Ok guys. Im dropping a cryptic from my midrange list, but im also thinking about dropping resto for another knight errant and something else.
But i was told "if i wanted to cut resto something is wrong cuz she is a key card in the deck. She is certainly better than knight errant".
Is it wrong to cut a reactive card for proactive? What am i doing with resto? Protecting geist, or saving a v clique. What can i do with knight errant? Bash a 5/5 flying geist alongside its angel, and not have to worry about saving it. So i think elspeth is more right for the way i wanna play the deck.
Am i crazy? Or does that make sense? Would people recommend trying to work with both?
Ok guys. Im dropping a cryptic from my midrange list, but im also thinking about dropping resto for another knight errant and something else.
But i was told "if i wanted to cut resto something is wrong cuz she is a key card in the deck. She is certainly better than knight errant".
Is it wrong to cut a reactive card for proactive? What am i doing with resto? Protecting geist, or saving a v clique. What can i do with knight errant? Bash a 5/5 flying geist alongside its angel, and not have to worry about saving it. So i think elspeth is more right for the way i wanna play the deck.
Am i crazy? Or does that make sense? Would people recommend trying to work with both?
I am afraid that is the problem with the thinking of some of the members on here and many other sites. They don't put themselves in the deck builder's shoes and try to understand what the deck is ultimately trying to accomplish. They see a "net deck" and assume every decision made for that deck is the "right" card and therefore anything else is wrong. We all know that way of thinking is most likely incorrect because decks should always be evolving to meet the meta meta and should also be an extension of how the deck builder wants to play the deck.
***To avoid a rant and get a simple answer skip to the bottom***
When someone says something like that I like to ask why? Why would cutting Resto for Ellie be "wrong" and why is resto "better" than Elspeth Knight Errant. Even comparing the two ards on a scale of better or worse is nearly impossible since they are very different style cards so I don't know how that person considers Resto "better". But that's another topic entirely.
The simplest question I ask myself is what am I trying to do with the top end (or mid/top end in your case) of my deck. If a protective/evasion/value creature is what your looking for than Resto would probably suite the deck better (notice it's not a better card). If you want to finish the game out or put pressure on the opponent at that point than Elspeth would be better, especially if your concentrating on getting a Geist to resolve mid game. If you would like both things as an option run both. In the end one of the cards will show up in playing as the superior choice for that certain deck.
As an example, in my build I want to pull away with card advantage if I am behind and I want to put the game away if I am ahead. Therefore, Chandra is the best choice for my top end. She can give me pseudo card advantage on an empty board or can ping/clear away blockers if I am ahead. Ellie would also be a great choice for my personal deck and playstyle. However, Resto does not accomplish all of these things and therefore is most likely a lesser choice for my personal deck because I don't run a lot of bounce targets to gain card advantage. If I did run wall of omens, v clique, 4x snapcaster, then resto would likely be a better choice, but I do not.
I typically quickly dismiss any response that is simply "This card is better" with no explanation as to why it's better in context. Another one I particularly hate that often comes from a famous streamer (who I generally enjoy unless he is in one of his bad moods) that rhymes with Jichael Macobs is "If I have to explain it than you don't get it". That's the same thing as saying, "I can't explain it because it's just my opinion and I don't have a good answer so I won't give one". In the end it's ok to be wrong as long as you tried something and had a a valid reason for trying it. Every new deck/idea has been built by people who were willing to fail.
****Sorry for the long rant to a simple question, but I am not a fan of negative, non-constructive responses. Obviously I am a fan of long winded responses :). I do think Cryptic Command is in a tough place right now with an increase in play of lower costed counter spells in tempo decks and the UWR midrange decks. I have not like Resto in my personal build as explained above so I am on the Ellie side of that argument. Resto just never seemed like a big enough affect on the top end of my CMC scale to make a solid difference in the late game. However, it really just depends on what your trying to accomplish. If you are want to finish out a game or pull away then Ellie is likely the better choice. If you run a lot of bounce targets, play a decent amount of counter magic (where the flash becomes very important), and can finish a game by attacking for 3 at a time in the air then resto is likely the better choice. Go with what you prefer and what fits best in your style and for your game plan. Also can you post your recent list so I can get a better feel for it. Always good to hear from you Rurtherjc.
Hey guys thanks for the support and the responses! :') lol
I should i have said my updated list was posted on the last page but here it is again. I took out cryptic command, because the triple blue wasn't working out well.
At first i wanted another electrolyze, but i decided to make it another elspeth. I'll be going to modern on Wednesday after work so ill have a report to type out for everyone hopefully
So i decided to try 2 each right now. I havent seen resto in ANY match yet so i have no idea how shes been, but elsepth has been outstanding in my testing. If i see her too muchon Wednesday ill know to go back to one and add something else lol
I want to add another anger of the gods in my sideboard but i cant find room for it. That abzan company match is stupid, and i hate losing to it, so im trying to do the best i can to prepare for it, and it will also help the zoo/aggro/affinity matchups.
I also might consider vandalblast for the sideboard. Lantern control doesnt run many counterspells, and it would be destructive if i drew this instead of wear/tear, especially if multiple ensnaring bridge is keeping me locked down.
And don't ever apologize cardboard for giving a detailed response, id rather read a detailed good response than a 2 worder... needmoredps lol
So after getting slaughtered last night (1-3, all good things must come to an end) I decided that at heart my deck was a burn deck. So I increased the firepower so to speak:
Ral Zarek might be an even better idea than Ajani Vengeant because of higher loyalty and a better +1.
