Well. With the ban Auriok Champion shouldn't be as powerful as before, with Twin disappearing and Jund losing is best matchup. Tons of Trons, Eldrazi, Affinity and decks that beat those (hopefully for us burn is one of them) are awaiting us.
Stony Silence is becoming much more powerful (and its price is a strong signal of that), but I don't know which sb cards are good against Eldrazi atm, maybe Crumble to Dust?
We have to evolve a little bit, but we should wait the PT i think.
I feel Genesis Chamber is pretty good vs Eldrazis, but we would need answers to Affinity. I guess the Impact Tremors build can be good again.
For tron and eldrazis, we can try the boom/bust tech with Flagstones
Well. With the ban Auriok Champion shouldn't be as powerful as before, with Twin disappearing and Jund losing is best matchup. Tons of Trons, Eldrazi, Affinity and decks that beat those (hopefully for us burn is one of them) are awaiting us.
Stony Silence is becoming much more powerful (and its price is a strong signal of that), but I don't know which sb cards are good against Eldrazi atm, maybe Crumble to Dust?
We have to evolve a little bit, but we should wait the PT i think.
I feel Genesis Chamber is pretty good vs Eldrazis, but we would need answers to Affinity. I guess the Impact Tremors build can be good again.
For tron and eldrazis, we can try the boom/bust tech with Flagstones
I played this deck a couple of weeks ago for a change and scraped past Eldrazi Br 2-1.
I use blasting station, gen chamber and Norrin and so did not need to attack much in one game.
I boarded in CTD and realised I had diluted the deck too much with that and Leylines. I decided to alter the deck on the basis that this seems to be a real issue with expensive board cards and a very 1 based curve with 4 drops. My opponent said CTD would not do much against him.
His pyroclasms post board were effective, return to the ranks was great for me (he my have boarded out a relic as I run no fetches to process, just scry lands, shocks and basics. I think he might have expected a Leyline game 2/3, which would make sense in terms of boarding out relics. He may also have reduced the number of processors). He killed champions on sight, but Pridemates got big in the third game- they seem easier to build up. Ulamog won game 2 for him.
I don't think CTD is a good board card vs Eldrazi- it is too slow. Leylines are ok, though, and protect Norrin vs Lilly in other matches. One key card is the card draw that was Kami blocks 2 mana for each player to draw and is now the sea gate that draws just me the card when out of gas. That is great if they hit discard early, as he did in all 3 games.
GQ was not my board card of choice (I can't risk it main in really useful numbers without hurting the tight base), but would be for Tron only if I ran surgical extraction. CTD is only ok vs Tron- it is very slow without pressure- I played that match too- and frankly the deck sucked (as I played it) vs Tron in both real and practice games.....
I don't play the deck often, I prefer more controlling decks like Maybe Martyr Proc or Pillow-Fort style friinge decks, so I do not speak from great experience of the deck.
Any idea on the list with tremors? I've been trying to cut champions and pridemates, but I feel the only thing that can handle the board is chamber. Maybe something in the middle with chambers and one of those I just mentioned?
I'm actually using all of these. 4 impact tremors, 4 champions, 3 pridemates and 4 genesis chambers. I like having the creature threats, as they can get out of hand fairly quickly and provide pressure even when you don't have tremors
Any idea on the list with tremors? I've been trying to cut champions and pridemates, but I feel the only thing that can handle the board is chamber. Maybe something in the middle with chambers and one of those I just mentioned?
I'm actually using all of these. 4 impact tremors, 4 champions, 3 pridemates and 4 genesis chambers. I like having the creature threats, as they can get out of hand fairly quickly and provide pressure even when you don't have tremors
You could try Spirit Bonds if you like flooding the board.
Also, what do people think of Blade Splicer? It's a human that enters the battlefield twice and is a general pain in the butt.
