While vampiric link is a good card, Ben, it's rarely the right idea to use enchant creatures (way too easy to be 2 for 1'd). Unless you are playing Boggles, I suppose. Way better to use more direct forms of lifegain against burn/aggro/whatever you would use vampiric link for.
While vampiric link is a good card, Ben, it's rarely the right idea to use enchant creatures (way too easy to be 2 for 1'd). Unless you are playing Boggles, I suppose. Way better to use more direct forms of lifegain against burn/aggro/whatever you would use vampiric link for.
I'm pretty sure that's not how you're supposed to use Vampiric Link. It doesn't grant lifelink so you put it on your opponent's creatures and essentially nullify any damage that creature would deal to you. It end's up functioning more like a black Guard Duty with some minor upsides (granting lifelink to your creatures or gaining you life when they block).
Vampiric link is great. What is everyones ideal land count in MBD? I play the midrange/control variant and I'm rolling 26 (one is an arena) 2 urborgs and 2 nykthos. I've though about ditching the arena and throwing in a second kalitas.
Oh nice, that's awesome about vampiric link! I just automatically assumed that the wording had been erratted to say "lifelink", so that's entirely my mistake, I'm sorry...
To answer fizzy's question, I run 24, after finding I got mana screwed too often at 22 or 23 and needing to hit that 4th land on time.
So, with AV coming off we are going to take a hit in some match ups. I still think we have a powerful I win button with Gary, but control is going to get stronger. How are hou mono black players going to cope with SOTM/AV
Vampiric link is great. What is everyones ideal land count in MBD? I play the midrange/control variant and I'm rolling 26 (one is an arena) 2 urborgs and 2 nykthos. I've though about ditching the arena and throwing in a second kalitas.
I've tried 22 for a little while, and found that I just wasn't hitting my land drops. At 24 I feel like I flood oit too much, and 23 feels just right. Note that I play a low curve, only playing 2 four drops, and 3 garys, so if you are playing higher on the curve you'll need a few more lands. Indo feel that Arena is a bit too cute for competitve play, and you'd be better served running an actual spell or land depending on your mana needs.
So I played in a Wednesday night Modern FNM tonight, and here was my result:
Casual before the tournament: KikiCord 2-0 win
-Outgrinded Jund both games, game one I was down at 1 point before gaining life back off kalitas, traitor of ghet boosted by repeated bloodghast sacs
Tournament:
Round 1: Scapeshift: 2-1 Lost
-not fast enough to get them down to 0 (or didn't get to a high enough life) to win game 1, although the game went for a long time because I kept picking apart scapeshift whenever I saw it in hand.
-won a grindy game 2 where he boarded out the Valakuts
Round 2: Merfolk: 2-1 Lost
-Best I have ever done against Merfolk
-lost game 3 when we both mulled to 5, and then I drew 4 4 drops in a row with only 2 mana... bummer
-otherwise very competitive with all of the creature and hand destruction (especially post board)
Round 3: Jund: 2-0 Win
-grinded out both games relatively easily, although liliana of the veil gave me a run for my money both games. REALLY wish I had the money to buy a playset...
Round 4: Blue White Control: 2-0 Lost
-as a midrange deck that gets more controly in the sideboard, I didn't really stand a chance... not sure how to improve this matchup (or matchups vs. control in general), and could really use any advice you all have.
Deck reflections:
1. I really like the MB gatekeeper of malakir!! Helped out in a LOT of games, but was sometimes a bear (a... black bear)
2. Thinking about replacing bojuka bog with nihil spellbomb in the sideboard
3. With the recent banning/unbanning, not sure how to make the deck more competitive vs. control
I decided to give Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet another try, I like what the card can do when paired with Geralf's Messenger or Bloodghast. However, I am still leery because the card needs to stick around for at least a turn or two, but I think it has earned a one of. (I had a game where I saced Geralf to Kalitas in response to Geralf being targeted by a Grim Lavamancer, I think my opponent realized what a mistake that was lol.)
I'm also finding that Bile Blight is quickly becoming a real workhorse for my deck. It may cost 2, but it's often good enough to kill what I need or really set me ahead with a 2 or 3 for 1.
