This looks like a great start, but more of a curve-out aggro than an all out-aggro, unlike most of the decks in this thread. Assuming you want to stick with the curve-out approach, I would definitely suggest replacing Elite Vanguard with Kytheon, Hero of Akros as it's an easy upgrade. You can also replace the Marsh Flats with Plains as they don't serve much of a purpose. I'd also suggest trying to work in 4 copies of Champion of the Parish, as you already have a lot of humans, perhaps removing Wilt-Leaf Liege and Sun Titan to do so. All of the best 1-drops are largely covered in previous posts, but some additional 2-4-drops that I like include Accorder Paladin, Silverblade Paladin, Frontline Medic, Crusader of Odric, Riders of Gavony, and Grand Abolisher, if you'd like to try any of those. Good luck!
4 Martyr of Sands
4 Serra's Ascendant
3 Kytheon, Hero of Ak
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Mardu Woe Hunter
3 Student of warfare
1 Dragon Hunter
4 Champion of the Parish
3 Accorder Paladin
4 Honor the Pure
2 Guardians Pledge
4 Spectral Procession
Sideboard
4 Path to Exile
2 Burrenton Forge-Tenders
2 Sundering Growth
1 Disenchant
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Knight of the White Orchid
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Mana Tithe
1 Leonin Arbiter
Works. Goes that way, really fast.
I mean, turn three attack with 3x 2/1 and Flip speed.
Turn 4 goldfish hopefully.
Turn 5 kill expected. . . . Mid game OK sometimes, ... late game does not exist.
Currently testing the Battlecry & Student. Guardians is underperforming. Spectral is huge.
Without Martyr of Sands (which on it's own doesn't do much as well) Serra Ascendant is bad and I wouldn't play them in anything outside the "Soul Sisters" deck that uses them to their full potential.
I wouldn't use a tap-land like Windbrisk Heights in a fast aggro deck as it can only slow you down, even maindeck Ghost Quarter will be a better idea in my opinion.
Another good option is to use Flagstones of Trokair to thin your deck and avoid flooding.
Hey Dennis...
Guardians pledge left, replaced by dragon hunters mostly
Accorder Paladin has not lived up to hopes.
Path to Exile is just the wrong call, not main. Losing to creatureless while looking at 2 Path just blows.
Martyr of Sands gain gain enormous amounts of life and singlehandedly defeat red decks. She has done so repeatedly for me. And sometimes been sideboarded out. And since I am actually playing Marytr, Ascendant really does just win some games. Regularly. And there is nothing wrong with gaining some life sometimes.
I would use Windbrisk heights because it does in fact speed me up. Attack with 3 Tokens, activate the windbrisk, get a Honour the pure, Die. Admittedly it was better when I would say take 12 flying on turn 4 with a Guardians off the windbrisk, but hopefully yoiu get the point. Windbrisk play fab-tasticly, but for speed reasons I did reduce them to 2. Purely because I need faster, not longer.
A second Spectral Procession is also an awesome thing to cast from the Heights. Or an Indestructible Kytheon, or size 6/6 flying lifelink Serra, or just a dork ... Hell, Once I even got a Windbrisk Heights and tried again next turn.
The get a dork option should not be dismissed, it is like drawing a card, and casting it, out of a single land. Everything in the deck, except plains, is going to be good under that Windbrisk. They play just great. Same with the castle, and canopy. But Windbrisk is slightly different, it is Pyschological. They do not know what it is. They need to know, and I get to look at it, But not you. So they focus on it instead and do make mistakes.
Actually, all of my cards are like that, they are just a little bit off centre and people do not realise just what they are facing. They keep saying 'Soul Sisters', and I keep not arguing.
The castle is great.
I used to play 4 Ghost quarter base, then some across sideboard and main, the main, then board. ... They do not work very well. I used to play the 4 flagstones as well, just took them out.Great against smallpox, but crap against bloodmoon effects.
My Thing is faster than anything listed here, I think. And it seems to go a bit harder. My Champions have more fuel, I get flying avatars and hordes pretty reliably. Tier one cards are required for my opponent to win.
Even so, those cards seem to be causing me significant hassle.
Wrath effects, gifts, occasional reanimation, big tron spells.
The reason Consul's Lieutenant don't work is because it is just like accorder, but worse.
The first time it attacks.... is the problem with Accorder paladin, it don't. Not at the right times. If I have accepted that the basic problem with the Accorder is that it does not get to usefully make that first attack, what is the point of trying to make it's second attack even better?
And sure, First strike is nice. But, Consul's lieutenant cost 2 for 2 power, but I am looking for cards with fully double that pay off. 2 power for W, with an ability please, and if it is not useful it should get boarded.
I want to attack on turn 3 with 3 creatures, Consul dont help that.
I want goblin decks to have to block my creatures, as I play more of them.
I think I just need to play a little better, and get some luck.
I have tried Thalia, and probably will put one back in the board.
I was playing 2 Ethersworn main, and junked them for 2/1 for W
Suppression Field, Stony Silence and Rest in Peace all look great and read well, but they are for control decks. They do not kill people.
This looks like a great start, but more of a curve-out aggro than an all out-aggro, unlike most of the decks in this thread.
