I was able to test the deck agian versus Grixis Control, Jund and Naya Zoo and picked up a few things you guys mentioned.
Probably the deck just hates me but I am still getting "flooded" about 60+% of my games, although I am just running 18 lands, with 8 of them being Fetches, 4 shocks, 3 basics, 1 check land, 1 Eiganjo Castle which I want to stick with and with a man land.
How have the fastlands performed in your lists, I can see them saving us a few points of life. Are they just strictly better then the checklands? Drawing them after your 3rd land is kind of frustrating, in more tempo orriented builds I suppose.
Wandering Fumarole is pretty nice, I figured that playing around the Come into play tapped restriction is fairly easy and didnt notice a major drawback of playing it in the first place.
Being bolt prove is nice too and against grindy match ups (with my list at least) it can potentially give me the reach I need to finish the job if I cant find a Snap, reveler, or bolt-effect.
My second addition was Saheeli Rai and I really have to thank you CurdBros for pointing out her potential. Sadly I didnt draw her against jund but against grixis and zoo. And she did so much work!
Against grixis she just did all the work the 2 games I played her. She did +5 damage, setting up my draws for the kill with helices and bolts. The other game it was pretty much the same but I lost due to me being to greedy, tapping out for the attack with fumarole.
Versus Zoo I drew her in the last game. I was able to Anger of the Gods twice and live long enough to get her out, smoothing out my draws (I even could have ulted her). Drawing a Bedlam Reveler was just nuts at that point and I drew 6 cards and 3 on the following turn.
Reveler is just overperfoming at this point and is a MVP candidate for sure, thats why I included a second copy, same goes for Geist as he just represents such a fast clock. Reveler being basically immune to Ugin, IoK and many other conditional removal spells as you guys mentioned is a great point as well!
I am still sticking with my lavamancer though, with 8 fetches and some creatures I think its fine to still play him without getting into to much trouble and later in the game we should have plenty of instants and sorceries in our GY that it shouldnt matter anymore.
Regarding PtE. In the more aggro versions of the deck it is reasonable to play it, it just is the best removal spell in modern period, as CurdBros already mentioned.
Playing a slightly more control/tempo-orriented list (I feel like my list is getting more and more midrangy), I myself am on the fence off maybe adding one to the sideboard, for having a reliable way of dealing with wurmcoil and finks, even though vapor snag isnt that bad against wurmcoil.
I played with Surgical against Grixis and it was pretty ok, nothing special though.
Having information about their hand and deck after sideboarding is awesome and taking a Tasigur or Angler is very good.
If you want to play it 1 slot in the SB is fine i guess.
I think I just havent had MUs where I could make use of the cards full potential, like any combo related deck, most certanly dredge, Jeskai harbinger.
@CurdBros:
Your idea of making a weekly topic discussions is pretty sweet!
I am running a more tempo/controlish deck and exaclty as you I figured that ~18 lands are just perfect.
My lands are as follows:
8 Fetches
4 Shocks
3 Basics
1 man land Wandering Fumarole
1 utility land Eiganjo castle
1 check land Sulfur Falls
As i mentioned earlier in my post I would love to here your oppinions on the fast lands, I really want to include 2 off them for saving some life in the earyl stages of the game.
Most likely I would cut 1 basic mountain and the sulfur falls.
Thanks for responding to the weekly topic! I have a good one for next week already lined up. I always like seeing the slight differences in mana bases. Having the wrong manabase for each persons individual decks can cause major problems so it's always nice to get experience from other players. I think the fastlands are a must for anyone running 19 or fewer lands. I am still working on getting the right number into my deck. I think 2-3 is correct at this point. I am going to give Sulfur Falls another chance in my deck. I have missed it. I don't know what land to remove yet, but I will probably remove a fast land because I have noticed them coming into play tapped too often after turn 3. I will keep you posted on how my search for the correct mana base continues, but I am going to try 3 fastlands, 4 shocks, 3 basics, 1 buddy/check, and 7 fetchlands (at 18 lands).
I totally agree about Saheeli Rai. She has really surprised me. She is just great in the grindy matchups and also in the matchups where we become the control player. If you double a Bedlam Reveler the game is just over.
I haven't brought myself to play a Wandering Fumarole. I had a Faerie Conclave for awhile, but since I have gone more aggro I can't play come into tapped lands very easily. I do think if your deck is more midrangey and/or if your meta is full of midrange decks like jund and abzan then the manlands are a good choice.
Thanks for posting the awesome notes Mazeron
Also thank you Need_More_DPS for posting the Hoogland Jeskai Aggro Test videos. He speaks very highly of the deck so I will be interested to see if he thinks it's good enough to bring this weekend. I really hope he does. One thing to note is that he only played pre-boarded games. While typical delver decks get much better post board, burn style decks typically are less favored post board. The deck he was practicing is much closer to a burn deck than it is a tempo or delver style deck. It is expected that a burn style deck would win 60%+ of preboarded games, but when the opponenet brings in their life gain spells and removal it becomes much different. With that said, the deck has tested very well so far. If the deck is half as good post board as it is preboarded it will do very well this weekend. It's also a great base to start from for anyone who want to get into jeskai prowess.
At minimum I hope someone brings it this weekend and does well on camera. It about time jeskai prowess got some camera time!
I was able to test the deck agian versus Grixis Control, Jund and Naya Zoo and picked up a few things you guys mentioned.
Probably the deck just hates me but I am still getting "flooded" about 60+% of my games, although I am just running 18 lands, with 8 of them being Fetches, 4 shocks, 3 basics, 1 check land, 1 Eiganjo Castle which I want to stick with and with a man land.
How have the fastlands performed in your lists, I can see them saving us a few points of life. Are they just strictly better then the checklands? Drawing them after your 3rd land is kind of frustrating, in more tempo orriented builds I suppose.
Wandering Fumarole is pretty nice, I figured that playing around the Come into play tapped restriction is fairly easy and didnt notice a major drawback of playing it in the first place.
Being bolt prove is nice too and against grindy match ups (with my list at least) it can potentially give me the reach I need to finish the job if I cant find a Snap, reveler, or bolt-effect.
My second addition was Saheeli Rai and I really have to thank you CurdBros for pointing out her potential. Sadly I didnt draw her against jund but against grixis and zoo. And she did so much work!
Against grixis she just did all the work the 2 games I played her. She did +5 damage, setting up my draws for the kill with helices and bolts. The other game it was pretty much the same but I lost due to me being to greedy, tapping out for the attack with fumarole.
Versus Zoo I drew her in the last game. I was able to Anger of the Gods twice and live long enough to get her out, smoothing out my draws (I even could have ulted her). Drawing a Bedlam Reveler was just nuts at that point and I drew 6 cards and 3 on the following turn.
Reveler is just overperfoming at this point and is a MVP candidate for sure, thats why I included a second copy, same goes for Geist as he just represents such a fast clock. Reveler being basically immune to Ugin, IoK and many other conditional removal spells as you guys mentioned is a great point as well!
I am still sticking with my lavamancer though, with 8 fetches and some creatures I think its fine to still play him without getting into to much trouble and later in the game we should have plenty of instants and sorceries in our GY that it shouldnt matter anymore.
Regarding PtE. In the more aggro versions of the deck it is reasonable to play it, it just is the best removal spell in modern period, as CurdBros already mentioned.
Playing a slightly more control/tempo-orriented list (I feel like my list is getting more and more midrangy), I myself am on the fence off maybe adding one to the sideboard, for having a reliable way of dealing with wurmcoil and finks, even though vapor snag isnt that bad against wurmcoil.
I played with Surgical against Grixis and it was pretty ok, nothing special though.
Having information about their hand and deck after sideboarding is awesome and taking a Tasigur or Angler is very good.
If you want to play it 1 slot in the SB is fine i guess.
I think I just havent had MUs where I could make use of the cards full potential, like any combo related deck, most certanly dredge, Jeskai harbinger.
@CurdBros:
Your idea of making a weekly topic discussions is pretty sweet!
I am running a more tempo/controlish deck and exaclty as you I figured that ~18 lands are just perfect.
My lands are as follows:
8 Fetches
4 Shocks
3 Basics
1 man land Wandering Fumarole
1 utility land Eiganjo castle
1 check land Sulfur Falls
As i mentioned earlier in my post I would love to here your oppinions on the fast lands, I really want to include 2 off them for saving some life in the earyl stages of the game.
Most likely I would cut 1 basic mountain and the sulfur falls.