I've been testing this deck a lot lately on Untap.in, and while i do love it, there are some serious meta problems right now. Splinter twin was one of our best matchups, and now the game is flooded with affinity, jund, tron, eldrazi, and infect decks. A lot of these decks really aren't great matchups for us. I, like a lot of people on here, have been experimenting with impact tremors, and have cut out the pridemates and a bunch of the sisters, since the sisters are so weak to any form of removal, and often early lifegain doesn't mean much if the opponent takes control of the board. I also found the problem with pridemates is that to draw them early, with no sisters, is often asking to lose control of the board early, and running too many sisters in the deck gives the opponent time to set up his ultimate strategy, be it tron or infect damage or a swarmy affinity board. I've tried running small hatebear packages of thalia/magus of the moon in the deck, and while sometimes that really makes a difference, some matchups just crush right over that.
Is this deck basically dead competitively in the format with the loss of splinter twin?
I've been testing this deck a lot lately on Untap.in, and while i do love it, there are some serious meta problems right now. Splinter twin was one of our best matchups, and now the game is flooded with affinity, jund, tron, eldrazi, and infect decks. A lot of these decks really aren't great matchups for us. I, like a lot of people on here, have been experimenting with impact tremors, and have cut out the pridemates and a bunch of the sisters, since the sisters are so weak to any form of removal, and often early lifegain doesn't mean much if the opponent takes control of the board. I also found the problem with pridemates is that to draw them early, with no sisters, is often asking to lose control of the board early, and running too many sisters in the deck gives the opponent time to set up his ultimate strategy, be it tron or infect damage or a swarmy affinity board. I've tried running small hatebear packages of thalia/magus of the moon in the deck, and while sometimes that really makes a difference, some matchups just crush right over that.
Is this deck basically dead competitively in the format with the loss of splinter twin?
Really? I've always thought Twin was by far our worst matchup. I could never beat the Grixis Twin decks at my store because their creature removal suite was so spectacular, and I frequently got 2-for-1ed with Kommand, kill a dude and shatter your Genesis Chamber.
Anyway, what do people think of Pia and Kiran Nalaar? They enter the battlefield three times and they can throw Myr tokens at stuff for only three mana. Seems fairly decent late-game as a 4drop.
I can see Elspeth, Knight Errant and Gideon, Ally of Zendikar be good as well.
Elspeth can jump a large Champion or Pridemate to get around blockers. Gideon can +1 to attack. Before twin was banned these plays were horrendous if they tapped our creature in response.
@Fangzie: I would love to play both the tremors plan and the creatures one, but it feels to me like they are not so much compatible with each other. What do you cut to fit everything? tremors are awesome with lightning berserk and the plan can be sustained with suture priest too. I really don't know which way is the better.
I'm still running a plain RW list, so there's plenty of room in the mainboard. I'm also not using Suture priest (not convinced he does enough work) or Auriok Champion (seems too expensive if I'm not running equipment)
I've been testing this deck a lot lately on Untap.in, and while i do love it, there are some serious meta problems right now. Splinter twin was one of our best matchups, and now the game is flooded with affinity, jund, tron, eldrazi, and infect decks. A lot of these decks really aren't great matchups for us. I, like a lot of people on here, have been experimenting with impact tremors, and have cut out the pridemates and a bunch of the sisters, since the sisters are so weak to any form of removal, and often early lifegain doesn't mean much if the opponent takes control of the board. I also found the problem with pridemates is that to draw them early, with no sisters, is often asking to lose control of the board early, and running too many sisters in the deck gives the opponent time to set up his ultimate strategy, be it tron or infect damage or a swarmy affinity board. I've tried running small hatebear packages of thalia/magus of the moon in the deck, and while sometimes that really makes a difference, some matchups just crush right over that.
Is this deck basically dead competitively in the format with the loss of splinter twin?
Really? I've always thought Twin was by far our worst matchup. I could never beat the Grixis Twin decks at my store because their creature removal suite was so spectacular, and I frequently got 2-for-1ed with Kommand, kill a dude and shatter your Genesis Chamber.
