Thanks! Yeah it was a bad play that just happened to be the right line. I guess the point is, I really haven't found her attack/block requirement to be restricting at all. That was pretty much the only time I've had to pull all sorts of strings to use her.
She (along with Kalitas) also plays really well with Damnation
Thanks! Yeah it was a bad play that just happened to be the right line. I guess the point is, I really haven't found her attack/block requirement to be restricting at all. That was pretty much the only time I've had to pull all sorts of strings to use her.
She (along with Kalitas) also plays really well with Damnation
Yeah. I've only used the card a little in testing. So far my favorite move is to Fatal Push/Terminate Hazoret to get down to one card to attack into zero blockers.
Good to hear your voice again, Fusedotcore! So, you're without Blood Moon, eh? And, accordingly, considering a more traditional Blitzkrieg design? Is it tournament viable? Well, history has shown that the traditional scheme of....
Initial - you could cede ground in the early game amidst simple 1-for-1 disruption (discard/removal)
Progress - to 2-for-1 (discard)
Finally - rage back to capture game control with a beefcake bruiser - whilst keeping the opponent pinned under a rack effect.
....has worked best against U/W Control and Linear Combo. Let's take a look at the Tier 1 Deck rankings of MTGsalvation:
U/W Control
U/R Storm
R/G Titanshift
Grixis Death's Shadow
Burn
Colorless Eldrazi Tron
Affinity
The resurgence of U/W control is the most telling harbinger of our growing strength. And, appropriate deckbuilding could angle in on the weaknesses of its Tier 1 peers. To make clear my intentions, Phyrexian Obliterator. If you don't have Blood Moon, you do have the Obliterator. I totally respect the Demigod of Revenge tactic - perhaps it's better? But, for hassle free - non-graveyard dependent implementation of a house - he's a bully-titted bruiser.
You've thrown out some other cards to consider, but my build leans towards simply going bigger X-for-1 beefcakes. Lingering Souls/Grim Flayer play with the manabase too much. Nyxathid relies too much on heavy discard or facing a dump-down deck. This build allows for ghost quarter and lavaclaw reaches which I've always felt was underrated. Just a little taste of The Rack and Ensnaring Bridge along with filtering and alpha strike options. The synergies, and discard options for hand grooming, allow for some interesting development against varied opponents. This build will struggle against Tron - such the equalizer. But, the return of Wrench Mind against non-artifact based decks is über tasty.
So, this is a throwback. Vintage. Large, rolling tanks......
@Raystack:
Curious as to the Drown in Sorrow. Are you worried that Flaying Tendrils would exile some of your own guys? Because otherwise it seems better against Affinity because of the devoid and CoCo decks because it exiles Finks.
@fusedotcore:
Black/Red is a less greedy manabase and unless you're doing other stuff with the white, like Ajani Vengeant or sideboard cards, I don't think diluting the manabase is worth it just for Lingering Souls, and I personally don't think Souls is worth running just for the flashback. Same goes for Grim Flayer - even without Blood Moon, I just don't like diluting the manabase.
I think your deck would like Chandra, Torch of Defiance if you have her, or even Ob Nixilis Reignited would be nice, as the card advantage can be really helpful. Goblin Dark-dwellers is also fun, and even against graveyard hate is still a 4/4 Menace body, but it depends on how you like him as compared to Bedlam Reveler, as I think they compete for the same slot. Other than that, I really think at least one Dreadbore is nice mainboard, as Planeswalkers are getting fairly popular, at least here. And we generally don't have a huge amount of creatures to control the Planeswalkers, so having a spell (albeit a sorcery) to take care of a resolved PW on an empty board is nice.
Regarding Drown in Sorrow selection: if you view the Tier 1 only decks, the Scry 1 is superior to the Exile clause. However, Kefka, You are correct when you start to factor in G/W/x decks that involve Finks and Voice of Resurgence. That's also true when you consider Dredge decks.
Across a vast meta, I'd agree with you on Tendrils. In this build, I'm weighing the likelihood of seeing those decks vs. the likelihood that I'd scry a card to the bottom in a typical premier match up. Blitzkrieg generally runs a (2) halves concept of deck draw, so the scry under is somewhere around 50% of the time.
The (2) halves concept is 1/2 disruption and 1/2 threat.
Hello Blitzkriegers.
I would like to make a return from my short foray into Abzan for some FNM fun with BR Blitzkrieg.
Below is the deck I've put together but I believe after some playtesting I do need help. My main issue being that I sold my blood moons.
Card choice comments: Blood Moon: I unfortunately sold these and do not have the budget to reacquire them. I suppose my main question is, is there a point to play without them? Liliana of the Veil / Liliana, the Last hope: I was fortunate to have preordered LtLH when she was sub-10, and that is the only reason I have any to play with. I realise that LotV is key in so many black based decks, but again budget constraints. Lingering Souls: In lacking these above cards, I hope to make up with some Faithless Looting + souls value.