Thanks for responding to the weekly topic! I have a good one for next week already lined up. I always like seeing the slight differences in mana bases. Having the wrong manabase for each persons individual decks can cause major problems so it's always nice to get experience from other players. I think the fastlands are a must for anyone running 19 or fewer lands. I am still working on getting the right number into my deck. I think 2-3 is correct at this point. I am going to give Sulfur Falls another chance in my deck. I have missed it. I don't know what land to remove yet, but I will probably remove a fast land because I have noticed them coming into play tapped too often after turn 3. I will keep you posted on how my search for the correct mana base continues, but I am going to try 3 fastlands, 4 shocks, 3 basics, 1 buddy/check, and 7 fetchlands (at 18 lands).
I totally agree about Saheeli Rai. She has really surprised me. She is just great in the grindy matchups and also in the matchups where we become the control player. If you double a Bedlam Reveler the game is just over.
I haven't brought myself to play a Wandering Fumarole. I had a Faerie Conclave for awhile, but since I have gone more aggro I can't play come into tapped lands very easily. I do think if your deck is more midrangey and/or if your meta is full of midrange decks like jund and abzan then the manlands are a good choice.
Thanks for posting the awesome notes Mazeron
Also thank you Need_More_DPS for posting the Hoogland Jeskai Aggro Test videos. He speaks very highly of the deck so I will be interested to see if he thinks it's good enough to bring this weekend. I really hope he does. One thing to note is that he only played pre-boarded games. While typical delver decks get much better post board, burn style decks typically are less favored post board. The deck he was practicing is much closer to a burn deck than it is a tempo or delver style deck. It is expected that a burn style deck would win 60%+ of preboarded games, but when the opponenet brings in their life gain spells and removal it becomes much different. With that said, the deck has tested very well so far. If the deck is half as good post board as it is preboarded it will do very well this weekend. It's also a great base to start from for anyone who want to get into jeskai prowess.
At minimum I hope someone brings it this weekend and does well on camera. It about time jeskai prowess got some camera time!
I am very curious on the next topic!
At first I was very sceptical towards saheeli but her first 2 abilities are all this deck wants, in some variants Chandra, Torch of Defiance might be better, because a shock or even something better like a helix on a +1 is pretty bonkers, but it gets worse the more counterspells we play and thats why I will stick with saheeli.
If eiganjo wasnt as good, or at least would not synergize so well with GoST I would go with 2 fastlands in an instant. But as you said, are the 3 dmg of life we do not lose really worth a land that comes into play after turn 4? I guess there are enough versions of the deck where a 4th land isnt needed, but I would rather take 3 more damage and be able to protect my threat against removal or a counterspell.
Please keep me updated on this one!
What are your thoughts on Blessed alliance in general, I can see it being a blow out against a number of decks and the longer a game goes, the better it gets.
Has anyone tried it yet? I would love some feedback on this one.
On the weekly Topic for lands, I have been really digging the land base i am running currently (everyone is different so i wont specific the exact card name). Currently I am running:
7 Fetch
4 Shock
2 Fast Lands
1 Buddy Land
4 Basics
I have had large amounts of success with this as with only 2 Fast lands i usually get 1 or both before T3 (really great) or by time i do get them where they would be tapped it is in the long games and im already sitting at 4+ mana so it doesn't overly hinder me. My Buddy land is great, specifically i use the one that uses my least color mana and find it is nice, It is my late game land to avoid some damage from shocks and such should it go that far. If it is my only land in my opening then i wont keep it but generally i do not keep 1 land hands unless they have Delver and some Cantrips in them anyway. I used to run 8 fetch lands and 5 shocks.. this was just really painful and made for alot of close games, the addition of the fast lands is what caused me to drop those down as i think they are better then buddy lands. 7 Fetch also seems to be just right, i have enough to get all 4 shocks and 3 basics or vice versa, it also makes the deck down to playing practically 49 cards (7 fetch and 4 Probes) so i see what i need more often and my land base doesnt kill me. 4 Basics i believe is essential (atleast in my meta) as LD is a thing, Blood Moon is a thing, and with 4 mana i can guarantee casting everything in my deck (including Chandra)
@Mazereon i think i would disagree about Chandra and counterspells. Chandra is a late game, i run 1 of so i dont see her hit play till T4 if im lucky (obviously) but it is later normally. I find that by time i get her later Counterspells are not as prevalent as we do not have any true hard counters. late game if i am Remanding your spell your recasting it, if i played Leak your paying for it, Spell Pierce your paying for it so at this stage in the game my Counterspells just make you waste your mana and i still have a threat to deal with. With chandra on the board those counterspells become deck thinning spells that shock my opponent, i can +1 to see a Remand on T6 and go "yup, you can take that to the face". On the flip side if you play Monastery Swiftspear or even Bedlam Reveler T6 you reveal Remand, cast a 1 mana spell, remand it, recast it, 3 prowess triggers, draw a card, swing for X dmg.. also a valuable thing. Do not discredit her other +1 for it is amazing. I played a game where i had her on the field, i cast Lightning bolt, Lightning Helix, +1 to make 2 red mana, cast Bedlam Reveler for 2R, draw my 3 and cast another Lightning Bolt, this here is more powerful then Bolt - Snap - Bolt as i just hit you for 9 dmg, refilled my hand, gained 3 life and have a huge threat on the board. Chandras minus is also still good late game to, 4dmg to a Tarmygoyf, Siege Rhino, Tasigur.. it may not kill the last 2 but now they are boltable. Also (and this doesn't happen often) but i have Ultimate her... that is a god play, there is no feasable way you should loose at this point... Cast bolt.. oh you countered it? well still 5dmg as it is on cast not resolution.
As for Saheeli Rai i run her in my build as well and she is also freaking amazing.. I cannot bear myself to cut either yet. Using Saheeli Rai to have 3 Flipped Delver on the field is pretty insane, using her to make a Pyromancer and have endless tokens.. phenomenal... and copying a Bedlam Reveler to refill again and swing with 2 big prowess creatures... Delicious.
He is a bit more expensive at 4 mana (but can untap a land to effectively cost 3) and I find his abilities less conditional and more generally useful (tap a blocker and untap a land or bolt a creature/opponent) and the Ultimate is also much more relevant.
He is also more difficult to kill due to higher loyalty and the ability to bolt an opposing creature.
I was able to test the deck agian versus Grixis Control, Jund and Naya Zoo and picked up a few things you guys mentioned.
Probably the deck just hates me but I am still getting "flooded" about 60+% of my games, although I am just running 18 lands, with 8 of them being Fetches, 4 shocks, 3 basics, 1 check land, 1 Eiganjo Castle which I want to stick with and with a man land.
How have the fastlands performed in your lists, I can see them saving us a few points of life. Are they just strictly better then the checklands? Drawing them after your 3rd land is kind of frustrating, in more tempo orriented builds I suppose.
Wandering Fumarole is pretty nice, I figured that playing around the Come into play tapped restriction is fairly easy and didnt notice a major drawback of playing it in the first place.
Being bolt prove is nice too and against grindy match ups (with my list at least) it can potentially give me the reach I need to finish the job if I cant find a Snap, reveler, or bolt-effect.
My second addition was Saheeli Rai and I really have to thank you CurdBros for pointing out her potential. Sadly I didnt draw her against jund but against grixis and zoo. And she did so much work!
Against grixis she just did all the work the 2 games I played her. She did +5 damage, setting up my draws for the kill with helices and bolts. The other game it was pretty much the same but I lost due to me being to greedy, tapping out for the attack with fumarole.
Versus Zoo I drew her in the last game. I was able to Anger of the Gods twice and live long enough to get her out, smoothing out my draws (I even could have ulted her). Drawing a Bedlam Reveler was just nuts at that point and I drew 6 cards and 3 on the following turn.
Reveler is just overperfoming at this point and is a MVP candidate for sure, thats why I included a second copy, same goes for Geist as he just represents such a fast clock. Reveler being basically immune to Ugin, IoK and many other conditional removal spells as you guys mentioned is a great point as well!
I am still sticking with my lavamancer though, with 8 fetches and some creatures I think its fine to still play him without getting into to much trouble and later in the game we should have plenty of instants and sorceries in our GY that it shouldnt matter anymore.
Regarding PtE. In the more aggro versions of the deck it is reasonable to play it, it just is the best removal spell in modern period, as CurdBros already mentioned.
