I don't think that Jeskai Ascendancy is good enough as a value card (even the combo deck version isn't great), it is just too slow and does almost nothing without a creature (for looting purposes there are better cards).
To be honest I think we were be better running Crumble to Dust yes it's a turn 4 but once we land it they are done as we exile all of that tron land and with path we can fend off a wurmvoil or something for a turn to cast that if we are on the draw.
Also im considering apostle's blessing some form to help protect my creatures, especially from fatal push. not a full 4, maybe 1-2 and possibly adding in mishras bauble or manamorphose
Im going to modern tonight to relive the glory days once more before the ban takes hold lol
Edit- people are also suggesting thoughtscour to replace it. I wouldn't mind it either, as it synergistic with Reveler and Snapcaster mage if i wanna target myself.
Also im considering apostle's blessing some form to help protect my creatures, especially from fatal push. not a full 4, maybe 1-2 and possibly adding in mishras bauble or manamorphose.
Im going to modern tonight to relive the glory days once more before the ban takes hold lol
Try to keep the tears in :-/. Get one more 4-0 finish with the deck!
I am actually really excited to get to brew a little again. It's not the circumstances I wanted, but maybe this will be a blessing in disguise. I was getting to the point where the deck only had 1 flex spot left so now I get to play around with 4 flex spots. I haven't decided on an option yet, but will keep you all posted on how my testing goes with different cards.
Edit- people are also suggesting thoughtscour to replace it. I wouldn't mind it either, as it synergistic with Reveler and Snapcaster mage if i wanna target myself.
While I will agree that Thought Scour synergizes well with Snapcaster and Reveler I personally feel our deck is not set up best to take full advantage from it. If we compare this to other decks potentially running this card: Grixis/Esper/Sultai all have access to Gurmag Angler and Tasigur, Grixis also has K-Command, Esper has Lingering Souls some lists also pack Think Twice, All of these decks also have access to Liliana, The last Hope. Having these card options are what makes this such a powerful card to run IMO. In our list we are only running most times 2 Snap and 2 Reveler and if we mill those with thought scour we gained no real value. I won't say not to test it I just believe we are not set up to take best advantage.. Could potentially add some Logic Knots if we want to get more GY action.
Try to keep the tears in :-/. Get one more 4-0 finish with the deck!
I am actually really excited to get to brew a little again. It's not the circumstances I wanted, but maybe this will be a blessing in disguise. I was getting to the point where the deck only had 1 flex spot left so now I get to play around with 4 flex spots. I haven't decided on an option yet, but will keep you all posted on how my testing goes with different cards.
Brewing and testing are one of the best parts of making our decks, finding better synergy and plays etc. I personally believe that Gitaxian Probe was lack luster, It could of been my list specifically but I never really wanted to draw it.. The knowledge i got from it mostly just allowed me to play around a counter spells to drop geist since he cannot be spot removed but We can also do that just by watching how our opponant taps their mana. I think this banning is good for us, it is forcing everyone to start exploring different options that never got explored because Gitaxian Probe kind of became a "I must have this card because I am tempo" which I do not think was necessarily correct
Edit- people are also suggesting thoughtscour to replace it. I wouldn't mind it either, as it synergistic with Reveler and Snapcaster mage if i wanna target myself.
While I will agree that Thought Scour synergizes well with Snapcaster and Reveler I personally feel our deck is not set up best to take full advantage from it. If we compare this to other decks potentially running this card: Grixis/Esper/Sultai all have access to Gurmag Angler and Tasigur, Grixis also has K-Command, Esper has Lingering Souls some lists also pack Think Twice, All of these decks also have access to Liliana, The last Hope. Having these card options are what makes this such a powerful card to run IMO. In our list we are only running most times 2 Snap and 2 Reveler and if we mill those with thought scour we gained no real value. I won't say not to test it I just believe we are not set up to take best advantage.. Could potentially add some Logic Knots if we want to get more GY action.
Try to keep the tears in :-/. Get one more 4-0 finish with the deck!
I am actually really excited to get to brew a little again. It's not the circumstances I wanted, but maybe this will be a blessing in disguise. I was getting to the point where the deck only had 1 flex spot left so now I get to play around with 4 flex spots. I haven't decided on an option yet, but will keep you all posted on how my testing goes with different cards.
Brewing and testing are one of the best parts of making our decks, finding better synergy and plays etc. I personally believe that Gitaxian Probe was lack luster, It could of been my list specifically but I never really wanted to draw it.. The knowledge i got from it mostly just allowed me to play around a counter spells to drop geist since he cannot be spot removed but We can also do that just by watching how our opponant taps their mana. I think this banning is good for us, it is forcing everyone to start exploring different options that never got explored because Gitaxian Probe kind of became a "I must have this card because I am tempo" which I do not think was necessarily correct
I hope this is the case Rafiq. It really could be a blessing in disguise. I still haven't found the correct card for my list, but I am having a great time trying things and thinking about different options!
I did think of Thought Scour, but I have always hated that card because I always seem to scour away the card I want to draw and then draw a stinker. With that said, it may actually be the best option because we lost graveyard filler in probe. Right now I have just put an additional land in and two Peeks. I watched Caleb Durward's stream last night and he had a one of Mutagenic Growth and a one of Twisted Image. These are also great options, but because I run Slip through space I want to make sure that I don't have too many creature dependent cards in my deck.
Geist did some serious work during his stream. I did miss the last round and a half, but he was 2-1 and up a game when I stopped watching. I hope he ended 4-1. Did anyone else catch his stream?
Thinking about life after the Probe ban I was thinking we should consider gearing to face the control/midrange decks with more value plays, so I thought I'd start with 2 Bedlam Reveler and 3 Remand in place of probes and 1 Stormchaser Mage. As such, here's my post ban list:
Thinking about life after the Probe ban I was thinking we should consider gearing to face the control/midrange decks with more value plays, so I thought I'd start with 2 Bedlam Reveler and 3 Remand in place of probes and 1 Stormchaser Mage. As such, here's my post ban list:
I think both of these decks are on the right path and would consider building something that is in between. If Thought Scour is where we want to go I believe we need to add more to utilize our Graveyard (not as far as say Grixis or Esper) but further then where we currently sit. In this I believe that adding 1-2 Grim Lavamancer will be great in our decks, I think going up to 4 Snapcaster becomes more previlant as well so we can flashback the spells we scour OR keep Snapcaster at 2 and add in 2x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. Stormchaser Mage i have never found we utilize him to his best and the removal of Gitaxian Probe makes him even worse in my opinion. I still prefer Geist in the late game but if Mentor is your preference i believe him along side cards like Jeskai Charm are great. Personally I like Faithless Looting more then Thought Scour for the reasons I have said above but also, outside of instant speed it does the same thing as Thought Scour by putting a total of 3 cards into the GY however i get to choose what 2 cards those are, I have control over weather I can better utilize this spell in my GY for later or have it in hand. Faithless Also comes with a built in Flashback not requiring the Snapcaster Mage, If we want to add more GY interaction I believe this is the best one for our deck specifically. PS: I have played online against some Grixis Delver & Grixis Control lists running this in their deck in place of probes as well... Might be worth the test
I also agree with Curdbros that we do not want to many cards in our deck that focus on needing a creature on the board since we do not run all that many and we aren't pulling out a T2 kill like infect with just 1 creature. I am glad everyone is busy brewing :).
The reason to run Stormchaser Mage wasn't and still isn't probe. Sure it helped, being 90% of the time a free spell, but the reason is the amplification effect of burn spells (my list plays 10, 12 with snags) and the value you get from cantrips in combination with prowess. The times I've blown out people with 2-3 creatures on board and casting a single bolt are too many. Even when used as a removal prowess provides value. Stormchaser Mage lends himself to more aggressive/tempo-ish strategies.
Alright guys... tonights record was not what I was hoping for in modern, 2-2, one win was a bye so... 1-2 actual games of magic.
Boros Control- 1-2
Esper Control 2-1
Mono White Devotion... 0-2 (yeah...you read that right)
Game 2
He plays a needle spire tapped I think. I have a spell pierce, but im not thinking even the slightest about a freaking chalice of the void so i play swiftspear, and i have a spell pierce in hand... he plays Chalice on 1. it's pretty much done. I literally just draw nothing but 1 drop spells, it goes awhile but he loops ghost quarter with crucible of worlds and its pretty much game. Stupid horrific misplay.
Game 3
He plays turn zero Leyline of Sanctity... mother of god...
I flood out this game, and i have burn spells that i use to burn his creatures but im not drawing anything relevant, and i cant point burn at his face unfortunately. he does wrath of god after he plays timely reinforcements, i try to spell pierce since i tapped out the turn he played timely, but he has a simian spirit guide and is able to pay for it, and wipes 3 of my creatures. his life total ends at 15 when i draw 4 lands in a row, ahd useless 1 mana spells, and he has played aven mindscensor to nuke a couple fetches and his gjost quarter action just got a whole lot better, and brimaz. he beats my down quickly with my 9 lands in play.
*ROUND 2 ESPER CONTROL 2-1 sorry for the lack of notes here
This was a very grindy match up, Game 1 I got him when he was at 3, and im at 2 with a timely lightning helix off the top, if i didnt draw a burn spell he would have killed me with lingering soul tokens.
Game 2 he got me, ended with him at 5. my pithing needle a gideon was fantastic though, echoing truth his lingering souls tokens was also great, and negate hit a narset which he wasn't expecting. very fun game
Game 3 Very quick kill from me. I came out swinging with swifty and stormchaser with serum visions, g probe, and lightning helix. Mantis rider, bolt, then top deck snapcaster for the bolt finishes this game very quickly, i was able to spell pierce a collective brutality, and pithing needle his sorin, solemn visitor so he couldnt make a blocker.
ROUND 3 WHITE DEVOTION 0-2
Game 1
I keep a 4 land hand with swifty, mantis rider, and a vapor snag. draw a probe for the next turn. A probe reveals a thalias lietuenant, an elesh norn, a nyxthos, a knight of the white orchid, and a joruney to nowhere. I actually v snag my swifty to save it in response to journey so i can try to end this thing quickly. I flood out pretty bad here, and an elesh norn gets played on TURN 7, and i draw useless crap like 2 mutagenic growths and lands.
sideboard... no ******* clue... take out 4 growths and 2 bolts, bring in 2 deflecting palm, 1 bedlam reveler, 2 path to exile,and i think wear tear.. maybe...
This game was stupid. a MANA TITHE GETS MY MANTIS RIDER... what.. the... actual...****... also STORY CIRCLE naming red... i got him down to 3, but couldnt close out. and he pulls way forward with MASTERY OF THE UNSEEN and NYXTHOS. he gains some life and just keeps mana open to stop any red threat. i see all 4 serum visions, and 3 snapcaster mages, and use them all to flashback serum visions to find some kind of answer, just kept bottoming lands and red creatures. the mtg gods were not my friend tonight gang. he morphs A NEWLAMOG from mastery and proceeds to exile the top 20, and he also has a brimaz out, and then i just scoop. I know that was stupid, and i shouldnt have gotten mad and quit, but i forgot about the deflecting palms in my deck. even if i drew it, he was gaining life every turn with his mastery and kept just getting more creatures and life. this game was over long before i quit i feel like...
So analysis...
-I hated mutagenic growths this night. I almost was ready to take them out as soon as i got home. When i won, i won without them, and when i drew them they were all terrible times.
-So i think i will have around 8 open spots after the ban takes effect lol
-Im not sure if i played the last round right with those visions and snapcasters, but i had no idea how to play against that deck at the time.
-Against the boros deck i did not see a single snapcaster, which sucked.
-Spell pierce was good. when it worked i felt great bringing it in, negate did good, and Pithing needle was actually very good, i was happy to see it everytime. echoing truth was great. these cards are not going anywhere.
Cards im considering in some fashion or another for the 75
as you see there is a LOT to consider and think about lol
the future version im thinking of having 2 bedlam revelers maindeck, so thoughtscour would not be the worst to consider if i go more of a burn route, will gladly take sugestions folks enjoy the read!
Alright guys... tonights record was not what I was hoping for in modern, 2-2, one win was a bye so... 1-2 actual games of magic.