Potential inclusions: Pack Rat: I like the rat, and I feel like I could swap some removal for it perhaps. Grim Flayer: Instead of the Lingering Souls, I could splash green for some better 2 drop action. Nyxathid: Absolutely love this buddy, but a 3 mana 7/7 at most feels so pointless with 1 mana ~13/~13's in the format...
I have the feeling I might need to return to a more original blitzkrieg build, with Wrench Minds and Nyxathid. But again with the budget I might need to run something like Necrogen Mists or a bunch of Raven's Crime with a curve top of 3 mana.
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated!
magus of the moon is being reprinted. Its worse since its a creature, but might get more affordable for you.
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For that, I would go with the Rabblemaster/Pack Rat build, nicknamed Rat Moon. It was shown on Channel Fireball at one point and Saffron Olive also ran a build of it. I would consider that build to be about the closest to a Jund minus the green, closer to the midrange build of the deck.
Long time no see.
So, I've been traveling and been around the world for a while, and become a little bit unaware of the last Modern evolutions.
I would like to post my new BR list this evening (I don't remember cards by heart and now I cannot see them), which is a little bit... Prototype-ish, so to say.
So for now I would like to know how much blood moon is popular, because this version of the deck is kind of weak to it (SPOILERS: Phyrexian Obliterator).
And if there are ways of getting rid of such enchantments once they're in play (as B/R deck, that is.)
If you can give me a neat picture of this two situations (how much blood moon is popular in modern now and what are the tools we can use to get rid of it) I would be most grateful!
Stay tuned for the list! From what I noticed, performs almost evenly against Eldrazi Tron (45-50 in it's favour - I have a friend who plays the deck, so I had a way to test it), but it goes almost a matter of luck most of the time.
To be honest, at local events at least I don't see too many Blood Moons besides the one I drop. That being said, it may be growing in popularity and it does seem to be present at competitive events, or at least at the SCG events. Take my words with a grain of salt, though, as I am mainly a FNM player and I don't play any online.
As far as B/R ways of dealing with enchantments...you basically have to discard it before they play it. There is very little you can do against a resolved enchantment as there is no enchantment destruction for Modern in our colors. Engineered Explosives can get rid of up to 2 CMC enchantments (with only having B/R), and Ratchet Bomb can hit all cards of a certain CMC, but it would take several turns to tick up a Bomb for Blood Moons and the like.
Hey, I'm quite interested in this deck but more in a control deck than in a demigod or obliterator way. I mean a jund without green, some confidants, removal, discard, blood moon, liliana, chandra, pack rat...
To be honest, at local events at least I don't see too many Blood Moons besides the one I drop. That being said, it may be growing in popularity and it does seem to be present at competitive events, or at least at the SCG events. Take my words with a grain of salt, though, as I am mainly a FNM player and I don't play any online.
As far as B/R ways of dealing with enchantments...you basically have to discard it before they play it. There is very little you can do against a resolved enchantment as there is no enchantment destruction for Modern in our colors. Engineered Explosives can get rid of up to 2 CMC enchantments (with only having B/R), and Ratchet Bomb can hit all cards of a certain CMC, but it would take several turns to tick up a Bomb for Blood Moons and the like.
thank you for the answer!
So is better for me to keep maybe 1-2 surgical extraction mainboard so I can remove all the threats after the first discard, maybe.
Here's the list.
So, actually Pack Rat and Kalitas, traitor of Ghet are flex slots, I am testing them to see how do they perform. I didn't show the manabase because is budget and messy, but for now it works (and I already know what to buy, with time and patience.)
I find myself able to cast Phyrexian Obliterator on turn 4 most of the times, as in the manabase I keep only 1 Mountain and 2 copies Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. This just to give feedback about it's playability. I used to play 2 copies of Collective Brutality, but founded Distress more reliable as a 1-1 trade, as for in a way or another, I rarely come up with a 2-2 trade discarding a card with Brutality, and more often than not the discard of brutality misses in my matches which is rather painful. Pick the brain is also a filler I am toying with. I am open to suggestion of a better 2 drop or a 3 drop also. Liliana of the Veil and Chandra, Torch of Defiance are 1-of for budget reasons. Of course everything would be easier if the Pick the brain were Lilianas, but I can't really afford such expense.
I am also aware there are lots of silver bullets in the deck. that's because in my opinion, diversity may end up being better than redundancy, for psychological and tactical reasons. From one side, effects like Slaughter Games are less disruptive, from the other, different threats needs different answers.
That being said, I nevertheless use redundancy for my core cards, ensuring that I see them as often as possible (exept for Demigod of Revenge whom I saw maybe 3 times in 10 matches - which means nearly 30 games. /neverlucky.)
So, that's all!
If you have feedback, suggestions, questions about things, offers, or maybe you want to gift me 2 Liliana of the Veil, You are wellcome and I will be happy to answer, listen, read, or take your Liliana.
It's been performing pretty well for me the past few weeks, won 1st place every event I've entered with it!
