Shattering spree on Chalice? Wouldn't work right? when they chalice at 1 (the most disruptive to delver + swiftspear lists).
Hi, this should work just fine as long as you Replicate the spell at least once. The original spell gets countered but the copies are created on the stack, they are not cast so Chalice has no effect on them.
Hi Black_Dog, very interesting how similar our lists are!
I run 14 threats which are very similar to yours:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Hazoret the Fervent
I also love Thundermaw and Elspeth but I am not confident to cast a CMC5 card and a card that costs WW. I played Elspeth for a long time and most games she was very good. I'll test her again online.
Our spells also look very similar, atm I run the following counters:
2 Remand
2 Spell Pierce
1 Logic Knot
1 Swerve
Your fun-of Shadow of Doubt is a fun-of Swerve in my deck. I guess both cards are a bit narrow but much fun when they work.
Personally, if I wanted to prey on my opponent's mana base I'd run 3 copies of Squelch because you'd want to use them on turn 2, but I understand that you can always cast Shadow because you need no target.
I think that Spell Pierce is the best counter spell in a Delver Deck and really recommend trying 2 copies mainboard.
4 Serum Visions are an auto-include in a Delver deck.
My Burn/Removal package:
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
1 Boros Charm
1 Jeskai Charm
4 Path to Exile
I was also running Valorous Stance for a while but I returned to playing 4 Paths. The spell is just too effective to not run a full playset.
Your Electrolyzes are two Charms in my deck. They don't draw new cards but they do more for the mana imho.
The last two spells I am running are 1 Vapor Snag and 1 Emerge Unscathed for protection and tempo. They never disappoint me
I am also running 21 lands and I think it's the right amount for our kind of deck. My mana base is a bit kinder on the life total than yours I think. However, looking at your lands I included Stronghold again (Fumarole had to go) and so far I really like it.
Lands (21)
2 Arid Mesa
3 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Mountain
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Spirebluff Canal
1 Inspiring Vantage
1 Seachrome Coast
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Slayers' Stronghold
What's very different is how we build our sideboards.
I also run
1 Dispel
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Wear // Tear
1 Supreme Verdict
but the rest is different. I would never cut the following six cards from my sideboard
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Stony Silence
2 Deflecting Palm
but maybe it's a meta thing that you don't need them. The rest of my sideboard looks like this:
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Celestial Purge
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Worship
Your Young Pyromancers in the board look interesting. Against which decks do you board them in?
All in all I am very happy with my deck atm. On MTGO my win is about 80% (last 30 games).
I am sorry that I can never add something to the Opt topic but the card just doesn't fit in this deck.
I tried to clean up the my list a bit and get back to a more concentrated gameplan in game one. I removed the 1 of spell queller and added a fourth Monastery Swiftspear. My build performs much better when I have a turn 1 threat and/or cheap threats. I decided to make the threat package as concise as possible for more consistency and a more explosive start.
As for the spells, I added back one of my original favorite cards in this archetype - Distortion Strike. I just love this card and the additional damage it provides especially with swiftspear. It also works a little better on offense than Emerge Unscathed in the current meta with the top two decks being brown decks (artifacts). It can't protect like Emerge can, but I am not as worried about that currently.
Finally in the flex slot I am currently trying Search for Azcanta. It has been excellent in post board games and against grindy decks. It may be best as a sideboard option against more grindy decks. The only downside I have found is using it when I need a threat. You want to draw the additional card, but you don't want to put a threat on the bottom of your deck at that point. Luckily we run Opt and Serum Visions for additional deck manipulation which lowers this downside. It does help us flip delvers as well.
Hi Black_Dog, very interesting how similar our lists are!
I run 14 threats which are very similar to yours:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Hazoret the Fervent
I also love Thundermaw and Elspeth but I am not confident to cast a CMC5 card and a card that costs WW. I played Elspeth for a long time and most games she was very good. I'll test her again online.
Our spells also look very similar, atm I run the following counters:
2 Remand
2 Spell Pierce
1 Logic Knot
1 Swerve
Your fun-of Shadow of Doubt is a fun-of Swerve in my deck. I guess both cards are a bit narrow but much fun when they work.
Personally, if I wanted to prey on my opponent's mana base I'd run 3 copies of Squelch because you'd want to use them on turn 2, but I understand that you can always cast Shadow because you need no target.
I think that Spell Pierce is the best counter spell in a Delver Deck and really recommend trying 2 copies mainboard.
4 Serum Visions are an auto-include in a Delver deck.
My Burn/Removal package:
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
1 Boros Charm
1 Jeskai Charm
4 Path to Exile
I was also running Valorous Stance for a while but I returned to playing 4 Paths. The spell is just too effective to not run a full playset.
Your Electrolyzes are two Charms in my deck. They don't draw new cards but they do more for the mana imho.
The last two spells I am running are 1 Vapor Snag and 1 Emerge Unscathed for protection and tempo. They never disappoint me
I am also running 21 lands and I think it's the right amount for our kind of deck. My mana base is a bit kinder on the life total than yours I think. However, looking at your lands I included Stronghold again (Fumarole had to go) and so far I really like it.
Lands (21)
2 Arid Mesa
3 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Mountain
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Spirebluff Canal
1 Inspiring Vantage
1 Seachrome Coast
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Slayers' Stronghold
What's very different is how we build our sideboards.
I also run
1 Dispel
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Wear // Tear
1 Supreme Verdict
but the rest is different. I would never cut the following six cards from my sideboard
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Stony Silence
2 Deflecting Palm
but maybe it's a meta thing that you don't need them. The rest of my sideboard looks like this:
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Celestial Purge
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Worship
Your Young Pyromancers in the board look interesting. Against which decks do you board them in?
All in all I am very happy with my deck atm. On MTGO my win is about 80% (last 30 games).
I am sorry that I can never add something to the Opt topic but the card just doesn't fit in this deck.
Hi Stevomat. I love to see two different lists that come to very similar conclusions. That basically shows that you are onto something great. As I have said before, your list is slightly different from mine (mainly swiftspear), but that doesn't mean anyone is right or wrong, just different approaches.
I'm glad to hear your still killing it on MTGO. I haven't been on MTGO in awhile, but I do have a goal for the end of the year to play enough leagues to get a 5-0 finish as some point and hopefully get the list published.
So back from a GREAT magic day where I went 4-0 with an updated list. All I can say is I'm probably having the most fun I've ever had playing modern so far with this deck.
I decided to try a different approach and go for a more grindy oriented build. I'd say it couldn't have worked better. I cut the Swiftspears for 3 Pyromancers and, man, did they do some work. With so many cantrips there were many games where I went Delver into Pyromancer and I just cruised them to victory. I beat Bant Hexproof on the back of pyromancer, geist and Deflecting Palm (<3), then beat Burn rather easily. The most difficult match up was predictably Abzan Midrange, where I almost won the 1st game but she went Souls, into Rhino, Rhino when she was at 9 and I had a Hazoret, a Boros Charm and an Emerge Unscathed. The 2nd Rhino really did me in... In the second game I just went double delver remand and rode them to victory because she shocked - thoughtseized, and the 3rd was one of the most absurd games I've played in while, but eventually I won on the back of Blood Moon and Hazoret. The last match was against Esper Eldrazi, and where before I'd struggle (with the swiftspears) now pyromancers were just too much.
Overall, Chart a Course was friggin' amazing EVERY.SINGLE.TIME. Coupled with my 6 cantrips, I was seeing a huge amounts of cards and I could recover after many discards or find relevant cards, like Helices and Snaps against Burn. I highly recommend at least 2 in the main. I believe I've found the perfect list for me, main board at least , since I've still haven't found adequate cards for grindy match-ups. When I get my hands on some Search for Azceanta I'll give them a try.
