Hey Stevo, I like the way your deck looks at the moment, the only card that seems out of place to me is a 1-of mutagenic growth, I see your reasoning for it as a save spell or the extra 3 points on a prowess creature I just think as a 1 it's a little out of sorts but I'm just speaking from my own play style where a card like that I would want to see every game type thing.
Your maybe cards seem like sideboard cards to me, Elspeth makes great for the games to go long and a top deck seiftspear of Delver a big threat even with no more spells. Real Zarek I assume is just a favourite card of yours? I think if you wanted an effect like his that Ajani would be better for helix instead of just bolt. Blessed Alliance I currently run in my SB and will hopefully get to see if it's worth it tonight if I ever sideboard it in. Negate and Dispel are also in my SB for the games where I go control. Restoration Angel as a 1 of is not worth the slot, she is a good finisher and saves Geist re-activates snap etc but with only 1 I don't think she works, might be better suited as a Mentor or a Brimaz.
I like the 19 lands with 7 cantrips however 2 of your cantrips are remands which u may never get to use it, also as you run the prowess mechanic it might be to much as you will be throwing more spells, testing will tell for sure but 18 lands might be better.
As for my deck I will be testing more today, no one ended up replying for suggestions so I only made 1 change and that was to switch Chandra out for a 3rd resto angel.
Hi Rafiq,
I was running 2 Growths but I had to cut something to add the 2 Probes and the 2 Boros Charms
However, I still think it's a nice surprise for my opponent when Geist becomes a 4/4 all of a sudden, and with 4 Snappys I'll most likely cast it twice.
In a more aggressive deck (really like the 20 creature deck with Guides, Swiftspears, Snappys, Stormchasers and Mantis Riders) I'd run 4 Growths for sure.
I fear that I can't cast Elspeth with WW playing only 19 lands (which is also one of the few comments I have regarding your deck, which I really like, but I wouldn't run Cryptics that demand UUU and Elspeth that needs WW in the same three-colored 19 land deck). Raz is easy to cast thanks to UR but I haven't tested him enough. Just like his flavor. I don't like Ajani Vengeant because he has loyality 3 and mana cost 4, compared with +1 vs -2
Stevomat- I just noticed your Scalding Tarns are foreign. That's some super bling . I love it. Also, the foreign promo gitaxian probes are amazing. Where did you find those? Are you working on foiling out the entire deck, or just getting the ones you specifically like?
Haha, thanks
I am not planning on foiling out the entire deck. I just like a lot of the foil FNM and other promo cards like Serum Visions, Probe, Pillar and Path. Especially Path--this version is just beautiful! And since I am running only three basics I wanted them to be special. The Scalding Tarns are not foreign, they are German like I I bought the Probes online at Magiccardmarket. They are Japanese and I only play them since I can read Japanese. I don't like playing with cards I can't read.
i do not have a fixed sideboard but the staples in there is usually 2-3 Surgical Extraction, 2 Stony Silence and 2 Ghostly Prison
Nice to see pics from others as well
And speaking of Surgical Extraction...
I posted my deck on the FB Magic for Good group (I hadn't for a long time) to get some advice from other players as well.
Surgical Extraction for the SB was suggested there as well. I think I'll switch one of my Grafdigger's Cages for a Surgical Extraction.
It was also suggested that the 1 Fumarole looks bad and should rather be a Sulfur Falls or another fast land. And that I might take out the third Helix either for a Dispel or to add Elspeth.
Do you agree? Guess I'll test with these changes...
Hi Rafiq,
I was running 2 Growths but I had to cut something to add the 2 Probes and the 2 Boros Charms Frown
However, I still think it's a nice surprise for my opponent when Geist becomes a 4/4 all of a sudden, and with 4 Snappys I'll most likely cast it twice.
In a more aggressive deck (really like the 20 creature deck with Guides, Swiftspears, Snappys, Stormchasers and Mantis Riders) I'd run 4 Growths for sure.
I fear that I can't cast Elspeth with WW playing only 19 lands (which is also one of the few comments I have regarding your deck, which I really like, but I wouldn't run Cryptics that demand UUU and Elspeth that needs WW in the same three-colored 19 land deck). Raz is easy to cast thanks to UR but I haven't tested him enough. Just like his flavor. I don't like Ajani Vengeant because he has loyality 3 and mana cost 4, compared with +1 vs -2 Frown
I understand your concern/fear with Elspeth, Knight-Errant as well as with Cryptic Command. In a 3 color deck there is alot of uncertainty from players that cards with double or even triple casting cost are impossible to cast, however i found this to be incorrect. To break this down I think it is best to look at my land base that I use. Out of my 19 lands, 7 of them are Fetch lands which can all grab me a blue source, including my Bloodstained Mire which can grab a Steam Vents, I also run 9 lands that produce U (2 Hallowed, 2 Vents, 2 Spirebluff, 2 Island, 1 Glacial) and of these 9 lands 6 of them are fetchable which gives me a very high chance of having UUU by T3 without trying. Using the same process I have 5 White sources (2 Hallowed, 1 Sacred, 1 Glacial, 1 Plains) I know this may seem low, however outside of Elspeth i only need 1 white source on board at a time, i will happily just wait till the following turn to cast a Path or Helix if i tapped out T3 for Geist instead. Just like my U mana, i can easily have atleast 2 forms of white by T2 if i need it which means by time i draw Elspeth i have what i need. my white source may be a bit low in which i would switch 1 spirebluff to a Seachrome but have not had issues yet. With the 19 lands I have had games where I have 6 lands on board although Ideal is to win by T5 latest so I have not had issues getting land. 1 thing for sure is if i get hit with Blood Moon Cryptics become unusable to me since i only run 2 Basic Islands and same for Elspeth running only 1 Plains, If Blood Moon was a fear for me i might change my mana base slightly to have more basics but i think i would probably board our Cryptics in that MU anyway.
Without testing the cards in your deck (or anyone else for that matter) you really do not know if it is the right fit, I tested it because i was finding in my games that I was having no issues getting to 4 mana on board and always had plenty of U mana, I say don't let the fear of double or triple colors stop you from testing and don't let others in the meta tell you that Cryptic needs to have 22+ land (which is what i was told) I personally do not think I would ever remove it from my list now that it is there, the value it has added has made a world of a difference for my deck specifically.. However in cases of decks like Hooglands or Curdbros Cryptic i think would be out of place MB, not due to its UUU but because it is a 4CMC spells, those decks want the 1 or 2 CMC spells to get prowess triggers. Using a Cryptic to tap the opponent and draw 1 card and swing for 2 with swiftspear seems lackluster IMO.
Hope that answers your question in regards to Cryptic and Elspeth in my list with only 19 lands.. and in case anyone said TL;DR: I consistently get the correct lands with ease and neither card is ever dead in my hand.
As for the Growth on Geist i see your reasoning it is a huge surprise and being Phyrexian Mana is super easy to cast, and if it is working keep at it. I only brought it up as i know personally I am not a fan of 1-of spells, I run Elspeth as a 1-of but she is a card that when she lands has much value to her so I am OK with it also being a planeswalker is not easy to remove since i keep the board fairly clear, 1-of Instant/Sorcery i never was a fan of, I like consistency to much LOL.
Ajani seems to have the same feedback most have with him is that his Loyalty is to low. I personally never plan for my walker to last more then 1 turn so for me using Ajani and getting an extra helix would be considered worth while to me. Although he doesn't fit in my current list.
i do not have a fixed sideboard but the staples in there is usually 2-3 Surgical Extraction, 2 Stony Silence and 2 Ghostly Prison
Nice to see pics from others as well
And speaking of Surgical Extraction...
I posted my deck on the FB Magic for Good group (I hadn't for a long time) to get some advice from other players as well.
Surgical Extraction for the SB was suggested there as well. I think I'll switch one of my Grafdigger's Cages for a Surgical Extraction.
It was also suggested that the 1 Fumarole looks bad and should rather be a Sulfur Falls or another fast land. And that I might take out the third Helix either for a Dispel or to add Elspeth.
Do you agree? Guess I'll test with these changes...
i tried fumarole. its not good. too high an activation cost for a lot of mana esp when i am playing a 18 land variant. the few times i drew into it needing a 2nd or 3rd untapped land, it was feels bad.
i also added 2 Mutagenic Growth for 1 Stormchaser and 1 Boros Charm after taking the pictures... i was testing it after taking the pictures and the deck felt weird and i realized its because I forgot about Mutagenic Growth. I was playing Grixis Delver for a bit on the side, so I sleeved up the Jeskai Delver deck to take that picture. I be playing Jeskai Aggro/tempo a bit now since its sleeved up again.
Sorry this Is taking me so long to reply. Yanno, holidays and such. I'll answer these questions and then write up a brief tourny report later today when I'm able.
1) I felt that burn was likely going to be better positioned than normal in this tournament. I also wanted to play a deck that had resiliency but plenty of ability to go crush face and be aggressive from multiple angles. For those who haven't tried my decklist, Delver isn't there to be a Delver as he is in most other delver decks. He is there as a blue Wild Nacatl. Anyways, Burn spells are a great way to not care about what your opponent has on the board. It's a big hammer for a great rate. Drawing multiple Boros Charms feel great, but I can't say the same about every spell in the deck like Vapor Snag or Jeskai Charm. You're simply trying to get the opponent dead as quickly as possible and Boros Charm is a great way to do that.
