponent. It's more of a disruption race. You can only cast so many cards per turn. But, If, If If....I really considered trying to overwhelm, dump hand, and deliver damage by an exceedingly meek 2/1 creature. Shoosh, I don't know. Maybe something silly like this:
INTRODUCING:
Another Example of a Deck that believes it can be better by smashing Bob into it
(kind of like adding treasure cruise to every deck you played last year)
Massive Course CorrectionNoooooope, it can't be done in a Blitzkrieg shell. The synergies of what we have are waaaay too tight. I thought by doing a Mishra's Bauble/Slaughter Pact/Faithless Looting I could keep the filtering/draw high while also keeping my CMC Low (and bauble can forecast your own draw to fetch a large spell out of the way on a bob activation). I couldn't get close to a 39 spell count. Failure of the Epic Variety.
Unlike Jund or B/G Rock (notorious users of Dark Confidant), we have no lifegain {courser of kruphix, kitchen finks, or scavenging ooze}. We have no mana accelerators (Noble Hierarch/Bird of Paradise) or 2-cmc drops that can win a game when unchecked (tarmogoyf). Instead, we have turn 2 answers that are absolute (terminate) or crippling (wrench mind). The average cost of my Blitzkrieg deck spells is higher than our counterparts. Lastly, we engage in a careful dance of attrition and the eventual implementation of overwhelming force in the guise of a large creature or rack scheme. Dark Confidant doesn't get us there significantly faster or more effectively than my choice for card drawing superiority: (1) main deck Night's Whisper {it's our Thoughtcast} and (1) Outpost Siege in the sideboard: I could use one extra card per turn starting on turn 5, not turn 3...and certainly not at the cost of life.
This isn't an invitation to try to use Dark Confidant, as we believe, by the simple virtue that we've never even discussed his presence, it to be a fool's errand. But, Baron_Sengir_007 brought it up, so I thought I'd kick around the idea. I'm glad you did, my man. When you go through an exercise in futility like this, it helps you better understand the dynamics of what you've got.
I liked the Post SB Nyxathid enough that I just ordered another one, and will be bumping my SB count to 4. Main deck land may be tweaked down to 22, maybe try an Infernal Tutor in place. I have slightly considered Dash Hopes before, but not sure how it would fit since I want an empty hand due to Ensnaring Bridge. If I was running a non bridge version though, I would definitely try it out as a 4 of. I may even in mine just to see. Also, I am back and forth on The Rack or Shrieking Affliction. I think I will try affliction for a while.
Hey guys! This is what I'm currently playing. I dropped Phyrexian Obliterator for the early pressure Gurmag Angler gives the build. I dropped the Lightning Bolt count to favor Faithless Looting. Both changes have smoothen the deck a lot. Delve gives value out of the graveyard, enabling me multiple plays a turn. Also, Looting gets rid of that often useless selective discard lategame and I can ditch lands thanks to Rakdos Carnarium. Gatekeeper of Malakir is a favourite of mine, I don't get to cast it a lot, but that kicker is beast backed up with bolt or terminate and in topdeck mode, facing a single creature. The rest of the deck is pretty usual around here haha^^
Regarding the sideboard. Shriekling Affliction comes in to dodge artifact hate. Dragon's Claw comes in against Burn, Pyroclasm against aggro, tokens, etc. Fulminator Mage helps against 3C decks, namely Abzan and Jund. Also, against Infect and those decks which Liliana becomes pretty useless against. Grafdigger's Cage is the last addition, it helps a lot against Collected Abzan/Podless Pod, though 3 may be too much.