So back from a GREAT magic day where I went 4-0 with an updated list. All I can say is I'm probably having the most fun I've ever had playing modern so far with this deck.
I decided to try a different approach and go for a more grindy oriented build. I'd say it couldn't have worked better. I cut the Swiftspears for 3 Pyromancers and, man, did they do some work. With so many cantrips there were many games where I went Delver into Pyromancer and I just cruised them to victory. I beat Bant Hexproof on the back of pyromancer, geist and Deflecting Palm (<3), then beat Burn rather easily. The most difficult match up was predictably Abzan Midrange, where I almost won the 1st game but she went Souls, into Rhino, Rhino when she was at 9 and I had a Hazoret, a Boros Charm and an Emerge Unscathed. The 2nd Rhino really did me in... In the second game I just went double delver remand and rode them to victory because she shocked - thoughtseized, and the 3rd was one of the most absurd games I've played in while, but eventually I won on the back of Blood Moon and Hazoret. The last match was against Esper Eldrazi, and where before I'd struggle (with the swiftspears) now pyromancers were just too much.
Overall, Chart a Course was friggin' amazing EVERY.SINGLE.TIME. Coupled with my 6 cantrips, I was seeing a huge amounts of cards and I could recover after many discards or find relevant cards, like Helices and Snaps against Burn. I highly recommend at least 2 in the main. I believe I've found the perfect list for me, main board at least , since I've still haven't found adequate cards for grindy match-ups. When I get my hands on some Search for Azceanta I'll give them a try.
Congrats on the 4-0 finish! That's great to hear. We have always ended up playing similar lists and I have come to similar conclusions to you. Chart a Course was very good nearly every time I played it. It was especially great in grindy matchups. If you were having problems with the grindy matchups then adding Young Pyromancer and Chart a Course to your deck will definitely make those matchups so much better. I totally agree with you about how fun this deck is to play. Every time I think about trying something else I just want to play my jeskai prowess list.
For my personal list, I can't cut Monastery Swiftspear, but I have added Young Pyromancer to my sideboard for the grindy matchups. I basically side into playing your deck in post board games in grindy matchups. The only problem I forsee when going to a more grindy oriented main deck is losing our edge against the more combo/big mana style decks like storm, scapeshift, tron, etc. However, the meta has seemed to get a bit more grindy and your meta definitely sounds grindy with abzan and esper eldrazi.
I'm really glad to hear Chart a Course worked well for you. I have yet to see a person that tried it that didn't love it. Now I have to give a second copy a try. It's probably better than Search for Azcanta in my personal list. With that said, I do think Search for Azcanta will give UWx control/midrange a HUGE push back into tier 1-2 status. I really think the card is that good for grindy decks. It is an early play that helps you manipulate the top of your deck, fills your graveyard, then ramps you a land and keeps your hand full of spells. I do think it will be a staple of any Ux midrange/control deck in modern for the forseeable future. Now I just have to decide which one, chart a course or search for azcanta, fits best in my deck and/or if they will be mainboard or sideboard options.
With its addition as well as Opt, Young Pyromancer has gained a ton of power so it's a perfect time to give young p a mainboard slot. She works extremely well with Emerge Unscathed too. I actually made a more grindy list recently. Here it is.
I haven't made the sideboard for this version yet, but I will be giving it a try as well for fun. Something fun to do with all of the other cards that I have in my jeskai box that don't see a lot of play like Mentor, Young P, Cryptic, etc.
I'm a big fan of Mantis Rider and Prowess Aggro. (I've had good luck with twisted image Stormchaser mages before Git Probe ban)
Is tempo the way to play Jeskai now, I'm enjoying the decks but there have been so many good builds lately, looking at filling out and evolving my build, just trying to narrow down the cards to pick up.
Sorry for a non helpful post, and thanks for all the hard work on Jeskai you guys, this is a great forum.
I'm a big fan of Mantis Rider and Prowess Aggro. (I've had good luck with twisted image Stormchaser mages before Git Probe ban)
Is tempo the way to play Jeskai now, I'm enjoying the decks but there have been so many good builds lately, looking at filling out and evolving my build, just trying to narrow down the cards to pick up.
Sorry for a non helpful post, and thanks for all the hard work on Jeskai you guys, this is a great forum.
Welcome to the Topic Endruin! There are no non-helpful posts here. We like to hear from everyone and love to help where we can.
I also like to play the more aggressive versions of the deck as well. With the meta the way it is right now in most areas, the "flash" style decks are very well positioned right now. Spell Queller is typically great when bolt isn't seeing play. However, that also makes Mantis Rider a great option right now as well. I definitely think you can play a version of the jeskai aggro deck right now. I would suggest having access to a couple of Remands in the main deck for the combo oriented decks in game one, but other than that you can go all out prowess and be very successful.
The beautiful thing about the jeskai shard in modern is that you can really take it whichever way you prefer. If you like mantis rider, you should definitely play him. I personally like the Delver of Secrets, Monastery Swiftspear, Snapcaster Mage, Mantis Rider creatures suite, but you could definitely do something like this:
A creature that I personally think is WAY WAY WAY underplayed in the prowess decks is Bedlam Reveler. I absolutely love this card. It dodges inquisition and fatal push, fills your hand back, and offers a large prowess threat. In addition, he makes your bounce spells more potent as well. Other top end options are Cryptic Serpent which we haven't really talked about a ton, but he is just a solid beater, and Enigma Drake which is great in the super aggro builds along side Kiln Fiend. Geist of Saint Traft is awesome, but really fits best in a more tempo or aggro/control style build. Young Pyromancer is also a great option for the more controlling prowess decks.
My main question to you is do you want to be a super aggro deck like a kiln fiend deck that is more all in on spells, or a more aggro/tempo build. I feel like Mantis Rider fits better into an aggro/tempo build, but it comes down to preference. Once we know what kind of creature package you would prefer to run we can build the spells around that.
Since you already play the aggro/prowess deck I'm sure you know a lot of this, but I am going to list everything just to be thorough . For spells the base spells are
The remainder of the spells really comes down to what you are trying to accomplish in game one. With the aggro list you can play the more tempo oriented spells since you aren't really worried about getting to the late game. You mentioned Twisted Image which is awesome with Stormchaser Mage. Other options are the following:
Boros Charm- I would highly recommend 2 copies of his card in the aggro build as protection and direct damage
Thought Scour- Good cantrip for the enigma drake/cryptic serpent decks.
Emerge Unscathed- A personal favorite of mine and Mr. Tzoulis, it helps you protect your threats at instant speed and also get psuedo unblockability through protection from a color.
Vapor Snag- A hugely versatile card in the aggressive decks. I love this card and play two copies. The 1 damage can also be very helpful.
Echoing Truth- I think I am the only person that runs one of these main, but I love it. Its great at bouncing a wierd problem permanent like Chalice of the Void, Phyrexian Unlife (although I have never done this), etc and is also great against the always dreaded Lingering Souls. It can also be utilized aggressively if you run snapcaster mage and/or bedlam reveler.
Jeskai Charm- This one is fairly straightforward. Three mana is a lot, but a several people love this card.
Elecrolyze- Again, three mana is a lot, but this is always a good fun of.
Spell Pierce- This is my personal favorite counter spell in the aggro/control style builds after Remand.
Spell Snare- Another great 1 mana counter. I'm not a huge fan, but some live by this spell. Ryan Overturf of SCG doesn't leave home without 4, but he plays the wrong shard (grixis) :).
Censor- I like this one in any deck that utilizes the graveyard greatly like the enigma drake and cryptic serpent decks.
There are number of spells I haven't listed, but I won't add anymore to the wall of text until after you let us know approximately what style of creatures you want to play and what style of deck you prefer- straight aggro/prowess, aggro/tempo, or tempo/midrange.
