There is a Modern GP coming to Vancouver in February and I have this brew that has been working very well for me that I'd like to get fine tuned for the event. Here's the decklist with a brief description, card choices and my current thoughts below.
Basically this is UR Delver tempo deck with Nacatl splashed in for added threat density and consistency. The main premise is to run out a turn 1 guy that will become a 3 power beater and then protect it with counter magic and burn. Aside from a fairly painful mana base, the deck has solid game against most T1 decks. Affinity is the biggest problem but the SB has several ways to interact with them post-board. The problem I had with other Delver decks, is that without turn 1 Delver, the deck was rather durdly and bought time but without applying pressure the deck's success diminished as the game went on. So having 8 1 mana 3/xs has been extremely helpful in keeping pressure on the opponent. Plus, playing so many colors means ever card in the deck is good.
The Creatures Delver of Secrets + Wild Nacatl = The main reason for the deck. Clocking an opponent for 3+ plus a turn is solid and these guys only get better in multiples. Noble Hierarch = Exalted brings extra pressure from the other creatures, reducing the turns to kill from 7 to 5. Good in multiples and gives mana advantage. Snapcaster Mage = Bolt+Snap+Bolt is one of the strongest things to be doing in the meta. He has access to 8 "bolts" as well as being additional counter spells when needed. Then he beats in for two on top of that. He does everything the deck needs but being a 2cmc + the flashblack spell is a touch awkward for the low mana count, so he only gets 3 slots.
The Spells Lightning Bolt = I'm playing Red. Auto 4-of. Serum Visions = Smoothing draws and setting up Delver flips are very important for this deck and managing inconsistency is big. It's usually a turn 2 or 3 play but is typically very good whenever cast. Spell Pierce = 1cmc generic counter spell. It's a good surprise card and great for counter wars. A bit too narrow to warrant more than 2 copies. Lightning Helix = Bolts 5-8. The life gain is fairly relevant for offsetting the damage the land base usually incurs as well. Mana Leak = The hard counter of the deck. Games generally don't last to where the opponent can play around it. Being 1U is very important as well. Remand = One of, it not, the best Tempo cards in the format. Putting the opponent off of plays for a turn can usually close out games quickly. Especially with Mana Leak or Bolt to soak up the card the following turn. Arc Trail = This has been a pretty awesome 1-of for the deck. Electrolyze at 3 mana is a bit awkward for the mana base and restricts plays. It has a solid damage to cmc ratio but is a sorcery. I've been really happy with it though. It kills off most things and can always go to their face for 2.
The Spice Steelshaper's Gift = This functions as a second copy of Runechanter's Pike while simultaneously buffing the Pike. Runechanter's Pike = A staple from back when Delver was standard legal. First Strike and buffs with all the spells in the deck, this thing makes attacking brutal. I've given it the go over something like Sword of Fire and Ice mainly because of cmc restrictions. Two free mana on a turn is much easier to come by than 3. Ajani Vengeant = Sleeping a permanent and some extra reach are nice. Plus he makes for a great distraction for opponents. Generally he isn't needed to win games but when he does resolve, I end up winning those games. Moorland Haunt = There are removal heavy decks out there and Abrupt Decay is a thing. Having a way to recur value off of lost creatures is great. Like in old standard, the spirits hold a Pike exceptionally well.
Notable Exclusions: Tarmogoyf = I tried him as a 3-of over Pike/Gift/Ajani but he typically didn't hit play until turn 4+ and was generally lackluster. I don't think he'd be a terrible option here but equipping a creature with a Pike for 4+ damage on a creature already in play (essentially haste) has worked better for me.
Current thoughts:
- The lands are pretty tight but I've been considering running a basic Plains over the Sacred Foundry. The main reason I haven't switched yet is that I'm not sure how prevalent Blood Moon will be at the tournament and it hasn't been a problem at my Meta. I like the Sacred Foundry as a way to instantly make Nacatl a 3/3 but it can't be fetched with Misty Rainforest. It's pretty close either way, but I think the Foundry is safer.
- Timely Reinforcements vs Leyline of Sanctity in the sideboard. They serve similar functions. Mainly anti-Burn. Timely is better against aggro decks, where as Leyline is better against the discard spells. I like that Timely still flips Delver but I think this choice may be more meta dependent. In which case Leyline seems better for a higher caliber tournament.