With this last build I'm 3-0 against Twin, MB Rats and some weird 4C deck I'll keep testing and bring more feedback. Any thoughts are welcome ^^
Hey guys! This is what I'm currently playing. I dropped Phyrexian Obliterator for the early pressure Gurmag Angler gives the build. I dropped the Lightning Bolt count to favor Faithless Looting. Both changes have smoothen the deck a lot. Delve gives value out of the graveyard, enabling me multiple plays a turn. Also, Looting gets rid of that often useless selective discard lategame and I can ditch lands thanks to Rakdos Carnarium. Gatekeeper of Malakir is a favourite of mine, I don't get to cast it a lot, but that kicker is beast backed up with bolt or terminate and in topdeck mode, facing a single creature. The rest of the deck is pretty usual around here haha^^
Regarding the sideboard. Shriekling Affliction comes in to dodge artifact hate. Dragon's Claw comes in against Burn, Pyroclasm against aggro, tokens, etc. Fulminator Mage helps against 3C decks, namely Abzan and Jund. Also, against Infect and those decks which Liliana becomes pretty useless against. Graffdigger's Cage is the last addition, it helps a lot against Collected Abzan/Podless Pod, though 3 may be too much.
With this last build I'm 3-0 against Twin, MB Rats and some weird 4C deck I'll keep testing and bring more feedback. Any thoughts are welcome ^^
The Rakdos Carnariums are interesting. Any particular reason that you are using those over fetch lands?
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When I look at Acc95's deck, I see a synthesis. It's kind of like the accelerated deck style {smashpacman} with Gurmag Angler, Faithless Looting, and a low land count. But, it's also only running 4 fetch lands and it's opted for Kolaghan's Commands, the full 2-for-1 discard arsenal, a slight uptick in total creature count, and a slightly reduced rack count which has it following a more mid-game approach {raystack}. Shoosh, some sort of codification for these two distinct styles of decks might be helpful for the sake of discussion.....or, maybe they'll soon hybridize a bit more, kind of like what we're seeing here.
That said, I don't think it's really settled in it's synergies, and I wonder about some card choices. But, it's new and it's novel and I dig that!
Firstly, 20 lands is very low, and if you're going to run such a low count, then 3 lavaclaw reaches might be stretching it (you'll toss extra lands that can fire them up to faithless looting pretty conistently). Similarly, 20 lands is low when you're running bounce lands, rakdos carnarium.
Secondly, The Gatekeeper of Malakir. Hmmm...I can respect a pet card, but I wonder how he'll do in this meta? There are a lot of creature decks in Modern right now, and the creatures aren't all that differentiated: lotta swarm (goblin, merfolk, lingering souls), some persist (kitchen finks), some robots (affinity), some instant style creatures (manlands and flash creatures like Twin), and some decks that just don't care about a gatekeeper (combo and tron). For 3 I think I'd like to see you try Geralf's Messenger. He may be a better fit since you curve much lower than my build (ya ain't got no Obliterahs), and I think he's giving you a bit more oomph than the shirtless, sashed one.
Thirdly, Sideboard. I know it's a new deck, and you're still fluxing on the SB. I really dig the addition of Fulminator Mage since you can't quite afford the high cmc of sowing salt, and the mage gives you a fighting body. But, I wonder about running extra Rack/Shrieking Affliction style cards in the SB. What I've found is that the decks that I would bring those in against are better beaten with a Nyxathid.
Otherwise, thanks for coming back to share your new build, man....and, it's got a spitfire start with a 3-0 tourney finish. Always feels good! Keep chucking cards and keep us posted.
Actually: A bit of a realization regarding how the difference between the two deck styles can best be understood, for purposes of discussion, according to a pretty hard and fast distinction: Phyrexian Obliterator or Gurmag Angler. Coke or Pepsi. There really isn't much middle ground. So, you're either running an Obliterator build or an Angler build. I guess that was kind of obvious all along...
