so how the combo works is to get mirror-mad phantasm in the grave with a Séance in play. then you seance out the mirror-mad on the opponent's turn and use its 1U ability to shuffle it into the deck. since seance actually exiles the card and replaces it with a token, the mirror-mad will mill out your whole deck. then on your turn you seance out lab maniac and win. if the opponent has a response to it, you can flashback think twice or cast a thought scour to draw a card for the win.
a few things to note is that seance does not give the token haste. second, you can seance on each upkeep. this is still just an idea im working on though so there's not really a sideboard as of yet.
Have you thought about Ideas Unbound to dig and to remove extra fluff from your hand? It can help you get quite deep and toss extra Seance or the combo piece itself. Could you also add more fetchlands for Hedron Crab? I would also want more counters since only 3 mana leak seems weak, and add a few Snapcaster Mage since it has such positive interaction with cards in the bin and Seance itself.
Is there also a reason for 4x Labratory Maniac? It seems like 1 or 2 would perform just fine. And since you are a combo deck, why Blade Splicer at all? It seems like if you want tempo http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=227222 or http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=370430 would be better. If you don't need tempo Court Hussar looks like good card selection. I could also see including 4x Mulldrifter for the insane value. Vendillion Clique is also alright value if you can afford a slot for the card (And if double blue is ok, that also opens up Venser, Shaper Savant). Since you're maxed on Thought Scour, Sage of Epityr seems like it turns into card selection, since you can turn 1 cast him, mill yourself + draw on upkeep to toss 2 cards to the yard and draw 2 (coincidentally, all the cards you just looked at). If this means you are casting your entire hand very fast because everything is approaching a lower mana cost, try using Slithermuse to fill your hand back up. This card is especially fun to reanimate when playing against control.
If you can get creatures into the yard and are starting to reanimate (Such as going the Tiagam's Scheming route, which is a slightly different strategy), Phyrexian Ingester exiles problems. If people are killing things you control, try Plaxmanta. Since we're being greedy here, Perplexing Chimera on an opponents upkeep from Seance is super, super mean. While doing super, super mean things, there is also reanimating Sphinx of Uthuun, which puts cards to the graveyard or hand and sometimes flipping your clone effects too, which puts a big percentage of your deck either in your hand or your graveyard, whichever is better for you.
Boy, I thought I would have a short post here of just a couple ideas but Seance really opens up a lot of potential.
Well, if you found any of this of interest or useful please come back and post what you've found, liked, tested, didn't like, or any other comments because I'm excited now =)
wow you definitely came up with more stuff than i've ever thought of. a lot of these cards i didn't even know about so this helps quite a bit. the main reason i had 4 lab maniac was because i wasn't really sure what to add and the same goes for the random blade splicer. i really like the idea of the hussar, sage, and ideas unbound for all the filtering. with all of that i'd definitely be able to go down to 1 or 2 lab maniacs.
muldrifter has been on my radar for something to test, but i just haven't gotten around to it yet. Now with all those other filtering cards, it definitely seems like an auto-include. evoking it then seance-ing it on your opponent's turn is gonna feel sweet! i also quite like the slithermuse as a 1 or 2-of since ideally i'm gonna be playing a bunch of cards and the refill will definitely be nice.
overall, i really like your suggestions! i'm gonna work on it some more and come back it a while with a new list. thanks a ton
so i added some of your ideas and took out some of the unneeded filler like blade splicers, phantasmal image, and mana leaks. i'm not sure how much control will be necessary so i just took it out altogether for the moment aside from paths. once i actually start playtesting it and see how it does i'll probably have to readjust it again for more/less control. i also added some polluted deltas for more hedron crab milling and the extra search for hallowed fountain is always nice.
one thing i'm considering is a 1 or 2-of celestial colonnade just in case i actually have to do some beats if the game goes long. i've also been thinking about adding black for cards like forbidden alchemy, rune-scarred demon, shriekmaw, etc. it would also make polluted deltas more useful too.