Also, have you considered Chandra's Phoenix in the Mantis Rider slot ?
It's weaker and has no Vigilance but is rather resilient with all the burn spells+Chandra to bring it back (which is relevant as both die to L.Bolt).
So after getting slaughtered last night (1-3, all good things must come to an end) I decided that at heart my deck was a burn deck. So I increased the firepower so to speak:
i been running rift bolts because of the option to choose the target. the delayed prowess trigger also gives your opponent something to think about. many times i had opponents not cast a creature because they know they will lose it to the rift bolt and rather take the blunt of the damage the following turn.
taking a minimum of 5 damage the following turn (swiftspear with prowess trigger) goes a long way to end the game. i might cut a few Boros Charms, Jeskai Charms and a Lava Spike to go for a full set of rift bolts. =)
i have been wanting to sneak in lava spikes into my deck but i am too fond of my Serum Visions and Gitaxian Probes for gas.
So after getting slaughtered last night (1-3, all good things must come to an end) I decided that at heart my deck was a burn deck. So I increased the firepower so to speak:
i been running rift bolts because of the option to choose the target. the delayed prowess trigger also gives your opponent something to think about. many times i had opponents not cast a creature because they know they will lose it to the rift bolt and rather take the blunt of the damage the following turn.
taking a minimum of 5 damage the following turn (swiftspear with prowess trigger) goes a long way to end the game. i might cut a few Boros Charms, Jeskai Charms and a Lava Spike to go for a full set of rift bolts. =)
i have been wanting to sneak in lava spikes into my deck but i am too fond of my Serum Visions and Gitaxian Probes for gas.
Rift Bolt is an interesting idea. Especially if you can pair it with a swiftspear. I really like the idea of Seal of Fire as well. You can cast it whenever you have free mana for a prowess trigger and then do the two damage whenever you need it. There are lots of ways to go with a more burn oriented prowess deck so I am really excited to see what you end up with. Both options are extremely interesting and give a lot of playability to the deck. They can also add up to realy big turns with rebound spells.
Ral Zarek might be an even better idea than Ajani Vengeant because of higher loyalty and a better +1.
Also, have you considered Chandra's Phoenix in the Mantis Rider slot ?
It's weaker and has no Vigilance but is rather resilient with all the burn spells+Chandra to bring it back (which is relevant as both die to L.Bolt).
Hi D90Dennis. Good to hear from you again.
I love some of these suggestions. I hadn't even considered Chandra's Phoenix for a burn heavy deck. That is something worth looking into.
Also, I love me some Ral Zarek. The only deck I could ever get him to work in was my lightning blitz deck, but I have a special place in my heart for Ral.
We got some great news yesterday! We are going to Kaladesh in the next block! Kaladesh is known as the home plane of Chandra and is so far has been shown to be a heavy Blue/Red plane with a artifact heavy theme. This seems to scream prowess to me. In addition, they have already shown the new planeswalker Saheeli Rai who appears to be very UR in her picture. I'm predicting the set will have a fair share of prowess creatures so I am very excited to visit Kaladesh. There is an argument that because it's illegal to be a natural mage on Kaladesh that spells/prowess style cards will be few and far between, but I am hopeful that this will not be the case.
I have never been a huge fan of playing artifacts (other than the sword cycle) due to all of the hate for artifacts, however, they do trigger prowess and we might get some really cool stuff. What do you all think? Do you think Kaladesh will concentrate on prowess or just have a small number of prowess "throw-ins". Either way I am excited to visit a UR heavy plane.
indeed. i think kadadesh will be a heavily izzet themed place with interesting cards to play off the thopter cards already in standard and possibly modern (insert jeskai/grixis thopter decks).
artifacts, burn and some cool izzet cards! i can't wait to see what the commons and uncommons will bring us!
the few artifacts that i actually do play in modern are Chromatic Star, Relic of Progenitus and Nihil Spellbomb. it would be pretty cool if we get some sort of low to the ground artifact that could fit into our deck like:
It needs Snapcaster Mage, but since you don't have him, that's fine too.. You get SO much value from him, in my build he's the MAIN reason I add blue. definitely consider him for an upgraded version!
i think the first draft of your deck looks good, especially if it caters to your playstyle. your addition of myth realized is a cool one. i have experience using that card in other attrition based decks and i think it is a cool card in jeskai tempo archetypes as a early drop and let it grow as you tempo out your opponent and activate it for the kill.
i used to run about 3 stormchaser mages but has cut it down to a 1 of in the deck. he just isn't aggressive enough but a late game 1/3 prowess flyer can end things quickly. then again, there is mantis rider! my main issue with stormchaser mage is that i want a 2 power creature on turn 2 and if you run mantis rider, you have a turn 3 drop that flies to press the board.
abbot of the keral keep is a cool card but i am not very good with him. too often i was tempted to take a risk and play him early to try and flip a land or 1 cc spell.... and fail. i pretty much replaced him altogether with delver of secrets lol
chandra's phoneix as a one off is a cool addition. it will surprise a fair share of opponents.
ral zarek is an interesting card that have been tested by others here. i think they can chime in about him.
i think your manabase looks fine but if you experience any issues do sound out. it took me much play testing to finally settled on 2 steam vents than 1 in my version.