I know Gatekeeper isn't a star in the current meta, but he works fine at my lgs. Messenger is a better option imo, as he can be abused by the command, I 'll definitely give it a try. However, is always nice to kick Gatekeeper against someone who thinks he's got the upper hand after playing his topdecked hexproof creature ^^
Regarding the land count, I also think 3 Reaches is a bit too much. However, I haven't had a mana issue until now. Also, I haven't looked back at those 4 Marsh Flats since I dropped them, I guess the life loss was a bit too much to handle. The low curve of the build lets Carnarium shine, as I want to be able to cast more than 1 red spell per turn, but I believe 2 is the correct count due to bouncing and slowing my early game.
One question, is Anger of the gods worth it?? My sideboard is still in development and I'm looking for more options. Note: Affliction comes in for The rack, I don't mean to up the rack effects count, just laugh at their artifact hate. However, Nyxathid seems a more proactive choice and I like that, thanks for reminding me of him.
The fish or the panzer... The panzer or the fish?? All of the deck should curve to this decision. I prefer a painless and heavier build.
This is what I'm actually running (in cockatrice... The lilianas I got for rent... gone... =(((... and they are so expensive for now here where I live... If someone there find cheap lilianas and have money to buy 4, I can buy it =])
If your metagame is like most paper metagames now, you can't ditch Bolt. There are too many decks it's good against: Affinity, Burn, Merfolk, Infect, Podless Pod, Jund, Abzan Liege, etc. I strongly discourage people from ditching Bolt unless you have some intimate knowledge of your local metagame and can reasonable conclude it's not a Bolt-friendly one. Most metagames, however, are going to be very friendly to Bolt and very hostile to decks that are using two mana removal spells to kill one mana threats and dorks.
I feel that the way this deck is positioned, a lot of times where Lightning Bolt would be good for other decks, we are simply taking their threats out of their hands. There are also better pieces of removal, such as Terminate, already packed in the deck. I don't necessarily recommend cutting ALL of the Lightning Bolts, but the weakest aspect of this deck is flooding out on your Lightning Bolt count. It's very rare that the deck has the utility to win a game when drawing 3+ Bolts in a game, because in order to use the powerful Tempo aspect, the deck needs to continually either disrupt the opponent's hand or advance its own board state. Lightning Bolt, since it only deals 3 damage and we simply have access to stronger removal right now (such as Murderous Cut) is not as powerful as you would think.
A list of cards that Lightning Bolt is not great against, all high up in the metagame:
Deceiver Exarch
Siege Rhino
Loxodon Smiter
Tarmogoyf
Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Additionally, Infect can pump past Lightning Bolt almost every time.
I highly recommend playing between 2 and 3 Lightning Bolt copies in this archetype, even though it is fine against certain decks in the metagame, we have plenty of answers for Affinity, for Burn (in fact, Murderous Cut all day every day over Lightning Bolt because of Eidolon of the Great Revel), for Merfolk and for Podless Pod.
Modern has never been this wide open. Lightning Bolt can do as much harm as it can do good, and you don't know until you sit down at the table.
Another possibility is to run 2 in the main deck and have the 3rd in the sideboard. Could be the right play, since we're basically talking about half the decks in Modern where it CAN be good, and there's another half where you never want to really see it.
Standard: Temur Energy RUG
Pauper: Fireball Black B
Commander: Kaervek the Merciless BR
"Always Bolt the Bird."
How can I say no to the grand poobah of all red spells?? As smashpacman stated, we can discard threats before they materialize - I'm 100% on board with that thinking, as I'm one of the mages that totally removed Lightning Bolt from my 75. But, sometimes, as Ktkenshinx observes, there will be times when we need ASAP removal, and 2-CMC options are too li'l too late....but, sideboards can wisely account for thoses circumstances with increased removal artillery: Pharika's Cure, Slaughter Pact OR late game sweepers like Drown in Sorrow or Damnation or Night of Souls' Betrayal. If lightning bolt isn't good enough for main deck, it's probably not good enough for sideboard. Sideboards are the breeding grounds for specified threat addressing & laser-focused solutions. Bolt??? That's a ham-and-eggers, everyman card. M'eh. Scoop of Chocolate - Scoop of Vanilla. The biggest potential vulnerability would be against U/R Pyro/Delver, in my humble.
