I love his abilities, but hate his mana cost. But if you aren't running Liliana or Bob, and are going for a more controlling build, he could be the card for you. I'll be a while before he is cheap (which I imagine he will be) as standard pre order nonsense will keep him around 25 bucks for a while. Baby Liliana is another walker that I would love to try out but at 25+ I'm can't afford to pick up three just for an experiment. Still I think once she rotates her price will fall, and we can really start tuning a list for her. I've been theory crafting a new BR build for her with Fulminator Mage and Kolaghan's Command. So much value.
I'll be able to work in depth on a budget build come Wednesday and Thursday (my days off).If you are looking for a budget replacement for Lili, you have to ask yourself why we are running her. While there are several reasons my deck runs her, the main reason is for the cheap discard, along with the devotion. I think the best budget replacement right now is Necrogen Mists, if you are just looking to get the discard effect.
On the Leyline, I've not had the pleasure of running it, but it does look good. But I still like Bojuka Bog for not taking up a spell slot, or Nihil Spellbomb for it's ability for card draw, and it's relative cheapness at all points of the game. While it's never free I'd rather draw a Spellbomb on turn 2 than a Leyline.
Hey guys! I'm glad to see this revived and thriving! I'm going back to basics with my original concept with new additions for a tournament tomorrow, and wanted to see where the deck has gone since I last played it so long ago. There were so many iterations of the deck right around when I stopped playing it, some aristocrat style decks and some weenie hordes that I never got to try. I always like to play decks that aren't expected, which leads to a lot of brewing, but Mill, Waste Not, and Faeries haven't done me as well as my original baby Mono B Devotion.
Thanks to Oopsimsorry for taking over and helping the place grow!
The build I run is more aggro-ish. For that reason I don't like Liliana of the Veil because she is too slow. She really ruins the tempo and your ability to keep pressure on the opponent. I know that sounds weird because she is kind of known for pressure but she can't attack and in an aggro list, I'd rather drop Geralf's Messenger or pay the Raid cost on Bloodsoaked Champion on turn 3 rather than cast Lili.
The being said I am definitely on the aggro plan. I think Bloodghast is one of the best cards this deck can run because it makes it much easier to maintain a high level of Devotion. I have one matches against opponents who have spent their time meticulously destroying my Bloodghast's only to drop land number 5, get back 3 'ghasts and then hard cast a Grey Merchant for 8 Devotion to put my opponent at/under 10 life and activate haste on my 'ghasts to swing for another 6 in the same turn. FREAKING BRUTAL. That said, Bloodghast contributes to an aggro plan better than any other because, well, he can't even block so if you aren't attacking with him, what are you doing? Also, Bloodsoaked Champion does a pretty acceptable impersonation of Bloodghast and that twosome combine to give opponent's fits.
@ChannelBowlingBall:
Leyline does not remove cards that are already in the graveyard from the game so you have to get it down before your opponent gets anything into the yard that you might care about. Spellbomb still hits things that are already in the yard, it does so cheaper than Relic of Progenitus, and let's you draw a card.
@Syreal94:
Why are you running Shizo? You don't have any legendary creatures in your list and no way to take control of one of your opponent's legendary creatures? Is there something I'm missing?
Regarding Gatekeeper, I love him. We have a healthy bromance. That being said he is not a maindeck card for a more aggro build for all of the reasons that Oopssorryy mentioned. I do like it against decks:
Where I want more creatures but don't want to dilute the amount of removal I'm running.
Just plain want more creatures (like against control)
Need an Edict effect
Want more ways to build devotion
He's a role-player and when you want him he is incredible, and when you don't he is disappointing.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The following link is an invitation to join Pucatrade (card trading service though similar to TCGPLayer). If you follow the link then it awards me with tokens to exchange for actual cards. Thanks! https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
@Syreal94:
Why are you running Shizo? You don't have any legendary creatures in your list and no way to take control of one of your opponent's legendary creatures? Is there something I'm missing?
Regarding Gatekeeper, I love him. We have a healthy bromance. That being said he is not a maindeck card for a more aggro build for all of the reasons that Oopssorryy mentioned. I do like it against decks:
Where I want more creatures but don't want to dilute the amount of removal I'm running.
Just plain want more creatures (like against control)
Need an Edict effect
Want more ways to build devotion
He's a role-player and when you want him he is incredible, and when you don't he is disappointing.
Re: Storehouse - I definitely misread the card. I think the deck I'm trying to build is much more control-esque, so I might keep it out of this thread because I don't think the focus in my deck is devotion.
I think you can do Devotion and still push towards a more controlling build. Liliana of the Veil is a great card for that. I would change a few things though.
I understand the point of Spawning Pool but it takes 2 mana to active, plus 1 to swing (because you are tapping a land as a creature) and then 1 more if you want to not lose that land do to blocks/trades. That's 4 mana and its even only a 1/1. Faerie Conclave sees some play because its hard to block so its less likely to trade, provides at least 2 power, and will only ever be a 3 mana investment. You'd be better off with Mutavault or just basic Swamps especially since it comes in tapped.
I don't know if you need 3 Sign in Bloods & 3 Phyrexian Arena. If you compare to other control decks you usually see 4-6 draw spells but they don't cos them life. That being said I might consider 4 Phyrexian Arena's and 0 Sign in Bloods because that is more cards over the course of the game and they contribute to Devotion where Sign in Blood's don't and that has value here.
