Verdants are obviously the 100% best since it saves you if you are expecting an early blood moon and fetches everything, but if you do not have access to them I would do 4 Mires, 4 Wooded, and a Delta. The checklands are not that great, finding your third color is usually way more important especially since we run 4 colorless lands. I would play fast lands before checklands, doing things on your early turns is crucial, we can take the control role for sure but are not a slow deck that can afford to waste an early turn with a CITPT land.
Also, the Liliana's are not a huge necessity, but my meta is full of bogles and control so she does lots of work.
Took this for a spin today against my wife's UWR Delver/Geist deck. Went 1-2. There is a ton going on in this deck. I'm running a slightly different list in that I took out the two Tectonic Edge and put in two Lotleth Troll. Very grindy deck, and very different than the deck I'm most familiar with, 8Rack.
That feel when your Smallpox to kill their Geist gets countered.
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EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
I do not think this deck supports enough creatures for a Lotleth troll honestly.
You're likely right. I've just started with the deck and have the luxury of testing stuff out with my wife before I compete against strangers. I like Lotleth Troll because of the resilience and because of Squee, but milling him does absolutely nothing. I'll report back after trying it out for a while.
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Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
I just feel that cards that you cannot re-occur from the GY that are not insanely high impact (ZI, Liliana, Damnation) etc. have greatly diminished value in the deck is all.
Played wifey's U Tron tonight. Sided out all kinds of removal, plus the Lotleth Trolls, to put in 4x Ancient Grudge and 2x Extirpate. What an awful matchup. I could never get ahead. The Grudges help with all her creatures, and Ghost Quarter did yeoman's work, but I never hit either a Faithless Looting or a Zombie Infestation. I probably should've mulliganed, looking back.
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Played 2-0 against my wife's UWR Geist/Delver last night. One game went pretty much according to plan, but the second game I drew no Life from the Loam, Squee, or Smallpox, and this deck still got there with one Bloodghast, two Lingering Souls that made six tokens and one Zombie Infestation that made me just a few tokens for blocking her Geist. Felt like I got there from pretty far behind. Love this deck.
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Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Testing against Tokens and Mono-W Hatebears today. Tokens is very difficult when you don't dredge the right stuff and a breeze when you do. I haven't had any trouble against Mono-W. Leonin Arbiter is the only struggle card. Considering playing a Firespout or Pulse out of the board.
Played two games against wife's UTron last night. Second game I was doing just fine, using Ancient Grudge on the Wurmcoil Engine, Ghost Quarter on her lands, Extirpate on and swinging with a swarm of Lingering Souls. I think I used Extirpate on the Wurmcoil and when she laid her Platinum Angel to save herself at just a few life, I waited and baited until she tapped out of blue mana, and landed an Ancient Grudge for the win. Felt good.
Second game, she pulled out her super-secret Loam Pox killer tech on me: Tormod's Crypt. Ugh. Graveyard hate feels bad.
Will be playing more against UWR Geist/Delver tonight, which is a much better matchup.
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I've been messing around with this deck on Cockatrice.
I agree that it's a very difficult deck to play, but it's very rare that I lose and I feel like it was that the deck couldn't manage it rather than misplays on my part.
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
I am about to sleeve this up how is it's jund matchup?
As I understand it, Jund's whole gameplan is to get both players to topdeck mode, and then because of Dark Confidant draws and the high average value of their cards, they're supposed to grind you out.
This deck seems more resilient than most to that strategy. You still get value out of a discarded Lingering Souls, or Bloodghast, or Squee, or Life from the Loam, or Faithless Looting, or lands. It seems like the problem might be dealing with the Tarmogoyf and Scavenging Ooze beatdown, before you can get stable. Smallpox and other removal seems like it does heavy lifting in this matchup. Scooze is probably this deck's worst nightmare as a creature, but most decks don't run a full set of them anyway. Plus, they die to removal like anything else.
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I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
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Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Okay yeah I've played against it a few times with elves and that's exactly how he won 1 for 1d then drew two cards per turn. Except elves is a lot less resilient to their threats
So, how many Life from the Loam should be ran? I'm playing 3, edging towards 4. I know it's value decreases with each copy, but it's so important to the strategy, that I feel like it should be a 4 of.