Playing a slightly more control/tempo-orriented list (I feel like my list is getting more and more midrangy), I myself am on the fence off maybe adding one to the sideboard, for having a reliable way of dealing with wurmcoil and finks, even though vapor snag isnt that bad against wurmcoil.
I played with Surgical against Grixis and it was pretty ok, nothing special though.
Having information about their hand and deck after sideboarding is awesome and taking a Tasigur or Angler is very good.
If you want to play it 1 slot in the SB is fine i guess.
I think I just havent had MUs where I could make use of the cards full potential, like any combo related deck, most certanly dredge, Jeskai harbinger.
@CurdBros:
Your idea of making a weekly topic discussions is pretty sweet!
I am running a more tempo/controlish deck and exaclty as you I figured that ~18 lands are just perfect.
My lands are as follows:
8 Fetches
4 Shocks
3 Basics
1 man land Wandering Fumarole
1 utility land Eiganjo castle
1 check land Sulfur Falls
As i mentioned earlier in my post I would love to here your oppinions on the fast lands, I really want to include 2 off them for saving some life in the earyl stages of the game.
Most likely I would cut 1 basic mountain and the sulfur falls.
Thanks for responding to the weekly topic! I have a good one for next week already lined up. I always like seeing the slight differences in mana bases. Having the wrong manabase for each persons individual decks can cause major problems so it's always nice to get experience from other players. I think the fastlands are a must for anyone running 19 or fewer lands. I am still working on getting the right number into my deck. I think 2-3 is correct at this point. I am going to give Sulfur Falls another chance in my deck. I have missed it. I don't know what land to remove yet, but I will probably remove a fast land because I have noticed them coming into play tapped too often after turn 3. I will keep you posted on how my search for the correct mana base continues, but I am going to try 3 fastlands, 4 shocks, 3 basics, 1 buddy/check, and 7 fetchlands (at 18 lands).
I totally agree about Saheeli Rai. She has really surprised me. She is just great in the grindy matchups and also in the matchups where we become the control player. If you double a Bedlam Reveler the game is just over.
I haven't brought myself to play a Wandering Fumarole. I had a Faerie Conclave for awhile, but since I have gone more aggro I can't play come into tapped lands very easily. I do think if your deck is more midrangey and/or if your meta is full of midrange decks like jund and abzan then the manlands are a good choice.
Thanks for posting the awesome notes Mazeron
Also thank you Need_More_DPS for posting the Hoogland Jeskai Aggro Test videos. He speaks very highly of the deck so I will be interested to see if he thinks it's good enough to bring this weekend. I really hope he does. One thing to note is that he only played pre-boarded games. While typical delver decks get much better post board, burn style decks typically are less favored post board. The deck he was practicing is much closer to a burn deck than it is a tempo or delver style deck. It is expected that a burn style deck would win 60%+ of preboarded games, but when the opponenet brings in their life gain spells and removal it becomes much different. With that said, the deck has tested very well so far. If the deck is half as good post board as it is preboarded it will do very well this weekend. It's also a great base to start from for anyone who want to get into jeskai prowess.
At minimum I hope someone brings it this weekend and does well on camera. It about time jeskai prowess got some camera time!
I am very curious on the next topic!
At first I was very sceptical towards saheeli but her first 2 abilities are all this deck wants, in some variants Chandra, Torch of Defiance might be better, because a shock or even something better like a helix on a +1 is pretty bonkers, but it gets worse the more counterspells we play and thats why I will stick with saheeli.
If eiganjo wasnt as good, or at least would not synergize so well with GoST I would go with 2 fastlands in an instant. But as you said, are the 3 dmg of life we do not lose really worth a land that comes into play after turn 4? I guess there are enough versions of the deck where a 4th land isnt needed, but I would rather take 3 more damage and be able to protect my threat against removal or a counterspell.
Please keep me updated on this one!
What are your thoughts on Blessed alliance in general, I can see it being a blow out against a number of decks and the longer a game goes, the better it gets.
Has anyone tried it yet? I would love some feedback on this one.
On the weekly Topic for lands, I have been really digging the land base i am running currently (everyone is different so i wont specific the exact card name). Currently I am running:
7 Fetch
4 Shock
2 Fast Lands
1 Buddy Land
4 Basics
I have had large amounts of success with this as with only 2 Fast lands i usually get 1 or both before T3 (really great) or by time i do get them where they would be tapped it is in the long games and im already sitting at 4+ mana so it doesn't overly hinder me. My Buddy land is great, specifically i use the one that uses my least color mana and find it is nice, It is my late game land to avoid some damage from shocks and such should it go that far. If it is my only land in my opening then i wont keep it but generally i do not keep 1 land hands unless they have Delver and some Cantrips in them anyway. I used to run 8 fetch lands and 5 shocks.. this was just really painful and made for alot of close games, the addition of the fast lands is what caused me to drop those down as i think they are better then buddy lands. 7 Fetch also seems to be just right, i have enough to get all 4 shocks and 3 basics or vice versa, it also makes the deck down to playing practically 49 cards (7 fetch and 4 Probes) so i see what i need more often and my land base doesnt kill me. 4 Basics i believe is essential (atleast in my meta) as LD is a thing, Blood Moon is a thing, and with 4 mana i can guarantee casting everything in my deck (including Chandra)
@Mazereon i think i would disagree about Chandra and counterspells. Chandra is a late game, i run 1 of so i dont see her hit play till T4 if im lucky (obviously) but it is later normally. I find that by time i get her later Counterspells are not as prevalent as we do not have any true hard counters. late game if i am Remanding your spell your recasting it, if i played Leak your paying for it, Spell Pierce your paying for it so at this stage in the game my Counterspells just make you waste your mana and i still have a threat to deal with. With chandra on the board those counterspells become deck thinning spells that shock my opponent, i can +1 to see a Remand on T6 and go "yup, you can take that to the face". On the flip side if you play Monastery Swiftspear or even Bedlam Reveler T6 you reveal Remand, cast a 1 mana spell, remand it, recast it, 3 prowess triggers, draw a card, swing for X dmg.. also a valuable thing. Do not discredit her other +1 for it is amazing. I played a game where i had her on the field, i cast Lightning bolt, Lightning Helix, +1 to make 2 red mana, cast Bedlam Reveler for 2R, draw my 3 and cast another Lightning Bolt, this here is more powerful then Bolt - Snap - Bolt as i just hit you for 9 dmg, refilled my hand, gained 3 life and have a huge threat on the board. Chandras minus is also still good late game to, 4dmg to a Tarmygoyf, Siege Rhino, Tasigur.. it may not kill the last 2 but now they are boltable. Also (and this doesn't happen often) but i have Ultimate her... that is a god play, there is no feasable way you should loose at this point... Cast bolt.. oh you countered it? well still 5dmg as it is on cast not resolution.
As for Saheeli Rai i run her in my build as well and she is also freaking amazing.. I cannot bear myself to cut either yet. Using Saheeli Rai to have 3 Flipped Delver on the field is pretty insane, using her to make a Pyromancer and have endless tokens.. phenomenal... and copying a Bedlam Reveler to refill again and swing with 2 big prowess creatures... Delicious.
Spell Snare might go into my Sideboard im not sure, if i did i would probably up my Helix count to 4 or add back in 1 Boros Charm.
You guys have definitely convinced me to add a buddy land back into my deck. I think I am going to try your exact mana base configuration.
I think the Chandra argument really just depends on the deck your running. If your running a Monastery Swiftspear deck then Chandra probably isn't great because your curve is low and your trying to force through damage early. If your running a Young Pyromancer deck you can play a slightly longer game making all of Chandra's abilities more valuable. I personally haven't had much luck with her, but I run a swiftspear deck. I can't even imagine having a Saheeli Rai and Chandra at once. It would be amazing and I assume it's hard to lose at that point. I do think that both Chandra, Pyromaster and Chandra, Torch of Defiance are great choices for the top end of decks running 19+ lands.
He is a bit more expensive at 4 mana (but can untap a land to effectively cost 3) and I find his abilities less conditional and more generally useful (tap a blocker and untap a land or bolt a creature/opponent) and the Ultimate is also much more relevant.
He is also more difficult to kill due to higher loyalty and the ability to bolt an opposing creature.
Good call D90Dennis. I haven't thought about Ral Zarek for awhile. My bro and I were talking about the rumor that guy put out awhile ago that we would go Kaladesh, Amonket, and then back to Ravnica. He is two for two right now so I am pretty confident that we will be returning to Ravnica after Amonket. I really hope they do another Ral Zarek (hopefully a 3 CMC walker again, but I doubt it with Saheeli).