I'm a big fan of Mantis Rider and Prowess Aggro. (I've had good luck with twisted image Stormchaser mages before Git Probe ban)
Is tempo the way to play Jeskai now, I'm enjoying the decks but there have been so many good builds lately, looking at filling out and evolving my build, just trying to narrow down the cards to pick up.
Sorry for a non helpful post, and thanks for all the hard work on Jeskai you guys, this is a great forum.
Cheers and welcome!
I think Mantis Rider still has play in our archetype because it excels at flying above the groundpounders. I had good success with a flyer heavy list before and still sport a flying heavy deck today. Just off the top of my head, the best flyers we can have in our deck would be:
Thanks for the guidance, I had not played the Delver version, I had played Goblin Guides and Mutagenic Growth in a more creature heavy build.
I can see the advantage, and just based on the cards I imagine you can cycle though your deck pretty quickly. Love Remand from my Fish playing days, and Chart a Course seems really strong.
So many great options, and creatures, and spells... Just the best colors period.
Thanks again for the help, looking forward to testing.
I am trying Search for Azcanta and Young Pyro as 1-ofs atm and thanks to Black_Dog I am giving Elspeth another chance (attached picture is my mainboard, lands & SB are the same). I don't them very often but when I do they're both great. Have played 6 games since yesterday with this build on MTGO and won all of them. I won against Boros Burn, UR Storm, BW Tokens, Temur Tempo, Bant Company, and Goblins.
I hate Jeskai Charm. Too little value for 3CC. A choose one and none of the choices are outstanding. If Geist or Electrolyze or Clique are the benchmark @ 3CC, Jeskai Charm feels really bad.
I think this is the one point you're wrong about. Let me show you my last game against Goblins. Without gaining 8 life with Jeskai Charm I would have lost. And that's just one awesome mode. I have finished countless games just by shooting 4 dmg to the face. And not so long ago I had a funny (for me) match against a green list running Hornet Nest. I had a flipped Delver and a Geist in play but attacking into the Nest would have been terrible. Fortunately I had Jeskai Charm and put it back on top of his library, then attacked for 9. He did recast the Nest on his next turn but I had Vapor Snag too for the win
I dont play this deck but always almost build it. Stacks of cards sleeved and near ready.
How does everyone feel about anointed procession along side Geist of Saint Traft ? I know its a bit tempo slow. Synergy wise might be worth it. I believe the angel copy stays.
Ran into an Utopian sprawl + arbor elf + blood moon + stormbreath dragon deck. Couldn't do jack all against it. Love that stormbreath dragon. Can't be pushed, bolted, or pathed. Too bad 5 drop a bit hard for us to fit
Ran into an Utopian sprawl + arbor elf + blood moon + stormbreath dragon deck. Couldn't do jack all against it. Love that stormbreath dragon. Can't be pushed, bolted, or pathed. Too bad 5 drop a bit hard for us to fit
that is pretty much Modern in a nutshell. all decks are 45/50 against the field.
its a g/r ponza deck right? nothing much you can do against it when it gets its nut draw. i guess you could vapor snag the stormbreath but that would probably only buy you a turn. blood moon is the usual anti-fun-police card in modern. fwiw, that deck tends to be inconsistent and mulligans badly. /shrugs
Very interesting idea WickedApp. I had never thought of that. You are probably right that it may be a bit too cut, but in a deck that has Geist of Saint Traft, Young Pyromancer, and/or Monastery Mentor it actually may be worth it. Also, I recommend building the deck. There is no deck that is more fun to play than jeskai delver/prowess/tempo.
EncaliburMTG- My brother plays devotion to green (as you can see in our signature and we share an account on here). Big mana decks are really tough matchups, especially for the more midrange version of jeskai tempo. Stormbreath Dragon lives in the same town as Thrun, the Last Troll, and now Carnage Tyrant. They are just an absolute beating against us. There is not a ton that can be done beyond Deflecting Palm and Blessed Alliance for those type of creatures. Vapor Snag is great against the pro white creatures like Stormbreath Dragon and pro red creatures like Master of Waves. I have had a lot of success lately against the GRx Titan/Ponza decks with Shadow of Doubt stifling their mana ramp all while attacking with swiftspear, delver, or giest.
I can't share it all since it is paid content, but I wanted to post something I totally agree with. He said the following- "Your sideboard shouldn't just be a collection of bullets; it should be a compilation of hidden gameplans to level your opponents." This is something I really have a hard time explaining to newer players. This is also why cards like Deflecting Palm are so valuable. They switch the dynamic of the game by utilizing our strategy and utilizing the opponents strategy for our benefit. This is also the reason I cut Stoney Silence from my board and added Search for Azcanta. My tron and affinity matchups were already good, but I needed something to change the dynamic of the grindy matchups. This is a topic we will discuss more in depth.
On another note, This weeks matchup discussion is Eldrazi Tron. I will post my thoughts on the matchup soon, but feel free to post what you think of the matchup and how you sideboard. Thanks guys/gals!
Preboard- 40/60 unfavored- This deck is a weird one for sure. I would say we are unfavored by theory. With that said, it seems like I always either win easily or lose easily. It basically comes down to two things- do they have a chalice in their opening hand or do they have tron by turn 3. If both of those answers are no, we are probably winning the game. I have played this deck many times and they either go nuts and win or basically keep playing lands, expedition maps, and mind stones and do nothing. I, for one, could not play this deck and I totally understand why it was the actual worst deck in terms of conversion rate on day 2 in the SCG modern tournament last week.
Gameplan- My gameplan in game one against them is the basic level 1 game plan of our deck. Land an early threat or a mid game threat and keep the board as clean as possible. Save your removal for the larger threats. Remand is an absolute house in this matchup if they don't draw Cavern of Souls. I would go as far as to say it's the best card in the matchup. Spell Pierce is also extremely good here against an early Chalice of Void. Another very underated play is to spell pierce or wera/tear their early expedition map. They need a ton of mana to implement their gameplan and a bump in the road is sometimes all we need to win. Because they don't play any fliers and don't play a lot of early removal, Delver of Secrets is also very good against them.
Gameplan- My gameplan post board is a bit more tempo oriented than in game one although the strategy stays the same for the most part. Deflecting Palm gives us a very cool option if they land a big beater. It's especially great against Wurmcoil Engine and Batterskull because they don't get the life gain. I tend to be more aggressive post board to kill them quickly because I have access to deflecting palm. Ceremonious Rejection is obviously great against them. There are no sure fire sideboard cards against ETron that really flip the matchup, but we have plenty of removal and counter magic to utilize an aggro/control or tempo gameplan to beat them regularly.
In the end Eldrazi tron is a super weird matchup. It can be a nightmare or sweet dream. I have had very good results against them actually, but based on theory alone and on what other have said, I have to say that this is tough matchup for us. What do you guys/gals think?
To be frank I've never found the pre-board matchup to be unfavorable, probably closer to 50-50, 55-45 for us. Although, to be fair a chalice on 1 t2 probably means we're losing that game, but they don't run THAT much removal and their dismembers help us.
Now, as for sideboarding, I'm bringing in Wear//Tear, my 3 Blood Moons and my 2 Deflecting Palms and it turns out favorable (Mindcensor is a recent addition so and it hasn't been tried against Etron). I'd wager a 60-40, but there aren't that many players of Etron at my store, so be skeptical about my results.
Now, I played yesterday a 20man TNM in my store and I'm happy to say that I went 5-0! (so close to the 10-0)
I'm just fine tuning the list but I still want to get a 3rd Spell Pierce in the main, so Brainstorm ideas please! Chart a Course continues to be amazeballs (Foils arrived :D) and helping me keep up with other control decks, haven't managed to play with any GDS or Abzan deck with my revised list though. I know in general you haven't tried Hazoret, the Fervent too much, Curdbro is in love with Bedlam Reveler for example, but she keeps destroying games for me. I think I've got around 90% win ration when I resolve one. Especially with the printing of Chart a Course I don't really think we need the effect of Reveler, because we can now keep up with control decks and recover from a fair amount of discards. Granted, In my list Pyromancers are a massive headache for those decks, but still...
I faced 2 Bant Knightfall decks where pyromancers were OP, giving me free blocks while I was either clearing the board and/or cantriping away and eventually my reach and flyers got through. I destroyed one esper control deck, admittedly in the first game he had natural mana problems, and in the 2nd because of Blood Moon.
The last couple of matches was against burn, which I'm delighted to say I the 3 helices and the counters help alot and one GW hatebears deck which couldn't keep up with my removal.
Before the event I playetested with a friend of mine who also plays Esper Control, a much better build than the one I won in the even, and we ended like 4-1 in my favor preboard, and the 1 win he took it because he found the 1 path he needed to deal with my hazoret and then ran away with the game by playing 3 gideons and gaining cards with search for azcanta. I'm dubious on the jeskai tempo/control deck that's been showing up in SCG and GP events, but if previous experience is any indication we should be favored against them as well.
To be frank I've never found the pre-board matchup to be unfavorable, probably closer to 50-50, 55-45 for us. Although, to be fair a chalice on 1 t2 probably means we're losing that game, but they don't run THAT much removal and their dismembers help us.
Now, as for sideboarding, I'm bringing in Wear//Tear, my 3 Blood Moons and my 2 Deflecting Palms and it turns out favorable (Mindcensor is a recent addition so and it hasn't been tried against Etron). I'd wager a 60-40, but there aren't that many players of Etron at my store, so be skeptical about my results.
Now, I played yesterday a 20man TNM in my store and I'm happy to say that I went 5-0! (so close to the 10-0)
I'm just fine tuning the list but I still want to get a 3rd Spell Pierce in the main, so Brainstorm ideas please! Chart a Course continues to be amazeballs (Foils arrived :D) and helping me keep up with other control decks, haven't managed to play with any GDS or Abzan deck with my revised list though. I know in general you haven't tried Hazoret, the Fervent too much, Curdbro is in love with Bedlam Reveler for example, but she keeps destroying games for me. I think I've got around 90% win ration when I resolve one. Especially with the printing of Chart a Course I don't really think we need the effect of Reveler, because we can now keep up with control decks and recover from a fair amount of discards. Granted, In my list Pyromancers are a massive headache for those decks, but still...
I faced 2 Bant Knightfall decks where pyromancers were OP, giving me free blocks while I was either clearing the board and/or cantriping away and eventually my reach and flyers got through. I destroyed one esper control deck, admittedly in the first game he had natural mana problems, and in the 2nd because of Blood Moon.
The last couple of matches was against burn, which I'm delighted to say I the 3 helices and the counters help alot and one GW hatebears deck which couldn't keep up with my removal.
Before the event I playetested with a friend of mine who also plays Esper Control, a much better build than the one I won in the even, and we ended like 4-1 in my favor preboard, and the 1 win he took it because he found the 1 path he needed to deal with my hazoret and then ran away with the game by playing 3 gideons and gaining cards with search for azcanta. I'm dubious on the jeskai tempo/control deck that's been showing up in SCG and GP events, but if previous experience is any indication we should be favored against them as well.
Congrats on the 5-0!! I have had a lot of good results in a row too. I think the deck is just super well positioned right now. I agree about E Tron as well. In theory it should be a tough matchup, but my results so otherwise. It always seems like Remand just stops their huge threat and I kill them before they can get to the top end. Like you said, a chalice can spell an early ending, but other than that I have had great luck against them.
That's so crazy that you say that you want a 3rd Spell Pierce. I just added a second copy into my main deck. It is just so good right now and fits in so well with Opt. I totally agree with you on that topic.
It's true that I have a special place in my heart for Bedlam Reveler. He is just so great in the top end of a more aggressive build. With that said, Chart a Course may give that necessary card advantage to keep up with midrange decks. I did play a split of reveler/hazoret for a little while. Both were great in their own right. I really don't think Reveler is a better choice than Hazoret. They both are great finishers that offer what our deck needs at the top end- reach. Reveler through additional cards and Hazoret through hasty damage and through the discard damage. I will have to test Hazoret again. My main concern is just having too many cards in hand to attack or block with Hazoret. It's rare my hand is empty or at one card unless I know I am going to be casting a Bedlam Reveler.
Blood Moon has always interested me in the side board. I have a personal hatred for the card because I don't like the type of gameplay it causes so that's probably what has kept me from putting it in my sideboard. Do you just fetch island and plains early and cast it or do you side out a lot of the white cards? I typically need all three colors fairly early in the game so I have never thought of blood moon being a great option, but it obviously is working well for you. This is why I love the boards because you can learn so much from other members and try new things that just might make your deck better.
I wish there were more bant knightfall players around here. I literally have never played against that deck in an event or anything. It looks like a really fun matchup to play. Young P does sound great in that matchup and works well with Chart a Course because you can just attack with a 1/1 even if it might die to get the 2 additional cards. You have a supply of attackers for chart a course.
The matchup I have been grinding lately is UR Storm. That will be next weeks matchup discussion. Anybody else have E-tron analysis?
I concur with Spell Pierce, I have been a bit more experimental by removing Saheeli Rai and Smuggler's Copter for Spell Pierce and it has been very encouraging. My turn 1 Delvers and ending turn 2 with 2 lands untapped provides pressure on my opponent. if i resolve Young Pyromancer with a 3rd land, the game is almost in the bag.
I might end up cutting Vapor Snags (down to a copy or 2) for Smuggler's Copter. I find my deck a bit light weight on threats and leaning too much on the burn spells to finish / close out games. The elemental tokens, great as chump blockers could pull double duty (with YP) to crew Smuggler's Copter. Why i keep going back to Smuggler's Copter is because Serum Visions, Opt and if I run Chart a Course, those interactions with Copter are massive.
I agree with a lot of what you said about Ross Merriem's video. Spell Pierce is a very polarizing card. It can be amazing or terrible. I would probably never run more than 2 copies of the card only because it becomes a bad draw after about turn 4 usually. A card that is being overlooked in a lot of these decks is Vapor Snag. The card is great in this deck and the 1 damage sometimes matters. Snaging a big eldrazi or delve threat feels great and it's a 1 costed road bump for some really tough to deal with threats.
I also think you are correct about Spell Queller. I have been playing one copy of the card in the main deck and will likely add another to the sideboard. The card is just really well positioned right now. Every time I play spell queller I tell my brother not to let me remove it from the deck the next time I start tinkering, but my brewing sickness always takes over :).
i have been running 1 spellqueller in my deck also. the lone enigma drake is taking a backseat for a while. spellqueller is always good. and in the late game when the opponent is out of removal, its downright devastating.
Preboard- How the jeskai aggro/tempo deck fairs against storm is very much dependent on the specific build of jeskai aggro/tempo. Theoretically we have a very good matchup against storm. A clock backed by disruption is great against storm. With that said, the new style storm deck is very resilient and can go in the long game. In addition, Empty the Warrens in the mid game can be tough for us to deal with.
Spell Pierce is extremely valuable in this matchup as they play 17-18 lands and spell pierce is often a straight counter spell. Gifts Ungiven is a 4 CMC spell so pierce often can be utilized in the mid game as well. It's much easier for the storm player to "go off" with a Baral, Chief of Compliance and/or Goblin Electromancer on the board. However, it is very tough to get one to stick against a deck with path, bolt, helix, and vapor snag. If your jeskai tempo/prowess deck depends more on midrange aspects to win the matchup is tougher, but can still be won. If we can land an early threat I think we are favored to win against most storm hands. Their god hands will likely beat us regardless of what we have, but overall I think we are one of the better equipped decks to deal with storm especially in game one. Even though we are one of the best equipped decks to fight storm I would still say the matchup is 60/40 at best and is likely 50/50 in game one. That's why storm is growing so quickly. The counter magic in modern simply has a hard time matching up with the speed and power of spells and threats.
