notables: 4 opt, 2 chart a course and 1 search for azcanta
Thanks for sharing this Need_More_DPS. I also think the three Monastery Mentor are note worthy as well. It looks like he is coming to similar conclusions as many of us on here. Chart a Course has legs in the main deck and Search for Azcanta is very good. Search doesn't quite fit into my deck, but chart does. I am now in "tinkering" stage so this information is great to see.
Preboard- How the jeskai aggro/tempo deck fairs against storm is very much dependent on the specific build of jeskai aggro/tempo. Theoretically we have a very good matchup against storm. A clock backed by disruption is great against storm. With that said, the new style storm deck is very resilient and can go in the long game. In addition, Empty the Warrens in the mid game can be tough for us to deal with.
Spell Pierce is extremely valuable in this matchup as they play 17-18 lands and spell pierce is often a straight counter spell. Gifts Ungiven is a 4 CMC spell so pierce often can be utilized in the mid game as well. It's much easier for the storm player to "go off" with a Baral, Chief of Compliance and/or Goblin Electromancer on the board. However, it is very tough to get one to stick against a deck with path, bolt, helix, and vapor snag. If your jeskai tempo/prowess deck depends more on midrange aspects to win the matchup is tougher, but can still be won. If we can land an early threat I think we are favored to win against most storm hands. Their god hands will likely beat us regardless of what we have, but overall I think we are one of the better equipped decks to deal with storm especially in game one. Even though we are one of the best equipped decks to fight storm I would still say the matchup is 60/40 at best and is likely 50/50 in game one. That's why storm is growing so quickly. The counter magic in modern simply has a hard time matching up with the speed and power of spells and threats.
Post board strategy- Like I said above, we want to become a aggro/control or tempo style deck against them. Playing against storm can be very hard and getting reps against a good storm player is super valuable. The mistake a lot of people make is waiting to long to counter a spell in hopes to get the payoff spell. While that is normally the correct way to go about it, it is often not correct against storm because their payoff spells are storm spells and you only counter the first copy {unless you play counterflux). We basically want to start clocking them early and keep laying down speed bumps for them. Some great Surgical extraction targets are Manamorphose and the rituals. It's also great to Shadow of Doubt their Gifts Ungiven and then extract all copies. I don't normally extract the creatures because we have so many answers for small creatures.
I feel fairly comfortable against UR Storm, especially postboard. Just another reason why jeskai delver/tempo is well positioned in the current modern meta.
good write up Curdbros!
my experience with Storm is limited. the version i played against is the pre G.Probe ban version that already had Baral in it. that version was somewhat easier to beat because the Storm player would take risks like paying life for G.Probe and that put them in Bolt range. the new version doesn't have that luxury for us anymore.
Baral and Goblin Electromancer are one of their win conditions. If you keep them off the board you can win the game easily. that means you have to cantrip into removal and dodge their counter magic at crucial moments. they WILL protect their Baral / Electromancer with counter magic like Remand and Dispel so watch out for untapped mana but usually they only have Remand pre sideboard.
In G2, if they discard Grapeshot (because they have another in hand), Surgical Extraction it! Keep counter magic up for Empty The Warrens, you might need 2 to beat Empty the Warrens because they WILL have counter magic defence when the combo goes off.
Things to look out for:
1. If they discard Past in Flames or Grapeshot, those are big Surgical Extraction targets.
2. In the early game, keep them off Baral or Goblin Electromancer with soft removal.
3. G1, they have Remand. G2, they will have Dispel/Spell Pierce/Spell Snare
4. You have 2 turns to play creatures aggressively. maybe 3 because they do not want to trade away their own creatures (unless they have another in hand).
Possible Sideboard Tech against Graveyard Stratgies:
1. Rest in Peace: But it hits our Snapcaster Mage stratgy also.
2. Leyline of the Void: Its black. And you need to play a full playset and Mulligan aggressively in G2 and G3...
3. Arcane Laboratory: Possibly the best option atm. Hits us too but it hits them way harder as we are able to play in both player's turns.
4. Rule of Law: Same as Acane Laboratory
5. Spirit of the Labyrinth: Very decent
6. Worship: A great option actually
Our deck is tradtionally soft against Combo but we can tilt the odds slightly in our favor if we practice enough with it.
I agree with a lot of what you said about Ross Merriem's video. Spell Pierce is a very polarizing card. It can be amazing or terrible. I would probably never run more than 2 copies of the card only because it becomes a bad draw after about turn 4 usually. A card that is being overlooked in a lot of these decks is Vapor Snag. The card is great in this deck and the 1 damage sometimes matters. Snaging a big eldrazi or delve threat feels great and it's a 1 costed road bump for some really tough to deal with threats.
I also think you are correct about Spell Queller. I have been playing one copy of the card in the main deck and will likely add another to the sideboard. The card is just really well positioned right now. Every time I play spell queller I tell my brother not to let me remove it from the deck the next time I start tinkering, but my brewing sickness always takes over :).
Vapor Snag is life loss, it may matter (I've killed a couple people under their worship)
Haven't been able to play a lot this week due to midterms and a strike tomorrow >.< , last time I played I went 2-3 because of minor mistakes against esper control and afterwards bad running. I was considering adding the 3rd spell pierce in the main and maaaaaybe putting a couple of spell snares in the SB. They'll help against control, burn and storm. I'll Probably try them out this Saturday, so I'll keep you posted.
My matchup was definitely better when I had Swiftspears instead of Pyromancers, owing to more potential burst damage vs consistent DPT and/or value. Post SB I'm on the same plan as the Bros with 2 Surgical, 1 Rest in Peace, 1 Clique, 1 Mindcensor and from Saturday onward the snares. I also bring in anger and staticaster to fight off their Empty the Warrens plan. I mostly side out the protection package(Stance and Emerge), the lone snag, one or 2 Hazorets, electrolyze and might cut 1 snapcaster because of RiP. In general it's a match-up that lines pretty well with our gameplan, BUT be aware that most lists play Blood Moon, so be careful with your fetching since we have a greedy mana base.
Good luck with your Midterms!
Vapor Snag is a really good card. I have won many games that I otherwise might have loss with it. Its definately one of my pet cards...
Hi everyone. I asked my viewers which deck they'd like to see next (http://www.strawpoll.me/14242602), and I am hoping to get some feedback from this thread on which Jeskai Delver build to focus on. The main benefit I see to running a delver list over the popular Tempo lists, is tjat you have an earlier clock, and in theory the matchups like RG Valakut should be better.
Hi everyone. I asked my viewers which deck they'd like to see next (http://www.strawpoll.me/14242602), and I am hoping to get some feedback from this thread on which Jeskai Delver build to focus on. The main benefit I see to running a delver list over the popular Tempo lists, is tjat you have an earlier clock, and in theory the matchups like RG Valakut should be better.
I'm sure I can speak for most of the regular posters on this topic that we are huge fans of your Youtube content. You helped put and keep Jeskai Geist on the map. It's great to see you on here. I admit I did vote for Jeskai Delver on your strawpole, but I also love jeskai aggro. I will put together a major breakdown of most of the most important points and post it shortly, but I wanted to say hi first and welcome to the jeskai prowess/delver topic!
EDIT- added later
The starting point to a jeskai delver deck is really the creature base. The creatures you prefer or would like to play will really start to sculpt the remainder of your deck. Most of the core spells like Path to Exile, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Helix, Remand, etc are in all of the decks. However, the creature base changes. I like to say this is the best Remand deck in modern. I will start with a quick overview of the creatures.
Once you know what style of deck you would prefer to play in game 1 and the creature base that coincides with that plan we can build spells with those in mind.
Hi everyone. I asked my viewers which deck they'd like to see next (http://www.strawpoll.me/14242602), and I am hoping to get some feedback from this thread on which Jeskai Delver build to focus on. The main benefit I see to running a delver list over the popular Tempo lists, is tjat you have an earlier clock, and in theory the matchups like RG Valakut should be better.
Maybe you can build one that has Young Pyromancer and Opt in it. I play Smuggler's Copter in mine but I can understand if its not your thing because of Kolaghan's Command.