-I was having some issues with flooding out at 20 lands (seeing 4+ in a game along with Nobles). I cut a fetchland (from 9 to 8) to go to 19 to help reduce this.
I'm making this thread to help track my changes to the deck and tuning but I'd also love any input for the community here. Questions, comments and suggestions are more than welcome. More eyes can only make things better.
There is a Modern GP coming to Vancouver in February and I have this brew that has been working very well for me that I'd like to get fine tuned for the event. Here's the decklist with a brief description, card choices and my current thoughts below.
P.S. I actually like this deck. I also like where Esper Delver will be with the Onslaught Fetches being legal, as Esper Gifts, Grixis Cruel Control and Domain Zoo.
Why would you make those changes? I know that what you are recommending is more like the UR Delver removal/counter suite but I'm really not a fan of Spell Snare. It's solid while on the draw in a handful of matches for their turn 2 but it loses a lot of utility as the game progresses (outside of the GBx match up where most of their deck is made of 2-drops). I'd rather have more versatile answers.
I had a discussion with Jeff Hoogland about Pillar in UR Delver on reddit a couple weeks ago. I know he uses and recommends it but he also boards it out in every match up except Pod. I agree it's solid against Pod in game 1 but if I were really worried about that match up, Magma Spray out of the sideboard would be acceptable. Sorcery speed for a Shock is mediocre in a deck looking to bluff instants to victory. Path to Exile hits the cards that I need exiled (Voice and Finks; to some extent Archangel of Thune) assuming counter magic doesn't hit them first and I have more than enough Burn for everything else.
Forked Bolt seems like a replacement for Arc Trail at 1cmc. Picking off a x/2 and an x/1 seems mildly better out of a 1-of in the deck. I've personally had a lot of success with the Arc Trail and like its place in the deck. I'm going to give Electrolyze a try and see if the instant speed and card draw is worth the extra mana. I can give Forked Bolt a try next time. Though thinking about all this, makes me want to give Electrickery a try as well. It is a lot like Forked Bolt but deals completely with Young Pyromancer/his tokens as well as Lingering Souls.
How do you feel about Trickbind? a big player in the Legacy RUG Delver deck is stifle for mana denial so and I think this kind of effect can find a home in modern. Trickbind is uncounterable and has a lot of relevant targets in the format aside from just fetchlands (even though they're going to be a huge target now that the Onslaught fetches have been reprinted).
I was considering running Trickbind over the 4th Remand. I do like its interaction with several cards in the meta. Though I don't think Stifling lands is really the best use of it. Most of the combo decks in the format are held off a turn or fold to it (countering the Storm trigger on Grapeshot for example). Which is probably the most relevant use of it. I will test with it but I'm not sure it will necessarily be better than just buying a turn with Remand.
I went 3-1 at my Modern tournament yesterday playing this list:
A lot of the Tier 1 decks that used to show up have tapered off unfortunately. I played against Mono-B Devotion, UB Faeries, Mono-B Infect, and UW Control. I only lost to Devotion. I crushed him game 1 with a couple creatures and burn while he lost life to Phyrexian Arena. Game 2 he resolved 2 Phyrexian Crusaders into my board of Nacatl and hand full of burn. Game 3 I got him to two life and had a 1/1 spirit and a Hierarch and needed him to brick on a flying blocker (which seemed likely since I had only seen ground beaters) and he dropped Griselbrand into play. I had to top deck Snag, Snapcaster or one of the remaining 5 burn spells in my deck. Got a Misty Rainforest and scooped. This sort of scenario showed up once in every round that I played. Twice it worked out for me (against Infect and Faeries) and the other times it didn't (Devotion and Control).
Electrolyze was alright the two times I saw it. I killed a Vendilion Clique with it in response to the trigger, which was decent value. The other time, I just shot my opponent for two EoT and drew a card. Which I guess isn't terrible but not really what I want to be doing with three mana. Sword of Fire and Ice was pretty solid and won me a game by allowing me to get in for an additional two points of damage but Pike would have done the same in that situation. So I'm seeing it as whether drawing cards is more relevant than First Strike (pushing through more damage and making blocking hell for my opponent) and it's actually pretty close. I'll play around with both of these a bit more and see how that goes but I think Electrolyze will end up getting cut.
I would like to say that It was pretty great having more counter magic than the control deck. I won every counter war we got into except for one over him Pathing a Delver on turn 5 and that was only because I was shy one blue source (I only drew one fetch that game).
I really like this style of Delver port. Do you think the new fetches will change your landbase at all? If they do there might be grounds for a copies or two Tribal Flames. It wouldn't really strain your mana base and it might give you that last burn spell it sounds like you needed a couple of times. Its a shame it a sorcery though, because I am really digging the control, draw-go kind of suite.
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If you always do what you always did, then you'll always get what you always got.
The mana base is actually really solid as is. I used to run a split of 4/3/2 of Misty/Scalding/Arid but I'm aiming to have turn 1 U or G depending on Delver or Nacatl into a turn 2 3/3 Nacatl/having Lightning Helix up (WR). So having Steam Vents+Temple Garden or Hallowed Fountain+Stomping Ground meets those requirements. A 4/4 split on Misty and Arid gets me to that regardless of which fetch I have with Misty being unable to grab Sacred Foundry for the unlikely and awkward draw that needs to instantly turn on Nacatl. To be fair, Flooded Strand and Wooded Foothills provides the same color coverage but Strand can't grab Stomping Ground as opposed to Misty not grabbing Sacred Foundry. I'd rather be able to grab all of the relevant fetches and have occasional access to Foundry. Plus I have a playset of foil Mistys that I like using.
Splashing B for Tribal Flames is pretty weak in my opinion. I don't think the deck really benefits from one mana discard and anything costing double black is uncastable (so no LilianaOTV). If I really wanted extra burn, Boros Charm is probably a better choice since it is instant, blanks Abrupt Decay and is on a casting cost that the deck already plays towards having. Charms in general seems a bit weaker than some of the other choices that the deck could run but Boros Charm is something I have considered trying out and most likely will in the near future.
I've been trying to decide on a new Delver of Secrets deck, and I think this is just the ticket. I thought about playing Wild Nacatl along with Delver a long time ago, but I couldn't think of a good shell that would tie them together. Lightning Helix + Noble Hierarch is what I was missing, and I think it looks great.
Anyway, I was wondering if I could pick your brain a little?
Have you considered Heroes' Reunion in the sideboard? I don't know how much burn there is in your meta, but I'll be playing this primarily online where burn is very popular. So, I wondered if that might be worth a couple sideboard slots.
edit: Actually, I think the part that is confusing me is the Sacred Foundry and Basic Mountain. I'd rather cut those for more duals. Something like this...
Is Jeskai control a difficult matchup? I've always had trouble with them playing Delver decks, but this one seems to have more counter magic than I usually run and I'm curious how much that helps.
In general I don't like cards that solely gain life. There are enough cards that do something and gain life, that something like Hero's Reunion isn't worthwhile. That's why I run Timely Reinforcements because it gains 6 life and gets you 3 guys. Though, I've been considering cutting them for Leyline of Sanctity. There are two burn players in my meta, so it does come up occasionally. Timely has been decent enough in that match up but there are a lot of discard decks showing up in my meta and having the dual coverage of Leyline for both match ups seems better. It not being able to flip Delver is a bit awkward but it seems like the right call.
The problem with prioritizing Stomping Ground and Hallowed Fountain over Temple Garden and Steam Vents is that they don't activate Moorland Haunt. It may not come up very often but it is a thing to be aware of. The Mountain and the Sacred Foundry are there for a couple reasons. People caught on to me originally only running Forest and Island in my deck. So they would attack my Red and White sources with things like Ghost Quarter or Path on Noble. I put in the Mountain so I can fetch the color when I needed it. Sacred Foundry is borderline going to be a Plains (to get a white source for value when I need it from a Path or whatever). Though if the meta doesn't have a ton of Blood Moon, being able to instantly turn on Nacatl with a fetch is worth running. I'm not positive on that decision quite yet. I am going to try out running a basic Plains to see if that's relevant.