I keep Kalitas main board because he's pretty relevant in my meta (lots of Burn), but you could easily push him to the side if he's not usually impactful. Also if you're running 2 or more Liliana otV, I strongly recommend 1 or 2 Hazoret. I only play at FNM so idk if she's seriously viable, but she's been fantastic for me and my lgs is relatively competitive (tiered decks). She's also just a blast to play with
Smashpacman has moved away from the Planeswalker heavy build and back to Demigod, but I'm still really digging it
I'm currently running my Extractions in the sideboard, but with heavy discard, I could see it being decent mainboard. So long as you are able to quickly figure out your opponent's deck archetype, I see it as being an alright idea.
But yeah, other than that, it would be helpful to see what you're thinking and we could assess from there. I do think that Blood Moon is certainly a large part of why this deck works so well (as opposed to just going Jund), but we get plenty of cards that Jund also gets that are quite nice at the moment, like Fatal Push, Kolaghan's Command, and the like.
Also, I have to say...as a new player to this archetype, I feel much more solid now that I finally have 3x Blackcleave Cliffs. Just having that land feels like it adds so much to the consistency of the deck as a 2 color deck, especially with several BB or RR cards, like Anger of the Gods or Liliana of the Veil.
The struggle that I've been having is finding the right balance for the rest of the deck to handle the variety of decks in my meta, to get to the point that I'm "in the game" enough for the top-end package to close it out.
The sideboard is another matter, but having a main deck of the correct ~27 1 and 2 cmc spells is proving a challenge. Thoughts?
Keiichi I like the ideas behind your list but I would consider trying a few of these cards:
Chandra, Flamecaller She doesn't exactly work great with Hazoret, but Hazoret being a 2 of means you won't always see a Hazoret. Also the interaction between Chandra's 0 to discard your hand to dig for more Demigod's seems pretty good. Chandra Flamecaller can also just put a pretty decent clock on your opponents when they are locked or semi-locked under a blood moon. Chandra can also be ramped into from a Torch of Defiance now so that seems pretty decent.
Anger of the Gods Damnation is fine as a 1 of but I would slightly cut down on the spot removal such as Dreadbore and Terminate to add some Angers. They will drastically help keep you in the games against aggro as well as helping your matchup against Dredge and various CoCo decks.
Dragonskull Summit I think this card is just a better choice than Smoldering Marsh You can fetch a Smoldering Marsh, but unless you already have 2 swamps in play the Smoldering Marsh is always coming into play tapped, whereas you could fetch the Blood Crypt and have a choice, I just see more upside of turn 2 playing a Dragonskull Summit untapped, since every other land allows Dragonskull Summit to enter untapped.
I really like the Liliana, the Last Hope in your list. Getting back the Demigod can get you so much value.
I appreciate your complements and suggestions vollick.
I played Chandra, Flamecaller as a one-of for several tournaments, but I was never really happy to see it in my hand. Unlike Demigod, it doesn't play well with an early Liliana of the Veil - which I do tend to rely on. In fact, I empty my hand to LotV so quickly in so many games I'm thinking of going up to three Hazorets to increase the liklihood of topdecking one in those situations. Interestingly, I've learned it's not worth it to rely on Demigod's effect enough to justify having more than the Liliana of the Veils (and rarely Thoughtseize) as a way to get them into the graveyard; it's still 5 hasty evasive damage. On balance, the fourth Demigod has proved more reliable as a finisher. I really don't want to go to five cards over four cmc.
Thanks for the advice on Anger of the Gods. I'll try to pick some up in the next few weeks and give them a try. The Dreadbores have overperformed for me, but I may have a planeswalker heavy meta.
I haven't been bitten by the five lands that only enter tapped as of yet; I've liked having the later game untapped aspect of Marshes quite a lot, and with eight Swamps it's never an issue getting that effect. On the rare occasion I haven't had two swamps when I wanted to fetch, I've always had the option of a Blood Crypt. If it becomes an issue, I'll take your advice and move toward Summits.
Liliana, the Last Hope has grown on me. Elves is common in my meta, and the +1 is awesome in that matchup. Her ultimate is also game-ending.
I've had quite a lot of trouble against RG Tron, even with the Blood Moons.
The struggle that I've been having is finding the right balance for the rest of the deck to handle the variety of decks in my meta, to get to the point that I'm "in the game" enough for the top-end package to close it out.
The sideboard is another matter, but having a main deck of the correct ~27 1 and 2 cmc spells is proving a challenge. Thoughts?
Ignoring the sideboard right now since that's secondary.
While Dejadal is correct in his assessment that I am back on Demigod of Revenge, this has not stopped me from playing quite a large number of Planeswalkers with them even still. The difference between my deck and your deck is that I've completely cut Lightning Bolt from the 75. I know it sounds insane, but I got really sick and tired of drawing it and having it feel subpar, only being good against aggressive decks like Affinity, Elves, and Goblins and sometimes pressuring Planeswalkers that the opponents control.
I've done fairly well with the deck since I cut Bolt, going 12-2 in rounds at FNMs and Monday Night events. Now, none of this is necessarily anything to write home about, because they're just FNMs. However, without Bolt, I was able to move some cards in the sideboard to the main deck, freeing up some sideboard slots to shore up more matchups while adding some supporting spells. Here's where I wound up:
From testing, I realized that all of the aggro matchups that Lightning Bolt was "helpful" in, Anger of the Gods would more often times win the game outright. Setting the opponent back by getting heavy removal on their little creatures on turn 3 is insanely powerful, especially in the aforementioned aggro decks. It also gives you a way to beat Dredge game 1 if you run into the deck.
