I am running the MTGO list that 5-0'd and here are some of my thoughts.
Blood moon is required, the matchups it does something is to delay long enough to have your PW win the game. It is better than Doubling Season in a lot of matchups
You want your PW to either gum up the board with tokens or be a win condition itself. Gideon Jurra is of course the only PW that really does this without tokens as he can prevent creature decks from hitting Nahiri or forcing a tap down to clear the way for you.
only thing I wish this deck had more of is card draw or filtering. I might play around with cutting the arbor elves for 2 Tamiyo, Field Researchers and possibly 2 Oath of Jace
You want to limit your PW names by 2-3 with the exception of Nahiri who is 3-4. For example, Jace, Unraveler of Secrets might be good but no where near as good as AoT and you want 1-2 of him.
Any PW that costs more than 4 mana better have a good reason. Elspeth can do 3-12 tokens a turn and then anthem or board whipe leaving your tokens. Chandra can do 2-8 3/1 tramplers, board clear or wheel your hand. Jurra can be perfect protection or set up alpha strike. They are all also 1 ofs.
Xenegos has let me hard cast Emrakul or multiple planeswalkers more than I thought possible.
Testing the new Deploy the Gatewatch. I think it works in this kind of deck considering we're running 16-20 walkers. More expensive than Collected Company but the value you can get from pulling any two planeswalkers is invaluable.
This has a silly combo with Liliana Vess and Sorin, Grim Nemesis. You -2 Lili, search an Emrakul, then +1 Sorin.
That combo is pretty silly. I'm not sure how you're surviving without token makers, though, especially Nissa. Turn 2 Nissa is a really good start for this deck.
I hadn't really thought about Deploy the Gatewatch in this deck, what does everyone else think? Is it too gimmicky? It seems like you need to be running a bunch of of the powerful 5+ CMC planeswalkers to really benefit.
I am running the MTGO list that 5-0'd and here are some of my thoughts.
Blood moon is required, the matchups it does something is to delay long enough to have your PW win the game. It is better than Doubling Season in a lot of matchups
You want your PW to either gum up the board with tokens or be a win condition itself. Gideon Jurra is of course the only PW that really does this without tokens as he can prevent creature decks from hitting Nahiri or forcing a tap down to clear the way for you.
only thing I wish this deck had more of is card draw or filtering. I might play around with cutting the arbor elves for 2 Tamiyo, Field Researchers and possibly 2 Oath of Jace
You want to limit your PW names by 2-3 with the exception of Nahiri who is 3-4. For example, Jace, Unraveler of Secrets might be good but no where near as good as AoT and you want 1-2 of him.
Any PW that costs more than 4 mana better have a good reason. Elspeth can do 3-12 tokens a turn and then anthem or board whipe leaving your tokens. Chandra can do 2-8 3/1 tramplers, board clear or wheel your hand. Jurra can be perfect protection or set up alpha strike. They are all also 1 ofs.
Xenegos has let me hard cast Emrakul or multiple planeswalkers more than I thought possible.
I'm a little disappointed to learn that Blood Moon is so valuable, I was hoping to avoid having to acquire those.
How comparable is Xenagos to Gideon AOZ? Are you limiting Xenagos to 2 just for planeswalker uniqueness? I guess his ultimate is pretty terrible here...
Have you tried the Utopia Sprawl thing? That's what I'm currently testing. Seems like it could be pretty fragile, though. Also, Blood Moon knocks off any Sprawls attached to duals.
That combo is pretty silly. I'm not sure how you're surviving without token makers, though, especially Nissa. Turn 2 Nissa is a really good start for this deck.
I hadn't really thought about Deploy the Gatewatch in this deck, what does everyone else think? Is it too gimmicky? It seems like you need to be running a bunch of of the powerful 5+ CMC planeswalkers to really benefit.
This tweet suggests that in an 18 planeswalker deck you get a 69% chance of getting 2. I think those are good chances especially if Tamiyo lets you cast it for free. I don't think this necessarily means you have to play the more expensive ones, though.
About tokens, I find Garruk beast tokens to do alright with Ajani but you might be right.
Blood Moon is powerful but yeah that means passing over sprawls to more mana dorks that could get bolted. I'm on the fence.
I'm a little disappointed to learn that Blood Moon is so valuable, I was hoping to avoid having to acquire those.
How comparable is Xenagos to Gideon AOZ? Are you limiting Xenagos to 2 just for planeswalker uniqueness? I guess his ultimate is pretty terrible here...
Have you tried the Utopia Sprawl thing? That's what I'm currently testing. Seems like it could be pretty fragile, though. Also, Blood Moon knocks off any Sprawls attached to duals.