things to consider:
cantrip / gas. chandra pyromancer as a late game play is a bomb. i run a playset of serum visions and gitaxian probes for that. needless to say, both spells also trigger prowess and adds tokens to myth realized. the synergy is real here! you have the abbot for that so it might be enough.
i run 2 seeker of the way maindeck and i used to run 1 soulfire grandmaster. i love seeker of the way as a turn 2 drop but i cannot run more of him because i need a saturation of aggressive 1 mana drops (swiftspear, delver) to follow up with aggressive 2 drops (young pyromancer, seeker of the way, stormchaser mage). my success with soulfire grandmaster is a mixed one. as a late drop with spells in ur hand, she can win you the game all by herself. but in all my games of playtesting, the times she actually did it were few and far as my opponents usually killed her the moment she resolved.
soulfire grandmaster is a very powerful creature. the speed which all my opponents reacted to deal with her is evident.
you have swiftspear and myth realized as your 1 drop so that is a thing.
i think your deck looks very aggressive and you should give it a few games to break it in. i suspect searing blaze can be replaced with something else.
Has anyone tried Spellheart Chimera as 3-drop in their deck (as an alternative to Mantis Rider) ?
The downside is the 3-toughness but if it sticks it can get pretty big.
Another creature option is Chandra's Spitfire which seems not bad in burn-heavy lists.
Another interesting spell for more midrange builds is Epic Experiment.
Welp i got my butt whooped last night.
I went 1-2. Beat some newb starting out who didn't have really any good slivers in his deck.
Lost against Elves 1-2.
Lost against U/B Fairies 0-2. This guy spanked me, and it wasnt a friendly spanking lol the first game i see not 1, not 2, but 3 ancestral visions and 1 mana leak from my side... thats it lol
This other store im playing at has a lot more jund and aggro decks, so im going to have to adjust accordingly.
My sideboard is going to have 2 anger of the gods thats for sure.
Guys... i still dont like resto, might be time for lighting angel! And back down to 1 elspeth, i added a remand for now.
Also everytime i see v clique, i see both of them together... so i might go down to 1 v clique and throw in something else lol
More to come once i get some free time.
Welp i got my butt whooped last night.
I went 1-2. Beat some newb starting out who didn't have really any good slivers in his deck.
Lost against Elves 1-2.
Lost against U/B Fairies 0-2. This guy spanked me, and it wasnt a friendly spanking lol the first game i see not 1, not 2, but 3 ancestral visions and 1 mana leak from my side... thats it lol
This other store im playing at has a lot more jund and aggro decks, so im going to have to adjust accordingly.
My sideboard is going to have 2 anger of the gods thats for sure.
Guys... i still dont like resto, might be time for lighting angel! And back down to 1 elspeth, i added a remand for now.
Also everytime i see v clique, i see both of them together... so i might go down to 1 v clique and throw in something else lol
More to come once i get some free time.
Those are some tough matchups there. Elves and Fairies both require some sideboard help. The only cards I have in the board for them are Engineered Explosives and Detention Sphere and then random decent cards. Two angers would be phenomenal against those two decks. Anger of The Gods is just really well positioned right now. Unfortunately, I can't run it in my deck because I depend on my threats too much. I thought about trying a one of Bonfire of the Damned in my board to see if that would work well with the serum visions, but I just don't think I have enough mana to make it worth while when I don't miracle it. I also hate being forced to cast it when I do miracle it.
I like V.Clique right now. It is very killable and isn't actual card advantage, but its great against midrange decks which is where the meta has gone lately. I think you are correct about resto angel. I just don't think it's great right now. People are winning quickly or big so there is really no place for a midrange flier to dominate. Don't get me wrong, she is a great card, just not great right now. I think there are better options at 4 mana. I noticed greatnate was running a one of Gideon, Ally of Zendikar to give Geist +1/+1 counters and it looked really cool. Worst case scenario its a 5/5 Indestructible that soaks up damage. That might be good too.
There is a ton of customization in this deck so make sure it feels great to you. Confidence is key.
I like this take on the deck. I think Abbot is very good in the aggressive/burn style prowess decks so I like him as a 4-of. I too was not super impressed when playing stormchaser mage so if you do make a cut to the creature suite that is where I would start.
Because your attacking on the ground I would suggest possibly adding Emerge Unscathed to the list. This also gives protection to your Myth Realized when they keep their removal for when you animate it. I would def run two of these. I would suggest cutting a rift bolt and a boros charms. Boros charms are great but they can get stuck in your hand in multiples. In addition, you are adding a protection spell to the deck so cutting one protection spell makes sense.
Other than that I can't wait to see how this plays out. It looks really awesome. Keep us posted!
As for spellheart chimera I brewed with that card a ton when it first came out and just couldn't get it to work. I was playing iw with Runechanter's Pike and a bunch of spells in a RUG deck. I haven't tried it heare, but it would probably fit best in the aggressive/burn versions.
I would love to see Epic Experiment work in a deck. It actually could be a great top end card to a Jeskai burn deck. It doesn't fit my personal temp style deck, but the card is sweet and we should def brew with it.
I would love to see Epic Experiment work in a deck. It actually could be a great top end card to a Jeskai burn deck. It doesn't fit my personal temp style deck, but the card is sweet and we should def brew with it.
i have a foil epic experiment lying in my box. i will stick one in to replace electrolyze and report back how it works out. the low mana base of my deck might blank the card but with a few prowess creatures on board, a mid game X=3 can seal the game without even attacking.