As for the current Ral, I just hate that he goes down to 2 loyalty after the bolt. He doesn't reall offer any type of card advantage either so he never really fit my main gameplan and didn't offer what my late game was lacking. I did run him in my very old walkers extra turns deck, but haven't played him since. I will definitely be getting him out of the box and testing him out. I don't make any final decisions unless I test the card in my actual deck. I have had cards I thought I would love that just bombed and cards that I thought would be just ok that worked out great. To be honest, I thought Bedlam Reveler would be good, but I never thought he would be soo great.
Anyone test Ral in the deck yet?
Mazeron- I love Blessed Alliance. It's great against aggro decks and big creature decks. With it and Deflecting Palm the aggro players get very tilted :).
**I am also thinking about starting a Topic of the Week each Monday if you all think it's a good idea. It would basically be an in-depth discussion on a specific card or topic each week (examples- Geist in a prowess build, Aggro/Tempo, Sideboard strategy for Jund, etc). Even though it's Tuesday I will start this week with topic #1 and probably the biggest topic we could discuss which is Mana Base build. **
Topic of the week #1- What do you think the best manabase make up for an aggro deck, an aggro/control deck, or a midrange prowess build for jeskai prowess?
-Pick whichever you are currently playing (aggro,aggro/cntl, tempo and discuss what you think. I will start:
I play aggro/control- I think my personal experience has shown that somewhere between 18-19 lands is best for aggro/control. I have found that 4 CMC spells are tough to play at only 18-19 lands and I try to keep the 3 CMC spells to between 3-5 at most. Here is what I have found to be best
Which ones chosen depend on the weight of each color in your deck
I personally run 8 fetches, 3 basics, 4 shocks, and 3 fast lands. I am also going to try a build of 5 fast lands, 6 fetches, 4 shocks, and 3 basics since the posting of the recent 5-0 league deck. I hope this helps me avoid life loss.
Apologies for not responding to this earlier!
I think weekly or fortnightly discussion topics is a great idea!
Generally I think Jeskai builds are U/R so they will lean on
3 - 4 Spirebluff Canal
1 - 2 Seachrome Coast
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarns (or because of budget reasons off colour fetches like Bloodstained Mire and Wooded Foothills for Red)
2 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
4 - 6 Basics (Island and Mountain as primary. Plains as secondary)
for decks running 20 and above landcount:
1 Wandering Fumarole (not really favorable because high activation cost)
1 - 2 Celestial Colonnade (needs high land count 23+)
1 Needle Spires (not really favorable because high activation cost)
1 Faerie Conclave (has evasion! low activation cost. contributes to blue mana count. only cons is CIP tapped and produces only 1 type of mana)
My builds generally do not need filter lands, but if you guys end up running cards like Cryptic Command or cards that need double coloured mana, you would want to look into those.
Alright guys, here is my write up from last night! Ended 1-2
Round 1: Abzan Coco
----Game 1: I keep a hand with some gas but no creatures, and i just keep drawing redraw spells like Visions and Probe, but no freaking creature lol He starts kinda slow, plays Birds of Paradise into Kin-tree Spirit, and lands Viscera Seer soon after. Im holding up my 2 mana burn spells, since I dont have a 3rd land I dont wanna tap out and miss opportunity for spell pierce on his coco, which I now have 2 in my hand, so i tap some shots with the spirit and the seer, until finally he tries coco, which eats spell pierce with no remaining mana for him. Now i start to lean into aggression. I finally get a few creatures, and start applying pressure delver and swifty, and v clique revealing 2 lands for him, He tries another coco soon after, only to eat another spell pierce, (thank you Robert Holt) and swing in for over 10 damage on the next turn.
Side out- 1 slip through space, 1 boros charm
side In- 1 anger of the gods, 1 enginnered Ex.
Game 2: didnt last long. Also kept a no creature hand, with some removal and draw. This game he goes nuts, 2 voice of R, I see 2 kitchen finks, wall of roots, and 2 coco's while im stuck on 2 lands, and he runs me over, soon to get the combo.
Game 3:
Straight burn, best hand so far. I brought in the Geist here, taking out a lightning helix and a slip through space (i think). My hand was 2 delver, 1 swift, 1 geist, 1 bolt, 1 land. I play delver first, doesnt flip this turn but reveals a land so im ok with that, play delver and I bolt his Birds. He pays 2 life to play his viscera seer, then both my delver flips, and he dies soon after,
1-0
Round 2: Scapeshift.... **** i wish i had unsubstantiate
Game 1
I keep an ok hand, and his t1 search reveals exactly what is going on lol he bolts a couple of delvers before they flip, and i ping him here and there with a few burn spells waiting for a better creature. i finally draw some action with a v clique and 2 swiftys., the v clique is very timely since i ripped his scapeshift from his hand just in time. Then kill him on the following turn with a bolt + attackers, next turn he would have drawn scapeshift and won.
i have no clue what i did because i feel like i have nothing for the match up, ithink i brought in geist just to try to clock him faster.
Game 2
An anger of the gods blows me out when i have a very explosive start with 2 swiftys and some draw stuff fueling prowess for a few turns. After the anger i cant find anymore creatures and he blows me away with a titan and valakuts.
Game 3
I draw 6 land this game, and i path'ed an early obstinate baloth, and that was stupid, since 2 turns later he finished me off with a titan, next time, leave the damn thing alone. live and learn
1-1
Round 3: Bant Eldrazi
Game 1 I mulligan to 5 (hand 7 and 6 had no land) with keping a 1 lander, and keepin a land at the top. he does what eldrazi does, and just destroys me honestly, TKS ,2 bolts for any little creatures i draw, and my reality is soon smashed lol
-side- Chandra pyromaster, bedlam, stony silence (he played at least 2 of the g/r tap artifact things so i figured it couldnt hurt) 2 slips are out, a helix and a charm.
Game 2: Chandra wins me this game hands down. Its very grindy, we both draw stuff, answer each others stuff, i see a ratchet bomb, but i have stony silence, he plays kessig wolf fun but no creatures he has. So chandra is at 5, he smashed my reality at her, i block with a snapcaster tokeep her alive, and just keep pinging him while he draws crap, as i do, but soon hes in bolt range, and a molten rain off the top is just enough damage.
Game 3: this game is grindy, but hopeless. I draw at least 9 of my lands, he plays choke so im very choosey on what im playing and when im fetching, he draws all 4 of his kozileks return, and a ratchet bomb at 1 i literally just can't do anything. He brings down an 9/9 Endless one after both of us draw lands and pass for 2 turns each, and im sitting here with a useless spell pierce and a lightning bolt with him stil at a healthy 13.
the bant eldrazi match up seems absolutely horrendous for me. I honestly need a lot more testing, there are just a lot of things im very unfamililar with and i kinda felt lost during the match up. I felt more comfortable playing against scapeshift, which was weird lol
boros charm going back down to 1, unsubstantiate is going in as a 2 of, slip is going back to 2, and ill post post an adjusted list later for us to discuss if you all wouldnt mind.
appreciate the read if you read all of it lol
please feel free to throw me some advise, my sideboard is going to change drastically, but chandra will stay.
I have a lot to get too and thanks for the amazing posts RutherJC and Mazeron. I will get to them shortly, but I had to let everyone know that Jeff Hoogland brought Jeskai Aggro to the SCG event and was on camera last round. I'm sure he will be on camera again!
I have a lot to get too and thanks for the amazing posts RutherJC and Mazeron. I will get to them shortly, but I had to let everyone know that Jeff Hoogland brought Jeskai Aggro to the SCG event and was on camera last round. I'm sure he will be on camera again!
I noticed im super excited! I just ordered my mantos riders. Im gonna pilot this mamajama lol
So it looks like Hoogland finished 6-3 (with 2 byes that's a 4-3 record). I think that gets him into day 2. Not earth shattering, but I did see another player on camera with the same deck and he was doing well. Hopefully we see it at the top tables tomorrow!
None of the Jeskai Aggro made it to day 2 because of various reasons (bad match ups / inexperience with sideboards / bad luck) however, interestingly, a Jeskai Flash deck made it to top 8 (Snapcaster, Geist, Spellqueller).
It is meeting Scapeshift, so lets see how that goes!
