Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. - René Descartes
Excellent point... I did hear Levy say that the only cards he has on MTGO are the cards for Loam Pox, so maybe he doesn't have them? Price could be a thing, but you're right about it not making sense.
Any clues as to why the 4x Golgari Brownscale? Seems like overkill, but there's gotta be a reason for it.
Lol that's true too.
The 4 Golgari Brownscale is probably because the MTGO metagame is oversaturated with aggro deck. When playing burn for example, 2 life per turn can run them out of resources. I'm more curious about the lack of Bloodghast. For me, Bloodghast was typically my main win-con. The inability to block and the fact that it's more aggro focused whereas this deck tends to go long hurts, but it seems sketchy to me.
I'm also a bit concerned about Darkblast. For me, the card has really come up short when so many creatures you want to kill have 2 toughness. Losing a Terminate could be scary. I also don't care for Murderous Cut, at times it can be very anti-synergy. I'm going to do some research on Victim of Night to see if there is anything relevant that it can't hit. The first that comes to mind is Olivia Voldaren which could be relevant with a trend towards Jund that I feel is coming.
I'm also questioning the lack of Bloodghasts. Sure it can't block, but the continual free pressure they provide has always seemed like one of the deck's selling points. Also, is Worm Harvest worth running now? I thought it was a little slow but I'm seeing it in more lists now.
I'm also questioning the lack of Bloodghasts. Sure it can't block, but the continual free pressure they provide has always seemed like one of the deck's selling points. Also, is Worm Harvest worth running now? I thought it was a little slow but I'm seeing it in more lists now.
I think the deck can be built 2 ways. Long and grindy or aggro. I'm trying to figure out what this deck wants to be. Clearly Levy feels like sending this deck more towards the grind (no Bloodghast/extra Ghost Quarter/Extra Raven's Crime) Worm Harvest is only good if you plan on going long. 5 mana is a ridiculous amount to pay for a card in Modern. However, if you're going long game, Worm Harvest provides you with a great recurring pressure.
I'm also questioning the lack of Bloodghasts. Sure it can't block, but the continual free pressure they provide has always seemed like one of the deck's selling points. Also, is Worm Harvest worth running now? I thought it was a little slow but I'm seeing it in more lists now.
The lack of bloodghasts confuses me as well. They are so good against tron and amulet bloom, where spending a turn to cast lingering souls feels really bad. Also in some games against Jund or other fair decks, looting into smallpox into land to recur a bloodghast puts pressure on the opponent. With the amount of ghost quarters, tec edges, and smallpoxes I cast, I don't always get to 5 lands in play. I'm sure worm harvest is great for grinding out games, but I haven't had trouble grinding with bloodghasts.
I think jund charm is the most interesting change, as bojuka bog was so terrible against any graveyard deck that I cut them from the board.
Did Levy wrote an article about his latest list? I don't see anything up. Also, I didn't know he was Grob on MTGO!
I like a lot his list : the only thing that bothers me is the Worm Harvest and maybe 2 Murderous Cut (a split with Terminate could be more appropriate).
I saw his MTGO username while watching his stream.
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Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. - René Descartes
Seems cool that this list is really built around a core, and there are different directions to go with it. I've been liking the Bloodghast version, but I've had Worm Harvest in my sideboard off and on. I'm also a much bigger fan of Terminate and Victim of Night rather than Murderous Cut.
And the rest is basically negotiable. Pretty sweet.
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I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
I tweeted at Levy asking him about the lack of Bloodghast. His response was "just trying things out :)" I'm really curious as to what he's thinking about the list.
Anybody interested in me making a primer for this deck? It wouldn't be the best, but it would probably help gain some publicity for this deck.
I agree with this idea, someone should.
I started writing a little something up. I'll share it when I need help with editing.
I was also informed of a way to use Darkblast that I had never thought of. If you have Darkblast in hand, you can cast it in your upkeep and Dredge it in your draw step to take care of a 2 toughness creature. Maybe I'm just stupid for not noticing this simple interaction, but it can really come in handy.