You guys obviously weren't running the 4 auriok champions that i was. Seriously, one auriok hits table, exarch turned off, two hit table, combo completely locked out.
I went 4th with it with the only loss to Goblins, which I lost via dice roll. First place was infect, second Coco elves, third merfolk.
I think Sky Hussar is a great addition to the deck becouse it has no great target on it like the Mentor. I'll give it a try and exchange Mentor and Hsssar
So, Uh, how are we feeling about Thalia's Lieutenant? It seems if we go with the full human strategy then this is is super sweet. Beefing up the soul sisters so they can't just get pinged by gut shots, electrolize, electrickery, what have you. On top of that it can be Champions 5-8 instead of the pridemates, which seems pretty sweet.
So, Uh, how are we feeling about Thalia's Lieutenant? It seems if we go with the full human strategy then this is is super sweet. Beefing up the soul sisters so they can't just get pinged by gut shots, electrolize, electrickery, what have you. On top of that it can be Champions 5-8 instead of the pridemates, which seems pretty sweet.
Will definitely be trialing this in place of the pridemates. obviously she'll never reach the same size as a pridemate, but benefits from not needing a sister on the board to become effective. Should hopefully mean slightly fewer dud hands, as well.
Any thoughts for Hanweir Militia Captain/Westvale Cult Leader as Norins 5-8? Once this flips, it gives a Human at the end of each turn, the same time Norin would enter the field. With Thalia's Lieutenant and a Norin also re-entering, that's a lot of counters and a lot of life from the Sisters.
Also, Westvale Abbey produces even more Humans (at a steep cost, sure, but lategame mana sink isn't bad, and it's not like 1 life would hurt us) and pays off with Ormendahl, Profane Prince... worth considering?
Not sure about militia captain. I tend to think you're probably already ahead on the board before this becomes good. It's worth a look, for sure, but I think will require more setup than it might appear.
I'd consider Westvale Abbey as a singleton. And probably will. This is never something I'd be aiming to actually push for, it's clunky, it can be difficult to hit 6 lands unless I'm flooding (in which case I probably won't ever get to use it), and I like mentor better as a mana sink. However, if the stars lined up right, which they probably will occasionally, this could help close out a stagnant game ++edit++ plus it's cool. That's enough reason for me
I was comparing norin sisters with soul sisters itself card by card and the real deal is that sisters have a massive flying menace and a guy with flying. SS has Ajani's pridemate in the ground, but honor of the pure makes sisters have body to pressure opp.
I don't think we can abuse with flyers because there's no room for it because of manyslots dedicated to "norincombo".
By analyzing, I was thinking that a norin sisters at least may have a build with an anthemeffect to make the job done. So here's the list I purpose:
Notes:
Mikaeus can be fetched by ranger;
Bolt works better than path with Magus which can be helped by Thalia's Lieutenant;
Magus of the Moon is a nice human tool to shut some decks, even boltable;
There's no GY hate because I don't see GY strategies that Magus, Thalia, Spellsite or even Worship can't deal with, but the list may (and please do) be criticized
EDIT: changed the fourth Magus in SB to third Stony Silence to improve affinity, Lantern and tron matchups
By analyzing, I was thinking that a norin sisters at least may have a build with an anthemeffect to make the job done. So here's the list I purpose:
=
Notes:
Mikaeus can be fetched by ranger;
Bolt works better than path with Magus which can be helped by Thalia's Lieutenant;
Magus of the Moon is a nice human tool to shut some decks, even boltable;
There's no GY hate because I don't see GY strategies that Magus, Thalia, Spellsite or even Worship can't deal with, but the list may (and please do) be criticized
