You know, after a lot of deliberation, I'm thinking of splashing W in UR Delver just for the protection Boros Charm affords (and Path, obviously). Any other must-have cards?
You know, after a lot of deliberation, I'm thinking of splashing W in UR Delver just for the protection Boros Charm affords (and Path, obviously). Any other must-have cards?
I have found that the cost of adding a third color is less than the added benefit of having white in the deck. I highly recommend trying it. The only down side is that there are so many options that it seems like the tinkering and brewing never ends
Did anybody test out Failure // Comply? I tried it as a one of and worked out quite well for tempo. It's not a counter spell so hits cavern of souls' protected drops and things like abrupt decay. The Comply bit then fuels young pyromancer or swiftspears our turn while buying more time. Loved it in the more aggro builds.
Cool card but i use stuff like Vapor Snag and Path to Exile / Remand as tempo plays. Its a good split card nonetheless.
smooth draws, this deck reminds me of my old Gitaxian Probe build but instant speed Opt is so good. Young Pyromancer in this deck is gas.
Edit: I swapped out the Inspiring Vantage for a Sacred Foundry. Stress tests revealed white mana during the early turns is important in this deck because of 4 Lightning Helix and 4 PoEs.
Love the list NMDPS.
I have said this before, but I really think Young Pyromancer is going to make a huge comeback in modern. I think it's the single card that was affect most positively by the Opt reprint. I have never really warmed to playing Young P in my deck, but I have begun testing it in another jeskai prowess deck because it is so good with Opt.
I have said this before, but I really think Young Pyromancer is going to make a huge comeback in modern. I think it's the single card that was affect most positively by the Opt reprint. I have never really warmed to playing Young P in my deck, but I have begun testing it in another jeskai prowess deck because it is so good with Opt.
Cheers.
a Jeskai Delver list by Nolan Aguirre made 11th place in SCG Modern Classic Dallas over the weekend.
no Opt in the list but lots of counter magic! full set of Spell Pierce, Remand and 3 Mana Leaks!
As NMDPS said, we have our first jeskai delver high finish in a large event since the opt reprint. Unfortunetly he didn't play opt in his list. It's still a great finish for Jeskai Delver non the less. Here is the list.
Jeski Delver
Nolan Aguirre
11th Place at StarCityGames.com Classic on 10/1/2017
Modern
I have said this before, but I really think Young Pyromancer is going to make a huge comeback in modern. I think it's the single card that was affect most positively by the Opt reprint. I have never really warmed to playing Young P in my deck, but I have begun testing it in another jeskai prowess deck because it is so good with Opt.
Cheers.
a Jeskai Delver list by Nolan Aguirre made 11th place in SCG Modern Classic Dallas over the weekend.
no Opt in the list but lots of counter magic! full set of Spell Pierce, Remand and 3 Mana Leaks!
I just saw your messsage. For some reason it hadn't come up when I posted even though it was two hours before I posted. I love to see jeskai delver doing well!
So I am reporting after 2 events, one with Opt legal and one without.
First things first, the one without Opt. I had my usual (more aggressive than most) list that I've posted before, where I went 4-1 and finished 1st. There the easy matchups like Tron and Spirits and the hard ones such as Grixis DS and Abzan. The first 2 were races, the rest grindfests.
With Abzan the protect the delver/geist and win with Hazoret won me g2 and g3 was won by Blood Moon locking him out.
Grixis DS is probably one of the hardest matchups, along with Abzan and in the first match, Hazoret and burn won me the game (Topdeck Boros Charm ftw! In the 2nd one he managed to snatch most of my threats away, but he was always in danger of getting burned out, alas I lost the match 2-1 in 3 close games.
Now, after Opt was legal. I went with the following list:
Went 2-2, lost to the typical Abzan grindfest where he top decks lingering souls/ rhinos and you just go land into land when he's at 3-4 life. Also lost to burn which even with my revised list still feels like a coin toss... Won against infect and Etron.
Overall, I wasn't terribly disappointed by the results (maybe a bit salty after the abzan match up ), but I have to say tha I missed terribly the 2nd Hazoret in the main and I'm still a bit unconvinced with the counter suite. Maybe it was a bad day for them, so time will tell. Also, I still haven't found a good sideboard plan for the grindy decks like abzan and GDS, I didn't get a chance to play Mentor this Saturday. Lastly, I miiiight need the 19th land now, so I can more reliably get my 3rd land drop.
So I am reporting after 2 events, one with Opt legal and one without.
First things first, the one without Opt. I had my usual (more aggressive than most) list that I've posted before, where I went 4-1 and finished 1st. There the easy matchups like Tron and Spirits and the hard ones such as Grixis DS and Abzan. The first 2 were races, the rest grindfests.
With Abzan the protect the delver/geist and win with Hazoret won me g2 and g3 was won by Blood Moon locking him out.
Grixis DS is probably one of the hardest matchups, along with Abzan and in the first match, Hazoret and burn won me the game (Topdeck Boros Charm ftw! In the 2nd one he managed to snatch most of my threats away, but he was always in danger of getting burned out, alas I lost the match 2-1 in 3 close games.