With Jeskai decks on the rise, we already have game against them with Blood Moon and Demigod of Revenge. However, I threw a Boil into the sideboard because it can also help take a game over at instant speed. Trying to mess around with Fulminator Mage was just too slow against decks with a control plan, because the odds of us resolving a Kolaghan's Command to repeatedly recur the Fulminator Mage are very slim, and also very mana intensive. It also only wants to be a one-of in the sideboard, so there's not a lot of sideboard space expended.
Liliana of the Veil is more powerful now than it has been in awhile, because it is great against the Death's Shadow lists if their board is empty, and it is very strong against Scapeshift lists as well. Not to mention it's a great help in battles of attrition such as Skred Red and Jund. I stuck with three of her in the main deck, along with a pair of Liliana, the Last Hope. LTLH often times has a copy boarded out, unless the opponent has some kind of token generator or is a weak creature deck, like Bant Spirits.
Being back up to 4 Kolaghan's Command feels amazing, because Affinity never dies and having a lot of ways to answer that deck is critical. If you don't have them, you can lose in one turn. Also, not playing Bolt makes the Affinity matchup harder. I am currently considering going up to 3 copies of Fatal Push and trimming down a copy of LTLH, but for now, LTLH has done much more for me and is also backbreaking against decks like Affinity just like Fatal Push is. Sometimes though it's just nice to have the extra one-mana removal.
Since Bedlam Reveler has been shelved, as I don't think this is the deck he wants to see as much play in, Gurmag Angler as a one-of is back in. Bedlam Reveler's biggest problem was drawing too many top-heavy cards and being unable to cast him. With Gurmag Angler, and especially because I'm up to 9 fetch lands, it's easier to cast the beast on an early turn against aggressive decks, and even easier to cast him for cheap while leaving up removal as the game progresses. I'm glad the big ol' Zombie Fish is back in the deck. He has been far more consistent.
I would like to find room for a Hazoret the Fervent as well. I've been sold on this card for some time, I just don't own a copy. I also am not sure what would get trimmed. I'm really happy with how Gurmag Angler has performed, so maybe one of the LTLH copies gets shelved after all? Feels like it might be too many win conditions. I'm still working on that slot.
Having six discard spells in the main deck has been excellent. I board into Thoughtseize quite a bit, but I'm not sure if I would miss it if the sideboard copy wasn't there. It's on the chopping block, along with Boil, in case I need to move an LTLH to the sideboard for a Hazoret or another Fatal Push.
That's all I got for now. @Keiichi you're definitely on the right track. How good has Damnation been? Are there times you might have liked Anger of the Gods over it?
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@Keiichi you're definitely on the right track. How good has Damnation been? Are there times you might have liked Anger of the Gods over it?
Great information smashpacman. Despite the differences in our decks, thanks for validating my approach - I feel like this archetype has potential as a contender in Modern... just needs some refinement to accommodate some of the more disruptive archetypes one might encounter in various metas.
Honestly, I'm fairly new to the deck, and hadn't considered Anger of the Gods. Damnation has been... adequate for my meta, I suppose, particularly bringing in two more out of the side for decks like elves. At vollick's suggestion, though, I plan to try out two Anger over the Damnation and a Terminate in the main.
On Kolaghan's Command - I enjoyed playing the card for the past several months, as a two-of and a three-of at various times, but one of my friends at the card shop, whose opinion I value highly, made the point that it is far less powerful lacking Snapcaster Mage to recur it relative to decks like Grixis Shadow. As such I've dropped it and am researching (for lack of a better term) other options. I will admit that it often boiled down to simply a three mana shock with a vanilla discard tacked on. Maybe that was... hasty?
Hazorat has been fantastic as Demigod's sidekick, for me.
@SirFrancois If we hit a metagame where indestructible creatures were everywhere, I think we are still better off playing sacrifice effects. Tragic Slip requires multiple kill spells to become activated and we play a lot into an empty board.
@Keiichi I find myself sideboarding out some number of Kolaghan's Command in certain matchups, but I don't like the argument that your friend made that it is "less powerful without Snapcaster Mage." That logic can also be applied to any instant or sorcery in Magic. We are simply not a Blue deck, but that doesn't deter us from playing other strong spells that are theoretically stronger with Snapcaster Mage, such as Terminate. We simply apply it to a different use. Recurring Pia and Kiran Nalaar gives us many creatures for low amounts of investment. Discarding Demigod of Revenge and not finding a second copy means that we need to get it back sometimes. It's not just the recursion though, because the other effects are much more practical for us. Using one card to kill a creature and make the opponent discard is about as close to the definition of "Two-For-One" as we can get. Making opponents who have no cards in hand discard a card at the end of their draw step is incredibly powerful, which is why most discard spells are sorcery speed. Also, the hate cards become even more relevant against Affinity and Lantern Control for the shatter effect should we run into them in the main deck. It also hits random other artifacts, such as Oblivion Stone in Tron, Krark-Clan Ironworks in the KCI Combo deck, and sideboard cards such as Pithing Needle, Ensnaring Bridge, and Grafdigger's Cage. Of course, this doesn't mean you need to play FOUR copies like I do (Affinity is like a disease in my metagame), but I would never recommend going below two copies.
