Round one: 2-0 vs Mono-red goblins
Not much to say about this one. The deck was good, but it seemed like a semi-casual pile. I was able to fairly easily remove/remand his plays and beat him down with Swiftspears and Bedlam Reveler.
Round two: 1-2 vs Grixis Death's Shadow
Having never played against the deck, I wasn't sure what to expect. The one win I had was mostly because he got mana-screwed and couldn't really play. I found my suite of bolts, helixes, and remands to be mostly useless here. Soul-Scar Mage made it a bit awkward for my opponent, though, since it could get a great exchange with Gurmag Angler. Still eventually lost to Death's Shadow and other un-Boltable minions.
Round three: 0-2 vs Abzan Midrange
Game one, I got out-valued hard by Lingering Souls and various discard effects. Game two, I drew almost all of my creatures and none of my good spells. Just an unfortunate draw overall.
Two things I take away from my matches tonight:
1) I'm starting to lose my love for Delver of Secrets. Every time I drew it, it felt really weak. I either drew and played it turn one only for it to never flip, or I drew it several turns in and found myself with a Fugitive Wizard in my hand. I'm thinking about dropping it in favor of filling out to playsets of Swiftspear, Soul-Scar Mage, and Geist.
2) Though I didn't mention it above, my sideboard felt horrible. I know it's just the luck of the draw, but I never drew any of the cards I sideboarded in. I think I'm gonna take out the Spell Pierces and double up on Mentor & Staticaster so I have a better chance to actually draw the cards I board in. I'm also thinking about removing specific hate cards like Stony Silence, but I'm less certain about that. I don't know if I like the idea of dedicating spots in my board to cards that are only useful against specific decks, but I can't deny how good those cards are in those matchups.
What do you guys think?
Hi ZXNFQT4. First off, thanks for sharing your games. I always say these are by far the most helpful posts.
After reading and looking at the list here are a few suggestions. I think StevomatUWR is right about creature count. I also was a bit to high on creature count and had to cut a soul-scar mage. I think 15 creatures is about the max in a delver deck and 14 would be preferable. I personally play 8 one drops (4 delver, 3 swiftspear, 1 soul scar mage), 2 geist, 3 snap, and 2 reveler. I don't think your creatures suite is to far off, I would just suggest cutting which ever creature(s) feel a bit redundant. I typically play two geists because they are hexproof and legendary, but three is fine if you want to see them every game. Also one reveler at the top end is an option as well.
I would also cut the Elspeth. I always found knight errant to be a bit "win-more". She does make an unflipped delver better later in the game, but she is a WW spell in a deck that is splashing white and she doesn't really give us the top end we really need in game 1. You could just move her to the sideboard for more grindy matchups. I keep Saheeli Rai and Chandra, Pyromaster or c]Gideon, Ally of Zendikar[/c] in my sideboard for the grindy matchups.
While I don't agree with cutting the Slip Through Space (it's a personal favorite of mine), I do think you have room to add a little more protection. I run one copy of Emerge Unscathed and a Spell Pierce in the main deck. You could possibly cut one copy of remand and one copy of lightning helix to afford more protection. I'm not a huge fan of multiple boros charms because they always seemed to get stuck in my hand when I ran multiples.
As for delver, he is simply the best one drop for a tempo deck. If you want to go a bit more aggro/burn you could definitely cut the delvers and go with more burn. I would suggest making some of the small changes first though. Sometimes Delver can just be a jerk and never flip and give us a hard time.
As for the sideboard, it really depends on your meta. I actually don't run any Blessed Alliance because we have so much main deck removal. What is your meta like? You are right that less specific hate is better in our deck. The only really specific hate I run is stony silence because it hits so many decks (tron, affinity, lantern control).
Now for the matchups you faced:
When I face death shadow I just try to become a control/tempo deck with a lot of burn. They go so low on life that the burn is typically enough to kill them . You are correct that remands are not good here. Side them out for more removal/negate/dispel/deflecting palm/spell pierce. While it's not a good matchup I would say it's 50/50 depending on sideboards.
Abzan midrange is likely our single hardest matchup. They just have so much value. Echoing Truth and Electrolyze are extremely good against the lingering souls tokens. I know not many players play echoing truth, but I think it's highly underrated. It's actually decent against GBx as well to bounce delve creatures or two goyfs, etc. The Slip Through Spaces are also really good against GBx because you can just go straight through their fatties. In addition, Bedlam Reveler is really good here. To beat them we have to be basically a straight tempo deck. We aren't going to out value them so we can't really play to the late game.
I feel the need to clarify that I am a massive noob. Therefore, a lot of your questions about the state of my local meta and the strategy for different matchups are beyond me right now. I'll give this list a go next week and see if Delver combined with some of cheaper protection performs better. See you guys next week!
I have been working with the Mods to get the two threads merged. That's why I changed the Primer to be geared more towards tempo and not just prowess based decks. They said they would merge them as soon as the primer was updated, but I emailed over two weeks ago and haven't heard back. They are pretty busy and I don't think there is anyone actually in charge of the deck sections since the main moderator left. I will write again today and see what the delay is.
I feel the need to clarify that I am a massive noob. Therefore, a lot of your questions about the state of my local meta and the strategy for different matchups are beyond me right now. I'll give this list a go next week and see if Delver combined with some of cheaper protection performs better. See you guys next week!
This is a very tough deck to learn and takes a ton of reps to become really proficient with the deck. You will keep getting better and better as you learn the lines of play and the matchups. We all took our lumps to start, but the deck really pays off once you have experience with it. If the deck isn't wining a ton or you feel like certain cards just don't seem that good, let us know and we can help you tweak the deck to your personal preference. Thanks for posting and welcome to the jeskai family
I do think Spell Pierce is a very solid option right now. Cheap interaction seems to be key versus DS and other decks as well, countering paths is nice but countering CoCos is extremely important right now, even against decks like Living End cheap interaction is so good and those are decks that are pretty comon right now.