I would go up to 4 Thoughtseize and 3 Inquisition of Kozilek. In my experience with B/W Tokens, 8-Rack, Blitzkrieg, Mono-B Devotion, and even a couple different mono-b control/mostly-b control lists, I would say that is the most efficient/worthwhile mix of 1cmc targeted discard spells.
Since you are running Phyrexian Obliterator you might consider Languish over Damnation. Granted, that doesn't hit Gurmag Angler, Siege Rhino, or Tasigur but Obliterator trades with them and that is still well in your favor.
For targeted removal I would consider some number of Victim of Night, Murderous Cut, and Dismember. I wouldn't run more than 2 Murderous Cut. Victim of Night hits pretty much anything that sees any worthwhile amount of play in Modern. In fact the only card that it doesn't really do anything against is Gurmag Angler. Dismember does hit anything Languish and Victim miss, has a cheap alternative casting cost, and is decently costed even if you have to pay the whole cost. Bile Blight is better off in the board. There aren't a lot of matchups in modern where Bile Blight is going to be anything other than a worse Lightning Strike unless your particular meta sees a lot of token strategies.
Otherwise I think the core of your list is about perfect.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The following link is an invitation to join Pucatrade (card trading service though similar to TCGPLayer). If you follow the link then it awards me with tokens to exchange for actual cards. Thanks! https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
The deck is a bit weak, hurt by it's budget, but it should still hold up and get you some wins in a FNM style event. It does a lot of work for 100 bucks, and is a great starting point for those looking to try the deck out, but without sinking a bunch of money into a list you may or may not enjoy. It'll get you used to the style of the deck, and is a decent starting spot for the deck. You get recurring creatures, a suit of discard and removal, all held together by the game changer that is Gary. I'll also list the upgrade path I would take, as it's virtually the same path I took until I switched over to Bg. The first upgrade I would pull would be;
-4 Bloodsoaked Champion
+4 Gravecrawler
The crawler is easier to return in this deck, and cheaper as well. Then I would;
-3 Nether Traitor
-1 Doom Blade
+4 Bloodghast
Bloodghast is vastly superior to the traitor as he triggers more often and does so for free. The next few changes are on our discard front, as I would change out;
-3 Duress
+3 Inquisition of Kozilek
then
-3 Raven's Crime
+3 Thoughtseize
These are straight upgrades, allowing for your discard to hit more things, more of the time. After all of this you get to the last few available upgrades, these are the most expensive, but are arguably the best upgrades for the deck as far as raw power (the other changes promote consistency and mana efficiency).
-3 Erebos's Titan
+3 Phyrexian Obliterator
This guy not only gives you more devotion, he also stops any ground attack, and can really shut down ground pound aggro strategies.
-3 Vampire Nighthawk
+3 Liliana of the Veil.
Lily is stupid expensive right now, but trust me, there is a very, very good reason for it. This deck turns her global discard effect into a single sided affair, as your creatures will return, then she will edict stealing your opponents board position, and her ult is back breaking. The issue is she nearly out values the rest of the deck single handedly.
Once you get to this point you have most of the tools to either go to a more controlling build, or midrange build. The deck is super customizable , and thanks to blacks flexability with its's removal and discard, tunable for just about any meta. If anyone has any suggestions or changes they would like to make to the budget list let me know. I'm trying to stay under 100 bucks with it, while giving a clear upgrade path to a more stock list.
Cavern of Souls is a nice upgrade vs. decks with counterspells and is of course a bonus most tribal decks seek to take advantage of.
Dark Prophecy might provide a tad more synergy (and devotion) than Phyrexian Arena. It can allow for a little more explosive use of Nykthos mana, but is obviously more conditional.
Some additional vamps that I've had fun with in my nosferatu devotion deck are Dark Impostor, Pawn of Ulamog, and Bloodhusk Ritualist. The Ritualist is especially good vs control decks in conjunction with Cavern of Souls, while Dark Impostor is a particularly strong mana sink for Nykthos mana. Pawn of Ulamog and Blood Artist are good friends as well.
Hello!
I'm pretty new to mtg, I went to 3 FNM's so far and have used a lot of the feedback I got to improve my deck. I have applied alot of what was told to me, but I still have some questions.
Heres the deck :
One of the issues I face is substitution, for example, when I sideboard, what should I remove and what should I add vs some of the more common decks?
Also, I have 3 lilana of the veil as well as a couple dark confidant available to me, but I am not sure what to remove to play them.
I was also thinking of swapping a swamp for an Urburg, I guess it cant hurt right?
if theres anything else that you think would be a good idea to change or any comments at all, please feel free to let me know, I want this deck to be as competitive as possible and am exploring all options.
Thank you very much for taking the time to look through this guys.
What is your meta like? I see gravehate, some planeswalker control, and combo hate. I would stay away from Extraction effects, especially in this deck. You have enough discard and disruption that you're combo match up should be solid without the extraction. With a better discription of your meta, or where you feel like this deck needs help certain match ups, we can better construct a side.
As far as main board changes I do have a few;
-3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
-2 Vampire Nighthawk
-1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
-1 Swamp
-1 Phyrexian Obliterator
+1 Phyrexian Arena
+3 Liliana of the Veil
+1 Gravecrawler
+1 Bloodghast
+2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
We are swapping the Gatekeepers for Lili, removing Nighthawk to max out on Gravecrawler and Bloodghast, removing one Obliterator for one more Phyrexian Arena, and taking out one Nykthos and swamp to make room for two Urborgs. Liliana largely serves the same purpose that Gatekeeper does, but she also has two other abilities, and can act as a win condition. I would remove the nighthawks in favor of the Crawler and Ghast for recurring devotion, as it's what fuels out Gary kills. The removal of one Obilterator to make room for P.Arena will help smooth out draws and help you get past land clumps more consistently. It also cuts down on your chances of having two Obliterators in your opening hand, something I always hated seeing. Finally we cut a Shire and swamp for the two Urborg, we do this cut in this way to help avoid drawing into two Shrines, and having two Urborgs helps to cast obliterator on turn four even with a Shrine and poor board presence.
As far as Dark Confidant, you really have to change up the main to get him to work for you. 4 Obliterators and 3 Gary's is too much for Bob, and he will attempt to kill you with these numbers. I've yet to find a really solid mono black version of this deck that runs him better than Arena, as Mono black doesn't have the powerhouse that is Lotleth Troll, which enables the Bg version to cut down it's mana curve. Still if you can make him work, I find he is more powerful than P.Arena, and he is work the brewing to get right.
And before I forget, Welcome to the thread and the Forums, we are glad to have you!
The RB deck was a build made by a fellow forum user, Goku890. He felt that Gary was unneeded in his build. I found it hard to believe, but it's the only BR devo deck build at the moment, so I posted it to give people a starting point. I would say a blue and white splash version may be possible, I've just not put any time into it, nor has any one else that I've seen. If you come up with a list that you enjoy that splashes blue or white I would gladly add it to the primer for people to brew with.
Duress is a decent replacement for Thoughtseize, I actually use it in the sideboard for matchups were my life total matters more. If you do run Duress as a budget option I would try to max out on Inquisitions of Kozilek, probably a 4/2 split I would think.
Tyvm!! I like your suggestions alot I'm not experienced enough to be able to evaluate the meta yet, can you post a decklist of your BG and what you think of it pls? Thanks!!
This is my current build, but I've been going back and forth between my current build and -1 Swamp/+1 Dismember, but I digress. This has been my main for some time now, and it has served me well.
The idea is to get a Lotleth Troll or Liliana down, discard Gravecrawler and Bloodshast to the pair of them, and return them to the battlefield for cheap. This game plan is pretty easy on your mana, letting us use or disruption often and aggressively. You wear down your opponents hand and board using Lili+your disruption suit, and can swing pretty freely with Bloodghast and Gravecrawler returning all the time, and Lotleth Troll having regenerate lets us attack and defend with him to great success. Dark Confidant helps us keep stocked on discard fodder and full of active disruption. After you get set up and hit four mana you can start slamming down Obliterator which can end games all by himself, and eventually you get to Gray Merchant of Asphodel, who routinely gains me 9+ life while dealing 9+ damage.
The win cons are as follows
Lotleth Troll: It's easy to get him to a 5/4 with trample and regenerate.
Liliana: It's rare that people let her ult, but if she does it's usually game over
Obliterator: 5/5 trample with that effect, need I say more?
Gary: He may not win the game out right, but with life swings averaging for me around 16 points, he will put you firmly in control of a match.
The deck is built on synergy, taken to the extreme. Crawler and Ghast are both great with Lili. Ghast is great with fetch lands, which lets us splash a color easily, giving us access to Abrupt Decay and Lotleth Troll, who is good with both Ghast and Crawler. All of these creatures are good with Gray Merchant, who also makes Obliterator better, and I didn't really need a reason to try to play Obliterator. Bob keeps the decks engine running, as stated above. I tried to make the entire creature base have some sort of synergy with one another, and I feel as if I've managed to do so.
thanks again, are the non BG fetch lands for sideboard? or just there to help with bloodghast?
with the deck that you recommended changes to on the pervious post I made, would you recommend splashing green? Will it significantly improve the deck and how are you looking sideboard wise?
Can I substitute dark confidant for phyrexian arena budget wise? what else would you feel could be substituted, mostly land wise, to ease on the budget.
The fetch lands are there to make Ghast better, and to reliably cast Lotleth Troll or Abrupt Decay when needed, while also being able to play under a Blood Moon.
Phyrexian Arena can totally be used in place of Bob, its what I did for a long time, and it affords you a higher curve, which you can use to make the deck more controlling instead of the more Midrange build I run.
I would recommend starting with the mono black deck. The BG version is very expensive due to the fetchlands, and Abrupt Decay is slowly creeping up in price. If you enjoy the mono black deck, proxie the BG splash and play around with it. If it works for you as it has for me, buy in! I would just hate for you to drop quite a bit of cash on a deck you don't enjoy, so take it slow man.
I know budget is a concern for a lot of people so I would start with the staples. Usually that means things like Thoughtseize but for this deck I definitely think that you should start with Geralf's Messenger, Bloodghast, and then Phyrexian Obliterator. Even beyond what they do for your Devotion to Black, the are just really really good cards.
Bloodghast is one of the most important. I think it should be picked up first but Geralf's is cheaper so most people will get it first. It is really easy to underestimate how important it is to have to that devotion available. If your board gets decimated then Merchant doesn't do anything. Being able to drop a land and gain instant 6 devotion then drop an 8 Devotion Merchant. That's way better than a 2 devotion Merchant.
Geralf's serves a similar purpose because they are hard to deal with permanently and offers 3 Devotion.