I would love to see Epic Experiment work in a deck. It actually could be a great top end card to a Jeskai burn deck. It doesn't fit my personal temp style deck, but the card is sweet and we should def brew with it.
i have a foil epic experiment lying in my box. i will stick one in to replace electrolyze and report back how it works out. the low mana base of my deck might blank the card but with a few prowess creatures on board, a mid game X=3 can seal the game without even attacking.
I really hadn't thought of the power level of this card with prowess creatures on the board That's a great point. I REALLY hope this works out. It sounds awesome. Thanks for bringing this card back up D90Dennis14.
I'm starting a new series that will detail one matchup in depth each time I test (probably twice a week). Each time I test I will chose one matchup to test against extensively. By extensively I mean anywhere between 10-30 games depending on how much time we have; so it's not going an complete guide, but it will give me enough information to see general trends in the matchups. I will talk about the pre-boarded games, give a estimate of our percentage wo win (based on my personal opinion with my personal deck), sideboard tips, and then talk about the post boarded strategy. In the end I will talk about the matchup as a whole and what strategies I personally impliment in these matchups. I will list games notes from each testing session in a separate area for those who want to see how the actual games played out. I'm not a pro so please feel free to tell me if/when you disagree with my analysis and where I did something wrong. In the end I will put these all together in a guide that will go on the new primer (whenever I get it done). Without further adieu, here is the first opponent- Infect.
The matchup- While infect is the boogeyman for a lot of decks in modern, we actually have a fairly good matchup against them. Lightning Bolt, Path to Exile, Lightning Helix, Spell Pierce, Izzet Charm, Snapcaster Mage, etc are all great here and we have enough pressure to get them dead before they can kill us if our removal holds. Infect is fast enough and powerful enough to win through our removal and disruption. Although we are favored, infect is still a very stupid deck that breaks the rules of magic by starting you at 10 life so infect is no push-over.
What The Opponent Often Sideboards Against Jeskai Way- The opponent will often sideboard in 1-2 spellskites, and 2-4 dispels/negates. In addition, some decks have increased removal in Abrupt Decay and Dismember and some infect decks will side in Wild Defiance. Although most infect decks do not play choke because they often play blue mana, the GB version can play Choke.
Sideboaring Explanation and Post Board Strategy- We want to become a lean mean removal/disruption machine post sideboard. We will be taking the control role here, but will want to play it more as tempo/control rather than a pure control or late game strategy. Deflecting Palm is the best sideboard card here because they can pump their infect creatures to their heart's desire and we simply redirect the damage back to them (it's not infect damage when redirected). Negate and Dispel are strict upgrades to remand post board. Because they side in spellskites and because they often don't block much we can side out our rebound spells. Wear // Tear is also very good here because it kills the aforementioned spellskites and also gives us protection if the opponent sides in Choke or Wild Defiance. Most of their infectors and mana dorks are 1 and two drops so Engineered Explosives gives us a chance at a possible two or three for one. In addition, it can be backup protection against Inkmoth Nexus by setting it on 0. Speaking of Inkmoth Nexus, Spreading Seas does a great job of removing it and could also take the opponent off of a color (black or blue} because they often play very few lands. Finally, Nahiri, the Harbinger is further protection from any enchantments they bring in, is additional creature removal, and helps us finish out the game. Nahiri is not great here so if you would rather have the extra pressure of Abbot of Keral Keep or Monastery Swiftspear you can forgo siding her in, especially on the draw.
Trends and Vital Points
-Kill their creatures early and often- This includes [c]Noble Hierarch[/c[. Don't let them have a single creature stay on the board if you can manage it. Their deck relies heavily on an infect creature and they will often "waste" pump spells to protect a creature on their turn so go after them. I'm not suggesting to play lose so back up your removal with disruption when possible, but you do need to be aggressive with your removal.
-Utilize the upkeep step and end of turn- Make them tap mana on their turn before combat or on your own turn as much as you can. It's best if they have to protect or pump creatures at any time other than during the combat step. That way we have as much information during the combat step as we can possibly get (outside of gitaxian probe).
-Infect will often win the "stack wars"- This is related to the prior point. The infect deck often sides in Dispel and Spell Pierce and has access to Vines of Vastwood and Apostle's Blessing so don't rely on catching them off guard during an attack to get full value out of nerfing their pump spells. This relates to the first point.
-Inkmoth Nexus is the key to this matchup and the toughest card to deal with- Because we have so much removal, inkmoth nexus becomes their most important threat. Most games I lose come down to inkmoth.
-You can take up to 4 poison counters before your in danger of most one turn kills (thanks Need_More_DPS).
-Tempo, not full control is key- While we are the control player in this matchup, we have to keep the pressure on the infect player so they cannot get comfortable and sit back to make the perfect attack. We want them to be forced to play their pump spells into our counter magic.
Recap
This is a matchup that does take some time to master, but once you have experience against infect you will most likely be very comfortable seeing it across the table. The jeskai way deck is slightly favored in game one and is even more favored in games 2 and 3. This matchup relies heavily on play skill on both sides so practice is key.
But i was told "if i wanted to cut resto something is wrong cuz she is a key card in the deck. She is certainly better than knight errant".
Is it wrong to cut a reactive card for proactive? What am i doing with resto? Protecting geist, or saving a v clique. What can i do with knight errant? Bash a 5/5 flying geist alongside its angel, and not have to worry about saving it. So i think elspeth is more right for the way i wanna play the deck.
