I am glad you guys are trying out MR. I've been testing it out myself. I sideboarded [[Death's Shadow]] just in case I play against burn. This is my current test build:
Dropped to 3 Kiln Fiend for testing purposes? or the fact that he is the most vulnerable and myth is harder to kill? I like 4 Emerge Unscathed w Taylor and Myth, But I like apostles for the artifact protection, too, that's relevant vs affinity and the other 75% of decks that run spellskite, which is why 3-4 sounds good. Like the land too. How'd manamorphose work out, that's a direction we could try, storm it out. And it's instant as well, I really need to pick up some. Gonna look for shattering spree and rakdos charms tonight, dunno if i have them laying around, if not I'll look around town, tomorrow.
States TCG Modern 6 rnds
1. Amulet Bloom; turn 3 kiln fiend +3 spells & TBR FOR 26 DMG, game 2 brought in 2 ancient grudge and he got chalice for 1 off, slowed me down, eventually he didn't pay for summoners pact a 2nd time and someone else called him on it, he was going to combat and such, I reminded him post draw last time. 2-0
2. Our hard counter, LIVING END; turn 3 cascade into LE got 2 dudes he cycled back in, killed me. Game 2 brought in 3 Thoughtseize and got his cascade which held him back a turn or 2 but I couldn't finish him off before it went off again. 0-2
3. Delver; close games all around lost game 1 to young peezy tokens. Game 2 brought in ancient grudges and pyroclasms and 2 Young Ps of my own, killed her w pyroclasm w 2 Taylor's out with pact of negation and another spell to get lethal. G3 another back and forth dropped 1 grudge for a thoughtseize, drew my 1 grudge before a skite, used got q dude back out, but her peezy had emassed tokens to go wide. 1-2
4. Fish, he knew the deck so he slowed down and played tempo and saved for an alpha strike. G2, Brought in grudges and pyroclasm he got out waves and went wide. 0-2
5. Temur goodstuff? Turn 3 kiln fiend tainted strike + TBR. G2 BOARD in AG + 3 LB, turn 4/5 win with 7/7 deaths shadow + TBR. 2-0
6. GR Tron; turn 3 kill of some sort. Bring in grudges, turn 4/5 kill. 2-0
3-3 17th place
2 Blood Crypt was NEEDED I was running 1 before but changed land base a bit to fit in new mana confluence added 2nd crypt and vents, dropping stomping grounds, mountain & a foothills to fit them in. Spreading Seas and Ghost Quarter targeted crypts, usually, so being able to fix that with a fetch after is nice. I felt like I was land lite a few games but others lands was about right, slightly more in like 1 maybe nothing huge. Sideboard: adding thoughtseize was, of course, a good move. Ancient Grudge or any artifact destruction at 2 cmc is NEEDED vs Chalice of the void which slowed me down so much R1G2. Pyroclasm was good vs delver. I picked up rakdos charms and shattering sprees at the shop and some manamorphose as well, i could see this helping a ton, just kinda of storm off, which is the plan most times.
It felt amazing when it went off t3, great turn 4/5 but seemed lacking when pulled too little free spells, got a few too many threats or just a little off on lands. Might run burn next weekend gonna test it and shotty this week and see how I feel.
I could drop the sb tainted for more space, like lantern and others have already figured out, could drop 1 young peezy for another slot and swap grudges for Rakdos Charms & get in 2 Shattering SPrees
Eh, first thoughts on Erayo are when we hit our 4th spell we should be going off and winning. Unless you come up with a nonstop cantrip build, which could work! then I'd avoid it. But it's defensive and we are a 100% offensive deck. Might work in a cantrip build in the sideboard but I wouldn't do it. If it's a pet card, try it out and report back. Add some Serum Visions and Manamorphose maybe? Think storm meets infect (which is kinda what we are).
I played shotgun at FNM last night, casual store, only 7 people. Went 2-1 got 2nd:
Beat boggles 2-0, she didn't have much interaction AND her deck was like "here's lands!" turn 3 kill then turn 4 kill.
Beat budget jeskai 2-0. turn 4 then turn 4/5, I believe.
Lost to weird BW Smallpox/white knight 1-2, turn 5/6 (had to recover from a smallpox)20+ dmg with kiln fiend, it stuck and he saw my hand, i played with it revealed, he realized i could cast ALL of my hand (5 cards, 3 lands) and I said, "yep, kill me this turn or have a way to stop it, which will be hard with my Pact of Negation."
For game 2 I dropped Ground Rift & Gut Shot for 2 Rakdos Charms because I saw his hoard of spirit's few rounds ago, let an Æther Vial stay out with charm in hand and he got 3 creatures off of it til i realized i made a HUGE misplay (first time running with rakdos Charms). He also boarded in Runed Halo and named Monastery Swiftspear which I then proceeded to pull 2 off the top of my deck...
Then dropped singles of lots of cards for game 3 brought in 4 Young Pyromancer, 3 Lightning Bolt and uh... Shattering Spree? Had to go down from 1 land at 7 cards because i wanted at least 2 for smallpox, got no lands at 6 then 1 at 5... Yeah, didn't get much better.
I really enjoyed his deck and he hadn't played much modern, normally just EDH, so I was glad to see new modern players. I also bought a MM2 pack and cracked a Bitterblossom so that was cool. A good sign of how GP Las Vegas will be!