Have you tested this yet? If so, how was the performance? I'm feeling like Magus of the Moon is a poor comparison to blood moon, due to ease of removal, and I don't think the synergy it brings is enough to offset this weakness. It makes a poor beater and there are enough human triggers with Norin. I'm also curious about Mikaeus. It looks slow, but if it's actually effective, if could be very useful. (Also, for your comment re: Rest in Peace, I personally like it, as it can help with goyf or snapcaster, as well as dealing with anyone else who tries to abuse the graveyard. This is all meta and taste dependent, though, and I've on occasions followed your example and run none myself. It's just I generally feel better with them in)
Have you tested this yet? If so, how was the performance? I'm feeling like Magus of the Moon is a poor comparison to blood moon, due to ease of removal, and I don't think the synergy it brings is enough to offset this weakness. It makes a poor beater and there are enough human triggers with Norin. I'm also curious about Mikaeus. It looks slow, but if it's actually effective, if could be very useful. (Also, for your comment re: Rest in Peace, I personally like it, as it can help with goyf or snapcaster, as well as dealing with anyone else who tries to abuse the graveyard. This is all meta and taste dependent, though, and I've on occasions followed your example and run none myself. It's just I generally feel better with them in)
Haven't tested with lieutenant neither Mikaeus yet, sorry. I tried him in a rogue Quest for Holy Moon deck, but not here. I'm waiting to sleeve up lieutenant and when I do it so, I'll let you know how was my performance. Magus is incredible good. He dies to removals, but opponents have a real bad time with him. He buys me time enough to assemble my combo pieces to win. Blood moon is also very nice, but you don't have norin all the time.
And Tarmogoyf is not a problem to the deck, but snapcaster is. In that case, Thalia provides more hate than RiP would. In fact, Snapcaster decks has a ton of removals. So I board RttR in, which would be a bad thing to have RiP online.
Anyway, I'll test it next week because of release date. I'll keep you guys informed.
Mask of Avacyn is for Worship, for be sure to always have a creature alive and save one from pyroclasm, but i'm not sure is usefull because of wrath/suprem/anger...
I feel Genesis Chamber is pretty good vs Eldrazis, but we would need answers to Affinity. I guess the Impact Tremors build can be good again.
For tron and eldrazis, we can try the boom/bust tech with Flagstones
Ghost Quarter is strip mine against Eldrazi and Tron basically. Against affinity, you board out chambers and bring in Dismember, Wear//Tear, and any Celestial Flare or Mana Tithe you might be running.
EDH - GU Kruphix, God of Horizons, WB Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts, GUR Surrak Dragonclaw, WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores, R Purphoros, God of the Forge, RW Archangel Avacyn
I use blasting station, gen chamber and Norrin and so did not need to attack much in one game.
I boarded in CTD and realised I had diluted the deck too much with that and Leylines. I decided to alter the deck on the basis that this seems to be a real issue with expensive board cards and a very 1 based curve with 4 drops. My opponent said CTD would not do much against him.
His pyroclasms post board were effective, return to the ranks was great for me (he my have boarded out a relic as I run no fetches to process, just scry lands, shocks and basics. I think he might have expected a Leyline game 2/3, which would make sense in terms of boarding out relics. He may also have reduced the number of processors). He killed champions on sight, but Pridemates got big in the third game- they seem easier to build up. Ulamog won game 2 for him.
I don't think CTD is a good board card vs Eldrazi- it is too slow. Leylines are ok, though, and protect Norrin vs Lilly in other matches. One key card is the card draw that was Kami blocks 2 mana for each player to draw and is now the sea gate that draws just me the card when out of gas. That is great if they hit discard early, as he did in all 3 games.
GQ was not my board card of choice (I can't risk it main in really useful numbers without hurting the tight base), but would be for Tron only if I ran surgical extraction. CTD is only ok vs Tron- it is very slow without pressure- I played that match too- and frankly the deck sucked (as I played it) vs Tron in both real and practice games.....
I don't play the deck often, I prefer more controlling decks like Maybe Martyr Proc or Pillow-Fort style friinge decks, so I do not speak from great experience of the deck.