Alright guys, here is my write up from last night! Ended 1-2
Round 1: Abzan Coco
----Game 1: I keep a hand with some gas but no creatures, and i just keep drawing redraw spells like Visions and Probe, but no freaking creature lol He starts kinda slow, plays Birds of Paradise into Kin-tree Spirit, and lands Viscera Seer soon after. Im holding up my 2 mana burn spells, since I dont have a 3rd land I dont wanna tap out and miss opportunity for spell pierce on his coco, which I now have 2 in my hand, so i tap some shots with the spirit and the seer, until finally he tries coco, which eats spell pierce with no remaining mana for him. Now i start to lean into aggression. I finally get a few creatures, and start applying pressure delver and swifty, and v clique revealing 2 lands for him, He tries another coco soon after, only to eat another spell pierce, (thank you Robert Holt) and swing in for over 10 damage on the next turn.
Side out- 1 slip through space, 1 boros charm
side In- 1 anger of the gods, 1 enginnered Ex.
Game 2: didnt last long. Also kept a no creature hand, with some removal and draw. This game he goes nuts, 2 voice of R, I see 2 kitchen finks, wall of roots, and 2 coco's while im stuck on 2 lands, and he runs me over, soon to get the combo.
Game 3:
Straight burn, best hand so far. I brought in the Geist here, taking out a lightning helix and a slip through space (i think). My hand was 2 delver, 1 swift, 1 geist, 1 bolt, 1 land. I play delver first, doesnt flip this turn but reveals a land so im ok with that, play delver and I bolt his Birds. He pays 2 life to play his viscera seer, then both my delver flips, and he dies soon after,
1-0
Round 2: Scapeshift.... **** i wish i had unsubstantiate
Game 1
I keep an ok hand, and his t1 search reveals exactly what is going on lol he bolts a couple of delvers before they flip, and i ping him here and there with a few burn spells waiting for a better creature. i finally draw some action with a v clique and 2 swiftys., the v clique is very timely since i ripped his scapeshift from his hand just in time. Then kill him on the following turn with a bolt + attackers, next turn he would have drawn scapeshift and won.
i have no clue what i did because i feel like i have nothing for the match up, ithink i brought in geist just to try to clock him faster.
Game 2
An anger of the gods blows me out when i have a very explosive start with 2 swiftys and some draw stuff fueling prowess for a few turns. After the anger i cant find anymore creatures and he blows me away with a titan and valakuts.
Game 3
I draw 6 land this game, and i path'ed an early obstinate baloth, and that was stupid, since 2 turns later he finished me off with a titan, next time, leave the damn thing alone. live and learn
1-1
Round 3: Bant Eldrazi
Game 1 I mulligan to 5 (hand 7 and 6 had no land) with keping a 1 lander, and keepin a land at the top. he does what eldrazi does, and just destroys me honestly, TKS ,2 bolts for any little creatures i draw, and my reality is soon smashed lol
-side- Chandra pyromaster, bedlam, stony silence (he played at least 2 of the g/r tap artifact things so i figured it couldnt hurt) 2 slips are out, a helix and a charm.
Game 2: Chandra wins me this game hands down. Its very grindy, we both draw stuff, answer each others stuff, i see a ratchet bomb, but i have stony silence, he plays kessig wolf fun but no creatures he has. So chandra is at 5, he smashed my reality at her, i block with a snapcaster tokeep her alive, and just keep pinging him while he draws crap, as i do, but soon hes in bolt range, and a molten rain off the top is just enough damage.
Game 3: this game is grindy, but hopeless. I draw at least 9 of my lands, he plays choke so im very choosey on what im playing and when im fetching, he draws all 4 of his kozileks return, and a ratchet bomb at 1 i literally just can't do anything. He brings down an 9/9 Endless one after both of us draw lands and pass for 2 turns each, and im sitting here with a useless spell pierce and a lightning bolt with him stil at a healthy 13.
the bant eldrazi match up seems absolutely horrendous for me. I honestly need a lot more testing, there are just a lot of things im very unfamililar with and i kinda felt lost during the match up. I felt more comfortable playing against scapeshift, which was weird lol
boros charm going back down to 1, unsubstantiate is going in as a 2 of, slip is going back to 2, and ill post post an adjusted list later for us to discuss if you all wouldnt mind.
appreciate the read if you read all of it lol
please feel free to throw me some advise, my sideboard is going to change drastically, but chandra will stay.
Sounds like you played well, but just didn't draw that well. Those days/nights happen. Your opening hands weren't great and you drew a lot of lands. Thanks for right up. I like when people are honest and give us the nights that don't go well because that is were we can learn the most. I always learn a ton more from my loses then I don when I win. I already know three flipped delvers and three lightning bolts are good :).
I really can't argue with anything you did. I loved the stony silence play against the rachet bomb. That guy probably did not see that coming. I haven't played scapeshift in awhile, but the counter magic comes up big here. Like you said, V. Clique is also huge. I will have to test against that matchup. It's seeing a recent uptick and actually beat jeskai flash in the top 8 at SCG. I do know that we have a much better matchup than most jeskai decks because a clock is really what you need against them. It would have been great if you had a negate or spell pierce for that anger of the gods. That's how quickly a 1-2 night can become a 2-1 night.
Thanks again for posting. I think I am going to post an entire post just on loses that I take so we can all go over them and see the decks weaknesses. In your case I don't think it had anything to do with the deck or how you played,variance just doesn't go our way sometimes. Without variance the game would get very boring very quickly.
None of the Jeskai Aggro made it to day 2 because of various reasons (bad match ups / inexperience with sideboards / bad luck) however, interestingly, a Jeskai Flash deck made it to top 8 (Snapcaster, Geist, Spellqueller).
It is meeting Scapeshift, so lets see how that goes!
I hope that Hoogland writes a round breakdown or something so we can see what decks beat him. I will also be interested to see how he updates the deck as well.
At a minimum at least there were a lot of eyes on jeskai prowess/aggro this weekend!
The jeskai flash deck was awesome because it ran Geist of Saint Traft, however, it's probably a littler closer to jeskai midrange than it is, jeskai prowess. We can still learn from the deck though. It reminded me how good Aven Mindcensor really is.
None of the Jeskai Aggro made it to day 2 because of various reasons (bad match ups / inexperience with sideboards / bad luck) however, interestingly, a Jeskai Flash deck made it to top 8 (Snapcaster, Geist, Spellqueller).
It is meeting Scapeshift, so lets see how that goes!
I hope that Hoogland writes a round breakdown or something so we can see what decks beat him. I will also be interested to see how he updates the deck as well.
At a minimum at least there were a lot of eyes on jeskai prowess/aggro this weekend!
The jeskai flash deck was awesome because it ran Geist of Saint Traft, however, it's probably a littler closer to jeskai midrange than it is, jeskai prowess. We can still learn from the deck though. It reminded me how good Aven Mindcensor really is.
He tweeted that he will write an article on MTGMarket about his deck. So I will keep an eye out for it this coming week.
I know he lost one of his pairings to Lantern Control. Both games he got turn 3 Bridged.
I really was interested by Jeff Hooglands deck and am going to try it out for modern this thursday (the store allows proxies, it isn't sanctioned). I'll post reports after I guess. I'm just gonna go with Hooglands list and hope I can get good draws. The store's best deck is dredge (He consistently wins with it) and I feel like with a heavy surgical extraction sideboard I will be able to survive. Other decks include Burn, Goryo's vengeance (its meh), UW Control, Abzan Combo, and some Abzan/Jund decks.
Hopefully I get paired with different decks so I can share my info with you all! I'll try and post more on the forums and check for updates.
I really was interested by Jeff Hooglands deck and am going to try it out for modern this thursday (the store allows proxies, it isn't sanctioned). I'll post reports after I guess. I'm just gonna go with Hooglands list and hope I can get good draws. The store's best deck is dredge (He consistently wins with it) and I feel like with a heavy surgical extraction sideboard I will be able to survive. Other decks include Burn, Goryo's vengeance (its meh), UW Control, Abzan Combo, and some Abzan/Jund decks.
Hopefully I get paired with different decks so I can share my info with you all! I'll try and post more on the forums and check for updates.
I really was interested by Jeff Hooglands deck and am going to try it out for modern this thursday (the store allows proxies, it isn't sanctioned). I'll post reports after I guess. I'm just gonna go with Hooglands list and hope I can get good draws. The store's best deck is dredge (He consistently wins with it) and I feel like with a heavy surgical extraction sideboard I will be able to survive. Other decks include Burn, Goryo's vengeance (its meh), UW Control, Abzan Combo, and some Abzan/Jund decks.