The double strike actually does come up. It's primarily only going to be in conjunction with Mutagenic Growth or Jeskai Charm for +1 and lifelink tho. The general rule of thumb is if the creature will only hit for 4 power, Boros charm the opponent, but if the creature breaks 5 or more, you'll get better mileage from double strike.
2) Mentor is a very interesting card. To be honest, he really feel more like Pack Rat than Pyro to me. I can't tell you how many times I've won because the tokens had prowess. With this list, Mentor is designed to be a late game card. During the first 1-5 turns of the game, you're really just trying to punk them out with small fast creatures, burn spells, and Snapcaster Mage. Mentor is for when Jund starts to stabilize, etc. 1 Mentor can go wide around a Goyf and Scooze, but Geist can't really do that. The way it feels is that Geist is a 3 mana Rift Bolt. He likely won't survive the next combat, so he's just a one and done kind of card.Mentor can also be helped by the top of your deck as well. Casting cost restrictions are huge, so only 1 white versus white and blue will often determine whether or not you can also cast a burn spell that same turn due to color restrictions.
3) A few simple reasons against Path:
a) Doesn't play well with our sideboard Blood Moons.
b) We have a few tempo based removal spells for when they land a big dude that we cant bolt away.
c) The creatures we care about Pathing are taken care of by other board cards without sacrificing tempo by ramping the opponent's lands. Here's a few dudes for example:
Wurm Coil Engine: We have Smash to Smithereens, so we dont cast anything that doesn't deal damage and will be coming in against Tron anyways. Also Bringing in Skulllcrack for more reach also works as a great Combat trick for swinging into a wurmcoil.
Thragtusk/Obstinate Baloth: the lifegain is the biggest part of what they're doing. Skullcrack is big for these guys. Them having a 4/4 or a 5/3 isn't as scary when they're forced into blocking duty.
Primeval Titan: Path gives them another basic mountain...not what we want to be doing. Jeskai Charm is great when you can shuffle the titan away with the ETB trigger on the stack to search for lands.
4) You can kind of read this as above, but I really don't feel that Geist is a good Modern card. It really hurts my feelings to say that too lol. He just tends to not do enough and he's too hard to protect while your opponent sits on the other side with a 1/1 unblockable infect creature. He's my 2nd favorite card ever (behind Lily of the Veil), but I can't bring myself to play him in Modern.
***Edit***
Thought I was on the last page of the forum. Was super wrong. Anyways, I like what you guys are trying with your decks. Just finished making the entire 75 foiled, so it's really cool to see that some of you are doing it too! I don't see many fastlands in your decks. Any particular reason why? I assume burn is less prevalent in your local metas than mine. I'd likely get crushed with all shocks and fetches lol.
@Steveo - I like your deck! I'm a big fan of your foreign lands, and I appreciate your basics as well lol. Have you tested much the Fumarole? I'm curious about the land entering tapped and the mana dedication it takes to turn it on.
I'd really like to help you out and make suggestions to your sideboard or mainboard if you'd like the input. Is your deck primarily going to be used for FNM level events or premier level play like a GP? Either answer is totally fine. If used for local play, what is your meta like? I have to make changes to my 75 based on if I'm at my shop or somewhere across the country at a GP.
Huge fan of Deflecting Palm. Was secretly the best card in my SB at the last GP.
Also a side question for members of the group out of curiosity, how many people here are GP or SCG Open grinders?
@Stevomat: I absolutely love your basics! I myself am running full arts but I am always looking out for those old school foils, they just add something special and now after they reprinted the full arts they are nothing special anymore (kind off). The nostalgia is just way to good.
But I also love my whiteboardered blood moon, I think I am one off the few weird people liking WB cards.
The "problem" I see with your SB is that 9/15 cards make your delver and snapcaster worse, lowering your I&S count. Cage is an awesome card, but it basically gets rid of our reach potential, not entirely but considerably.
What are the cards you name with Pithing needle? Would there be instants or sorceries that could do kind of the same? If you are naming manlands most of the time my question isnt relevant, but if you are naming for instance planeswalkers why dont you just add the negate? It is not exactly the same, but it works well with Snap and Delver. Maybe one copy of stony can be a second wear//tear.
Thats how I am running my SB.
Some of your cards in the maybe board are really spicy, I really like the redirect and I love the Elspeth (I am running her myself). Ral Zarek is sweet as well but he just is a inferior Ajani Vengeant, Blessed Alliance can be so good against so many MUs like ZOO, Deaths Shadow, Titan Breach to some extent, the nice thing about it is, that its just so versatile.
I havent had a problem with casting elspeth and I am running 19 lands just like you are, so this should be no problem.
@Rafiq:
Sry for not replying but there wasnt anything I would have changed and I like that you are going a different route. And I dont think that 4 geist is that bad, because you can just suicide the first one and get on board with another one right afterwards.
@ian:
I can see your point on geist it is just that I started playing this deck because of him and I will not remove him. Against creature heavy decks he just isnt that good, but against control decks he is so anoying to deal with if he gets to stick.
Currently I am trying one boros charm main board and I really would like to fit another one into my 60 but I dont know what to cut right now.
Maybe I can get myself together and make some pictures of my deck as well, but I think I will wait for my chinese Cliques to arrive.
I am with you on Geist here Mazereon, I got into Modern to play Geist, I wanted to build the perfect deck for Geist which is why my list has deviated from where it was by adding in Resto angel etc to abuse Geist more. I do however disagree that against creature heavy decks he isn't that good. As Jeskai we run (in my opinion) the best, most versatile removal spells out there, and we run so many of them. I've said it before that creatures are useless against us, this is why Negate is such a good counter for decks like ours as we don't care as much for creatures. There ar every few games where my opponent can keep 1 creature on board let alone try and block Geist... and then when they do Resto saves him but thats my list specific. On top of this the title of our deck is Tempo, and the burn spells that we use for not only removal but for that reach and Geist is that reach/tempo as well. Even without running 4 geist like my list where I slap another down, to suicide in and get that 4 angel damage through and then hit you with burn still kills quickly. We can be a burn deck if we need to, we can be the aggressor if we need to and we can win the counter wars. Take for example you do not draw Delver or a Swiftspear first 3 turns but instead have Bolt/Helix/Boros Chamrm, by turn 3 alone you can easily get the opponent with over half their life, T1 Bolt, T2 Bolt, Helix, T3 Geist, T4 Attack, Boros Charm, Bolt/Helix.. this path here is an easy 20 damage and Geist himself doesn't need to connect. People do not fear Geist, they fear his angel.
It seems that we have a fundamental disagreement on Geist, definitely not that it's a bad thing per se, just a difference. Have you all looked into other cards to make your Geists better? I'd suggest looking into Eiganjo (primarily) or Essence Flux. Cannot tell you how great Boros Charm is. Highly recommend fitting more copies.
For me personally I am going back to my old secret weapon for testing... Steel of the Godhead when I first made this deck I ran 4 which was way to much lol but since I'm taking out the snags I'm gonna try adding 2 back on my deck, when it lands I don't care what u may or may not have on board, I just win lol
Sorry this Is taking me so long to reply. Yanno, holidays and such. I'll answer these questions and then write up a brief tourny report later today when I'm able.
***Edit***
Thought I was on the last page of the forum. Was super wrong. Anyways, I like what you guys are trying with your decks. Just finished making the entire 75 foiled, so it's really cool to see that some of you are doing it too! I don't see many fastlands in your decks. Any particular reason why? I assume burn is less prevalent in your local metas than mine. I'd likely get crushed with all shocks and fetches lol.
No worries Ian.
I would love to run a full set of Spirebuff Canals and 1-2 Seachrome Coast, but these cards are still rather expensive in my area. With only 1 Spirebuff Canal and 4 Inspiring Vantage in my stash, I have to tune my mana base accordingly. Burn strategies in my local meta is still fairly common, that is sometimes why I pack cards like Lightning Helix and Blessed Alliance in my sideboard.
Also, to answer your question about GP/SCG Grinding, I do not reside in the US. There are GPs every year in my Region (in fact my country had a GP this year) but I do not necessary have the time (family, work, yadda yadda) to take part. I however try and play as many games as I can with my play group that plays a mix of competitive and self brew-ish decks.
Some of your cards in the maybe board are really spicy, I really like the redirect and I love the Elspeth (I am running her myself). Ral Zarek is sweet as well but he just is a inferior Ajani Vengeant, Blessed Alliance can be so good against so many MUs like ZOO, Deaths Shadow, Titan Breach to some extent, the nice thing about it is, that its just so versatile.
I havent had a problem with casting elspeth and I am running 19 lands just like you are, so this should be no problem.
I am quite a fan of Blessed Alliance. That card is able to create some terrifying blowouts against the Suicide Zoo player when you buff their life (makes Death's Shadow smaller with a chance that it blanks out Temur Battle Rage's Trample trigger) and they have to sacrifice an attacking creature.
Along with Deflecting Palm, Jeskai Prowess Aggro/Tempo has really great sideboard cards.