That's also why I like Bloodsoaked Champion. Its really easy to bring back. It can trigger its own recursion and that's pretty cool. I don't think most lists for this deck play enough zombies to justify Gravecrawler but I could be wrong because I've never tested it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The following link is an invitation to join Pucatrade (card trading service though similar to TCGPLayer). If you follow the link then it awards me with tokens to exchange for actual cards. Thanks! https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
If you are running Geralf's Messenger in mono black, or Lotleth Troll in BG you should usually have a zombie to trigger Gravecrawler. If you wanted to you could also run a Mutavault to help trigger the return trigger.
I do agree with you on Bloodghast. Without him the deck would not work nearly as well. The free return enables for some crazy plays, and puts a lot of pressure on the opponent as each land you top deck can get you anywhere between 2-8 power on the board for free, sometimes with haste. Obliterator is another star, as I have yet to loose after successfully casting him.
Geralf's Messenger is a weird one for me. I enjoy the card, and the reach he provides, but between Liliana and Phyrexian Arena, the mono black lists three slot is very heavy, and I value Lili and Arena more than the Messenger. That being said, he does enable Gravecrawler so its a bit of a toss up. If you are running Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, Stromgald Crusader becomes a resonable card, being able to give him flying plus pump. If we get more discard outlets (Oona's Prowler, Lotleth Troll, Liliana) Blood Scrivenger maay come into his own, but we will see.
I feel like fast aggro, burn, and combo are really going to be problematic for you. Sideboard could help, but then you dilute your main game plan.
Little things that stand out to me are your delve creatures. You don't really fill up your graveyard, so you'll not be able to cast them particularly early. If you're not casting them early, then they aren't worth it in my opinion, especially since they don't contribute much to your devotion. Also, does the Nykthos really enable anything special? I suppose it doesn't really hurt anything, so why not include it, but it might be nice to see a mana sink and/or an x-spell in the 60 somewhere.
This is the current list I'm messing around with, mostly inspired because I was sick of Geralf's messenger not being able to block on turn three. So I took one out, sent the other two to sideboard (for control match ups) then added a trio of Nighthawks for that little bit of life gaining deathtouching fun. Since I was effectively running 11 vampires anyway, I decided to throw in two Vampire Nocturnus, just for that little bit of extra turn 4 reach, as well as something else for them to respect other then Cuddles. I do think that I need a bit more mainboard spot removal, but at this stage I'm not sure what to take out.
I'm currently running blackmails over thoughtseize (though I own playsets of each, so its not for budget reasons) because I think the former makes a better late game top deck, and I already tend to be a bit suicidal in my playstyle as it is, especially in the control matches where I move the Bitterblossoms to main.
Hello guys, i'm always been a fan of the devotion decks, but with time i realized that the need of having a huge presence on board for the devotion cards to be a lot effective may be a downside, especially if those presence is made of creatures that are easily targettable. That's why i brewed this thing recently
the creature presence is reduced to the minimum, we can lose a lot of life but we have many ways of stalling the game, i dont expect this thing to become so huge but i think it has potential. Any opinions?
Board presence isn't a big deal, as most, if not all of our creatures can come back from the grave for cheap (or free), or are incredibly hard to kill efficiently. Sinister Possession, Hissing Miasma, and Underworld Dreams are all a bit too slow for my tastes, and I don't see enough of a disruption suit to really get the games to go long enough to make use of them. I also don't see enough things to fill your graveyard to cast Tas or Angler. If you can't get them cheaper, you'd be better off with something like Grave Titan.
Thoughts on the new drana? Pumps herself and bitterblossom tokens. A must be answered target or she can take over. Maybe she belongs in this deck?
Drana could be good, I'm not sure. It would make both Bitterblossom and the other weaker vamps strong, turning something like Nighthawk into a serious threat. My biggest issue is that I feel like there are better options for this deck, unless you are going for a vamp build. If you are going full on vamps I say to drop the Obilterators, but keep a few Gary's and good full tribal with Cavern of Souls.
Regarding Geralf's Messenger:
Him not being able to block can be a liability especially if you are on a more mid-range/control plan. Typically you do little to nothing turn 1 and sometimes nothing turn t2 and then turn 3 you need to outclass threats and slow your opponent down and turn 4 you begin to take over the game. Geralf does not help with that because he can't block. Its even worse if you turn 2 is Bloodghast because he can't block either. They really require a low aggressive curve in order to be okay together but that's the way I prefer this deck. I want to drop my stuff and swing and take as big of a chunk out of my opponent as possible. I want them to be so hurt that Grey Merchant is back breaking as opposed to a stabilizing play. I want to reveal Gary and them scoop. I think that's where Messenger and Ghast shine but otherwise their terrible defense gets compounded when your deck strategy really needs that defense to be there.
BTW, a card that actually plays surprisingly good defense is Vampire Hexmage. Its kinda neat main deck tech against Walkers but it has First Strike and in that early stage of the game its really good. Plus its devotion is nice.
I'm not certain Drana is good enough. She is too fragile with too little upside. Creatures in Modern need to provide value coming in or leaving, be easy to get back, or provide such a huge upside that if it sticks around for even a turn it sets your opponent back massively or you ahead massively. Drana fails the first two and her ability is only good if you have at least one other creature on the board and only achieves the "massive" criteria with two or more creatures that aren't Drana. Also, she is a nonbo with Geralf's Messenger so just be aware of that. She does put a turn 4 Nocturnus out of Bolt range...