Think of it this way: Each fetch land used with Grim Lavamancer is a 1 for 1 trade in opponents life. With only having the one main deck, I would cut all of the fetches because he is in a good position to take over the topdeck war in the long haul, and there should be enough fuel in the graveyard without the fetches.
Overall, my recommendation for you would be to take Raystacks manabase from the Phyrexian Obliterator version of the deck and just cut 1 swamp and 1 Lavaclaw Reaches, and swap a second Reaches for your Stensia Bloodhall from his 23 land base. OR up the fetch count to 6 to 8, and run the undead fish in the sideboard in place of the Nyxathid. Last option that I would suggest: If you like your mana base as it then you can literally just cut the Godless Shrine and run a second lavamancer in that slot. I think this might be enough justification for keeping the fetch lands in the mana base.
Also, how is Syphon Life working out for you? I've considered it here. When do you bring it in? Do you find yourself retracing it often or just hard casting it?
Modern: Bogles // 8-Whack/Goblins // UW Titan // Hollow One // Affinity // Dredge
EDH: Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Atraxa, Praetor's Voice // Meren of Clan Nel Toth
In 7 weeks, I've tanked my way into 4 first place paper tourney finishes, a 12th place finish in SCG Massachusetts State Championships (51 competitors), and a handful of top 3 finishes in small Local Game Store tourneys as well. Like Russell Crowe spinning in the gladiator ring, I look up at the gods and mods and bellow, "are you not entertained?"
Again, I'm flummoxed. I have a ton of fun playing Blitzkrieg at my FNM, and my opponent's have never dogged out my deck. On the contrary, I get a ton of compliments. It's true that the deck doesn't get the most respect in the world (new and unknown decks never do), so a Jund player that dropped 2K on a deck or a Twin player that has read up every article about how a turn 4 win is only a Splinter Twin away will get visibly distressed when I win. But, that's only natural. Truth be told, we are legitimizing discard strategies again. It's been a looooong time since Hymn to Tourach ruled the mountain. I think that the shift towards our ascendancy is something worth celebrating, not poo-pooing. Those stupid poopooheads. Right, Jester?
As for Infernal Tutor? Yes, Yes, Yes!!! When you are hellbent, he will get you the "I Win" card. Like you said, Jester, the trick with this deck is to have the win condition pressure in hand the moment you've thrown the opponent in disarray. Press for the win! It's a failing of this deck to sometimes have gained hand and board advantage, but not have the means to put a clock above your opponent's head. Man can't win on discard alone. The final tinkerings of my deck is locking into place those win conditions so that they are never more than a draw away. Well....ideally
Tutor is an excellent example of this approach. Night's Whisper is soooo cool as well. Kolaghan's Command is noticeably missing from some lists, and I friggen' love this card. Phyrexian Obliterator Batterskull and Thundermaw Hellkite are unstoppable forces. Geralf's Messenger, after 3 Lavaclaw Reaches, rounds out my 10 creatures in the deck. Take those 10 creatures and add the tutor, whisper, and the raise dead capability of 2 khommands and you start to see what I'm talking about: have a win condition ready to be implemented the moment after your lightning attack has spun the Joes into complete disarray.
So, here it is. A polished and settled final product of where I want to be in this meta.
The Black Panzer Party
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
1 Batterskull
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
1 Geralf's Messenger
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Terminate
1 Lightning Bolt
2 Shrieking Affliction
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Blightning
4 Wrench Mind
2 Thoughtseize
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Infernal Tutor
1 Night's Whisper
4 Blood Crypt
4 Dragonskull Summit
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
2 Night of Souls' Betrayal
2 Slaughter Pact
2 Pharika's Cure
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Nyxathid
1 Damnation
1 Drown in Sorrow
1 Dreadbore
1 Outpost Siege
1 Sowing Salt
I'm sure we'd all really like to see some of the other deck lists that are putting down tank tracks out there. Can you amend your report with a decklist that you ran, Jester? I was pleased to hear that you added Nihil Spellbomb to your SB.