Hopefully I get paired with different decks so I can share my info with you all! I'll try and post more on the forums and check for updates.
Welcome to the jeskai topic! I'm glad to hear that Hooglands deck inspired people to give Jeskai prowess a try! I hope you draw well and win every round. If there is a ton of dredge in your area I would definitely run surgical extraction and maybe Hallowed Moonlight or Grafdigger's Cage.
It sounds like your area has a great mix of decks. That's awesome. Delver style decks really shine in an open meta. I know that the hoogland deck is more burn than delver, but burn decks are also a great choice for a wide open meta.
Let us know how it goes and you can tweak the deck to your preference. Welcome.
Our archetype is starting to get some results! Hoogland put the aggro version on the map and here is another version of Jeskai Prowess/Tempo that won an event in Japan!:
It's closer to the midrange end of the jeskai prowess archetype than usual, but is very similar to what a lot of people are running right now (myself included). I will definitely be testing this one out!
Every time I go less than a full playset of path to exiles, I always find myself wishing i had just ONE more, like almost every game. Maybe it's a meta thing, but my next version will probably run a full playset. Dealing with kitchen finks, Primeval Titan, 4+ toughness Goyfs, Rhinos! All relevant creatures you'd much rather path than Vapor snag, but i will run vapor snag as well, card is sooo good for tempo plays.
actually the Mentor is easier to protect than YP as he has prowess so you can cast 2 instants to put him out of bolt range and generate 2 monk tokens that have prowess too (or just 1 if you just want to leave something behind). even a tempo play of Remand to generate 1 token nets you good value.
mainly, you want to see Delver in your opening hand. Mentor is a mid game drop. Bedlam Reveler, Monastery Mentor and Geist are all devastating mid game drops when your opponent is low on cards / options and you will just overpower them.
Mid game Snapcasters to generate value off Mentor are also typical plays.
I myself am running a pretty similar version and I am pretty interested in this list.
The 4 paths are very interesting from my point of view, because as you mentioned the deck seems more mid-rangy and versus abzan/jund giving them extra mana can be very devastating for us.
The lack of pyromancer does confuse me although, I see mentor dealing more damage, but pyro comes out one turn earlier and can be protected.
What are your thoughts on this one?
I was a bit surprised with the list when I first saw it as well. Especially running only 19 lands with seven 3 cmc spells not including 3 snapcasters and bedlam reveler which are often at least 3 cmc spells. So there is a total of 13 spells that cost 3 CMC or more and an additional nine 2 CMC spells. The deck has twenty 1 CMC spells (including gitaxian probe).
Playing more powerful cards also mitigates the downside of Path to Exile. He can run 4 paths because he can top deck so many powerful cards. In addition, the builder runs only Remand as his counter magic spell of choice. Without Mana Leak and Spell Pierce, path is more effective as well. I assume if the game stays close it can end very quickly with a geist or mentor on the board especially powered by a mentor. I was just thinking how well mentor works with Saheeli Rai's second ability. I am super excited to add a mentor to my sideboard for grindy matchups.
I prefer to be slightly more aggressive than this deck, but for anyone who prefers to be slightly more midrange or for anyone who has a lot of jund/abzan in their meta and very little combo/tron, this is probably the best version of the deck you could run. You can't argue with results and this deck won the entire event so obviously it has some legs. I am excited to see what everyone on here comes up with after seeing this build.
I myself am running a pretty similar version and I am pretty interested in this list.
The 4 paths are very interesting from my point of view, because as you mentioned the deck seems more mid-rangy and versus abzan/jund giving them extra mana can be very devastating for us.
The lack of pyromancer does confuse me although, I see mentor dealing more damage, but pyro comes out one turn earlier and can be protected.
What are your thoughts on this one?
I was a bit surprised with the list when I first saw it as well. Especially running only 19 lands with seven 3 cmc spells not including 3 snapcasters and bedlam reveler which are often at least 3 cmc spells. So there is a total of 13 spells that cost 3 CMC or more and an additional nine 2 CMC spells. The deck has twenty 1 CMC spells (including gitaxian probe).
Playing more powerful cards also mitigates the downside of Path to Exile. He can run 4 paths because he can top deck so many powerful cards. In addition, the builder runs only Remand as his counter magic spell of choice. Without Mana Leak and Spell Pierce, path is more effective as well. I assume if the game stays close it can end very quickly with a geist or mentor on the board especially powered by a mentor. I was just thinking how well mentor works with Saheeli Rai's second ability. I am super excited to add a mentor to my sideboard for grindy matchups.
I prefer to be slightly more aggressive than this deck, but for anyone who prefers to be slightly more midrange or for anyone who has a lot of jund/abzan in their meta and very little combo/tron, this is probably the best version of the deck you could run. You can't argue with results and this deck won the entire event so obviously it has some legs. I am excited to see what everyone on here comes up with after seeing this build.
Jeskai prowess is looking great right now!
I completely agree, the fact of only using Remand as the counter magic helps the 4-of Path to Exile I run the same thing. Leak and Spell PIerce are just horrible with Path there is nothing around that, atleast with the remand while they may recast what they use we got a cantrip out of it and tapped some mana (which against a control shell is a turning point) If i can make my opponant tap out to play the same spell twice i can easily turn the corner, or we have a UW control player in our meta, if i can counter his Cryptic back to his hand and force him to play it again or wait, i can play around knowing it is there it helps so much.
Personally i have found with my deck list that Snapcaster is not as large of a threat, i will not deny that there have been games that he has helped with a snap-bolt, or remand etc in the late game. I was however suggested by another player to switch out Snapcaster for Monastery Mentor... they do not do anything close to the same ability so im not sure why it came up.. I would guess because i am casting it the same time as i would a Snapcaster most times and it generate more board presence? I dunno. What do you guys think about the switch? My list doesnt run a full play set of snapcaster which may also contribute to why people have suggested switching... Not sure i agree. what is everyone's thoughts.
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Thanks for responding to the weekly topic! I have a good one for next week already lined up. I always like seeing the slight differences in mana bases. Having the wrong manabase for each persons individual decks can cause major problems so it's always nice to get experience from other players. I think the fastlands are a must for anyone running 19 or fewer lands. I am still working on getting the right number into my deck. I think 2-3 is correct at this point. I am going to give Sulfur Falls another chance in my deck. I have missed it. I don't know what land to remove yet, but I will probably remove a fast land because I have noticed them coming into play tapped too often after turn 3. I will keep you posted on how my search for the correct mana base continues, but I am going to try 3 fastlands, 4 shocks, 3 basics, 1 buddy/check, and 7 fetchlands (at 18 lands).
I totally agree about Saheeli Rai. She has really surprised me. She is just great in the grindy matchups and also in the matchups where we become the control player. If you double a Bedlam Reveler the game is just over.
I haven't brought myself to play a Wandering Fumarole. I had a Faerie Conclave for awhile, but since I have gone more aggro I can't play come into tapped lands very easily. I do think if your deck is more midrangey and/or if your meta is full of midrange decks like jund and abzan then the manlands are a good choice.
Thanks for posting the awesome notes Mazeron
Also thank you Need_More_DPS for posting the Hoogland Jeskai Aggro Test videos. He speaks very highly of the deck so I will be interested to see if he thinks it's good enough to bring this weekend. I really hope he does. One thing to note is that he only played pre-boarded games. While typical delver decks get much better post board, burn style decks typically are less favored post board. The deck he was practicing is much closer to a burn deck than it is a tempo or delver style deck. It is expected that a burn style deck would win 60%+ of preboarded games, but when the opponenet brings in their life gain spells and removal it becomes much different. With that said, the deck has tested very well so far. If the deck is half as good post board as it is preboarded it will do very well this weekend. It's also a great base to start from for anyone who want to get into jeskai prowess.
At minimum I hope someone brings it this weekend and does well on camera. It about time jeskai prowess got some camera time!