Boros Control- 1-2
Esper Control 2-1
Mono White Devotion... 0-2 (yeah...you read that right)
Game 2
He plays a needle spire tapped I think. I have a spell pierce, but im not thinking even the slightest about a freaking chalice of the void so i play swiftspear, and i have a spell pierce in hand... he plays Chalice on 1. it's pretty much done. I literally just draw nothing but 1 drop spells, it goes awhile but he loops ghost quarter with crucible of worlds and its pretty much game. Stupid horrific misplay.
Game 3
He plays turn zero Leyline of Sanctity... mother of god...
I flood out this game, and i have burn spells that i use to burn his creatures but im not drawing anything relevant, and i cant point burn at his face unfortunately. he does wrath of god after he plays timely reinforcements, i try to spell pierce since i tapped out the turn he played timely, but he has a simian spirit guide and is able to pay for it, and wipes 3 of my creatures. his life total ends at 15 when i draw 4 lands in a row, ahd useless 1 mana spells, and he has played aven mindscensor to nuke a couple fetches and his gjost quarter action just got a whole lot better, and brimaz. he beats my down quickly with my 9 lands in play.
*ROUND 2 ESPER CONTROL 2-1 sorry for the lack of notes here
This was a very grindy match up, Game 1 I got him when he was at 3, and im at 2 with a timely lightning helix off the top, if i didnt draw a burn spell he would have killed me with lingering soul tokens.
Game 2 he got me, ended with him at 5. my pithing needle a gideon was fantastic though, echoing truth his lingering souls tokens was also great, and negate hit a narset which he wasn't expecting. very fun game
Game 3 Very quick kill from me. I came out swinging with swifty and stormchaser with serum visions, g probe, and lightning helix. Mantis rider, bolt, then top deck snapcaster for the bolt finishes this game very quickly, i was able to spell pierce a collective brutality, and pithing needle his sorin, solemn visitor so he couldnt make a blocker.
ROUND 3 WHITE DEVOTION 0-2
Game 1
I keep a 4 land hand with swifty, mantis rider, and a vapor snag. draw a probe for the next turn. A probe reveals a thalias lietuenant, an elesh norn, a nyxthos, a knight of the white orchid, and a joruney to nowhere. I actually v snag my swifty to save it in response to journey so i can try to end this thing quickly. I flood out pretty bad here, and an elesh norn gets played on TURN 7, and i draw useless crap like 2 mutagenic growths and lands.
sideboard... no ******* clue... take out 4 growths and 2 bolts, bring in 2 deflecting palm, 1 bedlam reveler, 2 path to exile,and i think wear tear.. maybe...
This game was stupid. a MANA TITHE GETS MY MANTIS RIDER... what.. the... actual...****... also STORY CIRCLE naming red... i got him down to 3, but couldnt close out. and he pulls way forward with MASTERY OF THE UNSEEN and NYXTHOS. he gains some life and just keeps mana open to stop any red threat. i see all 4 serum visions, and 3 snapcaster mages, and use them all to flashback serum visions to find some kind of answer, just kept bottoming lands and red creatures. the mtg gods were not my friend tonight gang. he morphs A NEWLAMOG from mastery and proceeds to exile the top 20, and he also has a brimaz out, and then i just scoop. I know that was stupid, and i shouldnt have gotten mad and quit, but i forgot about the deflecting palms in my deck. even if i drew it, he was gaining life every turn with his mastery and kept just getting more creatures and life. this game was over long before i quit i feel like...
So analysis...
-I hated mutagenic growths this night. I almost was ready to take them out as soon as i got home. When i won, i won without them, and when i drew them they were all terrible times.
-So i think i will have around 8 open spots after the ban takes effect lol
-Im not sure if i played the last round right with those visions and snapcasters, but i had no idea how to play against that deck at the time.
-Against the boros deck i did not see a single snapcaster, which sucked.
-Spell pierce was good. when it worked i felt great bringing it in, negate did good, and Pithing needle was actually very good, i was happy to see it everytime. echoing truth was great. these cards are not going anywhere.
Cards im considering in some fashion or another for the 75
as you see there is a LOT to consider and think about lol
the future version im thinking of having 2 bedlam revelers maindeck, so thoughtscour would not be the worst to consider if i go more of a burn route, will gladly take sugestions folks enjoy the read!
Now those are some interesting matchups!
RW prison decks are possibly our worst matchup out there behind Soul Sisters. Chalice on 1 basically ends our chances and they add leyline and bloodmoon on top of that. It is not a deck that anyone in my area plays so I really don't have a lot of practice against it or any real sideboard tech against it. I would definitely side in Echoing Truth for the problem permaments, wear//tear (if you fuse it you get around the chalice counter), Negate, spell pierce, deflecting palm x 2 (they often try to kill with Emrakul), and celestial purge. If I keep the Ancestral Visions in the board I might side those in too. That's a lot to side in, but we have a lot to side out too.
White Devotion is not one I have heard of. My brothrt plays green devotion so I am very experienced against that deck, but not the white version. I have no clue.
As for the slots, I do like the idea of Thought Scour/Faithless Looting with Grim Lavamancer. This may be too slow, but it fits the game plan fairly well. Here are the packages I am going to try. I will be testing each of the packages in a 4 game set against burn, abzan, grixis delver, and eldrazi. Here they are:
Set 1
1x Kari Sev's Expertise
2x Ancestral Vision
Set 2
2 Thought Scour/Faithless Looting
1 Grim Lavamancer
Set 2
2 Peek
1 Spell Pierce
I'm sure I will tinker with other cards as well but this is my starting point. What are you guys trying?
Thanks guys... i take 45 minutes for that report and... these are the responses i get... lolol
i apologise if i wasn't more direct.
but i really mean it when i recommended surgical extraction.
there is always something to surgical extract, may it be a removal spell (like fatal push, lightning bolt, path to exile) or some synergistic spell like lingering souls, expedition map, sylvan scrying, ancient stirring)
given that jeskai aggro archetypes have benefited tremendously from the fast land printing in kaladesh, playing a few copies of surgical extraction mainboard isn't really a bad thing as it strips away the opponent's choices to interact with our board or their deck.
although we can argue how many copies of lightning helix we need to mainboard to balance out the life loss, we can also look into other life gain options like Seeker of the Way which i tested to great effect in the past as a pesky, low to the ground drop that opponents hate to interact with.
if decks can play Dark Confidant and risk killing themselves just to draw cards, i think we can pay life to gain some sort of tempo advantage with Surgical Extraction.
Alright guys... tonights record was not what I was hoping for in modern, 2-2, one win was a bye so... 1-2 actual games of magic.
Boros Control- 1-2
Esper Control 2-1
Mono White Devotion... 0-2 (yeah...you read that right)
Game 2
He plays a needle spire tapped I think. I have a spell pierce, but im not thinking even the slightest about a freaking chalice of the void so i play swiftspear, and i have a spell pierce in hand... he plays Chalice on 1. it's pretty much done. I literally just draw nothing but 1 drop spells, it goes awhile but he loops ghost quarter with crucible of worlds and its pretty much game. Stupid horrific misplay.
Game 3
He plays turn zero Leyline of Sanctity... mother of god...
I flood out this game, and i have burn spells that i use to burn his creatures but im not drawing anything relevant, and i cant point burn at his face unfortunately. he does wrath of god after he plays timely reinforcements, i try to spell pierce since i tapped out the turn he played timely, but he has a simian spirit guide and is able to pay for it, and wipes 3 of my creatures. his life total ends at 15 when i draw 4 lands in a row, ahd useless 1 mana spells, and he has played aven mindscensor to nuke a couple fetches and his gjost quarter action just got a whole lot better, and brimaz. he beats my down quickly with my 9 lands in play.
*ROUND 2 ESPER CONTROL 2-1 sorry for the lack of notes here
This was a very grindy match up, Game 1 I got him when he was at 3, and im at 2 with a timely lightning helix off the top, if i didnt draw a burn spell he would have killed me with lingering soul tokens.
Game 2 he got me, ended with him at 5. my pithing needle a gideon was fantastic though, echoing truth his lingering souls tokens was also great, and negate hit a narset which he wasn't expecting. very fun game
Game 3 Very quick kill from me. I came out swinging with swifty and stormchaser with serum visions, g probe, and lightning helix. Mantis rider, bolt, then top deck snapcaster for the bolt finishes this game very quickly, i was able to spell pierce a collective brutality, and pithing needle his sorin, solemn visitor so he couldnt make a blocker.
ROUND 3 WHITE DEVOTION 0-2
Game 1
I keep a 4 land hand with swifty, mantis rider, and a vapor snag. draw a probe for the next turn. A probe reveals a thalias lietuenant, an elesh norn, a nyxthos, a knight of the white orchid, and a joruney to nowhere. I actually v snag my swifty to save it in response to journey so i can try to end this thing quickly. I flood out pretty bad here, and an elesh norn gets played on TURN 7, and i draw useless crap like 2 mutagenic growths and lands.
sideboard... no ******* clue... take out 4 growths and 2 bolts, bring in 2 deflecting palm, 1 bedlam reveler, 2 path to exile,and i think wear tear.. maybe...
This game was stupid. a MANA TITHE GETS MY MANTIS RIDER... what.. the... actual...****... also STORY CIRCLE naming red... i got him down to 3, but couldnt close out. and he pulls way forward with MASTERY OF THE UNSEEN and NYXTHOS. he gains some life and just keeps mana open to stop any red threat. i see all 4 serum visions, and 3 snapcaster mages, and use them all to flashback serum visions to find some kind of answer, just kept bottoming lands and red creatures. the mtg gods were not my friend tonight gang. he morphs A NEWLAMOG from mastery and proceeds to exile the top 20, and he also has a brimaz out, and then i just scoop. I know that was stupid, and i shouldnt have gotten mad and quit, but i forgot about the deflecting palms in my deck. even if i drew it, he was gaining life every turn with his mastery and kept just getting more creatures and life. this game was over long before i quit i feel like...
So analysis...
-I hated mutagenic growths this night. I almost was ready to take them out as soon as i got home. When i won, i won without them, and when i drew them they were all terrible times.
-So i think i will have around 8 open spots after the ban takes effect lol
-Im not sure if i played the last round right with those visions and snapcasters, but i had no idea how to play against that deck at the time.
-Against the boros deck i did not see a single snapcaster, which sucked.
-Spell pierce was good. when it worked i felt great bringing it in, negate did good, and Pithing needle was actually very good, i was happy to see it everytime. echoing truth was great. these cards are not going anywhere.
Cards im considering in some fashion or another for the 75
as you see there is a LOT to consider and think about lol
the future version im thinking of having 2 bedlam revelers maindeck, so thoughtscour would not be the worst to consider if i go more of a burn route, will gladly take sugestions folks enjoy the read!
With that curve you really don't need 20 lands, I'd cut one or 2. 4 Snags and 4 Snapcasters seem like an overkill to me. As far as cards you might wanna try go with delver(definately recommend him in place of Riders), Mentors and Boros Charms. As a replacement to Probe I'm really considering Peeks since I don't think Thought Scour is a good card in our decks.
Alright guys... tonights record was not what I was hoping for in modern, 2-2, one win was a bye so... 1-2 actual games of magic.
Boros Control- 1-2
Esper Control 2-1
Mono White Devotion... 0-2 (yeah...you read that right)
Game 2
He plays a needle spire tapped I think. I have a spell pierce, but im not thinking even the slightest about a freaking chalice of the void so i play swiftspear, and i have a spell pierce in hand... he plays Chalice on 1. it's pretty much done. I literally just draw nothing but 1 drop spells, it goes awhile but he loops ghost quarter with crucible of worlds and its pretty much game. Stupid horrific misplay.
Game 3
He plays turn zero Leyline of Sanctity... mother of god...
I flood out this game, and i have burn spells that i use to burn his creatures but im not drawing anything relevant, and i cant point burn at his face unfortunately. he does wrath of god after he plays timely reinforcements, i try to spell pierce since i tapped out the turn he played timely, but he has a simian spirit guide and is able to pay for it, and wipes 3 of my creatures. his life total ends at 15 when i draw 4 lands in a row, ahd useless 1 mana spells, and he has played aven mindscensor to nuke a couple fetches and his gjost quarter action just got a whole lot better, and brimaz. he beats my down quickly with my 9 lands in play.
*ROUND 2 ESPER CONTROL 2-1 sorry for the lack of notes here
This was a very grindy match up, Game 1 I got him when he was at 3, and im at 2 with a timely lightning helix off the top, if i didnt draw a burn spell he would have killed me with lingering soul tokens.
Game 2 he got me, ended with him at 5. my pithing needle a gideon was fantastic though, echoing truth his lingering souls tokens was also great, and negate hit a narset which he wasn't expecting. very fun game
Game 3 Very quick kill from me. I came out swinging with swifty and stormchaser with serum visions, g probe, and lightning helix. Mantis rider, bolt, then top deck snapcaster for the bolt finishes this game very quickly, i was able to spell pierce a collective brutality, and pithing needle his sorin, solemn visitor so he couldnt make a blocker.
ROUND 3 WHITE DEVOTION 0-2
Game 1
I keep a 4 land hand with swifty, mantis rider, and a vapor snag. draw a probe for the next turn. A probe reveals a thalias lietuenant, an elesh norn, a nyxthos, a knight of the white orchid, and a joruney to nowhere. I actually v snag my swifty to save it in response to journey so i can try to end this thing quickly. I flood out pretty bad here, and an elesh norn gets played on TURN 7, and i draw useless crap like 2 mutagenic growths and lands.
sideboard... no ******* clue... take out 4 growths and 2 bolts, bring in 2 deflecting palm, 1 bedlam reveler, 2 path to exile,and i think wear tear.. maybe...
This game was stupid. a MANA TITHE GETS MY MANTIS RIDER... what.. the... actual...****... also STORY CIRCLE naming red... i got him down to 3, but couldnt close out. and he pulls way forward with MASTERY OF THE UNSEEN and NYXTHOS. he gains some life and just keeps mana open to stop any red threat. i see all 4 serum visions, and 3 snapcaster mages, and use them all to flashback serum visions to find some kind of answer, just kept bottoming lands and red creatures. the mtg gods were not my friend tonight gang. he morphs A NEWLAMOG from mastery and proceeds to exile the top 20, and he also has a brimaz out, and then i just scoop. I know that was stupid, and i shouldnt have gotten mad and quit, but i forgot about the deflecting palms in my deck. even if i drew it, he was gaining life every turn with his mastery and kept just getting more creatures and life. this game was over long before i quit i feel like...
So analysis...
-I hated mutagenic growths this night. I almost was ready to take them out as soon as i got home. When i won, i won without them, and when i drew them they were all terrible times.
-So i think i will have around 8 open spots after the ban takes effect lol
-Im not sure if i played the last round right with those visions and snapcasters, but i had no idea how to play against that deck at the time.
-Against the boros deck i did not see a single snapcaster, which sucked.
-Spell pierce was good. when it worked i felt great bringing it in, negate did good, and Pithing needle was actually very good, i was happy to see it everytime. echoing truth was great. these cards are not going anywhere.
Cards im considering in some fashion or another for the 75
as you see there is a LOT to consider and think about lol
the future version im thinking of having 2 bedlam revelers maindeck, so thoughtscour would not be the worst to consider if i go more of a burn route, will gladly take sugestions folks enjoy the read!
With that curve you really don't need 20 lands, I'd cut one or 2. 4 Snags and 4 Snapcasters seem like an overkill to me. As far as cards you might wanna try go with delver(definately recommend him in place of Riders), Mentors and Boros Charms. As a replacement to Probe I'm really considering Peeks since I don't think Thought Scour is a good card in our decks.
I was planning on probably cutting down my removal for more burn. I will not be replacing mantis riders though. I may trim him though. If you played with them as much as I have you would understand how good they are. why cant rider and delver go together? I like multiple flyers Lol
I do agree on cutting land if im going to be keeping the curve the same. I'm thinking of going a little bigger due to my meta and how hard my area is pushing love for control decks and fatal push.
Mentor has gotten worse since the ban, im not sure if ill be picking them up just yet. I will be taking another look at boros charm though for sure.
4 Snapcasters is a must honestly. It's seriously one of the best modern cards in the format. I think the only reason a person isnt running 4... is because they dont have 4 lol
This is off topic, but I need to share this: Most busted Modern deck ever
Just played a few rounds on Xmage and won far too many games with a turn 2 or 3 Emrakul. I only used 3 Dispel as Sideboard and they even let me win against U Tron and UB Fairies. This deck is absurd. It's not even fun to win with it because it's too easy. If a lot of players pick this abomination up, then WotC really need to rethink the ruling on Fused cards. -_-
I'm not a mod or anything but frankly i could care less about Emrakul decks and actual input that doesn't further the jeskai way. If you could refrain from posting this spam in the future that would be great.
I'm not trying to be a douche, but i wouldnt go to an infect page asking people to check out this page about bw tokens.
I'm new to this deck but, i have some experience on tempo decks and false tempo decks. When i try to build and capitalize on some extrategies, i think is important to assume that in ever match, the plan B becomes the plan A. Because some sort of removal is always avaliable to our opponents, and modern have lost some legs (gitaxian legs), is time to reinvent the the jeskai way. It's time to take some kind of resilience.
Let's begin
The core of deck is a haste creature based. This fact buy us one turn in any situation. Even in case of non-haste creatures, we have some ETB creatures that develop a bunch of value. Some popular packages like Snapcaster plus Bolt, a single Reflector Mage or a late game Abbot of Keral Keep give us time and tempo advantage. Keep this, will be relevant.
The core spell is a aggressive and permissive core. One mana counters and pumps and poor cantrips make the game far superior on tempo. Negate to lilianas, Mutagenic to Bolts, Apostle's Blessing can dodge Decay and Ceremonious make Eldrazi cry in absence of Caverns. Slip Through Space and Twisted Image are cantrips and prowess enablers ( Twisted is a Stormchaser 4/2 fly haste). All in all, it's a great core.
But don't have a Splinter Twin to ours Mantis Rider. No Become Immense to ours Swiftspear. There's no victory out nowhere.
Until now.
Enters the False Tempo Jeskai.
If i told you that is possible to beat much damage in one turn with just one card? From nowhere? What you would think? 'Nah, it's impossible!'