I'll be honest I'm not sold on her but all in Vampires with Nocturnus could be okay. Nocturnus with Bloodghast is just gross. The problem with Nocturnus is that Swamps are colorless and running 24 of them to hit your 5 drop (Gray Merchant) hurts having a top deck black card. That means you want to reduce lands to 22 or 23 but that hurts Gary. Then you have to start considering that Nocturnus isn't good enough or you drop Gary and you are no longer playing Mono-B Devotion and are just on a Vampire tribal plan. It starts getting into a very gray territory where in order to improve the deck you end up in a completely different game plan.
The following link is an invitation to join Pucatrade (card trading service though similar to TCGPLayer). If you follow the link then it awards me with tokens to exchange for actual cards. Thanks! https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
Well, with the addition of Nykthos and a mana sink or two, mono-black vamps can still be a devotion deck. But it's certainly different enough to warrant its own thread (and if I recall correctly there might already be one??). As for my main dude Vampire Nocturnus, he wins a lot of games when he hits the field. With enough fetch lands and a viscera seer, you can usually get a black card on top of the library.
Well, with the addition of Nykthos and a mana sink or two, mono-black vamps can still be a devotion deck. But it's certainly different enough to warrant its own thread (and if I recall correctly there might already be one??). As for my main dude Vampire Nocturnus, he wins a lot of games when he hits the field. With enough fetch lands and a viscera seer, you can usually get a black card on top of the library.
You are right about Nykthos. I hadn't considered that as a Devotion plan. How about, without Nykthos or Gary you aren't playing Mono-B Devotion? =P
Actually Viscera Seer is really sweet "tech" with Nocturnus. I hadn't considered that. Vampire Nocturnus is really powerful, giving all of your vampires +2/+1 turns even the weakest vamp into a worthwhile predator. Have you ever played this strategy with Blood Artist? I could see some shenanigans with T1 Seer into T2 Artist into T3 Gatekeeper. Also would be tasty with Bloodghast.
The following link is an invitation to join Pucatrade (card trading service though similar to TCGPLayer). If you follow the link then it awards me with tokens to exchange for actual cards. Thanks! https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I'll be able to work in depth on a budget build come Wednesday and Thursday (my days off).If you are looking for a budget replacement for Lili, you have to ask yourself why we are running her. While there are several reasons my deck runs her, the main reason is for the cheap discard, along with the devotion. I think the best budget replacement right now is Necrogen Mists, if you are just looking to get the discard effect.
On the Leyline, I've not had the pleasure of running it, but it does look good. But I still like Bojuka Bog for not taking up a spell slot, or Nihil Spellbomb for it's ability for card draw, and it's relative cheapness at all points of the game. While it's never free I'd rather draw a Spellbomb on turn 2 than a Leyline.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
Thanks to Oopsimsorry for taking over and helping the place grow!
Credit goes to Brofoux for the Sig pic.
Current Modern Deck
Black Licorice
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11006564#post11006564
The being said I am definitely on the aggro plan. I think Bloodghast is one of the best cards this deck can run because it makes it much easier to maintain a high level of Devotion. I have one matches against opponents who have spent their time meticulously destroying my Bloodghast's only to drop land number 5, get back 3 'ghasts and then hard cast a Grey Merchant for 8 Devotion to put my opponent at/under 10 life and activate haste on my 'ghasts to swing for another 6 in the same turn. FREAKING BRUTAL. That said, Bloodghast contributes to an aggro plan better than any other because, well, he can't even block so if you aren't attacking with him, what are you doing? Also, Bloodsoaked Champion does a pretty acceptable impersonation of Bloodghast and that twosome combine to give opponent's fits.
@ChannelBowlingBall:
Leyline does not remove cards that are already in the graveyard from the game so you have to get it down before your opponent gets anything into the yard that you might care about. Spellbomb still hits things that are already in the yard, it does so cheaper than Relic of Progenitus, and let's you draw a card.
@Syreal94:
Why are you running Shizo? You don't have any legendary creatures in your list and no way to take control of one of your opponent's legendary creatures? Is there something I'm missing?
Regarding Gatekeeper, I love him. We have a healthy bromance. That being said he is not a maindeck card for a more aggro build for all of the reasons that Oopssorryy mentioned. I do like it against decks:
He's a role-player and when you want him he is incredible, and when you don't he is disappointing.
https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
Re: Storehouse - I definitely misread the card. I think the deck I'm trying to build is much more control-esque, so I might keep it out of this thread because I don't think the focus in my deck is devotion.
I think you can do Devotion and still push towards a more controlling build. Liliana of the Veil is a great card for that. I would change a few things though.
I understand the point of Spawning Pool but it takes 2 mana to active, plus 1 to swing (because you are tapping a land as a creature) and then 1 more if you want to not lose that land do to blocks/trades. That's 4 mana and its even only a 1/1. Faerie Conclave sees some play because its hard to block so its less likely to trade, provides at least 2 power, and will only ever be a 3 mana investment. You'd be better off with Mutavault or just basic Swamps especially since it comes in tapped.
I don't know if you need 3 Sign in Bloods & 3 Phyrexian Arena. If you compare to other control decks you usually see 4-6 draw spells but they don't cos them life. That being said I might consider 4 Phyrexian Arena's and 0 Sign in Bloods because that is more cards over the course of the game and they contribute to Devotion where Sign in Blood's don't and that has value here.
I would go up to 4 Thoughtseize and 3 Inquisition of Kozilek. In my experience with B/W Tokens, 8-Rack, Blitzkrieg, Mono-B Devotion, and even a couple different mono-b control/mostly-b control lists, I would say that is the most efficient/worthwhile mix of 1cmc targeted discard spells.