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With more 1 and 2 cmc spells than 3, and 4 Demigods, 2 Chandra Torch of Defiance, and 2 Hazoret, I've been comfortable at 21 lands. I'm upping my cmc 3, 4, and 5 spells a bit, and going to 23 lands this week. I'm expecting to be a bit flooded in some games.
Thanks everyone for your input and discussion.
Here's where I've ended up this week. I plan to run this at Thursday tournaments for a few weeks to see how it runs.
She (along with Kalitas) also plays really well with Damnation
Yeah. I've only used the card a little in testing. So far my favorite move is to Fatal Push/Terminate Hazoret to get down to one card to attack into zero blockers.
You've thrown out some other cards to consider, but my build leans towards simply going bigger X-for-1 beefcakes. Lingering Souls/Grim Flayer play with the manabase too much. Nyxathid relies too much on heavy discard or facing a dump-down deck. This build allows for ghost quarter and lavaclaw reaches which I've always felt was underrated. Just a little taste of The Rack and Ensnaring Bridge along with filtering and alpha strike options. The synergies, and discard options for hand grooming, allow for some interesting development against varied opponents. This build will struggle against Tron - such the equalizer. But, the return of Wrench Mind against non-artifact based decks is über tasty.
So, this is a throwback. Vintage. Large, rolling tanks......
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
2 Pack Rat
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 The Rack
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Terminate
2 Fatal Push
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Dreadbore
2 Drown in Sorrow
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Kolaghan's Command
9 Swamp
2 Blood Crypt
3 Dragonskull Summit
2 Lavaclaw Reaches
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Blood Moon
2 Night of Souls' Betrayal
2 Nyxathid
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Torpor Orb
1 Dreadbore
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Collective Brutality
1 Shatterstorm
1 Leyline of the Void
Just for the scry?
Curious as to the Drown in Sorrow. Are you worried that Flaying Tendrils would exile some of your own guys? Because otherwise it seems better against Affinity because of the devoid and CoCo decks because it exiles Finks.
@fusedotcore:
Black/Red is a less greedy manabase and unless you're doing other stuff with the white, like Ajani Vengeant or sideboard cards, I don't think diluting the manabase is worth it just for Lingering Souls, and I personally don't think Souls is worth running just for the flashback. Same goes for Grim Flayer - even without Blood Moon, I just don't like diluting the manabase.
I think your deck would like Chandra, Torch of Defiance if you have her, or even Ob Nixilis Reignited would be nice, as the card advantage can be really helpful. Goblin Dark-dwellers is also fun, and even against graveyard hate is still a 4/4 Menace body, but it depends on how you like him as compared to Bedlam Reveler, as I think they compete for the same slot. Other than that, I really think at least one Dreadbore is nice mainboard, as Planeswalkers are getting fairly popular, at least here. And we generally don't have a huge amount of creatures to control the Planeswalkers, so having a spell (albeit a sorcery) to take care of a resolved PW on an empty board is nice.
Across a vast meta, I'd agree with you on Tendrils. In this build, I'm weighing the likelihood of seeing those decks vs. the likelihood that I'd scry a card to the bottom in a typical premier match up. Blitzkrieg generally runs a (2) halves concept of deck draw, so the scry under is somewhere around 50% of the time.
The (2) halves concept is 1/2 disruption and 1/2 threat.
magus of the moon is being reprinted. Its worse since its a creature, but might get more affordable for you.
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
Long time no see.
So, I've been traveling and been around the world for a while, and become a little bit unaware of the last Modern evolutions.
I would like to post my new BR list this evening (I don't remember cards by heart and now I cannot see them), which is a little bit... Prototype-ish, so to say.
So for now I would like to know how much blood moon is popular, because this version of the deck is kind of weak to it (SPOILERS: Phyrexian Obliterator).
And if there are ways of getting rid of such enchantments once they're in play (as B/R deck, that is.)
If you can give me a neat picture of this two situations (how much blood moon is popular in modern now and what are the tools we can use to get rid of it) I would be most grateful!
Stay tuned for the list! From what I noticed, performs almost evenly against Eldrazi Tron (45-50 in it's favour - I have a friend who plays the deck, so I had a way to test it), but it goes almost a matter of luck most of the time.
Thanks for the patience and for reading!
Shanaxe
As far as B/R ways of dealing with enchantments...you basically have to discard it before they play it. There is very little you can do against a resolved enchantment as there is no enchantment destruction for Modern in our colors. Engineered Explosives can get rid of up to 2 CMC enchantments (with only having B/R), and Ratchet Bomb can hit all cards of a certain CMC, but it would take several turns to tick up a Bomb for Blood Moons and the like.