Also, what do you all think of Krosan Grip in the side to combat yard hate? I've considered Ancient Grudge but I've cut red for a more stable mana base, and from what I've noticed most yard hate that's used in modern is going to prevent me from utilizing the flash back on it anyway. So I think the uncounterablility of Grip is better, plus it hits enhancements.
Cut red? Why? Faithless Looting is one of the best cards in the deck. I almost never have mana problems with this deck, strangely. You can operate on three lands: Blood Crypt, Overgrown Tomb, and Godless Shrine. I run either 3 or 4 Blackcleave Cliffs to help out with T1 Looting, T2 whatever else.
I also run 4 Life from the Loam. Multiples aren't useful, but you really, really want to hit one. The deck's less good without the Loam engine going, though I've also won games where I never saw one. Still, I'd prefer to have it, and find that more useful than a second Golgari Brownscale, or a fifth or sixth removal card.
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Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
I don't feel that the deck really needs red. Faithless looting is a good card, but what does it really do other than draw you a couple cards? I'd rather use Horizon Canopy for that. Reccurable card advantage. Anything we would use for dredge we can easily cast, and get value out of first. Or just discard to zombie infestation, or smallpox. We could also just target ourselves with raven's crime if we absolutely have to.
Summer Bloom, along with canopy or Ghost Quarter, Tectonic Edge doesn't really matter which utility land you have in hand, you're getting an edge. And it lets you play the same number of lands as what loam gives you. I think it's at least worth a shot.
Seems like you can work around certain kinds of graveyard hate. I play against my wife's U Tron deck all the time, and she sides in Tormod's Crypt, which maybe sets me back a turn or two, but doesn't ruin the game. Leyline of the Void seems harder to deal with.
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Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Just FYI, Abrupt Decay can destroy a Chalice of the Void on 2. Chalice will not prevent you from casting Abrupt Decay and Abrupt Decay's uncounterable clause will prevent the Chalice from countering it.
Well, as the person who's put the most work into the deck, Levy is probably a little biased in the deck's favour. I'm not saying that he is necessarily incorrect, just that he might be overstating his case a little.
In terms of why this deck isn't being played that much, I think it comes down to two reasons- first, as a deck built around graveyard synergies, it can be somewhat weak to hate, especially when Scavenging Ooze is commonly played. Second, I think, is that this deck is honestly just difficult to play. The decision trees are very complex; where other decks draw for the turn, Loam Pox has to decide whether it is going to dredge or draw, if it dredges, what it dredges if it does (Brownscale for the life and a chump blocker? Life From The Loam to further set up your board and to dig for Retrace, etc), and this is all just in the draw step. While I'm not saying that decks like Splinter Twin and Abzan are easy, it is easier to determine a correct course of action at any given time than it is for Loam Pox.
It's sort of like Amulet Bloom- although that deck is doing very well in terms of win percentage, its overall meta share is low because the deck can be very difficult to play. For a lot of competitively minded players, it makes more sense to play a deck like Splinter Twin which is well established and has decision trees that don't diverge as much as they do in Loam Pox.
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
just gettin tapped into this thread.
Comin from Aggro Loam with Naya Colors and not being satisfied with RGW's performance,
i get serious about building this Deck.
A great part of the mana base is missing, but that won't be a problem as i'm getting Catacombs, Mires and Shocks in the near future.
It's just a bit difficult to figure out how the Deck works by not playing it O.o
So my question is:
Is this Deck about digging for the right answers with FAithless Looting and Life from the Loam?
Sounds like a Toolbox to me.
Dredging everything except Infestation into the Yard, finding the right answer to our problem, finally grind the opponent out.
More than anything, this deck seems like it's trying to advantage value. Sometimes that means denying resources, be it with Raven's Crime for cards or Ghost Quarter recursion for lands. Sometimes it means casting Souls, then flashing it back next turn, preferably with a land drop bringing back a Bloodghast or two. Sometimes it's about pitching Squee and a land to make a zombie token. Sometimes it's about seeing an opportunity to go on the beatdown with Golgari Brownscale or even Squee. Sometimes it's about clearing the way of x/1s with Flame Jab recursion.
That's why I prefer the deck so much over Aggro Loam. I played RG with no Goyfs for a little while, and then thought about going Jund colors for Smallpox, but hitting BB and RRR is really difficult. This deck is much less linear than stall with creature presence while you assemble Seismic Assault and Life from the Loam. This deck seems to have answers for all kinds of stuff.