For me personally I am going back to my old secret weapon for testing... Steel of the Godhead when I first made this deck I ran 4 which was way to much lol but since I'm taking out the snags I'm gonna try adding 2 back on my deck, when it lands I don't care what u may or may not have on board, I just win lol
Geist + Godhead is pretty much a win in the late game or over 2 turns during the mid game. I think Godhead is a severely underplayed card in Modern. I see it as an auto-include in U/W Spirits with Always Watching. Slap it on Spellqueller or Geist and its pretty much game over... but that is another deck. Sorry guys!
lol if the card is a focus then yeah it's another deck.. I'm treating the 2 I'm adding back in almost like jeskai Charm, both grant me life, both can make Geist unblockable (more so the Godhead) and both do extra damage lol. Until I can find the right spell for the snags I think it's just super fun to have a card that can be dead but when it gets used I win the game vs a card that is dead and when used is not a large turning point. It's just for fun LOL
@Steveo - I like your deck! I'm a big fan of your foreign lands, and I appreciate your basics as well lol. Have you tested much the Fumarole? I'm curious about the land entering tapped and the mana dedication it takes to turn it on.
I'd really like to help you out and make suggestions to your sideboard or mainboard if you'd like the input. Is your deck primarily going to be used for FNM level events or premier level play like a GP? Either answer is totally fine. If used for local play, what is your meta like? I have to make changes to my 75 based on if I'm at my shop or somewhere across the country at a GP.
Huge fan of Deflecting Palm. Was secretly the best card in my SB at the last GP.
Also a side question for members of the group out of curiosity, how many people here are GP or SCG Open grinders?
Thanks!
I have Fumarole for a long time and it always was the one land that saved me when I was flooding out. But I always used 20 lands. Now I am going to try 19 cards and I think the activation cost might be too high.
Since it was the only land out of 20 that (always) comes into play tapped it wasn't a big problem. And of course it was always good against opponents with mass removal.
Of course I'd like to hear your input. I'd love to play this deck at a Modern GP, but there aren't any where I live. -_-
Next Modern GP in Europe is in May 2017! WotC policy regarding Modern events really sucks.
So, atm I can only play Modern FNMs every two weeks at my local store and a Modern GPT every 1 or 2 months...
Good thing is that Modern FNM at my store has 40-50 players and a huge diversity of decks: GR Tron, U Tron, Merfolk, Grixis Delver, Grixis Control, Goblins, Naya Burn, Jund, Abzan, Affinity, Dredge, Valakut, Double Walkers, Humans Aggro, Elves, Eldrazi & Taxes, Bant Eldrazi, Infect, BW Tokens, Lantern, Blue Moon, Nahiri Control--it's all there!
The "problem" I see with your SB is that 9/15 cards make your delver and snapcaster worse, lowering your I&S count. Cage is an awesome card, but it basically gets rid of our reach potential, not entirely but considerably.
What are the cards you name with Pithing needle? Would there be instants or sorceries that could do kind of the same? If you are naming manlands most of the time my question isnt relevant, but if you are naming for instance planeswalkers why dont you just add the negate? It is not exactly the same, but it works well with Snap and Delver. Maybe one copy of stony can be a second wear//tear.
Thats how I am running my SB.
Some of your cards in the maybe board are really spicy, I really like the redirect and I love the Elspeth (I am running her myself). Ral Zarek is sweet as well but he just is a inferior Ajani Vengeant, Blessed Alliance can be so good against so many MUs like ZOO, Deaths Shadow, Titan Breach to some extent, the nice thing about it is, that its just so versatile.
I havent had a problem with casting elspeth and I am running 19 lands just like you are, so this should be no problem.
Very good point regarding the sideboard! For this reason I changed Kor Firewalker to Rest for the Weary in the past, and tried Hallowed Moonlight over Grafdigger's Cage/Tormod's Crypt. Like I already wrote, I'll run 1 Surgical Extraction instead of the 2nd Cage. For the same reason I might replace 1 Leyline and Engineered E with Dispel and Blessed Alliance. How does that sound?
Pithing Needle is too versatile to miss upon. I can't even remember all the cards I named with it, but the most important ones are Karn, Lilly, Nahiri, Ezuri, Cranial Plating, Aether Vial and Inkmoth Nexus I guess.
I'll try Elspeth over the 3rd Helix this Friday and see how it goes. I just love her too much not to play her.
I just have to disagree about one thing: I think Ral Zarek is better than Ajani Vengeant. Ral has more tempo. You pay for mana, but you get to untap one land and have Bolt or Spell Pierce ready. At the same time you can tap a blocker and hit with Geist and you're at 5 loyality. He's not as bad as you think
You are kind of right, on the other hand he is basically blocked and killed by aanythingand sometimes you just don't have the burn in hand to finish off the opponent this way.
The MU that has been bothering me the most is Abzan, the funny thing is, everytime I have geist in hand with Spells to protect him and ways to get rid of the blockers he gets thoughtseized and the 2nd one on turn 3 just meets up perfectly with a LotV. And lingering souls is a nightmare to deal with.
And exactly for these reasons I am running Leylines against Abzan/Jund and I have Sulfur Elemental in my SB to surprise any Lingering Souls fans.
Yes in the builds using swift spear it is a dead card. In my build however which focuses on my Geist it's always live, and it can enchant a Delver to make him unblockable even tho he has flying, same goes for snapcaster, it can even hit my angel if I need the extra life.
Like I said I don't have any other spells to replace the snags and the enchantment is super fun to land. It's definitely not for every deck in this forum but fits mine decently well, providing it doesn't hurt my mama to much which is where testing is for. I'm also afraid of going down to 25 spells instead of 27 for Delver
Yes in the builds using swift spear it is a dead card. In my build however which focuses on my Geist it's always live, and it can enchant a Delver to make him unblockable even tho he has flying, same goes for snapcaster, it can even hit my angel if I need the extra life.
Like I said I don't have any other spells to replace the snags and the enchantment is super fun to land. It's definitely not for every deck in this forum but fits mine decently well, providing it doesn't hurt my mama to much which is where testing is for. I'm also afraid of going down to 25 spells instead of 27 for Delver
If you love the card and it works well in your deck, then definitely play it. We all want to win, but we also want to have fun when we play. It's hard sometimes to have fun and win, but it can be done. Especially if you just playing locally and don't play for a living.
With that said, it's great to have people who give honest and experienced advice. I take everyone's suggestions straight to testing, but in the end I pick what works best for me. There have been a number of times where one of you guys/gals told me something and it really helped me to make a better deck. Recently Ian made a great point about his mana base and it showed me that switching the Seachrome Coasts to Inspiring Vantages was correct. It has worked great since. That's just one of the reasons I love hearing from you guys and what you are currently playing/testing.
Andrewi83 (Ian)- I do not play in any major tournaments, just locally. My brother and I run/own an real estate appraisal company that keeps me pretty busy. In addition the family keeps me pretty busy as well. My life basically consists of Work, Family, Magic, and Golf. I also have a weekly (at minimum) testing group that plays modern. So I get a lot of play/testnig in, but not at the highest levels like yourself. Let us all know when you are traveling to a tournament so we can all give you positive energy and roof for you. Also if your ever in the Indianapolis IN area PM me so I could take you to dinner or give you a free place to stay for the tournament (I would get you a hotel room so you don't have to stay with the family :).)
Stevomat- Ral Zarek is one of my favorite cards of all time! I really hope we go back to ravnica so Ral can get another planeswalker card. I played a "lightning" deck with Ral, Lightning Angel, mantis rider, and Savor the Moment to take extra turns with vigilance creatures and untap mana to kill them quickly. It's not a tier 1 deck, but it was surprisingly good and a ton of fun to play.
As for my current build,
Saheeli Rai continues to impress me. She has been great lately. I think she only fits the aggro/control style builds, especially those with Bedlam Reveler, Snapcaster Mage, and/or Monastery Mentor. However, she has been great on turn 3 doing damage and letting me filter my draws and then turn the corner by doubling a creature.
Deflecting Palm continues to be great out of my sideboard. I know I have been pushing this card for two years now, but if your playing aggro or tempo then you should really give D Palm a try. It is great in the current linear meta. I know most of you are playing a copy or two, but I just wanted to share my results.
Echoing Truth has also been very valuable lately. This one is not widely played, but it has been great for me. Whether it's bouncing lingering souls tokens, two goyfs, two blood moons, an ensnaring bridge, or just a tasigur, it always seems to be a good draw. I have been very tempted to put it into my maindeck.
I took out one Distortion Strike to add a copy of Jeskai Charm to my maindeck. I have been looking for a way to get another copy of Boros Charm in the deck and I have also been wanting another source of life gain in the deck. A lot of you have mentioned this card so I am going to give it a try. If you guys run Jeskai Charm let me know what you think and if there are any interesting ways you have used it.
3) A few simple reasons against Path:
a) Doesn't play well with our sideboard Blood Moons.
b) We have a few tempo based removal spells for when they land a big dude that we cant bolt away.
c) The creatures we care about Pathing are taken care of by other board cards without sacrificing tempo by ramping the opponent's lands. Here's a few dudes for example:
Wurm Coil Engine: We have Smash to Smithereens, so we dont cast anything that doesn't deal damage and will be coming in against Tron anyways. Also Bringing in Skulllcrack for more reach also works as a great Combat trick for swinging into a wurmcoil.
Thragtusk/Obstinate Baloth: the lifegain is the biggest part of what they're doing. Skullcrack is big for these guys. Them having a 4/4 or a 5/3 isn't as scary when they're forced into blocking duty.
Primeval Titan: Path gives them another basic mountain...not what we want to be doing. Jeskai Charm is great when you can shuffle the titan away with the ETB trigger on the stack to search for lands.
4) You can kind of read this as above, but I really don't feel that Geist is a good Modern card. It really hurts my feelings to say that too lol. He just tends to not do enough and he's too hard to protect while your opponent sits on the other side with a 1/1 unblockable infect creature. He's my 2nd favorite card ever (behind Lily of the Veil), but I can't bring myself to play him in Modern.