Something like this?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/28-09-17-gJA-br-control/
No confidants because of the higher curve, but Chandra/Nixilis, Temple, and Nights Whisper keep things moving pretty well.
thank you for the answer!
So is better for me to keep maybe 1-2 surgical extraction mainboard so I can remove all the threats after the first discard, maybe.
surgical extraction may come handy in other situations also.
Later tonight I will upload the list with card explanation (I don't have a clear sideboard tho)
Thank You!
EDIT: So, without further ado, here's my current list!
4x Phyrexian Obliterator
4x Demigod of Revenge
3x Pack Rat
3x Gifted Aetherborn
1x Liliana, Heretical Healer
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Faithless Looting
3x Terminate
2x Pick the Brain
2x Bontu's Last Reckoning
2x Distress
2x Kolaghan's Command
2x Lightning bolt
1x Dreadbore
1x Languish
1x Liliana of the Veil
1x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Lands
21x Lands
Here's the list.
So, actually Pack Rat and Kalitas, traitor of Ghet are flex slots, I am testing them to see how do they perform. I didn't show the manabase because is budget and messy, but for now it works (and I already know what to buy, with time and patience.)
I find myself able to cast Phyrexian Obliterator on turn 4 most of the times, as in the manabase I keep only 1 Mountain and 2 copies Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. This just to give feedback about it's playability. I used to play 2 copies of Collective Brutality, but founded Distress more reliable as a 1-1 trade, as for in a way or another, I rarely come up with a 2-2 trade discarding a card with Brutality, and more often than not the discard of brutality misses in my matches which is rather painful.
Pick the brain is also a filler I am toying with. I am open to suggestion of a better 2 drop or a 3 drop also.
Liliana of the Veil and Chandra, Torch of Defiance are 1-of for budget reasons. Of course everything would be easier if the Pick the brain were Lilianas, but I can't really afford such expense.
I am also aware there are lots of silver bullets in the deck. that's because in my opinion, diversity may end up being better than redundancy, for psychological and tactical reasons. From one side, effects like Slaughter Games are less disruptive, from the other, different threats needs different answers.
That being said, I nevertheless use redundancy for my core cards, ensuring that I see them as often as possible (exept for Demigod of Revenge whom I saw maybe 3 times in 10 matches - which means nearly 30 games. /neverlucky.)
So, that's all!
If you have feedback, suggestions, questions about things, offers, or maybe you want to gift me 2 Liliana of the Veil, You are wellcome and I will be happy to answer, listen, read, or take your Liliana.
Thank You for reading!
Shanaxe
I keep Kalitas main board because he's pretty relevant in my meta (lots of Burn), but you could easily push him to the side if he's not usually impactful. Also if you're running 2 or more Liliana otV, I strongly recommend 1 or 2 Hazoret. I only play at FNM so idk if she's seriously viable, but she's been fantastic for me and my lgs is relatively competitive (tiered decks). She's also just a blast to play with
Smashpacman has moved away from the Planeswalker heavy build and back to Demigod, but I'm still really digging it
But yeah, other than that, it would be helpful to see what you're thinking and we could assess from there. I do think that Blood Moon is certainly a large part of why this deck works so well (as opposed to just going Jund), but we get plenty of cards that Jund also gets that are quite nice at the moment, like Fatal Push, Kolaghan's Command, and the like.
Also, I have to say...as a new player to this archetype, I feel much more solid now that I finally have 3x Blackcleave Cliffs. Just having that land feels like it adds so much to the consistency of the deck as a 2 color deck, especially with several BB or RR cards, like Anger of the Gods or Liliana of the Veil.
I'm finding that Planeswalkers + Demigod (currently 3x Liliana of the Veil, 1x Liliana, the Last Hope, 2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance; 4x Demigod of Revenge), with 2x Hazoret the Fervent and 3x Blood Moon in a supporting role, is a strong top-end/end-game package. When I get to the point in a game where I'm playing these cards and have successfully controlled the game, I win.
The struggle that I've been having is finding the right balance for the rest of the deck to handle the variety of decks in my meta, to get to the point that I'm "in the game" enough for the top-end package to close it out.
The sideboard is another matter, but having a main deck of the correct ~27 1 and 2 cmc spells is proving a challenge. Thoughts?
Here's my deck:
4x Demigod of Revenge
2x Hazoret the Fervent
Planeswalkers:
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3x Liliana, of the Veil
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
Enchantments:
3x Blood Moon
4x Terminate
3x Fatal Push
4x Lightning Bolt
Sorceries:
1x Damnation
4x Dreadbore
4x Thoughtseize
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Blood Crypt
2x Smoldering Marsh
3x Canyon Slough
4x Bloodstained Mire
8x Swamp
Ignoring the sideboard right now since that's secondary.
Legacy - WRG Lands, WR Shortcake, RR Burn, UBRG Delver
Chandra, Flamecaller She doesn't exactly work great with Hazoret, but Hazoret being a 2 of means you won't always see a Hazoret. Also the interaction between Chandra's 0 to discard your hand to dig for more Demigod's seems pretty good. Chandra Flamecaller can also just put a pretty decent clock on your opponents when they are locked or semi-locked under a blood moon. Chandra can also be ramped into from a Torch of Defiance now so that seems pretty decent.