I generally haven't had much issue with the different UWx control decks. Not that it is a particularly easy match up but if you play to your outs and make as much use of them tapping out as you can, it shouldn't be too difficult. Being able to out-counter them is quite nice. We are more punishing on them than they are on us. So keeping pressure is usually good enough to get there.
I usually don't like pure life-gain either, but I can make an exception when playing against a Burn deck. Gaining 7 life (Heroes' Reunion) is effectively the same as countering two spells, which could be thought of as a kind of card advantage. I do kind of like Timely Reinforcements as well, which could be decent against other aggressive decks, like Zoo or Merfolk, but a 2cmc instant is much more castable than a 3cmc sorcery. You might be right though that Leyline of Sanctity is just the best option and I'll have to consider that as well.
Yeah, I did notice that Stomping Ground + Hallowed Fountain couldn't turn on Moorland Haunt, but I think I was still having trouble understanding the benefit of splitting the dual-land suite, so I figured I might as well just make it 50/50, by running two of each of the four. If you consider Steam Vents + Temple Garden to be just superior, which very well might be correct, then why not run something like this now that we (will) have access to all the fetchlands...
Compared to your mana base this has effective access to: W13 U14 R13 G14
While your's is: W12 U12 R13 G12
Having access to more colors, especially the colors you need to cast your creatures, seems more important than some marginal additional protection to Blood Moon and multiple Path to Exiles perhaps.
I'm not entirely sure if I'd go all in on Steam + Temple. I like to err on the side of versatility and the mana base I posted reflects that. The "core" lands are definitely Steam and Temple. Having access to the others to round out potential unseen combinations of mana requirements has been useful for me. Having access to basics is fairly important and has come up as being relevant several times. Being able to conserve your life total whenever possible is a nice boon for the deck. Honestly, I haven't really ever had mana issues outside of flooding out with 20 in the deck. I have fetched for each shock over several different games and match ups. I'm always glad to have had them. I think quantifying the mana base the way you are deviates the focus away from the functionality of the toolbox style mana. As long as there are roughly equivalent amounts of colors with easy access, then the difference between 12 and 13 sources shouldn't be a huge deal. Each spell specifically only needs a single mana of any given color. The main focus should be on having the mana to use the variety of 2cmc spells off of any given two lands. If you think going all in on Steam Vents and Temple Garden is where you'd want to be, then go ahead. It isn't inherently wrong and will let you use everything. Just seems unnecessarily limited to me.
I tested a lot of game 1's against Burn today. It's not nearly as bad as I thought and only gets better post-board. Having access to Lightning Helix is big but the main thing is having tons of ways to interact. Nacatl stone walling Goblin Guide is real nice. The main things I noticed for the match up are keeping pressure in play is important. The games I won I was getting in for 3-4 and finished off with bolts. They do a surprising amount of damage to themselves. Especially with Eidolon of the Great Revel. The games were usually very close but being able to buy turns with counter magic is very important. Also, if you are at a low life total (like, 7 or less) don't tap out end of turn. Other than that, tight play and winning the die roll are your best bet. Game 1 I would say is around 50/50. It can tilt toward one deck or the other really easy through the course of a game.
They have been amazing. Getting in for additional damage and mana advantage are both huge benefits to running it. Plus it's a one drop and fits the deck's playstyle perfectly.
I played against UG Eternal Command, Merfolk, Bloom Titan Combo, and Mono Black Infect.
Notes from the evening:
- If you have Delver and Nacatl in your opener, leading Nacatl seems to be the correct play. Especially if you have Noble in your opener as well. Fetch, Temple Garden, Nacatl into Fetch, Steam Vents, Noble, Delver, swing 4 is pretty brutal. That sequence came up 3 times last night and I initially tried running out Delver first but having to choose between Noble or Nacatl the following turn slowed the amount of available pressure. I ended up running out Noble after flipping Delver to Visions and cast the Visions. So things worked out, but in general, I think playing out Nacatl first represents more consistent pressure and also plays the illusion game of us being on Zoo, instead of a tempo deck.
- Grim Lavamancer was fantastic in the 3 games I saw it. Having uncounterable burn is great and since there is just the one, him and Snapcaster never stepped on each others toes.
- Electrolyze has been so-so for me. I tend to side it out fairly often and the times where I do cast it, it's usually just an EoT shock+draw. Which feels really bad. I think I'm going to go back to Arc Trail or I'll give Forked Bolt a try. Something along those lines.
- Sword of Fire and Ice has been decent. The three mana and sorcery speed on it has been pretty awkward but when it comes down to the end of a game, having it in play feels really good and instantly turns all the creatures into significant threats. Connecting with it isn't necessarily game winning but it's pretty close. I still think Pike is solid but with Lavamancer in the mix now, Sword is probably the right choice.
- Spell Snare never was relevant in the 2 games where I saw it. I'd still want it over Vapor Snag but I want to try something else over it. A friend recommended Qasali Pridemage as more Exalted as well as MB enchant/artifact hate (as well as more cat flavor for the deck). Which sounds decent but I don't know about cutting more instants/sorceries from the deck. Delver is reliant on blind flips pretty often and whiffing is pretty painful. I'd have to test to see if going to 24 spells is relevant but I have to imagine that it is. If anyone has any other recommendations for spells that may be more useful in this slot, I'd love to hear them.
Mana Tithe is a bit too narrow. Mana Leak already has limitations because this deck doesn't kill exceptionally fast. I don't see a one time "gotcha!" card being fantastic. Swan Song giving them a 2/2 flyer is a fairly large liability while running Delver. I don't think I like either of those options. Path isn't a terrible idea but I only really like it against Twin decks. The extra land works against Leak. I could definitely give it a try but I'm not huge on the idea. I think I may try out Boros Charm as a foil to kill spells and it also gives the deck some reach. I really like the techy 1-of aspect of the deck.
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Modern:
RUG Forever A Loam
Counter CatUWRG
RGTitan Fall
QuestSteelUW
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4 Delver of Secrets
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Snapcaster Mage
Spells: 26
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Serum Visions
2 Spell Pierce
1 Steelshaper's Gift
4 Lightning Helix
4 Mana Leak
4 Remand
1 Arc Trail
1 Runechanter's Pike
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Moorland Haunt
4 Arid Mesa
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Steam Vents
2 Temple Garden
1 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Back to Nature
1 Counterflux
2 Path to Exile
2 Spellskite
1 Stony Silence
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Wear // Tear
Basically this is UR Delver tempo deck with Nacatl splashed in for added threat density and consistency. The main premise is to run out a turn 1 guy that will become a 3 power beater and then protect it with counter magic and burn. Aside from a fairly painful mana base, the deck has solid game against most T1 decks. Affinity is the biggest problem but the SB has several ways to interact with them post-board. The problem I had with other Delver decks, is that without turn 1 Delver, the deck was rather durdly and bought time but without applying pressure the deck's success diminished as the game went on. So having 8 1 mana 3/xs has been extremely helpful in keeping pressure on the opponent. Plus, playing so many colors means ever card in the deck is good.
The Creatures
Delver of Secrets + Wild Nacatl = The main reason for the deck. Clocking an opponent for 3+ plus a turn is solid and these guys only get better in multiples.
Noble Hierarch = Exalted brings extra pressure from the other creatures, reducing the turns to kill from 7 to 5. Good in multiples and gives mana advantage.
Snapcaster Mage = Bolt+Snap+Bolt is one of the strongest things to be doing in the meta. He has access to 8 "bolts" as well as being additional counter spells when needed. Then he beats in for two on top of that. He does everything the deck needs but being a 2cmc + the flashblack spell is a touch awkward for the low mana count, so he only gets 3 slots.
The Spells
Lightning Bolt = I'm playing Red. Auto 4-of.
Serum Visions = Smoothing draws and setting up Delver flips are very important for this deck and managing inconsistency is big. It's usually a turn 2 or 3 play but is typically very good whenever cast.
Spell Pierce = 1cmc generic counter spell. It's a good surprise card and great for counter wars. A bit too narrow to warrant more than 2 copies.
Lightning Helix = Bolts 5-8. The life gain is fairly relevant for offsetting the damage the land base usually incurs as well.
Mana Leak = The hard counter of the deck. Games generally don't last to where the opponent can play around it. Being 1U is very important as well.
Remand = One of, it not, the best Tempo cards in the format. Putting the opponent off of plays for a turn can usually close out games quickly. Especially with Mana Leak or Bolt to soak up the card the following turn.
Arc Trail = This has been a pretty awesome 1-of for the deck. Electrolyze at 3 mana is a bit awkward for the mana base and restricts plays. It has a solid damage to cmc ratio but is a sorcery. I've been really happy with it though. It kills off most things and can always go to their face for 2.
The Spice
Steelshaper's Gift = This functions as a second copy of Runechanter's Pike while simultaneously buffing the Pike.
Runechanter's Pike = A staple from back when Delver was standard legal. First Strike and buffs with all the spells in the deck, this thing makes attacking brutal. I've given it the go over something like Sword of Fire and Ice mainly because of cmc restrictions. Two free mana on a turn is much easier to come by than 3.
Ajani Vengeant = Sleeping a permanent and some extra reach are nice. Plus he makes for a great distraction for opponents. Generally he isn't needed to win games but when he does resolve, I end up winning those games.
Moorland Haunt = There are removal heavy decks out there and Abrupt Decay is a thing. Having a way to recur value off of lost creatures is great. Like in old standard, the spirits hold a Pike exceptionally well.
Notable Exclusions:
Tarmogoyf = I tried him as a 3-of over Pike/Gift/Ajani but he typically didn't hit play until turn 4+ and was generally lackluster. I don't think he'd be a terrible option here but equipping a creature with a Pike for 4+ damage on a creature already in play (essentially haste) has worked better for me.
Current thoughts:
- The lands are pretty tight but I've been considering running a basic Plains over the Sacred Foundry. The main reason I haven't switched yet is that I'm not sure how prevalent Blood Moon will be at the tournament and it hasn't been a problem at my Meta. I like the Sacred Foundry as a way to instantly make Nacatl a 3/3 but it can't be fetched with Misty Rainforest. It's pretty close either way, but I think the Foundry is safer.
- Timely Reinforcements vs Leyline of Sanctity in the sideboard. They serve similar functions. Mainly anti-Burn. Timely is better against aggro decks, where as Leyline is better against the discard spells. I like that Timely still flips Delver but I think this choice may be more meta dependent. In which case Leyline seems better for a higher caliber tournament.
-I was having some issues with flooding out at 20 lands (seeing 4+ in a game along with Nobles). I cut a fetchland (from 9 to 8) to go to 19 to help reduce this.
I'm making this thread to help track my changes to the deck and tuning but I'd also love any input for the community here. Questions, comments and suggestions are more than welcome. More eyes can only make things better.
Potential changes to test:
-1 Runechanter's Pike, +1 Sword of Fire and Ice (to determine if mana cost is restrictive)
-1 Remand, +1 Trickbind (a bit of variety and for its utility against Pod, Twin and other decks)
Looks good, see you at GP Van.
P.S. I actually like this deck. I also like where Esper Delver will be with the Onslaught Fetches being legal, as Esper Gifts, Grixis Cruel Control and Domain Zoo.
My Modern decks:
B/R/G Living End G/R/B
G/R Tron R/G
U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U
R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
I had a discussion with Jeff Hoogland about Pillar in UR Delver on reddit a couple weeks ago. I know he uses and recommends it but he also boards it out in every match up except Pod. I agree it's solid against Pod in game 1 but if I were really worried about that match up, Magma Spray out of the sideboard would be acceptable. Sorcery speed for a Shock is mediocre in a deck looking to bluff instants to victory. Path to Exile hits the cards that I need exiled (Voice and Finks; to some extent Archangel of Thune) assuming counter magic doesn't hit them first and I have more than enough Burn for everything else.
Forked Bolt seems like a replacement for Arc Trail at 1cmc. Picking off a x/2 and an x/1 seems mildly better out of a 1-of in the deck. I've personally had a lot of success with the Arc Trail and like its place in the deck. I'm going to give Electrolyze a try and see if the instant speed and card draw is worth the extra mana. I can give Forked Bolt a try next time. Though thinking about all this, makes me want to give Electrickery a try as well. It is a lot like Forked Bolt but deals completely with Young Pyromancer/his tokens as well as Lingering Souls.
I went 3-1 at my Modern tournament yesterday playing this list:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Snapcaster Mage
Spells: 26
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Serum Visions
2 Vapor Snag
2 Spell Pierce
4 Lightning Helix
4 Mana Leak
4 Remand
1 Electrolyze
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Moorland Haunt
4 Arid Mesa
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Steam Vents
2 Temple Garden
1 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Back to Nature
1 Counterflux
2 Path to Exile
2 Spellskite
1 Stony Silence
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Wear // Tear
A lot of the Tier 1 decks that used to show up have tapered off unfortunately. I played against Mono-B Devotion, UB Faeries, Mono-B Infect, and UW Control. I only lost to Devotion. I crushed him game 1 with a couple creatures and burn while he lost life to Phyrexian Arena. Game 2 he resolved 2 Phyrexian Crusaders into my board of Nacatl and hand full of burn. Game 3 I got him to two life and had a 1/1 spirit and a Hierarch and needed him to brick on a flying blocker (which seemed likely since I had only seen ground beaters) and he dropped Griselbrand into play. I had to top deck Snag, Snapcaster or one of the remaining 5 burn spells in my deck. Got a Misty Rainforest and scooped. This sort of scenario showed up once in every round that I played. Twice it worked out for me (against Infect and Faeries) and the other times it didn't (Devotion and Control).
Electrolyze was alright the two times I saw it. I killed a Vendilion Clique with it in response to the trigger, which was decent value. The other time, I just shot my opponent for two EoT and drew a card. Which I guess isn't terrible but not really what I want to be doing with three mana. Sword of Fire and Ice was pretty solid and won me a game by allowing me to get in for an additional two points of damage but Pike would have done the same in that situation. So I'm seeing it as whether drawing cards is more relevant than First Strike (pushing through more damage and making blocking hell for my opponent) and it's actually pretty close. I'll play around with both of these a bit more and see how that goes but I think Electrolyze will end up getting cut.
I would like to say that It was pretty great having more counter magic than the control deck. I won every counter war we got into except for one over him Pathing a Delver on turn 5 and that was only because I was shy one blue source (I only drew one fetch that game).
Splashing B for Tribal Flames is pretty weak in my opinion. I don't think the deck really benefits from one mana discard and anything costing double black is uncastable (so no LilianaOTV). If I really wanted extra burn, Boros Charm is probably a better choice since it is instant, blanks Abrupt Decay and is on a casting cost that the deck already plays towards having. Charms in general seems a bit weaker than some of the other choices that the deck could run but Boros Charm is something I have considered trying out and most likely will in the near future.
Anyway, I was wondering if I could pick your brain a little?
Have you considered Heroes' Reunion in the sideboard? I don't know how much burn there is in your meta, but I'll be playing this primarily online where burn is very popular. So, I wondered if that might be worth a couple sideboard slots.
Do you think playing +1 Stomping Ground/Hallowed Fountain, -1 Steam Vents/Temple Garden is fine? If I'm running Heroes Reunion in the board I want to be able to cast it, and that combination does that easier.
edit: Actually, I think the part that is confusing me is the Sacred Foundry and Basic Mountain. I'd rather cut those for more duals. Something like this...
1 Forest
1 Island
4 Arid Mesa
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Steam Vents
2 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
Is Jeskai control a difficult matchup? I've always had trouble with them playing Delver decks, but this one seems to have more counter magic than I usually run and I'm curious how much that helps.
Thanks for the deck idea!
The problem with prioritizing Stomping Ground and Hallowed Fountain over Temple Garden and Steam Vents is that they don't activate Moorland Haunt. It may not come up very often but it is a thing to be aware of. The Mountain and the Sacred Foundry are there for a couple reasons. People caught on to me originally only running Forest and Island in my deck. So they would attack my Red and White sources with things like Ghost Quarter or Path on Noble. I put in the Mountain so I can fetch the color when I needed it. Sacred Foundry is borderline going to be a Plains (to get a white source for value when I need it from a Path or whatever). Though if the meta doesn't have a ton of Blood Moon, being able to instantly turn on Nacatl with a fetch is worth running. I'm not positive on that decision quite yet. I am going to try out running a basic Plains to see if that's relevant.
I generally haven't had much issue with the different UWx control decks. Not that it is a particularly easy match up but if you play to your outs and make as much use of them tapping out as you can, it shouldn't be too difficult. Being able to out-counter them is quite nice. We are more punishing on them than they are on us. So keeping pressure is usually good enough to get there.
Yeah, I did notice that Stomping Ground + Hallowed Fountain couldn't turn on Moorland Haunt, but I think I was still having trouble understanding the benefit of splitting the dual-land suite, so I figured I might as well just make it 50/50, by running two of each of the four. If you consider Steam Vents + Temple Garden to be just superior, which very well might be correct, then why not run something like this now that we (will) have access to all the fetchlands...
1 Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Moorland Haunt
3 Steam Vents
3 Temple Garden
Compared to your mana base this has effective access to:
W13 U14 R13 G14
While your's is:
W12 U12 R13 G12
Having access to more colors, especially the colors you need to cast your creatures, seems more important than some marginal additional protection to Blood Moon and multiple Path to Exiles perhaps.
I tested a lot of game 1's against Burn today. It's not nearly as bad as I thought and only gets better post-board. Having access to Lightning Helix is big but the main thing is having tons of ways to interact. Nacatl stone walling Goblin Guide is real nice. The main things I noticed for the match up are keeping pressure in play is important. The games I won I was getting in for 3-4 and finished off with bolts. They do a surprising amount of damage to themselves. Especially with Eidolon of the Great Revel. The games were usually very close but being able to buy turns with counter magic is very important. Also, if you are at a low life total (like, 7 or less) don't tap out end of turn. Other than that, tight play and winning the die roll are your best bet. Game 1 I would say is around 50/50. It can tilt toward one deck or the other really easy through the course of a game.
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
1 Grim Lavamancer
3 Snapcaster Mage
Spells: 25
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Serum Visions
1 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
4 Lightning Helix
4 Mana Leak
4 Remand
1 Electrolyze
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Moorland Haunt
4 Arid Mesa
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Steam Vents
2 Temple Garden
1 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Back to Nature
1 Counterflux
2 Path to Exile
2 Spellskite
1 Stony Silence
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Wear // Tear
I played against UG Eternal Command, Merfolk, Bloom Titan Combo, and Mono Black Infect.
Notes from the evening:
- If you have Delver and Nacatl in your opener, leading Nacatl seems to be the correct play. Especially if you have Noble in your opener as well. Fetch, Temple Garden, Nacatl into Fetch, Steam Vents, Noble, Delver, swing 4 is pretty brutal. That sequence came up 3 times last night and I initially tried running out Delver first but having to choose between Noble or Nacatl the following turn slowed the amount of available pressure. I ended up running out Noble after flipping Delver to Visions and cast the Visions. So things worked out, but in general, I think playing out Nacatl first represents more consistent pressure and also plays the illusion game of us being on Zoo, instead of a tempo deck.
- Grim Lavamancer was fantastic in the 3 games I saw it. Having uncounterable burn is great and since there is just the one, him and Snapcaster never stepped on each others toes.
- Electrolyze has been so-so for me. I tend to side it out fairly often and the times where I do cast it, it's usually just an EoT shock+draw. Which feels really bad. I think I'm going to go back to Arc Trail or I'll give Forked Bolt a try. Something along those lines.
- Sword of Fire and Ice has been decent. The three mana and sorcery speed on it has been pretty awkward but when it comes down to the end of a game, having it in play feels really good and instantly turns all the creatures into significant threats. Connecting with it isn't necessarily game winning but it's pretty close. I still think Pike is solid but with Lavamancer in the mix now, Sword is probably the right choice.
- Spell Snare never was relevant in the 2 games where I saw it. I'd still want it over Vapor Snag but I want to try something else over it. A friend recommended Qasali Pridemage as more Exalted as well as MB enchant/artifact hate (as well as more cat flavor for the deck). Which sounds decent but I don't know about cutting more instants/sorceries from the deck. Delver is reliant on blind flips pretty often and whiffing is pretty painful. I'd have to test to see if going to 24 spells is relevant but I have to imagine that it is. If anyone has any other recommendations for spells that may be more useful in this slot, I'd love to hear them.
Could always throw a path to exile in there