So tested the Stock Lost of Levy and just went strictly 1-3
It's not that the Deck isn't good, it just need some Meta-Tweaking.
I experienced very quickly that Crime and Darkblast are Bonkers, whereas Bloodghast
is mediocre at best.
So tested the Stock Lost of Levy and just went strictly 1-3
It's not that the Deck isn't good, it just need some Meta-Tweaking.
I experienced very quickly that Crime and Darkblast are Bonkers, whereas Bloodghast
is mediocre at best.
[quote from="Polymorph »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/582542-raphael-levys-loam-pox?comment=152"]
Do you think Bloodghast is bad enough to cut?
I'm unsure, i shaved him down to 2 for further testings.
R1: Jund
Match 1 i grinded him out until i saw Olivia Voldaren on Stage.
She pinged my Souls Token to Death and i saw 0 removal.
Match 2 he boarded Bitterblossom and Kitchen Finks.
I was stuck on nothing except a Vengeful Pharao in Hand and hard casted
him twice. Infestation T2 got blown out by a Verdict.
He had Bow of Nylea and comes in for a lot of damage with Goofy.
0-2
R2: Burn
1st Match he burned me down while i wasn't able to discard Golgari Brownscale
which had been in my opener.
2nd Match was a Grindfest (do you call it this way?) where i managed to keep the Infestation
and pump out Tokens with no Life from the Loam. Goblin Guide gave
me a lot of lands, but whenever i blocked Eidolon of the Great Revel he puts
out a Boros Charm for indestructible.
Finally i got rid of them but a few topdecked Burn-Spells killed me soon.
R3: UR Twin
I was stucked on Swamp and 2 Quarters for some turns and counters my T4 Infestation.
He managed to combo off like T10 or so.
Match 2 i saw a T1 Relic of Progenitus which got blasted by my Ancient Grudge.
I fetched for Basics as i was assuming Blood Moon out of the side.
He resolves Tiago with Bolt, flashback Bolt and i held Lingering Souls and Ray of Revelation
in Hand with 0 white Mana and no discard Outlet. Tiago borught me down to 0.
The idea is easy to understand.
dredge him into the Yard, sac Squee, Goblin Nabob or Bloodghast
and return him to hand. Now cast him or discard him with something else to Zombie Infestation.
If he's casted he turns Ghast and Squee into Shock, which is decent.
Infestation discarding 2 Lands, sac Zombie for R1 to Tymaret = Shock.
I like the idea alot as the Murder King gets rid of X/2's, whereas Darkblast
and Flame Jab fizzle and is also able to rip X/3's along with Jab or Blast.
WHOOOPPS, targets only Players...
Haven't seen that.
Unless I'm missing something, you can't return him to your hand from your graveyard by sacrificing another creature. It has to be on the battlefield to use his activated ability.
Also, I think is slow and mana intensive enough. I mean, discarding two cards to Zombie Infestation then use two mana to deal 2 damage to a player is pretty much the same as casting Flame Jab twice, with the downside that you can't kill creatures, and you have to have two permanents in play (Zombie Infestation and Tymaret, the Murder King).
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Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. - René Descartes
Unless I'm missing something, you can't return him to your hand from your graveyard by sacrificing another creature. It has to be on the battlefield to use his activated ability.
Also, I think is slow and mana intensive enough. I mean, discarding two cards to Zombie Infestation then use two mana to deal 2 damage to a player is pretty much the same as casting Flame Jab twice, with the downside that you can't kill creatures, and you have to have two permanents in play (Zombie Infestation and Tymaret, the Murder King).
No, it's ability works in graveyard. However, I have never hardcast a Squee and I think that overall the mana cost isn't worth it to play Tymaret, but I may be wrong.
Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. - René Descartes
Are we really discussing cutting Bloodghast and using Tymaret? Bloodghast is a free recurring creature Ty is heavy mana investment. He doesn't even come back for free. I don't think he's worth any considering but I have been wrong before.