Now, after Opt was legal. I went with the following list:
Went 2-2, lost to the typical Abzan grindfest where he top decks lingering souls/ rhinos and you just go land into land when he's at 3-4 life. Also lost to burn which even with my revised list still feels like a coin toss... Won against infect and Etron.
Overall, I wasn't terribly disappointed by the results (maybe a bit salty after the abzan match up ), but I have to say tha I missed terribly the 2nd Hazoret in the main and I'm still a bit unconvinced with the counter suite. Maybe it was a bad day for them, so time will tell. Also, I still haven't found a good sideboard plan for the grindy decks like abzan and GDS, I didn't get a chance to play Mentor this Saturday. Lastly, I miiiight need the 19th land now, so I can more reliably get my 3rd land drop.
As always, suggestions and criticisms welcome!
PS Foil pyromancers are in the mail
Great notes Mr. Tzoulis. I play a very similar list to yours. I run Bedlam Reveler in the slots where you run Hazoret, the Fervent. They basically fill a very similar role- a top end threat that can end the game quickly and give us a bit of card advantage/reach. Other than that, our decks are nearly identical. I used to run a split of Hazoret/Reveler.
First off, I would definitely recommend adding the 19th land. I actually just literally added a 19th land and play the deck at 61 cards. Some people are not fond of running 61 cards, but I actually prefer it.
As for the abzan matchup I typically side in Negate, Celestial Purge, and Saheeli Rai. The all-star of this matchup is Bedlam Reveler for me. They really struggle to beat the card advantage he offers and he can't be taken out of my hand with Inquisition of Kozilek and can't be killed with Fatal Push. I kept thinking of what to add to my sideboard for abzan, but had been performing rather well against them recently. I noticed it was basically due to bedlam reveler and burn. Remand is also a great card in game one in this matchup. Since I haven't played young p or mentor in the sideboard or mainboard, other members will have more experience as to how they peform in this matchup. However, I assume they work rather well agaist abzan.
The death shadow matchup is a different beast all together. I feel like DS is extremely winnable if you play the more aggressive version (which you do), however, it is never going to be an easy win. Deflecting Palm is an absolute house against them post sideboard. I typically also sideboard in Dispel, Negate, Celestial Purge, and sometimes Engineered Expolsives. It basically turns into a tempo fest.
I too have always been tinkering with the counter magic suite. Counter magic is a must in this deck in my opinion in order to be successful against a wide range of decks. We play very similar counter spells. I have never loved Mana Leak or Spell Snare although I am warming up to snare a bit. Remand is my favorite "counter magic" spell for my personal deck. It always seems to be very good when I cast it and I love that it can be utilized in strange ways like remanding our own spell to draw a card and trigger prowess or to counter a counter spell. Spell Pierce is my other counter spell of choice personally. The only problem with spell pierce is that it is either great or terrible. It is not a great late game draw. It's basically the best choice we have for early counter magic along with spell snare. I have been thinking about running one pierce and one snare lately.
I too have been thinking about running Monastery Mentor or Young Pyromancer in my sideboard with the addition of opt. I may end up just putting together another deck to play on top of my prowess deck. However, every time I think of doing this I end up just wanting to play my old trusty deck.
I would say the best thing you could add to your board that helps with both DS and Abzan is Celestial Purge and Negate. They are versatile cards that work well against a variety of decks.
So I am reporting after 2 events, one with Opt legal and one without.
First things first, the one without Opt. I had my usual (more aggressive than most) list that I've posted before, where I went 4-1 and finished 1st. There the easy matchups like Tron and Spirits and the hard ones such as Grixis DS and Abzan. The first 2 were races, the rest grindfests.
With Abzan the protect the delver/geist and win with Hazoret won me g2 and g3 was won by Blood Moon locking him out.
Grixis DS is probably one of the hardest matchups, along with Abzan and in the first match, Hazoret and burn won me the game (Topdeck Boros Charm ftw! In the 2nd one he managed to snatch most of my threats away, but he was always in danger of getting burned out, alas I lost the match 2-1 in 3 close games.
Now, after Opt was legal. I went with the following list:
Went 2-2, lost to the typical Abzan grindfest where he top decks lingering souls/ rhinos and you just go land into land when he's at 3-4 life. Also lost to burn which even with my revised list still feels like a coin toss... Won against infect and Etron.
Overall, I wasn't terribly disappointed by the results (maybe a bit salty after the abzan match up ), but I have to say tha I missed terribly the 2nd Hazoret in the main and I'm still a bit unconvinced with the counter suite. Maybe it was a bad day for them, so time will tell. Also, I still haven't found a good sideboard plan for the grindy decks like abzan and GDS, I didn't get a chance to play Mentor this Saturday. Lastly, I miiiight need the 19th land now, so I can more reliably get my 3rd land drop.
As always, suggestions and criticisms welcome!
PS Foil pyromancers are in the mail
Nice playtest results man!