Since you are running Phyrexian Obliterator you might consider Languish over Damnation. Granted, that doesn't hit Gurmag Angler, Siege Rhino, or Tasigur but Obliterator trades with them and that is still well in your favor.
For targeted removal I would consider some number of Victim of Night, Murderous Cut, and Dismember. I wouldn't run more than 2 Murderous Cut. Victim of Night hits pretty much anything that sees any worthwhile amount of play in Modern. In fact the only card that it doesn't really do anything against is Gurmag Angler. Dismember does hit anything Languish and Victim miss, has a cheap alternative casting cost, and is decently costed even if you have to pay the whole cost. Bile Blight is better off in the board. There aren't a lot of matchups in modern where Bile Blight is going to be anything other than a worse Lightning Strike unless your particular meta sees a lot of token strategies.
Otherwise I think the core of your list is about perfect.
https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
3 Nether Traitor
4 Geralf's Messenger
3 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Phyrexian Arena
3 Erebos's Titan
3 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
3 Duress
3 Raven's Crime
4 Victim of Night
3 Doom Blade
2 Mutilate
2 Dakmor Salvage
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
18 Swamp
The deck is a bit weak, hurt by it's budget, but it should still hold up and get you some wins in a FNM style event. It does a lot of work for 100 bucks, and is a great starting point for those looking to try the deck out, but without sinking a bunch of money into a list you may or may not enjoy. It'll get you used to the style of the deck, and is a decent starting spot for the deck. You get recurring creatures, a suit of discard and removal, all held together by the game changer that is Gary. I'll also list the upgrade path I would take, as it's virtually the same path I took until I switched over to Bg. The first upgrade I would pull would be;
-4 Bloodsoaked Champion
+4 Gravecrawler
The crawler is easier to return in this deck, and cheaper as well. Then I would;
-3 Nether Traitor
-1 Doom Blade
+4 Bloodghast
Bloodghast is vastly superior to the traitor as he triggers more often and does so for free. The next few changes are on our discard front, as I would change out;
-3 Duress
+3 Inquisition of Kozilek
then
-3 Raven's Crime
+3 Thoughtseize
These are straight upgrades, allowing for your discard to hit more things, more of the time. After all of this you get to the last few available upgrades, these are the most expensive, but are arguably the best upgrades for the deck as far as raw power (the other changes promote consistency and mana efficiency).
-3 Erebos's Titan
+3 Phyrexian Obliterator
This guy not only gives you more devotion, he also stops any ground attack, and can really shut down ground pound aggro strategies.
-3 Vampire Nighthawk
+3 Liliana of the Veil.
Lily is stupid expensive right now, but trust me, there is a very, very good reason for it. This deck turns her global discard effect into a single sided affair, as your creatures will return, then she will edict stealing your opponents board position, and her ult is back breaking. The issue is she nearly out values the rest of the deck single handedly.
Once you get to this point you have most of the tools to either go to a more controlling build, or midrange build. The deck is super customizable , and thanks to blacks flexability with its's removal and discard, tunable for just about any meta. If anyone has any suggestions or changes they would like to make to the budget list let me know. I'm trying to stay under 100 bucks with it, while giving a clear upgrade path to a more stock list.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
Dark Prophecy might provide a tad more synergy (and devotion) than Phyrexian Arena. It can allow for a little more explosive use of Nykthos mana, but is obviously more conditional.
Some additional vamps that I've had fun with in my nosferatu devotion deck are Dark Impostor, Pawn of Ulamog, and Bloodhusk Ritualist. The Ritualist is especially good vs control decks in conjunction with Cavern of Souls, while Dark Impostor is a particularly strong mana sink for Nykthos mana. Pawn of Ulamog and Blood Artist are good friends as well.
I'm pretty new to mtg, I went to 3 FNM's so far and have used a lot of the feedback I got to improve my deck. I have applied alot of what was told to me, but I still have some questions.
Heres the deck :
3x Bloodghast
3x Gatekeeper of Malakir
3x Geralf's Messenger
3x Gravecrawler
3x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4x Phyrexian Obliterator
2x Vampire Nighthawk
Instant:
2x Go for the Throat
2x Dismember
2x Smother
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Thoughtseize
2x Profane Command
Enchantment:
2x Phyrexian Arena
Land
3x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
19x Swamp or 18x Swamp + Urborg?
3x Bile Blight
3x Hero's Downfall
2x Relic of Progenitus
3x Shadow of Doubt
4x Surgical Extraction
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/30-08-15-mono-black-devotion/
One of the issues I face is substitution, for example, when I sideboard, what should I remove and what should I add vs some of the more common decks?
Also, I have 3 lilana of the veil as well as a couple dark confidant available to me, but I am not sure what to remove to play them.
I was also thinking of swapping a swamp for an Urburg, I guess it cant hurt right?
if theres anything else that you think would be a good idea to change or any comments at all, please feel free to let me know, I want this deck to be as competitive as possible and am exploring all options.
Thank you very much for taking the time to look through this guys.