Or you can try Takase Ryousuke's version (refer to attached picture)
Hi guys
I've been following this thread for a bunch of weeks now, but now I finally made it - I created an account so I can participate in the discussion
First, I'd like to thank you all for the encouraging and inspiring thoughts you shared here. I'm playing Jeskai tempo/delver/whatever for quite awhile now, but your posts really helped me in a lot of ways. There are some cards I didn't consider as options before e.g. Hazoret the Fervent. In other cases, it was super helpful to see that cards I thought were great for the deck were actually found in similar lists. The best example for this is the recent addition of Chart a Course. Last but not least, hearing of all your experiences made me believe in the viability of my deck, which in turn encouraged me to go to my first modern fnm.
This List differs from the one I played at the fnm 2 weeks ago in a few aspects:
1. I added a 4th Snapcaster Mage and a copy of Hazoret the Fervent, but removed a Delver of Secrets. I'm still testing which of the 1 cmc creatures (Delver or Swiftspear) I want to keep as a four of. The current Spilt is the result of my love for Monastery Swiftspear and the fact that she rarely does nothing before being removed.
2. I removed Spell Snare for a second copy of Spell Pierce
3. I used to play two copies of Mishra's Bauble. I really liked it and would love to fit it in again because of the sweet interaction with Monastery Swiftspear and Delver of Secrets in early game. However, the card just feels kind of awkward in top deck mode and often feels underwhelming with neither Delver, Swiftspear or at least a fetch land in play...
4. I played Chandra, Pyromaster in the Sideboard instead of Chandra, Torch of Defiance. The latter seems more powerful to me, but I'm not quite sure if the former wouldn't suit the deck better because of its ability to remove a blocker while dealing 1 damage with her +1. What do you Think?
Please let me know what you think of my deck list. I would be especially thankful for comments on the sideboard
@GreatNate: Cool to see you here. Recently I have found myself watching your youtube videos quite often. I really liked your jeskai Geist lists.
Hi everyone. I asked my viewers which deck they'd like to see next (http://www.strawpoll.me/14242602), and I am hoping to get some feedback from this thread on which Jeskai Delver build to focus on. The main benefit I see to running a delver list over the popular Tempo lists, is tjat you have an earlier clock, and in theory the matchups like RG Valakut should be better.[/url]
Hi Nathan,
awesome to see you here in our forum. Of course I voted for Jeskai Delver. I am watching your videos on a weekly basis but when I saw your post I checked FB where I asked you for advice when I started playing MtG again back in summer 2015 with a UW Delver list
About 2,5 years have past since then and for 2 years I've been playing UWR Delver and nothing else, and I am still loving it.
There are several "valid" approaches for playing Jeskai I think and I would mainly divide them in three categories: lists with 24 lands, lists with 20-21 land, and lists with 18-19 lands. The Jeskai Geist list you played so long on your channel fits the first category. Other land-heavy lists would be Kiki Control, Nahiri Control and pure Jeskai Control.
The main lists you'll find here are either aggressive lists like CurdBros' or MrTzoulis' lists with 18-19 lands or slower lists like mine or from GofyTomcat1. The aggressive lists usually run 7-8 CMC1 threats (4 Delvers + 3-4 Swiftspears) and 8-10 cantrips, the slower lists with 21 lands only run 4 Delvers, no Swiftspears and 4-8 cantrips. The aggressive type might have a better matchup against RG Valakut but of course I'd love to see you play a list like mine with 21 lands.
The list works very well and I'd love to see you give it a shot, but no matter which Jeskai Delver list you choose to play: please play a list without Spell Queller. There are too many videos online already with those lists... Good luck and have fun!
Hi guys
I've been following this thread for a bunch of weeks now, but now I finally made it - I created an account so I can participate in the discussion
First, I'd like to thank you all for the encouraging and inspiring thoughts you shared here. I'm playing Jeskai tempo/delver/whatever for quite awhile now, but your posts really helped me in a lot of ways. There are some cards I didn't consider as options before e.g. Hazoret the Fervent. In other cases, it was super helpful to see that cards I thought were great for the deck were actually found in similar lists. The best example for this is the recent addition of Chart a Course. Last but not least, hearing of all your experiences made me believe in the viability of my deck, which in turn encouraged me to go to my first modern fnm.
This List differs from the one I played at the fnm 2 weeks ago in a few aspects:
1. I added a 4th Snapcaster Mage and a copy of Hazoret the Fervent, but removed a Delver of Secrets. I'm still testing which of the 1 cmc creatures (Delver or Swiftspear) I want to keep as a four of. The current Spilt is the result of my love for Monastery Swiftspear and the fact that she rarely does nothing before being removed.
2. I removed Spell Snare for a second copy of Spell Pierce
3. I used to play two copies of Mishra's Bauble. I really liked it and would love to fit it in again because of the sweet interaction with Monastery Swiftspear and Delver of Secrets in early game. However, the card just feels kind of awkward in top deck mode and often feels underwhelming with neither Delver, Swiftspear or at least a fetch land in play...
4. I played Chandra, Pyromaster in the Sideboard instead of Chandra, Torch of Defiance. The latter seems more powerful to me, but I'm not quite sure if the former wouldn't suit the deck better because of its ability to remove a blocker while dealing 1 damage with her +1. What do you Think?
Please let me know what you think of my deck list. I would be especially thankful for comments on the sideboard
@GreatNate: Cool to see you here. Recently I have found myself watching your youtube videos quite often. I really liked your jeskai Geist lists.
Welcome to the jeskai delver/prowess topic! It's always great to see new posters becoming active participants. The collective knowledge of all of you guys/gals has really helped me personally and hopefully others.
I like your list a lot. It falls into the Aggro end of the spectrum and looks a lot like Mr. T's list. As you likely already know, I would suggest keeping the delvers and swiftspears for an aggressive start. However, like StevomatUWR said above, there is definitely a great way to play the deck without an abundance of one drop threats. As for the list, the only suggestion I would make is to get the fourth Lightning Bolt into the list. Some people would say it's crazy to only run 3, but I have done so in the past, so it's not crazy. With that said, there is no other card in modern that is so efficient at killing the opponent and their stuff :). Other than that I think it looks great. I like that Cligue and chandra along with the negate, dispel, give you a chance to side into a more midrange deck when necessary.
Now for your questions.
I personally prefer spell pierce over spell snare. Both are great, but I have found that in the aggressive decks particularly that spell pierce has performed better.
I agree with cutting Mishra's Bauble. We need to be very efficient to be succesful. Cantrips are a necessary part of the deck because they trigger prowess and help us hit our land drops with a low land count, however, we don't want to many blank draws or too much "air". I think you made the right choice cutting them.
On the Chandra topic, I am a known fan of Chandra, Pyromaster. She is my favorite planeswalker of all time (if Ral Zarek was better he would top the list). What I love most about her is that her +1 fits seemlessly into our main deck game plan if your ahead. She does direct damage and removes a blocker. In contrast, her 0 ability helps us get back into a game if we are behind or to get ahead if we are at parity. To top it off, her ultimate works great in a deck with a lot burn. My basic opinion is that in the more aggressive versions Chandra, Pyromaster is better and in the more tempo/midrange versions {c]Chandra, Torch of Defiance[/c] is likely better.
Hi everyone. I asked my viewers which deck they'd like to see next (http://www.strawpoll.me/14242602), and I am hoping to get some feedback from this thread on which Jeskai Delver build to focus on. The main benefit I see to running a delver list over the popular Tempo lists, is tjat you have an earlier clock, and in theory the matchups like RG Valakut should be better.[/url]
Hi Nathan,
awesome to see you here in our forum. Of course I voted for Jeskai Delver. I am watching your videos on a weekly basis but when I saw your post I checked FB where I asked you for advice when I started playing MtG again back in summer 2015 with a UW Delver list
About 2,5 years have past since then and for 2 years I've been playing UWR Delver and nothing else, and I am still loving it.
There are several "valid" approaches for playing Jeskai I think and I would mainly divide them in three categories: lists with 24 lands, lists with 20-21 land, and lists with 18-19 lands. The Jeskai Geist list you played so long on your channel fits the first category. Other land-heavy lists would be Kiki Control, Nahiri Control and pure Jeskai Control.