Something that come to my mind was the question if Spell Snare has a justification to be played right now?
Are some of you playing it lately? If yes, I would love to hear hwo you are feeling about it.
It deals with some problematic cards on the spot but the akward moments when a copy is stuck in your hand the entire game isnt that satisfying.
I am a well known opponent of Spell Snare. I have jut never liked the card in general. I can remember multiple games where I lost and had one or two spell snares left in my hand. Although a lot of modern's best cards used to be 2 mana, the game has changed a lot. The top two decks (DS and Eldrazi) use mostly 1 drops and 5+ drops so it isn't so effective. I know most players either love it or hate it. Ryan Overturf has stated he wouldn't play his grixis delver deck without 4 copies of spell snare. I just don't think it's a very strong option right now. I too, think spell pierce is a better option at 1 cmc for counter magic, especially in the more aggressive/burn oriented jeskai versions of delver. I have countered many lilians, companies, karns, etc with spell pierce where snare would likely just loose the game.
Another point is that snare is often used to counter a 2 mana creature (goyf, eidolon, grim flayer, ravager, etc. However, in our deck we have ample ways to deal with creatures so our counter magic should really be geared towards non-creature spells. That's why mainboard negate works well in our deck as a one of. With pay, bolt, helix, vapor snag, and echoing truth we have tons of ways to bounce or remove a creature from the board so the versatility of being able to counter a two drop creature is somewhat diminished in our deck.
I got a few more games in with my deck and since the results are very good I'd like to share them.
2:0 vs GW Tron 2:0 vs Rhonas Zoo
1:2 vs Living End with Madcap SB 2:1 vs BW Pox 2:0 vs BR Control 2:0 vs Grixis Shadow 2:1 vs GB Elves
0:2 vs UW Hatebears 2:0 vs Titanshift 2:0 vs Abzan Company with Druid/Vizier 2:1 vs Abzan Company with Druid/Vizier (rematch)
First three matches were at FNM, the rest is from playtesting online and with friends.
For reference, this is my current deck (Sorry about using a pic again. I am too lazy to type up the list.)
I think the deck is almost perfect this way. It applies constant pressure like a burn deck but it has a much better late game.
During these games I found that it is very important to hit the 4th land drop at least on turn 5 so I highly recommend a mana base which can acomplish that. I won at least three games thanks to Boros Charm, Snap+Boros Charm or Deflecting Palm, Snap+Deflecting Palm.
I can also only agree with Spell Pierce being the best counter spell for this deck. People still ask me why I am running Spell Pierce mainboard... How can they not see how good it is? It stops all the Chords and Companies flying around. It saves Delver from Bolt or Push, it can stop early game stoppers like Blood Moon, Chalice, Planeswalkers and even greedy late game cards like Sphinx's Revelation. You just don't want to have two in hand so running "only" two copies seems to be the best choice.
The 3 Serum Visions paired with 1 Sleight of Hand may seem odd but I am kind of testing if I like the Sleight better when I draw it instead of another Visions. It digs deeper to search for lands or threats yet it doesn't help to flip Delver...
Regarding the other mainboard cards, I am mostly impressed by how much power the deck gained since I added 3 Boros Charms + 1 Jeskai Charm. Also Emerge Unscathed has been my MVP card in several games, making Geist unblockable for the win!
I am also very happy with my new SB choices. Worship and Verdict always shine--when I resolve them they win games. Besides them, Lavamancer has been very good for me in many matches (Zoo, Elves, Hatebears, Company).
Hopefully these notes are helpful in some way to any of you
Edit:
Played another FNM yesterday. These are the results: 2:0 vs BW Walkers (inexperienced player with a brew) 2:0 vs RW Allies (these two games seemed unwinnable for my opponent) 2:1 vs Rhonas Zoo (lucky with the right top deck for the win)
0:2 vs Jund
This last match was tough. We both were the only players with 9 points and my opponent is kind of an end boss in my store
He is a very experienced and clever player with an all foil Jund deck. First game I got him to 3 life with an unblockable Geist attack but I only had Clique and another Geist in hand. Next turn he would kill me with Goyf (and get out of burn range with Ooze) so I had to win that turn. I played Clique on myself to draw a new card for my 2nd Geist but it was a land. The helix was beneath it, so I lost by one card. The fact that I had 5 lands in play at that point shows how unlucky that game went. -_-
Second game unfortunately I had no chance. He had Collective Brutality from SB and played it with two modes, killing my Delver and discarding my Path. So I had no answer for his Goyf. I played Geist but he had Lilly and even drew a second one and it was over pretty quick. I had boarded out two Delvers but my opponent said I should have taken them all out since he runs so much removal and sweepers. Are you taking out all 4 Delvers against Jund?
I realized that all 3 counters in my SB (Dispel, Ceremonious Rejection, Disdainful Stroke) do nothing against Jund. My mainboard Snare and Pierce are good but I didn't draw them (well, they are only 3 out of 60 cards). Many of you are running Gideons for that match-up in the SB, right? Against which other decks are you using them?
