I've been playing around with the idea of a Rogue deck. My FNM meta is pretty random, and it's not what I would call highly competitive in terms of decklists. I'm the only one running anything T1 or T2. I wanted something a little different to play, so this is what I've come up with. I made this deck with cards I already own.
@spooky wrote an article about budget rogues in legacy which should be easy to port to modern. I don't have the url for the article anymore, but I'll look for it for you. I want to port my rogues deck myself, maybe we can work together
I would say that Frogtosser Banneret isn't warranted in this deck because of how you have it set up currently with any of the high costing rogue/goblin spells having alternative costs. Reducing the number of Frogtosser Banneret, and increasing cards, or redistributing them like Deathcult Rogue in the deck, or any unblockable type card that has great value could easily increase consistency on getting your prowl costs achieved. Adding cards that make your already unblockable low drops unblockable is redundant, and could lead to some dead draws. Last note, on Doom Blade since you gain no real plus from destroying creatures you could just run something like Unmake since you will have that additional mana from the prowl costs.
I forgot about Invisible Stalker, although I don't actually own any (which is why they aren't on my list). He would definitely have a place on the list. Cold-Eyed Selkie, in my opinion, is pretty weak without something like Spreading Seas. I think Deathcult Rogue fits much better in the 3CMC slot.
I'm game either way. I'd rather go U/B, but I didn't have an Rogues in my collection that would be worth running other than a possible Looter il-Kor. I didn't add that one to the list because I didn't like the discard requirement. Here are a few options for Rogue-based card draw:
Yeah, I was a bit iffy about the Commando because of the UU in the cost, and the Noggle, like you said, isn't good without the Banneret. Sygg would be especially great with Stinkdrinker. Per your original post, I agree that a 4-of Banneret might be overdoing it. As for Unmake, if we take the U/B route, BBB is a cost that might cause problems. Originally, I was looking at Disfigure for removal, but I think there might be better options available. I'd have to do some testing, especially since this is a homebrew deck.
I've been playing Mono-B Rogues casually for awhile and I have never been let down by 4 Earwig Squad and 4 Dismember. Frogtosser Banneret allows you to prowl in your Earwigs on the cheap and haste is great. 4 Earwigs may seem like a lot, but it's by far your most threatening stand-alone card and it almost always costs 3. I think you're going a little heavy on the hand disruption; 3-5 cards should give you enough disruption without undermining your aggro. Also I think Deathcult Rogue is just worse than Inkfathom Infiltrator. A card that I have also tried with some success is Rathi Trapper. Hope this helped
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Blue
You value knowledge, logic, and deceit. You love to pursue wisdom but also to manipulate and deceive. At your best, you are brilliant and progressive. At your worst, you are treacherous and cold. Your symbol is a water droplet. Your enemies are green and red.
this will ne my starting point. The lands are like that because that is what I have. The only things I do not have here are the syggs, the 1 watery grave. Once i acquire them, i'll sleeve this up and test
What about looking at some of the ways to get creatures back from the graveyard. Immortal Servitude comes to mind. I like to be able to get around sweepers and we basically die to all sweepers.
But I've always felt like this deck fundementally makes you want to overextend by putting a lot of inexpensive creatures onto the field. I think you need away around pyroclasm.
To me, overextending is a play call, not a deckbuilding call. Whether you should overextend or not depends on the game state, and whether you've got mana open for a counter, or if you've recently ripped a sweeper from the hand. This was also the reason i was trying to put more card draw into the deck. That being said, what did you have in mind regarding getting creatures back? Legacy had unearth, dunno what modern has yet.
edit: servitude as a 1-of shouldn't hurt a mono-b build, but bbb might be restrictive for a u/b build. Also, you would need 5 mana to get enough value from it, which may be a tall order for a deck with 22 lands.
this will ne my starting point. The lands are like that because that is what I have. The only things I do not have here are the syggs, the 1 watery grave. Once i acquire them, i'll sleeve this up and test
This list looks similar to the one I've started working on. I do agree that Frogtosser Banneret might not be necessary due to our low mana costs, but it's great at eating removal that might be directed at other creatures. I'm torn between Inquisition and Noggin Whack; sure, the Inquisition is faster, but Whack can hit more both in terms of card type and number of cards. I think that lots of playtesting is needed, but I'm looking forward to sleeving this up for FNM. My manabase is just a little different since I own 4 Watery Grave. I'm also going to be running one copy of Sunken Ruins.
EDIT: I know the thread is MonoB, but even the OP posted that he was thinking about splashing Blue already.
The problem with this deck is it's not a Rogue deck; it's a Faerie deck. There are some good options available within the realm of Glen Elendra, but I don't think a full-on Faerie deck is what we're looking for. I will certainly keep Bitterblossom and Quickling in mind, but I want to keep this Rogues and not Faeries-Some-of-Which-are-Rogues.
The problem with this deck is it's not a Rogue deck; it's a Faerie deck. There are some good options available within the realm of Glen Elendra, but I don't think a full-on Faerie deck is what we're looking for. I will certainly keep Bitterblossom and Quickling in mind, but I want to keep this Rogues and not Faeries-Some-of-Which-are-Rogues.