"110.5g A token that has left the battlefield can’t move to another zone or come back onto the
battlefield. If such a token would change zones, it remains in its current zone instead. It ceases
to exist the next time state-based actions are checked; see rule 704."
I was super excited by this combo when I read about it last night, but after reading the card over and over, I realized that it might not actually work. Perfunctory search of CR confirmed my fears :/
This combo works fine, you can activate the ability of the token and mill your deck.
"110.5g A token that has left the battlefield can’t move to another zone or come back onto the
battlefield. If such a token would change zones, it remains in its current zone instead. It ceases
to exist the next time state-based actions are checked; see rule 704."
I was super excited by this combo when I read about it last night, but after reading the card over and over, I realized that it might not actually work. Perfunctory search of CR confirmed my fears :/
But it does work, unless I'm missing something?
I played this deck when it was in Standard.
Instead of 4x Maniacs I'd run the usual Angel of Glory's Rise + Azami, Lady of Scrolls pile. It's a lot more resilient towards removal -> tap Maniac or Azami in response (or some other random Wizard). If you play like 1x Angel, 1x Azami and 2 Maniacs instead he's gonna need 5 instant speed removal spells to stop you. This way you don't have to keep up Think Twice mana.
I'd also go less all in on the combo (I have tried similar approaches in Modern before) and add more castable value creatures instead of spells to try to just beat down with midrange dorks.
Another thing worth exploring is splashing green, since it gives us access to stuff like Commune with the Gods and Satyr Wayfinder. Green also gives us Birds/Hierarch (to speed up the process) and Kitchen Finks/Thragtusk (good midrange beaters that are good with Seance too).
EDIT: Golgari Grave-Troll + Eternal Witness is also a way to speed up the process. Grave-Troll finding Phantasm and Witness returning Seance if it's dredged into the yard. Or with a Seance online you can start making Witness tokens and return disruption spells to your hand.
Reveillark (returning stuff like Satyr Wayfinder, Witness and Mulldrifter) is also a nice way of keeping the chain going. Especially if you add 1 or 2 Glen Elendra Archmages. Since she can help protect you against blow outs like Wear//Tear on Seance or Rakdos Charm (exiling GY) after Phantasm activation = auto loss.
Pretty much like a Pod deck. Run out a bunch of beaters and hate bears, try to resolve the big main engine, extract a bunch of value and threaten with a
combo win. Don't know if there's enough ways to dump stuff into the yard though I guess Lark returning Satyr Wayfinders and Hedron Crabs and Resto blinking Wayfinder goes a long way. Another concern is that there's no discard outlets if you're stuck with the combo in hand (EDIT: though I guess Fauna Shamancould work if she survives a turn. Especially since she can search up Mirror-Mad or just chain Satyr Wayfinders together).
And no room for Path. That's probably gonna be an issue vs. Twin. But other than that, this is close to where I'd start myself
Given that this is more of a G/U/w deck now, are you sure you can hit the mana for the Voice on turn 2? wouldn't Wall of Roots be better as either a speed bump or mana acceleration?
This deck doesn't really want to win through attacking anyway.
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Given that this is more of a G/U/w deck now, are you sure you can hit the mana for the Voice on turn 2? wouldn't Wall of Roots be better as either a speed bump or mana acceleration?
This deck doesn't really want to win through attacking anyway.
That's true. Though I guess that any Bant deck would auto run 3 or 4 Razorverge Thickets. T1: Mana dork into T2: Voice + mana dork would probably also be a common thing. And in general I don't think that tri-color decks should be too concerned about not hitting all 3 colors T2. But yeah Wall of Roots is nice too. Has slightly more synergy with a Séance out. But on the flip side going T2 Voice into a T3 Séance seems good against blue decks.