I had boarded out two Delvers but my opponent said I should have taken them all out since he runs so much removal and sweepers. Are you taking out all 4 Delvers against Jund?
your opponent has an interesting opinion with regards to this.
if you remove all the delvers from your deck, what can you side in to even the odds? sure he runs lots of removal and sweepers (this is the core of Jund) -4 delvers means 4 less threats which also means 4 more removals in his hand/deck to deal with your other threats. this basically is the conundrum with the art of sideboarding.
you deck already runs a fair amount of protection in the forms of Boros Charm and Valorous Stance.
im thinking you "can" side out Delver for Smuggler's Copter and Vapor Snag. The only issue now is you have to leave protection up against Kolaghan's Command if you play Copter, but the Copter swing is able to close games for you quickly because all of Jund's damage comes from ground pounders.
Vapor Snag is Jund's number 1 enemy from our deck. It resets Ooze, buys time against Goyf and prevents the occasional Kalitas from pulling the game from your grasp. (this is why i run 3-4).
deflecting palm is also great against Jund as you can deflect the damage from a fat goyf and end the game with bolt snap bolt.
Acutally I do not really like delver in this match up as well.
If delver comes down early he can decide a game on its own, but drawn later it doesnt do anything against jund.
My plan after sideboaring versus grindy decks is putting in cardadvantage and creatures that can give me an edge over things like thought-Knot Seer and Tarmogoyf. The Ranger package in conjunction with the SSMs have done really well for me. Ancestral Visions is another card that shines in those matchups, I had several games where I drew it like turn 3+ and it resolves most of the time.
Geist is probably one of the better cards against jund in conjunction with boros charm, paths, vapor snag and cryptic command, as it can only be removed in through combat damage or a liliana.
In BGx match ups I am leaning more towards a controlling build and it has done pretty well for me lately. Cards like Huntmaster of the fells are still a pain to deal with, but thats the life of a jeskai delver player.
Edit:
A card I have been thinking about, with the meta becomming more and more filled with decks that want to opperate on the least amount of mana is Judge's Familiar. What are your thoughts on this one? It is an evasive creature with upside, but being 1/1 is not something to brag about.
Judge's Familiar is a great creature to crew Smuggler's Copter with.
I have not tried judges familiar, but is seems like a very reasonable one drop for the deck. It has a lot of text for a one drop. Evasion and an ability. It is likely extremely underrated. Let us know how that goes.
Goyftomcat- I agree with most of what Mazeron said. I am currently not running any walkers in the main deck and have tried to streamline the CMC cost to combat some of the death shadow and other linear decks. Because GBx decks haven't been doing really well lately I have sacrificed some power level at the top end for more deck manipulation and more card draw. I would suggest cutting one planeswalker and putting the sword in the sideboard for a bit more deck manipulation (sleight of hand).
I am also running a one of boros charm and one electrolyze. Another spell that has been great for me is Echoing Truth. It deals with tokens and also bounces a chalice of the void on 1 which has become more prevalent.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a decent aftermath UR or UW spell our of hour of devastation. I would also definitely take a reprint of opt, but now that they are going back to core sets I am almost 99% positive that they will reprint opt in the first new core set.
I would like to get one more counter spell in the main deck. I am giving spell queller a try to see if that helps with the more tempo oriented games. I have a split of serum visions/sleight of hand because sleight of hand has been great against eldrazi and some of the GBx decks when I do play them.
The burn-heavy build is very much my personal playstyle. I do agree however that 3 Boros Charm might be better suited for my Boros Midrange however, and the Swords are somewhat slow.
Your list looks definitely more streamlined now, although there are to many 4 drops for my taste, but that's preference. You are also running one more land than I am so your manabase is better suited for that for sure.
I didn't really find a slot for the judges familiars. SSM really helps in a variety of match ups and the rest of the creatures are set in stone for me, so I didn't test the bird.
But there is one thing that came to my mind while losing to jund once more. All of our/my threats just die to all of their removal, except for geist, at least in my deck. And I came across Cryptic Serpent once more. Is anyone of you guys playing the card right now?
A few weeks ago I wasn't to thrilled about the idea of including it in the deck, but with push being so dominant it could be worth a shot. Furthermore there have been several occasions where I got snapcaster flooded. Snapcaster is the strongest blue card in the whole format and I kind of hate myself for bringing this up, but could 3 snapcasters be enough?
This would open the slot for serpent and make it better as well, as we wouldn't exile as many Spells.
On the other hand, drawing the serpent when you need a snapcaster would be a bummer. Not playing a Playset of snapcaster just doesn't seem right for me.
If I really decide to include serpent in my deck, Logic knot will probably have to go, what are counters that could replace it? Is Negate main good right now, complementing 2 spell pierce?
And has anyone played the counterspell to counter a spell with cmc 4 or greater recently, Disdainful Stroke?
Against Bant Eldrazi I think I have gotten to a plan that can do really well. I used to board out all delvers, or geists, I don't quite know anymore but I went down on Threats to increase my interaction. Now I cut one delver and some number of remands and cryptic (doesn't play well with blood moon from the side) for different disruption elements, including blood moon.
1 last thing I wanted to point out is, how good geist is, if played correctly. Even in bad matchups like Bant Eldrazi this guy is a beast, in conjunction with Spells like vapor snag and path hitting for 4 over a couple of turns and burning the opponent out is o satisfying. I guess that's why I will never be able to play a midrange deck, as switching gears is something I really learned to love and that's exactly what this deck offers me.
I couldn't agree more about Geist Mazeron. He is extremely underrated and I think it may be due to how hard he is to play correctly. I have won too many games were only a Geist would have won the game. I can't tell you how many people I have beat that have showed me a hand full of removal. I love the look on people's faces when I steal a game with Geist and Slip Through Space.
I agree with you about the midrange idea as well. I have added my favorite planeswalker of all time back into my sideboard - Chandra Pyromaster. She slots in perfectly if we are already up with her first ability. Her first abilty works really well with Geist by removing their biggest attacker as well. If we are behind or have flooded, her second ability is great. I now have Saheeli and Chandra in my board for the GBx matchups. I have found Bedlam Reveler to be an absolute house against the GBx matchups.
As for Cryptic Serpent, if you aren't running Reveler I would definitely recommend trying cryptic serpent. It would definitely help the GBx matchup against goyfs. It's a perfect "top end" card that fits into the low CMC curve of our deck. I tried a cryptic command for awhile and it was great when I could play it, but I just don't like a UUU spell in the deck. I have an open slot right now where cryptic used to be but my deck is currently running only 14 creatures, so I will probably add the one of SSM back in for the GBx and Eldrazi matchups as well. Thanks for reminding me how awesome he is in those matchups.
As for counter magic, I liked a maindeck Negate when I ran it with two remands and a spell pierce. I really want to get another spell pierce in my main as well. We have so many ways to remove creatures already in the main deck that negate is often a great choice because we really don't need to counter creature spells very often.
I think once you go jeskai tempo it's really hard to go back to midrange because you can steal so many games going aggro and have such a good combo matchup. I am trying to get my sideboard to a place where I can side into a slightly more midrange/control style deck with Negate, Dispel, planeswalkers, etc, but I haven't found the perfect recipe yet. There isn't a lot of modern going on right now, but over the next couple of months there will be a ton of modern with the Invitational and several modern tournaments so it will be exciting to see how jeskai does. There have been a couple of jeskai flash decks doing well and we will see if anyone decides to go a bit more aggro.
Can you post your list so I can see what your are currently running. I have found the deck manipulation from serum visions and sleight of hand to be very important lately to avoid flooding and to find the correct card for the moment. The prowess creatures help these cards add a little power when they are played as well.
Here is a update on what I am currently running in my main deck as it changed a tad:
I think this is the kind of card that needs to be played before I can really give my opinion. The 2/2 body is not great, but this could be extremely good.
I think it's "OK". I wish that it had 3 power and/or haste to make it a more competent beater or that its ETB effect returned the spell to your hand instead of replacing your next draw. With that said if someone brews up a micracles deck using Entity that could be pretty sweet.
I think it's "OK". I wish that it had 3 power and/or haste to make it a more competent beater or that its ETB effect returned the spell to your hand instead of replacing your next draw. With that said if someone brews up a micracles deck using Entity that could be pretty sweet.
Sorry, I didn't see your post Dennis and posted the picture.
Shelldell- I totally agree. My first opinion was that there are so many things that could have been done to make this modern playable, but as the card is it may not make the cut. It could have had haste, it could have had flash, it could put the card in your hand, it even could have been 2/3 so one spell saves it from bolt.
If it put the card in your hand it would definitely be a modern playable card. I will definitely be testing this in the hopes that it plays better than it reads, but I'm not going to get my hopes up too much.
This is all from the point of view of a jeskai tempo player. I think it will be better in decks like Grixis where they have more powerful spells and are more graveyard based on average than the jeskai decks. We will see.
On another note, I am really interested in the new 1 drop white wizard lady that gives you 1 life for each blue, red, and/or black spell. It may be a decent sideboard option for burn or other aggressive decks for anyone that sides into a more controlling deck against aggro decks.
With regards to Bloodwater Entity, it doesn't have Flash or Haste. Which makes it a worst Snapcaster Mage and/or Mantis Rider / Stormchaser Mage.
However, it makes for a great budget Snapcaster Mage for people building into related variants.
Our 3 CC slots are already packed with some of the best cards in Modern... and I will rather pick Giest / Spell Queller / Vendellion Clique or even Enigma Drake over Bloodwater Entity.
@curdbros:
Here is what i am currently running, or testing.
As I said, not running the full Playset of snapcaster mages does hurt my UR soul, but with serpent I think it is necessary, as well as moving the lavamancer to the side, as I think they are both good in different match ups.
I would probably move the Negate from the side to the main which would open a slot in the the sideboard, this will be celestial purge most likely, but I do not know for sure yet.
I really liked the copters from a few weeks ago, but giving k-command even more targets didn't seem right and the spell count went down to 24 which didn't feel particularly nice. Spell pierce is a solid addition with all the cheap Spells and tight manabases.
The 4 Remand may seem a little overkill and I end up boarding out some number of them in basically any match up, but I just love the card!
All in all my deck is in a great spot right now, I enjoy basically every card in it and it is quite consistent. I hope the change with serpent didn't mess it up but it could be a very solid addition.
This Saturday there is a bigger modern tournament in the area and hopefully I can show them what jeskai delver is capable of doing!
I hope I can get there in time, if so I will let you guys know off how it went and write a little report.
Regarding the entity.
I have to agree with NMDPS, it is a poor man's snapcaster but it has some benefits as well. It makes delver flip on the next turn, you can loop cryptic commands or other spells with multiple of these entities, as well as getting extra value with the snapcaster later on.
Having said that, the competition on the 3 cmc slot is all ready pretty damn hard, with geist, queller and clique.
I'm in the same boat Mazeron. I am running 3 Snapcaster Mages as well. I have never actually run a full play-set in the prowess style build. Three has always felt correct in the more aggressive version of the deck, but it very well could be wrong.
Our lists are actually extremely similar and likely play out in a similar fashion. Basically where you have V.Clique and Serpent I have Bedlam Reveler and where I have Slip Through Space you have a bit more control/disruption with cryptic and negate. This makes the decks play slightly different and sideboard slightly differently, but I think the overall strategy/playstyle is very similar. I feel like the deck is really getting to a very good spot right now. I agree that the deck feels really consistent and very strong right now.
I hope you take down that event and I have a strong feeling you will do very well. The deck is very well positioned right now and you have been playing the deck for a long time. It just comes down to variance at that point.