All of them are rogues excpets for Spellstutter Sprite, which acts as a Counterspell, and Scion of Oona, which grants protection and a massive pump to all your rogues. Before dismissing it, give it a proxy test at least bro!
The manabase couldn't be more smooth, and all your dudes got evasion, you got 8 dudes that provide permanent pumps, 12 dudes that provide protection, idk, just think about it ;).
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In Lorwyn's brief evenings, the sun pauses at the horizon long enough for a certain species of violet to bloom with the fragrance of mischief.
The problem with this deck is it's not a Rogue deck; it's a Faerie deck. There are some good options available within the realm of Glen Elendra, but I don't think a full-on Faerie deck is what we're looking for. I will certainly keep Bitterblossom and Quickling in mind, but I want to keep this Rogues and not Faeries-Some-of-Which-are-Rogues.
All of them are rogues excpets for Spellstutter Sprite, which acts as a Counterspell, and Scion of Oona, which grants protection and a massive pump to all your rogues. Before dismissing it, give it a proxy test at least bro!
The manabase couldn't be more smooth, and all your dudes got evasion, you got 8 dudes that provide permanent pumps, 12 dudes that provide protection, idk, just think about it ;).
I've played Faeries, and I didn't like it. Faeries are certainly strong, but I'm looking for something different. I want to have fun with Prowl and Rogues as a tribe. While there's certainly nothing wrong with your list as a Faerie deck, it's not the type of deck I'm looking for.
UB Faeries don't run more than 10/12 Creatures plus bitterblossom, the rest is removal and counterspells, so its quite different than faeries. But it's ok, I will proxy it myself (don't have vials) and see how it goes, looks like fun. Sorry that I couldn't contribute to your thread. Good luck!
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In Lorwyn's brief evenings, the sun pauses at the horizon long enough for a certain species of violet to bloom with the fragrance of mischief.
I've played with noggin whack, and the thing about it is it competes for the 2 slot with a lot of the other cards. Blackguard, prowler, banneret, even stinkdrinker wants to be played turn 2. IoK, even duress in a pinch, works better with the deck. You have only to disrupt answers enough to get there.
On a side note, I feel from playtesting that 26 creatures is too much. I'm thinking of dropping 1 or 2 for spell pierces.
I was really meaning that because of the low power level of the Rogues in print, it takes more of them to get a crital mass. Plus to activate Prowl you need to attack and hit your opponent. So we get hurt more than most if we get a creature or two destroyed by an opponent.
I agree part of playing a deck like this is managing over extending, but we don't have a tarmogorf kind of card that is a threat by itself and only Invisible Stalker is really got a lot of protection itself to help continuously activate Prowl. But it doesn't really by itself create a clock. Our creatures are very fragile, they die to not only lightning bolts, and Pyroclasm, but even gut shot.
Prowl has some powerful cards. I'm extremely fond of both Notorious Throng and Knowledge Exploitation, they are just hard to use and not good in every game state. Plus its hard to get to six mana for Notorious Throng, but its still really good at just four mana.
If you'd played the deck any, you have to have noticed that you are trying to tempo your opponent and its hard to balance putting enough threats out to put up a good clock, having enough tempo to slow them down, and protecting your threats to keep enabling Prowl. Its a hard deck to pilot and you can do it right and still be in terrible situations.
The way the deck plays for me is get a stinkdrinker down turn 2 and start beating face with a few evasive 1/1s or 2 power creatures. There isn't much black creatures around the meta, and with 1/1 spirit tokens aplenty, fear is now better evasion than flying. With stinkdrinker out, 2 1/1s hit for 6, and thas not counting the bandit himself. This isn't counting everything else like the prowler and blackguard counters. If removal evades your discard and counters and hits the bandit, then maybe overextend.
That being said, I haven't playtested this much against Modern decks. I played almost this exact list in legacy (and it was holding up quite well). I will substitute the cards i do not have yet and start playtesting this more. Will post results.
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1 Deathcult Rogue
4 Stinkdrinker Bandit
4 Frogtosser Banneret
4 Oona's Blackguard
2 Inkfathom Infiltrator
4 Prickly Boggart
4 Nightshade Stinger
1 Earwig Squad
3 Noggin Whack
4 Morsel Theft
4 Duress
Instants
4 Doom Blade
21 Swamp
I've been considering splashing Blue for Metropolis Sprite, Artful Dodge, Ghostform, as well as control options like Spell Pierce, Mana Leak, and Echoing Truth. Artifacts like Cloak and Dagger and Whispersilk Cloak might have a place in the deck, too. I'd really like to hear any suggestions on how to make this deck a little tighter.
Modern: Burn
Legacy: Burn
Casual: Treefolk Tribal
Commander: Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Modern: Burn
Legacy: Burn
Casual: Treefolk Tribal
Commander: Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/articles/15127-squandered-resources-super-budget-super-series-4
Looking at the list, I think it's already modern-legal, but still needs an update
Edit: just wanted to put this out there, banneret reduces prowl, too
Modern: Burn
Legacy: Burn
Casual: Treefolk Tribal
Commander: Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
How about we start with a list to build on? Are we sticking to mono B or U/B?