The main lists you'll find here are either aggressive lists like CurdBros' or MrTzoulis' lists with 18-19 lands or slower lists like mine or from GofyTomcat1. The aggressive lists usually run 7-8 CMC1 threats (4 Delvers + 3-4 Swiftspears) and 8-10 cantrips, the slower lists with 21 lands only run 4 Delvers, no Swiftspears and 4-8 cantrips. The aggressive type might have a better matchup against RG Valakut but of course I'd love to see you play a list like mine with 21 lands.
The list works very well and I'd love to see you give it a shot, but no matter which Jeskai Delver list you choose to play: please play a list without Spell Queller. There are too many videos online already with those lists... Good luck and have fun!
StevomatUWR- Once again you have said what I was trying to say only in a much more concise and informative fashion. I tend to get a little verbose so I'm glad you are around to help me out. I couldn't agree more. I think the jeskai delver/prowess deck has really solidified into to major "styles" both with their own inherent strengths and weaknesses. As always, I love your list. You have been on the Delver deck longer than most so thanks for staying strong. It was tough during the pod and jund days, but we promised through richer or poorer :).
StevomatUWR- Once again you have said what I was trying to say only in a much more concise and informative fashion. I tend to get a little verbose so I'm glad you are around to help me out. I couldn't agree more. I think the jeskai delver/prowess deck has really solidified into to major "styles" both with their own inherent strengths and weaknesses. As always, I love your list. You have been on the Delver deck longer than most so thanks for staying strong. It was tough during the pod and jund days, but we promised through richer or poorer :).
Hi, CurdBros!
Thanks for your feedback, as always.
Don't worry that your posts are too verbose because I always enjoy them. I rather fear that my posts are often ineloquent. Hahaha.
My deck changed a little bit during the last weeks. Remand often felt underwhelming in my deck because I wanted to stop threats for good rather then giving them back to my opponents so I switched to 2 good old Mana Leaks instead. I also cut the one Logic Knot again because I didn't like the UU cost. I kept 1 Remand though because it's so good with Snapcaster and because it's my only cantrip next to Serum Visions.
I settled with a balance of 9 burn spells and 5 counter spells (putting the versatility of my other spells aside) and I think the deck is kind of a jack-of-all-trades now but a master of none...which might not sound awesome but it is.
The jack-of-all-trades has a good matchup against almost any other deck and considering how manifold the Modern meta is right now, I'd be very confident to take this deck to a big tournament.
A few weeks ago my deck had even more burn (when I went to the tournament in Hamburg it had a second Boros Charm and 1 Electrolyze) but I often wished I had a counter in hand. I am still not sure though which solution is better. A build with 12 burn spells in total (4 Bolt, 3 Helix, 3 Boros, 1 Jeskai Charm, 1 Electrolyze) can finish the opponent very quickly but occasionally looses to even faster unfair decks/combo without enough disruption...
Edit: Just watched the first video against Eldrazi Tron... Well, I am glad that GreatNate picked your deck and that I could finally see it in action, but it pains me to see how bad he sideboarded. Not bringing in the 2 Deflecting Palms and Shattering Spree was a huge mistake. They are perfect answers to everything the opponent played: Smasher, Witchbane Orb, and Batterskull -_-
Hi guys
I've been following this thread for a bunch of weeks now, but now I finally made it - I created an account so I can participate in the discussion
First, I'd like to thank you all for the encouraging and inspiring thoughts you shared here. I'm playing Jeskai tempo/delver/whatever for quite awhile now, but your posts really helped me in a lot of ways. There are some cards I didn't consider as options before e.g. Hazoret the Fervent. In other cases, it was super helpful to see that cards I thought were great for the deck were actually found in similar lists. The best example for this is the recent addition of Chart a Course. Last but not least, hearing of all your experiences made me believe in the viability of my deck, which in turn encouraged me to go to my first modern fnm.
This List differs from the one I played at the fnm 2 weeks ago in a few aspects:
1. I added a 4th Snapcaster Mage and a copy of Hazoret the Fervent, but removed a Delver of Secrets. I'm still testing which of the 1 cmc creatures (Delver or Swiftspear) I want to keep as a four of. The current Spilt is the result of my love for Monastery Swiftspear and the fact that she rarely does nothing before being removed.
2. I removed Spell Snare for a second copy of Spell Pierce
3. I used to play two copies of Mishra's Bauble. I really liked it and would love to fit it in again because of the sweet interaction with Monastery Swiftspear and Delver of Secrets in early game. However, the card just feels kind of awkward in top deck mode and often feels underwhelming with neither Delver, Swiftspear or at least a fetch land in play...
4. I played Chandra, Pyromaster in the Sideboard instead of Chandra, Torch of Defiance. The latter seems more powerful to me, but I'm not quite sure if the former wouldn't suit the deck better because of its ability to remove a blocker while dealing 1 damage with her +1. What do you Think?
Please let me know what you think of my deck list. I would be especially thankful for comments on the sideboard
@GreatNate: Cool to see you here. Recently I have found myself watching your youtube videos quite often. I really liked your jeskai Geist lists.
Welcome to the jeskai delver/prowess topic! It's always great to see new posters becoming active participants. The collective knowledge of all of you guys/gals has really helped me personally and hopefully others.
I like your list a lot. It falls into the Aggro end of the spectrum and looks a lot like Mr. T's list. As you likely already know, I would suggest keeping the delvers and swiftspears for an aggressive start. However, like StevomatUWR said above, there is definitely a great way to play the deck without an abundance of one drop threats. As for the list, the only suggestion I would make is to get the fourth Lightning Bolt into the list. Some people would say it's crazy to only run 3, but I have done so in the past, so it's not crazy. With that said, there is no other card in modern that is so efficient at killing the opponent and their stuff :). Other than that I think it looks great. I like that Cligue and chandra along with the negate, dispel, give you a chance to side into a more midrange deck when necessary.
Now for your questions.
I personally prefer spell pierce over spell snare. Both are great, but I have found that in the aggressive decks particularly that spell pierce has performed better.
I agree with cutting Mishra's Bauble. We need to be very efficient to be succesful. Cantrips are a necessary part of the deck because they trigger prowess and help us hit our land drops with a low land count, however, we don't want to many blank draws or too much "air". I think you made the right choice cutting them.
On the Chandra topic, I am a known fan of Chandra, Pyromaster. She is my favorite planeswalker of all time (if Ral Zarek was better he would top the list). What I love most about her is that her +1 fits seemlessly into our main deck game plan if your ahead. She does direct damage and removes a blocker. In contrast, her 0 ability helps us get back into a game if we are behind or to get ahead if we are at parity. To top it off, her ultimate works great in a deck with a lot burn. My basic opinion is that in the more aggressive versions Chandra, Pyromaster is better and in the more tempo/midrange versions {c]Chandra, Torch of Defiance[/c] is likely better.
Thanks for the feedback! You're right, my deck plays quite aggressive most of the time. But I love how our decks can adapt to different situations. Sometimes I play it more tempo oriented, sometimes its more controlling, and yet other times it feels like a burn build.
Decreasing the number of one drop threats by one and simultaneously increasing the number of creatures by one is the result of my experience at the FNM. However, I feel like I'm biased because of my first match there. It was against Jund, which would have been hard enough, but in addition I was really unlucky with my opening hands...
I've been testing my deck online for about a week now, and I must say that I feel more confident about Delver of Secrets again. That said, I will probably go back to four Delvers and Swiftspears respectively.
I'm playing four copies of Lightning Bolt. I guess its pretty much a auto-include in this kind of deck. I simpy haven't been careful enough writing down my list.
I guess we have an almost identical opinion on Spell Snare. Although it can be very powerful, I think that Spell Pierc suits my list much better. Most spells I might want to counter are noncreature spells anyway since I usually have enough removal. However, I must admit, that the option of countering a Snapcaster Mage for one mana is really sweet.
Your short analysis on both Chandras is very helpful. I knew that her 0 and +1 abilties wer both good, but I haven't thought of Chandra, Pyromaster as more versatile in this kind of deck before. I'm going to test both a bit more thoroughly in the future.
I'm going to play my deck online for a bit longer, and then participate at the modern FNM once again sometime soon. Hopefully, I'll have learnt playing against some more decks by then.