You could call this list a more "all-in" version of the shotgun combo. I have focused more on making sure the damage gets through than in the other lists, with 4 Apostle's Blessing, 4 Slaughter Pact, and 4 Gut Shot (which on turns 2 and 3 can still eliminate a good portion of the blockers your opponent can have out, and 4 Ground Rift.
It also has a much more aggressive mana base. I subbed out 2 lands for 2 Simian Spirit Guide, which enables the possibility of a turn 1 Kiln Fiend, drastically increasing your turn 2 win percentages. I also have 13 fetches and 3 shocks, which thins the deck considerably (Every fetch = 1 extra land removed from the library = 2 less useless topdecks = higher chance of drawing a card you actually want to use )
What did you play against khaosknight? Just wondering with the all out combo version. Love the pacts BTW! Just looks old school to me, I started running shotgun with Taylor Swiftspear so I don't have experience with her not in the deck.
You could call this list a more "all-in" version of the shotgun combo. I have focused more on making sure the damage gets through than in the other lists, with 4 Apostle's Blessing, 4 Slaughter Pact, and 4 Gut Shot (which on turns 2 and 3 can still eliminate a good portion of the blockers your opponent can have out, and 4 Ground Rift.
It also has a much more aggressive mana base. I subbed out 2 lands for 2 Simian Spirit Guide, which enables the possibility of a turn 1 Kiln Fiend, drastically increasing your turn 2 win percentages. I also have 13 fetches and 3 shocks, which thins the deck considerably (Every fetch = 1 extra land removed from the library = 2 less useless topdecks = higher chance of drawing a card you actually want to use )
Ran my version of Shotgun at 18 man FNM tourney with cut to top 8 and an invite to a local championship that LGSs chip cash in for, dunno if that's a thing in other places but thought it was cool and wanted to mention it. I got WRECKED. Lost 0-2 to Abzan, then 1-2 to Affinity, got the bye... then lost to a brand new player with a combination of Heroes vs Monsters deck. I kinda threw the match by playing my kiln fiend (only threat) without protection after he said, "nah i better save it for later." Figured if he wins it'll help him keep playing. Never drew into another threat even used the old Tainted Strike a dude to save 4/5 damage.
I'm chalking it up to luck with the first match but I haven't really played against Abzan with Elemental Shotgun yet so might have been that. Affinity no blocks'd something and I Tainted Strike & TBR'd him, he was surprised. Ground Rift had a part in that win, I was wondering if I should remove it but I like the one of to maybe go off with NmE or to clear blockers or as an easy card to drop, like Gut Shot (which turn 0 took out a Noble Hierarch vs Abzan).
What did you play against khaosknight? Just wondering with the all out combo version. Love the pacts BTW! Just looks old school to me, I started running shotgun with Taylor Swiftspear so I don't have experience with her not in the deck.
I don't have my write-ups for how they played their decks, but I remember it was Infect Match 1, Bloom Match 2, Burn Match 3 (which I do remember being worried about, but he wasn't ready for my turn 3 kill g1 and g2 he tapped out for an eidolon and I got a nut draw for a t2 kill (although the kill brought me to like 1 life).
Match 4 was a hard 2-1 against Twin, which i remember. Game 1 I resolved a nivmagus elemental turn 1, and turn 2 I ate 4 Ground Rift (plus the 3 spells I had cast beforehand) to get Nivmagus swinging for 15/16, which led to a pretty quick close. Game 2 he didn't let me resolve a single threat and combo'd on turn 4. Game 3 he got rid of my turn 2 Kiln Fiend with a bolt, but I got there in the end with a Nivmagus.
Overall I still feel like this archetype relies too much on suprise to be competitive. If we got another creature printed like Kiln Fiend or nivmagus elemental then I think it could end up being a decent threat, but I don't think swiftspear or death's shadow are those cards. Shadow is great for improving our late-game, but 9 in 10 times I've played with it, by the time I can bring it in they have an answer in hand, or he just doesn't do that much work.
As for swiftspear, I dunno, prowess seems like a good fit, but he's clearly worse than the other 2 creatures, and I feel like he slows the deck down because every time I draw him I'd rather just have a kiln fiend or nivmagus, and every time I topdeck him I'd almost always rather have a noncreature pump spell. We aggressively mulligan in this deck, but that's okay. Sometimes I end up mulliganing down to 4 or 5 cards and still getting the turn 3 or 4 win. I feel like swiftspear just encourages keeping hands that aren't explosive enough. This deck has zero longevity, nearly every other list is going to have answers for us by turn 4 or 5, whether that's in the form of a *****-ton of blockers or a few well-timed counters/bolts/paths/etc. We're like infect's "less consistent but way more explosive when we get a good draw" cousin. As such, we don't want creatures that can only ever win through multiple attack phases. Every time I've done well at a tourny or fnm with this deck, it's been because I have creatures that can swing for a kill in 1 turn. Death's Shadow can do that in ideal conditions, but I never end up bringing him out in those conditions. Swiftspear's quickest kill requires a christmas hand, and even a turn 3 swiftspear kill is pretty complex to pull off. A turn 3 kiln fiend just requires 1 doubler, and 2 other noncreature casts.
The swiftspear + death's shadow plan seems to give the deck some more longevity, at the cost of some of it's early explosiveness, and I think that is a mistake. There are hundreds of decks out there with way better longevity that can't handle a turn 3 kiln fiend backed by pacts and blessings. That's the archetype's strength, same as Infect. If we don't end the game before turn 4, there's a fairly high chance we won't win it. Why would we dilute the deck with tempo cards when we need explosive cards?