I did get a chance to practice a few games last night with the new bloodfall entity last night. I have to say I was a bit impressed. I only drew it three times, but it did some major work. The 2/2 prowess with flying is actually very strong. He did some major work. One time he flipped a delver for me and also put a path on top for a death shadow. I will definitely keep trying him as a one of. I don't think he is going to be better than V.Clique, Serpent, Queller, Geist, but he could be a nice addition as a one of. I actually thought he may be a good sideboard option for grindy matchups, but I really don't like sideboarding creatures unless they really affect a given matchup or two.
Spellweaver's prowess body and CMC line up with Abbot of Keral Keep, except that Afflict is usually worse than flipping a card for a base 1 toughness creature IMO. I don't see any reason to play Spellweaver over Abbot, which is already a pretty niche card as it is.
Riddleform is interesting. Its default 3/3 flying body is a bit more aggressive than Myth, so while Myth is perhaps better suited to more controlling builds that want to sweep and then turn the corner with a powered up Myth, Riddleform might be better in a tempo deck that's continuously pushing damage. If you can reliably animate it it's got reasonably good stats for its rate, it dodges sorcery speed removal (mostly sweepers in Modern), and its nice that as an enchantment it triggers Prowess for the rest of your attacker when you cast it.
I think Riddleform's more relevant comparison for this deck might be to Smuggler's Copter -- both flying 3/3s for 2 mana that require some investment to animate, both trigger prowess. Riddleform doesn't get you 2-for-1'd by K Command and doesn't require another creature to tap, but Scooter's looting effect is deceptively powerful. In decks with less than ~14 pilots I get a little nervous running Copter, so I might be inclined to try Riddleform, but I know some of you have enjoyed good success with a couple copies of Copter.
I agree with you Shelldell. I actually think Riddleform is very playable and possibly very good in our deck. Theoretically it would shine in a more aggressive tempo style deck which is exactly what we are. I am definitely going to give it a try. I like that it also gives the deck another way to not flood out in the late game. Because it doesn't affect the board immediately it will not be a 4 of in our build, but I could see it being a 1 or 2 of in some lists or possibly a sideboard card.
I think it's actually a better version of Myth Realized for our deck because it is more aggressive than Myth Realized. I always like myth realized and thought it was underplayed, but then I played it and just felt a little underwhelmed when I played it. I hope this card doesn't fit into the same narrative, but I won't know until I try it. I went ahead and purchased a couple of foil copies just in case (I have a problem :)).
I really like spellweaver eternal two, however, I do agree it will fall into no-man's land with some of the other awesome 2 CMC prowess creatures. Abbot of Keral Keep is one of my favorite cards of all time (second to Geist) and I really really want to play the card in my deck, but there are just better options for my current deck. I will have to make a second UR prowess deck that is based around the prowess mechanic to utilize abbot, bloodwater eternal, stormchaser mage, etc so I can play with some of my favorite cards.
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Hi ZXNFQT4. First off, thanks for sharing your games. I always say these are by far the most helpful posts.
After reading and looking at the list here are a few suggestions. I think StevomatUWR is right about creature count. I also was a bit to high on creature count and had to cut a soul-scar mage. I think 15 creatures is about the max in a delver deck and 14 would be preferable. I personally play 8 one drops (4 delver, 3 swiftspear, 1 soul scar mage), 2 geist, 3 snap, and 2 reveler. I don't think your creatures suite is to far off, I would just suggest cutting which ever creature(s) feel a bit redundant. I typically play two geists because they are hexproof and legendary, but three is fine if you want to see them every game. Also one reveler at the top end is an option as well.
I would also cut the Elspeth. I always found knight errant to be a bit "win-more". She does make an unflipped delver better later in the game, but she is a WW spell in a deck that is splashing white and she doesn't really give us the top end we really need in game 1. You could just move her to the sideboard for more grindy matchups. I keep Saheeli Rai and Chandra, Pyromaster or c]Gideon, Ally of Zendikar[/c] in my sideboard for the grindy matchups.
While I don't agree with cutting the Slip Through Space (it's a personal favorite of mine), I do think you have room to add a little more protection. I run one copy of Emerge Unscathed and a Spell Pierce in the main deck. You could possibly cut one copy of remand and one copy of lightning helix to afford more protection. I'm not a huge fan of multiple boros charms because they always seemed to get stuck in my hand when I ran multiples.
As for delver, he is simply the best one drop for a tempo deck. If you want to go a bit more aggro/burn you could definitely cut the delvers and go with more burn. I would suggest making some of the small changes first though. Sometimes Delver can just be a jerk and never flip and give us a hard time.
As for the sideboard, it really depends on your meta. I actually don't run any Blessed Alliance because we have so much main deck removal. What is your meta like? You are right that less specific hate is better in our deck. The only really specific hate I run is stony silence because it hits so many decks (tron, affinity, lantern control).
Now for the matchups you faced:
When I face death shadow I just try to become a control/tempo deck with a lot of burn. They go so low on life that the burn is typically enough to kill them . You are correct that remands are not good here. Side them out for more removal/negate/dispel/deflecting palm/spell pierce. While it's not a good matchup I would say it's 50/50 depending on sideboards.
Abzan midrange is likely our single hardest matchup. They just have so much value. Echoing Truth and Electrolyze are extremely good against the lingering souls tokens. I know not many players play echoing truth, but I think it's highly underrated. It's actually decent against GBx as well to bounce delve creatures or two goyfs, etc. The Slip Through Spaces are also really good against GBx because you can just go straight through their fatties. In addition, Bedlam Reveler is really good here. To beat them we have to be basically a straight tempo deck. We aren't going to out value them so we can't really play to the late game.
Let us know what you change and how it goes.
2 Bedlam Reveler
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Geist of Saint Traft
Instant
1 Boros Charm
2 Emerge Unscathed
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
2 Remand
2 Spell Pierce
2 Vapor Snag
4 Serum Visions
2 Slip Through Space
Land
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Inspiring Vantage
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Seachrome Coast
4 Spirebluff Canal
2 Steam Vents
2 Izzet Staticaster
2 Monastery Mentor
2 Soul-Scar Mage
2 Spreading Seas
2 Stony Silence
2 Deflecting Palm
2 Wear / Tear
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
I feel the need to clarify that I am a massive noob. Therefore, a lot of your questions about the state of my local meta and the strategy for different matchups are beyond me right now. I'll give this list a go next week and see if Delver combined with some of cheaper protection performs better. See you guys next week!
thank you CurdBros!
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
https://youtu.be/RsIiGwgoNok
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
This is a very tough deck to learn and takes a ton of reps to become really proficient with the deck. You will keep getting better and better as you learn the lines of play and the matchups. We all took our lumps to start, but the deck really pays off once you have experience with it. If the deck isn't wining a ton or you feel like certain cards just don't seem that good, let us know and we can help you tweak the deck to your personal preference. Thanks for posting and welcome to the jeskai family
I am a well known opponent of Spell Snare. I have jut never liked the card in general. I can remember multiple games where I lost and had one or two spell snares left in my hand. Although a lot of modern's best cards used to be 2 mana, the game has changed a lot. The top two decks (DS and Eldrazi) use mostly 1 drops and 5+ drops so it isn't so effective. I know most players either love it or hate it. Ryan Overturf has stated he wouldn't play his grixis delver deck without 4 copies of spell snare. I just don't think it's a very strong option right now. I too, think spell pierce is a better option at 1 cmc for counter magic, especially in the more aggressive/burn oriented jeskai versions of delver. I have countered many lilians, companies, karns, etc with spell pierce where snare would likely just loose the game.
Another point is that snare is often used to counter a 2 mana creature (goyf, eidolon, grim flayer, ravager, etc. However, in our deck we have ample ways to deal with creatures so our counter magic should really be geared towards non-creature spells. That's why mainboard negate works well in our deck as a one of. With pay, bolt, helix, vapor snag, and echoing truth we have tons of ways to bounce or remove a creature from the board so the versatility of being able to counter a two drop creature is somewhat diminished in our deck.
I got a few more games in with my deck and since the results are very good I'd like to share them.
2:0 vs GW Tron
2:0 vs Rhonas Zoo
1:2 vs Living End with Madcap SB
2:1 vs BW Pox
2:0 vs BR Control
2:0 vs Grixis Shadow
2:1 vs GB Elves
0:2 vs UW Hatebears
2:0 vs Titanshift
2:0 vs Abzan Company with Druid/Vizier
2:1 vs Abzan Company with Druid/Vizier (rematch)
First three matches were at FNM, the rest is from playtesting online and with friends.
For reference, this is my current deck (Sorry about using a pic again. I am too lazy to type up the list.)
I think the deck is almost perfect this way. It applies constant pressure like a burn deck but it has a much better late game.
During these games I found that it is very important to hit the 4th land drop at least on turn 5 so I highly recommend a mana base which can acomplish that. I won at least three games thanks to Boros Charm, Snap+Boros Charm or Deflecting Palm, Snap+Deflecting Palm.
I can also only agree with Spell Pierce being the best counter spell for this deck. People still ask me why I am running Spell Pierce mainboard... How can they not see how good it is? It stops all the Chords and Companies flying around. It saves Delver from Bolt or Push, it can stop early game stoppers like Blood Moon, Chalice, Planeswalkers and even greedy late game cards like Sphinx's Revelation. You just don't want to have two in hand so running "only" two copies seems to be the best choice.
The 3 Serum Visions paired with 1 Sleight of Hand may seem odd but I am kind of testing if I like the Sleight better when I draw it instead of another Visions. It digs deeper to search for lands or threats yet it doesn't help to flip Delver...
Regarding the other mainboard cards, I am mostly impressed by how much power the deck gained since I added 3 Boros Charms + 1 Jeskai Charm. Also Emerge Unscathed has been my MVP card in several games, making Geist unblockable for the win!
I am also very happy with my new SB choices. Worship and Verdict always shine--when I resolve them they win games. Besides them, Lavamancer has been very good for me in many matches (Zoo, Elves, Hatebears, Company).
Hopefully these notes are helpful in some way to any of you
Edit:
Played another FNM yesterday. These are the results:
2:0 vs BW Walkers (inexperienced player with a brew)
2:0 vs RW Allies (these two games seemed unwinnable for my opponent)
2:1 vs Rhonas Zoo (lucky with the right top deck for the win)
0:2 vs Jund
This last match was tough. We both were the only players with 9 points and my opponent is kind of an end boss in my store
He is a very experienced and clever player with an all foil Jund deck. First game I got him to 3 life with an unblockable Geist attack but I only had Clique and another Geist in hand. Next turn he would kill me with Goyf (and get out of burn range with Ooze) so I had to win that turn. I played Clique on myself to draw a new card for my 2nd Geist but it was a land. The helix was beneath it, so I lost by one card. The fact that I had 5 lands in play at that point shows how unlucky that game went. -_-
Second game unfortunately I had no chance. He had Collective Brutality from SB and played it with two modes, killing my Delver and discarding my Path. So I had no answer for his Goyf. I played Geist but he had Lilly and even drew a second one and it was over pretty quick. I had boarded out two Delvers but my opponent said I should have taken them all out since he runs so much removal and sweepers. Are you taking out all 4 Delvers against Jund?
I realized that all 3 counters in my SB (Dispel, Ceremonious Rejection, Disdainful Stroke) do nothing against Jund. My mainboard Snare and Pierce are good but I didn't draw them (well, they are only 3 out of 60 cards). Many of you are running Gideons for that match-up in the SB, right? Against which other decks are you using them?
Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Soul-Scar Mage
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Geist of Saint Traft
Burn:
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
3 Boros Charm
2 Electrolyze
Top End:
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Cantrips/Filtering:
4 Serum Visions
Protection/Tempo:
4 Path to Exile
2 Emerge Unscathed
1 Distortion Strike
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Flooded Strand
2 Arid Mesa
1 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Spirebluff Canal
2 Inspiring Vantage
1 Wandering Fumarole
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Stony Silence
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Soulfire Grand Master
2 Dispel
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Wear // Tear
your opponent has an interesting opinion with regards to this.
if you remove all the delvers from your deck, what can you side in to even the odds? sure he runs lots of removal and sweepers (this is the core of Jund) -4 delvers means 4 less threats which also means 4 more removals in his hand/deck to deal with your other threats. this basically is the conundrum with the art of sideboarding.
you deck already runs a fair amount of protection in the forms of Boros Charm and Valorous Stance.
im thinking you "can" side out Delver for Smuggler's Copter and Vapor Snag. The only issue now is you have to leave protection up against Kolaghan's Command if you play Copter, but the Copter swing is able to close games for you quickly because all of Jund's damage comes from ground pounders.
Vapor Snag is Jund's number 1 enemy from our deck. It resets Ooze, buys time against Goyf and prevents the occasional Kalitas from pulling the game from your grasp. (this is why i run 3-4).
deflecting palm is also great against Jund as you can deflect the damage from a fat goyf and end the game with bolt snap bolt.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
Judge's Familiar is a great creature to crew Smuggler's Copter with.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
I have not tried judges familiar, but is seems like a very reasonable one drop for the deck. It has a lot of text for a one drop. Evasion and an ability. It is likely extremely underrated. Let us know how that goes.
Goyftomcat- I agree with most of what Mazeron said. I am currently not running any walkers in the main deck and have tried to streamline the CMC cost to combat some of the death shadow and other linear decks. Because GBx decks haven't been doing really well lately I have sacrificed some power level at the top end for more deck manipulation and more card draw. I would suggest cutting one planeswalker and putting the sword in the sideboard for a bit more deck manipulation (sleight of hand).
I am also running a one of boros charm and one electrolyze. Another spell that has been great for me is Echoing Truth. It deals with tokens and also bounces a chalice of the void on 1 which has become more prevalent.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a decent aftermath UR or UW spell our of hour of devastation. I would also definitely take a reprint of opt, but now that they are going back to core sets I am almost 99% positive that they will reprint opt in the first new core set.
3 Monastery Swiftspear
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Spell Queller
2 Bedlam Reveler
3 Lightning Helix
1 Boros Charm
1 Electrolyze
3 Path to Exile
2 Vapor Snag
1 Echoing Truth
3 Serum Visions
3 Sleight of Hand
2 Slip Through Space
2 Remand
1 Spell Pierce
I would like to get one more counter spell in the main deck. I am giving spell queller a try to see if that helps with the more tempo oriented games. I have a split of serum visions/sleight of hand because sleight of hand has been great against eldrazi and some of the GBx decks when I do play them.
Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Soul-Scar Mage
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Geist of Saint Traft
Burn:
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
2 Boros Charm
1 Jeskai Charm
1 Electrolyze
Top End:
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Cantrips/Filtering:
4 Serum Visions
Protection/Tempo:
4 Path to Exile
2 Emerge Unscathed
2 Distortion Strike
1 Echoing Truth
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Flooded Strand
2 Arid Mesa
1 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Spirebluff Canal
2 Inspiring Vantage
1 Wandering Fumarole
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Stony Silence
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Soulfire Grand Master
2 Dispel
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Echoing Truth
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Wear // Tear
I couldn't agree more about Geist Mazeron. He is extremely underrated and I think it may be due to how hard he is to play correctly. I have won too many games were only a Geist would have won the game. I can't tell you how many people I have beat that have showed me a hand full of removal. I love the look on people's faces when I steal a game with Geist and Slip Through Space.
I agree with you about the midrange idea as well. I have added my favorite planeswalker of all time back into my sideboard - Chandra Pyromaster. She slots in perfectly if we are already up with her first ability. Her first abilty works really well with Geist by removing their biggest attacker as well. If we are behind or have flooded, her second ability is great. I now have Saheeli and Chandra in my board for the GBx matchups. I have found Bedlam Reveler to be an absolute house against the GBx matchups.
As for Cryptic Serpent, if you aren't running Reveler I would definitely recommend trying cryptic serpent. It would definitely help the GBx matchup against goyfs. It's a perfect "top end" card that fits into the low CMC curve of our deck. I tried a cryptic command for awhile and it was great when I could play it, but I just don't like a UUU spell in the deck. I have an open slot right now where cryptic used to be but my deck is currently running only 14 creatures, so I will probably add the one of SSM back in for the GBx and Eldrazi matchups as well. Thanks for reminding me how awesome he is in those matchups.
As for counter magic, I liked a maindeck Negate when I ran it with two remands and a spell pierce. I really want to get another spell pierce in my main as well. We have so many ways to remove creatures already in the main deck that negate is often a great choice because we really don't need to counter creature spells very often.