I also tried to make the primer look a bit better, and found a few spelling errors. I'll begin working on updating deck lists soon. As I'm not currently playing Mono Black, is there anyone who would like me to use their deck list as the stock Mono Black Devotion? I'd make sure to credit the deck to you of course. If you would like to do this, just PM me or post your lists and tell me this is something you are interested in. Is there anything else anyone would like me to add to the OP? If so, let me know. It may have to wait until after May 14, as I'm getting married, but I'll keep the requests in mind and try to work on them as much as possible. Enjoy!
I'd be happy to submit my current list for the primer. It's by no means the only way to play mono-black, and I think there should be several submitted lists for the primer.
I'd be happy to submit my current list for the primer. It's by no means the only way to play mono-black, and I think there should be several submitted lists for the primer.
Added you deck list too the primer. I do like the idea of having a few builds displayed, as there are so many playstyles floating around out there. If anyone else would like their list up there, let me know!
Has anyone gotten the chance to test Relentless Dead and come to any conclusions? I remember there was a lot of debate over it before the set came out and I'm interested in hearing where things have landed.
I' running him as a two of, in place of Geralf's Messenger. It slows down damage a tad, but it fills so many roles I don't care. I will play him tirn 2 or turn 10 happily.
On Dark Petition, I thought about running it as a 2 of, replacing a gary and sweeper, but just haven't. Currently I just don't really have the tutor targets I feel that Petition needs to have. 3 Liliana, a sweeper and Gary just doesn't seem like enough.
Hello, I'm not quite sure this is the best place to post this. - But I'd like to get some advice on my deck (and how to fill 10 spare places).
My deck is based around a recursion/devotion theme. And I've set as goal to both use grave pact and abhorent overlord. (Incidentally since I own them and to me the synergy between those two cards seems just too fun to not try to make a deck around). So in this sense it's not meant to become a Tx deck, but rather a good casual deck I could take to local tourneys for fun. - And a uncommon tournament format played here a lot: free for all multiplayer modern. (Well FFA multiplayer conspiracy draft is the most popular thing around here but if we can't get a draft box....).
Now liliana and kalitas are (sadly) out of my budget reach. But besides those highly priced cards I wish to find a very good deck. The idea is kind of obvious I think: get some impenetrable wall with recursive creatures, and then wait till the opponents wear down due to grave pact. Then either win through the leftover creatures I have (abhorent overlord's harpies) or due to gray merchant's etb.
Now what I'm wondering about are mainly the spawning pit, and undying evil. The first seems kind of "subpar", since it's no devotion at all. Though I need a sac outlet that gives more influence than just scry 1 (I think?). The second seems kind of redundant between all the build in undying and mikaeus - should I run some hard targetted removal instead? (Though undying evil is amazing on gray merchant).
I feel your deck is way too slow for the format. You have no early interaction and some decks will be playing stuff in the first few turns. Abhorrent Overlord, while I love the card, is quite redundant compared to Grey Merchant of Asphodel. Same with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed. It seems extremely slow, and while cool for value in a very grindy game, I think it's a huge mana investment for little to no turn. If you want a good budget liliana, Gatekeeper of Malakir is a GREAT mono black card. Forces 2 for ones that Liliana usually uses. And also, if you're looking for recurring creatures, Whip of Erebos is a card that helps fit your game plan but also gives much needed devotion and surviability against aggro decks. It's only good against grindy and aggro decks, which is mine is sideboarded. You only need one if you plan on running it. I'm up too late to think of other suggestions at the moment, but If I were you, I'd scrap your drops over 5 cmc and replace them the gatekeepers.
The big draw to both Gravecrawler and Bloodghast is their cheap and easy recursion. While they may not be back breaking top decks in the late game, they still synergize with our discard outlets, and provide reoccurring devotion that Gary needs to operate. These cards make Gary much better the later you go while also giving you early game pressure. After wrath, being able to reload your board with a land drop and a couple of mana is quite powerful, and often all you need to close our games. Now it is true that these creatures can't block, which hurts an already bad aggro pairing, but they can be supported with other two drops that can block, or with spot removal/discard elements.