I've never played or Goldfished this deck, but I used to play a budget Nivix Blitz deck back in RTR standard and loved it. Looking over this list it seems like a really interesting build with the Nivmagus being able to eat all the Phyrexian mana spells when your life total is low and you don't have a Death's Shadow available.
Does this deck get anything from Day's Undoing or do you typically want to hold cards for an alpha strike? It seems like out of any Modern deck, the best chance to have possibly dumped your entire hand for value by turn 3 is here.
I actually started writing a primer for a Blue-Red version of this deck before I stumbled onto this thread.
This is a mostly budget version that clocks in around $150, and it's pretty fun to play.
I've piloted my version into two Modern events so far and I did reasonably well, at least with the first event. Went 2-1 last Friday and 1-2 today. Here's my list.
Last Friday, I played Affinity, Griselbrand Shoal, and Jund in that order. I annihilated Affinity thanks to the guy having terrible luck with mulligans, and I was able to outrace Griselbrand Shoal 2/3 of our games. The main problem is Jund, thanks to their abundant removal, discard, and cards like Tarmogoyf and Liliana of the Veil. I either sacrificed, discarded or lost Kiln Fiend and Nivmagus Elemental games two and three, although I was able to outrace them on game one.
Tonight was unfortunate in that I almost beat out monoblue Tron except they got Karn, Liberated out game three. Game one I hit em with a turn two kill (perfect god hand, good grief), and game two I mulliganed down to 5, hence losing out to their Platinum Angel. Game three, I almost sealed the deal with a Lightning Bolt but they countered it at the last moment. Match two was a lot better; I played against a guy using a Bitterblossom based token deck. He didn't realize until after he played Bitterblossom that I was playing Elemental Combo, and he burned himself to death after I hit him for 18 over two turns. Game two was the same; he even still played Bitterblossom, which really surprised me. Match three was Affinity's revenge though. In some cruel twist of fate I ended up playing the shop owner and he wiped me out first game with a pumped up Inkmoth Nexus and then game two with a pumped up Etched Champion.
What I've noticed (and this is probably blatantly obvious but I'll say it anyways) is that we don't seem to have any answers to evasive creatures besides praying we get a Lightning Bolt, and that we really have no resistance to removal or discard. Blue helps with some cheap counterspells though. Having played the primer's Black-Red version and the original list created by the SCG Blue Team, though, blue-red seems to be a lot more stable than red-black. Sure we get to have Tainted Strike, Death's Shadow, and even Inquisition of Kozilek, but like one of the above posters said, we don't have a long-term game plan. In the games I've played this in addition to the aforementioned events, more than 75 percent of the time, if the game dragged on past turn 4 or 5, I fizzled out. That being said, I've been able to last longer and get more reliable output from the deck by running blue over black, thanks to the addition of Serum Visions and Artful Dodge. Makes me wonder if we should try siding in cards like Fling or Rite of Consumption (if we happen to run black) to get some emergency direct damage in.
I don't know, this is just my two cents and experiences so far with the archetype. What are everyone's thoughts?
Current Modern Decks BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends." BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved." RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros." BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?" C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
I've never played or Goldfished this deck, but I used to play a budget Nivix Blitz deck back in RTR standard and loved it. Looking over this list it seems like a really interesting build with the Nivmagus being able to eat all the Phyrexian mana spells when your life total is low and you don't have a Death's Shadow available.
Does this deck get anything from Day's Undoing or do you typically want to hold cards for an alpha strike? It seems like out of any Modern deck, the best chance to have possibly dumped your entire hand for value by turn 3 is here.
I personally would not recommend Day's Undoing. Yes, it refills our hand, but it also refills our opponent's and possibly nets them more cards/better ones than those they have already. Maybe in combination with Gitaxian Probe I can see it happening, but honestly, your thought regarding the alpha strike nature of the deck is what I agree with more. I can't list the games I've won or scraped through because I waited for the opportunity to go all-out; in regards to Kiln Fiend, being able to jack up more spells at once is important. Also, a cmc of three is not what we want with this deck...the highest cmc in my build is 2 and that's cause of Kiln Fiend. Literally everything else is either a free spell (Phyrexian), or at a cmc of one.
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Current Modern Decks BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends." BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved." RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros." BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?" C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
I'm not sure this card is what you need, but Stubborn Denial works well with Fiend on the board or a pumped elemental. That said, it dilutes this decks strategy some. Something I've been pondering if I ever can get the cards for this deck together.
Stubborn Denial is a cheap sideboard option for counters if you can't buy Pact of Negation and goes so well with combos, it's so nice to have a protection and a counter in your hand when going off if you haven't seen their hand, they get salty. Or even just to help you go off if they don't do it and you need 2 more spells, protection then in response counter your protection spell.
Stubborn Denial is a cheap sideboard option for counters if you can't buy Pact of Negation and goes so well with combos, it's so nice to have a protection and a counter in your hand when going off if you haven't seen their hand, they get salty. Or even just to help you go off if they don't do it and you need 2 more spells, protection then in response counter your protection spell.