One of the lessons I learned from playing Jeskai Delver is the deck has the DPS but not enough cycling / cantrips especially since G.Probe got banned. That is one of the reasons why I went Smuggler's Copter and a lone copy of Saheeli to get some cycling / top deck action in. Now with Opt, I can keep cycling my deck to find finishers and answers. I find myself using Serum Visions and Opt to load up my hand instead of using those spells in my hand, this method is great for surprising the opponent thinking you are running out of gas (well it also combats IoK and Thoughtsieze zzzz).
Saheeli + Opt / Serum Visions is especially a great soft combo. You scry with Saheeli and draw it with Opt or Serum Visions. If Young Pyromancer is around, you will get an Elemental to protect her. The mid game engine is particularly potent. Vapor Snagging my in play Young Pyromancer to protect my combo is something I done before. Opt has interesting lines of play and I am still learning how and when to use it.
Keep on testing! I do not get much chance to test against tier 1-2 decks so your results are inportant to the community! =)
The goal is to be aggressive. Build tempo and close the game with a flurry of burn spells. 17 lands maybe too low but with 8 cantrips and 4 Remands should help us find answers. Any advice?
The goal is to be aggressive. Build tempo and close the game with a flurry of burn spells. 17 lands maybe too low but with 8 cantrips and 4 Remands should help us find answers. Any advice?
a good start for a deck.
from my experience, 17 is too low for me. hitting the 3rd land / 3rd colour might be an issue. no harm swapping an Opt for an Island.
The goal is to be aggressive. Build tempo and close the game with a flurry of burn spells. 17 lands maybe too low but with 8 cantrips and 4 Remands should help us find answers. Any advice?
a good start for a deck.
from my experience, 17 is too low for me. hitting the 3rd land / 3rd colour might be an issue. no harm swapping an Opt for an Island.
I agree. I read a Ross Merriam article the other day and he mentioned that one thing "good players" do often to lists is to add an additional land. This is likely due to the fact that in a 10-15 round event mana flood/mana screw is much more likely on multiple occasions, whereas in a four round FNM event or online league it doesn't matter as much because you can just spike an event and get away with it for a couple of rounds.
I myself keep going back and forth between 18 and 19 lands. I think with the introduction of Opt into the deck I can saftely play 18 lands with my average CMC. I have been playing 19 lands, but have found a few games lately where mana flood has been a problem. I think the more I get used to playing the deck with opt in it I will eventually cut the 19th land and give 18 a try.
I would like to start a new weekly/bi-weekly topic in which we talk about a specific matchup for the week and possibly add play notes as a group. We can go over the pre-board games, cards that are great in the sideboard for the matchup, and also tips that you guys have for the specific matchup. This will help us all get better with the deck and learn from each other. The first week we will start with an easy one which happens to be the most played deck in modern still- Affinity.
Pre-Board gameplay- I think this one is actually about 45/55 pre board. We have one of the best pre-board matchups against affinity in all modern because we have access to a great number of early removal spells. It really comes down to two card- Inkmoth Nexus and Etched Champion. That can be said about the entire matchup, but it's especially important in game one. The strategy I prefer to implement is to land an early threat and then make sure that I always have two mana open for counter magic and removal. That's a perfect world situation. In addition, this basically becomes a straight race at some point. If they land a champion I just go straight to their face to finish them before they can finish me.
Sideboard cards for the matchup- We have a bunch of great options for affinity that also work well against other decks. Stony Silence is great here. I also have Shattering Spree which also helps greatly against lantern and the Chalice of the Void decks. Wear // Tear is a another must have in our board for a variety of matchups. Deflecting Palm is a sneaky great card in this matchup. They often attack with a large threat with a cranial plating, or a bunch of Arcbound Ravager +1/+1 counters on said threat. I think d palm is the single best card to deal with a stupid etched champion.
Cards to side out- Remand is the first card I normally cut, especially since I side in negate, ceremonious rejection, and spell pierce/snare. Emerge Unscathed comes out as well since affinity is a brown deck. I typically side out one of high end threats like Geist or Bedlam Reveler to make the deck function on less mana. If anything else needs to come out I typically cut a Serum Visions Here is my typical sideboard plan for affinity as of today. The last few cards to cut are always the hardest. I often cut Boros Charm when I bring in Deflecting Palm. If I am questioning the final cut I typically just cut one cantrip. Lately I have been cutting a Vapor Snag because their threats are typically only 1-2 mana and I have sided in so much additional removal.
Post board I think the matchup is a great one. Possibly 70/30 as long as they don't draw a nut draw on the play.
Let me know how you guys/gals see the affinity matchup and how you play againt it. Also let me know what I got wrong and how you would side for the matchup. I always like constructive criticism. Next week we will look at modern's #2 deck according to MTGDecks.net- Eldrazi Tron.
The match up against Affinity for us is better now then before with Opt as we can keep our board defenses up with Young Pyromancer (blockers for ground pounders). Cards to watch out for in this match up in R1,
1) Galvanic Blast its a finisher so keep your health up with Lightning Helix and try not to over shockland yourself. resource management is very important here.
2) Vault Skirge kill/counter when Cranium Plating slips pass your defences
3) Arcbound Ravager it would be tremendously awesome if you can engineer a blowout with Path to Exile or Vapor Snag but i think its a fringe opportunity
4) Steel Overseer this has to be countered.