For those of us who enjoy reading the most recent developments on and off, it might be appreciable to see more decklists floating around. For example, it's been 3-4 times in the last tendays that I stop by, read and enjoy your work, and see Smash's list cited. But if you ask me, it's nowhere to be found. There.
PS. Boo the poopooheads
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Smash's most recently posted list is on page 8, I think. But! It is referenced in the primer on page 1. Raystack's discusses the top 8 finish and that he has opted to go with Gurmag Angler. I think it's the second deck listed.
Modern: Bogles // 8-Whack/Goblins // UW Titan // Hollow One // Affinity // Dredge
EDH: Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Atraxa, Praetor's Voice // Meren of Clan Nel Toth
Li'l sidenote on formatting assistance -- please private message me with solutions I'd love to know how I can do the featured cards at the top of the primer (format-wise) instead of the bottom. Also, Fat_Buddha was kicking around the idea of creating a banner for the thread. I told him to hold off and see if this deck is a "flash in the pan" or if it's the real deal with a demonstrable winning record that can also attract a fan base. The results are in. Wins abound and we have over 16,000 views. I think the only deck in this entire section that has more (per days of creation) is Podless Finks [which only figures: an entire T1 archetype is decimated, so shoguns are going to look for a new home]. Correction: 'look ma, no pod' has been elevated from 'deck creation' to 'developing competitive'...perhaps we aren't far behind?
Sincerest and most heartfelt thanks to all that have made us so successful, and an open invitation for new voices to be heard!
Shock and Awesome, by SmashPacMan
2 Nyxathid
4 The Rack
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Faithless Looting
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Terminate
4 Wrench Mind
3 Blightning
2 Murderous Cut
4 Blood Crypt
1 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
2 Lavaclaw Reaches
3 Dragon's Claw
1 Spellskite
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Rakdos Charm
2 Blood Moon
1 Wear & Tear
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Pyroclasm
Round 2 was vs a Bant deck with Geist, Fleecemane Lions, Noble Hierearch etc. Won G1 pretty handily with an Ensnaring Bridge and THe Rack. Lost G2 quickly, had no removal. G3, very solid win with Nyxathid. He sided out his paths G2, and I never got a creature out. G3 went according to plan. He had his artifact removal which I let him keep (I sided out 4 racks and 2 bridges for 3 Nyxathid and 2 Ratchet Bomb. T3 Nyx did all the work.
Round 3 was... some BRG deck with Kitchen Finks, Eternal Witness, Coiling Oracle and some counters. Lost G1, although Ensnaring Bridge bought me quite a few turns until he cast Cryptic Command :(. G2 I made the STUPID mistake of rushing out a turn 3 Nyxathid, which he promptly bolted. I never recovered.
1x Grim Lavamancer
1x Mogis, God of Slaughter
Planeswalker
4x Liliana of the Veil
Spells
4x Wrench Mind
4x Blightning
4x Terminate
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Lightning Bolt
4x Thoughtseize
4x The Rack
4x Ensnaring Bridge
Land
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
3x Blood Crypt
4x Dragonskull Summit
1x Lavaclaw Reaches
2x Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
5x Swamp
1x Stensia Bloodhall
3x Temple of Malice
3x Nyxathid
3x Syphon Life
3x Ratchet Bomb
3x Surgical Extraction
3x Duress
The 3 Duress were just to fill the slots.
I like the deck, it does play quite a bit differently than monoB 8Rack. I think it has potential, and will continue to work it. Hopefully, my test group gets all the Tier 1 decks proxied soon, since we don't have much of a competitive scene, and I'll get more practice with it. I have tested the Syphon Life vs Burn a few times, and so far I like it over Sun Droplet. One less Smash to Smithereens target.