Am i crazy? Or does that make sense? Would people recommend trying to work with both?
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
I am afraid that is the problem with the thinking of some of the members on here and many other sites. They don't put themselves in the deck builder's shoes and try to understand what the deck is ultimately trying to accomplish. They see a "net deck" and assume every decision made for that deck is the "right" card and therefore anything else is wrong. We all know that way of thinking is most likely incorrect because decks should always be evolving to meet the meta meta and should also be an extension of how the deck builder wants to play the deck.
***To avoid a rant and get a simple answer skip to the bottom***
When someone says something like that I like to ask why? Why would cutting Resto for Ellie be "wrong" and why is resto "better" than Elspeth Knight Errant. Even comparing the two ards on a scale of better or worse is nearly impossible since they are very different style cards so I don't know how that person considers Resto "better". But that's another topic entirely.
The simplest question I ask myself is what am I trying to do with the top end (or mid/top end in your case) of my deck. If a protective/evasion/value creature is what your looking for than Resto would probably suite the deck better (notice it's not a better card). If you want to finish the game out or put pressure on the opponent at that point than Elspeth would be better, especially if your concentrating on getting a Geist to resolve mid game. If you would like both things as an option run both. In the end one of the cards will show up in playing as the superior choice for that certain deck.
As an example, in my build I want to pull away with card advantage if I am behind and I want to put the game away if I am ahead. Therefore, Chandra is the best choice for my top end. She can give me pseudo card advantage on an empty board or can ping/clear away blockers if I am ahead. Ellie would also be a great choice for my personal deck and playstyle. However, Resto does not accomplish all of these things and therefore is most likely a lesser choice for my personal deck because I don't run a lot of bounce targets to gain card advantage. If I did run wall of omens, v clique, 4x snapcaster, then resto would likely be a better choice, but I do not.
I typically quickly dismiss any response that is simply "This card is better" with no explanation as to why it's better in context. Another one I particularly hate that often comes from a famous streamer (who I generally enjoy unless he is in one of his bad moods) that rhymes with Jichael Macobs is "If I have to explain it than you don't get it". That's the same thing as saying, "I can't explain it because it's just my opinion and I don't have a good answer so I won't give one". In the end it's ok to be wrong as long as you tried something and had a a valid reason for trying it. Every new deck/idea has been built by people who were willing to fail.
****Sorry for the long rant to a simple question, but I am not a fan of negative, non-constructive responses. Obviously I am a fan of long winded responses :). I do think Cryptic Command is in a tough place right now with an increase in play of lower costed counter spells in tempo decks and the UWR midrange decks. I have not like Resto in my personal build as explained above so I am on the Ellie side of that argument. Resto just never seemed like a big enough affect on the top end of my CMC scale to make a solid difference in the late game. However, it really just depends on what your trying to accomplish. If you are want to finish out a game or pull away then Ellie is likely the better choice. If you run a lot of bounce targets, play a decent amount of counter magic (where the flash becomes very important), and can finish a game by attacking for 3 at a time in the air then resto is likely the better choice. Go with what you prefer and what fits best in your style and for your game plan. Also can you post your recent list so I can get a better feel for it. Always good to hear from you Rurtherjc.
3x Geist of Saint Traft
2x Restoration Angel
4x Snapcaster Mage
1x Thundermaw Hellkite
2x Vendilion Clique
1x Electrolyze
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Lightning Helix
2x Mana Leak
4x Path to Exile
2x Remand
2x Spell Snare
2x Elspeth, Knight Errant
4x Arid Mesa
4x Celestial Colonnade
1x Ghost Quarter
4x Flooded Strand
1x Glacial Fortress
1x Hallowed Fountain
2x Island
1x Plains
1x Mountain
2x Sacred Foundry
2x Steam Vents
2x Sulfur Falls
1x Celestial Purge
1x Dispel
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Izzet staticaster
1x Negate
1x Pithing Needle
2x Relic of progenitus
2x Stony Silence
1x Supreme Verdict
2x Timely Reinforcements
1x Wear // Tear
Hey guys thanks for the support and the responses! :') lol
I should i have said my updated list was posted on the last page but here it is again. I took out cryptic command, because the triple blue wasn't working out well.
At first i wanted another electrolyze, but i decided to make it another elspeth. I'll be going to modern on Wednesday after work so ill have a report to type out for everyone hopefully
So i decided to try 2 each right now. I havent seen resto in ANY match yet so i have no idea how shes been, but elsepth has been outstanding in my testing. If i see her too muchon Wednesday ill know to go back to one and add something else lol
I want to add another anger of the gods in my sideboard but i cant find room for it. That abzan company match is stupid, and i hate losing to it, so im trying to do the best i can to prepare for it, and it will also help the zoo/aggro/affinity matchups.
I also might consider vandalblast for the sideboard. Lantern control doesnt run many counterspells, and it would be destructive if i drew this instead of wear/tear, especially if multiple ensnaring bridge is keeping me locked down.
And don't ever apologize cardboard for giving a detailed response, id rather read a detailed good response than a 2 worder... needmoredps lol
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Nonetheless good luck!
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
4x Stormchaser Mage
3x Snapcaster Mage
4x Mantis Rider
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant (considering Ajani because of his ability to be a Helix)
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
4x Boros Charm
3x Jeskai Charm
4x Lava Spike
4x Path to Exile
2x Scalding Tarn
3x Flooded Strand
2x Steam Vents
2x Sacred Foundry
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Sulfur Falls
1x Clifftop Retreat
2x Island
3x Mountain
2x Plains
2x Anger of the Gods
2x Spell Pierce
1x Negate
1x Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
2x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Wear// Tear
2x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Stony Silence
2x Aven Mindcensor
Ral Zarek might be an even better idea than Ajani Vengeant because of higher loyalty and a better +1.