I think this combination is actually why you don't like Geist of Saint Traft as much: by cutting Path to Exile you're lacking the extra removal spell to keep the opponent's board clean and allow you to keep the Geist alive. I can see your reasons for not including Path, but in that case I would suggest trying out a different removal spell in its place to see if that helps your perception of the Geist. I'll admit that I haven't played the deck at any major tournaments yet but my experience so far is that the Geist allows me to change gears into a more controlling deck which has its win-con already out on the board. To clarify, my game plan is to play the first ~3 turns like a burn deck while aggro decks can't yet handle removal and controlling decks are not really interacting yet and around turn 4-5 I drop a Geist and protect it to deal the last damage. I have yet to come across a deck that could keep a substantial board presence against my version outside of a creature-heavy version of Eldrazi and Taxes. For removal, I run 4x Lightning Bolt, 4x Lightning Helix, 4x Path to Exile and 2x Vapor Snag.
The only other deck I had some trouble keeping the board clear against was Elves but there I'm fine with trading a Geist for 4 damage (from the angel token) and 1-2 of their elves. Elves is one of the reasons I have 2x Anger of the Gods in my sideboard (the others being Merfolk and Dredge mainly).
Hey all its been kinda quiet here, so I have a card discussion for us :). I said I wanted a replacement for my Vapor Snags since they were dead in my meta and I still plan to test my 2 of Godhead a however for a 1cmc replacement what about Cloudshift it's 1cmc so it fits our plans, it does what restoration Angel does but without giving you an extra body, this can remove our creatures from targeted removal, save Geist in combat, and reuse our Snapcaster ability. I haven't seen this card get brought up here and honestly I forgot all about it as well.
Hey all its been kinda quiet here, so I have a card discussion for us :). I said I wanted a replacement for my Vapor Snags since they were dead in my meta and I still plan to test my 2 of Godhead a however for a 1cmc replacement what about Cloudshift it's 1cmc so it fits our plans, it does what restoration Angel does but without giving you an extra body, this can remove our creatures from targeted removal, save Geist in combat, and reuse our Snapcaster ability. I haven't seen this card get brought up here and honestly I forgot all about it as well.
Let me know what everyone thinks about this card
The holiday seasons slow the discussion down a bit. I am excited for the upcoming ban list updates and for next year's schedule because there are a ton more modern tournaments on the SCG tour and the GP schedule. I assume there will be a ton of discussion after the ban update, aether revolt spoilers, and when the next modern tournament comes up.
I'm a sucker for cool underplayed cards so this is right up my alley. Cloudshift also works well with Snapcaster Mage and Bedlam Reveler. With that said, I still think in most situations Vapor Snag will be superior because of it's utility. Since vapor snag is not good in your meta cloudshift is worth a try. Have you thought of trying Echoing Truth? I have loved this card out of my sideboard because it can bounce problem permanents like Blood Moon and Worship, but is also very good against tokens. The only problem is that it is a 2 CMC costed card.
Cloudshift is an interesting replacement for Emerge Unscathed as well. In a deck with ETB creatures and/or Geist it could work well. However, bouncing would have to be an important part of the gameplan because the card is dead unless you have a target. That'a part of the reason I have been running Slip Through Space instead of Distortion Strike because I can target an opposing player's creatures and, at minimum, cycle the card. I don't mind running 2 or 3 copies of a linear card in my maindeck if it helps with maindeck plan because they can easily be sided out in games 2 and 3 for more matchup oriented cards.
in my meta vapor snag is probably still a better choice, however I am interested to see how the card works in your meta. Keep us posted if you test the card. I am interested to see how it goes.
3) A few simple reasons against Path:
a) Doesn't play well with our sideboard Blood Moons.
b) We have a few tempo based removal spells for when they land a big dude that we cant bolt away.
c) The creatures we care about Pathing are taken care of by other board cards without sacrificing tempo by ramping the opponent's lands. Here's a few dudes for example:
Wurm Coil Engine: We have Smash to Smithereens, so we dont cast anything that doesn't deal damage and will be coming in against Tron anyways. Also Bringing in Skulllcrack for more reach also works as a great Combat trick for swinging into a wurmcoil.
Thragtusk/Obstinate Baloth: the lifegain is the biggest part of what they're doing. Skullcrack is big for these guys. Them having a 4/4 or a 5/3 isn't as scary when they're forced into blocking duty.
Primeval Titan: Path gives them another basic mountain...not what we want to be doing. Jeskai Charm is great when you can shuffle the titan away with the ETB trigger on the stack to search for lands.
4) You can kind of read this as above, but I really don't feel that Geist is a good Modern card. It really hurts my feelings to say that too lol. He just tends to not do enough and he's too hard to protect while your opponent sits on the other side with a 1/1 unblockable infect creature. He's my 2nd favorite card ever (behind Lily of the Veil), but I can't bring myself to play him in Modern.
I think this combination is actually why you don't like Geist of Saint Traft as much: by cutting Path to Exile you're lacking the extra removal spell to keep the opponent's board clean and allow you to keep the Geist alive. I can see your reasons for not including Path, but in that case I would suggest trying out a different removal spell in its place to see if that helps your perception of the Geist. I'll admit that I haven't played the deck at any major tournaments yet but my experience so far is that the Geist allows me to change gears into a more controlling deck which has its win-con already out on the board. To clarify, my game plan is to play the first ~3 turns like a burn deck while aggro decks can't yet handle removal and controlling decks are not really interacting yet and around turn 4-5 I drop a Geist and protect it to deal the last damage. I have yet to come across a deck that could keep a substantial board presence against my version outside of a creature-heavy version of Eldrazi and Taxes. For removal, I run 4x Lightning Bolt, 4x Lightning Helix, 4x Path to Exile and 2x Vapor Snag.
The only other deck I had some trouble keeping the board clear against was Elves but there I'm fine with trading a Geist for 4 damage (from the angel token) and 1-2 of their elves. Elves is one of the reasons I have 2x Anger of the Gods in my sideboard (the others being Merfolk and Dredge mainly).
I agree Cronax. Your analysis really gets to the heart of the argument. Card evaluation in terms of a specific deck really comes down to the style of game you prefer to play and how to play that style best. In the aggressive goblin guide/mantis rider version path and geist don't fit the plan because they are "slower" cards that aren't a tempo plus. However, in the aggro/control version they are great cards.
I play a very similar plan to your plan stated above. It falls under the aggro-control definition more so than tempo in my mind. While it does play a tempo oriented style game at the beginning of the game, the deck can end the game with aggression (reach from burn spells, unblockable spells, etc) or in a more controlling manner. I really like this version because it can side into a very aggressive deck or side into a more tempo/control oriented deck. My personal version can't really side into a true "control" deck because it only plays 18-19 lands, but I don't think my deck would be very good if I had the maindeck split between tempo and control style cards.
I don't have any elves decks in my meta so I haven't put a lot of time into that matchup. I can see how it would be a tough matchup. Anger of Gods would be a house.
Echoing Truth would be an interesting sideboard inclusion for my meta, however the only deck I see it working on is UB faeries' tokens from bitternlossom as Jund doesn't have much to bounce.. maybe goyf but I can deal with goyf easy, and bouncing liliana Seems bad. As well I feel the same issue would arrive for me that here is to much "on cast" or ETB from my opponents right Now that bouncing to let them have it again seems bad.
I also plan on testing the Slip Through space agon in my deck in place of the snags as it's still strong, I hope to test cloud form to just for shenanigans as with my deck it can save resto angel from a terminate which then in turn saves Geist again during combat of need be, it's a 3 and 4th snapcaster since I only have 2. I think if it works then it will be great but it will depend on how much use you receive from it as o obviously wouldn't want to bounce a Delver and un flip him or decks running swiftspear it would just be a way to save it from targeted removal but make it loose the prowess. Haha should be fun to test it, if it's horrible I won't loose sleep over it.
I think this combination is actually why you don't like Geist of Saint Traft as much: by cutting Path to Exile you're lacking the extra removal spell to keep the opponent's board clean and allow you to keep the Geist alive. I can see your reasons for not including Path, but in that case I would suggest trying out a different removal spell in its place to see if that helps your perception of the Geist. I'll admit that I haven't played the deck at any major tournaments yet but my experience so far is that the Geist allows me to change gears into a more controlling deck which has its win-con already out on the board. To clarify, my game plan is to play the first ~3 turns like a burn deck while aggro decks can't yet handle removal and controlling decks are not really interacting yet and around turn 4-5 I drop a Geist and protect it to deal the last damage. I have yet to come across a deck that could keep a substantial board presence against my version outside of a creature-heavy version of Eldrazi and Taxes. For removal, I run 4x Lightning Bolt, 4x Lightning Helix, 4x Path to Exile and 2x Vapor Snag.
The only other deck I had some trouble keeping the board clear against was Elves but there I'm fine with trading a Geist for 4 damage (from the angel token) and 1-2 of their elves. Elves is one of the reasons I have 2x Anger of the Gods in my sideboard (the others being Merfolk and Dredge mainly).
I play a very similar plan to your plan stated above. It falls under the aggro-control definition more so than tempo in my mind. While it does play a tempo oriented style game at the beginning of the game, the deck can end the game with aggression (reach from burn spells, unblockable spells, etc) or in a more controlling manner. I really like this version because it can side into a very aggressive deck or side into a more tempo/control oriented deck. My personal version can't really side into a true "control" deck because it only plays 18-19 lands, but I don't think my deck would be very good if I had the maindeck split between tempo and control style cards.