Three posts above this one, for those of you looking for my most recent list, although...
The only changes that I have made to this list are:
+1 Faithless Looting (up to 4)
-1 Lightning Bolt (down to 2)
I am also considering cutting the Godless Shrine and the Wear & Tear, since it just doesn't come up enough to be relevant, although with MM2015 coming out and a reprint of both Leyline of Sanctity and Daybreak Coronet, I might wait to change this based on how many Bogles lists start popping up.
Standard: Temur Energy RUG
Pauper: Fireball Black B
Commander: Kaervek the Merciless BR
"Always Bolt the Bird."
I loved to hear about the 'transformative sideboard' success you found in your tourney, Dantevv! It is so sweet when they drop their creature kill and bring in their artifact kill only to find out that you curley shuffled in the opposite direction. You couple that with some effective sideboarding, and you pretty much have game 2 on a silver platter.
For newer readers to the thread: In the transformative sideboard approach, you represent bridges/racks in game 1, so the opponent thinks you're on an 8rack-variant build. In game 2, you lose all artifacts and bring in creatures to his surprise and chagrin. That said, I still like the idea of simply playing Shrieking Affliction over The Rack, so you don't have to lose that win condition. That way you can laugh at their carefully selected 'answer cards' of Ancient Grudge, Smash to Smithereens, Shattering Pulse, and Shatterstorm. Also, I prefer to run a few high curving Phyrexian Obliterator in the main deck in case it makes more sense to stomp than turtle.
The exception is when the T1 Faithless Looting can lead to a T2 Gurmag Angler (this requires 2 fetches and a looting in the opening hand) as in smash's build from what I can tell.
As far as Bob goes: There's 4 reasons I can think of, but due to his price tag I rarely consider him since he's usually a 4-of or none. First: Not running Bob is a "he doesn't fit" relic from the earlier days when the deck split from 8-rack - this is still logical if running Ensnaring Bridge, which some of the most successful versions do. Two, I do not want to topdeck Gurmag Angler and take 7 damage. Or 4 for an Obliterator. If just running Nyxathid then maybe, but that leads to point three: Where would he go? He might work in the Faithless Looting spot, sure. And it might be worth testing. The last reason that I can think of is that when running the more "lean" version of this deck (smash's build) there's simply not enough mana to cast more than 1 spell per turn. Maybe he's been tested, but those are the theoretical reasons I can think of.
//Break//
@smashpacman - is there a reason you don't run Damnation? Is it to be able to drop Pyroclasm on aggro decks (Affinity and Boggles) before they get off the ground? Is it too slow?
//Break//
All - has anyone considered Dash Hopes in the 2-drop slot?
Modern: Bogles // 8-Whack/Goblins // UW Titan // Hollow One // Affinity // Dredge
EDH: Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Atraxa, Praetor's Voice // Meren of Clan Nel Toth
FrenchFry hit the nail on the head there with the Gurmag Angler making things more difficult as far as damaging yourself for card advantage goes. Additionally, there are many games against more aggressive decks where you simply need to stabilize and proceed to win by attrition, and many times, this involves taking decent amounts of damage. Matchups such as Burn and Zoo can easily put you to a life total lower than 10 before you take control of the game. Life is a resource, and while Dark Confidant is the primary example of expending life for card advantage, the cost is generally too great in the current metagame.
@FrenchFryNinja
The reason that I don't run Damnation is twofold. First, once I slam a threat down, I don't want to be forced to remove it, as my threats are limited. Second, I only run 21 lands, and cannot consistently get the fourth land as much as I would like. While I do run Faithless Looting, finding a fourth land is actually something that I generally try to avoid doing, as it is rarely necessary unless I am on the Lavaclaw Reaches beatdown plan. I'm not particularly opposed to it, but I would want to add a 22nd land before playing the card. It is also not all that great against several decks in the format, especially with our wide variety of removal in generally any version of this deck. However, if BW Tokens and Bogles become Tier 1 decks again, then Damnation is probably the first card that I will revisit.