There are other options, but they're all tap/discard options. Blue has plenty of draw for CA if necessary.
Modern: Burn
Legacy: Burn
Casual: Treefolk Tribal
Commander: Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Modern: Burn
Legacy: Burn
Casual: Treefolk Tribal
Commander: Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
You value knowledge, logic, and deceit. You love to pursue wisdom but also to manipulate and deceive. At your best, you are brilliant and progressive. At your worst, you are treacherous and cold. Your symbol is a water droplet. Your enemies are green and red.
2 sygg, river cutthroat
3 Frogtosser Banneret
2 Invisible Stalker
4 Nightshade Stinger
4 Oona's Blackguard
4 Oona's Prowler
4 Prickly Boggart
3 Stinkdrinker Bandit
4 Inquisition of kozilek
4 Mana Leak
4 dismember
Lands-22
3 Polluted delta
5 Island
8 Swamp
1 watery grave
4 Underground River
this will ne my starting point. The lands are like that because that is what I have. The only things I do not have here are the syggs, the 1 watery grave. Once i acquire them, i'll sleeve this up and test
But I've always felt like this deck fundementally makes you want to overextend by putting a lot of inexpensive creatures onto the field. I think you need away around pyroclasm.
edit: servitude as a 1-of shouldn't hurt a mono-b build, but bbb might be restrictive for a u/b build. Also, you would need 5 mana to get enough value from it, which may be a tall order for a deck with 22 lands.
This list looks similar to the one I've started working on. I do agree that Frogtosser Banneret might not be necessary due to our low mana costs, but it's great at eating removal that might be directed at other creatures. I'm torn between Inquisition and Noggin Whack; sure, the Inquisition is faster, but Whack can hit more both in terms of card type and number of cards. I think that lots of playtesting is needed, but I'm looking forward to sleeving this up for FNM. My manabase is just a little different since I own 4 Watery Grave. I'm also going to be running one copy of Sunken Ruins.
Modern: Burn
Legacy: Burn
Casual: Treefolk Tribal
Commander: Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
4x Oona's Blackguard
4x Oona's Prowler
4x Bitterblossom
4x Spellstutter Sprite
4x Quickling
4x Pestermite
4x Scion of Oona
Other Spells
4x Aether Vial
4x Vapor Snag
4x Dismember
4x Secluded Glen
4x Darkslick Shores
4x Polluted Delta
2x Cavern of Souls
2x Tectonic Edge
2x Watery Grave
1x Island
1x Swamp
3x Vendilion Clique
4x Thoughtseize
1x Darkblast
1x Disfigure
2x Countersquall
2x Dispel
2x Sower of Temptation
Sounds like fun!
EDIT: I know the thread is MonoB, but even the OP posted that he was thinking about splashing Blue already.
The problem with this deck is it's not a Rogue deck; it's a Faerie deck. There are some good options available within the realm of Glen Elendra, but I don't think a full-on Faerie deck is what we're looking for. I will certainly keep Bitterblossom and Quickling in mind, but I want to keep this Rogues and not Faeries-Some-of-Which-are-Rogues.
Modern: Burn
Legacy: Burn
Casual: Treefolk Tribal
Commander: Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
All of them are rogues excpets for Spellstutter Sprite, which acts as a Counterspell, and Scion of Oona, which grants protection and a massive pump to all your rogues. Before dismissing it, give it a proxy test at least bro!
The manabase couldn't be more smooth, and all your dudes got evasion, you got 8 dudes that provide permanent pumps, 12 dudes that provide protection, idk, just think about it ;).
I've played Faeries, and I didn't like it. Faeries are certainly strong, but I'm looking for something different. I want to have fun with Prowl and Rogues as a tribe. While there's certainly nothing wrong with your list as a Faerie deck, it's not the type of deck I'm looking for.
Modern: Burn
Legacy: Burn
Casual: Treefolk Tribal
Commander: Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
On a side note, I feel from playtesting that 26 creatures is too much. I'm thinking of dropping 1 or 2 for spell pierces.
I agree part of playing a deck like this is managing over extending, but we don't have a tarmogorf kind of card that is a threat by itself and only Invisible Stalker is really got a lot of protection itself to help continuously activate Prowl. But it doesn't really by itself create a clock. Our creatures are very fragile, they die to not only lightning bolts, and Pyroclasm, but even gut shot.
Prowl has some powerful cards. I'm extremely fond of both Notorious Throng and Knowledge Exploitation, they are just hard to use and not good in every game state. Plus its hard to get to six mana for Notorious Throng, but its still really good at just four mana.
If you'd played the deck any, you have to have noticed that you are trying to tempo your opponent and its hard to balance putting enough threats out to put up a good clock, having enough tempo to slow them down, and protecting your threats to keep enabling Prowl. Its a hard deck to pilot and you can do it right and still be in terrible situations.
That being said, I haven't playtested this much against Modern decks. I played almost this exact list in legacy (and it was holding up quite well). I will substitute the cards i do not have yet and start playtesting this more. Will post results.