Also, have you considered Chandra's Phoenix in the Mantis Rider slot ?
It's weaker and has no Vigilance but is rather resilient with all the burn spells+Chandra to bring it back (which is relevant as both die to L.Bolt).
And I forgot about Ral, he might be worth considering.
it was a good run nonetheless!
i been running rift bolts because of the option to choose the target. the delayed prowess trigger also gives your opponent something to think about. many times i had opponents not cast a creature because they know they will lose it to the rift bolt and rather take the blunt of the damage the following turn.
taking a minimum of 5 damage the following turn (swiftspear with prowess trigger) goes a long way to end the game. i might cut a few Boros Charms, Jeskai Charms and a Lava Spike to go for a full set of rift bolts. =)
i have been wanting to sneak in lava spikes into my deck but i am too fond of my Serum Visions and Gitaxian Probes for gas.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
Rift Bolt is an interesting idea. Especially if you can pair it with a swiftspear. I really like the idea of Seal of Fire as well. You can cast it whenever you have free mana for a prowess trigger and then do the two damage whenever you need it. There are lots of ways to go with a more burn oriented prowess deck so I am really excited to see what you end up with. Both options are extremely interesting and give a lot of playability to the deck. They can also add up to realy big turns with rebound spells.
Hi D90Dennis. Good to hear from you again.
I love some of these suggestions. I hadn't even considered Chandra's Phoenix for a burn heavy deck. That is something worth looking into.
Also, I love me some Ral Zarek. The only deck I could ever get him to work in was my lightning blitz deck, but I have a special place in my heart for Ral.
I have never been a huge fan of playing artifacts (other than the sword cycle) due to all of the hate for artifacts, however, they do trigger prowess and we might get some really cool stuff. What do you all think? Do you think Kaladesh will concentrate on prowess or just have a small number of prowess "throw-ins". Either way I am excited to visit a UR heavy plane.
artifacts, burn and some cool izzet cards! i can't wait to see what the commons and uncommons will bring us!
the few artifacts that i actually do play in modern are Chromatic Star, Relic of Progenitus and Nihil Spellbomb. it would be pretty cool if we get some sort of low to the ground artifact that could fit into our deck like:
2
Artifact
All your creatures have Prowess.
oh well... we can dream.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
I've got no Snapcaster Mages (too expensive) and Delver of Secrets/Thing in the Ice seem not very good here so I decided to go with Myth Realized.
Here it is:
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Stormchaser Mage
4x Abbot of Keral Keep
1x Chandra's Phoenix
Enchantment (3)
3x Myth Realized
Planeswalker (2)
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
1x Ral Zarek
Instant (18)
4x Boros Charm
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
4x Path to Exile
2x Searing Blaze
4x Rift Bolt
Land (20)
3x Bloodstained Mire
1x Clifftop Retreat
4x Flooded Strand
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
4x Mountain
2x Plains
3x Sacred Foundry
1x Steam Vents
1x Ajani Vengeant
1x Deflecting Palm
2x Detention Sphere
2x Mana Leak
1x Negate
2x Remand
2x Spell Snare
2x Supreme Verdict
2x Wear // Tear
I'm still not sure about the sideboard as it seems rather weak to Burn so I consider adding Kor Firewalker/Timely Reinforcements (possibly instead of Remand).
Maybe Seeker of the Way or Soulfire Grand Master would be a better option ?
What do you think ?
i think the first draft of your deck looks good, especially if it caters to your playstyle. your addition of myth realized is a cool one. i have experience using that card in other attrition based decks and i think it is a cool card in jeskai tempo archetypes as a early drop and let it grow as you tempo out your opponent and activate it for the kill.
i used to run about 3 stormchaser mages but has cut it down to a 1 of in the deck. he just isn't aggressive enough but a late game 1/3 prowess flyer can end things quickly. then again, there is mantis rider! my main issue with stormchaser mage is that i want a 2 power creature on turn 2 and if you run mantis rider, you have a turn 3 drop that flies to press the board.
abbot of the keral keep is a cool card but i am not very good with him. too often i was tempted to take a risk and play him early to try and flip a land or 1 cc spell.... and fail. i pretty much replaced him altogether with delver of secrets lol
chandra's phoneix as a one off is a cool addition. it will surprise a fair share of opponents.
ral zarek is an interesting card that have been tested by others here. i think they can chime in about him.
i think your manabase looks fine but if you experience any issues do sound out. it took me much play testing to finally settled on 2 steam vents than 1 in my version.
things to consider:
cantrip / gas. chandra pyromancer as a late game play is a bomb. i run a playset of serum visions and gitaxian probes for that. needless to say, both spells also trigger prowess and adds tokens to myth realized. the synergy is real here! you have the abbot for that so it might be enough.
i run 2 seeker of the way maindeck and i used to run 1 soulfire grandmaster. i love seeker of the way as a turn 2 drop but i cannot run more of him because i need a saturation of aggressive 1 mana drops (swiftspear, delver) to follow up with aggressive 2 drops (young pyromancer, seeker of the way, stormchaser mage). my success with soulfire grandmaster is a mixed one. as a late drop with spells in ur hand, she can win you the game all by herself. but in all my games of playtesting, the times she actually did it were few and far as my opponents usually killed her the moment she resolved.
soulfire grandmaster is a very powerful creature. the speed which all my opponents reacted to deal with her is evident.
you have swiftspear and myth realized as your 1 drop so that is a thing.
i think your deck looks very aggressive and you should give it a few games to break it in. i suspect searing blaze can be replaced with something else.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
The downside is the 3-toughness but if it sticks it can get pretty big.