Hi Guys! I have some great news. GreatNate one of the god fathers of Jeskai Geist is playing Jeskai Delver on his youtube channel this week. Here is the link to his first game:
Just to give him a true test, MTGO started with one of our tougher matchups- Eldrazi Tron. A few play notes I would like to add are that in game two he should have snap/helixed the opponent and cast opt into the chalice and attacked. That's a very small thing and I think this is a really tough line for a jeskai geist/midrange player to see because it's blasphemy to cast snapcaster in your mainphase :). Also I would have suggested siding in Deflecting Palm and Shattering Spree in this matchup for big fattys and chalice. Also, you got a little unlucky in the last game. I have actually never seen a Whitchbane Orb in play. As we always say this is a really tough deck to learn to play, but Great Nate has more experience than all of us (most likely) with Jeskai Geist style decks so he will be just fine. I can confidently say Nate is a better player than myself with experience with a deck.
I want to say thank you to Great Nate for the shoutout on the stream and for giving our deck a try. Best of luck the rest of the week!
Good to hear from you Mazeron. You were one of the people Nate was talking about when he talked about all of the great people on this forum that have truly helped build the deck.
I have to admit I am a bit nervous to watch the games on Nate's channel because my personal deck is "tweaked" to my playstyle and is really hard to learn to play well. However, Nate is a great player so I assume he will be able to pilot it just as well, if not better, than myself. I am keeping my fingers crossed for decent matchups and decent variance so we can get at least a couple of wins :). With Nate showing the deck to so many and Ross Merriam recently playing jeskai delver on SCG a couple of times, I really think the deck is picking up steam. Hopefully your group gets a bit more time. A lot of time I resort to playing against my brother with a bunch of modern decks if our playgroup can't get together. Life gets in the way of magic sometimes :). I have a 3 year old so I have less time to play than I would like, but I wouldn't change a thing. It's great to hear from you and I hope you get to play the deck soon.
I must say I think Nate played very well and found the correct lines. The one mana "mishap" didn't cost him anything and other than that he played WAY better than I would think an average person picking up the deck would play. Thanks again to Nate for playing the deck.
Hi,
I am recovering from a surgery atm so I am at home and I found the time to play 11 games with my newest build (the list I just posted with Search, Stronghold, 2 Mana Leaks) since Oct 29th on MTGO. It went pretty well
2-1 vs Boros Burn
2-0 vs Lantern Control
2-1 vs Vampire Aggro
2-1 vs UB Control (Budget)
1-2 vs GR TitanShift with Breach
2-1 vs UR Aggro with Fiend, Thing, Enigma Drake
2-1 vs Naya Burn
2-0 vs a strange Sultai Ramp/Control Brew including Valakut
2-1 vs Affinity
2-0 vs Mono Black Devotion
2-0 vs Grixis Aggro Brew with hand disruption, Brutality, Swiftspear, Enigma Drake and Chart a Course
Not all of these are Tier decks but the games were all fun!
During these eleven games I'd say that these have been my Top6 MVP cards: Snapcaster Mage, Deflecting Palm, Lightning Helix, Mana Leak, Slayers' Stronghold and Search for Azcanta! The last two surprised me because they are much better than I had expected.
Well, Delver, Geist, Path of course also did a lot of work... I guess there is not a single card in my deck that I don't love
Btw, until now I uploaded videos with gameplay twice here in this forum and I was wondering if these were interesting? If many of you have watched them and found them helpful somehow (without comment and all) I can upload some interesting games from the ones I listed up above.
Next I will finally try to compete in a competitive league.
Hi,
I am recovering from a surgery atm so I am at home and I found the time to play 11 games with my newest build (the list I just posted with Search, Stronghold, 2 Mana Leaks) since Oct 29th on MTGO. It went pretty well
2-1 vs Boros Burn
2-0 vs Lantern Control
2-1 vs Vampire Aggro
2-1 vs UB Control (Budget)
1-2 vs GR TitanShift with Breach
2-1 vs UR Aggro with Fiend, Thing, Enigma Drake
2-1 vs Naya Burn
2-0 vs a strange Sultai Ramp/Control Brew including Valakut
2-1 vs Affinity
2-0 vs Mono Black Devotion
2-0 vs Grixis Aggro Brew with hand disruption, Brutality, Swiftspear, Enigma Drake and Chart a Course
Not all of these are Tier decks but the games were all fun!
During these eleven games I'd say that these have been my Top6 MVP cards: Snapcaster Mage, Deflecting Palm, Lightning Helix, Mana Leak, Slayers' Stronghold and Search for Azcanta! The last two surprised me because they are much better than I had expected.
Well, Delver, Geist, Path of course also did a lot of work... I guess there is not a single card in my deck that I don't love
Btw, until now I uploaded videos with gameplay twice here in this forum and I was wondering if these were interesting? If many of you have watched them and found them helpful somehow (without comment and all) I can upload some interesting games from the ones I listed up above.
Next I will finally try to compete in a competitive league.
Hi Stevomat. I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say, we hope you get well soon and you have a smooth recovery. That's one nice thing about having magic as a hobby because it doesn't ask too much of us physically :).
Congrats on the great record! Playing magic is always fun, but I will admit I enjoy it a little bit more when I'm winning.
I would LOVE to see videos. I must have missed the prior videos, but would love to see them again if you can upload them. How do you upload them? Please do provide a video so I can see how to watch them. I assume others would love to see the videos as well.
He makes some great suggestions for the deck in the beginning of the video. I really like his {c]grim lavamancer[/c] suggestion. I may have to find a way to get him into the sideboard at minium. He also mentions Boomerang. That is a super sweet card that would be so awesome in a aggressive/tempo style build. Bouncing their first land on the play would almost be game over already. With that said, the deck doesn't have many problems winning on the play, the weakness of the deck is on the draw (like most decks in modern). I have never tried Boomerang, but I definitely will test it now.
He also tweaks the deck a bet to match his personal preferences and what he thinks is best. I really love to see this because I have always said that one of the great things about this deck is that you can put your own signature on the deck. Let us know what you think of his changes and recommendations. I am always open to constructive criticism, especially from all of you and Nate.
PS- There is a bonus matchup outside of the league against a RG ramp brew. I won't spoil if he wins or loses, but I will say variance was definitely on his opponents side and that this reaffirms my opinion that Blood Moon should be banned.
I just finished watching the latest video and there are some things I wanted to point out.
First off all his play is getting better and better, which means he is getting comfortable with the deck,which is great.
The next thing are his suggestions and changes he made when playing the non-league game. I was never a fan of swiftspear, I don't know why but I just don't like the card, but I love lavamancer and his idea and comment on grim lavamancer and young PZ got me thinking if he is on to something here. Playing 2 lavamncers main and in my case 2 pyros doesn't actually sound that bad and maybe I can find a way to get the third pyro into the sideboard.
Spell pierce is just a very solid card and 2 copies off it seem very reasonable, but I still don't know if spell snare is a card I want to play. Just as you always say Curdbros, it either is bonkers good, or doesn't do anything. Although it should have gotten better over the last couple of weeks/months with storm just being omnipresent.
One last thing I wanted to ask is, why do you think blood moon has to be banned? The card is really powerful I completely agree with that, but it is also kind off the police right now. Punishing decks for having extremely greedy mana bases, looking at Eldrazi tron/tron in general, grixis shadow, the new humans deck. Blood moon preys upon such decks but what does your moon do versus merfolk, or elves, two color control decks that can just fetch basics.
Blood moon is a very polarizing card but it either gets you good or you don't really care at all.
That's why I do not believe it is banworthy.
And there was a play Nate could have made to play around moon. (I think he remanded it pretty early in the game so he knew about it.)
He could have played EE on 3 instead of playing the geist. He would have hadd a slower clock delaying himself by at least 1 turn but he would have been able to put up a fight.
I agree that he is getting better with the deck very quickly. I let him know that the line of vapor snagging Geist and snap bolting after supreme verdict showed that he is really seeing the lines of the deck very well.
Switfspear is a polarizing card. You either love it or hate it. One downside to the card is that you really have to have an aggressive slant to the deck to utilize swiftspear. I personally couldn’t play the deck without her, but she fits my style. I don’t think having lavamancer/young pyromancer is “worse” by any stretch, just a different strategy.
I probably stated my hatred for blood moon incorrectly. I don’t think it should be banned, I just don’t like what the card does to games of magic. You are correct that we have lots of ways around it. I typically fetch basic island against them but the Ponza decks normally kill that too. Blood moon has not shown near enough damage to modern to discuss its banning seriously. I think the only reason it would ever be banned is if they took away 9th and 10th edition from modern, but I don’t see that happening unless they reprint tron lands.
if blood moon is to be banned, Tron lands should get hit too for balance sake.
tbh, i think at a certain point, they will move the "time-line" for Modern forwards to exclude all sets before 10th Edition... however that would mean Blood Moon is still legal (its in Modern Masters) but they could ban it, which is in an extent, bad form.
why i say this is because they did the same thing for Extended neos ago (then called type 1.5).
I hated Blood Moon when I started playing, but then I realized the value that it provides in modern by keeping mana bases honest and hosing land based strategies, which have few or no ways to be interacted with. Start playing it CurdBros, you'll change your mind, trust me (ps you need a 2nd island in your mana base)
If anything choke and boil are what's wrong with land hosers. Specifically hating one type of lands is stupid, Blood Moon is symmetrical and I've only had problems when I was behind. Also, instead of bans we should be discussing unbans or printing new cards that help solve problems. Banning almost certainly lead to more bans.
On GreatNate's videos, I think he could've won the Penza (and the first etron match) if he were more familiar with the deck and it's play style. One thing that "bothered" me, if you will, is tha for a guy that has advocated so much for jeskai geist he doesn't trust Deflecting Palm at all... I mean it flips the etron matchup easily, wrecks infect and is as good as a removal against DS. It will also deal with a plated etched champion and in general big fatties. [A friend hates the card, and me, because he's lost to it both in modern and commander several times].
Overall, after getting a closer look at CurdBros' decks (visual spoiler does that) and how it plays I it reaffirmed my position that the deck needs a real finisher, which the Reveler isn't, and that chart a course can (or should) be our go to CA card.
I hated Blood Moon when I started playing, but then I realized the value that it provides in modern by keeping mana bases honest and hosing land based strategies, which have few or no ways to be interacted with. Start playing it CurdBros, you'll change your mind, trust me (ps you need a 2nd island in your mana base)
If anything choke and boil are what's wrong with land hosers. Specifically hating one type of lands is stupid, Blood Moon is symmetrical and I've only had problems when I was behind. Also, instead of bans we should be discussing unbans or printing new cards that help solve problems. Banning almost certainly lead to more bans.
On GreatNate's videos, I think he could've won the Penza (and the first etron match) if he were more familiar with the deck and it's play style. One thing that "bothered" me, if you will, is tha for a guy that has advocated so much for jeskai geist he doesn't trust Deflecting Palm at all... I mean it flips the etron matchup easily, wrecks infect and is as good as a removal against DS. It will also deal with a plated etched champion and in general big fatties. [A friend hates the card, and me, because he's lost to it both in modern and commander several times].
Overall, after getting a closer look at CurdBros' decks (visual spoiler does that) and how it plays I it reaffirmed my position that the deck needs a real finisher, which the Reveler isn't, and that chart a course can (or should) be our go to CA card.
I typically agree with your views Mr. Tzoulis, but this is one of those times I have to disagree on several things. I dislike strongly when individuals say we shouldn’t talk about bans and rather talk about unbans. There is no value lost in discussing both bans and unbans. Again, I don't think blood moon can seriously be considered for a banning by any stretch, I just personally don't like the card. With that said, I shouldn’t bring those topics up because they derail the thread. I apologize for doing that. I do have to say that I cringe every time I see the card Choke and Boil because they have wrecked me in the past. I will agree that I might need another island rather than a second seachrome coast. Nate would have won the Ponza match if the second coast was an island. I will have try that. I also think you are correct that I should try playing blood moon. I have thought about it in the past and just couldn't bring myself to do it although I probably would have benefited.
On Bedlam Reveler you will be surprised when I say I couldn’t disagree more. My only original goal with the deck was to try to fix the long standing weaknesses of the classic jeskai delver deck without damaging too greatly the aggro-control role of the deck. The first thing I decided was we needed a way to get through damage against lots of creatures, so I added distortion strike and echoing truth. Strike is a card that does hurt the overall aggro-control plan, but is a necessary evil for me. Echoing truth fits perfectly And has the added benefit of bouncing problem cards (like blood moon).
This leads us to Reveler. The largest single problem I personally hated when playing boremandos or the old jeskai delver list was that the deco struggled a ton when I wasn’t ahead. This is still a “weakness” or a general conclusion of taking a more aggressive stance, but I wanted to see if there were any cards that could mitigate this. I turn planeswalkers, thundermaw hellkite, ancestral vision, etc, but none really fit in the play style or had too high of a casting cost. Actually, chandra, pyromaster was the best fit for awhile but I didn’t love the 4 CMC. Then reveler was spoiled and it fit perfectly. It refuels the hand, is plenty big to finish off a game in an aggressive deck, it can be played at the top end of an aggressive curve quickly and can be utilized in a midrange matchup, it works extremely well with vapor snag and echoing truth, and dodges inquisition and fatal push. Obviously, I’m biased as I have advocated for the card for awhile, but I feel it’s a bit disengenious to say reveler isn’t a finisher. I am curious what in the videos made you dislike reveler? I am not trying to be dismissive, I truly want to know because I value your opinion very highly.
Like I always say, different strokes for different folks. I’m truly happy you guys/gals have fostered an environment where you and I can share disagreements without putting down the person with whom you disagree. I think that’s the best way to becoming a better player and it’s just the right thing to do. I also agree that he could and probably would have won both games he lost if he had been a little more familiar with the deck. I also agree with your assessment of deflecting palm. Everyone here knows I have an unhealthy love for that card. It warms my heart to hear that you are crushing your friends with it. Every time a game dies to deflecting palm and angel gets it's wings
I honestly thought Nate would try the Young Pyro version of the deck because mine is a bit less mainstream than most, but I’m glad he didn’t because it helps me learn about card choices outside of my own play. That’s a rather selfish view, but I like to be honest. I can’t wait to see his last two rounds (if he streams them). Ok I think this wall of text is sufficiently large now so I will stop building 😃.
PS- If you have time, can you post your current list. I would love to see it.
On a separate note, I have noticed lately the increase in the power level of Young Pyromancer with her new tools- Opt and Chart a Course. While she doesn't fit my personal list because I run swiftspear currently, I feel like all of you running Young Pyromancer with Chart a Course might be onto something really great.
Chart has been a little love/hate for me personally. I have found that I often want to hold up removal or counter magic rather than casting chart. I'm still sticking with one because so many of you have had such good results with it like Mr. Tzoulis. I think it definitely fits best into the all in prowess lists that try to dump their hands and fits even better into the more midrange style builds that run 19-21 lands. While I can't help too much with the building of a Young P/Chart deck I do love to see it performing so well.
I totally hear you and Mr. T on Blood Moon. You mentioned another card I shouldn't get started on in Simian Spirit Guide, but I digress. I think that the more diversity in decks in modern the better. Therefore, if someone wants to turn two Blood Moon and it isn't too meta warping, I think it should exist. That doesn't mean I won't hate playing against it, but I don't think we should take anyone's joy away unless it's truly shown to be too powerful. Which Blood Moon has not.
Very true on reveler. He doesn't play well with counter magic. I have had several times where I discard a dead spell pierce in the late game when I cast him. I guess the card was dead anyways, but it would be nice to be able to cast it to lower his casting cost.
I have recently been trying a split of 3/3 on Serum Visions and Opt. I don't think the 2/4 split was bad per say , it was mainly due to the fact that storm had become so prevalent that I wanted to be able to hold up Spell Pierce as often as possible. I have heard several people comment that I should likely switch the ratio to 4 serum visions and 2 opt so I decided to meet in the middle and go 3 and 3. I haven't had seen any difference in delver flips that I have noted, but I will start looking for the instances where opt could have been serum visions.
A couple of cards I have been interested in lately are Twisted Image and Counterflux in the sideboard. Is anyone running either?
notables: 4 opt, 2 chart a course and 1 search for azcanta
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
Thanks for sharing this Need_More_DPS. I also think the three Monastery Mentor are note worthy as well. It looks like he is coming to similar conclusions as many of us on here. Chart a Course has legs in the main deck and Search for Azcanta is very good. Search doesn't quite fit into my deck, but chart does. I am now in "tinkering" stage so this information is great to see.
good write up Curdbros!
my experience with Storm is limited. the version i played against is the pre G.Probe ban version that already had Baral in it. that version was somewhat easier to beat because the Storm player would take risks like paying life for G.Probe and that put them in Bolt range. the new version doesn't have that luxury for us anymore.