Anger of the Gods Damnation is fine as a 1 of but I would slightly cut down on the spot removal such as Dreadbore and Terminate to add some Angers. They will drastically help keep you in the games against aggro as well as helping your matchup against Dredge and various CoCo decks.
Dragonskull Summit I think this card is just a better choice than Smoldering Marsh You can fetch a Smoldering Marsh, but unless you already have 2 swamps in play the Smoldering Marsh is always coming into play tapped, whereas you could fetch the Blood Crypt and have a choice, I just see more upside of turn 2 playing a Dragonskull Summit untapped, since every other land allows Dragonskull Summit to enter untapped.
I really like the Liliana, the Last Hope in your list. Getting back the Demigod can get you so much value.
I played Chandra, Flamecaller as a one-of for several tournaments, but I was never really happy to see it in my hand. Unlike Demigod, it doesn't play well with an early Liliana of the Veil - which I do tend to rely on. In fact, I empty my hand to LotV so quickly in so many games I'm thinking of going up to three Hazorets to increase the liklihood of topdecking one in those situations. Interestingly, I've learned it's not worth it to rely on Demigod's effect enough to justify having more than the Liliana of the Veils (and rarely Thoughtseize) as a way to get them into the graveyard; it's still 5 hasty evasive damage. On balance, the fourth Demigod has proved more reliable as a finisher. I really don't want to go to five cards over four cmc.
Thanks for the advice on Anger of the Gods. I'll try to pick some up in the next few weeks and give them a try. The Dreadbores have overperformed for me, but I may have a planeswalker heavy meta.
I haven't been bitten by the five lands that only enter tapped as of yet; I've liked having the later game untapped aspect of Marshes quite a lot, and with eight Swamps it's never an issue getting that effect. On the rare occasion I haven't had two swamps when I wanted to fetch, I've always had the option of a Blood Crypt. If it becomes an issue, I'll take your advice and move toward Summits.
Liliana, the Last Hope has grown on me. Elves is common in my meta, and the +1 is awesome in that matchup. Her ultimate is also game-ending.
I've had quite a lot of trouble against RG Tron, even with the Blood Moons.
Legacy - WRG Lands, WR Shortcake, RR Burn, UBRG Delver
While Dejadal is correct in his assessment that I am back on Demigod of Revenge, this has not stopped me from playing quite a large number of Planeswalkers with them even still. The difference between my deck and your deck is that I've completely cut Lightning Bolt from the 75. I know it sounds insane, but I got really sick and tired of drawing it and having it feel subpar, only being good against aggressive decks like Affinity, Elves, and Goblins and sometimes pressuring Planeswalkers that the opponents control.
I've done fairly well with the deck since I cut Bolt, going 12-2 in rounds at FNMs and Monday Night events. Now, none of this is necessarily anything to write home about, because they're just FNMs. However, without Bolt, I was able to move some cards in the sideboard to the main deck, freeing up some sideboard slots to shore up more matchups while adding some supporting spells. Here's where I wound up:
4 Demigod of Revenge
1 Gurmag Angler
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
2 Fatal Push
4 Terminate
4 Kolaghan's Command
3 Anger of the Gods
4 Blood Moon
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
1 Graven Cairns
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Smoldering Marsh
5 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 To The Slaughter
1 Dreadbore
2 Hero's Downfall
1 Thoughtseize
1 Boil
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Collective Brutality
3 Rakdos Charm
1 Surgical Extraction
From testing, I realized that all of the aggro matchups that Lightning Bolt was "helpful" in, Anger of the Gods would more often times win the game outright. Setting the opponent back by getting heavy removal on their little creatures on turn 3 is insanely powerful, especially in the aforementioned aggro decks. It also gives you a way to beat Dredge game 1 if you run into the deck.
With Jeskai decks on the rise, we already have game against them with Blood Moon and Demigod of Revenge. However, I threw a Boil into the sideboard because it can also help take a game over at instant speed. Trying to mess around with Fulminator Mage was just too slow against decks with a control plan, because the odds of us resolving a Kolaghan's Command to repeatedly recur the Fulminator Mage are very slim, and also very mana intensive. It also only wants to be a one-of in the sideboard, so there's not a lot of sideboard space expended.
Liliana of the Veil is more powerful now than it has been in awhile, because it is great against the Death's Shadow lists if their board is empty, and it is very strong against Scapeshift lists as well. Not to mention it's a great help in battles of attrition such as Skred Red and Jund. I stuck with three of her in the main deck, along with a pair of Liliana, the Last Hope. LTLH often times has a copy boarded out, unless the opponent has some kind of token generator or is a weak creature deck, like Bant Spirits.
Being back up to 4 Kolaghan's Command feels amazing, because Affinity never dies and having a lot of ways to answer that deck is critical. If you don't have them, you can lose in one turn. Also, not playing Bolt makes the Affinity matchup harder. I am currently considering going up to 3 copies of Fatal Push and trimming down a copy of LTLH, but for now, LTLH has done much more for me and is also backbreaking against decks like Affinity just like Fatal Push is. Sometimes though it's just nice to have the extra one-mana removal.