I think a transformational sideboard could be done even on 18-19 lands if you just add Celestial Colonnade instead of a nonland card. Take out some creatures and side in some more counterspells and there's your control shell. My experience with the deck is that we end up with plenty of land anyways, I rarely end games with less than 6 mana. That may not be enough for a Jeskai Nahiri style control deck but I think Sphinx's Revelation and Cryptic Command along with some stuff like Dispel and/or Negate can do wonders. Snapcaster Mages can stay in, as can Delver of Secrets. Monastery Swiftspear would come out first along with possibly Path to Exile if it has no/too few targets and otherwise I could see dropping some amount of Delvers/Geists to make room for what you're bringing in. The main difference between our more aggressive style and full control style is how they plan to win vs how we plan to win but the shells are similar enough for a transformational plan I feel.
Played a bunch of games yesterday testing with my 2x Steel of the Godhead back in the deck. Now i want to preface this with the fact this card will NOT fit into alot of the decks i have seen posted, I chose to run this from personal preference, my priority focus on Geist of Saint Traft and that I cannot find another replacment for the Vapor Snags.
I faced a handful of different decks and I cannot remember all the details so i do not have alot of write up about each match specifically but i will post the few things i do remember (it was a long night playing from 5:30 to Midnight). Decks i faced were: Abzan, Esper Processors, UB Faeries, Bant Eldrazi, Infect, Dredge.
Abzan 2-1: Game 1 was fairly straight forward for Abzan, he would use some sort of THoughtsieze on T1 making me discard but that just wasnt enough, he curved great with T1 Discard into Bob/Goyf/Ooze etc however i kept his board clear. Once I landed Geist i got a shot in and he dropped Seige Rhino, I slapped Steel of the Godhead on Geist the following turn and he couldn't keep up.
Game 2: I just drew everything to late, i had land, i had removal but i didn't draw my first Delver until T5, by this point it was long over due, i put up a fight and got him down to 5or6 still but he eventually just out paced me
Game 3: I just controlled this game from the start, I bolted his creatures and Remand / Snap remanded his spells. I again won this match with an enchanted Geist.
Esper Processors 0-3: Again i just cannot win this match up.. I did make 1 mistake which was that i dropped Elspeth with Geist on board trying to bait out a counter or spell queller so i could use my enchantment the next turn but he didn't have a countersepll had I dropped the enchantment instead i would of won. one game was just terrible though, i kept a very poor hand (bad mistake) to which i had 1 land and kept drawing spells i couldnt cast, ended up with 2 Geist in hand and had to discard so i discarded a geist... He hit me with Surgical extraction for that blunder. Another game he had ashiok out and kept exiling my stuff, eventually exiled both my snaps, 1 delver, 1 geist and 1 angel. Snaps allowed him to re-path my non geist creatures and I just couldn't get through.
UB Faeries 3-0: We played a 3rd game while waiting for matches to finish.
Game 1: I got my spells out quickly knowing i needed to get under his counter faeries and was able to out pace him with Delver and Geist.
Game 2: he got the point where he had to just block with bitterblossom faeries, I had Delver, Angel and Geist all on board, kept swinging in with my Angel and Delver forcing him to block.. every other creature he played either was on blocking duty or got bolted/helixed
Game 3: He got land screwed, ended up with only 2 Bitterblossoms on board ( I was going to cryptic his the turn before but i allowed the second to land) I essentially just kept swinging with Angel again and let Bitter Blossom kill him.
Infect 2-1: Game 1: His dropped elf T1 to which i bolted immediately, Hirearch got Helixed and i landed Delver and Geist. I unfortunatley just got beat down by a Nexus in the end as i forgot it had flying and left Geist back on blocking duty..
Game 2: Sideboarded (IN: 2x Negate, 1 Spell Pierce, 1 Dispel, 2 Surgical Extraction 1 Blessed Alliance) This was his nightmare, my opening hand consisted of 2x Path, 2x Bolt, 1 Spell Pierce, 2x Land. Every creature he played died, he even probed me to see the spells and try and play around it by forcign me to play certain spells... it didn't matter as i drew into a Cryptic and countered a Hirearch and bounced his Nexus after he played a land for turn.
Game 3: Similart to Game 2, just removed everything he had except i had 2 flipped delvers by T3
Bant Eldrazi 2-0: I do not remember this one sorry guys.. what i do recall is he got no Thougt-Knot Seer, i pathed every threat and Geist with Steel won the game. I did make 1 mistake though in forgetting that Drowner of hope can tap my creatures so i tapped out for Elspeth to make Gesit big to deal the last 12 points of damage (geist and delver on board) but he tapped down my delver.. I should of pathed Drowner instead of Elspeth.
Dredge 1-2: Game 1: I maintained control, bolting, pathing, helixing everything i could outside of Nacromebas, this kept me with enough life (thank you helix) and by time i dropped Godhead on Geist it was over, i gained ot much life per 2
Game 2/3: these were almost Identical, he exploded early and i drew little removal. I did deal with a couple of his Prized Amalgams and got my enchanted Geist again but it was to late.
I did face the Esper Processors deck again but vs someone who doesn't know hwo to use it properly so i ended up stomping him so i don't count this match same goes with the matches we had intermitent of other games finishing. All in All 4-2 for the night
I am happy with the Enchantment and never found that only 25 spells hurt my Delver.. the times when he didnt flip early i drew creature land or elspeth so even if those had been Snags he still wouldn't have flipped. It is a very underplayed card in modern but i found it a very good way of getting in extra damage unblocked instead of a 1 time use with the others... Also 4 life per turn is nothing to laugh at. The rest of the deck remained as smooth as it was before, Delver is still the best T1 play (outside of bolting infect creatures) and Resto Angel makes for a big threat. I am happy with where my deck is now until WoTC decides to release some better counter magic, or 1cmc spells etc that fit my deck.
1 Card that has come up in speculation thought is my Gitaxian Probes. I used them in the games but the information is less valuable i think with Geist in play.. If i face something with Flash or an Aether vial its worth knowing their hand in case they flash in to block but once the enchantments lands you cannot block anymore. I currently do not have plans of removing this card as it is still very strong and makes for sideboard fodder but out of the entire deck this would be the card I say is the least effective and would consider replacing for something better or more control if i need to (i actually sided all of these out against Infect)
I have attached a few pics of the start of my foiled out list. I finally finished the main deck non land cards. I have purchased a few of the lands, but I am not done yet. It will probably take a little while to finish :). I will post my non-foil version too if you all want to see it. Sorry the pics aren't great.
I see how we can get to different conclusions on Geist. While Path would certainly help to keep the board clear, I can't help but feel that Path just isn't proactive enough, primarily due to the fact that you can't throw a Path at somebody's face to end the game. The tempo that we will typically rely on to win is based on the fact that we usually get to cast mulitple spells per turn before our opponent does. Ramping our opponent with a spell pushes them towards stabilizing and turning the corner against us, even though it likely would get rid of a creature they spent an entire turn on to cast during the early game. Totally ok to disagree.
As for the Cronax's mentioning of colonnade, I don't feel that it's where you'd want to be when only playing 18 or 19 lands. It seems that if you're running that few, it's because you typically don't want to see them more than you absolutely have to. Even at 20 lands, I'd be nervous about playing it with the fact that it ETB tapped and that it takes a very high cost to turn on. If we ever did swing with it, it'd very likely be the only thing we did for not only our turn, but the opponent's as well and I can't help but to feel that's not where you want to be. I'd advise against it from a deckbuilding standpoint, but at least you aren't trying to play a black and green land in that slot lol.
Nice deck, @Curd! LOVE the bolts. How have you liked Saheeli Rai? Coiuld see it being interesting with Snapcaster. When I get the chance, I'll upload pics of mine. Jeskai Charm makes for a GORGEOUS foil, amirite?
Hey all its been kinda quiet here, so I have a card discussion for us :). I said I wanted a replacement for my Vapor Snags since they were dead in my meta and I still plan to test my 2 of Godhead a however for a 1cmc replacement what about Cloudshift it's 1cmc so it fits our plans, it does what restoration Angel does but without giving you an extra body, this can remove our creatures from targeted removal, save Geist in combat, and reuse our Snapcaster ability. I haven't seen this card get brought up here and honestly I forgot all about it as well.
Let me know what everyone thinks about this card
If you're on Geist, you should play Essence Flux. It's almost the exact same card, but can make Geist stronger if he's the card you blink.
First 2 games were a bit ugly. Last few games were atypical especially against Suicide Zoo and U/R Thing (easy games).
He also beat Ad Nausum so break out your note pads lads!
I typically stay away from Goblin Guide because of situations highlighted in the 1st game which is why I stick to Delver of Secrets. His mana base also puts him at an extreme disadvantage against Burn, again highlighted in his 1st Game.
Hi Rafiq,
I was running 2 Growths but I had to cut something to add the 2 Probes and the 2 Boros Charms
However, I still think it's a nice surprise for my opponent when Geist becomes a 4/4 all of a sudden, and with 4 Snappys I'll most likely cast it twice.
In a more aggressive deck (really like the 20 creature deck with Guides, Swiftspears, Snappys, Stormchasers and Mantis Riders) I'd run 4 Growths for sure.