I'm wondering if there's some combination of Dredge vine that could be worked into a loam pox deck.
I haven't tested the deck enough yet to be certain about the Sideboard but I think preparing for Bloom and Affinity is probably safe. I might switch the AG to 4x Ooze if I expect a lot Coco.
I don't see why Marsh Flats is better here - the only white is Godless Shrine, which Polluted Delta fetches just the same.
Any clues as to why the 4x Golgari Brownscale? Seems like overkill, but there's gotta be a reason for it.
Lol that's true too.
The 4 Golgari Brownscale is probably because the MTGO metagame is oversaturated with aggro deck. When playing burn for example, 2 life per turn can run them out of resources. I'm more curious about the lack of Bloodghast. For me, Bloodghast was typically my main win-con. The inability to block and the fact that it's more aggro focused whereas this deck tends to go long hurts, but it seems sketchy to me.
Edit: Viscera Seer, Huntmaster of the Fells, and Gurmag Angler are also relevant. (Gurmag Angler hardly sees play though)
I'd be more inclined to run a list like this:
2 Golgari Brownscale
2 Vengeful Pharaoh
Removal (8):
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Darkblast
2 Victim of Night
1 Terminate
1 Go for the Throat
Sorceries (20):
4 Smallpox
4 Faithless Looting
4 Life from the Loam
4 Lingering Souls
2 Raven's Crime
1 Flame Jab
1 Worm Harvest
4 Zombie Infestation
Land (24):
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
2 Blood Crypt
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Godless Shrine
1 Forest
2 Swamp
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Ancient Grudge
2 Golgari Brownscale
3 Ray of Revelation
3 Jund Charm
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Ghost Quarter
I think the deck can be built 2 ways. Long and grindy or aggro. I'm trying to figure out what this deck wants to be. Clearly Levy feels like sending this deck more towards the grind (no Bloodghast/extra Ghost Quarter/Extra Raven's Crime) Worm Harvest is only good if you plan on going long. 5 mana is a ridiculous amount to pay for a card in Modern. However, if you're going long game, Worm Harvest provides you with a great recurring pressure.
The lack of bloodghasts confuses me as well. They are so good against tron and amulet bloom, where spending a turn to cast lingering souls feels really bad. Also in some games against Jund or other fair decks, looting into smallpox into land to recur a bloodghast puts pressure on the opponent. With the amount of ghost quarters, tec edges, and smallpoxes I cast, I don't always get to 5 lands in play. I'm sure worm harvest is great for grinding out games, but I haven't had trouble grinding with bloodghasts.
I think jund charm is the most interesting change, as bojuka bog was so terrible against any graveyard deck that I cut them from the board.
I like a lot his list : the only thing that bothers me is the Worm Harvest and maybe 2 Murderous Cut (a split with Terminate could be more appropriate).
Cheers!
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Seems to me the core is:
4x Life from the Loam
4x Faithless Looting
4x Lingering Souls
4x Zombie Infestation
4x Smallpox
5-8x spot removal
22-25x lands, including 2-5x Ghost Quarter / Tectonic Edge
And the rest is basically negotiable. Pretty sweet.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
I agree with this idea, someone should.
I started writing a little something up. I'll share it when I need help with editing.
I was also informed of a way to use Darkblast that I had never thought of. If you have Darkblast in hand, you can cast it in your upkeep and Dredge it in your draw step to take care of a 2 toughness creature. Maybe I'm just stupid for not noticing this simple interaction, but it can really come in handy.
It's not that the Deck isn't good, it just need some Meta-Tweaking.
I experienced very quickly that Crime and Darkblast are Bonkers, whereas Bloodghast
is mediocre at best.
Does anyone tests Tormenting Voice ATM?
I did have issues discarding Lingering Souls and Ray of Revelation
when Infestation didn't resolve.