Since Bedlam Reveler has been shelved, as I don't think this is the deck he wants to see as much play in, Gurmag Angler as a one-of is back in. Bedlam Reveler's biggest problem was drawing too many top-heavy cards and being unable to cast him. With Gurmag Angler, and especially because I'm up to 9 fetch lands, it's easier to cast the beast on an early turn against aggressive decks, and even easier to cast him for cheap while leaving up removal as the game progresses. I'm glad the big ol' Zombie Fish is back in the deck. He has been far more consistent.
I would like to find room for a Hazoret the Fervent as well. I've been sold on this card for some time, I just don't own a copy. I also am not sure what would get trimmed. I'm really happy with how Gurmag Angler has performed, so maybe one of the LTLH copies gets shelved after all? Feels like it might be too many win conditions. I'm still working on that slot.
Having six discard spells in the main deck has been excellent. I board into Thoughtseize quite a bit, but I'm not sure if I would miss it if the sideboard copy wasn't there. It's on the chopping block, along with Boil, in case I need to move an LTLH to the sideboard for a Hazoret or another Fatal Push.
That's all I got for now. @Keiichi you're definitely on the right track. How good has Damnation been? Are there times you might have liked Anger of the Gods over it?
Standard: Temur Energy RUG
Pauper: Fireball Black B
Commander: Kaervek the Merciless BR
"Always Bolt the Bird."
Great information smashpacman. Despite the differences in our decks, thanks for validating my approach - I feel like this archetype has potential as a contender in Modern... just needs some refinement to accommodate some of the more disruptive archetypes one might encounter in various metas.
Honestly, I'm fairly new to the deck, and hadn't considered Anger of the Gods. Damnation has been... adequate for my meta, I suppose, particularly bringing in two more out of the side for decks like elves. At vollick's suggestion, though, I plan to try out two Anger over the Damnation and a Terminate in the main.
On Kolaghan's Command - I enjoyed playing the card for the past several months, as a two-of and a three-of at various times, but one of my friends at the card shop, whose opinion I value highly, made the point that it is far less powerful lacking Snapcaster Mage to recur it relative to decks like Grixis Shadow. As such I've dropped it and am researching (for lack of a better term) other options. I will admit that it often boiled down to simply a three mana shock with a vanilla discard tacked on. Maybe that was... hasty?
Hazorat has been fantastic as Demigod's sidekick, for me.
Legacy - WRG Lands, WR Shortcake, RR Burn, UBRG Delver
@Keiichi I find myself sideboarding out some number of Kolaghan's Command in certain matchups, but I don't like the argument that your friend made that it is "less powerful without Snapcaster Mage." That logic can also be applied to any instant or sorcery in Magic. We are simply not a Blue deck, but that doesn't deter us from playing other strong spells that are theoretically stronger with Snapcaster Mage, such as Terminate. We simply apply it to a different use. Recurring Pia and Kiran Nalaar gives us many creatures for low amounts of investment. Discarding Demigod of Revenge and not finding a second copy means that we need to get it back sometimes. It's not just the recursion though, because the other effects are much more practical for us. Using one card to kill a creature and make the opponent discard is about as close to the definition of "Two-For-One" as we can get. Making opponents who have no cards in hand discard a card at the end of their draw step is incredibly powerful, which is why most discard spells are sorcery speed. Also, the hate cards become even more relevant against Affinity and Lantern Control for the shatter effect should we run into them in the main deck. It also hits random other artifacts, such as Oblivion Stone in Tron, Krark-Clan Ironworks in the KCI Combo deck, and sideboard cards such as Pithing Needle, Ensnaring Bridge, and Grafdigger's Cage. Of course, this doesn't mean you need to play FOUR copies like I do (Affinity is like a disease in my metagame), but I would never recommend going below two copies.
Standard: Temur Energy RUG
Pauper: Fireball Black B
Commander: Kaervek the Merciless BR
"Always Bolt the Bird."
Legacy - WRG Lands, WR Shortcake, RR Burn, UBRG Delver
Thanks everyone for your input and discussion.
Here's where I've ended up this week. I plan to run this at Thursday tournaments for a few weeks to see how it runs.
4x Demigod of Revenge
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2x Hazoret the Fervent
Planeswalker
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
Artifact
1x Batterskull
Enchantment
3x Blood Moon
Instant
2x Kolaghan's Command
3x Terminate
3x Fatal push
2x Anger of the Gods
3x Dreadbore
4x Thoughtseize
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
Land
4x Blood Crypt
2x Smoldering Marsh
3x Canyon Slough
2x Blackcleave Cliffs
4x Bloodstained Mire
8x Swamp
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Batterskull
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Blood Moon
1x Boil
1x Kolaghan's Command
3x Rakdos Charm
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Dreadbore
2x Collective Brutality
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
Legacy - WRG Lands, WR Shortcake, RR Burn, UBRG Delver