On the weekly Topic for lands, I have been really digging the land base i am running currently (everyone is different so i wont specific the exact card name). Currently I am running:
7 Fetch
4 Shock
2 Fast Lands
1 Buddy Land
4 Basics
I have had large amounts of success with this as with only 2 Fast lands i usually get 1 or both before T3 (really great) or by time i do get them where they would be tapped it is in the long games and im already sitting at 4+ mana so it doesn't overly hinder me. My Buddy land is great, specifically i use the one that uses my least color mana and find it is nice, It is my late game land to avoid some damage from shocks and such should it go that far. If it is my only land in my opening then i wont keep it but generally i do not keep 1 land hands unless they have Delver and some Cantrips in them anyway. I used to run 8 fetch lands and 5 shocks.. this was just really painful and made for alot of close games, the addition of the fast lands is what caused me to drop those down as i think they are better then buddy lands. 7 Fetch also seems to be just right, i have enough to get all 4 shocks and 3 basics or vice versa, it also makes the deck down to playing practically 49 cards (7 fetch and 4 Probes) so i see what i need more often and my land base doesnt kill me. 4 Basics i believe is essential (atleast in my meta) as LD is a thing, Blood Moon is a thing, and with 4 mana i can guarantee casting everything in my deck (including Chandra)
@Mazereon i think i would disagree about Chandra and counterspells. Chandra is a late game, i run 1 of so i dont see her hit play till T4 if im lucky (obviously) but it is later normally. I find that by time i get her later Counterspells are not as prevalent as we do not have any true hard counters. late game if i am Remanding your spell your recasting it, if i played Leak your paying for it, Spell Pierce your paying for it so at this stage in the game my Counterspells just make you waste your mana and i still have a threat to deal with. With chandra on the board those counterspells become deck thinning spells that shock my opponent, i can +1 to see a Remand on T6 and go "yup, you can take that to the face". On the flip side if you play Monastery Swiftspear or even Bedlam Reveler T6 you reveal Remand, cast a 1 mana spell, remand it, recast it, 3 prowess triggers, draw a card, swing for X dmg.. also a valuable thing. Do not discredit her other +1 for it is amazing. I played a game where i had her on the field, i cast Lightning bolt, Lightning Helix, +1 to make 2 red mana, cast Bedlam Reveler for 2R, draw my 3 and cast another Lightning Bolt, this here is more powerful then Bolt - Snap - Bolt as i just hit you for 9 dmg, refilled my hand, gained 3 life and have a huge threat on the board. Chandras minus is also still good late game to, 4dmg to a Tarmygoyf, Siege Rhino, Tasigur.. it may not kill the last 2 but now they are boltable. Also (and this doesn't happen often) but i have Ultimate her... that is a god play, there is no feasable way you should loose at this point... Cast bolt.. oh you countered it? well still 5dmg as it is on cast not resolution.
As for Saheeli Rai i run her in my build as well and she is also freaking amazing.. I cannot bear myself to cut either yet. Using Saheeli Rai to have 3 Flipped Delver on the field is pretty insane, using her to make a Pyromancer and have endless tokens.. phenomenal... and copying a Bedlam Reveler to refill again and swing with 2 big prowess creatures... Delicious.
For Reference, here is my list currently.
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Steam Vents
2 Spirebluff Canal
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Plains
1 Island
2 Mountain
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Young Pyromancer
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Bedlam Reveler
Instant
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
1 Spell Snare
3 Lightning Helix
4 Remand
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Slip Through Space
Planeswalker
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Saheeli Rai
Spell Snare might go into my Sideboard im not sure, if i did i would probably up my Helix count to 4 or add back in 1 Boros Charm.
He is a bit more expensive at 4 mana (but can untap a land to effectively cost 3) and I find his abilities less conditional and more generally useful (tap a blocker and untap a land or bolt a creature/opponent) and the Ultimate is also much more relevant.
He is also more difficult to kill due to higher loyalty and the ability to bolt an opposing creature.
You guys have definitely convinced me to add a buddy land back into my deck. I think I am going to try your exact mana base configuration.
I think the Chandra argument really just depends on the deck your running. If your running a Monastery Swiftspear deck then Chandra probably isn't great because your curve is low and your trying to force through damage early. If your running a Young Pyromancer deck you can play a slightly longer game making all of Chandra's abilities more valuable. I personally haven't had much luck with her, but I run a swiftspear deck. I can't even imagine having a Saheeli Rai and Chandra at once. It would be amazing and I assume it's hard to lose at that point. I do think that both Chandra, Pyromaster and Chandra, Torch of Defiance are great choices for the top end of decks running 19+ lands.
Good call D90Dennis. I haven't thought about Ral Zarek for awhile. My bro and I were talking about the rumor that guy put out awhile ago that we would go Kaladesh, Amonket, and then back to Ravnica. He is two for two right now so I am pretty confident that we will be returning to Ravnica after Amonket. I really hope they do another Ral Zarek (hopefully a 3 CMC walker again, but I doubt it with Saheeli).
As for the current Ral, I just hate that he goes down to 2 loyalty after the bolt. He doesn't reall offer any type of card advantage either so he never really fit my main gameplan and didn't offer what my late game was lacking. I did run him in my very old walkers extra turns deck, but haven't played him since. I will definitely be getting him out of the box and testing him out. I don't make any final decisions unless I test the card in my actual deck. I have had cards I thought I would love that just bombed and cards that I thought would be just ok that worked out great. To be honest, I thought Bedlam Reveler would be good, but I never thought he would be soo great.
Anyone test Ral in the deck yet?
Mazeron- I love Blessed Alliance. It's great against aggro decks and big creature decks. With it and Deflecting Palm the aggro players get very tilted :).
Apologies for not responding to this earlier!
I think weekly or fortnightly discussion topics is a great idea!
Generally I think Jeskai builds are U/R so they will lean on
3 - 4 Spirebluff Canal
1 - 2 Seachrome Coast
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarns (or because of budget reasons off colour fetches like Bloodstained Mire and Wooded Foothills for Red)
2 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
4 - 6 Basics (Island and Mountain as primary. Plains as secondary)
for decks running 20 and above landcount:
1 Wandering Fumarole (not really favorable because high activation cost)
1 - 2 Celestial Colonnade (needs high land count 23+)
1 Needle Spires (not really favorable because high activation cost)
1 Faerie Conclave (has evasion! low activation cost. contributes to blue mana count. only cons is CIP tapped and produces only 1 type of mana)
My builds generally do not need filter lands, but if you guys end up running cards like Cryptic Command or cards that need double coloured mana, you would want to look into those.
This is what I have/think for now.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
Round 1: Abzan Coco
----Game 1: I keep a hand with some gas but no creatures, and i just keep drawing redraw spells like Visions and Probe, but no freaking creature lol He starts kinda slow, plays Birds of Paradise into Kin-tree Spirit, and lands Viscera Seer soon after. Im holding up my 2 mana burn spells, since I dont have a 3rd land I dont wanna tap out and miss opportunity for spell pierce on his coco, which I now have 2 in my hand, so i tap some shots with the spirit and the seer, until finally he tries coco, which eats spell pierce with no remaining mana for him. Now i start to lean into aggression. I finally get a few creatures, and start applying pressure delver and swifty, and v clique revealing 2 lands for him, He tries another coco soon after, only to eat another spell pierce, (thank you Robert Holt) and swing in for over 10 damage on the next turn.
Side out- 1 slip through space, 1 boros charm
side In- 1 anger of the gods, 1 enginnered Ex.
Game 2: didnt last long. Also kept a no creature hand, with some removal and draw. This game he goes nuts, 2 voice of R, I see 2 kitchen finks, wall of roots, and 2 coco's while im stuck on 2 lands, and he runs me over, soon to get the combo.
Game 3:
Straight burn, best hand so far. I brought in the Geist here, taking out a lightning helix and a slip through space (i think). My hand was 2 delver, 1 swift, 1 geist, 1 bolt, 1 land. I play delver first, doesnt flip this turn but reveals a land so im ok with that, play delver and I bolt his Birds. He pays 2 life to play his viscera seer, then both my delver flips, and he dies soon after,
1-0
Round 2: Scapeshift.... **** i wish i had unsubstantiate
Game 1
I keep an ok hand, and his t1 search reveals exactly what is going on lol he bolts a couple of delvers before they flip, and i ping him here and there with a few burn spells waiting for a better creature. i finally draw some action with a v clique and 2 swiftys., the v clique is very timely since i ripped his scapeshift from his hand just in time. Then kill him on the following turn with a bolt + attackers, next turn he would have drawn scapeshift and won.
i have no clue what i did because i feel like i have nothing for the match up, ithink i brought in geist just to try to clock him faster.
Game 2
An anger of the gods blows me out when i have a very explosive start with 2 swiftys and some draw stuff fueling prowess for a few turns. After the anger i cant find anymore creatures and he blows me away with a titan and valakuts.