Another creature option is Chandra's Spitfire which seems not bad in burn-heavy lists.
Another interesting spell for more midrange builds is Epic Experiment.
I went 1-2. Beat some newb starting out who didn't have really any good slivers in his deck.
Lost against Elves 1-2.
Lost against U/B Fairies 0-2. This guy spanked me, and it wasnt a friendly spanking lol the first game i see not 1, not 2, but 3 ancestral visions and 1 mana leak from my side... thats it lol
This other store im playing at has a lot more jund and aggro decks, so im going to have to adjust accordingly.
My sideboard is going to have 2 anger of the gods thats for sure.
Guys... i still dont like resto, might be time for lighting angel! And back down to 1 elspeth, i added a remand for now.
Also everytime i see v clique, i see both of them together... so i might go down to 1 v clique and throw in something else lol
More to come once i get some free time.
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Those are some tough matchups there. Elves and Fairies both require some sideboard help. The only cards I have in the board for them are Engineered Explosives and Detention Sphere and then random decent cards. Two angers would be phenomenal against those two decks. Anger of The Gods is just really well positioned right now. Unfortunately, I can't run it in my deck because I depend on my threats too much. I thought about trying a one of Bonfire of the Damned in my board to see if that would work well with the serum visions, but I just don't think I have enough mana to make it worth while when I don't miracle it. I also hate being forced to cast it when I do miracle it.
I like V.Clique right now. It is very killable and isn't actual card advantage, but its great against midrange decks which is where the meta has gone lately. I think you are correct about resto angel. I just don't think it's great right now. People are winning quickly or big so there is really no place for a midrange flier to dominate. Don't get me wrong, she is a great card, just not great right now. I think there are better options at 4 mana. I noticed greatnate was running a one of Gideon, Ally of Zendikar to give Geist +1/+1 counters and it looked really cool. Worst case scenario its a 5/5 Indestructible that soaks up damage. That might be good too.
There is a ton of customization in this deck so make sure it feels great to you. Confidence is key.
I like this take on the deck. I think Abbot is very good in the aggressive/burn style prowess decks so I like him as a 4-of. I too was not super impressed when playing stormchaser mage so if you do make a cut to the creature suite that is where I would start.
Because your attacking on the ground I would suggest possibly adding Emerge Unscathed to the list. This also gives protection to your Myth Realized when they keep their removal for when you animate it. I would def run two of these. I would suggest cutting a rift bolt and a boros charms. Boros charms are great but they can get stuck in your hand in multiples. In addition, you are adding a protection spell to the deck so cutting one protection spell makes sense.
Other than that I can't wait to see how this plays out. It looks really awesome. Keep us posted!
As for spellheart chimera I brewed with that card a ton when it first came out and just couldn't get it to work. I was playing iw with Runechanter's Pike and a bunch of spells in a RUG deck. I haven't tried it heare, but it would probably fit best in the aggressive/burn versions.
I would love to see Epic Experiment work in a deck. It actually could be a great top end card to a Jeskai burn deck. It doesn't fit my personal temp style deck, but the card is sweet and we should def brew with it.
2 Island
4 Flooded Strand
2 Mountain
2 Plains
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Steam Vents
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Sulfur Falls
CREATURES
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
1 Monastery Mentor
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Electrolyze
2 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
3 Remand
4 Serum Visions
3 Path to Exile
OTHER SPELLS
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Dispel
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Negate
2 Rest in Peace
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Wear// Tear
i have a foil epic experiment lying in my box. i will stick one in to replace electrolyze and report back how it works out. the low mana base of my deck might blank the card but with a few prowess creatures on board, a mid game X=3 can seal the game without even attacking.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
I really hadn't thought of the power level of this card with prowess creatures on the board That's a great point. I REALLY hope this works out. It sounds awesome. Thanks for bringing this card back up D90Dennis14.
I'm starting a new series that will detail one matchup in depth each time I test (probably twice a week). Each time I test I will chose one matchup to test against extensively. By extensively I mean anywhere between 10-30 games depending on how much time we have; so it's not going an complete guide, but it will give me enough information to see general trends in the matchups. I will talk about the pre-boarded games, give a estimate of our percentage wo win (based on my personal opinion with my personal deck), sideboard tips, and then talk about the post boarded strategy. In the end I will talk about the matchup as a whole and what strategies I personally impliment in these matchups. I will list games notes from each testing session in a separate area for those who want to see how the actual games played out. I'm not a pro so please feel free to tell me if/when you disagree with my analysis and where I did something wrong. In the end I will put these all together in a guide that will go on the new primer (whenever I get it done). Without further adieu, here is the first opponent- Infect.