Relentless Dead is fantastic, but is very slow. If you are running a control heavy build, I think he can be better than either Bloodghast or Gravecrawler, but I wouldn't say both. In multicolor builds, 'Ghast is king, the fetch land interaction is extremely powerful. In mono color control builds, I think the 'Ghast looses a bit of steam, as the aggro isn't as important, and you aren't fetching all the time, recurring him over and over. Crawler isn't all that much better in these games, but recurring off of RD without using the death trigger, and helping rebuild board and devotion post wrath is huge. In these cases I think RD is a little better than 'Ghast. I think RD is really enabling a more traditional MBC shell that uses Gary to finish out the game.
Running Relentless Dead as you're only creature is a mistake. This deck needs Gary to drop with as big of a drain as possible, and one or two Relentless dead on board aren't going to cut it. Also, while running more Relentless Dead's makes the others better, four isn't always the right number. The more midrange builds are already packed full of powerful cards and synergy, so just finding 2-3 slots can be hard. I would not run RD as a one of, but 2 and above can definitely be the correct number depending on your 75.
Now @ Yurista06, I would not cut your Phyrexian Arenas. They are your only source of card draw right now, and that is something the deck really needs. While you can create card advantage out of Liliana of the Veil, Gravecrawler, Bloodghast, and Geralf's Messenger, sometimes you just need that pure CA that only drawing extra cards can give you. I would actually be trying to shoe horn another into the build, as I think two is not enough. I'd probably cut a Mutilate if you're going for a midrange build, or maybe a Phyrexian Obliterator if you are going for control.
Now on what to cut to try out RD. You deck is a mixed one, with midrange and control elements. If you want to go more of a midrange build, I'd say cut the Gatekeeper of Malakirs all together, put in 2-3 RD, and use the extra spots for more spot removal. I would even cut the Profane Command+Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx combo, as in the midrange builds, it never really shines all that brightly. Again, fill those slots with more disruption, and replace the lands with either more swamps, or a Mutavault or two.
If you are going for a more controlling build, I would cut the Geralf's Messengers, and two Bloodghast. Run the full four RD, and shove in either some Read the Bones or more disruption. I still do not like a play set of Gatekeeper, but that's a more personal thing than anything. Good luck on the deck, and welcome to the dark side. We have cookies for the under aged and stouts for the adults.
I agree with oops. Don't cut Phyrexian Arena unless it is being replaced with bob. I would suggest running 4 of either though. I would also recommend moving all your Mutilates to the side board, cutting Profane Command, adding 1-2 more LotV, 1-2 Dismember. Cut Gravecrawler, add 2 swamps and a Thoughtseize. Maybe cut 2 Gatekeepers for 2 RD if you want to try it. Also, your sb is sort of fighting itself. Leyline of the Void, Nihil Spellbomb, and Surgical Extraction don't really work together. I'd suggest going either all exile effect or all Surgical. Drown in Sorrow is strictly better than Infest.
I'm pretty sure that's not how you're supposed to use Vampiric Link. It doesn't grant lifelink so you put it on your opponent's creatures and essentially nullify any damage that creature would deal to you. It end's up functioning more like a black Guard Duty with some minor upsides (granting lifelink to your creatures or gaining you life when they block).
BRGLiving EndBRG
BRGLiving EndBRG
To answer fizzy's question, I run 24, after finding I got mana screwed too often at 22 or 23 and needing to hit that 4th land on time.
That would be absolutely horrible.
Play hellspark elemental
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
Almost forgot Leyline of the Void just turns off thopter combo also.
BRGLiving EndBRG
I've tried 22 for a little while, and found that I just wasn't hitting my land drops. At 24 I feel like I flood oit too much, and 23 feels just right. Note that I play a low curve, only playing 2 four drops, and 3 garys, so if you are playing higher on the curve you'll need a few more lands. Indo feel that Arena is a bit too cute for competitve play, and you'd be better served running an actual spell or land depending on your mana needs.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
Casual before the tournament: KikiCord 2-0 win
-Outgrinded Jund both games, game one I was down at 1 point before gaining life back off kalitas, traitor of ghet boosted by repeated bloodghast sacs
Tournament:
Round 1: Scapeshift: 2-1 Lost
-not fast enough to get them down to 0 (or didn't get to a high enough life) to win game 1, although the game went for a long time because I kept picking apart scapeshift whenever I saw it in hand.