Baral and Goblin Electromancer are one of their win conditions. If you keep them off the board you can win the game easily. that means you have to cantrip into removal and dodge their counter magic at crucial moments. they WILL protect their Baral / Electromancer with counter magic like Remand and Dispel so watch out for untapped mana but usually they only have Remand pre sideboard.
In G2, if they discard Grapeshot (because they have another in hand), Surgical Extraction it! Keep counter magic up for Empty The Warrens, you might need 2 to beat Empty the Warrens because they WILL have counter magic defence when the combo goes off.
Things to look out for:
1. If they discard Past in Flames or Grapeshot, those are big Surgical Extraction targets.
2. In the early game, keep them off Baral or Goblin Electromancer with soft removal.
3. G1, they have Remand. G2, they will have Dispel/Spell Pierce/Spell Snare
4. You have 2 turns to play creatures aggressively. maybe 3 because they do not want to trade away their own creatures (unless they have another in hand).
Possible Sideboard Tech against Graveyard Stratgies:
1. Rest in Peace: But it hits our Snapcaster Mage stratgy also.
2. Leyline of the Void: Its black. And you need to play a full playset and Mulligan aggressively in G2 and G3...
3. Arcane Laboratory: Possibly the best option atm. Hits us too but it hits them way harder as we are able to play in both player's turns.
4. Rule of Law: Same as Acane Laboratory
5. Spirit of the Labyrinth: Very decent
6. Worship: A great option actually
Our deck is tradtionally soft against Combo but we can tilt the odds slightly in our favor if we practice enough with it.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
Good luck with your Midterms!
Vapor Snag is a really good card. I have won many games that I otherwise might have loss with it. Its definately one of my pet cards...
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
What do you think?
youtube.com/c/GreatNate
I'm sure I can speak for most of the regular posters on this topic that we are huge fans of your Youtube content. You helped put and keep Jeskai Geist on the map. It's great to see you on here. I admit I did vote for Jeskai Delver on your strawpole, but I also love jeskai aggro. I will put together a major breakdown of most of the most important points and post it shortly, but I wanted to say hi first and welcome to the jeskai prowess/delver topic!
EDIT- added later
The starting point to a jeskai delver deck is really the creature base. The creatures you prefer or would like to play will really start to sculpt the remainder of your deck. Most of the core spells like Path to Exile, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Helix, Remand, etc are in all of the decks. However, the creature base changes. I like to say this is the best Remand deck in modern. I will start with a quick overview of the creatures.
Almost all jeskai delver decks start with:
4 [c]Delver of Secrets
3-4 Snapcaster Mage
The more aggressive versions fill out their creature base with
Monastery Swiftspear
Goblin Guide
Mantis Rider
Hazoret the Fervent
Sometimes Geist of Saint Traft
The more aggro control oriented lists go with
Spell Queller
Geist of Saint Traft
Bedlam Reveler
And finally the more pure tempo or midrange builds utilize
Young Pyromancer
Vendilion Clique
Spell Queller
Sometimes Geist of Saint Traft
Once you know what style of deck you would prefer to play in game 1 and the creature base that coincides with that plan we can build spells with those in mind.
Thanks for dropping by Nate!
I voted for Jeskai Delver. =P
Maybe you can build one that has Young Pyromancer and Opt in it. I play Smuggler's Copter in mine but I can understand if its not your thing because of Kolaghan's Command.
Or you can try Takase Ryousuke's version (refer to attached picture)
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
I've been following this thread for a bunch of weeks now, but now I finally made it - I created an account so I can participate in the discussion
First, I'd like to thank you all for the encouraging and inspiring thoughts you shared here. I'm playing Jeskai tempo/delver/whatever for quite awhile now, but your posts really helped me in a lot of ways. There are some cards I didn't consider as options before e.g. Hazoret the Fervent. In other cases, it was super helpful to see that cards I thought were great for the deck were actually found in similar lists. The best example for this is the recent addition of Chart a Course. Last but not least, hearing of all your experiences made me believe in the viability of my deck, which in turn encouraged me to go to my first modern fnm.
Here's my current list:
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
1 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Spirebluff Canal
1 Seachrome Coast
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Faerie Conclave
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Eiganjo Castle
Creatures (15)
3 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
1 Electrolyze
3 Path to Exile
2 Vapor Snag
2 Boros Charm
2 Emerge Unscathed
2 Remand
2 Spell Pierce
3 Opt
Sorceries (4)
3 Serum Visions
1 Chart a Course
1 Dispel
1 Negate
2 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Path to Exile
1 Celestial Purge
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Echoing Truth
2 Wear // Tear
1 Spreading Seas
2 Deflecting Palm
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
This List differs from the one I played at the fnm 2 weeks ago in a few aspects:
1. I added a 4th Snapcaster Mage and a copy of Hazoret the Fervent, but removed a Delver of Secrets. I'm still testing which of the 1 cmc creatures (Delver or Swiftspear) I want to keep as a four of. The current Spilt is the result of my love for Monastery Swiftspear and the fact that she rarely does nothing before being removed.
2. I removed Spell Snare for a second copy of Spell Pierce
3. I used to play two copies of Mishra's Bauble. I really liked it and would love to fit it in again because of the sweet interaction with Monastery Swiftspear and Delver of Secrets in early game. However, the card just feels kind of awkward in top deck mode and often feels underwhelming with neither Delver, Swiftspear or at least a fetch land in play...
4. I played Chandra, Pyromaster in the Sideboard instead of Chandra, Torch of Defiance. The latter seems more powerful to me, but I'm not quite sure if the former wouldn't suit the deck better because of its ability to remove a blocker while dealing 1 damage with her +1. What do you Think?
Please let me know what you think of my deck list. I would be especially thankful for comments on the sideboard
@GreatNate: Cool to see you here. Recently I have found myself watching your youtube videos quite often. I really liked your jeskai Geist lists.
Hi Nathan,
awesome to see you here in our forum. Of course I voted for Jeskai Delver. I am watching your videos on a weekly basis but when I saw your post I checked FB where I asked you for advice when I started playing MtG again back in summer 2015 with a UW Delver list
About 2,5 years have past since then and for 2 years I've been playing UWR Delver and nothing else, and I am still loving it.
There are several "valid" approaches for playing Jeskai I think and I would mainly divide them in three categories: lists with 24 lands, lists with 20-21 land, and lists with 18-19 lands. The Jeskai Geist list you played so long on your channel fits the first category. Other land-heavy lists would be Kiki Control, Nahiri Control and pure Jeskai Control.
The main lists you'll find here are either aggressive lists like CurdBros' or MrTzoulis' lists with 18-19 lands or slower lists like mine or from GofyTomcat1. The aggressive lists usually run 7-8 CMC1 threats (4 Delvers + 3-4 Swiftspears) and 8-10 cantrips, the slower lists with 21 lands only run 4 Delvers, no Swiftspears and 4-8 cantrips. The aggressive type might have a better matchup against RG Valakut but of course I'd love to see you play a list like mine with 21 lands.
I'll post my actual list here for reference.
2 Arid Mesa
3 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Mountain
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Slayers' Stronghold
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Spirebluff Canal
1 Inspiring Vantage
1 Seachrome Coast
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Glacial Fortress
4 Path to Exile
4 Serum Visions
2 Spell Pierce
2 Mana Leak
1 Remand
1 Vapor Snag
1 Emerge Unscathed
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
1 Boros Charm
1 Jeskai Charm
Enchantment (1)
1 Search for Azcanta
Creatures (14)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Dispel
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Negate
1 Celestial Purge
2 Stony Silence
2 Deflecting Palm
1 Wear/Tear
1 Worship
1 Supreme Verdict
The list works very well and I'd love to see you give it a shot, but no matter which Jeskai Delver list you choose to play: please play a list without Spell Queller. There are too many videos online already with those lists... Good luck and have fun!
Welcome to the jeskai delver/prowess topic! It's always great to see new posters becoming active participants. The collective knowledge of all of you guys/gals has really helped me personally and hopefully others.
I like your list a lot. It falls into the Aggro end of the spectrum and looks a lot like Mr. T's list. As you likely already know, I would suggest keeping the delvers and swiftspears for an aggressive start. However, like StevomatUWR said above, there is definitely a great way to play the deck without an abundance of one drop threats. As for the list, the only suggestion I would make is to get the fourth Lightning Bolt into the list. Some people would say it's crazy to only run 3, but I have done so in the past, so it's not crazy. With that said, there is no other card in modern that is so efficient at killing the opponent and their stuff :). Other than that I think it looks great. I like that Cligue and chandra along with the negate, dispel, give you a chance to side into a more midrange deck when necessary.
Now for your questions.
I personally prefer spell pierce over spell snare. Both are great, but I have found that in the aggressive decks particularly that spell pierce has performed better.
I agree with cutting Mishra's Bauble. We need to be very efficient to be succesful. Cantrips are a necessary part of the deck because they trigger prowess and help us hit our land drops with a low land count, however, we don't want to many blank draws or too much "air". I think you made the right choice cutting them.
On the Chandra topic, I am a known fan of Chandra, Pyromaster. She is my favorite planeswalker of all time (if Ral Zarek was better he would top the list). What I love most about her is that her +1 fits seemlessly into our main deck game plan if your ahead. She does direct damage and removes a blocker. In contrast, her 0 ability helps us get back into a game if we are behind or to get ahead if we are at parity. To top it off, her ultimate works great in a deck with a lot burn. My basic opinion is that in the more aggressive versions Chandra, Pyromaster is better and in the more tempo/midrange versions {c]Chandra, Torch of Defiance[/c] is likely better.
StevomatUWR- Once again you have said what I was trying to say only in a much more concise and informative fashion. I tend to get a little verbose so I'm glad you are around to help me out. I couldn't agree more. I think the jeskai delver/prowess deck has really solidified into to major "styles" both with their own inherent strengths and weaknesses. As always, I love your list. You have been on the Delver deck longer than most so thanks for staying strong. It was tough during the pod and jund days, but we promised through richer or poorer :).
Hi, CurdBros!
Thanks for your feedback, as always.
Don't worry that your posts are too verbose because I always enjoy them. I rather fear that my posts are often ineloquent. Hahaha.
My deck changed a little bit during the last weeks. Remand often felt underwhelming in my deck because I wanted to stop threats for good rather then giving them back to my opponents so I switched to 2 good old Mana Leaks instead. I also cut the one Logic Knot again because I didn't like the UU cost. I kept 1 Remand though because it's so good with Snapcaster and because it's my only cantrip next to Serum Visions.
I settled with a balance of 9 burn spells and 5 counter spells (putting the versatility of my other spells aside) and I think the deck is kind of a jack-of-all-trades now but a master of none...which might not sound awesome but it is.
The jack-of-all-trades has a good matchup against almost any other deck and considering how manifold the Modern meta is right now, I'd be very confident to take this deck to a big tournament.
A few weeks ago my deck had even more burn (when I went to the tournament in Hamburg it had a second Boros Charm and 1 Electrolyze) but I often wished I had a counter in hand. I am still not sure though which solution is better. A build with 12 burn spells in total (4 Bolt, 3 Helix, 3 Boros, 1 Jeskai Charm, 1 Electrolyze) can finish the opponent very quickly but occasionally looses to even faster unfair decks/combo without enough disruption...
Edit: Just watched the first video against Eldrazi Tron... Well, I am glad that GreatNate picked your deck and that I could finally see it in action, but it pains me to see how bad he sideboarded. Not bringing in the 2 Deflecting Palms and Shattering Spree was a huge mistake. They are perfect answers to everything the opponent played: Smasher, Witchbane Orb, and Batterskull -_-
Thanks for the feedback! You're right, my deck plays quite aggressive most of the time. But I love how our decks can adapt to different situations. Sometimes I play it more tempo oriented, sometimes its more controlling, and yet other times it feels like a burn build.
Decreasing the number of one drop threats by one and simultaneously increasing the number of creatures by one is the result of my experience at the FNM. However, I feel like I'm biased because of my first match there. It was against Jund, which would have been hard enough, but in addition I was really unlucky with my opening hands...
I've been testing my deck online for about a week now, and I must say that I feel more confident about Delver of Secrets again. That said, I will probably go back to four Delvers and Swiftspears respectively.
I'm playing four copies of Lightning Bolt. I guess its pretty much a auto-include in this kind of deck. I simpy haven't been careful enough writing down my list.
I guess we have an almost identical opinion on Spell Snare. Although it can be very powerful, I think that Spell Pierc suits my list much better. Most spells I might want to counter are noncreature spells anyway since I usually have enough removal. However, I must admit, that the option of countering a Snapcaster Mage for one mana is really sweet.
Your short analysis on both Chandras is very helpful. I knew that her 0 and +1 abilties wer both good, but I haven't thought of Chandra, Pyromaster as more versatile in this kind of deck before. I'm going to test both a bit more thoroughly in the future.
I'm going to play my deck online for a bit longer, and then participate at the modern FNM once again sometime soon. Hopefully, I'll have learnt playing against some more decks by then.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGI-CMhcHvA
Just to give him a true test, MTGO started with one of our tougher matchups- Eldrazi Tron. A few play notes I would like to add are that in game two he should have snap/helixed the opponent and cast opt into the chalice and attacked. That's a very small thing and I think this is a really tough line for a jeskai geist/midrange player to see because it's blasphemy to cast snapcaster in your mainphase :). Also I would have suggested siding in Deflecting Palm and Shattering Spree in this matchup for big fattys and chalice. Also, you got a little unlucky in the last game. I have actually never seen a Whitchbane Orb in play. As we always say this is a really tough deck to learn to play, but Great Nate has more experience than all of us (most likely) with Jeskai Geist style decks so he will be just fine. I can confidently say Nate is a better player than myself with experience with a deck.
I want to say thank you to Great Nate for the shoutout on the stream and for giving our deck a try. Best of luck the rest of the week!
I have to admit I am a bit nervous to watch the games on Nate's channel because my personal deck is "tweaked" to my playstyle and is really hard to learn to play well. However, Nate is a great player so I assume he will be able to pilot it just as well, if not better, than myself. I am keeping my fingers crossed for decent matchups and decent variance so we can get at least a couple of wins :). With Nate showing the deck to so many and Ross Merriam recently playing jeskai delver on SCG a couple of times, I really think the deck is picking up steam. Hopefully your group gets a bit more time. A lot of time I resort to playing against my brother with a bunch of modern decks if our playgroup can't get together. Life gets in the way of magic sometimes :). I have a 3 year old so I have less time to play than I would like, but I wouldn't change a thing. It's great to hear from you and I hope you get to play the deck soon.
Here is my current list if anyone wants to see it
4 Monastery Swiftspear
3 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Bedlam Reveler
1 Spell Queller
3 Lightning Helix
1 Boros Charm
2 Vapor Snag
3 Path to Exile
3 Remand
2 Spell Pierce
1 Echoing Truth
3 Opt
3 Serum Visions
1 Distortion Strike
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcAtC5bpU_M
I must say I think Nate played very well and found the correct lines. The one mana "mishap" didn't cost him anything and other than that he played WAY better than I would think an average person picking up the deck would play. Thanks again to Nate for playing the deck.
I am recovering from a surgery atm so I am at home and I found the time to play 11 games with my newest build (the list I just posted with Search, Stronghold, 2 Mana Leaks) since Oct 29th on MTGO. It went pretty well
2-1 vs Boros Burn
2-0 vs Lantern Control
2-1 vs Vampire Aggro
2-1 vs UB Control (Budget)
1-2 vs GR TitanShift with Breach
2-1 vs UR Aggro with Fiend, Thing, Enigma Drake
2-1 vs Naya Burn
2-0 vs a strange Sultai Ramp/Control Brew including Valakut
2-1 vs Affinity
2-0 vs Mono Black Devotion
2-0 vs Grixis Aggro Brew with hand disruption, Brutality, Swiftspear, Enigma Drake and Chart a Course
Not all of these are Tier decks but the games were all fun!
During these eleven games I'd say that these have been my Top6 MVP cards: Snapcaster Mage, Deflecting Palm, Lightning Helix, Mana Leak, Slayers' Stronghold and Search for Azcanta! The last two surprised me because they are much better than I had expected.
Well, Delver, Geist, Path of course also did a lot of work... I guess there is not a single card in my deck that I don't love
Btw, until now I uploaded videos with gameplay twice here in this forum and I was wondering if these were interesting? If many of you have watched them and found them helpful somehow (without comment and all) I can upload some interesting games from the ones I listed up above.
Next I will finally try to compete in a competitive league.
Hi Stevomat. I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say, we hope you get well soon and you have a smooth recovery. That's one nice thing about having magic as a hobby because it doesn't ask too much of us physically :).
Congrats on the great record! Playing magic is always fun, but I will admit I enjoy it a little bit more when I'm winning.
I would LOVE to see videos. I must have missed the prior videos, but would love to see them again if you can upload them. How do you upload them? Please do provide a video so I can see how to watch them. I assume others would love to see the videos as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycP8Un8paJg
He makes some great suggestions for the deck in the beginning of the video. I really like his {c]grim lavamancer[/c] suggestion. I may have to find a way to get him into the sideboard at minium. He also mentions Boomerang. That is a super sweet card that would be so awesome in a aggressive/tempo style build. Bouncing their first land on the play would almost be game over already. With that said, the deck doesn't have many problems winning on the play, the weakness of the deck is on the draw (like most decks in modern). I have never tried Boomerang, but I definitely will test it now.
He also tweaks the deck a bet to match his personal preferences and what he thinks is best. I really love to see this because I have always said that one of the great things about this deck is that you can put your own signature on the deck. Let us know what you think of his changes and recommendations. I am always open to constructive criticism, especially from all of you and Nate.
PS- There is a bonus matchup outside of the league against a RG ramp brew. I won't spoil if he wins or loses, but I will say variance was definitely on his opponents side and that this reaffirms my opinion that Blood Moon should be banned.
I agree that he is getting better with the deck very quickly. I let him know that the line of vapor snagging Geist and snap bolting after supreme verdict showed that he is really seeing the lines of the deck very well.
Switfspear is a polarizing card. You either love it or hate it. One downside to the card is that you really have to have an aggressive slant to the deck to utilize swiftspear. I personally couldn’t play the deck without her, but she fits my style. I don’t think having lavamancer/young pyromancer is “worse” by any stretch, just a different strategy.
I probably stated my hatred for blood moon incorrectly. I don’t think it should be banned, I just don’t like what the card does to games of magic. You are correct that we have lots of ways around it. I typically fetch basic island against them but the Ponza decks normally kill that too. Blood moon has not shown near enough damage to modern to discuss its banning seriously. I think the only reason it would ever be banned is if they took away 9th and 10th edition from modern, but I don’t see that happening unless they reprint tron lands.
tbh, i think at a certain point, they will move the "time-line" for Modern forwards to exclude all sets before 10th Edition... however that would mean Blood Moon is still legal (its in Modern Masters) but they could ban it, which is in an extent, bad form.
why i say this is because they did the same thing for Extended neos ago (then called type 1.5).
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
If anything choke and boil are what's wrong with land hosers. Specifically hating one type of lands is stupid, Blood Moon is symmetrical and I've only had problems when I was behind. Also, instead of bans we should be discussing unbans or printing new cards that help solve problems. Banning almost certainly lead to more bans.
On GreatNate's videos, I think he could've won the Penza (and the first etron match) if he were more familiar with the deck and it's play style. One thing that "bothered" me, if you will, is tha for a guy that has advocated so much for jeskai geist he doesn't trust Deflecting Palm at all... I mean it flips the etron matchup easily, wrecks infect and is as good as a removal against DS. It will also deal with a plated etched champion and in general big fatties. [A friend hates the card, and me, because he's lost to it both in modern and commander several times].
Overall, after getting a closer look at CurdBros' decks (visual spoiler does that) and how it plays I it reaffirmed my position that the deck needs a real finisher, which the Reveler isn't, and that chart a course can (or should) be our go to CA card.
I typically agree with your views Mr. Tzoulis, but this is one of those times I have to disagree on several things. I dislike strongly when individuals say we shouldn’t talk about bans and rather talk about unbans. There is no value lost in discussing both bans and unbans. Again, I don't think blood moon can seriously be considered for a banning by any stretch, I just personally don't like the card. With that said, I shouldn’t bring those topics up because they derail the thread. I apologize for doing that. I do have to say that I cringe every time I see the card Choke and Boil because they have wrecked me in the past. I will agree that I might need another island rather than a second seachrome coast. Nate would have won the Ponza match if the second coast was an island. I will have try that. I also think you are correct that I should try playing blood moon. I have thought about it in the past and just couldn't bring myself to do it although I probably would have benefited.
On Bedlam Reveler you will be surprised when I say I couldn’t disagree more. My only original goal with the deck was to try to fix the long standing weaknesses of the classic jeskai delver deck without damaging too greatly the aggro-control role of the deck. The first thing I decided was we needed a way to get through damage against lots of creatures, so I added distortion strike and echoing truth. Strike is a card that does hurt the overall aggro-control plan, but is a necessary evil for me. Echoing truth fits perfectly And has the added benefit of bouncing problem cards (like blood moon).
This leads us to Reveler. The largest single problem I personally hated when playing boremandos or the old jeskai delver list was that the deco struggled a ton when I wasn’t ahead. This is still a “weakness” or a general conclusion of taking a more aggressive stance, but I wanted to see if there were any cards that could mitigate this. I turn planeswalkers, thundermaw hellkite, ancestral vision, etc, but none really fit in the play style or had too high of a casting cost. Actually, chandra, pyromaster was the best fit for awhile but I didn’t love the 4 CMC. Then reveler was spoiled and it fit perfectly. It refuels the hand, is plenty big to finish off a game in an aggressive deck, it can be played at the top end of an aggressive curve quickly and can be utilized in a midrange matchup, it works extremely well with vapor snag and echoing truth, and dodges inquisition and fatal push. Obviously, I’m biased as I have advocated for the card for awhile, but I feel it’s a bit disengenious to say reveler isn’t a finisher. I am curious what in the videos made you dislike reveler? I am not trying to be dismissive, I truly want to know because I value your opinion very highly.
Like I always say, different strokes for different folks. I’m truly happy you guys/gals have fostered an environment where you and I can share disagreements without putting down the person with whom you disagree. I think that’s the best way to becoming a better player and it’s just the right thing to do. I also agree that he could and probably would have won both games he lost if he had been a little more familiar with the deck. I also agree with your assessment of deflecting palm. Everyone here knows I have an unhealthy love for that card. It warms my heart to hear that you are crushing your friends with it. Every time a game dies to deflecting palm and angel gets it's wings
I honestly thought Nate would try the Young Pyro version of the deck because mine is a bit less mainstream than most, but I’m glad he didn’t because it helps me learn about card choices outside of my own play. That’s a rather selfish view, but I like to be honest. I can’t wait to see his last two rounds (if he streams them). Ok I think this wall of text is sufficiently large now so I will stop building 😃.
PS- If you have time, can you post your current list. I would love to see it.
EDIT- I hate autocorrect on my phone.
Chart has been a little love/hate for me personally. I have found that I often want to hold up removal or counter magic rather than casting chart. I'm still sticking with one because so many of you have had such good results with it like Mr. Tzoulis. I think it definitely fits best into the all in prowess lists that try to dump their hands and fits even better into the more midrange style builds that run 19-21 lands. While I can't help too much with the building of a Young P/Chart deck I do love to see it performing so well.
Very true on reveler. He doesn't play well with counter magic. I have had several times where I discard a dead spell pierce in the late game when I cast him. I guess the card was dead anyways, but it would be nice to be able to cast it to lower his casting cost.
I have recently been trying a split of 3/3 on Serum Visions and Opt. I don't think the 2/4 split was bad per say , it was mainly due to the fact that storm had become so prevalent that I wanted to be able to hold up Spell Pierce as often as possible. I have heard several people comment that I should likely switch the ratio to 4 serum visions and 2 opt so I decided to meet in the middle and go 3 and 3. I haven't had seen any difference in delver flips that I have noted, but I will start looking for the instances where opt could have been serum visions.
A couple of cards I have been interested in lately are Twisted Image and Counterflux in the sideboard. Is anyone running either?