So, let me explain in a top-down design:
Last turn your opponent cast supreme verdict. In your turn, a caster, two swiftspears, two stormchaser. And a Rally of the Ancestors in your hand. X is equal to two. Snap flashback a Mutagenic Growth, all others have haste. You still have cards in your hand. An alpha strike.
Because of False Tempo philosofy, this jeskai way don't need to all-win all time. But plays a game that scares any opponent. If they play closed, Snap Bolt. If they open, Rally then. If not, the old jeskai take care.
I will bring some lists tomorrow.
Ps: sorry, inglish is not my native language.
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Jeskai Aggro/Prowess gets a 1% share at Tier 3.
=)
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
4x Monastery Mentors are better imho than 2x + 2x Jeskai Ascendancy.
Also Mutagenic Growth is very good with Mentor as a free spell to generate immediate value and protect him from L.Bolt.
About Ghost Quarter, it is always a good colorless utility land option.
Against "Tron" you can SB some copies of Molten Rain and Pithing Needle is very good against them and there is always countermagic like:
Spell Pierce/Negate/Ceremonious Rejection.
Crumble to Dust is too late at 4-mana imho.
Im going to modern tonight to relive the glory days once more before the ban takes hold lol
Edit- people are also suggesting thoughtscour to replace it. I wouldn't mind it either, as it synergistic with Reveler and Snapcaster mage if i wanna target myself.
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Try to keep the tears in :-/. Get one more 4-0 finish with the deck!
I am actually really excited to get to brew a little again. It's not the circumstances I wanted, but maybe this will be a blessing in disguise. I was getting to the point where the deck only had 1 flex spot left so now I get to play around with 4 flex spots. I haven't decided on an option yet, but will keep you all posted on how my testing goes with different cards.
While I will agree that Thought Scour synergizes well with Snapcaster and Reveler I personally feel our deck is not set up best to take full advantage from it. If we compare this to other decks potentially running this card: Grixis/Esper/Sultai all have access to Gurmag Angler and Tasigur, Grixis also has K-Command, Esper has Lingering Souls some lists also pack Think Twice, All of these decks also have access to Liliana, The last Hope. Having these card options are what makes this such a powerful card to run IMO. In our list we are only running most times 2 Snap and 2 Reveler and if we mill those with thought scour we gained no real value. I won't say not to test it I just believe we are not set up to take best advantage.. Could potentially add some Logic Knots if we want to get more GY action.
Brewing and testing are one of the best parts of making our decks, finding better synergy and plays etc. I personally believe that Gitaxian Probe was lack luster, It could of been my list specifically but I never really wanted to draw it.. The knowledge i got from it mostly just allowed me to play around a counter spells to drop geist since he cannot be spot removed but We can also do that just by watching how our opponant taps their mana. I think this banning is good for us, it is forcing everyone to start exploring different options that never got explored because Gitaxian Probe kind of became a "I must have this card because I am tempo" which I do not think was necessarily correct
I hope this is the case Rafiq. It really could be a blessing in disguise. I still haven't found the correct card for my list, but I am having a great time trying things and thinking about different options!
I did think of Thought Scour, but I have always hated that card because I always seem to scour away the card I want to draw and then draw a stinker. With that said, it may actually be the best option because we lost graveyard filler in probe. Right now I have just put an additional land in and two Peeks. I watched Caleb Durward's stream last night and he had a one of Mutagenic Growth and a one of Twisted Image. These are also great options, but because I run Slip through space I want to make sure that I don't have too many creature dependent cards in my deck.
Geist did some serious work during his stream. I did miss the last round and a half, but he was 2-1 and up a game when I stopped watching. I hope he ended 4-1. Did anyone else catch his stream?
1x Arid Mesa
3x Flooded Strand
1x Hallowed Fountain
3x Inspiring Vantage
1x Island
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Scalding Tarn
1x Seachrome Coast
2x Spirebluff Canal
1x Steam Vents
Instant (20)
2x Boros Charm
1x Jeskai Charm
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Lightning Helix
3x Mutagenic Growth
2x Path to Exile
3x Remand
2x Vapor Snag
2x Bedlam Reveler
4x Delver of Secrets
2x Monastery Mentor
4x Monastery Swiftspear
2x Snapcaster Mage
3x Stormchaser Mage
Sorcery (4)
4x Serum Visions
Planeswalker (1)
1x Saheeli Rai
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Blood Moon
2x Deflecting Palm
2x Geist of Saint Traft
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Path to Exile
1x Saheeli Rai
2x Spell Pierce
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Wear / Tear
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Young Pyromancer
2 Bedlam Reveler
Spells (26)
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Boros Charm
2 Spell Snare
4 Remand
3 Path to Exile
4 Serum Visions
3 Thought Scour
2 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Seachrome Coast
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Spirebluff Canal
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Path to Exile
2 Wear // Tear
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Molten Rain
2 Dispel
1 Bedlam Reveler
1 Isochron Scepter
Flipping Delvers since 2011
MY DECKS
Modern: UR Izzet Delver
Pauper: U Delver Faeries | R Red Burn | GInfect
Commander: WB Athreos, God of Passage | UR Keranos Spellslinger | GWU Derevi, Tempo Tactician | BGU Tasigur, the Golden Fang | RW Feather, the Redeemed
I think both of these decks are on the right path and would consider building something that is in between. If Thought Scour is where we want to go I believe we need to add more to utilize our Graveyard (not as far as say Grixis or Esper) but further then where we currently sit. In this I believe that adding 1-2 Grim Lavamancer will be great in our decks, I think going up to 4 Snapcaster becomes more previlant as well so we can flashback the spells we scour OR keep Snapcaster at 2 and add in 2x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. Stormchaser Mage i have never found we utilize him to his best and the removal of Gitaxian Probe makes him even worse in my opinion. I still prefer Geist in the late game but if Mentor is your preference i believe him along side cards like Jeskai Charm are great. Personally I like Faithless Looting more then Thought Scour for the reasons I have said above but also, outside of instant speed it does the same thing as Thought Scour by putting a total of 3 cards into the GY however i get to choose what 2 cards those are, I have control over weather I can better utilize this spell in my GY for later or have it in hand. Faithless Also comes with a built in Flashback not requiring the Snapcaster Mage, If we want to add more GY interaction I believe this is the best one for our deck specifically. PS: I have played online against some Grixis Delver & Grixis Control lists running this in their deck in place of probes as well... Might be worth the test
I also agree with Curdbros that we do not want to many cards in our deck that focus on needing a creature on the board since we do not run all that many and we aren't pulling out a T2 kill like infect with just 1 creature. I am glad everyone is busy brewing :).
1x Bedlam Reveler
4x Mantis Rider
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Stormchaser Mage
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
4x Mutagenic Growth
4x Vapor Snag
4x Serum Visions
2x Arid Mesa
1x Flooded Strand
1x Hallowed Fountain
4x Inspiring Vantage
1x Island
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
3x Scalding Tarn
4x Spirebluff Canal
1x Steam Vents
2x Deflecting Palm
1x Echoing Truth
1x Negate
1x Izzet Staticaster
2x Path to Exile
1x Pithing Needle
2x Spell Pierce
3x Surgical Extraction
1x Bedlam Reveler
1x Wear / Tear
Alright guys... tonights record was not what I was hoping for in modern, 2-2, one win was a bye so... 1-2 actual games of magic.
Boros Control- 1-2
Esper Control 2-1
Mono White Devotion... 0-2 (yeah...you read that right)
*ROUND 1 BOROS CONTROL 1-2
Game 1
Hand was gas, Im on the play, he mulls to 6, he plays a T1 Ghostly Prison... ok seems good. He draws very poorly for the rest of the game. I literally only see 2 ghost quarters, a wrath of god, some plains and that enchantment. Im curving out nicely with burn + swifty so the game doesnt last long. the ghostly prison doesn't let me flood the board and swarm him, so the wrath of god only gets a stormchaser mage.
Sideboard -4 mutagenic growth, -1 vapor snag. + 1 negate, 2 spell pierce, 1 echoing truth, 1 wear/tear
Game 2
He plays a needle spire tapped I think. I have a spell pierce, but im not thinking even the slightest about a freaking chalice of the void so i play swiftspear, and i have a spell pierce in hand... he plays Chalice on 1. it's pretty much done. I literally just draw nothing but 1 drop spells, it goes awhile but he loops ghost quarter with crucible of worlds and its pretty much game. Stupid horrific misplay.
Game 3
He plays turn zero Leyline of Sanctity... mother of god...
I flood out this game, and i have burn spells that i use to burn his creatures but im not drawing anything relevant, and i cant point burn at his face unfortunately. he does wrath of god after he plays timely reinforcements, i try to spell pierce since i tapped out the turn he played timely, but he has a simian spirit guide and is able to pay for it, and wipes 3 of my creatures. his life total ends at 15 when i draw 4 lands in a row, ahd useless 1 mana spells, and he has played aven mindscensor to nuke a couple fetches and his gjost quarter action just got a whole lot better, and brimaz. he beats my down quickly with my 9 lands in play.
*ROUND 2 ESPER CONTROL 2-1 sorry for the lack of notes here
I'm sorry about this round guys, I wasn't about to write down match notes after this because it went almost to time then the match started. I loved this guys deck though, Narset Transcendant, Collective Brutality, Lingering Souls, Elsepth, Sun's Champion, ESPER CHARM.
This was a very grindy match up, Game 1 I got him when he was at 3, and im at 2 with a timely lightning helix off the top, if i didnt draw a burn spell he would have killed me with lingering soul tokens.
Sideboard- -4 mutagenic growths, -2 v snag, -1 bolt, +1 negate, +2 Spell pierce. +1 Izzet Staticaster, +1 Pithing needle, +1 echoing truth, +1 bedlam reveler
Game 2 he got me, ended with him at 5. my pithing needle a gideon was fantastic though, echoing truth his lingering souls tokens was also great, and negate hit a narset which he wasn't expecting. very fun game
Game 3 Very quick kill from me. I came out swinging with swifty and stormchaser with serum visions, g probe, and lightning helix. Mantis rider, bolt, then top deck snapcaster for the bolt finishes this game very quickly, i was able to spell pierce a collective brutality, and pithing needle his sorin, solemn visitor so he couldnt make a blocker.
ROUND 3 WHITE DEVOTION 0-2
Game 1
I keep a 4 land hand with swifty, mantis rider, and a vapor snag. draw a probe for the next turn. A probe reveals a thalias lietuenant, an elesh norn, a nyxthos, a knight of the white orchid, and a joruney to nowhere. I actually v snag my swifty to save it in response to journey so i can try to end this thing quickly. I flood out pretty bad here, and an elesh norn gets played on TURN 7, and i draw useless crap like 2 mutagenic growths and lands.
sideboard... no ******* clue... take out 4 growths and 2 bolts, bring in 2 deflecting palm, 1 bedlam reveler, 2 path to exile,and i think wear tear.. maybe...
This game was stupid. a MANA TITHE GETS MY MANTIS RIDER... what.. the... actual...****... also STORY CIRCLE naming red... i got him down to 3, but couldnt close out. and he pulls way forward with MASTERY OF THE UNSEEN and NYXTHOS. he gains some life and just keeps mana open to stop any red threat. i see all 4 serum visions, and 3 snapcaster mages, and use them all to flashback serum visions to find some kind of answer, just kept bottoming lands and red creatures. the mtg gods were not my friend tonight gang. he morphs A NEWLAMOG from mastery and proceeds to exile the top 20, and he also has a brimaz out, and then i just scoop. I know that was stupid, and i shouldnt have gotten mad and quit, but i forgot about the deflecting palms in my deck. even if i drew it, he was gaining life every turn with his mastery and kept just getting more creatures and life. this game was over long before i quit i feel like...
So analysis...
-I hated mutagenic growths this night. I almost was ready to take them out as soon as i got home. When i won, i won without them, and when i drew them they were all terrible times.
-So i think i will have around 8 open spots after the ban takes effect lol
-Im not sure if i played the last round right with those visions and snapcasters, but i had no idea how to play against that deck at the time.
-Against the boros deck i did not see a single snapcaster, which sucked.
-Spell pierce was good. when it worked i felt great bringing it in, negate did good, and Pithing needle was actually very good, i was happy to see it everytime. echoing truth was great. these cards are not going anywhere.