-won a grindy game 2 where he boarded out the Valakuts
Round 2: Merfolk: 2-1 Lost
-Best I have ever done against Merfolk
-lost game 3 when we both mulled to 5, and then I drew 4 4 drops in a row with only 2 mana... bummer
-otherwise very competitive with all of the creature and hand destruction (especially post board)
Round 3: Jund: 2-0 Win
-grinded out both games relatively easily, although liliana of the veil gave me a run for my money both games. REALLY wish I had the money to buy a playset...
Round 4: Blue White Control: 2-0 Lost
-as a midrange deck that gets more controly in the sideboard, I didn't really stand a chance... not sure how to improve this matchup (or matchups vs. control in general), and could really use any advice you all have.
Deck reflections:
1. I really like the MB gatekeeper of malakir!! Helped out in a LOT of games, but was sometimes a bear (a... black bear)
2. Thinking about replacing bojuka bog with nihil spellbomb in the sideboard
3. With the recent banning/unbanning, not sure how to make the deck more competitive vs. control
I'm also finding that Bile Blight is quickly becoming a real workhorse for my deck. It may cost 2, but it's often good enough to kill what I need or really set me ahead with a 2 or 3 for 1.
BRGLiving EndBRG
4x Phyrexian Obliterator
2x Spellskite
4x Tarmogoyf
1x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2x Thing in the Ice
Lands
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Overgrown Tomb
4x Polluted Delta
2x Creeping Tar Pit
2x Darkslick Shores
3x Watery Grave
5x Swamp
3x Liliana of the Veil
Instants
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Dispel
2x Remand
1x Shadow of Doubt
1x Spell Snare
2x Stubborn Denial
2x Victim of Night
Artifact
1x Engineered Explosives
Sorcery
4x Serum Visions
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Languish
2x Thoughtseize
1x Batterskull
2x Countersquall
3x Disfigure
1x Dispel
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Flashfreeze
1x Illness in the Ranks
1x Languish
1x Shadow of Doubt
1x Spell Snare
1x Surgical Extraction
The new card Thing in the Ice combos well with Spellskite and Phyrexian Obliterator when he flips into Awoken Horror since both of them are Horror creatures as well.
Added to Card Choices
Relentless Dead
Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
Added to Other Card Choices
Liliana, Heretical Healer/Liliana, Defiant Necromancer
Asylum Visitor
Fulminator Mage
Moved to Other Card Choices
Stromgald Crusader
I also tried to make the primer look a bit better, and found a few spelling errors. I'll begin working on updating deck lists soon. As I'm not currently playing Mono Black, is there anyone who would like me to use their deck list as the stock Mono Black Devotion? I'd make sure to credit the deck to you of course. If you would like to do this, just PM me or post your lists and tell me this is something you are interested in. Is there anything else anyone would like me to add to the OP? If so, let me know. It may have to wait until after May 14, as I'm getting married, but I'll keep the requests in mind and try to work on them as much as possible. Enjoy!
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
4x Bloodghast
4x Dark Confidant
4x Geralf's Messenger
3x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2x Phyrexian Obliterator
Sorcery (8)
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Thoughtseize
Planeswalker (4)
4x Liliana of the Veil
1x Bile Blight
2x Disfigure
2x Dismember
2x Go for the Throat
1x Slaughter Pact
Land (22)
2x Cavern of Souls
2x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
16x Swamp
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Bile Blight
2x Damnation
1x Illness in the Ranks
3x Leyline of the Void
2x Pithing Needle
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Spellskite
2x Vampiric Link
BRGLiving EndBRG
Added you deck list too the primer. I do like the idea of having a few builds displayed, as there are so many playstyles floating around out there. If anyone else would like their list up there, let me know!