Thank you! I really appreciate your suggestions. Yes, is a more "midrangey" deck than others in this thread but I don't want to make it slow..
Some thoughts:
1) Kytheon, Hero of Akros ASAP! (but it should be cloggy 4 copies due to the legendary rule..?)
2) What I should remove to find room for Champion of the Parish? Ethersworn Canonist is not giving me satisfaction, maybe -1 Mirran Crusader and -1 Student of Warfare. Sun Titan yes is not fitting 100% with the deck BUT Wilt-Leaf Liege is boss! It is a 4/4 walking Honor of the Pure for only four mana.
3) How about Knight Exemplar?
4) Spells structure is good in your opinion? Brave the Elements is maybe better at 3, often I find myself wanting more Path to Exile in my hand and I'm gonna increase to 3 (maybe 4..).
What are everyone's thoughts on Gather the Townsfolk in this deck? I feel like it can be useful in reducing the number of times we mulligan or run out of gas since it's essentially two creatures (with relevant creature types) in one card, and as such it also provides a little bit of card advantage. It ensures a nice buff to Champion of the Parish and can singlehandedly flip Kytheon, Hero of Akros or trigger Boros Elite. Plus, the fateful hour clause can be a game winner in rare cases. Ordinarily I wouldn't consider a token generator in this deck because of the low power-to-cost ratio, but the fact that this card generates humans makes all the difference.
Lots of you people seem to have forgoten the idea of the deck: it called "mono white 1 drop goyfs" for a reason. True, some of the creatures you mention are awesome, but don't stick the idea of dropping a lot of creatures by turn 3.
Regarding Serra ascendant, I agree with D90Dennis14, you would use it better in a Soul Sisters deck, wich is one of the best Weenies decks.
Champion of the Parish, Student of warfare, Kytheon, Hero of Akros, Figure of Destiny and Steppe Lynx are the most efficient creatures available for the deck. Goldfishing, by turn 3 an unblocked Champion can do 9 points of damage, a Lynx can do 8. I can understand that some of you guys don't use the lynx for budget, or the Figure because it isn't human, but suggesting 3-and more- drops dosen't do the cut for this kind of deck, especially in a format as fast as Modern.
I'm not saying than Hero of Bladehold and Sun Titan are bad cards. It's just that you can not use they're full potential in this kind of deck.
Lots of you people seem to have forgoten the idea of the deck: it called "mono white 1 drop goyfs" for a reason.
It is, but there simply aren't enough Goyfs to build an entire deck. Currently the deck relies on playing semi-decent cards like Boros Elite, Soldier of the Pantheon, Mardu Woe-Reaper, and Dragon Hunter just to fill out the ranks. There is no reason to discourage investigating alternatives to these sorts of cards, even if they aren't 1-drops. There may well be some 2-drops and 3-drops that work well in the deck, but we just haven't figured it out yet. This deck is far from being established, so I think it's worth encouraging experimentation.
I didn't mean to discourage the people, and I'm really sorry if it sounded like that. I can see some creatures of 2 and 3 drop in the deck, but more is really innefective, IMO. And i really wished that the Ally subtheme could work, but there're little to no other usefull White Allys besides the freeblade, the blademaster and the envoy =S
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Sorry for the bad english, not my native language!!!
I didn't mean to discourage the people, and I'm really sorry if it sounded like that. I can see some creatures of 2 and 3 drop in the deck, but more is really innefective, IMO. And i really wished that the Ally subtheme could work, but there're little to no other usefull White Allys besides the freeblade, the blademaster and the envoy =S
No worries, I didn't mean to make it sound like I was calling you out, and I apologize. You're entirely correct in saying that the deck can't support more than a few larger creatures.
Hey guys! the warcaller is back, and I am so glad to see this thread is still alive and doing well.
There's been a lot of really great discussion here, and as someone who has lived for white based aggro and rogue decks since the original mirrodin, I'm really enjoying all the interest, experimentation and exploration people are taking with this deck. Hats off to OP for bringing such a powerful and fun deck to modern.
That being said, I wanted to ask your opinions on particular cards that so far, to my knowledge anyways, I haven't seen anyone discuss.
When it comes to aggro, I've always believed that a proactive strategy composed of fast, powerful creatures backed by flexible cards that keep the tempo of the deck are the best way to build. That's why brave the elements is such an incredible card. It counters removal, enables an alpha strike, can force poor trades for the opponent in combat (It doesn't happen often, but I always love the zoo players face when I double block with 3-4 dudes and brave the elements, killing off a chunk of his team), and at one white mana it maintains the fast paced tempo of the deck.
Mutagenic Growth
This is the main card I really want to argue for. Mutagenic growth has been pretty good to me thus far. In a lot of ways, it acts as a pseudo brave the elements. It counters burn, wins combat, and gives a little extra reach when you need two more points of damage to close out the game, all at zero mana. Depending on your particular build, a lot of our creatures sport a 2/1 body, which means mutagenic can't save them from the most popular 3 damage burn spells like lightning bolt or lightning helix. But, from my own personal experience, cards like mardu woe-reaper and soldier of the pantheon are rarely burn targets. For me, it's always been a steppe lynx rolling a land fall trigger, a 2/2 or 3/3 champion of the parish, a 3/3 boros elite, or one of our mana sinks like student of warfare or figure of destiny usually after they've already become 2/2 or 3/3. For these cards you can safely tap out and still protect your dudes from almost any burn spell. In a pinch you can save one of your guys from a two damage burn spell like kolaghan's command, forked bolt, pyroclasm, electrolyze, or reality hemorrhage (for those of you running kor firewalker in your sideboard), though you are still getting 2 for 1'd or even 3 for 1'd most times, so it has to be an important creature that you are saving.
In combat, mutagenic is usually a blowout the first time you play it, because the opponent will never expect it. This is especially true if you tap out first. I generally use it to get one of our larger goyfs through an actual tarmogoyf, tasigur, the golden fang, etc., or to save one of our weenies from a blocking 1-2 power creature like huntmaster of the fells or tokens from lingering souls, though lingering souls is still really hard to play against haha. I sometimes use it defensively as well by blocking with a creature that still has summoning sickness
Additionally, mutagenic provides a little instant speed reach in a deck that runs no mountains. And sometimes, 2 damage is all you need to close out. The very first time I took this deck out for a walk at my local IQ a few months back, literally every game I lost came down to the opponent finishing at 1-5 life or gaining enough life to get back to double digits after going down to 1-5 life. You can look at the very first post I made in this thread for reference.
Finally, it's zero mana.
ZERO. MANA.
Playing cards for free is exactly what this deck wants. You can advance your board state, dump all your mana into figure of destiny or student of warfare and still play this card with no loss to tempo. Anyone who isn't playing this card, I highly recommend trying 2-3 copies in your main or at least your sideboard. I will admit, this is usually a pretty bad card against burn and affinity, but it does well in it's flexibility against everything else game 1. One of the other reasons I love flexible cards like these, especially in the main board, is that you already have a decent win percentage against most decks game 1 by being so fast. Having a less powerful card that covers all your bases ensures more game 1 victories and makes sideboarding easier as you can take out this less powerful but more flexible card for a specific/hateful one. On top of that, you can totally bluff having mutagenic in hand once the opponent sees it. Even if you side the damn thing out it really forces the opponent to rethink all their combat math which puts them under additional mental stress and often leads to more conservative play.
harm's way
Harm's way is another less powerful but more flexible card that comes at little to no tempo loss as well. It protects our larger creatures from 2 and 3 damage burn spells, it helps to win combat, and can act as removal or reach in a deck that, once again, plays no mountains. I'm really interested in trying this card out as 1-2 of in the mainboard, especially alongside mutagenic growth, but I wanted to hear if anyone else has experienced success with the card. The potential to 2 for 1 an opponent by countering a burn spell or saving a creature in combat and then shooting down a young pyromancer, delver of secrets, whatever's blocking you, etc. or just getting that extra two damage in seems really attractive. However, I'm not a fan of leaving up one mana all the time unless it's for brave the elements since that's guaranteed to save multiple dudes where at most harm's way can only protect two creatures and only in certain situations. Harm's way might be better as a sideboard card against zoo, burn, and delver decks, but it certainly has my eye.
imposing sovereign
I've always understood and agreed with OP's argument of two drop creatures like thalia, guardian of thraben being useful, but slowing down the overall plan. But personally, I have always believed cards like thalia were a necessary evil for a long time. No matter what iteration of White-Goyfs you are playing, you just can't win before your 4th turn. But there were plenty of decks that could win on turn 3 or their turn 4 when they are on the play. For me, a combination of thalia and hard removal was sometimes enough to get a game 1 win against these super fast spell based decks like twin, burn, infect, storm, etc., but with the current bannings on twin and summer bloom, and the increased popularity of the eldrazi, I suspect that midrange creature decks who once struggled against combo, will now be on the rise. If that happens, cards like mutagenic growth and harm's way will get better, which makes them pretty awkward alongside thalia. So I've elected to trade her out for imposing sovereign in the main. I haven't done much testing, so I can't say whether or not she's good or bad, but the main reason for cards like this is that, while they do slow down your own board progression by 1 turn, it can slow the opponent down for several turns depending on what they are playing. Creature dense midrange decks have always been a very tough match for aggro decks like ours. I think imposing sovereign is something we should really consider in the near future should Naya Zoo, Abzahn aggro, collected company, Eldrazi, merfolk, or chord of calling decks start to pick up. It's also a decent play against any deck running kitchen finks or lingering souls.
The last thing I want to say is that cards like champion of the parish, steppe lynx, and kytheon, hero of akros are an absolute must in this deck because of how aggressive they are. Kytheon does double duty here as a pseudo removal spell by clearing troublesome blockers the turn he flips. These are all high profile creatures with huge targets on their backs. I say a play set of each, at least. Even Kytheon. Yes he's legendary but there's a good chance he's either going to get killed or flipped the turn after you cast him. Drawing a second one really doesn't hurt you.
Additionally student of warfare and figure of destiny are vital because they give you a late game wincon when it's turn 7 or 8 and you're in topdeck mode. Or, you can dump mana into these guys early on against a deck playing board wipes so as to continue pressuring your opponent while holding back more creatures in hand. Because that has always been white weenie's greatest weakness, running out of gas. Brave the elements can certainly get you there, but you won't always draw it, which is why it's nice to have a plan B should your field go to your grave.
I'm still unsure of this sideboard. If harm's way is a dud I may go back to using kor firewalker. If it works, particularly against burn, I may drop Thalia altogether. And for those wondering why I keep one brave the elements in the side instead of running the full four, it is because mutagenic serves a similar purpose as brave and brave is almost always dead against affinity and eldrazi (Affinity being a significant portion of the meta). Plus the only deck that runs pyroclasm in the main is tron, so 90% of the time boardwipe will not be an issue game one. I feel pretty good with 3 for now, but that may change later.
The deck looks nice, but i'm not enterly sure about the imposing sovereing. Have you tried with Blind Obedience??? Yes, it's not a creature, but tapping also the opponents artifacts do wonders in certain matchs (Robots, I'm looking at you...), also the exort can be used as an extra whenever you need it.
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Sorry for the bad english, not my native language!!!
I'm going to give imposing sovereign a try first. If she's not good enough for the main board then I will take her out and try blind obedience in the side. Artifacts coming in to play tapped is very interesting! Not only does that slow affinity way down, but it also slows tron since they use artifacts to draw into their lands and wincons, while giving us a little reach with the extort ability. I'll let you know how it goes!
4. War Falcon is really worth considering in my opinion, it's rather easy to "activate" and gives much needed evasion to the deck, or can block an early flipped Delver that can race us (or Affinity's fliers and Blinkmoth/Inkmoth).
Since our deck can't really win long matches before sideboarding the appropriate hate cards I would rather run War Falcon over Figure of Destiny (which can be a big tempo loss if removed).
5. Another card which can be interesting for attrition matches is Silver-Inlaid Dagger which can make any human a big threat and keep us from overextending against controling decks.
Other equipment options are: Basilisk Collar (against big midrange decks and lifegain against burn)
and Captain's Claws (supports the Allies's sub-theme and fills the board).
Veteran's Armaments is also interesting with all the Soldiers in the deck and can be equipped for free (or be a finisher in a clogged board on a War Falcon).
There are so many good cards to try in mono-white. It really is difficult to settle on a particular list. The equipment is certainly interesting, especially infiltration lens and silver-inlaid dagger. Still, I think that figure of destiny and student of warfare already serve the purpose of late game wincons in attrition matches. I really, really want to fit honor of the pure in the deck somewhere, but I just don't know how. If imposing sovereign ends up being bad I may try that out instead. Though I'd like to maintain a minimum of 30 creatures.
war falcon and your late game cards are interesting though D90Dennis14. How have they been working out for you? Are there any decks your particular build does well against or struggles with?
After reading some of my favorite modern websites like mtg goldfish and modern nexus, there seems to be a prediction for affinity to really blow up now that twin and amulet bloom are out of the picture. And it shows in the recent price jump of cards like arcbound ravager and mox opal. In addition, B/x eldrazi are all over MTGO and doing well. I think it's only a matter of time till they start to shift to paper.
So the question is, who is going to regionals? Which is right around the corner here in America. And do you have a strategy for how to play against affinity or Eldrazi? Has anyone played that match up? I have almost no experience with affinity, and have yet to play eldrazi. It seems troublesome since our best card, brave the elements, is mostly dead against them
It seems troublesome since our best card, brave the elements, is mostly dead against them
I'm concerned about the rise of Affinity as well, and it seems as though our sideboards will need to be heavily geared toward it. Stony Silence, Sunlance, and Kataki, War's Wage are great against Affinity, so those will probably be necessary. BW Eldrazi isn't as bad of a matchup since it's a much slower deck, but stacking in a lot of removal (mainly Path to Exile) will be key. Leyline of Sanctity is also great at stopping their hand disruption and a few other ETB effects on their creatures.
Stony silence is likely the best choice since it also works against tron. Sunlance is good too but arcbound ravager can get around it pretty easily.
One card my friend is considering in the sideboard of his hyper aggro deck is gut shot. Gut shot is pretty narrow I'll admit, but it does seem really good against affinity, infect, delver, mana dorks, and those weird ass melira combo decks that go for infinite life.
I went on to the MTG salvation discussion boards to see what other people thought of gut shot in modern. I found a decent sized thread there where one guy brought it up and literally every other person after put it down. Saying that pyroclasm, forked bolt, electrolyze, etc., were all infinitely better. All except for one guy, who said, and I quote:
"I played a rogue Tier 3 deck that was essentially Naya Human Blitz. Four Gut Shot were very good in that deck because it was mana hungry turns 1-3, the turns in which I would try to assemble lethal damage or close to it. The deck list also had 4 Lightning Bolt because it is THAT good. Gut Shot was very integral in the strategy whether it was slowing Pod or Affinity down or making Scapeshift sacrifice their Sakura Tribe Elder early or moving a SCM away from blocking a 5/5 Champion of the Parish. The card was very good in about 75% of the matchups that I played against. However this being a tier 3 strategy, I doubt Gut Shot has the same effectiveness in the board of other decks, some of them Tier 1 decks."
Pod may not be around any more, but there are certainly a lot creatures this card kills without slowing us down at all. This dude ran a playset in his human build and made some pretty bold claims.
Emphasis on humans......Coincidence?.....
I think the point of Gut Shot is that it doesn't cost any mana, thus we can play it without slowing down our clock. I certainly think its worth a try, I'm just concerned that it ends up being one less creature that you draw.
Harm's way does do more, but the trade off is being able to cast gut shot for free. Again, no loss to our tempo or board development. For some reason affinity and infect gives me the jitters, and I think gut shot could potentially be a really good side against those two decks
It seems to be more of a sideboard card as it's not as good as PtE but it can probably compete with Dismember/Harm's Way and Sunlance for sideboard removal slots.
4 Elite Vanguard
4 Student of Warfare
2 Figure of Destiny
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Hero of Bladehold
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Wilt-Leaf Liege
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Sun Titan
2 Path to Exile
3 Honor of the Pure
4 Brave the Elements
1 Angelic Destiny
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
21 Plains
This looks like a great start, but more of a curve-out aggro than an all out-aggro, unlike most of the decks in this thread. Assuming you want to stick with the curve-out approach, I would definitely suggest replacing Elite Vanguard with Kytheon, Hero of Akros as it's an easy upgrade. You can also replace the Marsh Flats with Plains as they don't serve much of a purpose. I'd also suggest trying to work in 4 copies of Champion of the Parish, as you already have a lot of humans, perhaps removing Wilt-Leaf Liege and Sun Titan to do so. All of the best 1-drops are largely covered in previous posts, but some additional 2-4-drops that I like include Accorder Paladin, Silverblade Paladin, Frontline Medic, Crusader of Odric, Riders of Gavony, and Grand Abolisher, if you'd like to try any of those. Good luck!
16 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Eijango
2 Windbrisk Heights
4 Martyr of Sands
4 Serra's Ascendant
3 Kytheon, Hero of Ak
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Mardu Woe Hunter
3 Student of warfare
1 Dragon Hunter
4 Champion of the Parish
3 Accorder Paladin
4 Honor the Pure
2 Guardians Pledge
4 Spectral Procession
Sideboard
4 Path to Exile
2 Burrenton Forge-Tenders
2 Sundering Growth
1 Disenchant
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Knight of the White Orchid
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Mana Tithe
1 Leonin Arbiter
Works. Goes that way, really fast.
I mean, turn three attack with 3x 2/1 and Flip speed.
Turn 4 goldfish hopefully.
Turn 5 kill expected. . . . Mid game OK sometimes, ... late game does not exist.
Currently testing the Battlecry & Student. Guardians is underperforming. Spectral is huge.
I would replace Accorder Paladin with Consul's Lieutenant as the first strike can help it survive combat and get Renown'ed while Accorder Paladin would just die to anything.
Guardians' Pledge is only good if you are winning, I would drop it (and Dragon Hunter) and maindeck Path to Exile to deal with blockers.
Without Martyr of Sands (which on it's own doesn't do much as well) Serra Ascendant is bad and I wouldn't play them in anything outside the "Soul Sisters" deck that uses them to their full potential.
I wouldn't use a tap-land like Windbrisk Heights in a fast aggro deck as it can only slow you down, even maindeck Ghost Quarter will be a better idea in my opinion.
Another good option is to use Flagstones of Trokair to thin your deck and avoid flooding.
I would definitely sideboard: Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Suppression Field, Stony Silence and Rest in Peace (and maybe Ethersworn Canonist).
Guardians pledge left, replaced by dragon hunters mostly
Accorder Paladin has not lived up to hopes.
Path to Exile is just the wrong call, not main. Losing to creatureless while looking at 2 Path just blows.
Martyr of Sands gain gain enormous amounts of life and singlehandedly defeat red decks. She has done so repeatedly for me. And sometimes been sideboarded out. And since I am actually playing Marytr, Ascendant really does just win some games. Regularly. And there is nothing wrong with gaining some life sometimes.
I would use Windbrisk heights because it does in fact speed me up. Attack with 3 Tokens, activate the windbrisk, get a Honour the pure, Die. Admittedly it was better when I would say take 12 flying on turn 4 with a Guardians off the windbrisk, but hopefully yoiu get the point. Windbrisk play fab-tasticly, but for speed reasons I did reduce them to 2. Purely because I need faster, not longer.
A second Spectral Procession is also an awesome thing to cast from the Heights. Or an Indestructible Kytheon, or size 6/6 flying lifelink Serra, or just a dork ... Hell, Once I even got a Windbrisk Heights and tried again next turn.
The get a dork option should not be dismissed, it is like drawing a card, and casting it, out of a single land. Everything in the deck, except plains, is going to be good under that Windbrisk. They play just great. Same with the castle, and canopy. But Windbrisk is slightly different, it is Pyschological. They do not know what it is. They need to know, and I get to look at it, But not you. So they focus on it instead and do make mistakes.
Actually, all of my cards are like that, they are just a little bit off centre and people do not realise just what they are facing. They keep saying 'Soul Sisters', and I keep not arguing.
The castle is great.
I used to play 4 Ghost quarter base, then some across sideboard and main, the main, then board. ... They do not work very well. I used to play the 4 flagstones as well, just took them out.Great against smallpox, but crap against bloodmoon effects.
My Thing is faster than anything listed here, I think. And it seems to go a bit harder. My Champions have more fuel, I get flying avatars and hordes pretty reliably. Tier one cards are required for my opponent to win.
Even so, those cards seem to be causing me significant hassle.
Wrath effects, gifts, occasional reanimation, big tron spells.
The reason Consul's Lieutenant don't work is because it is just like accorder, but worse.
The first time it attacks.... is the problem with Accorder paladin, it don't. Not at the right times. If I have accepted that the basic problem with the Accorder is that it does not get to usefully make that first attack, what is the point of trying to make it's second attack even better?
And sure, First strike is nice. But, Consul's lieutenant cost 2 for 2 power, but I am looking for cards with fully double that pay off. 2 power for W, with an ability please, and if it is not useful it should get boarded.
I want to attack on turn 3 with 3 creatures, Consul dont help that.
I want goblin decks to have to block my creatures, as I play more of them.
I think I just need to play a little better, and get some luck.
I have tried Thalia, and probably will put one back in the board.
I was playing 2 Ethersworn main, and junked them for 2/1 for W
Suppression Field, Stony Silence and Rest in Peace all look great and read well, but they are for control decks. They do not kill people.
Thank you! I really appreciate your suggestions. Yes, is a more "midrangey" deck than others in this thread but I don't want to make it slow..
Some thoughts:
1) Kytheon, Hero of Akros ASAP! (but it should be cloggy 4 copies due to the legendary rule..?)
2) What I should remove to find room for Champion of the Parish? Ethersworn Canonist is not giving me satisfaction, maybe -1 Mirran Crusader and -1 Student of Warfare. Sun Titan yes is not fitting 100% with the deck BUT Wilt-Leaf Liege is boss! It is a 4/4 walking Honor of the Pure for only four mana.
3) How about Knight Exemplar?
4) Spells structure is good in your opinion? Brave the Elements is maybe better at 3, often I find myself wanting more Path to Exile in my hand and I'm gonna increase to 3 (maybe 4..).
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Kytheon, Hero of Akros
3 Student of Warfare
2 Figure of Destiny
2 Hero of Bladehold
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Wilt-Leaf Liege
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Sun Titan
3 Path to Exile
3 Honor of the Pure
3 Brave the Elements
1 Angelic Destiny
23 Plains
Regarding Serra ascendant, I agree with D90Dennis14, you would use it better in a Soul Sisters deck, wich is one of the best Weenies decks.
Champion of the Parish, Student of warfare, Kytheon, Hero of Akros, Figure of Destiny and Steppe Lynx are the most efficient creatures available for the deck. Goldfishing, by turn 3 an unblocked Champion can do 9 points of damage, a Lynx can do 8. I can understand that some of you guys don't use the lynx for budget, or the Figure because it isn't human, but suggesting 3-and more- drops dosen't do the cut for this kind of deck, especially in a format as fast as Modern.
I'm not saying than Hero of Bladehold and Sun Titan are bad cards. It's just that you can not use they're full potential in this kind of deck.
It is, but there simply aren't enough Goyfs to build an entire deck. Currently the deck relies on playing semi-decent cards like Boros Elite, Soldier of the Pantheon, Mardu Woe-Reaper, and Dragon Hunter just to fill out the ranks. There is no reason to discourage investigating alternatives to these sorts of cards, even if they aren't 1-drops. There may well be some 2-drops and 3-drops that work well in the deck, but we just haven't figured it out yet. This deck is far from being established, so I think it's worth encouraging experimentation.
No worries, I didn't mean to make it sound like I was calling you out, and I apologize. You're entirely correct in saying that the deck can't support more than a few larger creatures.
There's been a lot of really great discussion here, and as someone who has lived for white based aggro and rogue decks since the original mirrodin, I'm really enjoying all the interest, experimentation and exploration people are taking with this deck. Hats off to OP for bringing such a powerful and fun deck to modern.
That being said, I wanted to ask your opinions on particular cards that so far, to my knowledge anyways, I haven't seen anyone discuss.
When it comes to aggro, I've always believed that a proactive strategy composed of fast, powerful creatures backed by flexible cards that keep the tempo of the deck are the best way to build. That's why brave the elements is such an incredible card. It counters removal, enables an alpha strike, can force poor trades for the opponent in combat (It doesn't happen often, but I always love the zoo players face when I double block with 3-4 dudes and brave the elements, killing off a chunk of his team), and at one white mana it maintains the fast paced tempo of the deck.
Keeping that in mind, other cards I'm currently testing are harm's way, mutagenic growth, and imposing sovereign.
Mutagenic Growth
This is the main card I really want to argue for. Mutagenic growth has been pretty good to me thus far. In a lot of ways, it acts as a pseudo brave the elements. It counters burn, wins combat, and gives a little extra reach when you need two more points of damage to close out the game, all at zero mana. Depending on your particular build, a lot of our creatures sport a 2/1 body, which means mutagenic can't save them from the most popular 3 damage burn spells like lightning bolt or lightning helix. But, from my own personal experience, cards like mardu woe-reaper and soldier of the pantheon are rarely burn targets. For me, it's always been a steppe lynx rolling a land fall trigger, a 2/2 or 3/3 champion of the parish, a 3/3 boros elite, or one of our mana sinks like student of warfare or figure of destiny usually after they've already become 2/2 or 3/3. For these cards you can safely tap out and still protect your dudes from almost any burn spell. In a pinch you can save one of your guys from a two damage burn spell like kolaghan's command, forked bolt, pyroclasm, electrolyze, or reality hemorrhage (for those of you running kor firewalker in your sideboard), though you are still getting 2 for 1'd or even 3 for 1'd most times, so it has to be an important creature that you are saving.
In combat, mutagenic is usually a blowout the first time you play it, because the opponent will never expect it. This is especially true if you tap out first. I generally use it to get one of our larger goyfs through an actual tarmogoyf, tasigur, the golden fang, etc., or to save one of our weenies from a blocking 1-2 power creature like huntmaster of the fells or tokens from lingering souls, though lingering souls is still really hard to play against haha. I sometimes use it defensively as well by blocking with a creature that still has summoning sickness
Additionally, mutagenic provides a little instant speed reach in a deck that runs no mountains. And sometimes, 2 damage is all you need to close out. The very first time I took this deck out for a walk at my local IQ a few months back, literally every game I lost came down to the opponent finishing at 1-5 life or gaining enough life to get back to double digits after going down to 1-5 life. You can look at the very first post I made in this thread for reference.
Finally, it's zero mana.
ZERO. MANA.
Playing cards for free is exactly what this deck wants. You can advance your board state, dump all your mana into figure of destiny or student of warfare and still play this card with no loss to tempo. Anyone who isn't playing this card, I highly recommend trying 2-3 copies in your main or at least your sideboard. I will admit, this is usually a pretty bad card against burn and affinity, but it does well in it's flexibility against everything else game 1. One of the other reasons I love flexible cards like these, especially in the main board, is that you already have a decent win percentage against most decks game 1 by being so fast. Having a less powerful card that covers all your bases ensures more game 1 victories and makes sideboarding easier as you can take out this less powerful but more flexible card for a specific/hateful one. On top of that, you can totally bluff having mutagenic in hand once the opponent sees it. Even if you side the damn thing out it really forces the opponent to rethink all their combat math which puts them under additional mental stress and often leads to more conservative play.
harm's way
Harm's way is another less powerful but more flexible card that comes at little to no tempo loss as well. It protects our larger creatures from 2 and 3 damage burn spells, it helps to win combat, and can act as removal or reach in a deck that, once again, plays no mountains. I'm really interested in trying this card out as 1-2 of in the mainboard, especially alongside mutagenic growth, but I wanted to hear if anyone else has experienced success with the card. The potential to 2 for 1 an opponent by countering a burn spell or saving a creature in combat and then shooting down a young pyromancer, delver of secrets, whatever's blocking you, etc. or just getting that extra two damage in seems really attractive. However, I'm not a fan of leaving up one mana all the time unless it's for brave the elements since that's guaranteed to save multiple dudes where at most harm's way can only protect two creatures and only in certain situations. Harm's way might be better as a sideboard card against zoo, burn, and delver decks, but it certainly has my eye.
imposing sovereign
I've always understood and agreed with OP's argument of two drop creatures like thalia, guardian of thraben being useful, but slowing down the overall plan. But personally, I have always believed cards like thalia were a necessary evil for a long time. No matter what iteration of White-Goyfs you are playing, you just can't win before your 4th turn. But there were plenty of decks that could win on turn 3 or their turn 4 when they are on the play. For me, a combination of thalia and hard removal was sometimes enough to get a game 1 win against these super fast spell based decks like twin, burn, infect, storm, etc., but with the current bannings on twin and summer bloom, and the increased popularity of the eldrazi, I suspect that midrange creature decks who once struggled against combo, will now be on the rise. If that happens, cards like mutagenic growth and harm's way will get better, which makes them pretty awkward alongside thalia. So I've elected to trade her out for imposing sovereign in the main. I haven't done much testing, so I can't say whether or not she's good or bad, but the main reason for cards like this is that, while they do slow down your own board progression by 1 turn, it can slow the opponent down for several turns depending on what they are playing. Creature dense midrange decks have always been a very tough match for aggro decks like ours. I think imposing sovereign is something we should really consider in the near future should Naya Zoo, Abzahn aggro, collected company, Eldrazi, merfolk, or chord of calling decks start to pick up. It's also a decent play against any deck running kitchen finks or lingering souls.
The last thing I want to say is that cards like champion of the parish, steppe lynx, and kytheon, hero of akros are an absolute must in this deck because of how aggressive they are. Kytheon does double duty here as a pseudo removal spell by clearing troublesome blockers the turn he flips. These are all high profile creatures with huge targets on their backs. I say a play set of each, at least. Even Kytheon. Yes he's legendary but there's a good chance he's either going to get killed or flipped the turn after you cast him. Drawing a second one really doesn't hurt you.
Additionally student of warfare and figure of destiny are vital because they give you a late game wincon when it's turn 7 or 8 and you're in topdeck mode. Or, you can dump mana into these guys early on against a deck playing board wipes so as to continue pressuring your opponent while holding back more creatures in hand. Because that has always been white weenie's greatest weakness, running out of gas. Brave the elements can certainly get you there, but you won't always draw it, which is why it's nice to have a plan B should your field go to your grave.
That being said, here's my current list
4 champion of the parish
4 steppe lynx
4 kytheon, hero of akros
4 boros elite
4 soldier of the pantheon
4 student of warfare
4 figure of destiny
3 imposing sovereign
4 path to exile
3 brave the elements
3 mutagenic growth
Lands
13 Fetch lands
6 plains
1 brave the elements
3 harm's way
2 rest in peace
3 thalia, guardian of thraben
2 stony silence
2 journey to nowhere
2 dismember
I'm still unsure of this sideboard. If harm's way is a dud I may go back to using kor firewalker. If it works, particularly against burn, I may drop Thalia altogether. And for those wondering why I keep one brave the elements in the side instead of running the full four, it is because mutagenic serves a similar purpose as brave and brave is almost always dead against affinity and eldrazi (Affinity being a significant portion of the meta). Plus the only deck that runs pyroclasm in the main is tron, so 90% of the time boardwipe will not be an issue game one. I feel pretty good with 3 for now, but that may change later.
Thoughts?
2. If Thalia becomes less relevant I think Honor of the Pure should be one of the best 2-drop options, I'd take it over Imposing Sovereign.
3. Blind Obedience is basically only good against decks where Stony Silence will do a better job in my opinion.
4. War Falcon is really worth considering in my opinion, it's rather easy to "activate" and gives much needed evasion to the deck, or can block an early flipped Delver that can race us (or Affinity's fliers and Blinkmoth/Inkmoth).
Since our deck can't really win long matches before sideboarding the appropriate hate cards I would rather run War Falcon over Figure of Destiny (which can be a big tempo loss if removed).
5. Another card which can be interesting for attrition matches is Silver-Inlaid Dagger which can make any human a big threat and keep us from overextending against controling decks.
Other equipment options are: Basilisk Collar (against big midrange decks and lifegain against burn)
and Captain's Claws (supports the Allies's sub-theme and fills the board).
Veteran's Armaments is also interesting with all the Soldiers in the deck and can be equipped for free (or be a finisher in a clogged board on a War Falcon).
war falcon and your late game cards are interesting though D90Dennis14. How have they been working out for you? Are there any decks your particular build does well against or struggles with?
I've been rather pleased with War Falcon so far, but I didn't test the equipment yet.
So the question is, who is going to regionals? Which is right around the corner here in America. And do you have a strategy for how to play against affinity or Eldrazi? Has anyone played that match up? I have almost no experience with affinity, and have yet to play eldrazi. It seems troublesome since our best card, brave the elements, is mostly dead against them
I'm concerned about the rise of Affinity as well, and it seems as though our sideboards will need to be heavily geared toward it. Stony Silence, Sunlance, and Kataki, War's Wage are great against Affinity, so those will probably be necessary. BW Eldrazi isn't as bad of a matchup since it's a much slower deck, but stacking in a lot of removal (mainly Path to Exile) will be key. Leyline of Sanctity is also great at stopping their hand disruption and a few other ETB effects on their creatures.
One card my friend is considering in the sideboard of his hyper aggro deck is gut shot. Gut shot is pretty narrow I'll admit, but it does seem really good against affinity, infect, delver, mana dorks, and those weird ass melira combo decks that go for infinite life.
I went on to the MTG salvation discussion boards to see what other people thought of gut shot in modern. I found a decent sized thread there where one guy brought it up and literally every other person after put it down. Saying that pyroclasm, forked bolt, electrolyze, etc., were all infinitely better. All except for one guy, who said, and I quote:
"I played a rogue Tier 3 deck that was essentially Naya Human Blitz. Four Gut Shot were very good in that deck because it was mana hungry turns 1-3, the turns in which I would try to assemble lethal damage or close to it. The deck list also had 4 Lightning Bolt because it is THAT good. Gut Shot was very integral in the strategy whether it was slowing Pod or Affinity down or making Scapeshift sacrifice their Sakura Tribe Elder early or moving a SCM away from blocking a 5/5 Champion of the Parish. The card was very good in about 75% of the matchups that I played against. However this being a tier 3 strategy, I doubt Gut Shot has the same effectiveness in the board of other decks, some of them Tier 1 decks."
Pod may not be around any more, but there are certainly a lot creatures this card kills without slowing us down at all. This dude ran a playset in his human build and made some pretty bold claims.
Emphasis on humans......Coincidence?.....
Also, I'm assuming SCM means snapcaster mage
I think the point of Gut Shot is that it doesn't cost any mana, thus we can play it without slowing down our clock. I certainly think its worth a try, I'm just concerned that it ends up being one less creature that you draw.
It seems to be more of a sideboard card as it's not as good as PtE but it can probably compete with Dismember/Harm's Way and Sunlance for sideboard removal slots.