Post board strategy- Like I said above, we want to become a aggro/control or tempo style deck against them. Playing against storm can be very hard and getting reps against a good storm player is super valuable. The mistake a lot of people make is waiting to long to counter a spell in hopes to get the payoff spell. While that is normally the correct way to go about it, it is often not correct against storm because their payoff spells are storm spells and you only counter the first copy {unless you play counterflux). We basically want to start clocking them early and keep laying down speed bumps for them. Some great Surgical extraction targets are Manamorphose and the rituals. It's also great to Shadow of Doubt their Gifts Ungiven and then extract all copies. I don't normally extract the creatures because we have so many answers for small creatures.
I feel fairly comfortable against UR Storm, especially postboard. Just another reason why jeskai delver/tempo is well positioned in the current modern meta.
I agree with a lot of what you said about Ross Merriem's video. Spell Pierce is a very polarizing card. It can be amazing or terrible. I would probably never run more than 2 copies of the card only because it becomes a bad draw after about turn 4 usually. A card that is being overlooked in a lot of these decks is Vapor Snag. The card is great in this deck and the 1 damage sometimes matters. Snaging a big eldrazi or delve threat feels great and it's a 1 costed road bump for some really tough to deal with threats.
I also think you are correct about Spell Queller. I have been playing one copy of the card in the main deck and will likely add another to the sideboard. The card is just really well positioned right now. Every time I play spell queller I tell my brother not to let me remove it from the deck the next time I start tinkering, but my brewing sickness always takes over :).
Vapor Snag is life loss, it may matter (I've killed a couple people under their worship)
Haven't been able to play a lot this week due to midterms and a strike tomorrow >.< , last time I played I went 2-3 because of minor mistakes against esper control and afterwards bad running. I was considering adding the 3rd spell pierce in the main and maaaaaybe putting a couple of spell snares in the SB. They'll help against control, burn and storm. I'll Probably try them out this Saturday, so I'll keep you posted.
My matchup was definitely better when I had Swiftspears instead of Pyromancers, owing to more potential burst damage vs consistent DPT and/or value. Post SB I'm on the same plan as the Bros with 2 Surgical, 1 Rest in Peace, 1 Clique, 1 Mindcensor and from Saturday onward the snares. I also bring in anger and staticaster to fight off their Empty the Warrens plan. I mostly side out the protection package(Stance and Emerge), the lone snag, one or 2 Hazorets, electrolyze and might cut 1 snapcaster because of RiP. In general it's a match-up that lines pretty well with our gameplan, BUT be aware that most lists play Blood Moon, so be careful with your fetching since we have a greedy mana base.
Hi, this should work just fine as long as you Replicate the spell at least once. The original spell gets countered but the copies are created on the stack, they are not cast so Chalice has no effect on them.
Hi Black_Dog, very interesting how similar our lists are!
I run 14 threats which are very similar to yours:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Hazoret the Fervent
I also love Thundermaw and Elspeth but I am not confident to cast a CMC5 card and a card that costs WW. I played Elspeth for a long time and most games she was very good. I'll test her again online.
Our spells also look very similar, atm I run the following counters:
2 Remand
2 Spell Pierce
1 Logic Knot
1 Swerve
Your fun-of Shadow of Doubt is a fun-of Swerve in my deck. I guess both cards are a bit narrow but much fun when they work.
Personally, if I wanted to prey on my opponent's mana base I'd run 3 copies of Squelch because you'd want to use them on turn 2, but I understand that you can always cast Shadow because you need no target.
I think that Spell Pierce is the best counter spell in a Delver Deck and really recommend trying 2 copies mainboard.
4 Serum Visions are an auto-include in a Delver deck.
My Burn/Removal package:
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
1 Boros Charm
1 Jeskai Charm
4 Path to Exile
I was also running Valorous Stance for a while but I returned to playing 4 Paths. The spell is just too effective to not run a full playset.
Your Electrolyzes are two Charms in my deck. They don't draw new cards but they do more for the mana imho.
The last two spells I am running are 1 Vapor Snag and 1 Emerge Unscathed for protection and tempo. They never disappoint me
I am also running 21 lands and I think it's the right amount for our kind of deck. My mana base is a bit kinder on the life total than yours I think. However, looking at your lands I included Stronghold again (Fumarole had to go) and so far I really like it.
Lands (21)
2 Arid Mesa
3 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Mountain
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Spirebluff Canal
1 Inspiring Vantage
1 Seachrome Coast
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Slayers' Stronghold
What's very different is how we build our sideboards.
I also run
1 Dispel
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Wear // Tear
1 Supreme Verdict
but the rest is different. I would never cut the following six cards from my sideboard
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Stony Silence
2 Deflecting Palm
but maybe it's a meta thing that you don't need them. The rest of my sideboard looks like this:
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Celestial Purge
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Worship
Your Young Pyromancers in the board look interesting. Against which decks do you board them in?
All in all I am very happy with my deck atm. On MTGO my win is about 80% (last 30 games).
I am sorry that I can never add something to the Opt topic but the card just doesn't fit in this deck.
4 Monastery Swiftspear
3 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Bedlam Reveler
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
1 Boros Charm
2 Vapor Snag
1 Echoing Truth
3 Path to Exile
3 Remand
1 Spell Pierce
3 Serum Visions
3 Opt
1 Distortion Strike
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Flooded Strand
2 Spirebluff Canal
2 Seachrome Coast
2 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
I tried to clean up the my list a bit and get back to a more concentrated gameplan in game one. I removed the 1 of spell queller and added a fourth Monastery Swiftspear. My build performs much better when I have a turn 1 threat and/or cheap threats. I decided to make the threat package as concise as possible for more consistency and a more explosive start.
As for the spells, I added back one of my original favorite cards in this archetype - Distortion Strike. I just love this card and the additional damage it provides especially with swiftspear. It also works a little better on offense than Emerge Unscathed in the current meta with the top two decks being brown decks (artifacts). It can't protect like Emerge can, but I am not as worried about that currently.
Finally in the flex slot I am currently trying Search for Azcanta. It has been excellent in post board games and against grindy decks. It may be best as a sideboard option against more grindy decks. The only downside I have found is using it when I need a threat. You want to draw the additional card, but you don't want to put a threat on the bottom of your deck at that point. Luckily we run Opt and Serum Visions for additional deck manipulation which lowers this downside. It does help us flip delvers as well.
Hi Stevomat. I love to see two different lists that come to very similar conclusions. That basically shows that you are onto something great. As I have said before, your list is slightly different from mine (mainly swiftspear), but that doesn't mean anyone is right or wrong, just different approaches.
I'm glad to hear your still killing it on MTGO. I haven't been on MTGO in awhile, but I do have a goal for the end of the year to play enough leagues to get a 5-0 finish as some point and hopefully get the list published.
I have permanent slots in my sideboard for Wear // Tear, Deflecting Palm, and Negate and Dispel.
Thanks for posting and keep up the awesome results on MTGO!
2x Boros Charm
1x Electrolyze
2x Emerge Unscathed
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Lightning Helix
3x Opt
3x Path to Exile
2x Remand
2x Spell Pierce
1x Vapor Snag
Sorcery (5)
2x Chart A Course
3x Serum Visions
Land (18)
4x Flooded Strand
1x Hallowed Fountain
2x Island
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
3x Scalding Tarn
1x Seachrome Coast
3x Spirebluff Canal
2x Steam Vents
4x Delver of Secrets Flip
3x Geist of Saint Traft
2x Hazoret the Fervent
3x Snapcaster Mage
3x Young Pyromancer
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Aven Mindcensor
1x Bedlam Reveler
3x Blood Moon
1x Chart A Course
2x Deflecting Palm
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Rest in Peace
1x Supreme Verdict
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Wear / Tear
I decided to try a different approach and go for a more grindy oriented build. I'd say it couldn't have worked better. I cut the Swiftspears for 3 Pyromancers and, man, did they do some work. With so many cantrips there were many games where I went Delver into Pyromancer and I just cruised them to victory. I beat Bant Hexproof on the back of pyromancer, geist and Deflecting Palm (<3), then beat Burn rather easily. The most difficult match up was predictably Abzan Midrange, where I almost won the 1st game but she went Souls, into Rhino, Rhino when she was at 9 and I had a Hazoret, a Boros Charm and an Emerge Unscathed. The 2nd Rhino really did me in... In the second game I just went double delver remand and rode them to victory because she shocked - thoughtseized, and the 3rd was one of the most absurd games I've played in while, but eventually I won on the back of Blood Moon and Hazoret. The last match was against Esper Eldrazi, and where before I'd struggle (with the swiftspears) now pyromancers were just too much.
Overall, Chart a Course was friggin' amazing EVERY.SINGLE.TIME. Coupled with my 6 cantrips, I was seeing a huge amounts of cards and I could recover after many discards or find relevant cards, like Helices and Snaps against Burn. I highly recommend at least 2 in the main. I believe I've found the perfect list for me, main board at least , since I've still haven't found adequate cards for grindy match-ups. When I get my hands on some Search for Azceanta I'll give them a try.
Congrats on the 4-0 finish! That's great to hear. We have always ended up playing similar lists and I have come to similar conclusions to you. Chart a Course was very good nearly every time I played it. It was especially great in grindy matchups. If you were having problems with the grindy matchups then adding Young Pyromancer and Chart a Course to your deck will definitely make those matchups so much better. I totally agree with you about how fun this deck is to play. Every time I think about trying something else I just want to play my jeskai prowess list.
For my personal list, I can't cut Monastery Swiftspear, but I have added Young Pyromancer to my sideboard for the grindy matchups. I basically side into playing your deck in post board games in grindy matchups. The only problem I forsee when going to a more grindy oriented main deck is losing our edge against the more combo/big mana style decks like storm, scapeshift, tron, etc. However, the meta has seemed to get a bit more grindy and your meta definitely sounds grindy with abzan and esper eldrazi.
I'm really glad to hear Chart a Course worked well for you. I have yet to see a person that tried it that didn't love it. Now I have to give a second copy a try. It's probably better than Search for Azcanta in my personal list. With that said, I do think Search for Azcanta will give UWx control/midrange a HUGE push back into tier 1-2 status. I really think the card is that good for grindy decks. It is an early play that helps you manipulate the top of your deck, fills your graveyard, then ramps you a land and keeps your hand full of spells. I do think it will be a staple of any Ux midrange/control deck in modern for the forseeable future. Now I just have to decide which one, chart a course or search for azcanta, fits best in my deck and/or if they will be mainboard or sideboard options.
With its addition as well as Opt, Young Pyromancer has gained a ton of power so it's a perfect time to give young p a mainboard slot. She works extremely well with Emerge Unscathed too. I actually made a more grindy list recently. Here it is.
3 Monastery Mentor
3 Young Pyromancer
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
1 Vapor Snag
2 Remand
1 Spell Pierce
1 Logic Knot
4 Opt
2 Serum Visions
2 Cryptic Command
1 Boros Charm
2 Emerge Unscathed
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Flooded Strand
2 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Celestial Colonnade
I haven't made the sideboard for this version yet, but I will be giving it a try as well for fun. Something fun to do with all of the other cards that I have in my jeskai box that don't see a lot of play like Mentor, Young P, Cryptic, etc.
Is tempo the way to play Jeskai now, I'm enjoying the decks but there have been so many good builds lately, looking at filling out and evolving my build, just trying to narrow down the cards to pick up.
Sorry for a non helpful post, and thanks for all the hard work on Jeskai you guys, this is a great forum.
Welcome to the Topic Endruin! There are no non-helpful posts here. We like to hear from everyone and love to help where we can.
I also like to play the more aggressive versions of the deck as well. With the meta the way it is right now in most areas, the "flash" style decks are very well positioned right now. Spell Queller is typically great when bolt isn't seeing play. However, that also makes Mantis Rider a great option right now as well. I definitely think you can play a version of the jeskai aggro deck right now. I would suggest having access to a couple of Remands in the main deck for the combo oriented decks in game one, but other than that you can go all out prowess and be very successful.
The beautiful thing about the jeskai shard in modern is that you can really take it whichever way you prefer. If you like mantis rider, you should definitely play him. I personally like the Delver of Secrets, Monastery Swiftspear, Snapcaster Mage, Mantis Rider creatures suite, but you could definitely do something like this:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Stormchaser Mage
4 Mantis Rider
A creature that I personally think is WAY WAY WAY underplayed in the prowess decks is Bedlam Reveler. I absolutely love this card. It dodges inquisition and fatal push, fills your hand back, and offers a large prowess threat. In addition, he makes your bounce spells more potent as well. Other top end options are Cryptic Serpent which we haven't really talked about a ton, but he is just a solid beater, and Enigma Drake which is great in the super aggro builds along side Kiln Fiend. Geist of Saint Traft is awesome, but really fits best in a more tempo or aggro/control style build. Young Pyromancer is also a great option for the more controlling prowess decks.
My main question to you is do you want to be a super aggro deck like a kiln fiend deck that is more all in on spells, or a more aggro/tempo build. I feel like Mantis Rider fits better into an aggro/tempo build, but it comes down to preference. Once we know what kind of creature package you would prefer to run we can build the spells around that.
Since you already play the aggro/prowess deck I'm sure you know a lot of this, but I am going to list everything just to be thorough . For spells the base spells are
4 Bolt
2-3 Helix
2-3 Remand
3-4 Path to Exile
4-8 Serum Visions/Opt
The remainder of the spells really comes down to what you are trying to accomplish in game one. With the aggro list you can play the more tempo oriented spells since you aren't really worried about getting to the late game. You mentioned Twisted Image which is awesome with Stormchaser Mage. Other options are the following:
Boros Charm- I would highly recommend 2 copies of his card in the aggro build as protection and direct damage
Thought Scour- Good cantrip for the enigma drake/cryptic serpent decks.
Emerge Unscathed- A personal favorite of mine and Mr. Tzoulis, it helps you protect your threats at instant speed and also get psuedo unblockability through protection from a color.
Vapor Snag- A hugely versatile card in the aggressive decks. I love this card and play two copies. The 1 damage can also be very helpful.
Echoing Truth- I think I am the only person that runs one of these main, but I love it. Its great at bouncing a wierd problem permanent like Chalice of the Void, Phyrexian Unlife (although I have never done this), etc and is also great against the always dreaded Lingering Souls. It can also be utilized aggressively if you run snapcaster mage and/or bedlam reveler.
Jeskai Charm- This one is fairly straightforward. Three mana is a lot, but a several people love this card.
Elecrolyze- Again, three mana is a lot, but this is always a good fun of.
Valorous Stance- Utility is very nice.
Distortion Strike- Another great option for monastery swiftspear decks. It also pair extremely well with Geist of Saint Traft.
Counter Magic
Spell Pierce- This is my personal favorite counter spell in the aggro/control style builds after Remand.
Spell Snare- Another great 1 mana counter. I'm not a huge fan, but some live by this spell. Ryan Overturf of SCG doesn't leave home without 4, but he plays the wrong shard (grixis) :).
Censor- I like this one in any deck that utilizes the graveyard greatly like the enigma drake and cryptic serpent decks.
Deprive, Unsubstantiate, Logic Knot- Other options that are often 1 ofs.
There are number of spells I haven't listed, but I won't add anymore to the wall of text until after you let us know approximately what style of creatures you want to play and what style of deck you prefer- straight aggro/prowess, aggro/tempo, or tempo/midrange.
Cheers and welcome!
I think Mantis Rider still has play in our archetype because it excels at flying above the groundpounders. I had good success with a flyer heavy list before and still sport a flying heavy deck today. Just off the top of my head, the best flyers we can have in our deck would be:
Delver of Secrets (build dependent)
Mantis Rider
Enigma Drake
Smuggler's Copter (build dependent)
Spell Queller
In the sorcery/instant department the staples atm are:
Serum Visions
Opt
Lightning Bolt
Lightning Helix
Path to Exile
Remand
heavily favored cards that usually find space in our builds
Spell Pierce
Boros Charm
Logic Knot
Mana Leak
Vapor Snag
Charter a Course and Search for Azcanta are both being experimented now and i think both cards are very much playable in our decks.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
I can see the advantage, and just based on the cards I imagine you can cycle though your deck pretty quickly. Love Remand from my Fish playing days, and Chart a Course seems really strong.
So many great options, and creatures, and spells... Just the best colors period.
Thanks again for the help, looking forward to testing.
I think this is the one point you're wrong about. Let me show you my last game against Goblins. Without gaining 8 life with Jeskai Charm I would have lost. And that's just one awesome mode. I have finished countless games just by shooting 4 dmg to the face. And not so long ago I had a funny (for me) match against a green list running Hornet Nest. I had a flipped Delver and a Geist in play but attacking into the Nest would have been terrible. Fortunately I had Jeskai Charm and put it back on top of his library, then attacked for 9. He did recast the Nest on his next turn but I had Vapor Snag too for the win
How does everyone feel about anointed procession along side Geist of Saint Traft ? I know its a bit tempo slow. Synergy wise might be worth it. I believe the angel copy stays.
that is pretty much Modern in a nutshell. all decks are 45/50 against the field.
its a g/r ponza deck right? nothing much you can do against it when it gets its nut draw. i guess you could vapor snag the stormbreath but that would probably only buy you a turn. blood moon is the usual anti-fun-police card in modern. fwiw, that deck tends to be inconsistent and mulligans badly. /shrugs
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
EncaliburMTG- My brother plays devotion to green (as you can see in our signature and we share an account on here). Big mana decks are really tough matchups, especially for the more midrange version of jeskai tempo. Stormbreath Dragon lives in the same town as Thrun, the Last Troll, and now Carnage Tyrant. They are just an absolute beating against us. There is not a ton that can be done beyond Deflecting Palm and Blessed Alliance for those type of creatures. Vapor Snag is great against the pro white creatures like Stormbreath Dragon and pro red creatures like Master of Waves. I have had a lot of success lately against the GRx Titan/Ponza decks with Shadow of Doubt stifling their mana ramp all while attacking with swiftspear, delver, or giest.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/36029_Sideboarding-In-Modern.html
I can't share it all since it is paid content, but I wanted to post something I totally agree with. He said the following- "Your sideboard shouldn't just be a collection of bullets; it should be a compilation of hidden gameplans to level your opponents." This is something I really have a hard time explaining to newer players. This is also why cards like Deflecting Palm are so valuable. They switch the dynamic of the game by utilizing our strategy and utilizing the opponents strategy for our benefit. This is also the reason I cut Stoney Silence from my board and added Search for Azcanta. My tron and affinity matchups were already good, but I needed something to change the dynamic of the grindy matchups. This is a topic we will discuss more in depth.
On another note, This weeks matchup discussion is Eldrazi Tron. I will post my thoughts on the matchup soon, but feel free to post what you think of the matchup and how you sideboard. Thanks guys/gals!
Eldrazi Tron Matchup-
Preboard- 40/60 unfavored- This deck is a weird one for sure. I would say we are unfavored by theory. With that said, it seems like I always either win easily or lose easily. It basically comes down to two things- do they have a chalice in their opening hand or do they have tron by turn 3. If both of those answers are no, we are probably winning the game. I have played this deck many times and they either go nuts and win or basically keep playing lands, expedition maps, and mind stones and do nothing. I, for one, could not play this deck and I totally understand why it was the actual worst deck in terms of conversion rate on day 2 in the SCG modern tournament last week.
Gameplan- My gameplan in game one against them is the basic level 1 game plan of our deck. Land an early threat or a mid game threat and keep the board as clean as possible. Save your removal for the larger threats. Remand is an absolute house in this matchup if they don't draw Cavern of Souls. I would go as far as to say it's the best card in the matchup. Spell Pierce is also extremely good here against an early Chalice of Void. Another very underated play is to spell pierce or wera/tear their early expedition map. They need a ton of mana to implement their gameplan and a bump in the road is sometimes all we need to win. Because they don't play any fliers and don't play a lot of early removal, Delver of Secrets is also very good against them.
Sideboard cards- Ceremonious Rejection, Blessed Alliance, Wear // Tear, Deflecting Palm, Shattering Spree, Stony Silence
Post board- 50/50- even
Gameplan- My gameplan post board is a bit more tempo oriented than in game one although the strategy stays the same for the most part. Deflecting Palm gives us a very cool option if they land a big beater. It's especially great against Wurmcoil Engine and Batterskull because they don't get the life gain. I tend to be more aggressive post board to kill them quickly because I have access to deflecting palm. Ceremonious Rejection is obviously great against them. There are no sure fire sideboard cards against ETron that really flip the matchup, but we have plenty of removal and counter magic to utilize an aggro/control or tempo gameplan to beat them regularly.
In the end Eldrazi tron is a super weird matchup. It can be a nightmare or sweet dream. I have had very good results against them actually, but based on theory alone and on what other have said, I have to say that this is tough matchup for us. What do you guys/gals think?
Now, as for sideboarding, I'm bringing in Wear//Tear, my 3 Blood Moons and my 2 Deflecting Palms and it turns out favorable (Mindcensor is a recent addition so and it hasn't been tried against Etron). I'd wager a 60-40, but there aren't that many players of Etron at my store, so be skeptical about my results.
Now, I played yesterday a 20man TNM in my store and I'm happy to say that I went 5-0! (so close to the 10-0)
2x Boros Charm
1x Electrolyze
1x Emerge Unscathed
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Lightning Helix
3x Opt
3x Path to Exile
2x Remand
2x Spell Pierce
1x Valorous Stance
1x Vapor Snag
Sorcery (5)
2x Chart A Course
3x Serum Visions
4x Flooded Strand
1x Hallowed Fountain
2x Island
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
3x Scalding Tarn
1x Seachrome Coast
3x Spirebluff Canal
2x Steam Vents
Creature (15)
4x Delver of Secrets
3x Geist of Saint Traft
2x Hazoret the Fervent
3x Snapcaster Mage
3x Young Pyromancer
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Aven Mindcensor
3x Blood Moon
1x Chart A Course
2x Deflecting Palm
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Rest in Peace
1x Supreme Verdict
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Wear / Tear
I'm just fine tuning the list but I still want to get a 3rd Spell Pierce in the main, so Brainstorm ideas please! Chart a Course continues to be amazeballs (Foils arrived :D) and helping me keep up with other control decks, haven't managed to play with any GDS or Abzan deck with my revised list though. I know in general you haven't tried Hazoret, the Fervent too much, Curdbro is in love with Bedlam Reveler for example, but she keeps destroying games for me. I think I've got around 90% win ration when I resolve one. Especially with the printing of Chart a Course I don't really think we need the effect of Reveler, because we can now keep up with control decks and recover from a fair amount of discards. Granted, In my list Pyromancers are a massive headache for those decks, but still...
I faced 2 Bant Knightfall decks where pyromancers were OP, giving me free blocks while I was either clearing the board and/or cantriping away and eventually my reach and flyers got through. I destroyed one esper control deck, admittedly in the first game he had natural mana problems, and in the 2nd because of Blood Moon.
The last couple of matches was against burn, which I'm delighted to say I the 3 helices and the counters help alot and one GW hatebears deck which couldn't keep up with my removal.
Before the event I playetested with a friend of mine who also plays Esper Control, a much better build than the one I won in the even, and we ended like 4-1 in my favor preboard, and the 1 win he took it because he found the 1 path he needed to deal with my hazoret and then ran away with the game by playing 3 gideons and gaining cards with search for azcanta. I'm dubious on the jeskai tempo/control deck that's been showing up in SCG and GP events, but if previous experience is any indication we should be favored against them as well.
Congrats on the 5-0!! I have had a lot of good results in a row too. I think the deck is just super well positioned right now. I agree about E Tron as well. In theory it should be a tough matchup, but my results so otherwise. It always seems like Remand just stops their huge threat and I kill them before they can get to the top end. Like you said, a chalice can spell an early ending, but other than that I have had great luck against them.
That's so crazy that you say that you want a 3rd Spell Pierce. I just added a second copy into my main deck. It is just so good right now and fits in so well with Opt. I totally agree with you on that topic.
It's true that I have a special place in my heart for Bedlam Reveler. He is just so great in the top end of a more aggressive build. With that said, Chart a Course may give that necessary card advantage to keep up with midrange decks. I did play a split of reveler/hazoret for a little while. Both were great in their own right. I really don't think Reveler is a better choice than Hazoret. They both are great finishers that offer what our deck needs at the top end- reach. Reveler through additional cards and Hazoret through hasty damage and through the discard damage. I will have to test Hazoret again. My main concern is just having too many cards in hand to attack or block with Hazoret. It's rare my hand is empty or at one card unless I know I am going to be casting a Bedlam Reveler.
Blood Moon has always interested me in the side board. I have a personal hatred for the card because I don't like the type of gameplay it causes so that's probably what has kept me from putting it in my sideboard. Do you just fetch island and plains early and cast it or do you side out a lot of the white cards? I typically need all three colors fairly early in the game so I have never thought of blood moon being a great option, but it obviously is working well for you. This is why I love the boards because you can learn so much from other members and try new things that just might make your deck better.
I wish there were more bant knightfall players around here. I literally have never played against that deck in an event or anything. It looks like a really fun matchup to play. Young P does sound great in that matchup and works well with Chart a Course because you can just attack with a 1/1 even if it might die to get the 2 additional cards. You have a supply of attackers for chart a course.
The matchup I have been grinding lately is UR Storm. That will be next weeks matchup discussion. Anybody else have E-tron analysis?
Firstly congrats on the 5-0!
I concur with Spell Pierce, I have been a bit more experimental by removing Saheeli Rai and Smuggler's Copter for Spell Pierce and it has been very encouraging. My turn 1 Delvers and ending turn 2 with 2 lands untapped provides pressure on my opponent. if i resolve Young Pyromancer with a 3rd land, the game is almost in the bag.
I might end up cutting Vapor Snags (down to a copy or 2) for Smuggler's Copter. I find my deck a bit light weight on threats and leaning too much on the burn spells to finish / close out games. The elemental tokens, great as chump blockers could pull double duty (with YP) to crew Smuggler's Copter. Why i keep going back to Smuggler's Copter is because Serum Visions, Opt and if I run Chart a Course, those interactions with Copter are massive.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
I also think you are correct about Spell Queller. I have been playing one copy of the card in the main deck and will likely add another to the sideboard. The card is just really well positioned right now. Every time I play spell queller I tell my brother not to let me remove it from the deck the next time I start tinkering, but my brewing sickness always takes over :).
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
Preboard- How the jeskai aggro/tempo deck fairs against storm is very much dependent on the specific build of jeskai aggro/tempo. Theoretically we have a very good matchup against storm. A clock backed by disruption is great against storm. With that said, the new style storm deck is very resilient and can go in the long game. In addition, Empty the Warrens in the mid game can be tough for us to deal with.
Spell Pierce is extremely valuable in this matchup as they play 17-18 lands and spell pierce is often a straight counter spell. Gifts Ungiven is a 4 CMC spell so pierce often can be utilized in the mid game as well. It's much easier for the storm player to "go off" with a Baral, Chief of Compliance and/or Goblin Electromancer on the board. However, it is very tough to get one to stick against a deck with path, bolt, helix, and vapor snag. If your jeskai tempo/prowess deck depends more on midrange aspects to win the matchup is tougher, but can still be won. If we can land an early threat I think we are favored to win against most storm hands. Their god hands will likely beat us regardless of what we have, but overall I think we are one of the better equipped decks to deal with storm especially in game one. Even though we are one of the best equipped decks to fight storm I would still say the matchup is 60/40 at best and is likely 50/50 in game one. That's why storm is growing so quickly. The counter magic in modern simply has a hard time matching up with the speed and power of spells and threats.
Sideboard
In- Surgical Extraction, Negate, Dispel, Shadow of Doubt, Rest in Peace, Relic of Progenitus ,Counterflux, Engineered Explosives, Echoing Truth.
Out- Path to Exile, Remand, Top end threat- Bedlam Reveler, Distortion Strike, Emerge Unscathed, etc
Post board strategy- Like I said above, we want to become a aggro/control or tempo style deck against them. Playing against storm can be very hard and getting reps against a good storm player is super valuable. The mistake a lot of people make is waiting to long to counter a spell in hopes to get the payoff spell. While that is normally the correct way to go about it, it is often not correct against storm because their payoff spells are storm spells and you only counter the first copy {unless you play counterflux). We basically want to start clocking them early and keep laying down speed bumps for them. Some great Surgical extraction targets are Manamorphose and the rituals. It's also great to Shadow of Doubt their Gifts Ungiven and then extract all copies. I don't normally extract the creatures because we have so many answers for small creatures.
I feel fairly comfortable against UR Storm, especially postboard. Just another reason why jeskai delver/tempo is well positioned in the current modern meta.
Vapor Snag is life loss, it may matter (I've killed a couple people under their worship)
Haven't been able to play a lot this week due to midterms and a strike tomorrow >.< , last time I played I went 2-3 because of minor mistakes against esper control and afterwards bad running. I was considering adding the 3rd spell pierce in the main and maaaaaybe putting a couple of spell snares in the SB. They'll help against control, burn and storm. I'll Probably try them out this Saturday, so I'll keep you posted.
My matchup was definitely better when I had Swiftspears instead of Pyromancers, owing to more potential burst damage vs consistent DPT and/or value. Post SB I'm on the same plan as the Bros with 2 Surgical, 1 Rest in Peace, 1 Clique, 1 Mindcensor and from Saturday onward the snares. I also bring in anger and staticaster to fight off their Empty the Warrens plan. I mostly side out the protection package(Stance and Emerge), the lone snag, one or 2 Hazorets, electrolyze and might cut 1 snapcaster because of RiP. In general it's a match-up that lines pretty well with our gameplan, BUT be aware that most lists play Blood Moon, so be careful with your fetching since we have a greedy mana base.
Jeskai. Builder: Alban Coutrot. — MTG
2nd in Manafull Series : Modern [30 Players] — 22-Oct-2017 SUGGEST ARCHETYPE
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Mantis Rider
4 Monastery Swiftspear
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Boros Charm
2 Dispel
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
3 Remand
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
4 Serum Visions
2 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Deflecting Palm
2 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Izzet Staticaster
3 Path to Exile
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Stony Silence
1 Wear/Tear