Standard: Temur Energy RUG
Pauper: Fireball Black B
Commander: Kaervek the Merciless BR
"Always Bolt the Bird."
3 Nyxathid
4 Dark Confidant
4 The Rack
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Faithless Looting
4 Mishra's Bauble
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Funeral Charm
3 Terminate
1 Slaughter Pact
3 Blightning
1 Raven's Crime
4 Swamp
4 Blood Crypt
4 Marsh Flats
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
2 Lavaclaw Reaches
2 Pharika's Cure
1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Blightning
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Duress
3 Pyroclasm
1 Darkblast
1 Geth's Verdict
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Engineered Explosives
Massive Course Correction Noooooope, it can't be done in a Blitzkrieg shell. The synergies of what we have are waaaay too tight. I thought by doing a Mishra's Bauble/Slaughter Pact/Faithless Looting I could keep the filtering/draw high while also keeping my CMC Low (and bauble can forecast your own draw to fetch a large spell out of the way on a bob activation). I couldn't get close to a 39 spell count. Failure of the Epic Variety.
Unlike Jund or B/G Rock (notorious users of Dark Confidant), we have no lifegain {courser of kruphix, kitchen finks, or scavenging ooze}. We have no mana accelerators (Noble Hierarch/Bird of Paradise) or 2-cmc drops that can win a game when unchecked (tarmogoyf). Instead, we have turn 2 answers that are absolute (terminate) or crippling (wrench mind). The average cost of my Blitzkrieg deck spells is higher than our counterparts. Lastly, we engage in a careful dance of attrition and the eventual implementation of overwhelming force in the guise of a large creature or rack scheme. Dark Confidant doesn't get us there significantly faster or more effectively than my choice for card drawing superiority: (1) main deck Night's Whisper {it's our Thoughtcast} and (1) Outpost Siege in the sideboard: I could use one extra card per turn starting on turn 5, not turn 3...and certainly not at the cost of life.
This isn't an invitation to try to use Dark Confidant, as we believe, by the simple virtue that we've never even discussed his presence, it to be a fool's errand. But, Baron_Sengir_007 brought it up, so I thought I'd kick around the idea. I'm glad you did, my man. When you go through an exercise in futility like this, it helps you better understand the dynamics of what you've got.
I liked the Post SB Nyxathid enough that I just ordered another one, and will be bumping my SB count to 4. Main deck land may be tweaked down to 22, maybe try an Infernal Tutor in place. I have slightly considered Dash Hopes before, but not sure how it would fit since I want an empty hand due to Ensnaring Bridge. If I was running a non bridge version though, I would definitely try it out as a 4 of. I may even in mine just to see. Also, I am back and forth on The Rack or Shrieking Affliction. I think I will try affliction for a while.
5 Swamp
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Blood Crypt
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Lavaclaw Reaches
2 Rakdos Carnarium
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Faithless Looting
3 Thoughtseize
3 The Rack
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Wrench Mind
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Blightning
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Gurmag Angler
3 Shriekling Affliction
3 Dragon's Claw
3 Pyroclasm
3 Fulminator Mage
3 Grafdigger's Cage
Hey guys! This is what I'm currently playing. I dropped Phyrexian Obliterator for the early pressure Gurmag Angler gives the build. I dropped the Lightning Bolt count to favor Faithless Looting. Both changes have smoothen the deck a lot. Delve gives value out of the graveyard, enabling me multiple plays a turn. Also, Looting gets rid of that often useless selective discard lategame and I can ditch lands thanks to Rakdos Carnarium. Gatekeeper of Malakir is a favourite of mine, I don't get to cast it a lot, but that kicker is beast backed up with bolt or terminate and in topdeck mode, facing a single creature. The rest of the deck is pretty usual around here haha^^
Regarding the sideboard. Shriekling Affliction comes in to dodge artifact hate. Dragon's Claw comes in against Burn, Pyroclasm against aggro, tokens, etc. Fulminator Mage helps against 3C decks, namely Abzan and Jund. Also, against Infect and those decks which Liliana becomes pretty useless against. Grafdigger's Cage is the last addition, it helps a lot against Collected Abzan/Podless Pod, though 3 may be too much.