I'm not sure I agree with that the deck doesn't wana win through attacking. I mean the combo is fine but also really really slow and vulnerable -> any instant speed GY hate or Enchantment removal not only stops it cold but also auto loses you the game (if cast after Mirror-Mad activation). I don't think that the combo is strong enough to be the main thing that the deck wants to be doing
Given that this is more of a G/U/w deck now, are you sure you can hit the mana for the Voice on turn 2? wouldn't Wall of Roots be better as either a speed bump or mana acceleration?
This deck doesn't really want to win through attacking anyway.
That's true. Though I guess that any Bant deck would auto run 3 or 4 Razorverge Thickets. T1: Mana dork into T2: Voice + mana dork would probably also be a common thing. And in general I don't think that tri-color decks should be too concerned about not hitting all 3 colors T2. But yeah Wall of Roots is nice too. Has slightly more synergy with a Séance out. But on the flip side going T2 Voice into a T3 Séance seems good against blue decks.
I'm not sure I agree with that the deck doesn't wana win through attacking. I mean the combo is fine but also really really slow and vulnerable -> any instant speed GY hate or Enchantment removal not only stops it cold but also auto loses you the game (if cast after Mirror-Mad activation). I don't think that the combo is strong enough to be the main thing that the deck wants to be doing
I do not see how the deck can reliably get 20 damage through. It isn't inconceivable, but it seems unlikely.
It is probably too cute, but Torrent Elemental and Seance are besties.
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Given that this is more of a G/U/w deck now, are you sure you can hit the mana for the Voice on turn 2? wouldn't Wall of Roots be better as either a speed bump or mana acceleration?
This deck doesn't really want to win through attacking anyway.
That's true. Though I guess that any Bant deck would auto run 3 or 4 Razorverge Thickets. T1: Mana dork into T2: Voice + mana dork would probably also be a common thing. And in general I don't think that tri-color decks should be too concerned about not hitting all 3 colors T2. But yeah Wall of Roots is nice too. Has slightly more synergy with a Séance out. But on the flip side going T2 Voice into a T3 Séance seems good against blue decks.
I'm not sure I agree with that the deck doesn't wana win through attacking. I mean the combo is fine but also really really slow and vulnerable -> any instant speed GY hate or Enchantment removal not only stops it cold but also auto loses you the game (if cast after Mirror-Mad activation). I don't think that the combo is strong enough to be the main thing that the deck wants to be doing
I do not see how the deck can reliably get 20 damage through. It isn't inconceivable, but it seems unlikely.
It is probably too cute, but Torrent Elemental and Seance are besties.
Then you've never played Pod before
2 Voice, 1 Ooze, 2 Finks, 2 Resto, 1 Thragtusk and 2 Lark + (other random beaters and a couple of Township) should be enough. Pretty close to the beat down suite of Kiki Pod lists. Not to mention what happens when you get Séance online and start returning a bunch of beaters by chaining Reveillarks together.
Torrent Elemental could work. When the deck was played in Standard some people boarded in Misthollow Griffin against slower decks and R.I.P. I'm not sure if it's worth playing over Lark or Thragtusk though but if it's ever gonna be playable: this is probably the deck.
I was wondering, are you playing the voice of resurgence in the hope to Séance it back? I don't think that works, otherwise the card would be quite awesome in this deck.
I'm not. It's just another hate bear that puts on the pressure. I mean there's a lot of cards in my list that's bad with Seance (Birds, Hierarch, Glen Elendra and ScOoze (both semi bad)). They do all come back with Lark though.
Given that this is more of a G/U/w deck now, are you sure you can hit the mana for the Voice on turn 2? wouldn't Wall of Roots be better as either a speed bump or mana acceleration?
This deck doesn't really want to win through attacking anyway.
That's true. Though I guess that any Bant deck would auto run 3 or 4 Razorverge Thickets. T1: Mana dork into T2: Voice + mana dork would probably also be a common thing. And in general I don't think that tri-color decks should be too concerned about not hitting all 3 colors T2. But yeah Wall of Roots is nice too. Has slightly more synergy with a Séance out. But on the flip side going T2 Voice into a T3 Séance seems good against blue decks.
I'm not sure I agree with that the deck doesn't wana win through attacking. I mean the combo is fine but also really really slow and vulnerable -> any instant speed GY hate or Enchantment removal not only stops it cold but also auto loses you the game (if cast after Mirror-Mad activation). I don't think that the combo is strong enough to be the main thing that the deck wants to be doing
I do not see how the deck can reliably get 20 damage through. It isn't inconceivable, but it seems unlikely.
It is probably too cute, but Torrent Elemental and Seance are besties.
Then you've never played Pod before
2 Voice, 1 Ooze, 2 Finks, 2 Resto, 1 Thragtusk and 2 Lark + (other random beaters and a couple of Township) should be enough. Pretty close to the beat down suite of Kiki Pod lists. Not to mention what happens when you get Séance online and start returning a bunch of beaters by chaining Reveillarks together.
Torrent Elemental could work. When the deck was played in Standard some people boarded in Misthollow Griffin against slower decks and R.I.P. I'm not sure if it's worth playing over Lark or Thragtusk though but if it's ever gonna be playable: this is probably the deck.
I have never played pod. I would assume this deck wants to have the reach of Gavony Township, but a colorless land is a liability.
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I've been trying various builds of this deck (Esper, Bant, and 4c) and I'm convinced that the best way to do this is to port it into a Gifts Control shell,which gets you the plan-b of Unburial Rites + Iona, Shield of Emeria (or whatever other fattie you want). Esper gets us Corpse Connoisseur as well, which can dump LabMan or Phantasm into the yard when you need it.
Kitchen Finks is solid tech that works outside of a Bant shell, but Bant also does get you Commune with the Gods, allowing you to fetch Seance. Honestly I was very excited about this deck's prospects post-ban, but I mistakenly assumed that Dig Through Time (easily the best card in any blue combo deck except maybe UR Storm) wouldn't get the axe.
I'll see if I can find one of my old Esper/4c lists and post it.
hopefully i'll be able to run this at tomorrorw's modern fnm. i'm thinking probably esper colors for the corpse connoisseur and maybe give leveler a shot.i'll post a list later when i got something more solid
as 1 ofs in the deck they seem like decent back up conditions if you did lose pieces of the main combo.
for what the deck is i'd just stuff the rest of it with wrath effects and disruption to buy yourself time and ward of hate cards.
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Seems worse than Wake the Reflections. I have actually thought about it could be cool to make a value Seance deck with Wake+Witness as a "build your own Thoptor/Sword" kinda deal. It's probably too cute though.
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4X laboratory maniac
1x mirror-mad phantasm
4x think twice
4x thought scour
4x mana leak
4x path to exile
4x hedron crab
4x blade splicer
4x phantasmal image
4x hallowed fountain
4x flooded strand
4x glacial fortress
7x island
4x plains
so how the combo works is to get mirror-mad phantasm in the grave with a Séance in play. then you seance out the mirror-mad on the opponent's turn and use its 1U ability to shuffle it into the deck. since seance actually exiles the card and replaces it with a token, the mirror-mad will mill out your whole deck. then on your turn you seance out lab maniac and win. if the opponent has a response to it, you can flashback think twice or cast a thought scour to draw a card for the win.
a few things to note is that seance does not give the token haste. second, you can seance on each upkeep. this is still just an idea im working on though so there's not really a sideboard as of yet.
Is there also a reason for 4x Labratory Maniac? It seems like 1 or 2 would perform just fine. And since you are a combo deck, why Blade Splicer at all? It seems like if you want tempo http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=227222 or http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=370430 would be better. If you don't need tempo Court Hussar looks like good card selection. I could also see including 4x Mulldrifter for the insane value. Vendillion Clique is also alright value if you can afford a slot for the card (And if double blue is ok, that also opens up Venser, Shaper Savant). Since you're maxed on Thought Scour, Sage of Epityr seems like it turns into card selection, since you can turn 1 cast him, mill yourself + draw on upkeep to toss 2 cards to the yard and draw 2 (coincidentally, all the cards you just looked at). If this means you are casting your entire hand very fast because everything is approaching a lower mana cost, try using Slithermuse to fill your hand back up. This card is especially fun to reanimate when playing against control.
If you can get creatures into the yard and are starting to reanimate (Such as going the Tiagam's Scheming route, which is a slightly different strategy), Phyrexian Ingester exiles problems. If people are killing things you control, try Plaxmanta. Since we're being greedy here, Perplexing Chimera on an opponents upkeep from Seance is super, super mean. While doing super, super mean things, there is also reanimating Sphinx of Uthuun, which puts cards to the graveyard or hand and sometimes flipping your clone effects too, which puts a big percentage of your deck either in your hand or your graveyard, whichever is better for you.
Boy, I thought I would have a short post here of just a couple ideas but Seance really opens up a lot of potential.
Well, if you found any of this of interest or useful please come back and post what you've found, liked, tested, didn't like, or any other comments because I'm excited now =)
muldrifter has been on my radar for something to test, but i just haven't gotten around to it yet. Now with all those other filtering cards, it definitely seems like an auto-include. evoking it then seance-ing it on your opponent's turn is gonna feel sweet! i also quite like the slithermuse as a 1 or 2-of since ideally i'm gonna be playing a bunch of cards and the refill will definitely be nice.
overall, i really like your suggestions! i'm gonna work on it some more and come back it a while with a new list. thanks a ton
2x laboratory maniac
1x mirror-mad phantasm
4x think twice
4x hedron crab
4x mulldrifter
4x thought scour
4x sage of epityr
4x ideas unbound
2x court hussar
4x path to exile
4x hallowed fountain
4x flooded strand
4x glacial fortress
4x polluted delta
5x island
2x plains
so i added some of your ideas and took out some of the unneeded filler like blade splicers, phantasmal image, and mana leaks. i'm not sure how much control will be necessary so i just took it out altogether for the moment aside from paths. once i actually start playtesting it and see how it does i'll probably have to readjust it again for more/less control. i also added some polluted deltas for more hedron crab milling and the extra search for hallowed fountain is always nice.
one thing i'm considering is a 1 or 2-of celestial colonnade just in case i actually have to do some beats if the game goes long. i've also been thinking about adding black for cards like forbidden alchemy, rune-scarred demon, shriekmaw, etc. it would also make polluted deltas more useful too.
This combo works fine, you can activate the ability of the token and mill your deck.
But it does work, unless I'm missing something?
I played this deck when it was in Standard.
Instead of 4x Maniacs I'd run the usual Angel of Glory's Rise + Azami, Lady of Scrolls pile. It's a lot more resilient towards removal -> tap Maniac or Azami in response (or some other random Wizard). If you play like 1x Angel, 1x Azami and 2 Maniacs instead he's gonna need 5 instant speed removal spells to stop you. This way you don't have to keep up Think Twice mana.
I'd also go less all in on the combo (I have tried similar approaches in Modern before) and add more castable value creatures instead of spells to try to just beat down with midrange dorks.
Another thing worth exploring is splashing green, since it gives us access to stuff like Commune with the Gods and Satyr Wayfinder. Green also gives us Birds/Hierarch (to speed up the process) and Kitchen Finks/Thragtusk (good midrange beaters that are good with Seance too).
EDIT: Golgari Grave-Troll + Eternal Witness is also a way to speed up the process. Grave-Troll finding Phantasm and Witness returning Seance if it's dredged into the yard. Or with a Seance online you can start making Witness tokens and return disruption spells to your hand.
Reveillark (returning stuff like Satyr Wayfinder, Witness and Mulldrifter) is also a nice way of keeping the chain going. Especially if you add 1 or 2 Glen Elendra Archmages. Since she can help protect you against blow outs like Wear//Tear on Seance or Rakdos Charm (exiling GY) after Phantasm activation = auto loss.