Regarding Mana Base:
I had the feeling that 1 Mountain, 2 Ghost Quarter and 1 Tectonic Edge
are the right way to go.
Golgari Brownscale and Vengeful Pharao went up to 2 copies each because they proved
to stall Tasigur, the Golden Fang and Tarmogoyf out.
Green @ it's best
Do you think Bloodghast is bad enough to cut?
I'm unsure, i shaved him down to 2 for further testings.
I want to leave another Creature here for duscussion purposes:
Tymaret, the Murder King which indeed have interaction with Bloodghast
Here's a short report from my Matches yesterday:
R1: Jund
Match 1 i grinded him out until i saw Olivia Voldaren on Stage.
She pinged my Souls Token to Death and i saw 0 removal.
Match 2 he boarded Bitterblossom and Kitchen Finks.
I was stuck on nothing except a Vengeful Pharao in Hand and hard casted
him twice. Infestation T2 got blown out by a Verdict.
He had Bow of Nylea and comes in for a lot of damage with Goofy.
0-2
R2: Burn
1st Match he burned me down while i wasn't able to discard Golgari Brownscale
which had been in my opener.
2nd Match was a Grindfest (do you call it this way?) where i managed to keep the Infestation
and pump out Tokens with no Life from the Loam. Goblin Guide gave
me a lot of lands, but whenever i blocked Eidolon of the Great Revel he puts
out a Boros Charm for indestructible.
Finally i got rid of them but a few topdecked Burn-Spells killed me soon.
R3: UR Twin
I was stucked on Swamp and 2 Quarters for some turns and counters my T4 Infestation.
He managed to combo off like T10 or so.
Match 2 i saw a T1 Relic of Progenitus which got blasted by my Ancient Grudge.
I fetched for Basics as i was assuming Blood Moon out of the side.
He resolves Tiago with Bolt, flashback Bolt and i held Lingering Souls and Ray of Revelation
in Hand with 0 white Mana and no discard Outlet. Tiago borught me down to 0.
R4: Bye
Green @ it's best
The idea is easy to understand.
dredge him into the Yard, sac Squee, Goblin Nabob or Bloodghast
and return him to hand. Now cast him or discard him with something else to
Zombie Infestation.
If he's casted he turns Ghast and Squee into Shock, which is decent.
Infestation discarding 2 Lands, sac Zombie for R1 to Tymaret = Shock.
I like the idea alot as the Murder King gets rid of X/2's, whereas Darkblast
and Flame Jab fizzle and is also able to rip X/3's along with Jab or Blast.
WHOOOPPS, targets only Players...
Haven't seen that.
Green @ it's best
Also, I think is slow and mana intensive enough. I mean, discarding two cards to Zombie Infestation then use two mana to deal 2 damage to a player is pretty much the same as casting Flame Jab twice, with the downside that you can't kill creatures, and you have to have two permanents in play (Zombie Infestation and Tymaret, the Murder King).
No, it's ability works in graveyard. However, I have never hardcast a Squee and I think that overall the mana cost isn't worth it to play Tymaret, but I may be wrong.
I'm wondering if there's some combination of Dredge vine that could be worked into a loam pox deck.
4 Gravecrawler
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Bloodghast
4 Vengevine
3 Squee, Goblin Nabob
2 Stinkweed Imp
1 Golgari brownscale
1 Vengeful Pharoah
1 Shambling shell
Spells (15):
4 Faithless Looting
4 Zombie infestation
4 Smallpox
3 Life from the Loam
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
3 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Ancient Grudge
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Gnaw to the Bone
2 Darkblast
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Golgari Charm
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Life from the loam
I haven't tested the deck enough yet to be certain about the Sideboard but I think preparing for Bloom and Affinity is probably safe. I might switch the AG to 4x Ooze if I expect a lot Coco.
Draft My Cube!
Understand that one.
2 other Cards i'll test in further Builds:
Raging Ravine and Tormenting Voice
Any thoughts on that?
Green @ it's best