How can this deck (or any other BR deck for that matter) beat a T0 Leyline of Sanctity ?
For example in G2 against Ad Nauseam.
In a format where you fear Leyline of Sanctity, you play with one copy of Godless Shrine in the deck to be able to fetch for, and you play Wear // Tear in the sideboard.
Otherwise, you just try to beat them to death as fast as you can.
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Modern: BR Control BR Standard: Temur Energy RUG Pauper: Fireball Black B Commander: Kaervek the MercilessBR
Smashpacman, what's your most used mode of Rakdos Charm? When do you typically bring it in? I'm trying to judge its utility.
It looks quite versatile me. It could potentially be a game ender against decks that play very wide and against token decks!
I've also changed my deck (present above). I managed to get ahold of a Kalitas -- I removed 1 x Pack Rat to make room for him.
This weekend I'm going to be playing against a GW Elves deck that utilises Vizier of Remedies. Any thoughts as to what would be best to sideboard in/out for this match up? I'm thinking:
In: 2 Rakdos Charm, 2 Anger of the Gods, Grim Lavamancer (To shock creatures), Surgical Extraction and Extirpate (Remove Vizier, crucial elves, Coco), Damnation.
Out: Blood Moon (It would depend on what his mana-base consists of. Will assess this after first game). Maybe Chandra and Liliana.
Any thoughts as to what else I should sideboard out? I'm slightly stumped.
I gazed at the banner of Blitzkrieg, and remembered a simpler time. Used to be that a mage could cast 2-for-1 discard spells with impunity. So, I tried to do it again - A New Deck!!!. Put simply, it didn't work. Happens. The modern meta has just moved faster than this pace of play. As I wrote early in the Primer, the ethos of Blitzkrieg was:
Initial - you could cede ground in the early game amidst simple 1-for-1 disruption (discard/removal)
Progress - to 2-for-1 (discard)
Finally - rage back to capture game control with a beefcake bruiser - whilst keeping the opponent pinned under a rack effect.
Today? Top-tier competitive decks don't typically allow for that 'rage back'. Well, with every failure, there is a lesson to be learned. First, to be fair, it wasn't all bad news. I learned that few creatures will hold an Eldrazi deck at bay better than a Phyrexian Obliterator. 2-for-1 discard is still a natural bane to combo and control. And, a broad smattering of / bully-titted beaters offer vexing threats ( nyxathid is still a hoot against decks that dump down). Quick aside: As for the deckstyles being posted here today, I most appreciate the Galuxcrush's || MyDoppleganger's designs; use of small, ground'n'pound threats that demand an immediate answer from your opponent (goblin rabblemaster, dark confidant, pack rat).
Now, some random musings on my laboratory experiment...
Blightning may look and sound cool, but it's a big whiff. I have tried for Unburden to replace it, alongside (4) Wrench Mind. Unburden really didn't deliver as a 3-drop, despite the easy cycle. Although, I did like the double black since reliable red sourcing of mana was a little difficult due to the demands of...
Phyrexian Obliterator. 1 is o.k., but when you chain more than 1 of these tanks, a stalled board state is still mostly assured. But, when you're on the draw and you don't play any mana acceleration, it's too often a too-little-too-late answer.
Mana Requirements. Historically, I have fallen on the side of not using a lot of fetch lands - never saw the need when we're a 2 color deck with access to speed, shock, filter, and alike dual lands. And, that was going along pretty well, but Fatal Push changed all that. Back to the needs for fetches, and their associated pings of damage.
Otherwise, most of the deck is pretty self-explanatory. Gave it run across the battlefield...take these lessons for what they're worth, and keep firing out there.
@MyDoppleganger: As for sideboard advice, I wouldn't rely on blood moon to slow them down. Unless you can speed it into play (not possible without simian spirit guide or rituals), they'll set their board to play around it with ease. I would add a grafdigger's cage to your SB. I haven't been a fan of Rakdos Charm since the banning of Splinter Twin - the three modulars are too narrow for my liking. I'd love to see the use of Night of Souls' Betrayal, but the ground'n'pounder preclude its use. Janky 2-for-1 plays, theme of the post, are Arc Trail and Bonfire of the Damned. And, maybe swap one of those pithing needle for a phyrexian revoker. Good Luck!
I've been playing my list a lot more. So far I've placed in 4 of 6 local tournaments, with an overall record of 15-7-1. The only change I made is -1 Surgical Extraction +1 Pyroclasm in the sideboard.
The list beats grixis death shadow and delver handily, which is part of why my results are good. Because Blood Moon represents much of its disruption, it tends to do poorly vs creature heavy mono color decks like mono white hatebears and mono red goblins.
I've been playing my list a lot more. So far I've placed in 4 of 6 local tournaments, with an overall record of 15-7-1. The only change I made is -1 Surgical Extraction +1 Pyroclasm in the sideboard.
The list beats grixis delver handily, which is part of why my results are good. Because Blood Moon represents much of its disruption, it tends to do poorly vs creature heavy mono color decks like mono white hatebears and mono red goblins.
Hey there,
As I've said above, I'm going up against an Elves deck this weekend, so I am keen to see how it goes. I'll make sure to report back here. Did you continue to have difficulties with the creature heavy/mono-coloured decks after side-boarding? Did you remove the Blood Moons?
I've been playing my list a lot more. So far I've placed in 4 of 6 local tournaments, with an overall record of 15-7-1. The only change I made is -1 Surgical Extraction +1 Pyroclasm in the sideboard.
The list beats grixis delver handily, which is part of why my results are good. Because Blood Moon represents much of its disruption, it tends to do poorly vs creature heavy mono color decks like mono white hatebears and mono red goblins.
Hey there,
As I've said above, I'm going up against an Elves deck this weekend, so I am keen to see how it goes. I'll make sure to report back here. Did you continue to have difficulties with the creature heavy/mono-coloured decks after side-boarding? Did you remove the Blood Moons?
In games 2/3, obviously you side out all the moon effects vs mono red. Against hatebears I keep the magus and 1 moon in if they're running a lot of utility lands, but I'm not sure if that's correct or not.
Fast go-wide strategies seem to be the bad matchups for this build. (I lost badly to BW tokens too.) Game 1s are very difficult and the postboard ones hinge on drawing a sweeper in the early turns. It's why I went up to a 2nd Pyroclasm in the side.
I've been playing my list a lot more. So far I've placed in 4 of 6 local tournaments, with an overall record of 15-7-1. The only change I made is -1 Surgical Extraction +1 Pyroclasm in the sideboard.
The list beats grixis delver handily, which is part of why my results are good. Because Blood Moon represents much of its disruption, it tends to do poorly vs creature heavy mono color decks like mono white hatebears and mono red goblins.
Hey there,
As I've said above, I'm going up against an Elves deck this weekend, so I am keen to see how it goes. I'll make sure to report back here. Did you continue to have difficulties with the creature heavy/mono-coloured decks after side-boarding? Did you remove the Blood Moons?
In games 2/3, obviously you side out all the moon effects vs mono red. Against hatebears I keep the magus and 1 moon in if they're running a lot of utility lands, but I'm not sure if that's correct or not.
Fast go-wide strategies seem to be the bad matchups for this build. (I lost badly to BW tokens too.) Game 1s are very difficult and the postboard ones hinge on drawing a sweeper in the early turns. It's why I went up to a 2nd Pyroclasm in the side.
Good luck vs the elves!
Cool, I will see how I go this weekend. Cheers for the luck - I may very well need it!
my list is a page back. And with meta I feel k command is good but when I had 2 it was more to get a creature back. I honestly didn't care about the other modes unless opponent was in top deck and I played in their up keeep pitching. Push is just icing on cake after grinding a match and they land a shadow or a fat goyf
Do you have two slots available? Collective Brutality's three options are all super effective against Burn. If I had to pick another, I'd probably give a slot to Dragon Claw; it is triggered by the opponent's spells and some of your own spells, too!
How can this deck (or any other BR deck for that matter) beat a T0 Leyline of Sanctity ?
For example in G2 against Ad Nauseam.
I had this exact same issue when playing against a UW control deck. Game 2, Leyline of Sanctity came down on T0 and it was absolutely devastating. Smashpacman's suggestion seems to be on the money.
This version of the deck splashes for white in order to take advantage of white sideboard cards. Might be the way to go!
I've changed my thoughts regarding match ups with this deck. After additional play-testing via XMage, I have found creature heavy decks (Elves, Stompy) to be pretty straight forward to beat. It's largely a matter of being relentless with removal (Bolt/Push the dork, etc), and not letting anything they play sit. Stripping their CoCos (and similar engine-related cards) is also extremely effective. Continue this process until they fizzle and then cast Goblin Rabblemaster; the end will rapidly follow.
I think my most difficult match ups thus far are control decks. UW and UB control are especially brutal, although I have had some luck against Jeskai control. Snapcaster Mage is an absolute bastard -- snapping back Fatal Pushes and Cryptics ensures that our creatures are rarely able to stick to the battlefield. It seems like with side-boarding, it's necessary to Surgical to remove Snapcasters.
Anyone have any thoughts regarding how to beat control?
Straight out aggression coupled with plenty of discard?
Sounds viable. So, what would your sideboard plan be? Add in other discard like Collective Brutality?
I use 2 thoughtseize, 3 inquisition mainboard, for heavy control match ups, I bring in 2 collective brutality from the side. I also run asylum visitor in my main board (can't afford bobs so, yeah) so that helps somewhat with damage along with demigod.
got a question, has anybody tried using that BoB clone in the kaladesh block? the one which uses energy to draw 1 and lose 1 life and gains energy when it attacks? seems somewhat usable as a bob alternative
Hi All,
Here is the list I've been running for the last several fnm. Ive been having good success with it. Only getting runover by burn and skred. 3color decks have been a consistent win for me and aggro matchups have been solid as well. Added Hangarback for its synergy with P&KN also being another way to protect chandra and take over the game. It also helps vs lingering souls decks since i can bring back with K Command. Sorry im new to the site and dont know how to hyperlink the cards. Let me know if you have any suggestions
Rakdos Control
Legend
2 x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
Land
2 x Mountain
5 x Swamp
4 x Polluted Delta
2 x Blood Crypt
4 x Bloodstained Mire
2 x Arid Mesa
4 x Dragonskull Summit
Planeswalker
2 x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Enchantment
4 x Blood Moon
Creature
2 x Hangarback Walker
4 x Demigod of Revenge
Instant
3 x Terminate
3 x Kolaghan's Command
3 x Fatal Push
Sorcery
4 x Faithless Looting
4 x Inquisition of Kozilek
2 x Thoughtseize
2 x Damnation
2 x Sweltering Suns
1 x Dreadbore
Sideboard
2 x dragon's claw
2 x collective brutality
2 x Thoughtseize
3 x Molten Rain
2 x Extirpate
2 x Rakdos Charm
2 x Nihil Spellbomb
Straight out aggression coupled with plenty of discard?
Sounds viable. So, what would your sideboard plan be? Add in other discard like Collective Brutality?
I use 2 thoughtseize, 3 inquisition mainboard, for heavy control match ups, I bring in 2 collective brutality from the side. I also run asylum visitor in my main board (can't afford bobs so, yeah) so that helps somewhat with damage along with demigod.
got a question, has anybody tried using that BoB clone in the kaladesh block? the one which uses energy to draw 1 and lose 1 life and gains energy when it attacks? seems somewhat usable as a bob alternative
If you want a cheaper $ bob, Sin Prodder is a decent alternative maybe
Also, speaking general strategies; how do you folks play Pack Rat? Do you try to play it mid/late game when the coast is clear and try to sink everything into it? Are there particular matches that you side it out? I have been siding Pack Rat out quite often because much of the time I feel more comfortable bringing in additional discard (Collective Brutality, Kolaghan's Command) and later on relying on Goblin Rabblemaster to swing for the win when the board state permits. This has been working for me when I have been up against big mana/aggro decks, but perhaps there's another viable strategy via Pack Rat that I am missing out on.
Edit - So I've been playing against a couple of enchantment heavy decks (Enduring Ideal, Bant Choke), and I think it may be necessary to attempt to incorporate some enchantment hate that extends beyond a copy or two of Wear//Tear. I'm wondering what you guys think of splashing for green (by including an Overgrown Tomb) to allow for incorporation of Abrupt Decay in the sideboard? The great thing about Abrupt Decay is it is highly versatile and may not just be brought in to deal with pesky enchantments; it can obviously be used for additional removal against creatures/artifacts/planeswalkers. I'll probably do a bit of play-testing and see how it goes and I'll report back.
edit 2 - Crap, for some reason I had it in my head that Leyland of Sanctity was 3 CMC. Dang.
Hey everyone I've been following this thread a bit and decided to brew up a BR deck to take to a PPTQ this past Sunday. I started with the Skred shell as my base idea then went into black for push and Liliana. I placed 14th out of 99 players and had a blast. However, I'm looking for some feedback from players that have been on this type of deck longer than me. Thanks for any help!
07.16.17: modern pptq
- 14th out of 99 players, with 5-2 record overall.
RD 1: win 2-0, titanshift, on the play.
G1/G2: bitterblossom, blood moon, and liliana doing all the work both games. I could tell the OP was struggling to figure out how to play against my unknown deck.
RD 2: 2-1, grixis delver, on the play.
G1: I mull to 6. Early thoughtseize led me to think OP was on shadow. Ended up losing to double claim//fame on snapcaster mage and young Pyro beats. Two bitterblossom in play helped kill me too.
G2: I mull to 6. I took apart his hand with discard and liliana. Stabileized at one life and hazoret won the game with the shock and swing.
G3: discarded his hand and landed stormbreath which OP had no removal for and it closed the game quick.
RD 3: win 2-1, naya burn, on the play.
G1: Turn one thoughtseize revealed enough burn to kill me. I play it out for a few turns to see if he was on boros or naya and lose a few turns later.
G2: OP opens tapped stomping ground which I turn two fulminator off a SSG and blow up. OP is only able to get two mountains before I blood moon him. Next turn I cast hazoret and he conceads.
G3: Cast double collective brutality for all three modes, blood moon, and stormbreath for the win.
RD 4: win 2-0, grixis death's shadow, on the play.
G1: OP mulled to 5 and see only removal in his hand. I land liliana followed by hazoret for the win.
G2: I mulled to 6 on the draw with no hand disruption. OP plays cantrips and cycles but liliana, removal, and hazoret get the win again.
RD 5: lose 0-2, grixis death's shadow, on the draw.
G1: I didn't see any hand disruption, removal, or blood moon. Opener was land heavy and I should have mulled in retrospect. OP picked apart my hand and killed me with shadow.
G2: I was stuck on two lands while OP had no threats except liliana early on and I couldn't pressure. Finally resolved a bitterblossom but it was too late as his liliana had ultimate once and was still on the battlefield. OP won with ease and this was a lesson in making better keep/mull decisions.
RD 6: lose 0-2, eldrazi tron, on the play.
G1: I mulled to 6 and I didn't see any threats or enough removal this game. I was beat up by matter reshaper and a finishing reality smasher.
G2: I punted this game away hard. I blood moon, he casts ratchet bomb, I liliana, and he casts ballista for two while ticking bomb up to two. I have liliana and Kcommand in hand and move too fast shocking ballista and returning a hazoret from my graveyard to hand. He blows ratchet bomb next turn getting blood moon and liliana. I cast hazoret and discard a ssg to eat an attacking smasher which was neat. He gets another smasher and I have dismember in hand but no other cards to discard; I lose a few turns later. This was a lesson in slowing down and thinking through the turn better because I would most likely have won if I had just shocked ballista and shattered ratchet bomb in the early game.
RD 7: win 2-1, mardu burn, on the play.
G1: Pretty simple he has enough burn to kill me and we move to game two.
G2: This game ends up close but blood moon and liliana do good work to lock the game up. I stabilize at a low life total and precede to land hazoret for the win. Smacking for five a turn and pitching a card for two more is backbreaking.
G3: OP gets early guide which gives me two lands. I collective brutality for all modes to help stabilize. Blood moon and hazoret do all the heavy lifting yet again.
Summary: I had low expectations coming into the PPTQ because I threw the deck together the day before and had zero playtesting with it. However, I was very impressed with how the deck played out and the success I had. I think running a rogue brew threw a lot of OPs off when I turn two cast bitterblossom followed by turn tree blood moon. I think the deck has a solid death's shadow matchup with all the removal and blockers but the list definitely needs some tweaking moving forward.
The deck has a hard time finding threats and closing the game out sometimes. Having some type of card advantage is probably required. I also need to include a way to remove bitterblossom.
- I believe the deck needs another collective brutality in the 75 as life gain is very low.
- I never saw Kalitas in all my games so can't rate his effectiveness, but moving up to two is a consideration.
- Hazoret was an absolute house and isn't going anywhere but possibly up to three.
- Stormbreath was strong as always and has a home here.
- Chandra was very weak in the few games I cast her. I was expecting more out of her +1 but was too far behind for her to be helpful. I think she needs to be a two-of or a zero.
- Bitterblossom was strong but I'm not sure if four is the right number. I could see going down to two or three to make room for other additions.
- SSG was good when I had it in the opener. I think this should be either four or zero. If going to zero I will possibly add mind stone for ramp and to store a card.
Hey everyone I've been following this thread a bit and decided to brew up a BR deck to take to a PPTQ this past Sunday. I started with the Skred shell as my base idea then went into black for push and Liliana. I placed 14th out of 99 players and had a blast. However, I'm looking for some feedback from players that have been on this type of deck longer than me. Thanks for any help!
Impressive results!
Just a few comments:
To remove Bitterblossom, you might be able to include Wear//Tear as side-board tech. That would mean you'd have to include Godless Shrine as a fetch-able shock.
Your average creature CMC is pretty high. If you want to be able to generate more threats early, I recommend Goblin Rabblemaster. I've lost count of how many games Rabble has closed a game for me; if you have two Rabbles on the board, unless your opponent has a board wipe, they're going to have a bad time. It's insane how much value he generates.
I've also had similar grievances with Chandra - I often find myself siding her out to include something which is more 'immediate', such as another Collective Brutality, Kolaghan's Command, or whatever. I'm considering replacing Chandra with another copy of Kalitas in mainboard.
Maybe swap the Lost Legacies for Extirpates? Cheaper, similar effect.
Hey thanks for the feedback I really appreciate it! I constructed the deck with the idea of preying on the greedy mana bases right now, lock the hand with liliana, and land a hasty threat to end the game in a few turns before the OP can recover.
I'd like to keep some number of bitterblossom and stay in two colors for efficiency, so I'm leaning to EE or ratchet bomb. I originally had two ratchet bombs in the side over lost legacy but didn't want to be so cold to combo decks. I'm thinking it might be a MU to not dedicate more to, not sure yet.
I agree rabblemaster is crazy good and can end a game quickly from my skred days. I have a lot of three drops currently and he doesn't provide blockers. The curve is why I'm thinking of moving back to mindstone to cast fours and fives easier, plus it stores a card. I would miss out on potential turn 2 Blood moons and lilianas though.
Bitterblossom was included on paper for endless blockers against shadow.
I've considered bontu in the three drop slot to offset the life loss and give me something to do with mana when living off the top. The indestructible of hazoret really has me liking the Gods against the removal out there right now.
Chandra is definitely the first cut to the list. I've been mulling everything the last day or two and will have an update before fnm.
Looks like a good list to me. How do you typically play something like Dismember? Do you often lose 4 life to play it, or will you play it with 2 mana, losing 2 life? I guess it depends upon the board state. I'm just trying to discern its utility.
Regarding token generation, I've been running a version of my list with 3 Young Pyromancers in the place of 3 Pack Rats. It changes the focus of the game a little bit; control much of the board state, ward off big threats until one can play their own big threats. I'm relatively happy with its performance so far, although I'll have to do a lot more play-testing before I can decide to keep this iteration of the deck. Young Pyro isn't something that you really want to top-deck, and if you have few spells in hand, and don't have a Bob on the board (to draw more spells), Young Peezy can be dead weight. The best play line would probably be to get a Bob to stick and then land a Pyro.
I included two dismember in order to have 1cmc removal against tron since I can't turn on revolt reliably under blood moon. That said, I didn't cast it a lot over the event. I'd say it was an even split between casting for 1, and casting for 3 after top decking it. I think I should keep one and maybe change the other to a Terminate.
Urborg didn't do anything for me or my opponents in the event so I don't have strong feelings for it. I added one canyon slough to the list to test in place of a smoldering marsh. I think it should actually replace the Urborg instead but we will see when I'm able to get some more games in.
I've played a lot of Pyro in the past in grixis where you had access to tons of 1cmc and 0cmc spells to make her great. I'm not sure if br is the right shell for it, but if you can land it on a clear board with low resources I see it being great.
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In a format where you fear Leyline of Sanctity, you play with one copy of Godless Shrine in the deck to be able to fetch for, and you play Wear // Tear in the sideboard.
Otherwise, you just try to beat them to death as fast as you can.
Standard: Temur Energy RUG
Pauper: Fireball Black B
Commander: Kaervek the Merciless BR
"Always Bolt the Bird."
It looks quite versatile me. It could potentially be a game ender against decks that play very wide and against token decks!
I've also changed my deck (present above). I managed to get ahold of a Kalitas -- I removed 1 x Pack Rat to make room for him.
This weekend I'm going to be playing against a GW Elves deck that utilises Vizier of Remedies. Any thoughts as to what would be best to sideboard in/out for this match up? I'm thinking:
In: 2 Rakdos Charm, 2 Anger of the Gods, Grim Lavamancer (To shock creatures), Surgical Extraction and Extirpate (Remove Vizier, crucial elves, Coco), Damnation.
Out: Blood Moon (It would depend on what his mana-base consists of. Will assess this after first game). Maybe Chandra and Liliana.
Any thoughts as to what else I should sideboard out? I'm slightly stumped.
I gazed at the banner of Blitzkrieg, and remembered a simpler time. Used to be that a mage could cast 2-for-1 discard spells with impunity. So, I tried to do it again - A New Deck!!!. Put simply, it didn't work. Happens. The modern meta has just moved faster than this pace of play. As I wrote early in the Primer, the ethos of Blitzkrieg was:
Now, some random musings on my laboratory experiment...
Blightning may look and sound cool, but it's a big whiff. I have tried for Unburden to replace it, alongside (4) Wrench Mind. Unburden really didn't deliver as a 3-drop, despite the easy cycle. Although, I did like the double black since reliable red sourcing of mana was a little difficult due to the demands of...
Phyrexian Obliterator. 1 is o.k., but when you chain more than 1 of these tanks, a stalled board state is still mostly assured. But, when you're on the draw and you don't play any mana acceleration, it's too often a too-little-too-late answer.
Mana Requirements. Historically, I have fallen on the side of not using a lot of fetch lands - never saw the need when we're a 2 color deck with access to speed, shock, filter, and alike dual lands. And, that was going along pretty well, but Fatal Push changed all that. Back to the needs for fetches, and their associated pings of damage.
Otherwise, most of the deck is pretty self-explanatory. Gave it run across the battlefield...take these lessons for what they're worth, and keep firing out there.
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
1 Nyxathid
1 Pack Rat
1 Batterskull
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Shrieking Affliction
4 Terminate
2 Fatal Push
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Dreadbore
1 Drown in Sorrow
1 Sign in Blood
2 Unburden
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Kolaghan's Command
9 Swamp
2 Blood Crypt
3 Dragonskull Summit
2 Lavaclaw Reaches
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Blood Moon
2 Night of Souls' Betrayal
2 Nyxathid
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Torpor Orb
1 Dreadbore
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Languish
1 Shatterstorm
1 Leyline of the Void
@MyDoppleganger: As for sideboard advice, I wouldn't rely on blood moon to slow them down. Unless you can speed it into play (not possible without simian spirit guide or rituals), they'll set their board to play around it with ease. I would add a grafdigger's cage to your SB. I haven't been a fan of Rakdos Charm since the banning of Splinter Twin - the three modulars are too narrow for my liking. I'd love to see the use of Night of Souls' Betrayal, but the ground'n'pounder preclude its use. Janky 2-for-1 plays, theme of the post, are Arc Trail and Bonfire of the Damned. And, maybe swap one of those pithing needle for a phyrexian revoker. Good Luck!
The list beats grixis death shadow and delver handily, which is part of why my results are good. Because Blood Moon represents much of its disruption, it tends to do poorly vs creature heavy mono color decks like mono white hatebears and mono red goblins.
Hey there,
As I've said above, I'm going up against an Elves deck this weekend, so I am keen to see how it goes. I'll make sure to report back here. Did you continue to have difficulties with the creature heavy/mono-coloured decks after side-boarding? Did you remove the Blood Moons?
In games 2/3, obviously you side out all the moon effects vs mono red. Against hatebears I keep the magus and 1 moon in if they're running a lot of utility lands, but I'm not sure if that's correct or not.
Fast go-wide strategies seem to be the bad matchups for this build. (I lost badly to BW tokens too.) Game 1s are very difficult and the postboard ones hinge on drawing a sweeper in the early turns. It's why I went up to a 2nd Pyroclasm in the side.
Good luck vs the elves!
Cool, I will see how I go this weekend. Cheers for the luck - I may very well need it!
Do you find the single K Command to be sufficient? Do you have a link to your list?
3 eternal scourge
2 pack rat
3 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Wurmcoil engine
ARTIFACT
2 Batterskull
4 relic of progenitis
INSTANTS
3 Fatal Push
2 terminate
SORCERIES
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 dreadbore
2 anger of the gods
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 chandra, torch of defiance
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Blood Crypt
1 marsh flats
2 mountain
3 smoldering marsh
10 swamp
3 dragons's claw
3 fulimimator mage
2 surgical extraction
1 collective brutality
2 damnation
3 thoutseize
1 shattering spree
Dragon's Claw
Collective Brutality
Gifted Aetherborn
I definitely like Brutality, but it's between dragon's claw and the aetherborn that I can't decide between.
Modern:
BR Control
Grixis Bloo
EDH:
Food Chain Prossh
Land Wipe Maelstrom Wanderer
Selvala, Hearth of the Wilds Eldrazi
I had this exact same issue when playing against a UW control deck. Game 2, Leyline of Sanctity came down on T0 and it was absolutely devastating. Smashpacman's suggestion seems to be on the money.
This version of the deck splashes for white in order to take advantage of white sideboard cards. Might be the way to go!
I've changed my thoughts regarding match ups with this deck. After additional play-testing via XMage, I have found creature heavy decks (Elves, Stompy) to be pretty straight forward to beat. It's largely a matter of being relentless with removal (Bolt/Push the dork, etc), and not letting anything they play sit. Stripping their CoCos (and similar engine-related cards) is also extremely effective. Continue this process until they fizzle and then cast Goblin Rabblemaster; the end will rapidly follow.
I think my most difficult match ups thus far are control decks. UW and UB control are especially brutal, although I have had some luck against Jeskai control. Snapcaster Mage is an absolute bastard -- snapping back Fatal Pushes and Cryptics ensures that our creatures are rarely able to stick to the battlefield. It seems like with side-boarding, it's necessary to Surgical to remove Snapcasters.
Anyone have any thoughts regarding how to beat control?
Sounds viable. So, what would your sideboard plan be? Add in other discard like Collective Brutality?
I use 2 thoughtseize, 3 inquisition mainboard, for heavy control match ups, I bring in 2 collective brutality from the side. I also run asylum visitor in my main board (can't afford bobs so, yeah) so that helps somewhat with damage along with demigod.
got a question, has anybody tried using that BoB clone in the kaladesh block? the one which uses energy to draw 1 and lose 1 life and gains energy when it attacks? seems somewhat usable as a bob alternative
Here is the list I've been running for the last several fnm. Ive been having good success with it. Only getting runover by burn and skred. 3color decks have been a consistent win for me and aggro matchups have been solid as well. Added Hangarback for its synergy with P&KN also being another way to protect chandra and take over the game. It also helps vs lingering souls decks since i can bring back with K Command. Sorry im new to the site and dont know how to hyperlink the cards. Let me know if you have any suggestions
Rakdos Control
Legend
2 x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
Land
2 x Mountain
5 x Swamp
4 x Polluted Delta
2 x Blood Crypt
4 x Bloodstained Mire
2 x Arid Mesa
4 x Dragonskull Summit
Planeswalker
2 x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Enchantment
4 x Blood Moon
Creature
2 x Hangarback Walker
4 x Demigod of Revenge
Instant
3 x Terminate
3 x Kolaghan's Command
3 x Fatal Push
Sorcery
4 x Faithless Looting
4 x Inquisition of Kozilek
2 x Thoughtseize
2 x Damnation
2 x Sweltering Suns
1 x Dreadbore
Sideboard
2 x dragon's claw
2 x collective brutality
2 x Thoughtseize
3 x Molten Rain
2 x Extirpate
2 x Rakdos Charm
2 x Nihil Spellbomb
If you want a cheaper $ bob, Sin Prodder is a decent alternative maybe
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
Not too shabby!
Also, speaking general strategies; how do you folks play Pack Rat? Do you try to play it mid/late game when the coast is clear and try to sink everything into it? Are there particular matches that you side it out? I have been siding Pack Rat out quite often because much of the time I feel more comfortable bringing in additional discard (Collective Brutality, Kolaghan's Command) and later on relying on Goblin Rabblemaster to swing for the win when the board state permits. This has been working for me when I have been up against big mana/aggro decks, but perhaps there's another viable strategy via Pack Rat that I am missing out on.
Edit - So I've been playing against a couple of enchantment heavy decks (Enduring Ideal, Bant Choke), and I think it may be necessary to attempt to incorporate some enchantment hate that extends beyond a copy or two of Wear//Tear. I'm wondering what you guys think of splashing for green (by including an Overgrown Tomb) to allow for incorporation of Abrupt Decay in the sideboard? The great thing about Abrupt Decay is it is highly versatile and may not just be brought in to deal with pesky enchantments; it can obviously be used for additional removal against creatures/artifacts/planeswalkers. I'll probably do a bit of play-testing and see how it goes and I'll report back.
edit 2 - Crap, for some reason I had it in my head that Leyland of Sanctity was 3 CMC. Dang.
3x Thoughtseize
2x Collective Brutality
1x Dreadbore
1x Anger of the Gods
Instant
3x Fatal Push
2x Terminate
2x Dismember
3x Kolaghan's Command
Enchantment
4x Bitterblossom
4x Blood Moon
Planeswalker
4x Liliana of the Veil
1x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Creature
2x Hazoret the Fervent
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2x Simian Spirit Guide
2x Stormbreath Dragon
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Marsh Flats
2x Polluted Delta
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
2x Smoldering Marsh
1x Blood Crypt
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Graven Cairns
5x Swamp
1x Mountain
2x Anger of the Gods
1x By Force
1x Damnation
4x Fulminator Mage
3x Leyline of the Void
2x Lost Legacy
2x Surgical Extraction
07.16.17: modern pptq
- 14th out of 99 players, with 5-2 record overall.
RD 1: win 2-0, titanshift, on the play.
G1/G2: bitterblossom, blood moon, and liliana doing all the work both games. I could tell the OP was struggling to figure out how to play against my unknown deck.
RD 2: 2-1, grixis delver, on the play.
G1: I mull to 6. Early thoughtseize led me to think OP was on shadow. Ended up losing to double claim//fame on snapcaster mage and young Pyro beats. Two bitterblossom in play helped kill me too.
G2: I mull to 6. I took apart his hand with discard and liliana. Stabileized at one life and hazoret won the game with the shock and swing.
G3: discarded his hand and landed stormbreath which OP had no removal for and it closed the game quick.
RD 3: win 2-1, naya burn, on the play.
G1: Turn one thoughtseize revealed enough burn to kill me. I play it out for a few turns to see if he was on boros or naya and lose a few turns later.
G2: OP opens tapped stomping ground which I turn two fulminator off a SSG and blow up. OP is only able to get two mountains before I blood moon him. Next turn I cast hazoret and he conceads.
G3: Cast double collective brutality for all three modes, blood moon, and stormbreath for the win.
RD 4: win 2-0, grixis death's shadow, on the play.
G1: OP mulled to 5 and see only removal in his hand. I land liliana followed by hazoret for the win.
G2: I mulled to 6 on the draw with no hand disruption. OP plays cantrips and cycles but liliana, removal, and hazoret get the win again.
RD 5: lose 0-2, grixis death's shadow, on the draw.
G1: I didn't see any hand disruption, removal, or blood moon. Opener was land heavy and I should have mulled in retrospect. OP picked apart my hand and killed me with shadow.
G2: I was stuck on two lands while OP had no threats except liliana early on and I couldn't pressure. Finally resolved a bitterblossom but it was too late as his liliana had ultimate once and was still on the battlefield. OP won with ease and this was a lesson in making better keep/mull decisions.
RD 6: lose 0-2, eldrazi tron, on the play.
G1: I mulled to 6 and I didn't see any threats or enough removal this game. I was beat up by matter reshaper and a finishing reality smasher.
G2: I punted this game away hard. I blood moon, he casts ratchet bomb, I liliana, and he casts ballista for two while ticking bomb up to two. I have liliana and Kcommand in hand and move too fast shocking ballista and returning a hazoret from my graveyard to hand. He blows ratchet bomb next turn getting blood moon and liliana. I cast hazoret and discard a ssg to eat an attacking smasher which was neat. He gets another smasher and I have dismember in hand but no other cards to discard; I lose a few turns later. This was a lesson in slowing down and thinking through the turn better because I would most likely have won if I had just shocked ballista and shattered ratchet bomb in the early game.
RD 7: win 2-1, mardu burn, on the play.
G1: Pretty simple he has enough burn to kill me and we move to game two.
G2: This game ends up close but blood moon and liliana do good work to lock the game up. I stabilize at a low life total and precede to land hazoret for the win. Smacking for five a turn and pitching a card for two more is backbreaking.
G3: OP gets early guide which gives me two lands. I collective brutality for all modes to help stabilize. Blood moon and hazoret do all the heavy lifting yet again.
Summary: I had low expectations coming into the PPTQ because I threw the deck together the day before and had zero playtesting with it. However, I was very impressed with how the deck played out and the success I had. I think running a rogue brew threw a lot of OPs off when I turn two cast bitterblossom followed by turn tree blood moon. I think the deck has a solid death's shadow matchup with all the removal and blockers but the list definitely needs some tweaking moving forward.
The deck has a hard time finding threats and closing the game out sometimes. Having some type of card advantage is probably required. I also need to include a way to remove bitterblossom.
- I believe the deck needs another collective brutality in the 75 as life gain is very low.
- I never saw Kalitas in all my games so can't rate his effectiveness, but moving up to two is a consideration.
- Hazoret was an absolute house and isn't going anywhere but possibly up to three.
- Stormbreath was strong as always and has a home here.
- Chandra was very weak in the few games I cast her. I was expecting more out of her +1 but was too far behind for her to be helpful. I think she needs to be a two-of or a zero.
- Bitterblossom was strong but I'm not sure if four is the right number. I could see going down to two or three to make room for other additions.
- SSG was good when I had it in the opener. I think this should be either four or zero. If going to zero I will possibly add mind stone for ramp and to store a card.
Impressive results!
Just a few comments:
To remove Bitterblossom, you might be able to include Wear//Tear as side-board tech. That would mean you'd have to include Godless Shrine as a fetch-able shock.
Your average creature CMC is pretty high. If you want to be able to generate more threats early, I recommend Goblin Rabblemaster. I've lost count of how many games Rabble has closed a game for me; if you have two Rabbles on the board, unless your opponent has a board wipe, they're going to have a bad time. It's insane how much value he generates.
I've also had similar grievances with Chandra - I often find myself siding her out to include something which is more 'immediate', such as another Collective Brutality, Kolaghan's Command, or whatever. I'm considering replacing Chandra with another copy of Kalitas in mainboard.
Maybe swap the Lost Legacies for Extirpates? Cheaper, similar effect.
I'd like to keep some number of bitterblossom and stay in two colors for efficiency, so I'm leaning to EE or ratchet bomb. I originally had two ratchet bombs in the side over lost legacy but didn't want to be so cold to combo decks. I'm thinking it might be a MU to not dedicate more to, not sure yet.
I agree rabblemaster is crazy good and can end a game quickly from my skred days. I have a lot of three drops currently and he doesn't provide blockers. The curve is why I'm thinking of moving back to mindstone to cast fours and fives easier, plus it stores a card. I would miss out on potential turn 2 Blood moons and lilianas though.
Bitterblossom was included on paper for endless blockers against shadow.
I've considered bontu in the three drop slot to offset the life loss and give me something to do with mana when living off the top. The indestructible of hazoret really has me liking the Gods against the removal out there right now.
Chandra is definitely the first cut to the list. I've been mulling everything the last day or two and will have an update before fnm.
3 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
1 Dreadbore
1 Anger of the gods
Instant
3 Fatal Push
2 Terminate
2 Dismember
3 Kolaghan’s Command
Enchantment
4 Bitterblossom
4 Blood moon
Planeswalker
4 Liliana of the Veil
Creature
3 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Marsh Flats
2 Polluted Delta
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Smoldering Marsh
1 Blood Crypt
1 Canyon Slough
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Graven Cairns
5 Swamp
1 Mountain
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Collective Brutality
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Damnation
3 Leyline of the Void
1 By Force
This is what I am considering moving forward. There is still an argument for switching SSG to mind stone or talisman of indulgence.
Regarding token generation, I've been running a version of my list with 3 Young Pyromancers in the place of 3 Pack Rats. It changes the focus of the game a little bit; control much of the board state, ward off big threats until one can play their own big threats. I'm relatively happy with its performance so far, although I'll have to do a lot more play-testing before I can decide to keep this iteration of the deck. Young Pyro isn't something that you really want to top-deck, and if you have few spells in hand, and don't have a Bob on the board (to draw more spells), Young Peezy can be dead weight. The best play line would probably be to get a Bob to stick and then land a Pyro.
Urborg didn't do anything for me or my opponents in the event so I don't have strong feelings for it. I added one canyon slough to the list to test in place of a smoldering marsh. I think it should actually replace the Urborg instead but we will see when I'm able to get some more games in.
I've played a lot of Pyro in the past in grixis where you had access to tons of 1cmc and 0cmc spells to make her great. I'm not sure if br is the right shell for it, but if you can land it on a clear board with low resources I see it being great.