If I had more money, I'd definitely go for the Slaughter Pacts, although in my version, they're more of a do or die type deal thanks to not running black. Distortion Strike I initially had less preference for because Rebound means I can't control the timing over Artful Dodge, but now I'm having one of those ooooooooh moments where it makes perfect sense; I want to be going off soon as possible, and every little bit helps, especially since the Rebound is free.
As for Temur Battle Rage, I like the card a lot and want to make it work, but with my version, it's not uncommon for me to only have two mana, tops, before I go off/have to go off with the combo. That's why I prefer Assault Strobe at the moment because it only costs one mana and let's me squeeze in an extra Storm trigger for Ground Rift.
Also, Stubborn Denial is REALLY good. My Spell Pierces are getting replaced for sure. Like, why did I not see this before. D:
Finally, what do you guys think about using Fling or Rite of Consumption? They're definitely not maindeck material, but perhaps in the sideboard for matchups like Affinity, Merfolk, or in response to removal or sac effects? I realize it means we have to lose pumping up our guys further but it could be a good way to end a game also in conjunction with a bolt or two, as well as getting through pesky blockers if we don't have one of our unblockable spells and can't topdeck em.
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Current Modern Decks BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends." BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved." RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros." BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?" C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
Hey everyone, I decided to try making my own version of the Shotgun variation for a FNM I'm going to tomorrow, and I wanted to know what you guys all thought of it.
Thoughts? The local store only has one Simian Spirit Guide at the moment, otherwise I'd be running two. Also want opinions on the sideboard...I can't decide on a card to fill Emerge Unscathed's slot. If anyone has input for the mainboard too, I'd be interested in hearing what you all have to say. I'm currently in Singapore for the summer break, so I'm up against a lot of people using archetypes like Affinity, Tron, Splinter Twin, Jund, etc.
The main reason I decided to try out the Shotgun variation is that I wanted to make use of Tainted Strike and Slaughter Pact. I managed to get a good deal on 3 copies of Pact from my local shop, so I'm happy to say that I'll be able to make a deck with em. I'm a little worried about cutting my cantrips tho, cause I'm going from 4 Gitaxian Probe and 4 Serum Visions to just 2 Gitaxian Probe. I'm hoping the splash of black ought to even out my hands a bit more, but again, I'm not a hundred percent sure. :/
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Current Modern Decks BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends." BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved." RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros." BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?" C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
Hey all, it's me again. Just thought I'd report my FNM performance from last night.
I actually forgot to put in the Tainted Strikes and I only had access to one Simian Spirit Guide, but I still went 2-1, after almost winning my first match but losing last second to an infinite combo because I wasn't familiar with how the Persist trigger operates on the stack.
First match was against a guy who played a very weird infinite combo deck, relying on interactions between Melira, Sylvok Outcast, Cartel Aristocrat, and either Kitchen Finks (for infinite lifegain), or Murderous Redcap (for infinite damage). I outran him first game, conceded second game, and would have won the third game with an unblockable, pumped up Kiln Fiend if I had known how to approach the Persist trigger with a Lightning Bolt. That being said, I know now, so when I go up against this guy again, he's a goner (He shows up regularly to the store I frequent).
Second match was against Merfolk and it was a cakewalk. The guy actually helped me out both games by giving me Spreading Seas on my Blood Crypt and Mountain when I had Distortion Strike in my hand. First game was ended by a 12/4, doublestriking Kiln Fiend on turn 2. Simian Spirit Guide is a miracle worker. Not many people can answer a turn one Kiln Fiend. Second game dragged on but he drew a crappy hand, cause he didn't have many lords or disruption against me, so I eventually pumped up another Kiln Fiend and swung once I got another Distortion Strike.
Third match was against my buddy's Monogreen Devotion and it was somewhat unusual in that the first game, he got out Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, killing off my Kiln Fiend, but I still managed to use Distortion Strike alongside my Nivmagus Elemental to take home the win. Second game was another first turn Kiln Fiend and we know by now how that ends.
Slaughter Pact is a lifesaver in this deck. It works best with Nivmagus Elemental but can clear the way for Kiln Fiend in a pinch. Also, I didn't really regret not adding in Tainted Strike except for my first match, which was against that stupid infinite lifegain deck.
Will keep you all updated on how I do with various builds!
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Current Modern Decks BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends." BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved." RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros." BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?" C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
Need 4 Probes. Hope you enjoyed the changes, I see we both agreed on the why you were running what you were. We also sort of agree on the newer build. Glad you loved Slaughter Pact, it's so nice to go off with. "I'll Pact your dude" "Well then I'll Path your dude" "Okay, in response I'll give him Pro White, after the Path fizzles I'll eat the pact since it can't block my dude, oh and Assault Strobe and Ground Rift eat everything then beat face and gg?"
First deck was Podless Pod, they go for that cheesy infinite life combo as plan B. It can be tricky and is very annoying. Also, satisfying when you can beat them early and just smirk at their expensive deck. Or you just kill Melira as well. If new to FNM my #1 suggestion is to just slow it down, You're new, ask questions and read their cards! Actually any time you're not sure what stuff does just ask.
3x Kiln Fiend
3x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Nivmagus Elemental
Enchantment (3)
3x Myth Realized
Instant (21)
4x Apostle's Blessing
2x Emerge Unscathed
3x Gut Shot
3x Lightning Bolt
4x Mutagenic Growth
3x Tainted Strike
2x Temur Battle Rage
4x Distortion Strike
2x Gitaxian Probe
3x Ground Rift
Land (17)
3x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
3x City of Brass
1x Mountain
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Steam Vents
1x Stomping Ground
3x Wooded Foothills
3x Death's Shadow
2x Dragon's Claw
3x Pyroclasm
3x Rest in Peace
2x Shattering Spree
2x Torpor Orb
Link to deck @ TappedOut.net
Modern
C Colorless Eldrazi Stompy C
WUGC Bant Eldrazi CGUW
WBG Doran Formation GBW
Legacy
C Eldrazi Stompy C
Multiplayer Commander
GR Omnath, Locus of Rage RG
WU Brago, King Eternal UW
BG Slimefoot, the Stowaway GB
Tiffy.dec, Built with Decked Builder
http://decks.deckedbuilder.com/d/55955
Cube
Terricube
Modern
8Rack
Burn
Legacy
Oops, All Spells!
Pox
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Mountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Steam Vents
3 Wooded Foothills
2 City of Brass
2 Mana Confluence
Creatures 14
2 Death's Shadow
4 Kiln Fiend
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Nivmagus Elemental
4 Apostle's Blessing
1 Gut Shot
2 Emerge Unscathed
4 Mutagenic Growth
2 Pact of Negation
3 Slaughter Pact
3 Tainted Strike
2 Temur Battle Rage
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Ground Rift
3 Distortion Strike
3 Thoughtseize
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Tainted Strike
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Pyroclasm
2 Ancient Grudge
States TCG Modern 6 rnds
1. Amulet Bloom; turn 3 kiln fiend +3 spells & TBR FOR 26 DMG, game 2 brought in 2 ancient grudge and he got chalice for 1 off, slowed me down, eventually he didn't pay for summoners pact a 2nd time and someone else called him on it, he was going to combat and such, I reminded him post draw last time. 2-0
2. Our hard counter, LIVING END; turn 3 cascade into LE got 2 dudes he cycled back in, killed me. Game 2 brought in 3 Thoughtseize and got his cascade which held him back a turn or 2 but I couldn't finish him off before it went off again. 0-2
3. Delver; close games all around lost game 1 to young peezy tokens. Game 2 brought in ancient grudges and pyroclasms and 2 Young Ps of my own, killed her w pyroclasm w 2 Taylor's out with pact of negation and another spell to get lethal. G3 another back and forth dropped 1 grudge for a thoughtseize, drew my 1 grudge before a skite, used got q dude back out, but her peezy had emassed tokens to go wide. 1-2
4. Fish, he knew the deck so he slowed down and played tempo and saved for an alpha strike. G2, Brought in grudges and pyroclasm he got out waves and went wide. 0-2
5. Temur goodstuff? Turn 3 kiln fiend tainted strike + TBR. G2 BOARD in AG + 3 LB, turn 4/5 win with 7/7 deaths shadow + TBR. 2-0
6. GR Tron; turn 3 kill of some sort. Bring in grudges, turn 4/5 kill. 2-0
3-3 17th place
2 Blood Crypt was NEEDED I was running 1 before but changed land base a bit to fit in new mana confluence added 2nd crypt and vents, dropping stomping grounds, mountain & a foothills to fit them in. Spreading Seas and Ghost Quarter targeted crypts, usually, so being able to fix that with a fetch after is nice. I felt like I was land lite a few games but others lands was about right, slightly more in like 1 maybe nothing huge. Sideboard: adding thoughtseize was, of course, a good move. Ancient Grudge or any artifact destruction at 2 cmc is NEEDED vs Chalice of the void which slowed me down so much R1G2. Pyroclasm was good vs delver. I picked up rakdos charms and shattering sprees at the shop and some manamorphose as well, i could see this helping a ton, just kinda of storm off, which is the plan most times.
It felt amazing when it went off t3, great turn 4/5 but seemed lacking when pulled too little free spells, got a few too many threats or just a little off on lands. Might run burn next weekend gonna test it and shotty this week and see how I feel.
I could drop the sb tainted for more space, like lantern and others have already figured out, could drop 1 young peezy for another slot and swap grudges for Rakdos Charms & get in 2 Shattering SPrees
Cube
Terricube
Modern
8Rack
Burn
Legacy
Oops, All Spells!
Pox
Loving it really.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I played shotgun at FNM last night, casual store, only 7 people. Went 2-1 got 2nd:
Beat boggles 2-0, she didn't have much interaction AND her deck was like "here's lands!" turn 3 kill then turn 4 kill.
Beat budget jeskai 2-0. turn 4 then turn 4/5, I believe.
Lost to weird BW Smallpox/white knight 1-2, turn 5/6 (had to recover from a smallpox)20+ dmg with kiln fiend, it stuck and he saw my hand, i played with it revealed, he realized i could cast ALL of my hand (5 cards, 3 lands) and I said, "yep, kill me this turn or have a way to stop it, which will be hard with my Pact of Negation."
For game 2 I dropped Ground Rift & Gut Shot for 2 Rakdos Charms because I saw his hoard of spirit's few rounds ago, let an Æther Vial stay out with charm in hand and he got 3 creatures off of it til i realized i made a HUGE misplay (first time running with rakdos Charms). He also boarded in Runed Halo and named Monastery Swiftspear which I then proceeded to pull 2 off the top of my deck...
Then dropped singles of lots of cards for game 3 brought in 4 Young Pyromancer, 3 Lightning Bolt and uh... Shattering Spree? Had to go down from 1 land at 7 cards because i wanted at least 2 for smallpox, got no lands at 6 then 1 at 5... Yeah, didn't get much better.
I really enjoyed his deck and he hadn't played much modern, normally just EDH, so I was glad to see new modern players. I also bought a MM2 pack and cracked a Bitterblossom so that was cool. A good sign of how GP Las Vegas will be!
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4 Nivmagus Elemental
2 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Elemental harbinger
3 Assault Strobe
4 Ground Rift
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Apostles Blessing
4 Gut Shot
2 Mutagenic Growth
4 Pact of Negation
4 Slaughter Pact
4 Tainted Strike
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Arid Mesa
You could call this list a more "all-in" version of the shotgun combo. I have focused more on making sure the damage gets through than in the other lists, with 4 Apostle's Blessing, 4 Slaughter Pact, and 4 Gut Shot (which on turns 2 and 3 can still eliminate a good portion of the blockers your opponent can have out, and 4 Ground Rift.
It also has a much more aggressive mana base. I subbed out 2 lands for 2 Simian Spirit Guide, which enables the possibility of a turn 1 Kiln Fiend, drastically increasing your turn 2 win percentages. I also have 13 fetches and 3 shocks, which thins the deck considerably (Every fetch = 1 extra land removed from the library = 2 less useless topdecks = higher chance of drawing a card you actually want to use )
Here's a link to the deck on tappedout for easy playtesting: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/13-05-15-elemental-combo/
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes
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old school!
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Mountain
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Steam Vents
3 Wooded Foothills
1 City of Brass
2 Mana Confluence
Creatures 14
2 Death's Shadow
4 Kiln Fiend
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Nivmagus Elemental
4 Apostle's Blessing
1 Gut Shot
2 Emerge Unscathed
4 Mutagenic Growth
2 Pact of Negation
3 Slaughter Pact
3 Tainted Strike
2 Temur Battle Rage
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Ground Rift
3 Distortion Strike
3 Thoughtseize
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Young Pyromancer
3 Shattering Spree
2 Rakdos Charm
Ran my version of Shotgun at 18 man FNM tourney with cut to top 8 and an invite to a local championship that LGSs chip cash in for, dunno if that's a thing in other places but thought it was cool and wanted to mention it. I got WRECKED. Lost 0-2 to Abzan, then 1-2 to Affinity, got the bye... then lost to a brand new player with a combination of Heroes vs Monsters deck. I kinda threw the match by playing my kiln fiend (only threat) without protection after he said, "nah i better save it for later." Figured if he wins it'll help him keep playing. Never drew into another threat even used the old Tainted Strike a dude to save 4/5 damage.
I'm chalking it up to luck with the first match but I haven't really played against Abzan with Elemental Shotgun yet so might have been that. Affinity no blocks'd something and I Tainted Strike & TBR'd him, he was surprised. Ground Rift had a part in that win, I was wondering if I should remove it but I like the one of to maybe go off with NmE or to clear blockers or as an easy card to drop, like Gut Shot (which turn 0 took out a Noble Hierarch vs Abzan).
It was a nice change of pace after GP Vegas.
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I don't have my write-ups for how they played their decks, but I remember it was Infect Match 1, Bloom Match 2, Burn Match 3 (which I do remember being worried about, but he wasn't ready for my turn 3 kill g1 and g2 he tapped out for an eidolon and I got a nut draw for a t2 kill (although the kill brought me to like 1 life).
Match 4 was a hard 2-1 against Twin, which i remember. Game 1 I resolved a nivmagus elemental turn 1, and turn 2 I ate 4 Ground Rift (plus the 3 spells I had cast beforehand) to get Nivmagus swinging for 15/16, which led to a pretty quick close. Game 2 he didn't let me resolve a single threat and combo'd on turn 4. Game 3 he got rid of my turn 2 Kiln Fiend with a bolt, but I got there in the end with a Nivmagus.
Overall I still feel like this archetype relies too much on suprise to be competitive. If we got another creature printed like Kiln Fiend or nivmagus elemental then I think it could end up being a decent threat, but I don't think swiftspear or death's shadow are those cards. Shadow is great for improving our late-game, but 9 in 10 times I've played with it, by the time I can bring it in they have an answer in hand, or he just doesn't do that much work.
As for swiftspear, I dunno, prowess seems like a good fit, but he's clearly worse than the other 2 creatures, and I feel like he slows the deck down because every time I draw him I'd rather just have a kiln fiend or nivmagus, and every time I topdeck him I'd almost always rather have a noncreature pump spell. We aggressively mulligan in this deck, but that's okay. Sometimes I end up mulliganing down to 4 or 5 cards and still getting the turn 3 or 4 win. I feel like swiftspear just encourages keeping hands that aren't explosive enough. This deck has zero longevity, nearly every other list is going to have answers for us by turn 4 or 5, whether that's in the form of a *****-ton of blockers or a few well-timed counters/bolts/paths/etc. We're like infect's "less consistent but way more explosive when we get a good draw" cousin. As such, we don't want creatures that can only ever win through multiple attack phases. Every time I've done well at a tourny or fnm with this deck, it's been because I have creatures that can swing for a kill in 1 turn. Death's Shadow can do that in ideal conditions, but I never end up bringing him out in those conditions. Swiftspear's quickest kill requires a christmas hand, and even a turn 3 swiftspear kill is pretty complex to pull off. A turn 3 kiln fiend just requires 1 doubler, and 2 other noncreature casts.
The swiftspear + death's shadow plan seems to give the deck some more longevity, at the cost of some of it's early explosiveness, and I think that is a mistake. There are hundreds of decks out there with way better longevity that can't handle a turn 3 kiln fiend backed by pacts and blessings. That's the archetype's strength, same as Infect. If we don't end the game before turn 4, there's a fairly high chance we won't win it. Why would we dilute the deck with tempo cards when we need explosive cards?
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes
Heve anyone tried 1 or 2 Phyrexian Unlife in main deck?
Does this deck get anything from Day's Undoing or do you typically want to hold cards for an alpha strike? It seems like out of any Modern deck, the best chance to have possibly dumped your entire hand for value by turn 3 is here.
I actually started writing a primer for a Blue-Red version of this deck before I stumbled onto this thread.
This is a mostly budget version that clocks in around $150, and it's pretty fun to play.
I've piloted my version into two Modern events so far and I did reasonably well, at least with the first event. Went 2-1 last Friday and 1-2 today. Here's my list.
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
2 Island
5 Mountain
Creatures (10)
4 Nivmagus Elemental
4 Kiln Fiend
2 Flamekin Harbinger
2 Artful Dodge
2 Gut Shot
4 Assault Strobe
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Ground Rift
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Apostle's Blessing
3 Dismember
3 Rending Volley
2 Pyroclasm
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Spell Pierce
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Dragon's Claw
Last Friday, I played Affinity, Griselbrand Shoal, and Jund in that order. I annihilated Affinity thanks to the guy having terrible luck with mulligans, and I was able to outrace Griselbrand Shoal 2/3 of our games. The main problem is Jund, thanks to their abundant removal, discard, and cards like Tarmogoyf and Liliana of the Veil. I either sacrificed, discarded or lost Kiln Fiend and Nivmagus Elemental games two and three, although I was able to outrace them on game one.
Tonight was unfortunate in that I almost beat out monoblue Tron except they got Karn, Liberated out game three. Game one I hit em with a turn two kill (perfect god hand, good grief), and game two I mulliganed down to 5, hence losing out to their Platinum Angel. Game three, I almost sealed the deal with a Lightning Bolt but they countered it at the last moment. Match two was a lot better; I played against a guy using a Bitterblossom based token deck. He didn't realize until after he played Bitterblossom that I was playing Elemental Combo, and he burned himself to death after I hit him for 18 over two turns. Game two was the same; he even still played Bitterblossom, which really surprised me. Match three was Affinity's revenge though. In some cruel twist of fate I ended up playing the shop owner and he wiped me out first game with a pumped up Inkmoth Nexus and then game two with a pumped up Etched Champion.
What I've noticed (and this is probably blatantly obvious but I'll say it anyways) is that we don't seem to have any answers to evasive creatures besides praying we get a Lightning Bolt, and that we really have no resistance to removal or discard. Blue helps with some cheap counterspells though. Having played the primer's Black-Red version and the original list created by the SCG Blue Team, though, blue-red seems to be a lot more stable than red-black. Sure we get to have Tainted Strike, Death's Shadow, and even Inquisition of Kozilek, but like one of the above posters said, we don't have a long-term game plan. In the games I've played this in addition to the aforementioned events, more than 75 percent of the time, if the game dragged on past turn 4 or 5, I fizzled out. That being said, I've been able to last longer and get more reliable output from the deck by running blue over black, thanks to the addition of Serum Visions and Artful Dodge. Makes me wonder if we should try siding in cards like Fling or Rite of Consumption (if we happen to run black) to get some emergency direct damage in.
I don't know, this is just my two cents and experiences so far with the archetype. What are everyone's thoughts?
BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends."
BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved."
RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros."
BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?"
C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
I personally would not recommend Day's Undoing. Yes, it refills our hand, but it also refills our opponent's and possibly nets them more cards/better ones than those they have already. Maybe in combination with Gitaxian Probe I can see it happening, but honestly, your thought regarding the alpha strike nature of the deck is what I agree with more. I can't list the games I've won or scraped through because I waited for the opportunity to go all-out; in regards to Kiln Fiend, being able to jack up more spells at once is important. Also, a cmc of three is not what we want with this deck...the highest cmc in my build is 2 and that's cause of Kiln Fiend. Literally everything else is either a free spell (Phyrexian), or at a cmc of one.
BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends."
BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved."
RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros."
BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?"
C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
Stubborn Denial is a cheap sideboard option for counters if you can't buy Pact of Negation and goes so well with combos, it's so nice to have a protection and a counter in your hand when going off if you haven't seen their hand, they get salty. Or even just to help you go off if they don't do it and you need 2 more spells, protection then in response counter your protection spell.
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If I had more money, I'd definitely go for the Slaughter Pacts, although in my version, they're more of a do or die type deal thanks to not running black. Distortion Strike I initially had less preference for because Rebound means I can't control the timing over Artful Dodge, but now I'm having one of those ooooooooh moments where it makes perfect sense; I want to be going off soon as possible, and every little bit helps, especially since the Rebound is free.
As for Temur Battle Rage, I like the card a lot and want to make it work, but with my version, it's not uncommon for me to only have two mana, tops, before I go off/have to go off with the combo. That's why I prefer Assault Strobe at the moment because it only costs one mana and let's me squeeze in an extra Storm trigger for Ground Rift.
Also, Stubborn Denial is REALLY good. My Spell Pierces are getting replaced for sure. Like, why did I not see this before. D:
Finally, what do you guys think about using Fling or Rite of Consumption? They're definitely not maindeck material, but perhaps in the sideboard for matchups like Affinity, Merfolk, or in response to removal or sac effects? I realize it means we have to lose pumping up our guys further but it could be a good way to end a game also in conjunction with a bolt or two, as well as getting through pesky blockers if we don't have one of our unblockable spells and can't topdeck em.
BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends."
BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved."
RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros."
BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?"
C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 City of Brass
3 Steam Vents
3 Blood Crypt
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Mountain
Creatures (11)
4 Nivmagus Elemental
4 Kiln Fiend
2 Flamekin Harbinger
1 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Apostle's Blessing
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Tainted Strike
3 Slaughter Pact
3 Distortion Strike
3 Ground Rift
2 Emerged Unscathed
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Gut Shot
2 Temur Battle Rage
3 Dismember
3 Rending Volley
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Pyroclasm
2 Stubborn Denial
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Emerge Unscathed
Thoughts? The local store only has one Simian Spirit Guide at the moment, otherwise I'd be running two. Also want opinions on the sideboard...I can't decide on a card to fill Emerge Unscathed's slot. If anyone has input for the mainboard too, I'd be interested in hearing what you all have to say. I'm currently in Singapore for the summer break, so I'm up against a lot of people using archetypes like Affinity, Tron, Splinter Twin, Jund, etc.
The main reason I decided to try out the Shotgun variation is that I wanted to make use of Tainted Strike and Slaughter Pact. I managed to get a good deal on 3 copies of Pact from my local shop, so I'm happy to say that I'll be able to make a deck with em. I'm a little worried about cutting my cantrips tho, cause I'm going from 4 Gitaxian Probe and 4 Serum Visions to just 2 Gitaxian Probe. I'm hoping the splash of black ought to even out my hands a bit more, but again, I'm not a hundred percent sure. :/
BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends."
BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved."
RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros."
BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?"
C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
I actually forgot to put in the Tainted Strikes and I only had access to one Simian Spirit Guide, but I still went 2-1, after almost winning my first match but losing last second to an infinite combo because I wasn't familiar with how the Persist trigger operates on the stack.
This is my decklist as of now:
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Steam Vents
4 Blood Crypt
3 Mountain
1 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (11)
4 Nivmagus Elemental
4 Kiln Fiend
2 Flamekin Harbinger
1 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Apostle's Blessing
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Assault Strobe
4 Slaughter Pact
4 Ground Rift
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Distortion Strike
2 Gut Shot
3 Dismember
3 Rending Volley
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Spell Pierce
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Dragon's Claw
First match was against a guy who played a very weird infinite combo deck, relying on interactions between Melira, Sylvok Outcast, Cartel Aristocrat, and either Kitchen Finks (for infinite lifegain), or Murderous Redcap (for infinite damage). I outran him first game, conceded second game, and would have won the third game with an unblockable, pumped up Kiln Fiend if I had known how to approach the Persist trigger with a Lightning Bolt. That being said, I know now, so when I go up against this guy again, he's a goner (He shows up regularly to the store I frequent).
Second match was against Merfolk and it was a cakewalk. The guy actually helped me out both games by giving me Spreading Seas on my Blood Crypt and Mountain when I had Distortion Strike in my hand. First game was ended by a 12/4, doublestriking Kiln Fiend on turn 2. Simian Spirit Guide is a miracle worker. Not many people can answer a turn one Kiln Fiend. Second game dragged on but he drew a crappy hand, cause he didn't have many lords or disruption against me, so I eventually pumped up another Kiln Fiend and swung once I got another Distortion Strike.
Third match was against my buddy's Monogreen Devotion and it was somewhat unusual in that the first game, he got out Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, killing off my Kiln Fiend, but I still managed to use Distortion Strike alongside my Nivmagus Elemental to take home the win. Second game was another first turn Kiln Fiend and we know by now how that ends.
Slaughter Pact is a lifesaver in this deck. It works best with Nivmagus Elemental but can clear the way for Kiln Fiend in a pinch. Also, I didn't really regret not adding in Tainted Strike except for my first match, which was against that stupid infinite lifegain deck.
Will keep you all updated on how I do with various builds!
BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends."
BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved."
RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros."
BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?"
C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
First deck was Podless Pod, they go for that cheesy infinite life combo as plan B. It can be tricky and is very annoying. Also, satisfying when you can beat them early and just smirk at their expensive deck. Or you just kill Melira as well. If new to FNM my #1 suggestion is to just slow it down, You're new, ask questions and read their cards! Actually any time you're not sure what stuff does just ask.
Keep at it and have fun!
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I'm glad this thread is still being kept alive. I hope the new Battle for Zendikar will give us some new goodies! <(^.^)>
Modern
C Colorless Eldrazi Stompy C
WUGC Bant Eldrazi CGUW
WBG Doran Formation GBW
Legacy
C Eldrazi Stompy C
Multiplayer Commander
GR Omnath, Locus of Rage RG
WU Brago, King Eternal UW
BG Slimefoot, the Stowaway GB