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Birds of Paradise
2 Voice of Resurgence
4 Satyr Wayfinder
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Reclamation Sage
3 Eternal Witness
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
2 Restoration Angel
1 Thragtusk
2 Reveillark
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Azami, Lady of Scrolls
1 Angel of Glory's Rise
1 Mirror-Mad Phantasm
22 Lands
Pretty much like a Pod deck. Run out a bunch of beaters and hate bears, try to resolve the big main engine, extract a bunch of value and threaten with a
combo win. Don't know if there's enough ways to dump stuff into the yard though I guess Lark returning Satyr Wayfinders and Hedron Crabs and Resto blinking Wayfinder goes a long way. Another concern is that there's no discard outlets if you're stuck with the combo in hand (EDIT: though I guess Fauna Shaman could work if she survives a turn. Especially since she can search up Mirror-Mad or just chain Satyr Wayfinders together).
And no room for Path. That's probably gonna be an issue vs. Twin. But other than that, this is close to where I'd start myself
This deck doesn't really want to win through attacking anyway.
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That's true. Though I guess that any Bant deck would auto run 3 or 4 Razorverge Thickets. T1: Mana dork into T2: Voice + mana dork would probably also be a common thing. And in general I don't think that tri-color decks should be too concerned about not hitting all 3 colors T2. But yeah Wall of Roots is nice too. Has slightly more synergy with a Séance out. But on the flip side going T2 Voice into a T3 Séance seems good against blue decks.
I'm not sure I agree with that the deck doesn't wana win through attacking. I mean the combo is fine but also really really slow and vulnerable -> any instant speed GY hate or Enchantment removal not only stops it cold but also auto loses you the game (if cast after Mirror-Mad activation). I don't think that the combo is strong enough to be the main thing that the deck wants to be doing
I do not see how the deck can reliably get 20 damage through. It isn't inconceivable, but it seems unlikely.
It is probably too cute, but Torrent Elemental and Seance are besties.
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Then you've never played Pod before
2 Voice, 1 Ooze, 2 Finks, 2 Resto, 1 Thragtusk and 2 Lark + (other random beaters and a couple of Township) should be enough. Pretty close to the beat down suite of Kiki Pod lists. Not to mention what happens when you get Séance online and start returning a bunch of beaters by chaining Reveillarks together.
Torrent Elemental could work. When the deck was played in Standard some people boarded in Misthollow Griffin against slower decks and R.I.P. I'm not sure if it's worth playing over Lark or Thragtusk though but if it's ever gonna be playable: this is probably the deck.
I'm not. It's just another hate bear that puts on the pressure. I mean there's a lot of cards in my list that's bad with Seance (Birds, Hierarch, Glen Elendra and ScOoze (both semi bad)). They do all come back with Lark though.
I have never played pod. I would assume this deck wants to have the reach of Gavony Township, but a colorless land is a liability.
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Kitchen Finks is solid tech that works outside of a Bant shell, but Bant also does get you Commune with the Gods, allowing you to fetch Seance. Honestly I was very excited about this deck's prospects post-ban, but I mistakenly assumed that Dig Through Time (easily the best card in any blue combo deck except maybe UR Storm) wouldn't get the axe.
I'll see if I can find one of my old Esper/4c lists and post it.
| Omnath | Zada | Alesha | Scion |
| Mazirek | Animar |
Modern
UR Storm RU
UBRG Dredge GRBU
Standard
UR Thermo-Thing RU
leveler
shared fate
as 1 ofs in the deck they seem like decent back up conditions if you did lose pieces of the main combo.
for what the deck is i'd just stuff the rest of it with wrath effects and disruption to buy yourself time and ward of hate cards.
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Seems worse than Wake the Reflections. I have actually thought about it could be cool to make a value Seance deck with Wake+Witness as a "build your own Thoptor/Sword" kinda deal. It's probably too cute though.