Game 3
I draw 6 land this game, and i path'ed an early obstinate baloth, and that was stupid, since 2 turns later he finished me off with a titan, next time, leave the damn thing alone. live and learn
1-1
Round 3: Bant Eldrazi
Game 1 I mulligan to 5 (hand 7 and 6 had no land) with keping a 1 lander, and keepin a land at the top. he does what eldrazi does, and just destroys me honestly, TKS ,2 bolts for any little creatures i draw, and my reality is soon smashed lol
-side- Chandra pyromaster, bedlam, stony silence (he played at least 2 of the g/r tap artifact things so i figured it couldnt hurt) 2 slips are out, a helix and a charm.
Game 2: Chandra wins me this game hands down. Its very grindy, we both draw stuff, answer each others stuff, i see a ratchet bomb, but i have stony silence, he plays kessig wolf fun but no creatures he has. So chandra is at 5, he smashed my reality at her, i block with a snapcaster tokeep her alive, and just keep pinging him while he draws crap, as i do, but soon hes in bolt range, and a molten rain off the top is just enough damage.
Game 3: this game is grindy, but hopeless. I draw at least 9 of my lands, he plays choke so im very choosey on what im playing and when im fetching, he draws all 4 of his kozileks return, and a ratchet bomb at 1 i literally just can't do anything. He brings down an 9/9 Endless one after both of us draw lands and pass for 2 turns each, and im sitting here with a useless spell pierce and a lightning bolt with him stil at a healthy 13.
the bant eldrazi match up seems absolutely horrendous for me. I honestly need a lot more testing, there are just a lot of things im very unfamililar with and i kinda felt lost during the match up. I felt more comfortable playing against scapeshift, which was weird lol
boros charm going back down to 1, unsubstantiate is going in as a 2 of, slip is going back to 2, and ill post post an adjusted list later for us to discuss if you all wouldnt mind.
appreciate the read if you read all of it lol
please feel free to throw me some advise, my sideboard is going to change drastically, but chandra will stay.
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
I noticed im super excited! I just ordered my mantos riders. Im gonna pilot this mamajama lol
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
he has a chance of making day 2.
Deck Tech
he and his team (total 3 players) have a combined record of 15-3.
@Rutherjc19, Jeff Hoogland 2-0 William Buehler who was running Bant Eldrazi. I am watching the replay of the coverage now and learning how it went.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
It is meeting Scapeshift, so lets see how that goes!
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
Sounds like you played well, but just didn't draw that well. Those days/nights happen. Your opening hands weren't great and you drew a lot of lands. Thanks for right up. I like when people are honest and give us the nights that don't go well because that is were we can learn the most. I always learn a ton more from my loses then I don when I win. I already know three flipped delvers and three lightning bolts are good :).
I really can't argue with anything you did. I loved the stony silence play against the rachet bomb. That guy probably did not see that coming. I haven't played scapeshift in awhile, but the counter magic comes up big here. Like you said, V. Clique is also huge. I will have to test against that matchup. It's seeing a recent uptick and actually beat jeskai flash in the top 8 at SCG. I do know that we have a much better matchup than most jeskai decks because a clock is really what you need against them. It would have been great if you had a negate or spell pierce for that anger of the gods. That's how quickly a 1-2 night can become a 2-1 night.
Thanks again for posting. I think I am going to post an entire post just on loses that I take so we can all go over them and see the decks weaknesses. In your case I don't think it had anything to do with the deck or how you played,variance just doesn't go our way sometimes. Without variance the game would get very boring very quickly.
I hope that Hoogland writes a round breakdown or something so we can see what decks beat him. I will also be interested to see how he updates the deck as well.
At a minimum at least there were a lot of eyes on jeskai prowess/aggro this weekend!
The jeskai flash deck was awesome because it ran Geist of Saint Traft, however, it's probably a littler closer to jeskai midrange than it is, jeskai prowess. We can still learn from the deck though. It reminded me how good Aven Mindcensor really is.
He tweeted that he will write an article on MTGMarket about his deck. So I will keep an eye out for it this coming week.
I know he lost one of his pairings to Lantern Control. Both games he got turn 3 Bridged.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
I really was interested by Jeff Hooglands deck and am going to try it out for modern this thursday (the store allows proxies, it isn't sanctioned). I'll post reports after I guess. I'm just gonna go with Hooglands list and hope I can get good draws. The store's best deck is dredge (He consistently wins with it) and I feel like with a heavy surgical extraction sideboard I will be able to survive. Other decks include Burn, Goryo's vengeance (its meh), UW Control, Abzan Combo, and some Abzan/Jund decks.
Hopefully I get paired with different decks so I can share my info with you all! I'll try and post more on the forums and check for updates.
Welcome and Good Luck!
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
Welcome to the jeskai topic! I'm glad to hear that Hooglands deck inspired people to give Jeskai prowess a try! I hope you draw well and win every round. If there is a ton of dredge in your area I would definitely run surgical extraction and maybe Hallowed Moonlight or Grafdigger's Cage.
It sounds like your area has a great mix of decks. That's awesome. Delver style decks really shine in an open meta. I know that the hoogland deck is more burn than delver, but burn decks are also a great choice for a wide open meta.
Let us know how it goes and you can tweak the deck to your preference. Welcome.
MTG Deck — WUR TRAFT. BUILDER: MORII TOMOFUMI.
1st in 晴れる屋モダン杯 [29 Players] — 22-Oct-2016
Maindeck (60)
2 Bedlam Reveler
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Monastery Mentor
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
Instant [18]
1 Electrolyze
1 Izzet Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
4 Remand
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
Land [19]
4 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Seachrome Coast
2 Spirebluff Canal
2 Steam Vents
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Izzet Staticaster
3 Negate
1 Pithing Needle
2 Stony Silence
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Timely Reinforcements
2 Wear // Tear
It's closer to the midrange end of the jeskai prowess archetype than usual, but is very similar to what a lot of people are running right now (myself included). I will definitely be testing this one out!
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
mainly, you want to see Delver in your opening hand. Mentor is a mid game drop. Bedlam Reveler, Monastery Mentor and Geist are all devastating mid game drops when your opponent is low on cards / options and you will just overpower them.
Mid game Snapcasters to generate value off Mentor are also typical plays.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
I was a bit surprised with the list when I first saw it as well. Especially running only 19 lands with seven 3 cmc spells not including 3 snapcasters and bedlam reveler which are often at least 3 cmc spells. So there is a total of 13 spells that cost 3 CMC or more and an additional nine 2 CMC spells. The deck has twenty 1 CMC spells (including gitaxian probe).
Playing more powerful cards also mitigates the downside of Path to Exile. He can run 4 paths because he can top deck so many powerful cards. In addition, the builder runs only Remand as his counter magic spell of choice. Without Mana Leak and Spell Pierce, path is more effective as well. I assume if the game stays close it can end very quickly with a geist or mentor on the board especially powered by a mentor. I was just thinking how well mentor works with Saheeli Rai's second ability. I am super excited to add a mentor to my sideboard for grindy matchups.
I prefer to be slightly more aggressive than this deck, but for anyone who prefers to be slightly more midrange or for anyone who has a lot of jund/abzan in their meta and very little combo/tron, this is probably the best version of the deck you could run. You can't argue with results and this deck won the entire event so obviously it has some legs. I am excited to see what everyone on here comes up with after seeing this build.
Jeskai prowess is looking great right now!
I completely agree, the fact of only using Remand as the counter magic helps the 4-of Path to Exile I run the same thing. Leak and Spell PIerce are just horrible with Path there is nothing around that, atleast with the remand while they may recast what they use we got a cantrip out of it and tapped some mana (which against a control shell is a turning point) If i can make my opponant tap out to play the same spell twice i can easily turn the corner, or we have a UW control player in our meta, if i can counter his Cryptic back to his hand and force him to play it again or wait, i can play around knowing it is there it helps so much.
Personally i have found with my deck list that Snapcaster is not as large of a threat, i will not deny that there have been games that he has helped with a snap-bolt, or remand etc in the late game. I was however suggested by another player to switch out Snapcaster for Monastery Mentor... they do not do anything close to the same ability so im not sure why it came up.. I would guess because i am casting it the same time as i would a Snapcaster most times and it generate more board presence? I dunno. What do you guys think about the switch? My list doesnt run a full play set of snapcaster which may also contribute to why people have suggested switching... Not sure i agree. what is everyone's thoughts.