I think once you go jeskai tempo it's really hard to go back to midrange because you can steal so many games going aggro and have such a good combo matchup. I am trying to get my sideboard to a place where I can side into a slightly more midrange/control style deck with Negate, Dispel, planeswalkers, etc, but I haven't found the perfect recipe yet. There isn't a lot of modern going on right now, but over the next couple of months there will be a ton of modern with the Invitational and several modern tournaments so it will be exciting to see how jeskai does. There have been a couple of jeskai flash decks doing well and we will see if anyone decides to go a bit more aggro.
Can you post your list so I can see what your are currently running. I have found the deck manipulation from serum visions and sleight of hand to be very important lately to avoid flooding and to find the correct card for the moment. The prowess creatures help these cards add a little power when they are played as well.
Here is a update on what I am currently running in my main deck as it changed a tad:
3 Monastery Swiftspear
1 Soul Scar Mage
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Bedlam Reveler
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
1 Boros Charm
1 Electrolyze
3 Path to Exile
2 Vapor Snag
1 Echoing Truth
3 Serum Visions
3 Sleight of Hand
2 Slip Through Space
2 Remand
1 Spell Pierce
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
2 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Spirebluff Canal
1 Seachrome Coast
1 Inspiring Vantage
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Wear // Tear
2 Stony Silence
1 Deflecting Palm
1 Negate
1 Dispel
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Saheeli Rai
1 Shattering Spree
1 Celestial Purge
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Blessed Alliance
What do you guys/gals think?
I think this is the kind of card that needs to be played before I can really give my opinion. The 2/2 body is not great, but this could be extremely good.
Sorry, I didn't see your post Dennis and posted the picture.
Shelldell- I totally agree. My first opinion was that there are so many things that could have been done to make this modern playable, but as the card is it may not make the cut. It could have had haste, it could have had flash, it could put the card in your hand, it even could have been 2/3 so one spell saves it from bolt.
If it put the card in your hand it would definitely be a modern playable card. I will definitely be testing this in the hopes that it plays better than it reads, but I'm not going to get my hopes up too much.
This is all from the point of view of a jeskai tempo player. I think it will be better in decks like Grixis where they have more powerful spells and are more graveyard based on average than the jeskai decks. We will see.
On another note, I am really interested in the new 1 drop white wizard lady that gives you 1 life for each blue, red, and/or black spell. It may be a decent sideboard option for burn or other aggressive decks for anyone that sides into a more controlling deck against aggro decks.
However, it makes for a great budget Snapcaster Mage for people building into related variants.
Our 3 CC slots are already packed with some of the best cards in Modern... and I will rather pick Giest / Spell Queller / Vendellion Clique or even Enigma Drake over Bloodwater Entity.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
I'm in the same boat Mazeron. I am running 3 Snapcaster Mages as well. I have never actually run a full play-set in the prowess style build. Three has always felt correct in the more aggressive version of the deck, but it very well could be wrong.
Our lists are actually extremely similar and likely play out in a similar fashion. Basically where you have V.Clique and Serpent I have Bedlam Reveler and where I have Slip Through Space you have a bit more control/disruption with cryptic and negate. This makes the decks play slightly different and sideboard slightly differently, but I think the overall strategy/playstyle is very similar. I feel like the deck is really getting to a very good spot right now. I agree that the deck feels really consistent and very strong right now.
I hope you take down that event and I have a strong feeling you will do very well. The deck is very well positioned right now and you have been playing the deck for a long time. It just comes down to variance at that point.
I did get a chance to practice a few games last night with the new bloodfall entity last night. I have to say I was a bit impressed. I only drew it three times, but it did some major work. The 2/2 prowess with flying is actually very strong. He did some major work. One time he flipped a delver for me and also put a path on top for a death shadow. I will definitely keep trying him as a one of. I don't think he is going to be better than V.Clique, Serpent, Queller, Geist, but he could be a nice addition as a one of. I actually thought he may be a good sideboard option for grindy matchups, but I really don't like sideboarding creatures unless they really affect a given matchup or two.
Is Riddleform just a worse Myth Realized ?
It is like an easier to trigger Halcyon Glaze/Angel's Tomb/Glint Hawk Idol.
Riddleform is interesting. Its default 3/3 flying body is a bit more aggressive than Myth, so while Myth is perhaps better suited to more controlling builds that want to sweep and then turn the corner with a powered up Myth, Riddleform might be better in a tempo deck that's continuously pushing damage. If you can reliably animate it it's got reasonably good stats for its rate, it dodges sorcery speed removal (mostly sweepers in Modern), and its nice that as an enchantment it triggers Prowess for the rest of your attacker when you cast it.
I think Riddleform's more relevant comparison for this deck might be to Smuggler's Copter -- both flying 3/3s for 2 mana that require some investment to animate, both trigger prowess. Riddleform doesn't get you 2-for-1'd by K Command and doesn't require another creature to tap, but Scooter's looting effect is deceptively powerful. In decks with less than ~14 pilots I get a little nervous running Copter, so I might be inclined to try Riddleform, but I know some of you have enjoyed good success with a couple copies of Copter.
I think it's actually a better version of Myth Realized for our deck because it is more aggressive than Myth Realized. I always like myth realized and thought it was underplayed, but then I played it and just felt a little underwhelmed when I played it. I hope this card doesn't fit into the same narrative, but I won't know until I try it. I went ahead and purchased a couple of foil copies just in case (I have a problem :)).
I really like spellweaver eternal two, however, I do agree it will fall into no-man's land with some of the other awesome 2 CMC prowess creatures. Abbot of Keral Keep is one of my favorite cards of all time (second to Geist) and I really really want to play the card in my deck, but there are just better options for my current deck. I will have to make a second UR prowess deck that is based around the prowess mechanic to utilize abbot, bloodwater eternal, stormchaser mage, etc so I can play with some of my favorite cards.