UWR Jeskai Prowess UWR vs GBU Infect GBU
Infect- Dan Jessup- SCG Indianapolis
4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Viridian Corrupter
Instant [22]
2 Apostle's Blessing
4 Become Immense
1 Dismember
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Mutagenic Growth
1 Spell Pierce
2 Twisted Image
4 Vines of Vastwood
1 Distortion Strike
4 Gitaxian Probe
Land [20]
2 Breeding Pool
2 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Pendelhaven
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Dispel
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Nature's Claim
1 Negate
1 Pulse of Murasa
1 Wild Defiance
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Dismember
4x Delver of Secrets
3x Monastery Swiftspear
3x Geist of Saint Traft
2x Snapcaster Mage
1x Abbot of Keral Keep
1x Grim Lavamancer
Instant/Sorcery (26)
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Lightning Helix
2x Distortion Strike
1x Emerge Unscathed
3x Path to Exile
2x Remand
2x Spell Pierce
1x Izzet Charm
1x Electrolyze
1x Vapor Snag
1x Boros Charm
4x Serum Visions
2x Gitaxian Probe
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
Land (19)
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Flooded Strand
2x Seachrome Coast
2x Sulfur Falls
2x Island
1x Plains
1x Mountain
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Steam Vents
1x Nahiri, the Harbinger
1x Celestial Purge
1x Dispel
1x Hallowed Moonlight
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Negate
1x Deflecting Palm
1x Aven Mindcensor
2x Stony Silence
1x Detention Sphere
2x Spreading Seas
1x Wear // Tear
The odds
Pre-Board - 55/45 - Favored
Post-Board- 60/40 - Favored
The matchup- While infect is the boogeyman for a lot of decks in modern, we actually have a fairly good matchup against them. Lightning Bolt, Path to Exile, Lightning Helix, Spell Pierce, Izzet Charm, Snapcaster Mage, etc are all great here and we have enough pressure to get them dead before they can kill us if our removal holds. Infect is fast enough and powerful enough to win through our removal and disruption. Although we are favored, infect is still a very stupid deck that breaks the rules of magic by starting you at 10 life so infect is no push-over.
Sideboarding
In- Deflecting Palm, Engineered Explosives, Wear // Tear, Negate, Dispel, Nahiri, the Harbinger, Spellskite, Spreading Seas
Out- 2x Remand, 2x Distortion Strike, Monastery Swiftspear, Boros Charm, Emerge Unscathed, Abbot of Keral Keep
Other options- Anger of the Gods, Flashfreeze, Spell Snare
What The Opponent Often Sideboards Against Jeskai Way- The opponent will often sideboard in 1-2 spellskites, and 2-4 dispels/negates. In addition, some decks have increased removal in Abrupt Decay and Dismember and some infect decks will side in Wild Defiance. Although most infect decks do not play choke because they often play blue mana, the GB version can play Choke.
Sideboaring Explanation and Post Board Strategy- We want to become a lean mean removal/disruption machine post sideboard. We will be taking the control role here, but will want to play it more as tempo/control rather than a pure control or late game strategy. Deflecting Palm is the best sideboard card here because they can pump their infect creatures to their heart's desire and we simply redirect the damage back to them (it's not infect damage when redirected). Negate and Dispel are strict upgrades to remand post board. Because they side in spellskites and because they often don't block much we can side out our rebound spells. Wear // Tear is also very good here because it kills the aforementioned spellskites and also gives us protection if the opponent sides in Choke or Wild Defiance. Most of their infectors and mana dorks are 1 and two drops so Engineered Explosives gives us a chance at a possible two or three for one. In addition, it can be backup protection against Inkmoth Nexus by setting it on 0. Speaking of Inkmoth Nexus, Spreading Seas does a great job of removing it and could also take the opponent off of a color (black or blue} because they often play very few lands. Finally, Nahiri, the Harbinger is further protection from any enchantments they bring in, is additional creature removal, and helps us finish out the game. Nahiri is not great here so if you would rather have the extra pressure of Abbot of Keral Keep or Monastery Swiftspear you can forgo siding her in, especially on the draw.
Trends and Vital Points
-Kill their creatures early and often- This includes [c]Noble Hierarch[/c[. Don't let them have a single creature stay on the board if you can manage it. Their deck relies heavily on an infect creature and they will often "waste" pump spells to protect a creature on their turn so go after them. I'm not suggesting to play lose so back up your removal with disruption when possible, but you do need to be aggressive with your removal.
-Utilize the upkeep step and end of turn- Make them tap mana on their turn before combat or on your own turn as much as you can. It's best if they have to protect or pump creatures at any time other than during the combat step. That way we have as much information during the combat step as we can possibly get (outside of gitaxian probe).
-Infect will often win the "stack wars"- This is related to the prior point. The infect deck often sides in Dispel and Spell Pierce and has access to Vines of Vastwood and Apostle's Blessing so don't rely on catching them off guard during an attack to get full value out of nerfing their pump spells. This relates to the first point.
-Inkmoth Nexus is the key to this matchup and the toughest card to deal with- Because we have so much removal, inkmoth nexus becomes their most important threat. Most games I lose come down to inkmoth.
-You can take up to 4 poison counters before your in danger of most one turn kills (thanks Need_More_DPS).
-Tempo, not full control is key- While we are the control player in this matchup, we have to keep the pressure on the infect player so they cannot get comfortable and sit back to make the perfect attack. We want them to be forced to play their pump spells into our counter magic.
Recap
This is a matchup that does take some time to master, but once you have experience against infect you will most likely be very comfortable seeing it across the table. The jeskai way deck is slightly favored in game one and is even more favored in games 2 and 3. This matchup relies heavily on play skill on both sides so practice is key.