As far as main board changes I do have a few;
-3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
-2 Vampire Nighthawk
-1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
-1 Swamp
-1 Phyrexian Obliterator
+1 Phyrexian Arena
+3 Liliana of the Veil
+1 Gravecrawler
+1 Bloodghast
+2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
We are swapping the Gatekeepers for Lili, removing Nighthawk to max out on Gravecrawler and Bloodghast, removing one Obliterator for one more Phyrexian Arena, and taking out one Nykthos and swamp to make room for two Urborgs. Liliana largely serves the same purpose that Gatekeeper does, but she also has two other abilities, and can act as a win condition. I would remove the nighthawks in favor of the Crawler and Ghast for recurring devotion, as it's what fuels out Gary kills. The removal of one Obilterator to make room for P.Arena will help smooth out draws and help you get past land clumps more consistently. It also cuts down on your chances of having two Obliterators in your opening hand, something I always hated seeing. Finally we cut a Shire and swamp for the two Urborg, we do this cut in this way to help avoid drawing into two Shrines, and having two Urborgs helps to cast obliterator on turn four even with a Shrine and poor board presence.
As far as Dark Confidant, you really have to change up the main to get him to work for you. 4 Obliterators and 3 Gary's is too much for Bob, and he will attempt to kill you with these numbers. I've yet to find a really solid mono black version of this deck that runs him better than Arena, as Mono black doesn't have the powerhouse that is Lotleth Troll, which enables the Bg version to cut down it's mana curve. Still if you can make him work, I find he is more powerful than P.Arena, and he is work the brewing to get right.
And before I forget, Welcome to the thread and the Forums, we are glad to have you!
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
Duress is a decent replacement for Thoughtseize, I actually use it in the sideboard for matchups were my life total matters more. If you do run Duress as a budget option I would try to max out on Inquisitions of Kozilek, probably a 4/2 split I would think.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
4 Gravecrawler
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Bloodghast
3 Dark Confidant
2 Phyrexian Obliterator
3 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
Spells
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Slaughter Pact
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Go for the Throat
3 Thoughtseize
3 Liliana of the Veil
Lands
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Polluted Delta
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
6 Swamp
2 Twilight Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
This is my current build, but I've been going back and forth between my current build and -1 Swamp/+1 Dismember, but I digress. This has been my main for some time now, and it has served me well.
The idea is to get a Lotleth Troll or Liliana down, discard Gravecrawler and Bloodshast to the pair of them, and return them to the battlefield for cheap. This game plan is pretty easy on your mana, letting us use or disruption often and aggressively. You wear down your opponents hand and board using Lili+your disruption suit, and can swing pretty freely with Bloodghast and Gravecrawler returning all the time, and Lotleth Troll having regenerate lets us attack and defend with him to great success. Dark Confidant helps us keep stocked on discard fodder and full of active disruption. After you get set up and hit four mana you can start slamming down Obliterator which can end games all by himself, and eventually you get to Gray Merchant of Asphodel, who routinely gains me 9+ life while dealing 9+ damage.
The win cons are as follows
Lotleth Troll: It's easy to get him to a 5/4 with trample and regenerate.
Liliana: It's rare that people let her ult, but if she does it's usually game over
Obliterator: 5/5 trample with that effect, need I say more?
Gary: He may not win the game out right, but with life swings averaging for me around 16 points, he will put you firmly in control of a match.
The deck is built on synergy, taken to the extreme. Crawler and Ghast are both great with Lili. Ghast is great with fetch lands, which lets us splash a color easily, giving us access to Abrupt Decay and Lotleth Troll, who is good with both Ghast and Crawler. All of these creatures are good with Gray Merchant, who also makes Obliterator better, and I didn't really need a reason to try to play Obliterator. Bob keeps the decks engine running, as stated above. I tried to make the entire creature base have some sort of synergy with one another, and I feel as if I've managed to do so.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
with the deck that you recommended changes to on the pervious post I made, would you recommend splashing green? Will it significantly improve the deck and how are you looking sideboard wise?
Can I substitute dark confidant for phyrexian arena budget wise? what else would you feel could be substituted, mostly land wise, to ease on the budget.
Thank you for your time again, very appreciated
Phyrexian Arena can totally be used in place of Bob, its what I did for a long time, and it affords you a higher curve, which you can use to make the deck more controlling instead of the more Midrange build I run.
I would recommend starting with the mono black deck. The BG version is very expensive due to the fetchlands, and Abrupt Decay is slowly creeping up in price. If you enjoy the mono black deck, proxie the BG splash and play around with it. If it works for you as it has for me, buy in! I would just hate for you to drop quite a bit of cash on a deck you don't enjoy, so take it slow man.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
Bloodghast is one of the most important. I think it should be picked up first but Geralf's is cheaper so most people will get it first. It is really easy to underestimate how important it is to have to that devotion available. If your board gets decimated then Merchant doesn't do anything. Being able to drop a land and gain instant 6 devotion then drop an 8 Devotion Merchant. That's way better than a 2 devotion Merchant.
Geralf's serves a similar purpose because they are hard to deal with permanently and offers 3 Devotion.
That's also why I like Bloodsoaked Champion. Its really easy to bring back. It can trigger its own recursion and that's pretty cool. I don't think most lists for this deck play enough zombies to justify Gravecrawler but I could be wrong because I've never tested it.
https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
I do agree with you on Bloodghast. Without him the deck would not work nearly as well. The free return enables for some crazy plays, and puts a lot of pressure on the opponent as each land you top deck can get you anywhere between 2-8 power on the board for free, sometimes with haste. Obliterator is another star, as I have yet to loose after successfully casting him.