5) Master of Etherium counter or PoE, most of the time it lands as a 4/4. watch out for man-lands because you can blow yourself out if Master of Etherium comes into play as a 3/3, you try to bolt it and man-land (Inkmoth Nexus / Blinkmoth Nexus)activation makes it a 4/4.
I love all the activity on the new topic. I have read it all and I think with all of our experience put together we can really go very deep into all of the matchups. Really great stuff guys/gals.
i have scheduled a playtest session with a friend of mine next weekend. he has jund and abzan mainly. i can get him to build other decks like zoo / burn too. will take notes and thoughts about those match ups. i might be able to convince him to build a proper w/u control deck.
the playtest will be a grueling one because he is a better player than me (he is a lvl 1 judge that can be lvl 2) but he doesn't have goyf fwik but we can make do with assessments.
Cutting Vapor Snag for a Deflecting Palm seems like a really bad idea...
btw there's a thread in Developing Modern for UWR delver... most the lists there are really similiar or the same...
Thanks Black_Dog. You may be right. I was finding that I had too much removal against affinity and often bouncing a threat other than blinkmoth didn't do a ton as most of their threats are fairly easy to recast so vapor snag was the odd man out. I don't always do that, but with so many sideboard cards that kill artifacts I found I had plenty of removal.
I Actually run that forum topic as well. We have tried to get these two forums merged and the Mods said they were going to merge them, but never did. Far fewer people post there since the "Delver" archetype is not what a lot of players play here. I will continue to try to get them merged.
Another topic I have been wanting to discuss it Chart a Course. A lot of the other delver decks have been giving rave reviews on this card. I will be testing is shortly. The jeskai variant of delver/prowess is more instant speed based than temur and grixis so a 2 mana sorcery may not fit as well for us, but with everyone saying it has been extremely good, I feel I at least have to test it.
On another note, I cleaned up my deck a bit and will post the list shortly. I am playtesting today and will add some notes. Let me know what you think about Chart a Course and have a great weekend!
Another topic I have been wanting to discuss it Chart a Course. A lot of the other delver decks have been giving rave reviews on this card. I will be testing is shortly. The jeskai variant of delver/prowess is more instant speed based than temur and grixis so a 2 mana sorcery may not fit as well for us, but with everyone saying it has been extremely good, I feel I at least have to test it.
On another note, I cleaned up my deck a bit and will post the list shortly. I am playtesting today and will add some notes. Let me know what you think about Chart a Course and have a great weekend!
card seems bother-line OP. if i run 4 x Opt i would replace all copies of Serum Visions in my deck. add Smuggler's Copter for extra filtering. good stuff.
Another topic I have been wanting to discuss it Chart a Course. A lot of the other delver decks have been giving rave reviews on this card. I will be testing is shortly. The jeskai variant of delver/prowess is more instant speed based than temur and grixis so a 2 mana sorcery may not fit as well for us, but with everyone saying it has been extremely good, I feel I at least have to test it.
On another note, I cleaned up my deck a bit and will post the list shortly. I am playtesting today and will add some notes. Let me know what you think about Chart a Course and have a great weekend!
card seems bother-line OP. if i run 4 x Opt i would replace all copies of Serum Visions in my deck. add Smuggler's Copter for extra filtering. good stuff.
I played it last night as a 1-of against Abzan and it was nothing short of stellar in that matchup. Snapcaster-Chart a Course is an awesome feeling :). I will continue to test it with how well it did last night. You definitely have to play a very aggressive version or a version with a lot of early drops to really play the card. I will keep you all posted. Let me know if anyone else gives it a try.
I agree with you Mazeron. I don't think either Vapor Snag or Deflecting Palm is the "right choice", but have have found deflecting palm to be amazing against big threat decks and against aggro decks. I think the difference in opinion we have compared to Black Dog is deck lists. My list runs 4x Delver, 4x Swiftspear, and 3x Geist so there is nearly always an early threat or two. Therefore, using a deflecting palm on a creature that has 4-5 power can be beneficial. Whereas, Black Dog's deck is a more flash style deck that plays at instant speed and has a much more powerful top end with Thundermaw Hellkite and Elspeth Knight-Errant. Similar to GoyfTomcat's list. He will finish the game off more easily in the late game therefore Deflecting Palm is likely "to cute" for his list. Different strokes for different folks :).
As for the cuts for Chart a Course. I'm really not sure. I had a very hard time just fitting one into my list for testing. I played against Scapeshift last night and Chard a Course was just ok and I often didn't cast it because I wanted to hole up counter magic. It may be better off as a sideboard card for grindy matchups. I still don't have my verdict on the card yet. I don't think cutting one opt would hurt to give it a try.
It's funny that you said that you flood with 19 lands because I have been having the same problem. It may just be a mental thing, but every time I add the 19th land back in I feel like I start flooding more often. I think the addition to opt and my recent changes to my list get me back to a comfortable spot with 18 lands. The only cards in my maindeck that are 3 CMC are 3x Geist, 3x Snapcaster (technically 3 drop), and 2 Bedlam Reveler (often a 2-3 drop). I don't play any 4 CMC spells main. I think I will run 18 for the forseeable future.
I have seen By Force popping up in some lists so I think you may be onto something. I mainly have Shattering Spree in my board as [c]Chalice of the Void protection as well as a plus against affinity so I will likely stick with it.
Black Dog- Grinding hundreds of games! That is awesome! You the resident expert on the "flash" oriented version. I really like your split of counter magic. I have been thinking of giving Logic Knot a try. I also love Shadow of a doubt. I think it's amazing in your list. I added two to my sideboard lately. Very cool list.
I went to just one event this past week (this Saturday), but I can say it's going pretty well. I tweaked my list a bit (-1 unsubstantiate and -1 Monastery Swiftspear for the 2nd Hazoret and a 3rd Helix). My sideboard is an ever changing process so I won't post what I brought that day, suffice to say I didn't get to play with the changes because of variance.
I went 3-1, for a 2nd place only losing to some incredibly good draws from a Knightfall deck. I beat mono-black zombies,kinda new player, I lost to the Knightfall player and then went on to beat Grixis DS and dredge. Funny thing, he didn't expect the RiP from the SB and it completely wrecked him
My main problem I'm diagnosing is having something to keep up with the grindier match-ups such as Abzan and GDS. I've tried Dragonlord Ojutai, Mentors, Bedlam Revelers, even Pull from Eternity and I still wasn't satisfied with the results. I'm waiting for my 4 Young Pyromancers and I'll try it again, probably replacing the Swiftspears since they seem the most expendable. If they don't arrive this week I'll Chart a Course a try in the main deck and report my results.
On the overall discussion of SB cards, I've found affinity a relatively easy match up, since we've got TONS of main deck removal and post sideboard I'm bringing in Staticaster, Wear/Tear, Deflecting Palm and Anger. Imo Deflecting Palm should be at least a 2-off in every deck that can support it, especially one that compliments it's gameplan by burning out opponents. It usually is at minimum 5 damage for 2 mana and can pretty much oneshot opponents like affinity/infect/GDS and Goryo's (a friend of mine that's playing goryo's is sick and tired of Palm, he keeps losing to it, even in commander ). I definitely need a second artifact/enchantment destruction in my SB, so I'll try out by force -can you target the same artifact twice or more with it?
Lastly, for the protection needed in a young pyro and mentor deck, you need not to look too far other than Valorous Stance and Emerge Unscathed. I was running them in my previous lists -pre Opt printing- having a more aggressive list than most and MAN was it a blowout to fizzle their decay and then bypass their blockers. Plus it's 2 spells in one for either mentor or pyro.
Edit: On the land front I'm with the Bros here, at 19 lands I flood too much and at 18 I'm more prone to getting stuck with 2 lands for a bit, but 7-8 cantrips (and a couple of Chart a Course, the screw should be resolved quickly). You also need to be EXTRA careful about your keeps with 18 lands.
PS. Run Blood Moon, it's lead to some of the easiest wins ever.
2x Arid Mesa
1x Inspiring Vantage
1x Wandering Fumarole
2x Flooded Strand
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Seachrome Coast
2x Island
1x Mountain
2x Plains
2x Sacred Foundry
2x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
2x Spirebluff Canal
Burn (13):
2x Jeskai Charm
2x Boros Charm
1x Electrolyze
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
4x Path to Exile
Counterspells (5)
3x Remand
2x Spell Pierce
Filtering(4)
4x Serum Visions
Creature (12)
3x Geist of Saint Traft
2x Spell Queller
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Delver of Secrets
Chandra and Ellie(2)
1x Chandra,Torch of Defiance
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Chandra,Torch of Defiance
1x Timely Reinforcements
1x Spellskite
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Dispel
1x Spell Pierce
2x Stony Silence
2x Wear / Tear
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Deflecting Palm
a few lightning helixes too.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
I originally splashed white for Geist of Saint Traft. However, white gives us a ton of great mainboard cards, but more importantly it also gives us access to some great sideboard cards (Stony Silence, Blessed Alliance, Deflecting Palm, Aven Mindscensor, Wear // Tear, Timely Reinforcments, etc).
As for cards I prefer in the deck in white I prefer- Emerge Unscathed, Lightning Helix, Path to Exile mainly. For creatures you get Geist of Saint Traft, Spell Queller, Steppe Lynx, and some have played Thraben Inspector.
I have found that the cost of adding a third color is less than the added benefit of having white in the deck. I highly recommend trying it. The only down side is that there are so many options that it seems like the tinkering and brewing never ends
Love the list NMDPS.
I have said this before, but I really think Young Pyromancer is going to make a huge comeback in modern. I think it's the single card that was affect most positively by the Opt reprint. I have never really warmed to playing Young P in my deck, but I have begun testing it in another jeskai prowess deck because it is so good with Opt.
Cheers.
a Jeskai Delver list by Nolan Aguirre made 11th place in SCG Modern Classic Dallas over the weekend.
no Opt in the list but lots of counter magic! full set of Spell Pierce, Remand and 3 Mana Leaks!
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
Jeski Delver
Nolan Aguirre
11th Place at StarCityGames.com Classic on 10/1/2017
Modern
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Young Pyromancer
2 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
3 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
3 Mana Leak
4 Path to Exile
4 Remand
4 Spell Pierce
4 Serum Visions
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Izzet Staticaster
3 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Blessed Alliance
2 Counterflux
3 Anger of the Gods
I just saw your messsage. For some reason it hadn't come up when I posted even though it was two hours before I posted. I love to see jeskai delver doing well!
First things first, the one without Opt. I had my usual (more aggressive than most) list that I've posted before, where I went 4-1 and finished 1st. There the easy matchups like Tron and Spirits and the hard ones such as Grixis DS and Abzan. The first 2 were races, the rest grindfests.
With Abzan the protect the delver/geist and win with Hazoret won me g2 and g3 was won by Blood Moon locking him out.
Grixis DS is probably one of the hardest matchups, along with Abzan and in the first match, Hazoret and burn won me the game (Topdeck Boros Charm ftw! In the 2nd one he managed to snatch most of my threats away, but he was always in danger of getting burned out, alas I lost the match 2-1 in 3 close games.
Now, after Opt was legal. I went with the following list:
2x Boros Charm
1x Electrolyze
1x Emerge Unscathed
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Lightning Helix
4x Opt
3x Path to Exile
3x Remand
2x Spell Pierce
1x Unsubstantiate
1x Vapor Snag
Land (18)
4x Flooded Strand
1x Hallowed Fountain
2x Island
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
3x Scalding Tarn
1x Seachrome Coast
3x Spirebluff Canal
2x Steam Vents
4x Delver of Secrets
3x Geist of Saint Traft
1x Hazoret the Fervent
4x Monastery Swiftspear
3x Snapcaster Mage
Sorcery (3)
3x Serum Visions
1x Anger of the Gods
3x Blood Moon
2x Deflecting Palm
1x Izzet Staticaster
2x Monastery Mentor
1x Rest in Peace
1x Supreme Verdict
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Wear / Tear
Went 2-2, lost to the typical Abzan grindfest where he top decks lingering souls/ rhinos and you just go land into land when he's at 3-4 life. Also lost to burn which even with my revised list still feels like a coin toss... Won against infect and Etron.
Overall, I wasn't terribly disappointed by the results (maybe a bit salty after the abzan match up
As always, suggestions and criticisms welcome!
PS Foil pyromancers are in the mail
Great notes Mr. Tzoulis. I play a very similar list to yours. I run Bedlam Reveler in the slots where you run Hazoret, the Fervent. They basically fill a very similar role- a top end threat that can end the game quickly and give us a bit of card advantage/reach. Other than that, our decks are nearly identical. I used to run a split of Hazoret/Reveler.
First off, I would definitely recommend adding the 19th land. I actually just literally added a 19th land and play the deck at 61 cards. Some people are not fond of running 61 cards, but I actually prefer it.
As for the abzan matchup I typically side in Negate, Celestial Purge, and Saheeli Rai. The all-star of this matchup is Bedlam Reveler for me. They really struggle to beat the card advantage he offers and he can't be taken out of my hand with Inquisition of Kozilek and can't be killed with Fatal Push. I kept thinking of what to add to my sideboard for abzan, but had been performing rather well against them recently. I noticed it was basically due to bedlam reveler and burn. Remand is also a great card in game one in this matchup. Since I haven't played young p or mentor in the sideboard or mainboard, other members will have more experience as to how they peform in this matchup. However, I assume they work rather well agaist abzan.
The death shadow matchup is a different beast all together. I feel like DS is extremely winnable if you play the more aggressive version (which you do), however, it is never going to be an easy win. Deflecting Palm is an absolute house against them post sideboard. I typically also sideboard in Dispel, Negate, Celestial Purge, and sometimes Engineered Expolsives. It basically turns into a tempo fest.
I too have always been tinkering with the counter magic suite. Counter magic is a must in this deck in my opinion in order to be successful against a wide range of decks. We play very similar counter spells. I have never loved Mana Leak or Spell Snare although I am warming up to snare a bit. Remand is my favorite "counter magic" spell for my personal deck. It always seems to be very good when I cast it and I love that it can be utilized in strange ways like remanding our own spell to draw a card and trigger prowess or to counter a counter spell. Spell Pierce is my other counter spell of choice personally. The only problem with spell pierce is that it is either great or terrible. It is not a great late game draw. It's basically the best choice we have for early counter magic along with spell snare. I have been thinking about running one pierce and one snare lately.
I too have been thinking about running Monastery Mentor or Young Pyromancer in my sideboard with the addition of opt. I may end up just putting together another deck to play on top of my prowess deck. However, every time I think of doing this I end up just wanting to play my old trusty deck.
I would say the best thing you could add to your board that helps with both DS and Abzan is Celestial Purge and Negate. They are versatile cards that work well against a variety of decks.
Nice playtest results man!
One of the lessons I learned from playing Jeskai Delver is the deck has the DPS but not enough cycling / cantrips especially since G.Probe got banned. That is one of the reasons why I went Smuggler's Copter and a lone copy of Saheeli to get some cycling / top deck action in. Now with Opt, I can keep cycling my deck to find finishers and answers. I find myself using Serum Visions and Opt to load up my hand instead of using those spells in my hand, this method is great for surprising the opponent thinking you are running out of gas (well it also combats IoK and Thoughtsieze zzzz).
Saheeli + Opt / Serum Visions is especially a great soft combo. You scry with Saheeli and draw it with Opt or Serum Visions. If Young Pyromancer is around, you will get an Elemental to protect her. The mid game engine is particularly potent. Vapor Snagging my in play Young Pyromancer to protect my combo is something I done before. Opt has interesting lines of play and I am still learning how and when to use it.
Keep on testing! I do not get much chance to test against tier 1-2 decks so your results are inportant to the community! =)
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Island
1 Plains
3 Spirebluff Canal
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Young Pyromancer
2 Geist of Saint Traft
30 Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Serum Visions
4 Opt
4 Remand
3 Lightning Helix
3 Path to Exile
3 Mana Leak
2 Boros Charm
2 Spell Snare
1 Vapor Snag
The goal is to be aggressive. Build tempo and close the game with a flurry of burn spells. 17 lands maybe too low but with 8 cantrips and 4 Remands should help us find answers. Any advice?
a good start for a deck.
from my experience, 17 is too low for me. hitting the 3rd land / 3rd colour might be an issue. no harm swapping an Opt for an Island.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
I agree. I read a Ross Merriam article the other day and he mentioned that one thing "good players" do often to lists is to add an additional land. This is likely due to the fact that in a 10-15 round event mana flood/mana screw is much more likely on multiple occasions, whereas in a four round FNM event or online league it doesn't matter as much because you can just spike an event and get away with it for a couple of rounds.
I myself keep going back and forth between 18 and 19 lands. I think with the introduction of Opt into the deck I can saftely play 18 lands with my average CMC. I have been playing 19 lands, but have found a few games lately where mana flood has been a problem. I think the more I get used to playing the deck with opt in it I will eventually cut the 19th land and give 18 a try.
Pre-Board gameplay- I think this one is actually about 45/55 pre board. We have one of the best pre-board matchups against affinity in all modern because we have access to a great number of early removal spells. It really comes down to two card- Inkmoth Nexus and Etched Champion. That can be said about the entire matchup, but it's especially important in game one. The strategy I prefer to implement is to land an early threat and then make sure that I always have two mana open for counter magic and removal. That's a perfect world situation. In addition, this basically becomes a straight race at some point. If they land a champion I just go straight to their face to finish them before they can finish me.
Sideboard cards for the matchup- We have a bunch of great options for affinity that also work well against other decks. Stony Silence is great here. I also have Shattering Spree which also helps greatly against lantern and the Chalice of the Void decks. Wear // Tear is a another must have in our board for a variety of matchups. Deflecting Palm is a sneaky great card in this matchup. They often attack with a large threat with a cranial plating, or a bunch of Arcbound Ravager +1/+1 counters on said threat. I think d palm is the single best card to deal with a stupid etched champion.
Spell Pierce is great here as is Negate. Spell Snare is also really good against affinity because a majority of their "kill spells" are two drops with Cranial Plating, Seel Overseer and Arcbound Ravager. Ceremonious Rejection is also obviously very good. Echoing Truth is another sneaky good card here that helps us keep the tempo. Because Inkmoth Nexusis such a problem, I also side in Spreading Seas for this matchup. Other cards that work well include [e]Engineered Explosives[/c], Anger of Gods and other sweepers like Supreme Verdict, and Shatterstorm.
Cards to side out- Remand is the first card I normally cut, especially since I side in negate, ceremonious rejection, and spell pierce/snare. Emerge Unscathed comes out as well since affinity is a brown deck. I typically side out one of high end threats like Geist or Bedlam Reveler to make the deck function on less mana. If anything else needs to come out I typically cut a Serum Visions Here is my typical sideboard plan for affinity as of today. The last few cards to cut are always the hardest. I often cut Boros Charm when I bring in Deflecting Palm. If I am questioning the final cut I typically just cut one cantrip. Lately I have been cutting a Vapor Snag because their threats are typically only 1-2 mana and I have sided in so much additional removal.
In- Ceremonious Rejection, Negate, Wear // Tear, Shattering Spree, 2x Deflecting Palm, Engineered Explosives.
Out- 3x Remand, Serum Visions, Boros Charm, Geist of Saint Traft, Vapor Snag.
Post board I think the matchup is a great one. Possibly 70/30 as long as they don't draw a nut draw on the play.
Let me know how you guys/gals see the affinity matchup and how you play againt it. Also let me know what I got wrong and how you would side for the matchup. I always like constructive criticism. Next week we will look at modern's #2 deck according to MTGDecks.net- Eldrazi Tron.
1) Galvanic Blast its a finisher so keep your health up with Lightning Helix and try not to over shockland yourself. resource management is very important here.
2) Vault Skirge kill/counter when Cranium Plating slips pass your defences
3) Arcbound Ravager it would be tremendously awesome if you can engineer a blowout with Path to Exile or Vapor Snag but i think its a fringe opportunity
4) Steel Overseer this has to be countered.