With this last build I'm 3-0 against Twin, MB Rats and some weird 4C deck I'll keep testing and bring more feedback. Any thoughts are welcome ^^
Frontier: UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
The Rakdos Carnariums are interesting. Any particular reason that you are using those over fetch lands?
Standard: Temur Energy RUG
Pauper: Fireball Black B
Commander: Kaervek the Merciless BR
"Always Bolt the Bird."
That said, I don't think it's really settled in it's synergies, and I wonder about some card choices. But, it's new and it's novel and I dig that!
Firstly, 20 lands is very low, and if you're going to run such a low count, then 3 lavaclaw reaches might be stretching it (you'll toss extra lands that can fire them up to faithless looting pretty conistently). Similarly, 20 lands is low when you're running bounce lands, rakdos carnarium.
Secondly, The Gatekeeper of Malakir. Hmmm...I can respect a pet card, but I wonder how he'll do in this meta? There are a lot of creature decks in Modern right now, and the creatures aren't all that differentiated: lotta swarm (goblin, merfolk, lingering souls), some persist (kitchen finks), some robots (affinity), some instant style creatures (manlands and flash creatures like Twin), and some decks that just don't care about a gatekeeper (combo and tron). For 3 I think I'd like to see you try Geralf's Messenger. He may be a better fit since you curve much lower than my build (ya ain't got no Obliterahs), and I think he's giving you a bit more oomph than the shirtless, sashed one.
Thirdly, Sideboard. I know it's a new deck, and you're still fluxing on the SB. I really dig the addition of Fulminator Mage since you can't quite afford the high cmc of sowing salt, and the mage gives you a fighting body. But, I wonder about running extra Rack/Shrieking Affliction style cards in the SB. What I've found is that the decks that I would bring those in against are better beaten with a Nyxathid.
Otherwise, thanks for coming back to share your new build, man....and, it's got a spitfire start with a 3-0 tourney finish. Always feels good! Keep chucking cards and keep us posted.
Actually: A bit of a realization regarding how the difference between the two deck styles can best be understood, for purposes of discussion, according to a pretty hard and fast distinction: Phyrexian Obliterator or Gurmag Angler. Coke or Pepsi. There really isn't much middle ground. So, you're either running an Obliterator build or an Angler build. I guess that was kind of obvious all along...
Regarding the land count, I also think 3 Reaches is a bit too much. However, I haven't had a mana issue until now. Also, I haven't looked back at those 4 Marsh Flats since I dropped them, I guess the life loss was a bit too much to handle. The low curve of the build lets Carnarium shine, as I want to be able to cast more than 1 red spell per turn, but I believe 2 is the correct count due to bouncing and slowing my early game.
One question, is Anger of the gods worth it?? My sideboard is still in development and I'm looking for more options. Note: Affliction comes in for The rack, I don't mean to up the rack effects count, just laugh at their artifact hate. However, Nyxathid seems a more proactive choice and I like that, thanks for reminding me of him.
Frontier: UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
This is what I'm actually running (in cockatrice... The lilianas I got for rent... gone... =(((... and they are so expensive for now here where I live... If someone there find cheap lilianas and have money to buy 4, I can buy it =])
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
1 Batterskull
4 Shrieking Affliction
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Terminate
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Blightning
4 Wrench Mind
3 Thoughtseize
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Infernal Tutor
4 Blood Crypt
4 Dragonskull Summit
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Pharika's Cure
2 Nyxathid
2 Drown in Sorrow
1 Olivia Voldaren
2 Rakdos Charm
1 Sowing Salt