4 things going for Xenagos: can cast him without mana dorks or oath easier, tokens have haste, can generate a TON of mana to HARD cast emrakul around turn 5 or 6 easily, pw uniqueness so you can have 2-4 PW pumping out tokens easier. You are right that I never ultimate him, but I don't use him for that. He is what I use to get to casting PW, emmy or doubling seasons + pw on same turn.
Regarding blood moon. Against 3 color decks/tron you just need to slow the game down, this is what blood moon does. If it isn't your style then I suggest looking at the Tamiyo/Eternal Witness infinite turns type of superfriends deck. They tend to slow the game down with fogs or counter spells. I don't see this deck beating Tron, Jund or Jeskai without it. We already have weak matchups with infect and burn.
For anyone interested, I found this video series, which shows 5 rounds of a magic online tournament using this deck.
One thing the player (Saffron Olive) talks about is how some basic spot removal might be a good idea. Any suggestions on what we might want? Path to Exile? Maybe even Declaration in Stone if token swarms are problematic?
Oath of Jace is interesting, though at 3 mana it's kind of expensive. Is it reasonable to count on scrying at least 2 every turn? If so, it might be worth it.
Also, there are a few other planeswalkers I've thought might deserve a spot here. What does everyone think about:
Good question. The thing is, Permeating Mass can spread onto our creatures (if we block a clone) as well. Whether this helps... I'm not sure.
The problem is, the opponent can just choose not to attack/ block with their Mass if they feel it would be disadvantageous to give us another copy. Best case scenario, this is a Wasteland Viper with an extra toughness. And I'm not an expert on Modern, but my understanding was that, with Lightning Bolt around, 2 and 3 are basically the same number.
And yeah, Garruk COB is pretty bad here. He searches for Emrakul and puts it into play without haste, and meanwhile his other to abilities are useless. If we want extra ways to search for Emrakul (and I don't know that we do), run an extra copy of Jace AOT.
Thanks for the other playlist, though. This deck seems like it has some potential (though maybe there a bunch of other videos where this deck loses horribly that never made it to YouTube).
How does this deck deal with Pyroclasm/Anger of the Gods? At least one of the streamers was constantly worried about Pyroclasm, and for good reason.
Also, would adding any of the green Checklands (Sunpetal Grove, Rootbound Crag) to the manabase be a good idea? Obviously we don't want too many, but with so many forests it seems like they'd work pretty well.
I've been using him alot in my Green Nykthos deck, so moving to a superfriends deck and keeping the Arbor+Sprawl+Fertile+Garruk made him an obvious choice. By cutting some mana dorks and adding the Fertile Grounds it also fixed perfectly the mana base.
Ugin's ability to reset horrendous board states is unrivaled imho. And with Doubling it's just GG every time.
Will post my list soon, MTGForge has just got the EMN cards so I can finally test Deploy the Gatewatch Dropping T3 Karn AND Ugin may be my new goal in life..
I've been using him alot in my Green Nykthos deck, so moving to a superfriends deck and keeping the Arbor+Sprawl+Fertile+Garruk made him an obvious choice. By cutting some mana dorks and adding the Fertile Grounds it also fixed perfectly the mana base.
Ugin's ability to reset horrendous board states is unrivaled imho. And with Doubling it's just GG every time.
Will post my list soon, MTGForge has just got the EMN cards so I can finally test Deploy the Gatewatch Dropping T3 Karn AND Ugin may be my new goal in life..
That sounds pretty interesting. You might want to post your deck in a new thread, though, this one's title doesn't even reflect what's being discussed currently (that is, a superfriends deck). You might get more attention if there's a new thread dedicated to that, especially with the new Deploy the Gatewatch.
Glad to see other people working on double moonwalkers! I am still working on getting my Nahiris and Noble Hierarchs to convert my mono green devotion deck.
I really think Deploy the Gatewatch is a trap card. Too expensive for an unreliable outcome. I would like to try Vraska as possible interaction though, maybe over the Chandra.
I really like Vraska the Unseen. Dropping at a 6 with +1 to deter attackers, her minus ability is great removal and with Doubling Season an awesome 6 tokens with an alternate win condition. I don't care how much life you have you better be able to block 6 assassins! I use her and have won games to her alone.
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The list I am changing to after EMN rotates in.
2 Arbor Elf
4 Birds of Paradise
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Noble Hierarch
Enchants
2 Blood Moon
2 Doubling Season
4 Oath of Nissa
PW
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Gideon Jura
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Jace, Architect of Thought
3 Nahiri, the Harbinger
3 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
1 Ral Zarek
2 Tamiyo, Field Researcher
2 Xenagos, the Reveler
1 Breeding Pool
4 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Stomping Ground
3 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Temple Garden
1 Westvale Abbey
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Blood Moon
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 X
3 Stony Silence
3 Worship
3 x in the SB is for what my meta needs. Typically there are no GY decks in my meta except when I run Living End.
It's not terrible I guess, but is it really significantly better than Wasteland Viper, Perimeter Captain, or even Steel Wall?
That combo is pretty silly. I'm not sure how you're surviving without token makers, though, especially Nissa. Turn 2 Nissa is a really good start for this deck.
I hadn't really thought about Deploy the Gatewatch in this deck, what does everyone else think? Is it too gimmicky? It seems like you need to be running a bunch of of the powerful 5+ CMC planeswalkers to really benefit.
I'm a little disappointed to learn that Blood Moon is so valuable, I was hoping to avoid having to acquire those.
How comparable is Xenagos to Gideon AOZ? Are you limiting Xenagos to 2 just for planeswalker uniqueness? I guess his ultimate is pretty terrible here...
Have you tried the Utopia Sprawl thing? That's what I'm currently testing. Seems like it could be pretty fragile, though. Also, Blood Moon knocks off any Sprawls attached to duals.
This tweet suggests that in an 18 planeswalker deck you get a 69% chance of getting 2. I think those are good chances especially if Tamiyo lets you cast it for free. I don't think this necessarily means you have to play the more expensive ones, though.
About tokens, I find Garruk beast tokens to do alright with Ajani but you might be right.
Blood Moon is powerful but yeah that means passing over sprawls to more mana dorks that could get bolted. I'm on the fence.
4 things going for Xenagos: can cast him without mana dorks or oath easier, tokens have haste, can generate a TON of mana to HARD cast emrakul around turn 5 or 6 easily, pw uniqueness so you can have 2-4 PW pumping out tokens easier. You are right that I never ultimate him, but I don't use him for that. He is what I use to get to casting PW, emmy or doubling seasons + pw on same turn.
Regarding blood moon. Against 3 color decks/tron you just need to slow the game down, this is what blood moon does. If it isn't your style then I suggest looking at the Tamiyo/Eternal Witness infinite turns type of superfriends deck. They tend to slow the game down with fogs or counter spells. I don't see this deck beating Tron, Jund or Jeskai without it. We already have weak matchups with infect and burn.
One thing the player (Saffron Olive) talks about is how some basic spot removal might be a good idea. Any suggestions on what we might want? Path to Exile? Maybe even Declaration in Stone if token swarms are problematic?
Oath of Jace is interesting, though at 3 mana it's kind of expensive. Is it reasonable to count on scrying at least 2 every turn? If so, it might be worth it.
Also, there are a few other planeswalkers I've thought might deserve a spot here. What does everyone think about:
if we're throwing out names Garruk, Caller of Beasts also searches for emrakul
The problem is, the opponent can just choose not to attack/ block with their Mass if they feel it would be disadvantageous to give us another copy. Best case scenario, this is a Wasteland Viper with an extra toughness. And I'm not an expert on Modern, but my understanding was that, with Lightning Bolt around, 2 and 3 are basically the same number.
And yeah, Garruk COB is pretty bad here. He searches for Emrakul and puts it into play without haste, and meanwhile his other to abilities are useless. If we want extra ways to search for Emrakul (and I don't know that we do), run an extra copy of Jace AOT.
Thanks for the other playlist, though. This deck seems like it has some potential (though maybe there a bunch of other videos where this deck loses horribly that never made it to YouTube).
How does this deck deal with Pyroclasm/Anger of the Gods? At least one of the streamers was constantly worried about Pyroclasm, and for good reason.
Also, would adding any of the green Checklands (Sunpetal Grove, Rootbound Crag) to the manabase be a good idea? Obviously we don't want too many, but with so many forests it seems like they'd work pretty well.
I've been using him alot in my Green Nykthos deck, so moving to a superfriends deck and keeping the Arbor+Sprawl+Fertile+Garruk made him an obvious choice. By cutting some mana dorks and adding the Fertile Grounds it also fixed perfectly the mana base.
Ugin's ability to reset horrendous board states is unrivaled imho. And with Doubling it's just GG every time.
Will post my list soon, MTGForge has just got the EMN cards so I can finally test Deploy the Gatewatch Dropping T3 Karn AND Ugin may be my new goal in life..
That sounds pretty interesting. You might want to post your deck in a new thread, though, this one's title doesn't even reflect what's being discussed currently (that is, a superfriends deck). You might get more attention if there's a new thread dedicated to that, especially with the new Deploy the Gatewatch.
I really think Deploy the Gatewatch is a trap card. Too expensive for an unreliable outcome. I would like to try Vraska as possible interaction though, maybe over the Chandra.