I fear that I can't cast Elspeth with WW playing only 19 lands (which is also one of the few comments I have regarding your deck, which I really like, but I wouldn't run Cryptics that demand UUU and Elspeth that needs WW in the same three-colored 19 land deck). Raz is easy to cast thanks to UR but I haven't tested him enough. Just like his flavor. I don't like Ajani Vengeant because he has loyality 3 and mana cost 4, compared with +1 vs -2
Haha, thanks
I am not planning on foiling out the entire deck. I just like a lot of the foil FNM and other promo cards like Serum Visions, Probe, Pillar and Path. Especially Path--this version is just beautiful! And since I am running only three basics I wanted them to be special. The Scalding Tarns are not foreign, they are German like I I bought the Probes online at Magiccardmarket. They are Japanese and I only play them since I can read Japanese. I don't like playing with cards I can't read.
Nice to see pics from others as well
And speaking of Surgical Extraction...
I posted my deck on the FB Magic for Good group (I hadn't for a long time) to get some advice from other players as well.
Surgical Extraction for the SB was suggested there as well. I think I'll switch one of my Grafdigger's Cages for a Surgical Extraction.
It was also suggested that the 1 Fumarole looks bad and should rather be a Sulfur Falls or another fast land. And that I might take out the third Helix either for a Dispel or to add Elspeth.
Do you agree? Guess I'll test with these changes...
I understand your concern/fear with Elspeth, Knight-Errant as well as with Cryptic Command. In a 3 color deck there is alot of uncertainty from players that cards with double or even triple casting cost are impossible to cast, however i found this to be incorrect. To break this down I think it is best to look at my land base that I use. Out of my 19 lands, 7 of them are Fetch lands which can all grab me a blue source, including my Bloodstained Mire which can grab a Steam Vents, I also run 9 lands that produce U (2 Hallowed, 2 Vents, 2 Spirebluff, 2 Island, 1 Glacial) and of these 9 lands 6 of them are fetchable which gives me a very high chance of having UUU by T3 without trying. Using the same process I have 5 White sources (2 Hallowed, 1 Sacred, 1 Glacial, 1 Plains) I know this may seem low, however outside of Elspeth i only need 1 white source on board at a time, i will happily just wait till the following turn to cast a Path or Helix if i tapped out T3 for Geist instead. Just like my U mana, i can easily have atleast 2 forms of white by T2 if i need it which means by time i draw Elspeth i have what i need. my white source may be a bit low in which i would switch 1 spirebluff to a Seachrome but have not had issues yet. With the 19 lands I have had games where I have 6 lands on board although Ideal is to win by T5 latest so I have not had issues getting land. 1 thing for sure is if i get hit with Blood Moon Cryptics become unusable to me since i only run 2 Basic Islands and same for Elspeth running only 1 Plains, If Blood Moon was a fear for me i might change my mana base slightly to have more basics but i think i would probably board our Cryptics in that MU anyway.
Without testing the cards in your deck (or anyone else for that matter) you really do not know if it is the right fit, I tested it because i was finding in my games that I was having no issues getting to 4 mana on board and always had plenty of U mana, I say don't let the fear of double or triple colors stop you from testing and don't let others in the meta tell you that Cryptic needs to have 22+ land (which is what i was told) I personally do not think I would ever remove it from my list now that it is there, the value it has added has made a world of a difference for my deck specifically.. However in cases of decks like Hooglands or Curdbros Cryptic i think would be out of place MB, not due to its UUU but because it is a 4CMC spells, those decks want the 1 or 2 CMC spells to get prowess triggers. Using a Cryptic to tap the opponent and draw 1 card and swing for 2 with swiftspear seems lackluster IMO.
Hope that answers your question in regards to Cryptic and Elspeth in my list with only 19 lands.. and in case anyone said TL;DR: I consistently get the correct lands with ease and neither card is ever dead in my hand.
As for the Growth on Geist i see your reasoning it is a huge surprise and being Phyrexian Mana is super easy to cast, and if it is working keep at it. I only brought it up as i know personally I am not a fan of 1-of spells, I run Elspeth as a 1-of but she is a card that when she lands has much value to her so I am OK with it also being a planeswalker is not easy to remove since i keep the board fairly clear, 1-of Instant/Sorcery i never was a fan of, I like consistency to much LOL.
Ajani seems to have the same feedback most have with him is that his Loyalty is to low. I personally never plan for my walker to last more then 1 turn so for me using Ajani and getting an extra helix would be considered worth while to me. Although he doesn't fit in my current list.
i tried fumarole. its not good. too high an activation cost for a lot of mana esp when i am playing a 18 land variant. the few times i drew into it needing a 2nd or 3rd untapped land, it was feels bad.
i also added 2 Mutagenic Growth for 1 Stormchaser and 1 Boros Charm after taking the pictures... i was testing it after taking the pictures and the deck felt weird and i realized its because I forgot about Mutagenic Growth. I was playing Grixis Delver for a bit on the side, so I sleeved up the Jeskai Delver deck to take that picture. I be playing Jeskai Aggro/tempo a bit now since its sleeved up again.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
1) I felt that burn was likely going to be better positioned than normal in this tournament. I also wanted to play a deck that had resiliency but plenty of ability to go crush face and be aggressive from multiple angles. For those who haven't tried my decklist, Delver isn't there to be a Delver as he is in most other delver decks. He is there as a blue Wild Nacatl. Anyways, Burn spells are a great way to not care about what your opponent has on the board. It's a big hammer for a great rate. Drawing multiple Boros Charms feel great, but I can't say the same about every spell in the deck like Vapor Snag or Jeskai Charm. You're simply trying to get the opponent dead as quickly as possible and Boros Charm is a great way to do that.
The double strike actually does come up. It's primarily only going to be in conjunction with Mutagenic Growth or Jeskai Charm for +1 and lifelink tho. The general rule of thumb is if the creature will only hit for 4 power, Boros charm the opponent, but if the creature breaks 5 or more, you'll get better mileage from double strike.
2) Mentor is a very interesting card. To be honest, he really feel more like Pack Rat than Pyro to me. I can't tell you how many times I've won because the tokens had prowess. With this list, Mentor is designed to be a late game card. During the first 1-5 turns of the game, you're really just trying to punk them out with small fast creatures, burn spells, and Snapcaster Mage. Mentor is for when Jund starts to stabilize, etc. 1 Mentor can go wide around a Goyf and Scooze, but Geist can't really do that. The way it feels is that Geist is a 3 mana Rift Bolt. He likely won't survive the next combat, so he's just a one and done kind of card.Mentor can also be helped by the top of your deck as well. Casting cost restrictions are huge, so only 1 white versus white and blue will often determine whether or not you can also cast a burn spell that same turn due to color restrictions.
3) A few simple reasons against Path:
a) Doesn't play well with our sideboard Blood Moons.
b) We have a few tempo based removal spells for when they land a big dude that we cant bolt away.
c) The creatures we care about Pathing are taken care of by other board cards without sacrificing tempo by ramping the opponent's lands. Here's a few dudes for example:
Wurm Coil Engine: We have Smash to Smithereens, so we dont cast anything that doesn't deal damage and will be coming in against Tron anyways. Also Bringing in Skulllcrack for more reach also works as a great Combat trick for swinging into a wurmcoil.
Thragtusk/Obstinate Baloth: the lifegain is the biggest part of what they're doing. Skullcrack is big for these guys. Them having a 4/4 or a 5/3 isn't as scary when they're forced into blocking duty.
Primeval Titan: Path gives them another basic mountain...not what we want to be doing. Jeskai Charm is great when you can shuffle the titan away with the ETB trigger on the stack to search for lands.
4) You can kind of read this as above, but I really don't feel that Geist is a good Modern card. It really hurts my feelings to say that too lol. He just tends to not do enough and he's too hard to protect while your opponent sits on the other side with a 1/1 unblockable infect creature. He's my 2nd favorite card ever (behind Lily of the Veil), but I can't bring myself to play him in Modern.
***Edit***
Thought I was on the last page of the forum. Was super wrong. Anyways, I like what you guys are trying with your decks. Just finished making the entire 75 foiled, so it's really cool to see that some of you are doing it too! I don't see many fastlands in your decks. Any particular reason why? I assume burn is less prevalent in your local metas than mine. I'd likely get crushed with all shocks and fetches lol.
I'd really like to help you out and make suggestions to your sideboard or mainboard if you'd like the input. Is your deck primarily going to be used for FNM level events or premier level play like a GP? Either answer is totally fine. If used for local play, what is your meta like? I have to make changes to my 75 based on if I'm at my shop or somewhere across the country at a GP.
Huge fan of Deflecting Palm. Was secretly the best card in my SB at the last GP.
Also a side question for members of the group out of curiosity, how many people here are GP or SCG Open grinders?
I am with you on Geist here Mazereon, I got into Modern to play Geist, I wanted to build the perfect deck for Geist which is why my list has deviated from where it was by adding in Resto angel etc to abuse Geist more. I do however disagree that against creature heavy decks he isn't that good. As Jeskai we run (in my opinion) the best, most versatile removal spells out there, and we run so many of them. I've said it before that creatures are useless against us, this is why Negate is such a good counter for decks like ours as we don't care as much for creatures. There ar every few games where my opponent can keep 1 creature on board let alone try and block Geist... and then when they do Resto saves him but thats my list specific. On top of this the title of our deck is Tempo, and the burn spells that we use for not only removal but for that reach and Geist is that reach/tempo as well. Even without running 4 geist like my list where I slap another down, to suicide in and get that 4 angel damage through and then hit you with burn still kills quickly. We can be a burn deck if we need to, we can be the aggressor if we need to and we can win the counter wars. Take for example you do not draw Delver or a Swiftspear first 3 turns but instead have Bolt/Helix/Boros Chamrm, by turn 3 alone you can easily get the opponent with over half their life, T1 Bolt, T2 Bolt, Helix, T3 Geist, T4 Attack, Boros Charm, Bolt/Helix.. this path here is an easy 20 damage and Geist himself doesn't need to connect. People do not fear Geist, they fear his angel.