I'm actually using all of these. 4 impact tremors, 4 champions, 3 pridemates and 4 genesis chambers. I like having the creature threats, as they can get out of hand fairly quickly and provide pressure even when you don't have tremors
You could try Spirit Bonds if you like flooding the board.
Also, what do people think of Blade Splicer? It's a human that enters the battlefield twice and is a general pain in the butt.
EDH - GU Kruphix, God of Horizons, WB Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts, GUR Surrak Dragonclaw, WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores, R Purphoros, God of the Forge, RW Archangel Avacyn
Is this deck basically dead competitively in the format with the loss of splinter twin?
something to do with algorithms used in online platforms that screw up randomization especially when it comes to shuffling.
i usually do the bulk of my playtesting on paper. i was able to grind out many of the aggressive decks pre sideboard.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
Really? I've always thought Twin was by far our worst matchup. I could never beat the Grixis Twin decks at my store because their creature removal suite was so spectacular, and I frequently got 2-for-1ed with Kommand, kill a dude and shatter your Genesis Chamber.
EDH - GU Kruphix, God of Horizons, WB Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts, GUR Surrak Dragonclaw, WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores, R Purphoros, God of the Forge, RW Archangel Avacyn
EDH - GU Kruphix, God of Horizons, WB Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts, GUR Surrak Dragonclaw, WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores, R Purphoros, God of the Forge, RW Archangel Avacyn
I can see Elspeth, Knight Errant and Gideon, Ally of Zendikar be good as well.
Elspeth can jump a large Champion or Pridemate to get around blockers. Gideon can +1 to attack. Before twin was banned these plays were horrendous if they tapped our creature in response.
I'm still running a plain RW list, so there's plenty of room in the mainboard. I'm also not using Suture priest (not convinced he does enough work) or Auriok Champion (seems too expensive if I'm not running equipment)
You guys obviously weren't running the 4 auriok champions that i was. Seriously, one auriok hits table, exarch turned off, two hit table, combo completely locked out.
4 Path to Exile
4 Soul Warden
3 Soul's Attendant
3 Ajani's Pridemate
1 Legion Loyalist
4 Norin The Weary
2 Ranger Of Eos
2 Purphoros, God Of The Forge
4 Champion Of The Parish
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Mentor Of The Meek
3 Genesis Chamber
2 Blood Moon
1 Return To The Ranks
1 Proclamation Of Rebirth
5 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Sacred Mesa
4 Clifftop Retreat
2 Battlefield Forge
Sideboard:
3 Mark Of Asylum
3 Wear // Tear
2 Rest In Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Blood Moon
1 Crumble To Dust
1 Proclamation Of Rebirth
I went 4th with it with the only loss to Goblins, which I lost via dice roll. First place was infect, second Coco elves, third merfolk.
I think Sky Hussar is a great addition to the deck becouse it has no great target on it like the Mentor. I'll give it a try and exchange Mentor and Hsssar
4c Gifts Deck Stats: https://bit.ly/2XMPrlY
https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/120495
Will definitely be trialing this in place of the pridemates. obviously she'll never reach the same size as a pridemate, but benefits from not needing a sister on the board to become effective. Should hopefully mean slightly fewer dud hands, as well.
Also, Westvale Abbey produces even more Humans (at a steep cost, sure, but lategame mana sink isn't bad, and it's not like 1 life would hurt us) and pays off with Ormendahl, Profane Prince... worth considering?
I'd consider Westvale Abbey as a singleton. And probably will. This is never something I'd be aiming to actually push for, it's clunky, it can be difficult to hit 6 lands unless I'm flooding (in which case I probably won't ever get to use it), and I like mentor better as a mana sink. However, if the stars lined up right, which they probably will occasionally, this could help close out a stagnant game ++edit++ plus it's cool. That's enough reason for me
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
3 Ranger of Eos
3 Norin the Wary
3 Soul's Attendant
3 Soul Warden
4 Hanweir Militia Captain
2 Champion of the Parish
2 Auriok Champion
Spells
2 Purphoros, God of the Forge
2 Return to the Ranks
3 Genesis Chamber
3 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Legion Loyalist
2 Flooded Strand
1 Westvale Abbey
4 Arid Mesa
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Electrickery
2 Blood Moon
2 Wear // Tear
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Mark of Asylum
2 Stony Silence
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Rest in Peace
1 Aven Mindcensor
New stuff is Hanweir Militia Captain, Thalia's Lieutenant and Westvale Abbey. Only just started testing so I have no conclusions yet. I took out all the Ajani's Pridemate and one or two Genesis Chambers to fit the new cards in, logic being that Thalia's Lieutenant is better than Ajani's Pridemate due to constant human triggers.
I don't think we can abuse with flyers because there's no room for it because of many slots dedicated to "norin combo".
By analyzing, I was thinking that a norin sisters at least may have a build with an anthem effect to make the job done. So here's the list I purpose:
3 Soul Warden
3 Soul's Attendant
3 Norin the Wary
2 Legion Loyalist
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
2 Mikaeus, the Lunarch
3 Magus of the Moon
3 Ranger of Eos
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Return to the Ranks
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Genesis Chamber
LANDS
4 sacred foundry
4 arid mesa
4 cavern of souls
2 Battlefield Forge
1 Mountain
3 Plains
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Return to the Ranks
2 Wear / Tear
1 Electrickery
2 Spellskite
2 Path to Exile
1 Worship
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Stony Silence
Notes:
Mikaeus can be fetched by ranger;
Bolt works better than path with Magus which can be helped by Thalia's Lieutenant;
Magus of the Moon is a nice human tool to shut some decks, even boltable;
There's no GY hate because I don't see GY strategies that Magus, Thalia, Spellsite or even Worship can't deal with, but the list may (and please do) be criticized
EDIT: changed the fourth Magus in SB to third Stony Silence to improve affinity, Lantern and tron matchups
Have you tested this yet? If so, how was the performance? I'm feeling like Magus of the Moon is a poor comparison to blood moon, due to ease of removal, and I don't think the synergy it brings is enough to offset this weakness. It makes a poor beater and there are enough human triggers with Norin. I'm also curious about Mikaeus. It looks slow, but if it's actually effective, if could be very useful. (Also, for your comment re: Rest in Peace, I personally like it, as it can help with goyf or snapcaster, as well as dealing with anyone else who tries to abuse the graveyard. This is all meta and taste dependent, though, and I've on occasions followed your example and run none myself. It's just I generally feel better with them in)
Haven't tested with lieutenant neither Mikaeus yet, sorry. I tried him in a rogue Quest for Holy Moon deck, but not here. I'm waiting to sleeve up lieutenant and when I do it so, I'll let you know how was my performance. Magus is incredible good. He dies to removals, but opponents have a real bad time with him. He buys me time enough to assemble my combo pieces to win. Blood moon is also very nice, but you don't have norin all the time.
And Tarmogoyf is not a problem to the deck, but snapcaster is. In that case, Thalia provides more hate than RiP would. In fact, Snapcaster decks has a ton of removals. So I board RttR in, which would be a bad thing to have RiP online.
Anyway, I'll test it next week because of release date. I'll keep you guys informed.
5-0 !
With 4Worship it seems hard to lose... or at least difficult for the opponent to win
RG Titan Scapeshift GR
UBWAd Nauseam WBU
CEldrazi TronC
Worship seems very nice. But Rhys seems too odd and so does Mask of Avacyn. But loved Worship, Assemble the legion, Spirit Bonds and Abzan Falconer
Replace the Mask of Avacyn with Lightning Greaves, remove one Mentor and Rhys, add 2 Impact Tremors, look good.
Mask of Avacyn is for Worship, for be sure to always have a creature alive and save one from pyroclasm, but i'm not sure is usefull because of wrath/suprem/anger...
RG Titan Scapeshift GR
UBWAd Nauseam WBU
CEldrazi TronC