Geralf's Messenger is a weird one for me. I enjoy the card, and the reach he provides, but between Liliana and Phyrexian Arena, the mono black lists three slot is very heavy, and I value Lili and Arena more than the Messenger. That being said, he does enable Gravecrawler so its a bit of a toss up. If you are running Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, Stromgald Crusader becomes a resonable card, being able to give him flying plus pump. If we get more discard outlets (Oona's Prowler, Lotleth Troll, Liliana) Blood Scrivenger maay come into his own, but we will see.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
Little things that stand out to me are your delve creatures. You don't really fill up your graveyard, so you'll not be able to cast them particularly early. If you're not casting them early, then they aren't worth it in my opinion, especially since they don't contribute much to your devotion. Also, does the Nykthos really enable anything special? I suppose it doesn't really hurt anything, so why not include it, but it might be nice to see a mana sink and/or an x-spell in the 60 somewhere.
4x Bloodghast
4x Gatekeeper of Malakir
3x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4x Phyrexian Obliterator
3x Vampire Nighthawk
2x Vampire Nocturnus
Enchatnment
3x Phyrexian Arena
Sorcery
2x Blackmail
1x Mutilate
2x Profane Command
1x Damnation
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Liliana of the Veil
Instant
2x Victim of Night
1x Dismember
Lands
20x Swamp
2x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
3x Bitterblossom
2x Geralf's Messenger
1x Illness in the Ranks
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Leyline of the Void
1x Liliana of the Veil
1x Mutilate
2x Night of Souls' Betrayal
1x Swamp 2x Victim of Night
This is the current list I'm messing around with, mostly inspired because I was sick of Geralf's messenger not being able to block on turn three. So I took one out, sent the other two to sideboard (for control match ups) then added a trio of Nighthawks for that little bit of life gaining deathtouching fun. Since I was effectively running 11 vampires anyway, I decided to throw in two Vampire Nocturnus, just for that little bit of extra turn 4 reach, as well as something else for them to respect other then Cuddles. I do think that I need a bit more mainboard spot removal, but at this stage I'm not sure what to take out.
I'm currently running blackmails over thoughtseize (though I own playsets of each, so its not for budget reasons) because I think the former makes a better late game top deck, and I already tend to be a bit suicidal in my playstyle as it is, especially in the control matches where I move the Bitterblossoms to main.
Board presence isn't a big deal, as most, if not all of our creatures can come back from the grave for cheap (or free), or are incredibly hard to kill efficiently. Sinister Possession, Hissing Miasma, and Underworld Dreams are all a bit too slow for my tastes, and I don't see enough of a disruption suit to really get the games to go long enough to make use of them. I also don't see enough things to fill your graveyard to cast Tas or Angler. If you can't get them cheaper, you'd be better off with something like Grave Titan.
Drana could be good, I'm not sure. It would make both Bitterblossom and the other weaker vamps strong, turning something like Nighthawk into a serious threat. My biggest issue is that I feel like there are better options for this deck, unless you are going for a vamp build. If you are going full on vamps I say to drop the Obilterators, but keep a few Gary's and good full tribal with Cavern of Souls.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
Him not being able to block can be a liability especially if you are on a more mid-range/control plan. Typically you do little to nothing turn 1 and sometimes nothing turn t2 and then turn 3 you need to outclass threats and slow your opponent down and turn 4 you begin to take over the game. Geralf does not help with that because he can't block. Its even worse if you turn 2 is Bloodghast because he can't block either. They really require a low aggressive curve in order to be okay together but that's the way I prefer this deck. I want to drop my stuff and swing and take as big of a chunk out of my opponent as possible. I want them to be so hurt that Grey Merchant is back breaking as opposed to a stabilizing play. I want to reveal Gary and them scoop. I think that's where Messenger and Ghast shine but otherwise their terrible defense gets compounded when your deck strategy really needs that defense to be there.
BTW, a card that actually plays surprisingly good defense is Vampire Hexmage. Its kinda neat main deck tech against Walkers but it has First Strike and in that early stage of the game its really good. Plus its devotion is nice.
I'm not certain Drana is good enough. She is too fragile with too little upside. Creatures in Modern need to provide value coming in or leaving, be easy to get back, or provide such a huge upside that if it sticks around for even a turn it sets your opponent back massively or you ahead massively. Drana fails the first two and her ability is only good if you have at least one other creature on the board and only achieves the "massive" criteria with two or more creatures that aren't Drana. Also, she is a nonbo with Geralf's Messenger so just be aware of that. She does put a turn 4 Nocturnus out of Bolt range...
I'll be honest I'm not sold on her but all in Vampires with Nocturnus could be okay. Nocturnus with Bloodghast is just gross. The problem with Nocturnus is that Swamps are colorless and running 24 of them to hit your 5 drop (Gray Merchant) hurts having a top deck black card. That means you want to reduce lands to 22 or 23 but that hurts Gary. Then you have to start considering that Nocturnus isn't good enough or you drop Gary and you are no longer playing Mono-B Devotion and are just on a Vampire tribal plan. It starts getting into a very gray territory where in order to improve the deck you end up in a completely different game plan.
https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
You are right about Nykthos. I hadn't considered that as a Devotion plan. How about, without Nykthos or Gary you aren't playing Mono-B Devotion? =P
Actually Viscera Seer is really sweet "tech" with Nocturnus. I hadn't considered that. Vampire Nocturnus is really powerful, giving all of your vampires +2/+1 turns even the weakest vamp into a worthwhile predator. Have you ever played this strategy with Blood Artist? I could see some shenanigans with T1 Seer into T2 Artist into T3 Gatekeeper. Also would be tasty with Bloodghast.
Playing all these Vamps opens up Feast of Blood and Urge to Feed. Have you ever tried either of those?
https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097