But thats just me Go Geist Go!
No worries Ian.
I would love to run a full set of Spirebuff Canals and 1-2 Seachrome Coast, but these cards are still rather expensive in my area. With only 1 Spirebuff Canal and 4 Inspiring Vantage in my stash, I have to tune my mana base accordingly. Burn strategies in my local meta is still fairly common, that is sometimes why I pack cards like Lightning Helix and Blessed Alliance in my sideboard.
Also, to answer your question about GP/SCG Grinding, I do not reside in the US. There are GPs every year in my Region (in fact my country had a GP this year) but I do not necessary have the time (family, work, yadda yadda) to take part. I however try and play as many games as I can with my play group that plays a mix of competitive and self brew-ish decks.
I am quite a fan of Blessed Alliance. That card is able to create some terrifying blowouts against the Suicide Zoo player when you buff their life (makes Death's Shadow smaller with a chance that it blanks out Temur Battle Rage's Trample trigger) and they have to sacrifice an attacking creature.
Along with Deflecting Palm, Jeskai Prowess Aggro/Tempo has really great sideboard cards.
Geist + Godhead is pretty much a win in the late game or over 2 turns during the mid game. I think Godhead is a severely underplayed card in Modern. I see it as an auto-include in U/W Spirits with Always Watching. Slap it on Spellqueller or Geist and its pretty much game over... but that is another deck. Sorry guys!
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
Thanks!
I have Fumarole for a long time and it always was the one land that saved me when I was flooding out. But I always used 20 lands. Now I am going to try 19 cards and I think the activation cost might be too high.
Since it was the only land out of 20 that (always) comes into play tapped it wasn't a big problem. And of course it was always good against opponents with mass removal.
Of course I'd like to hear your input. I'd love to play this deck at a Modern GP, but there aren't any where I live. -_-
Next Modern GP in Europe is in May 2017! WotC policy regarding Modern events really sucks.
So, atm I can only play Modern FNMs every two weeks at my local store and a Modern GPT every 1 or 2 months...
Good thing is that Modern FNM at my store has 40-50 players and a huge diversity of decks: GR Tron, U Tron, Merfolk, Grixis Delver, Grixis Control, Goblins, Naya Burn, Jund, Abzan, Affinity, Dredge, Valakut, Double Walkers, Humans Aggro, Elves, Eldrazi & Taxes, Bant Eldrazi, Infect, BW Tokens, Lantern, Blue Moon, Nahiri Control--it's all there!
Very good point regarding the sideboard! For this reason I changed Kor Firewalker to Rest for the Weary in the past, and tried Hallowed Moonlight over Grafdigger's Cage/Tormod's Crypt. Like I already wrote, I'll run 1 Surgical Extraction instead of the 2nd Cage. For the same reason I might replace 1 Leyline and Engineered E with Dispel and Blessed Alliance. How does that sound?
Pithing Needle is too versatile to miss upon. I can't even remember all the cards I named with it, but the most important ones are Karn, Lilly, Nahiri, Ezuri, Cranial Plating, Aether Vial and Inkmoth Nexus I guess.
I'll try Elspeth over the 3rd Helix this Friday and see how it goes. I just love her too much not to play her.
I just have to disagree about one thing: I think Ral Zarek is better than Ajani Vengeant. Ral has more tempo. You pay for mana, but you get to untap one land and have Bolt or Spell Pierce ready. At the same time you can tap a blocker and hit with Geist and you're at 5 loyality. He's not as bad as you think
And exactly for these reasons I am running Leylines against Abzan/Jund and I have Sulfur Elemental in my SB to surprise any Lingering Souls fans.
Like I said I don't have any other spells to replace the snags and the enchantment is super fun to land. It's definitely not for every deck in this forum but fits mine decently well, providing it doesn't hurt my mama to much which is where testing is for. I'm also afraid of going down to 25 spells instead of 27 for Delver
If you love the card and it works well in your deck, then definitely play it. We all want to win, but we also want to have fun when we play. It's hard sometimes to have fun and win, but it can be done. Especially if you just playing locally and don't play for a living.
With that said, it's great to have people who give honest and experienced advice. I take everyone's suggestions straight to testing, but in the end I pick what works best for me. There have been a number of times where one of you guys/gals told me something and it really helped me to make a better deck. Recently Ian made a great point about his mana base and it showed me that switching the Seachrome Coasts to Inspiring Vantages was correct. It has worked great since. That's just one of the reasons I love hearing from you guys and what you are currently playing/testing.
Andrewi83 (Ian)- I do not play in any major tournaments, just locally. My brother and I run/own an real estate appraisal company that keeps me pretty busy. In addition the family keeps me pretty busy as well. My life basically consists of Work, Family, Magic, and Golf. I also have a weekly (at minimum) testing group that plays modern. So I get a lot of play/testnig in, but not at the highest levels like yourself. Let us all know when you are traveling to a tournament so we can all give you positive energy and roof for you. Also if your ever in the Indianapolis IN area PM me so I could take you to dinner or give you a free place to stay for the tournament (I would get you a hotel room so you don't have to stay with the family :).)
Stevomat- Ral Zarek is one of my favorite cards of all time! I really hope we go back to ravnica so Ral can get another planeswalker card. I played a "lightning" deck with Ral, Lightning Angel, mantis rider, and Savor the Moment to take extra turns with vigilance creatures and untap mana to kill them quickly. It's not a tier 1 deck, but it was surprisingly good and a ton of fun to play.
As for my current build,
Saheeli Rai continues to impress me. She has been great lately. I think she only fits the aggro/control style builds, especially those with Bedlam Reveler, Snapcaster Mage, and/or Monastery Mentor. However, she has been great on turn 3 doing damage and letting me filter my draws and then turn the corner by doubling a creature.
Deflecting Palm continues to be great out of my sideboard. I know I have been pushing this card for two years now, but if your playing aggro or tempo then you should really give D Palm a try. It is great in the current linear meta. I know most of you are playing a copy or two, but I just wanted to share my results.
Echoing Truth has also been very valuable lately. This one is not widely played, but it has been great for me. Whether it's bouncing lingering souls tokens, two goyfs, two blood moons, an ensnaring bridge, or just a tasigur, it always seems to be a good draw. I have been very tempted to put it into my maindeck.
I took out one Distortion Strike to add a copy of Jeskai Charm to my maindeck. I have been looking for a way to get another copy of Boros Charm in the deck and I have also been wanting another source of life gain in the deck. A lot of you have mentioned this card so I am going to give it a try. If you guys run Jeskai Charm let me know what you think and if there are any interesting ways you have used it.
I think this combination is actually why you don't like Geist of Saint Traft as much: by cutting Path to Exile you're lacking the extra removal spell to keep the opponent's board clean and allow you to keep the Geist alive. I can see your reasons for not including Path, but in that case I would suggest trying out a different removal spell in its place to see if that helps your perception of the Geist. I'll admit that I haven't played the deck at any major tournaments yet but my experience so far is that the Geist allows me to change gears into a more controlling deck which has its win-con already out on the board. To clarify, my game plan is to play the first ~3 turns like a burn deck while aggro decks can't yet handle removal and controlling decks are not really interacting yet and around turn 4-5 I drop a Geist and protect it to deal the last damage. I have yet to come across a deck that could keep a substantial board presence against my version outside of a creature-heavy version of Eldrazi and Taxes. For removal, I run 4x Lightning Bolt, 4x Lightning Helix, 4x Path to Exile and 2x Vapor Snag.
The only other deck I had some trouble keeping the board clear against was Elves but there I'm fine with trading a Geist for 4 damage (from the angel token) and 1-2 of their elves. Elves is one of the reasons I have 2x Anger of the Gods in my sideboard (the others being Merfolk and Dredge mainly).
Let me know what everyone thinks about this card
The holiday seasons slow the discussion down a bit. I am excited for the upcoming ban list updates and for next year's schedule because there are a ton more modern tournaments on the SCG tour and the GP schedule. I assume there will be a ton of discussion after the ban update, aether revolt spoilers, and when the next modern tournament comes up.
I'm a sucker for cool underplayed cards so this is right up my alley. Cloudshift also works well with Snapcaster Mage and Bedlam Reveler. With that said, I still think in most situations Vapor Snag will be superior because of it's utility. Since vapor snag is not good in your meta cloudshift is worth a try. Have you thought of trying Echoing Truth? I have loved this card out of my sideboard because it can bounce problem permanents like Blood Moon and Worship, but is also very good against tokens. The only problem is that it is a 2 CMC costed card.
Cloudshift is an interesting replacement for Emerge Unscathed as well. In a deck with ETB creatures and/or Geist it could work well. However, bouncing would have to be an important part of the gameplan because the card is dead unless you have a target. That'a part of the reason I have been running Slip Through Space instead of Distortion Strike because I can target an opposing player's creatures and, at minimum, cycle the card. I don't mind running 2 or 3 copies of a linear card in my maindeck if it helps with maindeck plan because they can easily be sided out in games 2 and 3 for more matchup oriented cards.
in my meta vapor snag is probably still a better choice, however I am interested to see how the card works in your meta. Keep us posted if you test the card. I am interested to see how it goes.