Cards im considering in some fashion or another for the 75
as you see there is a LOT to consider and think about lol
the future version im thinking of having 2 bedlam revelers maindeck, so thoughtscour would not be the worst to consider if i go more of a burn route, will gladly take sugestions folks enjoy the read!
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Now those are some interesting matchups!
RW prison decks are possibly our worst matchup out there behind Soul Sisters. Chalice on 1 basically ends our chances and they add leyline and bloodmoon on top of that. It is not a deck that anyone in my area plays so I really don't have a lot of practice against it or any real sideboard tech against it. I would definitely side in Echoing Truth for the problem permaments, wear//tear (if you fuse it you get around the chalice counter), Negate, spell pierce, deflecting palm x 2 (they often try to kill with Emrakul), and celestial purge. If I keep the Ancestral Visions in the board I might side those in too. That's a lot to side in, but we have a lot to side out too.
White Devotion is not one I have heard of. My brothrt plays green devotion so I am very experienced against that deck, but not the white version. I have no clue.
As for the slots, I do like the idea of Thought Scour/Faithless Looting with Grim Lavamancer. This may be too slow, but it fits the game plan fairly well. Here are the packages I am going to try. I will be testing each of the packages in a 4 game set against burn, abzan, grixis delver, and eldrazi. Here they are:
Set 1
1x Kari Sev's Expertise
2x Ancestral Vision
Set 2
2 Thought Scour/Faithless Looting
1 Grim Lavamancer
Set 2
2 Peek
1 Spell Pierce
I'm sure I will tinker with other cards as well but this is my starting point. What are you guys trying?
It's a fun time to brew!
i can get behind this.
would be really BM (bad manners) in my casual games but i will pre-empt my playgroup that i am playtesting some radical new tech beforehand.
*whispers softly* you can even surgical extract opponent's fetchlands
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
i apologise if i wasn't more direct.
but i really mean it when i recommended surgical extraction.
there is always something to surgical extract, may it be a removal spell (like fatal push, lightning bolt, path to exile) or some synergistic spell like lingering souls, expedition map, sylvan scrying, ancient stirring)
given that jeskai aggro archetypes have benefited tremendously from the fast land printing in kaladesh, playing a few copies of surgical extraction mainboard isn't really a bad thing as it strips away the opponent's choices to interact with our board or their deck.
although we can argue how many copies of lightning helix we need to mainboard to balance out the life loss, we can also look into other life gain options like Seeker of the Way which i tested to great effect in the past as a pesky, low to the ground drop that opponents hate to interact with.
if decks can play Dark Confidant and risk killing themselves just to draw cards, i think we can pay life to gain some sort of tempo advantage with Surgical Extraction.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
With that curve you really don't need 20 lands, I'd cut one or 2. 4 Snags and 4 Snapcasters seem like an overkill to me. As far as cards you might wanna try go with delver(definately recommend him in place of Riders), Mentors and Boros Charms. As a replacement to Probe I'm really considering Peeks since I don't think Thought Scour is a good card in our decks.
I was planning on probably cutting down my removal for more burn. I will not be replacing mantis riders though. I may trim him though. If you played with them as much as I have you would understand how good they are. why cant rider and delver go together? I like multiple flyers Lol
I do agree on cutting land if im going to be keeping the curve the same. I'm thinking of going a little bigger due to my meta and how hard my area is pushing love for control decks and fatal push.
Mentor has gotten worse since the ban, im not sure if ill be picking them up just yet. I will be taking another look at boros charm though for sure.
4 Snapcasters is a must honestly. It's seriously one of the best modern cards in the format. I think the only reason a person isnt running 4... is because they dont have 4 lol
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
will report back how i did and what the deck feels.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
This is off topic, but I need to share this: Most busted Modern deck ever
Just played a few rounds on Xmage and won far too many games with a turn 2 or 3 Emrakul. I only used 3 Dispel as Sideboard and they even let me win against U Tron and UB Fairies. This deck is absurd. It's not even fun to win with it because it's too easy. If a lot of players pick this abomination up, then WotC really need to rethink the ruling on Fused cards. -_-
I'm not trying to be a douche, but i wouldnt go to an infect page asking people to check out this page about bw tokens.
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
I'm new to this deck but, i have some experience on tempo decks and false tempo decks. When i try to build and capitalize on some extrategies, i think is important to assume that in ever match, the plan B becomes the plan A. Because some sort of removal is always avaliable to our opponents, and modern have lost some legs (gitaxian legs), is time to reinvent the the jeskai way. It's time to take some kind of resilience.
Let's begin
The core of deck is a haste creature based. This fact buy us one turn in any situation. Even in case of non-haste creatures, we have some ETB creatures that develop a bunch of value. Some popular packages like Snapcaster plus Bolt, a single Reflector Mage or a late game Abbot of Keral Keep give us time and tempo advantage. Keep this, will be relevant.
The core spell is a aggressive and permissive core. One mana counters and pumps and poor cantrips make the game far superior on tempo. Negate to lilianas, Mutagenic to Bolts, Apostle's Blessing can dodge Decay and Ceremonious make Eldrazi cry in absence of Caverns. Slip Through Space and Twisted Image are cantrips and prowess enablers ( Twisted is a Stormchaser 4/2 fly haste). All in all, it's a great core.
But don't have a Splinter Twin to ours Mantis Rider. No Become Immense to ours Swiftspear. There's no victory out nowhere.
Until now.
Enters the False Tempo Jeskai.
If i told you that is possible to beat much damage in one turn with just one card? From nowhere? What you would think? 'Nah, it's impossible!'
So, let me explain in a top-down design:
Last turn your opponent cast supreme verdict. In your turn, a caster, two swiftspears, two stormchaser. And a Rally of the Ancestors in your hand. X is equal to two. Snap flashback a Mutagenic Growth, all others have haste. You still have cards in your hand. An alpha strike.
Because of False Tempo philosofy, this jeskai way don't need to all-win all time. But plays a game that scares any opponent. If they play closed, Snap Bolt. If they open, Rally then. If not, the old jeskai take care.
I will bring some lists tomorrow.
Ps: sorry, inglish is not my native language.