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
On Dark Petition, I thought about running it as a 2 of, replacing a gary and sweeper, but just haven't. Currently I just don't really have the tutor targets I feel that Petition needs to have. 3 Liliana, a sweeper and Gary just doesn't seem like enough.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
I feel your deck is way too slow for the format. You have no early interaction and some decks will be playing stuff in the first few turns. Abhorrent Overlord, while I love the card, is quite redundant compared to Grey Merchant of Asphodel. Same with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed. It seems extremely slow, and while cool for value in a very grindy game, I think it's a huge mana investment for little to no turn. If you want a good budget liliana, Gatekeeper of Malakir is a GREAT mono black card. Forces 2 for ones that Liliana usually uses. And also, if you're looking for recurring creatures, Whip of Erebos is a card that helps fit your game plan but also gives much needed devotion and surviability against aggro decks. It's only good against grindy and aggro decks, which is mine is sideboarded. You only need one if you plan on running it. I'm up too late to think of other suggestions at the moment, but If I were you, I'd scrap your drops over 5 cmc and replace them the gatekeepers.
BMono Black DevotionB RMono Red ControlR
2 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
3 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Geralf's Messenger
4 Bloodghast
4 Gravecrawler
Spells
2 Phyrexian arena
3 Victim of Night
3 Mutilate
2 Profane command
2 Liliana of the veil
4 Inquisition of kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
2 Nyktos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
17 Swamp
2 Dismember
3 Bile Blight
1 Tectonic edge
1 Infest
1 Darkblast
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Shadow of doubt
1 Leyline of the Void
2 Surgical Extraction
The sideboard changes depending on the meta, and maybe i'm thinking on cutting the arenas to test relentless dead
Relentless Dead is fantastic, but is very slow. If you are running a control heavy build, I think he can be better than either Bloodghast or Gravecrawler, but I wouldn't say both. In multicolor builds, 'Ghast is king, the fetch land interaction is extremely powerful. In mono color control builds, I think the 'Ghast looses a bit of steam, as the aggro isn't as important, and you aren't fetching all the time, recurring him over and over. Crawler isn't all that much better in these games, but recurring off of RD without using the death trigger, and helping rebuild board and devotion post wrath is huge. In these cases I think RD is a little better than 'Ghast. I think RD is really enabling a more traditional MBC shell that uses Gary to finish out the game.
Running Relentless Dead as you're only creature is a mistake. This deck needs Gary to drop with as big of a drain as possible, and one or two Relentless dead on board aren't going to cut it. Also, while running more Relentless Dead's makes the others better, four isn't always the right number. The more midrange builds are already packed full of powerful cards and synergy, so just finding 2-3 slots can be hard. I would not run RD as a one of, but 2 and above can definitely be the correct number depending on your 75.
Now @ Yurista06, I would not cut your Phyrexian Arenas. They are your only source of card draw right now, and that is something the deck really needs. While you can create card advantage out of Liliana of the Veil, Gravecrawler, Bloodghast, and Geralf's Messenger, sometimes you just need that pure CA that only drawing extra cards can give you. I would actually be trying to shoe horn another into the build, as I think two is not enough. I'd probably cut a Mutilate if you're going for a midrange build, or maybe a Phyrexian Obliterator if you are going for control.
Now on what to cut to try out RD. You deck is a mixed one, with midrange and control elements. If you want to go more of a midrange build, I'd say cut the Gatekeeper of Malakirs all together, put in 2-3 RD, and use the extra spots for more spot removal. I would even cut the Profane Command+Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx combo, as in the midrange builds, it never really shines all that brightly. Again, fill those slots with more disruption, and replace the lands with either more swamps, or a Mutavault or two.
If you are going for a more controlling build, I would cut the Geralf's Messengers, and two Bloodghast. Run the full four RD, and shove in either some Read the Bones or more disruption. I still do not like a play set of Gatekeeper, but that's a more personal thing than anything. Good luck on the deck, and welcome to the dark side. We have cookies for the under aged and stouts for the adults.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
BRGLiving EndBRG
BRGLiving EndBRG