5) Master of Etherium counter or PoE, most of the time it lands as a 4/4. watch out for man-lands because you can blow yourself out if Master of Etherium comes into play as a 3/3, you try to bolt it and man-land (Inkmoth Nexus / Blinkmoth Nexus)activation makes it a 4/4.
R2 - 3, watch out for stuff like Blood Moon, Dispatch and Rest in Peace. Wear//Tear is a key card for you in these rounds so play them wisely.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
the playtest will be a grueling one because he is a better player than me (he is a lvl 1 judge that can be lvl 2) but he doesn't have goyf fwik but we can make do with assessments.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
Thanks Black_Dog. You may be right. I was finding that I had too much removal against affinity and often bouncing a threat other than blinkmoth didn't do a ton as most of their threats are fairly easy to recast so vapor snag was the odd man out. I don't always do that, but with so many sideboard cards that kill artifacts I found I had plenty of removal.
I Actually run that forum topic as well. We have tried to get these two forums merged and the Mods said they were going to merge them, but never did. Far fewer people post there since the "Delver" archetype is not what a lot of players play here. I will continue to try to get them merged.
On another note, I cleaned up my deck a bit and will post the list shortly. I am playtesting today and will add some notes. Let me know what you think about Chart a Course and have a great weekend!
card seems bother-line OP.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
I played it last night as a 1-of against Abzan and it was nothing short of stellar in that matchup. Snapcaster-Chart a Course is an awesome feeling :). I will continue to test it with how well it did last night. You definitely have to play a very aggressive version or a version with a lot of early drops to really play the card. I will keep you all posted. Let me know if anyone else gives it a try.
As for the cuts for Chart a Course. I'm really not sure. I had a very hard time just fitting one into my list for testing. I played against Scapeshift last night and Chard a Course was just ok and I often didn't cast it because I wanted to hole up counter magic. It may be better off as a sideboard card for grindy matchups. I still don't have my verdict on the card yet. I don't think cutting one opt would hurt to give it a try.
It's funny that you said that you flood with 19 lands because I have been having the same problem. It may just be a mental thing, but every time I add the 19th land back in I feel like I start flooding more often. I think the addition to opt and my recent changes to my list get me back to a comfortable spot with 18 lands. The only cards in my maindeck that are 3 CMC are 3x Geist, 3x Snapcaster (technically 3 drop), and 2 Bedlam Reveler (often a 2-3 drop). I don't play any 4 CMC spells main. I think I will run 18 for the forseeable future.
I have seen By Force popping up in some lists so I think you may be onto something. I mainly have Shattering Spree in my board as [c]Chalice of the Void protection as well as a plus against affinity so I will likely stick with it.
Black Dog- Grinding hundreds of games! That is awesome! You the resident expert on the "flash" oriented version. I really like your split of counter magic. I have been thinking of giving Logic Knot a try. I also love Shadow of a doubt. I think it's amazing in your list. I added two to my sideboard lately. Very cool list.
I went 3-1, for a 2nd place only losing to some incredibly good draws from a Knightfall deck. I beat mono-black zombies,kinda new player, I lost to the Knightfall player and then went on to beat Grixis DS and dredge. Funny thing, he didn't expect the RiP from the SB and it completely wrecked him
My main problem I'm diagnosing is having something to keep up with the grindier match-ups such as Abzan and GDS. I've tried Dragonlord Ojutai, Mentors, Bedlam Revelers, even Pull from Eternity and I still wasn't satisfied with the results. I'm waiting for my 4 Young Pyromancers and I'll try it again, probably replacing the Swiftspears since they seem the most expendable. If they don't arrive this week I'll Chart a Course a try in the main deck and report my results.
On the overall discussion of SB cards, I've found affinity a relatively easy match up, since we've got TONS of main deck removal and post sideboard I'm bringing in Staticaster, Wear/Tear, Deflecting Palm and Anger. Imo Deflecting Palm should be at least a 2-off in every deck that can support it, especially one that compliments it's gameplan by burning out opponents. It usually is at minimum 5 damage for 2 mana and can pretty much oneshot opponents like affinity/infect/GDS and Goryo's (a friend of mine that's playing goryo's is sick and tired of Palm, he keeps losing to it, even in commander
Lastly, for the protection needed in a young pyro and mentor deck, you need not to look too far other than Valorous Stance and Emerge Unscathed. I was running them in my previous lists -pre Opt printing- having a more aggressive list than most and MAN was it a blowout to fizzle their decay and then bypass their blockers. Plus it's 2 spells in one for either mentor or pyro.
Edit: On the land front I'm with the Bros here, at 19 lands I flood too much and at 18 I'm more prone to getting stuck with 2 lands for a bit, but 7-8 cantrips (and a couple of Chart a Course, the screw should be resolved quickly). You also need to be EXTRA careful about your keeps with 18 lands.
PS. Run Blood Moon, it's lead to some of the easiest wins ever.
Link- http://www.starcitygames.com/article/35979_Stevens-VS-Merriam-Five-Color-Humans-VS-Jeskai-Delver.html