I agree Cronax. Your analysis really gets to the heart of the argument. Card evaluation in terms of a specific deck really comes down to the style of game you prefer to play and how to play that style best. In the aggressive goblin guide/mantis rider version path and geist don't fit the plan because they are "slower" cards that aren't a tempo plus. However, in the aggro/control version they are great cards.
I play a very similar plan to your plan stated above. It falls under the aggro-control definition more so than tempo in my mind. While it does play a tempo oriented style game at the beginning of the game, the deck can end the game with aggression (reach from burn spells, unblockable spells, etc) or in a more controlling manner. I really like this version because it can side into a very aggressive deck or side into a more tempo/control oriented deck. My personal version can't really side into a true "control" deck because it only plays 18-19 lands, but I don't think my deck would be very good if I had the maindeck split between tempo and control style cards.
I don't have any elves decks in my meta so I haven't put a lot of time into that matchup. I can see how it would be a tough matchup. Anger of Gods would be a house.
I also plan on testing the Slip Through space agon in my deck in place of the snags as it's still strong, I hope to test cloud form to just for shenanigans as with my deck it can save resto angel from a terminate which then in turn saves Geist again during combat of need be, it's a 3 and 4th snapcaster since I only have 2. I think if it works then it will be great but it will depend on how much use you receive from it as o obviously wouldn't want to bounce a Delver and un flip him or decks running swiftspear it would just be a way to save it from targeted removal but make it loose the prowess. Haha should be fun to test it, if it's horrible I won't loose sleep over it.
I think a transformational sideboard could be done even on 18-19 lands if you just add Celestial Colonnade instead of a nonland card. Take out some creatures and side in some more counterspells and there's your control shell. My experience with the deck is that we end up with plenty of land anyways, I rarely end games with less than 6 mana. That may not be enough for a Jeskai Nahiri style control deck but I think Sphinx's Revelation and Cryptic Command along with some stuff like Dispel and/or Negate can do wonders. Snapcaster Mages can stay in, as can Delver of Secrets. Monastery Swiftspear would come out first along with possibly Path to Exile if it has no/too few targets and otherwise I could see dropping some amount of Delvers/Geists to make room for what you're bringing in. The main difference between our more aggressive style and full control style is how they plan to win vs how we plan to win but the shells are similar enough for a transformational plan I feel.
I faced a handful of different decks and I cannot remember all the details so i do not have alot of write up about each match specifically but i will post the few things i do remember (it was a long night playing from 5:30 to Midnight). Decks i faced were: Abzan, Esper Processors, UB Faeries, Bant Eldrazi, Infect, Dredge.
Abzan 2-1: Game 1 was fairly straight forward for Abzan, he would use some sort of THoughtsieze on T1 making me discard but that just wasnt enough, he curved great with T1 Discard into Bob/Goyf/Ooze etc however i kept his board clear. Once I landed Geist i got a shot in and he dropped Seige Rhino, I slapped Steel of the Godhead on Geist the following turn and he couldn't keep up.
Game 2: I just drew everything to late, i had land, i had removal but i didn't draw my first Delver until T5, by this point it was long over due, i put up a fight and got him down to 5or6 still but he eventually just out paced me
Game 3: I just controlled this game from the start, I bolted his creatures and Remand / Snap remanded his spells. I again won this match with an enchanted Geist.
Esper Processors 0-3: Again i just cannot win this match up.. I did make 1 mistake which was that i dropped Elspeth with Geist on board trying to bait out a counter or spell queller so i could use my enchantment the next turn but he didn't have a countersepll had I dropped the enchantment instead i would of won. one game was just terrible though, i kept a very poor hand (bad mistake) to which i had 1 land and kept drawing spells i couldnt cast, ended up with 2 Geist in hand and had to discard so i discarded a geist... He hit me with Surgical extraction for that blunder. Another game he had ashiok out and kept exiling my stuff, eventually exiled both my snaps, 1 delver, 1 geist and 1 angel. Snaps allowed him to re-path my non geist creatures and I just couldn't get through.
UB Faeries 3-0: We played a 3rd game while waiting for matches to finish.
Game 1: I got my spells out quickly knowing i needed to get under his counter faeries and was able to out pace him with Delver and Geist.
Game 2: he got the point where he had to just block with bitterblossom faeries, I had Delver, Angel and Geist all on board, kept swinging in with my Angel and Delver forcing him to block.. every other creature he played either was on blocking duty or got bolted/helixed
Game 3: He got land screwed, ended up with only 2 Bitterblossoms on board ( I was going to cryptic his the turn before but i allowed the second to land) I essentially just kept swinging with Angel again and let Bitter Blossom kill him.
Infect 2-1: Game 1: His dropped elf T1 to which i bolted immediately, Hirearch got Helixed and i landed Delver and Geist. I unfortunatley just got beat down by a Nexus in the end as i forgot it had flying and left Geist back on blocking duty..
Game 2: Sideboarded (IN: 2x Negate, 1 Spell Pierce, 1 Dispel, 2 Surgical Extraction 1 Blessed Alliance) This was his nightmare, my opening hand consisted of 2x Path, 2x Bolt, 1 Spell Pierce, 2x Land. Every creature he played died, he even probed me to see the spells and try and play around it by forcign me to play certain spells... it didn't matter as i drew into a Cryptic and countered a Hirearch and bounced his Nexus after he played a land for turn.
Game 3: Similart to Game 2, just removed everything he had except i had 2 flipped delvers by T3
Bant Eldrazi 2-0: I do not remember this one sorry guys.. what i do recall is he got no Thougt-Knot Seer, i pathed every threat and Geist with Steel won the game. I did make 1 mistake though in forgetting that Drowner of hope can tap my creatures so i tapped out for Elspeth to make Gesit big to deal the last 12 points of damage (geist and delver on board) but he tapped down my delver.. I should of pathed Drowner instead of Elspeth.
Dredge 1-2: Game 1: I maintained control, bolting, pathing, helixing everything i could outside of Nacromebas, this kept me with enough life (thank you helix) and by time i dropped Godhead on Geist it was over, i gained ot much life per 2
Game 2/3: these were almost Identical, he exploded early and i drew little removal. I did deal with a couple of his Prized Amalgams and got my enchanted Geist again but it was to late.
I did face the Esper Processors deck again but vs someone who doesn't know hwo to use it properly so i ended up stomping him so i don't count this match same goes with the matches we had intermitent of other games finishing. All in All 4-2 for the night
I am happy with the Enchantment and never found that only 25 spells hurt my Delver.. the times when he didnt flip early i drew creature land or elspeth so even if those had been Snags he still wouldn't have flipped. It is a very underplayed card in modern but i found it a very good way of getting in extra damage unblocked instead of a 1 time use with the others... Also 4 life per turn is nothing to laugh at. The rest of the deck remained as smooth as it was before, Delver is still the best T1 play (outside of bolting infect creatures) and Resto Angel makes for a big threat. I am happy with where my deck is now until WoTC decides to release some better counter magic, or 1cmc spells etc that fit my deck.
1 Card that has come up in speculation thought is my Gitaxian Probes. I used them in the games but the information is less valuable i think with Geist in play.. If i face something with Flash or an Aether vial its worth knowing their hand in case they flash in to block but once the enchantments lands you cannot block anymore. I currently do not have plans of removing this card as it is still very strong and makes for sideboard fodder but out of the entire deck this would be the card I say is the least effective and would consider replacing for something better or more control if i need to (i actually sided all of these out against Infect)
I see how we can get to different conclusions on Geist. While Path would certainly help to keep the board clear, I can't help but feel that Path just isn't proactive enough, primarily due to the fact that you can't throw a Path at somebody's face to end the game. The tempo that we will typically rely on to win is based on the fact that we usually get to cast mulitple spells per turn before our opponent does. Ramping our opponent with a spell pushes them towards stabilizing and turning the corner against us, even though it likely would get rid of a creature they spent an entire turn on to cast during the early game. Totally ok to disagree.
As for the Cronax's mentioning of colonnade, I don't feel that it's where you'd want to be when only playing 18 or 19 lands. It seems that if you're running that few, it's because you typically don't want to see them more than you absolutely have to. Even at 20 lands, I'd be nervous about playing it with the fact that it ETB tapped and that it takes a very high cost to turn on. If we ever did swing with it, it'd very likely be the only thing we did for not only our turn, but the opponent's as well and I can't help but to feel that's not where you want to be. I'd advise against it from a deckbuilding standpoint, but at least you aren't trying to play a black and green land in that slot lol.
Nice deck, @Curd! LOVE the bolts. How have you liked Saheeli Rai? Coiuld see it being interesting with Snapcaster. When I get the chance, I'll upload pics of mine. Jeskai Charm makes for a GORGEOUS foil, amirite?
If you're on Geist, you should play Essence Flux. It's almost the exact same card, but can make Geist stronger if he's the card you blink.
Videos
First 2 games were a bit ugly. Last few games were atypical especially against Suicide Zoo and U/R Thing (easy games).
He also beat Ad Nausum so break out your note pads lads!
I typically stay away from Goblin Guide because of situations highlighted in the 1st game which is why I stick to Delver of Secrets. His mana base also puts him at an extreme disadvantage against Burn, again highlighted in his 1st Game.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo