Hi guys/gals. I have been doing some testing against three new decks- Grixis Jace Control, Bloodbraid Jund, and UW Jace Control. I would like to test against a Temur deck because I think a Jace, Bloodbraid, AV deck will be amazing. Something like the old eternal command deck. Here are my notes so far.
1. We also need to play Jace
I know that seems a bit obvious, but I have been playing one in the mainboard and one in the sideboard and it has been awesome. I am going to stick with this plan for now, but wouldn't fault anyone for playing more copies, especially the decks that are more midrange.
2. Add a negate to your maindeck
This is the first thing I did when Jace was unbanned. Negate will be great right now against opposing jaces and will also get better with the increase in spell based decks.
3. The sky is not falling, at least in my testing
I have found jace to be just as good as advertised playing with him and against him. With that said, I don't think the meta will come down to only playing jace decks. Several times in testing the player couldn't play the jace or just played it to brainstorm knowing full well it would die immediately. I still think Jace will be the single best card in modern (maybe snapcaster mage), but I don't think it will destroy modern. However, I don't have a lot of practice and the jace decks are just starting to be built so maybe there will be a jace deck that dominates too much.
4. The jund matchup is fun and is 50/50
Playing against Jund is awesome. I missed the days of Jeskai vs Jund. It's probably 40/60 in their favor in game one, but post sideboard the matchup flips in our favor. I have had a ton of fun playing against bloodbraid jund even though it's a tougher matchup.
5. Geist still owns Control
Against both Grixis and UW Geist simply owns the matchup. I can't be certain, but I think every single game I landed a Geist I won. I will say that control got a lot better with jace. I used to find the control matchup very favored, not it's probably 50/50 although I haven't tested enough to make any certain conclusions. As the UW decks evolve with Jace this may be a matchup we need to jam a ton to become comfortable with.
All in all I have had a ton of fun with Jace and against jace and bloodbraid decks. I will continue to test as new deck lists are listed. What do you all think of Jace in our deck?
Hi everyone,
I have played a few matches on MTGO since the announcement and I have encountered both BBE & JTMS, even together in Temur decks. Since both Jund and Temur decks are using Tarmogoyfs I think I've seen a lot more of them out there than before. I already adjusted my deck accordingly, taking out Emerge Unscathed & Vapor Snag for Spell Snare and the 4th Path to Exile.
Taking out Emerge really hurts because last week I had an awesome time with that card. I was playing against UG Merfolk and hat already fried a few of my opponent's creatures. I had Geist in play and he had one green Merfolk. I cast Emerge giving Geist protection from green and attack through his blocker. Next turn he casts another green Merfolk. Then, on my upkeep Emerge rebounds and I give Geist protection from red. My opponent asks "Red?" in the chat and when I put Anger of Gods on the stack he conceded.
Since I run Jace as a 1-of I haven't him very often yet. One time just casting him lead to my opponent conceding I was already far ahaed on board at that time though.
@GofyTomcat1:
Your deck looks sweet on paper but I still can't believe that this can actually function with 21 lands. You're playing ten CMC3 cards (including Snappys) and six CMC4 cards. Such a high mana curve without mana dudes or other acceleration usually asks for 23 lands.
I am also running 21 lands but I have nine CMC3 cards and only two CMC4 cards because I often find it hard to get to four lands. Can you ever activate these Colonnades? I am sorry but I am really wondering...
i always felt that Disrupting Shoal and Ancestral Visions belong in the same deck. The card disadvantage of Shoal is cripping to the player. AV mitigates this greatly. However, you most likely have to dedicate 6 slots for the 2 DS: 4 AV mix and would have to reevaluate if you still want to run other cantrips like Opt (most likely not). Serum Visions will still see a full set of but in the past I have seen decks run 2 - 3 Serum Visions for more mid game spells like Cryptic Command alongside Sphinx Revelation and Supreme Verdict.... however those type of decks are more in tune of full out Control then Tempo decks like ours.
Hi Mazeron. I was fiddling with a similar idea today. Disrupting Shoal works really well with Jace, the Mindsculptor. It also works well with my favorite pet card Bedlam Reveler. Here is the list I came up with to try:
I can't give up my beloved Delver. I originally had the list as jeskai and may switch it back. I don't know if I will ever actually build the deck, but if I do I will let you guys know.
As for your list, I say think you should give it a try. I watched HolyShamager play today with a similar list and shoal was very good. He went 3-2 and struggled against some of the more aggressive lists. That's why I thought 2 Echoing Truth would be helpful.
After a fair bit of testing I have come to the conclusion that I started with. Jace the Mindsculptor is a great top end threat for our deck and we only need one or two copies because we get through our deck so quickly. I am running one main and one in the sideboard. Here is my list:
I have been considering adding a Vendilion Clique to get another threat into the deck or a Grim Lavamancer. I would likely cut the Faithless Looting even thought it has been fairly good. It may just not be necessary. Other than that, not much has changed. The sideboard is relatively similar. I just added a Jace for the increase in grindy matchups (open slot from negate going to the mainboard).
Has anyone else adjusted their list? Or are you trying a different version of a Jace list? Every time I make a new list I always come back to this one. I'm just super comfortable with this deck.
Well, I'm trying out Tezzerator for the moment since the deck got what it needed in Jace (already got my first 1st place on the first event with the new banlist)
I'm sure I'll come around to Bolt and Helices soon, probably when the meta settles down a bit and it'll be easier to tune the deck
Congrats Mr. Tzoulis! Although it's not a first place with jeskai, it's always great to hear one of our dedicated posters winning a tournament. That's awesome! Tezzerator is a super sweet deck that is under the radar.
Mazeron- I like your TiTi list. When it was spoiled I bought a playset of regular and foils because I thought it would be soooo good. It didn't fit in my deck, but now with jace out there, TiTi becomes a powerhouse in the right deck. I like the plan of having Geist in the board for the control matchups. I have been fiddling around with a UR list, but nothing substantial yet.
I do think adding a Jace or two to your sideboard would be super beneficial in the grindy matchups. Especially if Jund sticks around.
Jund will be definately sticking around. It is making Grixis DS very punishing to play and Bloodbraid Elf is forcing mediocre control players to make bad decisions.
Abrupt Decay, another control player's nightmare is also making a comeback with the deck.
Traverse DS is now the default DS deck to play because it grinds way better in a control match up. There has been lots of talk about what to do when BBE resolves (counter BBE or counter Cascade). I am kind of pleased that JTMS and BBE are forcing players to learn how to interact with cards in a meaningful way. Sometimes I feel that the older magic cards were a lot more technical then the new ones because of this.
I feel that BBE slants our match up against them slightly in their favor because they attack the board a lot more now. It would take a lot of tight playing to wiggle past this match up. Against Jund in G2 and G3, you definately want to counterspell BBE and Surgical Extraction it from their deck as it is the single card that generates the most value against us.
JTMS rewards proactive decks more than durdly ones. If you attack the board and is slightly ahead or on equal boardstate, JTMS will pull you away with an Unsummon. Spell Queller is also bad now as Abrupt Decay and L.Bolt have a heavier presence now. This puts more emphasis on Geist and Snapcaster to keep the board tidy before landing JTMS to seal the game.
I don't think Delver and JMTS is a thing. Their deck building requirements counter-act against each other. JTMS benefits our tempo builds more and he needs a lot of protection when he lands, so building a board with Young Pyromancer in the early turns with counter magic in your grip when you resolve JTMS might be a thing moving forward.
I am currently playing Saheeli Evo Combo now and having a blast. Punished a lot of durdly or indecisive players as the deck can go full on beatdown with a combo back up plan. 80% of my games I won with just value creatures beating down. I only go for combo when I sense a board state stall coming or against another combo deck.
EDIT: bad grammar becoz not enuff coffee and added one more spoiler.
+my usual 21 lands
(In the flex slot I tried Spell Snare / Mana Tithe / Emerge Unscathed and they are somehow all awesome but I can only use one of them and still don't know which one is best)
It didn't go very well in the new meta. The deck doesn't have a good matchup either against UW Control with Jace or against Jund with BBE.
I was only able to win about 50% of my games which is way lower than before the B&R announcement.
A lot of Jace decks play Lingering Souls which are a nightmare for my deck so I put Staticaster back in my SB.
But the Jace decks aren't that bad, really tough are the BBE decks. BBE into Liliana, Tarmogoyf, K Command or Blightning is devastating. Hand disruption and 3-4 Fulminators in their board make things even worse. -_-
I think I'll go back to a more burn-heavy build, like the one I played at MKM Series in Hamburg, with 3 Boros Charms.
And after I found myself siding out Jace more often then leaving him in I decided to sell my copy for a good price. For me Hazoret for example works much better as my second CMC4 card.
I agree Stevo. I think if someone wants to play a true-aggro control list in modern right now, it really needs to be on the aggro end and must really take advantage of the power of Remand and burn spells. I think you have the right idea. There are a lot of new "grindy" decks going around. Therefore, we don't want to go more grindy because they will likely do it better.
I have always liked to go "through" the grindy matchups specifically Jund. They tend to do themselves a fair amount of damage. Therefore, our burn spells become very good. In addition, Slip Through Space and Emerge Unscathed are very good against these decks that try to clog up the board. If they hit us with a ton of hand disruption we likely can't win. I sure hope they don't adopt the old Bloodbraid Elf into Blightning plan.
In terms of the control matchup my gameplan is always to out spell them early. In a perfect world we land an early threat and can knock them down a bit and then land a Geist to finish if off. However, a huge advantage we have against control is the CMC cost of our deck. We can play a greater number of spells more quickly then they can. For every land they draw in which we draw a spell we are in good shape. I have noticed a lot of the games I am winning against the control decks I often have 3-5 lands total in play. If I do end up with 5+ lands I am often in way worse shape because their top end spells are just stronger than ours. It's still a tough matchup, but definitely winnable.
Some of our matchups have gotten worse, but I am having a ton of fun playing these more midrange games. As the meta begins to react to the grindy/midrange matchups, our deck will become a very good option. I think, similar to death shadow, people will start with the more controlling jace decks and then slowly move to the more proactive versions of a jace deck. I could be wrong, but if big mana decks start to prey on the midrange decks, people will want to tweak their decks to have a slightly more proactive plan against these decks. At least that is my hope :).
Thanks for the awesome tournament report Mazeron! These are super helpful and fun to read.
I really liked you wrap up and card discussion. It kind of reminded me why TITI didn’t work out for me when I tested it. I’m glad you got revenge on burn. It’s one of those matchups that can go either way and it’s actually a very nuanced matchup.
I have kind of been waiting to see which decks rise to the top in the new meta, but I’m pleasantly surprised that the meta seems rather diverse still. I am going to practice against a grixis jace control deck, a RG Ponza deck, Bloodbraid Jund, and a jeskai jace control deck tomorrow night so I will write up a little report on how it goes.
Last week I played a few games online as usual and most of them went well.
Best match: A 2-1 against GB Tron. My opponent was at 4 with Karn and Wurmcoil Engine in play, I had a Geist in play, Izzet Charm in my graveyard and Snappy in hand. So, I attacked with Geist and after he declared the block with his Wurmcoil Engine I used Snappy+Charm to kill my Geist so that the angel token could deal lethal damage
Friday I went to FNM but it was terrible. I went home with a 0-3 record -_-
(lost against Amulet Bloom, Hollow One and 5C Shadow)
So, today I was tired of my Delvers and built the below in the picture. I always wanted to try Madcap Experiment in UWR and that's what I came up with.
- Delvers out, land count up to 22
- Izzet Charm, Lighthouse & 2x Clique to cycle Emperion stranded in hand
- 2x Emerge + 2x Boros Charm to protect Geist & Emperion
- 1x Sakashima to copy either Geist or Emperion
Played three games so far today and won all three, even against BBE Jund
Best moment today: In a game against Ponza my opponent tried to Molten Rain one of my lands but I had Swerve from SB (also good to protect Emperion) and changed the target to his own enchanted land. Felt so good!
@Mazereon: As you can see in my new build, I also love Spell Pierce, Geist and Lavamancer! These cards are awesome and I basically always use them. You are from Austria? Dann können wir ja auf Deutsch schreiben
Since it's not a UWR Tempo deck but rather a UW control list I've put it in a spoiler.
However, I can only recommend watching this video!
It's very well done, well played and the deck just looks awesome
Hey all. Here are my notes from testing. I made a few changeable to the list for the new meta. Nothing substantial but minor changes to help the midrange matchups.
-1 swiftspear
+1 souls scar mage
+1 grim lavamancer (back up to 61 cards)
These are very minor but should help the midrange matchups without harming the combo matchups.
Notes-
BBE Jund
I went 6-4 overall against them in 10 games (3 preboard and 7 postboard). The matchup got a ton better after side boarding. I was 1-2 in the first three games and 5-2 in the boarded games. Here are my overall take aways:
-Grim lavamancer is good right now
-Remand is still awesome.
-Jace destroys jund if they can’t remoce him immediately.
-Bedlam Reveler is a monster in midrange matchups.
-Keep paths for manlands if you can
-BBEis amazing and tough to beat.
All in all I was very happy with the results. The matchup is definitely tough but very winnable especially after sideboard. I sideboard in an additional Jace, an additional bedlam reveler, a celestial purge, and sometimes EE.
It's time for a matchup of the week! I will kill two birds with one stone and pick Boggles for this week.
Boggles matchup
I recently tested against this matchup and have some notes on the matchup. The pre-board games are basically just a race that we likely won't win unless they draw poorly. Try to keep them off any of the lifelink enchantments and keep your fingers crossed.
The sideboard is super important and we have some really good stuff. Here is what I side in
I normally take out some removal and/or burn and maybe remand, but this depends on if I see a leyline of sanctity. Post board we become a bit more controlling, but still have to keep the pressure on early and often. Deflecting Palm is a house in this matchup as is EE. We really need to draw some of our sideboard cards to win, but if we do draw them we are favored.
Overall this is a tough matchup. It can feel almost unwinnable in game one. However, post board we can definitely win games 2 and 3 depending on your sideboard.
Remands are a must and Spell Pierces are awesome. You need to leverage some tempo against them, since remanding a Coronet or a Spirit Mantle is a timewalk for them. It's an abysmal matchup, but wear/tear and deflecting palm with a clock are your only outs.
The new wizard spells may work very well in a delver deck. Having access to 4 more lightning bolt and Counterspell will be nice. I will have to do a little search through wizards. That's if the spoiled cards are real.
Now that it has been confirmed there are a couple of spells I am very interested it. The first is the 2Rlightning bolt that only costs R. I am very interested in the Counterspell if you control a wizard. If you don't it's a Cancel. The 2 drop wizard that doubles an enter the battlefield trigger (snapcaster mage, clique, etc). The card I am most interested for us is the super prowess wizard:
Adeliz, The Cinder Wind 1RU
Legendary Creature- Human Wizard
2/2
Flying, Haste
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, wizards you control get +1/+1 until end of turn.
This card looks awesome. I will likely switch the swiftspears to soul-scar mage, keep grim lavamancer, and add a vendilion clique to have a ton of wizards. It will be fun to try a jeskai wizards deck.
Here is another of my favorites
Ghitu Lavarunner R
Creature — Human Wizard
1/2
As long as there are two or more instant and/or sorcery cards in your graveyard, Ghitu Lavarunner gets +1/+0 and has haste.
I have just lost my will to go recently. Haven't been back since I went 4-0. I sold all my foils to put foil value in my edh deck, which now I think I'm 20 cards away if that from foiling everything that can be foiled which I'm pretty pumped about lol
after the unban of jace. I just have a bunch of control players up here that are going to be slamming jaces left and right. I've lost to jace multiple times before I ever owned one due to a good friend of mine just being a better deck builder than me, and he sucks to lose against. So I think that's part of why I haven't been back recently lol
hope everyone's mtg is going well.
plus I'm not on the prowess build so whats it matter anyways right? lol
Good to hear from you Ruther. This is a bit off topic, but are you a Reds fan? I am a diehard Reds fan (I live in Indiana) and try to make it to a couple of games a year. My favorite all time game is when Griffey Jr. (my favorite player and I'm showing my age) hit three home runs in a game that I went to. It was awesome.
Back to magic. There hasn't been a ton of change to my list actually. I am currently playing around with a UR Wizards Prowess Deck. It has been a ton of fun in testing. Here is the list.
It's really fun to play and plays much more like an aggressive/tempo deck. This is obviously a first draft, but it's really fun to play. I'm really hoping they make something like this at common or uncommon:
Wizard's Illusion UR
Instant
Create two red and blue 1/2 Wizard tokens.
In other new, Bedlam Reveler appears to be finally getting its due. I don't know why it took so long. Now we just need people to get on the JEskai bandwagon.
After testing the UR Wizards deck I feel like I have a fun back up deck for FNM when the cards are out. With that said, I still think jeskai prowess is a superior build. It can just handle so many matchups. I may try to come up with jeskai wizards build, but it's always tough when a deck revolves around a creature type.
I tested last night against GB Tron with great results. I went 8-2 and didn't lose any preboarded games. One of my loses was from flooding so I really feel like we have a very solid Tron matchup. Here are some notes I wrote:
-Early threat is key. Games with Delver were easy wins
-Remand is a house against tron. I have said this before, but every time I play against them it reminds me how good remand is against them.
-Reach is important (Slip Through Space, lightning Bolt, flying, other burn, etc). Finished off multiple games with burn.
-Bouncing Wurmcoil Engine is awesome.
-Deflecting Palm really hurts them.
-The new Tron hate card will likely make this matchup amazing.
-Because this matchup is good and affinity is good I don't think we need Stoney Silence in the board unless lanter and tezzeret pick up.
The deck performed better than anticipated and reminded me why I still love this deck. I still want to play more Jund and will post any notes when I get to test against a good Jund player.
For the sphere, remember that it makes each spell cost more, so be careful. From personal experience, Stony Silence is merely an annoyance for the UBx Tezzerator decks (Ghirapur Aether Grid laughs at stony, along with Bridge, Tezz, Jace and the new Karn), you need strong interaction and a fast clock, so keep that in mind for your game plans.
For the sphere, remember that it makes each spell cost more, so be careful. From personal experience, Stony Silence is merely an annoyance for the UBx Tezzerator decks (Ghirapur Aether Grid laughs at stony, along with Bridge, Tezz, Jace and the new Karn), you need strong interaction and a fast clock, so keep that in mind for your game plans.
I agree Mr. T. I cut Stoney Silence awhile back when I found out it just wasn't warranting a spot. I did notice that the sphere adds one to each spell after the first. That may make it unplayable in my personal version. People who play a more tempo oriented build where everything is flash/instant, it may still work. However, in the more aggressive prowess heavy builds, I think you are correct that the sphere may hurt too much.
I agree with your assessment. It's very similar to what I was talking about above in the tron matchup. The Tezzerator matchups are a bit more nuanced, but similar in the fact that a strong clock and disruption wins the game.
After testing the UR Wizards deck I feel like I have a fun back up deck for FNM when the cards are out. With that said, I still think jeskai prowess is a superior build. It can just handle so many matchups. I may try to come up with jeskai wizards build, but it's always tough when a deck revolves around a creature type.
I tested last night against GB Tron with great results. I went 8-2 and didn't lose any preboarded games. One of my loses was from flooding so I really feel like we have a very solid Tron matchup. Here are some notes I wrote:
-Early threat is key. Games with Delver were easy wins
-Remand is a house against tron. I have said this before, but every time I play against them it reminds me how good remand is against them.
-Reach is important (Slip Through Space, lightning Bolt, flying, other burn, etc). Finished off multiple games with burn.
-Bouncing Wurmcoil Engine is awesome.
-Deflecting Palm really hurts them.
-The new Tron hate card will likely make this matchup amazing.
-Because this matchup is good and affinity is good I don't think we need Stoney Silence in the board unless lanter and tezzeret pick up.
The deck performed better than anticipated and reminded me why I still love this deck. I still want to play more Jund and will post any notes when I get to test against a good Jund player.
I'm glad you dropped stony. I don't think us jeskai players really need it to win against affinity. I dropped it a long time ago. I also have picked up 2 field of ruin in my main deck. Playing 24 land i have the ability to do that though. a delver prowess build probably would just like to run spreading sea's or molten rain.
I definitely would not worry about that tron version for sure if you are delver. The aggression swings the match heavily in your favor!
And about being a reds fan, i actually have only gone to a few games. I dont really watch baseball much. I went to that game as a family outing with my family and my nana and papal. but thats cool you only live in Indiana! I live in Dayton Ohio. I actually lived in indiana for awhile as a kid. Brookville, Osgood, Mt Caramel to name a few towns lol
1. We also need to play Jace
I know that seems a bit obvious, but I have been playing one in the mainboard and one in the sideboard and it has been awesome. I am going to stick with this plan for now, but wouldn't fault anyone for playing more copies, especially the decks that are more midrange.
2. Add a negate to your maindeck
This is the first thing I did when Jace was unbanned. Negate will be great right now against opposing jaces and will also get better with the increase in spell based decks.
3. The sky is not falling, at least in my testing
I have found jace to be just as good as advertised playing with him and against him. With that said, I don't think the meta will come down to only playing jace decks. Several times in testing the player couldn't play the jace or just played it to brainstorm knowing full well it would die immediately. I still think Jace will be the single best card in modern (maybe snapcaster mage), but I don't think it will destroy modern. However, I don't have a lot of practice and the jace decks are just starting to be built so maybe there will be a jace deck that dominates too much.
4. The jund matchup is fun and is 50/50
Playing against Jund is awesome. I missed the days of Jeskai vs Jund. It's probably 40/60 in their favor in game one, but post sideboard the matchup flips in our favor. I have had a ton of fun playing against bloodbraid jund even though it's a tougher matchup.
5. Geist still owns Control
Against both Grixis and UW Geist simply owns the matchup. I can't be certain, but I think every single game I landed a Geist I won. I will say that control got a lot better with jace. I used to find the control matchup very favored, not it's probably 50/50 although I haven't tested enough to make any certain conclusions. As the UW decks evolve with Jace this may be a matchup we need to jam a ton to become comfortable with.
All in all I have had a ton of fun with Jace and against jace and bloodbraid decks. I will continue to test as new deck lists are listed. What do you all think of Jace in our deck?
I have played a few matches on MTGO since the announcement and I have encountered both BBE & JTMS, even together in Temur decks. Since both Jund and Temur decks are using Tarmogoyfs I think I've seen a lot more of them out there than before. I already adjusted my deck accordingly, taking out Emerge Unscathed & Vapor Snag for Spell Snare and the 4th Path to Exile.
Taking out Emerge really hurts because last week I had an awesome time with that card. I was playing against UG Merfolk and hat already fried a few of my opponent's creatures. I had Geist in play and he had one green Merfolk. I cast Emerge giving Geist protection from green and attack through his blocker. Next turn he casts another green Merfolk. Then, on my upkeep Emerge rebounds and I give Geist protection from red. My opponent asks "Red?" in the chat and when I put Anger of Gods on the stack he conceded.
Since I run Jace as a 1-of I haven't him very often yet. One time just casting him lead to my opponent conceding
@GofyTomcat1:
Your deck looks sweet on paper but I still can't believe that this can actually function with 21 lands. You're playing ten CMC3 cards (including Snappys) and six CMC4 cards. Such a high mana curve without mana dudes or other acceleration usually asks for 23 lands.
I am also running 21 lands but I have nine CMC3 cards and only two CMC4 cards because I often find it hard to get to four lands. Can you ever activate these Colonnades? I am sorry but I am really wondering...
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Bedlam Reveler
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Remand
4 Disrupting Shoal
3 Opt
3 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Spell Snare
1 Vapor Snag
1 Electrolyze
2 Cryptic Command
I can't give up my beloved Delver. I originally had the list as jeskai and may switch it back. I don't know if I will ever actually build the deck, but if I do I will let you guys know.
As for your list, I say think you should give it a try. I watched HolyShamager play today with a similar list and shoal was very good. He went 3-2 and struggled against some of the more aggressive lists. That's why I thought 2 Echoing Truth would be helpful.
3 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Bedlam Reveler
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
1 Boros Charm
1 Vapor Snag
1 Echoing Truth
3 Path to Exile
2 Remand
1 Negate
1 Spell Pierce
1 Faithless Looting
3 Opt
3 Serum Visions
1 Slip Through Space
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
2 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Spirebluff Canal
1 Glacial Fotress
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
I have been considering adding a Vendilion Clique to get another threat into the deck or a Grim Lavamancer. I would likely cut the Faithless Looting even thought it has been fairly good. It may just not be necessary. Other than that, not much has changed. The sideboard is relatively similar. I just added a Jace for the increase in grindy matchups (open slot from negate going to the mainboard).
Has anyone else adjusted their list? Or are you trying a different version of a Jace list? Every time I make a new list I always come back to this one. I'm just super comfortable with this deck.
I'm sure I'll come around to Bolt and Helices soon, probably when the meta settles down a bit and it'll be easier to tune the deck
Mazeron- I like your TiTi list. When it was spoiled I bought a playset of regular and foils because I thought it would be soooo good. It didn't fit in my deck, but now with jace out there, TiTi becomes a powerhouse in the right deck. I like the plan of having Geist in the board for the control matchups. I have been fiddling around with a UR list, but nothing substantial yet.
I do think adding a Jace or two to your sideboard would be super beneficial in the grindy matchups. Especially if Jund sticks around.
Abrupt Decay, another control player's nightmare is also making a comeback with the deck.
Traverse DS is now the default DS deck to play because it grinds way better in a control match up. There has been lots of talk about what to do when BBE resolves (counter BBE or counter Cascade). I am kind of pleased that JTMS and BBE are forcing players to learn how to interact with cards in a meaningful way. Sometimes I feel that the older magic cards were a lot more technical then the new ones because of this.
I feel that BBE slants our match up against them slightly in their favor because they attack the board a lot more now. It would take a lot of tight playing to wiggle past this match up. Against Jund in G2 and G3, you definately want to counterspell BBE and Surgical Extraction it from their deck as it is the single card that generates the most value against us.
JTMS rewards proactive decks more than durdly ones. If you attack the board and is slightly ahead or on equal boardstate, JTMS will pull you away with an Unsummon. Spell Queller is also bad now as Abrupt Decay and L.Bolt have a heavier presence now. This puts more emphasis on Geist and Snapcaster to keep the board tidy before landing JTMS to seal the game.
I don't think Delver and JMTS is a thing. Their deck building requirements counter-act against each other. JTMS benefits our tempo builds more and he needs a lot of protection when he lands, so building a board with Young Pyromancer in the early turns with counter magic in your grip when you resolve JTMS might be a thing moving forward.
EDIT: bad grammar becoz not enuff coffee and added one more spoiler.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
I tested with a 1-of JTMS online and at last week's FNM with this:
4 Path to Exile
4 Serum Visions
2 Spell Pierce
1 Mana Leak
2 Remand
1 Izzet Charm
1 Spell Snare / 1 Mana Tithe / 1 Emerge Unscathed
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
1 Boros Charm
1 Jeskai Charm
1 Search for Azcanta
Creatures (12)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Vendilion Clique
Planeswalker (2)
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
+my usual 21 lands
(In the flex slot I tried Spell Snare / Mana Tithe / Emerge Unscathed and they are somehow all awesome but I can only use one of them and still don't know which one is best)
It didn't go very well in the new meta. The deck doesn't have a good matchup either against UW Control with Jace or against Jund with BBE.
I was only able to win about 50% of my games which is way lower than before the B&R announcement.
A lot of Jace decks play Lingering Souls which are a nightmare for my deck so I put Staticaster back in my SB.
But the Jace decks aren't that bad, really tough are the BBE decks. BBE into Liliana, Tarmogoyf, K Command or Blightning is devastating. Hand disruption and 3-4 Fulminators in their board make things even worse. -_-
I think I'll go back to a more burn-heavy build, like the one I played at MKM Series in Hamburg, with 3 Boros Charms.
And after I found myself siding out Jace more often then leaving him in I decided to sell my copy for a good price. For me Hazoret for example works much better as my second CMC4 card.
I have always liked to go "through" the grindy matchups specifically Jund. They tend to do themselves a fair amount of damage. Therefore, our burn spells become very good. In addition, Slip Through Space and Emerge Unscathed are very good against these decks that try to clog up the board. If they hit us with a ton of hand disruption we likely can't win. I sure hope they don't adopt the old Bloodbraid Elf into Blightning plan.
In terms of the control matchup my gameplan is always to out spell them early. In a perfect world we land an early threat and can knock them down a bit and then land a Geist to finish if off. However, a huge advantage we have against control is the CMC cost of our deck. We can play a greater number of spells more quickly then they can. For every land they draw in which we draw a spell we are in good shape. I have noticed a lot of the games I am winning against the control decks I often have 3-5 lands total in play. If I do end up with 5+ lands I am often in way worse shape because their top end spells are just stronger than ours. It's still a tough matchup, but definitely winnable.
Some of our matchups have gotten worse, but I am having a ton of fun playing these more midrange games. As the meta begins to react to the grindy/midrange matchups, our deck will become a very good option. I think, similar to death shadow, people will start with the more controlling jace decks and then slowly move to the more proactive versions of a jace deck. I could be wrong, but if big mana decks start to prey on the midrange decks, people will want to tweak their decks to have a slightly more proactive plan against these decks. At least that is my hope :).
I really liked you wrap up and card discussion. It kind of reminded me why TITI didn’t work out for me when I tested it. I’m glad you got revenge on burn. It’s one of those matchups that can go either way and it’s actually a very nuanced matchup.
I have kind of been waiting to see which decks rise to the top in the new meta, but I’m pleasantly surprised that the meta seems rather diverse still. I am going to practice against a grixis jace control deck, a RG Ponza deck, Bloodbraid Jund, and a jeskai jace control deck tomorrow night so I will write up a little report on how it goes.
Last week I played a few games online as usual and most of them went well.
Best match: A 2-1 against GB Tron. My opponent was at 4 with Karn and Wurmcoil Engine in play, I had a Geist in play, Izzet Charm in my graveyard and Snappy in hand. So, I attacked with Geist and after he declared the block with his Wurmcoil Engine I used Snappy+Charm to kill my Geist so that the angel token could deal lethal damage
Friday I went to FNM but it was terrible. I went home with a 0-3 record -_-
(lost against Amulet Bloom, Hollow One and 5C Shadow)
So, today I was tired of my Delvers and built the below in the picture. I always wanted to try Madcap Experiment in UWR and that's what I came up with.
- Delvers out, land count up to 22
- Izzet Charm, Lighthouse & 2x Clique to cycle Emperion stranded in hand
- 2x Emerge + 2x Boros Charm to protect Geist & Emperion
- 1x Sakashima to copy either Geist or Emperion
Played three games so far today and won all three, even against BBE Jund
Best moment today: In a game against Ponza my opponent tried to Molten Rain one of my lands but I had Swerve from SB (also good to protect Emperion) and changed the target to his own enchanted land. Felt so good!
@Mazereon: As you can see in my new build, I also love Spell Pierce, Geist and Lavamancer! These cards are awesome and I basically always use them. You are from Austria? Dann können wir ja auf Deutsch schreiben
Since it's not a UWR Tempo deck but rather a UW control list I've put it in a spoiler.
However, I can only recommend watching this video!
It's very well done, well played and the deck just looks awesome
-1 swiftspear
+1 souls scar mage
+1 grim lavamancer (back up to 61 cards)
These are very minor but should help the midrange matchups without harming the combo matchups.
Notes-
BBE Jund
I went 6-4 overall against them in 10 games (3 preboard and 7 postboard). The matchup got a ton better after side boarding. I was 1-2 in the first three games and 5-2 in the boarded games. Here are my overall take aways:
-Grim lavamancer is good right now
-Remand is still awesome.
-Jace destroys jund if they can’t remoce him immediately.
-Bedlam Reveler is a monster in midrange matchups.
-Keep paths for manlands if you can
-BBEis amazing and tough to beat.
All in all I was very happy with the results. The matchup is definitely tough but very winnable especially after sideboard. I sideboard in an additional Jace, an additional bedlam reveler, a celestial purge, and sometimes EE.
Bogles
To follow shortly.
Boggles matchup
I recently tested against this matchup and have some notes on the matchup. The pre-board games are basically just a race that we likely won't win unless they draw poorly. Try to keep them off any of the lifelink enchantments and keep your fingers crossed.
The sideboard is super important and we have some really good stuff. Here is what I side in
In- EE, Wear // Tear, Flashfreeze, Blessed Alliance, 2x Deflecting Palm
I normally take out some removal and/or burn and maybe remand, but this depends on if I see a leyline of sanctity. Post board we become a bit more controlling, but still have to keep the pressure on early and often. Deflecting Palm is a house in this matchup as is EE. We really need to draw some of our sideboard cards to win, but if we do draw them we are favored.
Overall this is a tough matchup. It can feel almost unwinnable in game one. However, post board we can definitely win games 2 and 3 depending on your sideboard.
Now that it has been confirmed there are a couple of spells I am very interested it. The first is the 2R lightning bolt that only costs R. I am very interested in the Counterspell if you control a wizard. If you don't it's a Cancel. The 2 drop wizard that doubles an enter the battlefield trigger (snapcaster mage, clique, etc). The card I am most interested for us is the super prowess wizard:
Adeliz, The Cinder Wind 1RU
Legendary Creature- Human Wizard
2/2
Flying, Haste
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, wizards you control get +1/+1 until end of turn.
This card looks awesome. I will likely switch the swiftspears to soul-scar mage, keep grim lavamancer, and add a vendilion clique to have a ton of wizards. It will be fun to try a jeskai wizards deck.
Here is another of my favorites
Ghitu Lavarunner R
Creature — Human Wizard
1/2
As long as there are two or more instant and/or sorcery cards in your graveyard, Ghitu Lavarunner gets +1/+0 and has haste.
Anything else you guys are interested in?
after the unban of jace. I just have a bunch of control players up here that are going to be slamming jaces left and right. I've lost to jace multiple times before I ever owned one due to a good friend of mine just being a better deck builder than me, and he sucks to lose against. So I think that's part of why I haven't been back recently lol
hope everyone's mtg is going well.
plus I'm not on the prowess build so whats it matter anyways right?
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Back to magic. There hasn't been a ton of change to my list actually. I am currently playing around with a UR Wizards Prowess Deck. It has been a ton of fun in testing. Here is the list.
2 Soul-Scar Mage
2 Stormchaser Mage
3 Adeliz, the Cinder Wind
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Bedlam Reveler
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Wizard's Lightning
1 Electrolyze
3 Vapor Snag
2 Distortion Strike
2 Remand
2 Wizard's Retort
1 Spell Pierce
1 Echoing Truth
4 Opt
3 Serum Visions
1 Cryptic Command
2 Flooded Strand
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
4 Island
1 Mountain
4 Spirebluff Canal
It's really fun to play and plays much more like an aggressive/tempo deck. This is obviously a first draft, but it's really fun to play. I'm really hoping they make something like this at common or uncommon:
Wizard's Illusion UR
Instant
Create two red and blue 1/2 Wizard tokens.
In other new, Bedlam Reveler appears to be finally getting its due. I don't know why it took so long. Now we just need people to get on the JEskai bandwagon.
I tested last night against GB Tron with great results. I went 8-2 and didn't lose any preboarded games. One of my loses was from flooding so I really feel like we have a very solid Tron matchup. Here are some notes I wrote:
-Early threat is key. Games with Delver were easy wins
-Remand is a house against tron. I have said this before, but every time I play against them it reminds me how good remand is against them.
-Reach is important (Slip Through Space, lightning Bolt, flying, other burn, etc). Finished off multiple games with burn.
-Bouncing Wurmcoil Engine is awesome.
-Deflecting Palm really hurts them.
-The new Tron hate card will likely make this matchup amazing.
-Because this matchup is good and affinity is good I don't think we need Stoney Silence in the board unless lanter and tezzeret pick up.
The deck performed better than anticipated and reminded me why I still love this deck. I still want to play more Jund and will post any notes when I get to test against a good Jund player.
I agree Mr. T. I cut Stoney Silence awhile back when I found out it just wasn't warranting a spot. I did notice that the sphere adds one to each spell after the first. That may make it unplayable in my personal version. People who play a more tempo oriented build where everything is flash/instant, it may still work. However, in the more aggressive prowess heavy builds, I think you are correct that the sphere may hurt too much.
I agree with your assessment. It's very similar to what I was talking about above in the tron matchup. The Tezzerator matchups are a bit more nuanced, but similar in the fact that a strong clock and disruption wins the game.
I'm glad you dropped stony. I don't think us jeskai players really need it to win against affinity. I dropped it a long time ago. I also have picked up 2 field of ruin in my main deck. Playing 24 land i have the ability to do that though. a delver prowess build probably would just like to run spreading sea's or molten rain.
I definitely would not worry about that tron version for sure if you are delver. The aggression swings the match heavily in your favor!
And about being a reds fan, i actually have only gone to a few games. I dont really watch baseball much. I went to that game as a family outing with my family and my nana and papal. but thats cool you only live in Indiana! I live in Dayton Ohio. I actually lived in indiana for awhile as a kid. Brookville, Osgood, Mt Caramel to name a few towns lol
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.