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Also, the Liliana's are not a huge necessity, but my meta is full of bogles and control so she does lots of work.
That feel when your Smallpox to kill their Geist gets countered.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
You're likely right. I've just started with the deck and have the luxury of testing stuff out with my wife before I compete against strangers. I like Lotleth Troll because of the resilience and because of Squee, but milling him does absolutely nothing. I'll report back after trying it out for a while.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Second game, she pulled out her super-secret Loam Pox killer tech on me: Tormod's Crypt. Ugh. Graveyard hate feels bad.
Will be playing more against UWR Geist/Delver tonight, which is a much better matchup.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
I agree that it's a very difficult deck to play, but it's very rare that I lose and I feel like it was that the deck couldn't manage it rather than misplays on my part.
As I understand it, Jund's whole gameplan is to get both players to topdeck mode, and then because of Dark Confidant draws and the high average value of their cards, they're supposed to grind you out.
This deck seems more resilient than most to that strategy. You still get value out of a discarded Lingering Souls, or Bloodghast, or Squee, or Life from the Loam, or Faithless Looting, or lands. It seems like the problem might be dealing with the Tarmogoyf and Scavenging Ooze beatdown, before you can get stable. Smallpox and other removal seems like it does heavy lifting in this matchup. Scooze is probably this deck's worst nightmare as a creature, but most decks don't run a full set of them anyway. Plus, they die to removal like anything else.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Also, what do you all think of Krosan Grip in the side to combat yard hate? I've considered Ancient Grudge but I've cut red for a more stable mana base, and from what I've noticed most yard hate that's used in modern is going to prevent me from utilizing the flash back on it anyway. So I think the uncounterablility of Grip is better, plus it hits enhancements.
I also run 4 Life from the Loam. Multiples aren't useful, but you really, really want to hit one. The deck's less good without the Loam engine going, though I've also won games where I never saw one. Still, I'd prefer to have it, and find that more useful than a second Golgari Brownscale, or a fifth or sixth removal card.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
I kinda thought I should run 4. Thank you.
If we had a way to play Horizon Canopy more than once a turn, I'd be willing to cut the red. But we can't, so...
Summer Bloom...isn't that.
Seems like you can work around certain kinds of graveyard hate. I play against my wife's U Tron deck all the time, and she sides in Tormod's Crypt, which maybe sets me back a turn or two, but doesn't ruin the game. Leyline of the Void seems harder to deal with.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
In terms of why this deck isn't being played that much, I think it comes down to two reasons- first, as a deck built around graveyard synergies, it can be somewhat weak to hate, especially when Scavenging Ooze is commonly played. Second, I think, is that this deck is honestly just difficult to play. The decision trees are very complex; where other decks draw for the turn, Loam Pox has to decide whether it is going to dredge or draw, if it dredges, what it dredges if it does (Brownscale for the life and a chump blocker? Life From The Loam to further set up your board and to dig for Retrace, etc), and this is all just in the draw step. While I'm not saying that decks like Splinter Twin and Abzan are easy, it is easier to determine a correct course of action at any given time than it is for Loam Pox.
It's sort of like Amulet Bloom- although that deck is doing very well in terms of win percentage, its overall meta share is low because the deck can be very difficult to play. For a lot of competitively minded players, it makes more sense to play a deck like Splinter Twin which is well established and has decision trees that don't diverge as much as they do in Loam Pox.
just gettin tapped into this thread.
Comin from Aggro Loam with Naya Colors and not being satisfied with RGW's performance,
i get serious about building this Deck.
A great part of the mana base is missing, but that won't be a problem as i'm getting Catacombs, Mires and Shocks in the near future.
It's just a bit difficult to figure out how the Deck works by not playing it O.o
So my question is:
Is this Deck about digging for the right answers with FAithless Looting and Life from the Loam?
Sounds like a Toolbox to me.
Dredging everything except Infestation into the Yard, finding the right answer to our problem, finally grind the opponent out.
Am i right with this suggestion?
Green @ it's best
That's why I prefer the deck so much over Aggro Loam. I played RG with no Goyfs for a little while, and then thought about going Jund colors for Smallpox, but hitting BB and RRR is really difficult. This deck is much less linear than stall with creature presence while you assemble Seismic Assault and Life from the Loam. This deck seems to have answers for all kinds of stuff.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered