I'm uncertain, it seems like it would at some point seems sometimes it would be more useful in having more cards to chain prowess triggers together in a turn or more cards to work with towards your Storm count. Other times obviously the +1 power and reuse on the following turn will be more valuable than the cantrip. If anything I think its a card worth consideration in that spot, or potentially even along with it(since it does cantrip afterall).
It feels pretty meh but probably because I'm used to explosiveness of the modern version. Figure can go white to protect my threats, or go green for Become Immense. Anyone have suggestions or actually play standard? I haven't in a few months. But it's close to this playstyle and we all enjoy it.
Possible side into Jeskai Blackened, or I could drop white and Mantis Rider and splash green, but I want to like Mantis Rider
It feels pretty meh but probably because I'm used to explosiveness of the modern version. Figure can go white to protect my threats, or go green for Become Immense. Anyone have suggestions or actually play standard? I haven't in a few months. But it's close to this playstyle and we all enjoy it.
Possible side into Jeskai Blackened, or I could drop white and Mantis Rider and splash green, but I want to like Mantis Rider
I've played against a similar deck. My buddy runs the following deck list:
This deck is fascinating! I loved Nivmagus Elemental in RTR standard, got hooked on Eye Candy and then Grixis Blitz, and I have been playing Dirty Red for a good while since.
I was thinking about cards like Titan's Strength , Groundswell , Prey's Vengeance , Brute Force , since they would buff up the Kiln Fiend to 6/4 , 7/5, or even 8/6 by themselves. Each of them sounds interesting compared to others, but I'm not sure how they'd fit into this deck since they, other than Mutagenic Growth still cost actual mana, and which one would be most useful. Does anybody have experience using one of these? Is Mutagenic Growth just better 100% of the time, which it feels like when theorizing?
This deck is fascinating! I loved Nivmagus Elemental in RTR standard, got hooked on Eye Candy and then Grixis Blitz, and I have been playing Dirty Red for a good while since.
Immolating Souleater Is more for a full on infect combo from a Blitz deck, if I'm correct. It's kinda slow but would indeed "combo" with Death's Shadow.
Hidden Strings is a fun card. Triggers Prowess abilities, could be free, open up the field. Not sure where it'd fit in my list. Could be a budget replacement for Slaughter Pact ? But not really in relation with NivMaggy.
Was Ideas Unbound ever considered for this kind of a deck? Maybe it is possible to make the discard as painless as possible. My inclination is that discarding lands past the third one is less of an issue, also with many free o 1CMC spells we would be able to empty our hand before the end of turn. Of course discarding 0 is the perfect solution, but discarding one means we did better than just "draw 2" for two mana which is nice too.
UU is ROUGH. Unless you're going for a more RU main then only Phyrexian splash it could be done. First thoughts are it's too hard on my mana base to be anything dependable.
I was thinking about cards like Titan's Strength , Groundswell , Prey's Vengeance , Brute Force , since they would buff up the Kiln Fiend to 6/4 , 7/5, or even 8/6 by themselves. Each of them sounds interesting compared to others, but I'm not sure how they'd fit into this deck since they, other than Mutagenic Growth still cost actual mana, and which one would be most useful. Does anybody have experience using one of these? Is Mutagenic Growth just better 100% of the time, which it feels like when theorizing?
I'd run Prey's Vengeance over Groundswell in Elemental Shotgun but I'd run Mutagenic Growth over both of them. Rebound is great in this deck, though.
_______________________________________________________ Quote Me, few posts up:
IDK. First thoughts are that I prefer Distortion Strike > Slip Through Space
Second Thoughts are I could see trying out Slip Through Space in DS's place and maybe some Manamorphose action. Get some more Cantrips going could be VERY benefitial.
Was Ideas Unbound ever considered for this kind of a deck? Maybe it is possible to make the discard as painless as possible. My inclination is that discarding lands past the third one is less of an issue, also with many free o 1CMC spells we would be able to empty our hand before the end of turn. Of course discarding 0 is the perfect solution, but discarding one means we did better than just "draw 2" for two mana which is nice too.
UU is ROUGH. Unless you're going for a more RU main then only Phyrexian splash it could be done. First thoughts are it's too hard on my mana base to be anything dependable.
I've been thinking more of the RU, certainly. Also the deck would benefit from a bit more free spells. For playing Ideas Unbound the deck would have to let go white splash for Emerge Unscathed. Other than that I think that manabase would be fine. It's not like we care much about not shocking ourselves :P.
Anyway, I'll probably put something like this after OGW is available on MTGO. I've read many positive feedback on Stormchaser Mage, so that's what I am waiting for.
Back from hiatus and playing MTG again, and I am VERY excited to see we have some new converts to Ele-Combo/Shotgun.
Honestly, I don't run white in my build. I just use Apostle's Blessing. 2 life isn't as big a a deal as being able to stick to a more stable manabase, plus most of the time (at least from my experience), you only really need one of your dudes to have protection after they're pumped up. If anyone's interested in my build, I can repost it.
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Current Modern Decks BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends." BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved." RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros." BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?" C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
Slight adjustment to my version, Manamorphose has playtested well first 3 games I goldfished. With a total of 11 cantrips and 12 technically 16 "free" spells our going off can be fairly easy. Turn 3/4 in my quick tests were easy to go off.
Here's something I quickly came up with earlier today. I decided not to include any Nivmagus Elemental for now to see how well the deck works without them, so this might be slightly outside this thread. When goldfishing so far it usually either was a T2-4 Win, or a complete failure as I could not get the cards I needed. I have yet to test this against an actual opponent, so things might change there, and Feedback is obviously appreciated. I'm temtped to take out Become Immense, as I generally want to win before actually getting enough cards into my graveyard, but against actual players I might want to go shotgunning across multiple turns where it would obviously be really powerful again. Same goes for Death's Shadow.
Back from hiatus and playing MTG again, and I am VERY excited to see we have some new converts to Ele-Combo/Shotgun.
Honestly, I don't run white in my build. I just use Apostle's Blessing. 2 life isn't as big a a deal as being able to stick to a more stable manabase, plus most of the time (at least from my experience), you only really need one of your dudes to have protection after they're pumped up. If anyone's interested in my build, I can repost it.
Frankly, I found running 4 Apostle's Blessing and 2 Emerge Unscathed beneficial in my meta. I can't count how many times the consistent drawing of these spells has saved me from burn or removal. Not to the mention, the times I abused the protection mechanic so my opponent couldn't block it at the end of the Declare Attacker's step.
Slight adjustment to my version, Manamorphose has playtested well first 3 games I goldfished. With a total of 11 cantrips and 12 technically 16 "free" spells our going off can be fairly easy. Turn 3/4 in my quick tests were easy to go off.
Curious. Do you ever miss the +1/+0 and rebound from Distortion Strike? Or have you found the draw from Slip through Space to win you the game? I am open minded. I am willing to give it a shoot.
Does this deck have games when we don't kill opponent in one turn and just "slowly" bite their life total? I know that Tainted Strike is essentialy a +1+0 and Double Strike but how does it fare when you draw it in the middle of the game and your opponent is already on, say, 9 and you lost some resources on killing them through their life total? I mean, I know the card is great for combo kill but how often does it feel clunky? With the addition of Stormchaser Mage we should be able to get more of incremental damage game. Maybe Tainted Strike in some copies can become something else?
Why Simian Spirit Guide got cut from the decklists? I expect playing T1 Klin Fiend, T2 kill to be pretty exciting.
As the name suggest, we are shotgunning our opponent's life a chunk at a time. However, you can still win in T2 and I've done it many times using Monastery Swiftspear or Nivmagus Elemental with Assault Strobe, Tainted Strike, and one Mutagenic Growth or two other alternate-costing spells. Don't underestimate the benefits of having a Tainted Strike mid-game. It has won me games. Stormchaser Mage is a cool card and we spoke about testing it out a few posts back. Simian Spirit Guide is still a great card but most of us decided to deviate from it for more Phyrexian or alternate-costing spells.
Here's something I quickly came up with earlier today. I decided not to include any Nivmagus Elemental for now to see how well the deck works without them, so this might be slightly outside this thread. When goldfishing so far it usually either was a T2-4 Win, or a complete failure as I could not get the cards I needed. I have yet to test this against an actual opponent, so things might change there, and Feedback is obviously appreciated. I'm temtped to take out Become Immense, as I generally want to win before actually getting enough cards into my graveyard, but against actual players I might want to go shotgunning across multiple turns where it would obviously be really powerful again. Same goes for Death's Shadow.
True, it is deviating from the archetype but the idea remains the same. I think running 2 Become Immense might be too much. Back in the early stages of this deck, I use to run the 1-of because it was heavy mana dependent and/or graveyard dependent. Since you don't run Nivmagus Elemental, do you still find Ground Rift beneficial? One of the main uses of that card is to pump up Nivmagus Elemental early game since it can eat up the copies. You can use additional cantrips in its place like UtterPandemonium's deck to fuel the prowess.
On another note, I have been testing out Wild Slash in my MB and SB. I had a few encounters with Turbo Fog, Ad Nauseam's Darkness, and few decks with Burrenton Forge-Tender. These matches literally annoy me lol.
Love the Wild Slash tech! Probably gonna make a slot or 2 in my SB now.
Regarding my quick test list, I only goldfished it 4 times then. Just did 4 more and turn 3 kill 2x, 3rd game not too fast probably a loss if they didn't durdle, 4th was t4 win. Just try goldfishing that deck with an app or cockatrice, manamorphose especially is super benefitial. I say STS and DS are really close, you get 2 for 1 from both, 1 being 2 turns of +1/+0 + Unblockable and the other replaces itself. I see my version being way less Nivmagus Elemental friendly, though, hence dropping my one ground rift.
Become Immense, Okay, this great guy is a nonbo with Nivmaggy. If you want to run this I'd suggest something like... lemme make up a deck quick:
8 fetches, 12 cantrips should fill up the grave and dig for Become Immense. Manamorphose helps fix mana to make hitting U/B/G easier and gets you a card. It did not playtest as well as my previous version but this is just an example of a Become Immense build.
It's so interesting to see how this deck is evolving with the new sets.
I've always run the Ele-Combo version that focuses on a one shot, one kill combo by turn 3 at best, but I'm very tempted to try these other variations.
In recent times, I've gone 3-1 with this deck and 4-0; that single loss during the first tournament was to a Griselbrand Shoal that outraced me by a very close margin. Decks that I managed to outplay included Affinity, Elves, Merfolk, and even Monoblue Tron. This is my go to deck in terms of comfort, but funnily enough, I dislike playing it at my LGS due to a very aggro and midrange heavy meta.
Current Modern Decks BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends." BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved." RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros." BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?" C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
And you could change it to fight aggro/midrange, what are your main concerns? Heavy self damage is an issue.
This is very true, in terms of altering it for aggro/midrange, but to be completely honest, I'm not entirely sure which direction to take in order to counter my aggro/midrange heavy meta while keeping the spirit of the deck intact. I do realize that heavy self damage needs to be whittled down or replaced with alternatives, and I do believe the best approach is to still keep the one shot, one kill, but also give it more evasion, protection, and a means to stall my opponent. Even with the wombo combo's speed and explosiveness, it's still not much good if I can be delayed or stopped by a weenie or token.
As for Simian Spirit Guide, I have tried running it in the past multiple times, but the main problem is that I've never found the "golden ratio" of Guides to other spells/lands, as they usually either crop up at the worst times or not at all, even if I run four. Granted, there is something to be said for the look of utter horror on someone's face after you plop down a Kiln Fiend on turn one, and then proceed to watch them panic as they slowly realize that they're good as dead the next turn.
Current Modern Decks BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends." BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved." RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros." BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?" C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
About the whole T1 Kiln Fiend: How do you deal with a potential path to Exile? Unless you have 2 Spirit Guides, and then use your land for a potential Apostle's Blessing/Emerge unscathed.
And while we're on the matter, how does one deal with an opponent potentially having 2 Path to Exile on their Hand? I can T2 Simian Spirit Guide into a Kiln Fiend and have one mana open to counter a Path, but what if they play another one on their turn?
Does anybody know a way to deal with threats like this, apart from just playing the Fiend on T3-4 or having a really great opening Hand with 2 SSGs and 2 Protection Spells?
honestly if they waste 2 of their 4 path to exile on T2, you haven't got much to worry about for the rest of the game...
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Huey, Dewey and Louie are always dressed in RUG. it is CLEARLY going to be the wedges block Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
If concerned with theoretical multiple threats then run more protection or counters. I run 2 Pact of Negation for this reason. Also, if they burn 2 paths on 1 threat and a protection spell, cool. Durdle for another threat.
About the whole T1 Kiln Fiend: How do you deal with a potential path to Exile? Unless you have 2 Spirit Guides, and then use your land for a potential Apostle's Blessing/Emerge unscathed.
And while we're on the matter, how does one deal with an opponent potentially having 2 Path to Exile on their Hand? I can T2 Simian Spirit Guide into a Kiln Fiend and have one mana open to counter a Path, but what if they play another one on their turn?
Does anybody know a way to deal with threats like this, apart from just playing the Fiend on T3-4 or having a really great opening Hand with 2 SSGs and 2 Protection Spells?
In this kind of situation, the best I could really hope for is having something like one or two protection spells (Apostle's Blessing) in my hand, along with two Spirit Guides. I'd break it down like this:
T1 - Me: Play Kiln Fiend, using one of the Guides.
T1 - Them: They attempt to Path; I counter by using the second Spirit Guide in order to protect myself. 99 percent of the time, they'll be tapped out and forced to pass.
T2 - Me: I hit my second land, play a few pain spells to pump Kiln Fiend, and they should be dead or near death.
Alternatively, let's say I only have one Guide. In this case, I'd attempt to use a Probe if I had one, to see if I should play or not, otherwise I'd wait til my second turn so I'd have three mana available; two for the Fiend, one for protection.
Honestly, it's both luck and knowing what kind of deck your opponent is using. Is he/she playing a deck with white in it? Is it the first game or not? Did they sideboard in more threats?
The thing I've noticed with my build especially is that since it's so rogue, not many decks have an answer that's right on the spot for me. Yes, they have creature removal, but nothing like Smother, Last Gasp, or even Slaughter Pact. Most people I've encountered run Abrupt Decay, Dismember, etc, and those are cards that in my opinion are still a gain for us if used on our dudes, because they're forced to waste a spell that they'd rather play on something else or prefer to sit on. Instead, I'm coming at you with a double-striking, unblockable 18/19 on turn 2 and you have to pay four life for a Dismember that only mitigates a single point of damage; they have to pay four life and tap themselves out just to barely stay alive. That's an amazing tempo gain in my opinion.
Long post, I know, and I'm halfway sure I might've made an error or mistake somewhere along it. I've only recently returned to MTG after a hiatus, so advance apologies.
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Current Modern Decks BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends." BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved." RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros." BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?" C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
If concerned with theoretical multiple threats then run more protection or counters. I run 2 Pact of Negation for this reason. Also, if they burn 2 paths on 1 threat and a protection spell, cool. Durdle for another threat.
I should prolly invest in some of those soon. They're still mad expensive on a college budget, but I do want to use my wombo combo again sometime.
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Current Modern Decks BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends." BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved." RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros." BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?" C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
I got them last year when they were 12-15$, though I did get 2 more recently for my legacy deck I don't play much... now they're pretty pricey.
Work in getting 1 a month if possible, shouldn't go up too much, and I think 2 is all you need for this deck. Might be able to work them into your Grixis Delver, too.
Yeah, that'd be good. I realized that I basically had half the cards I needed for Grixis Delver from Ele-Combo.
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Current Modern Decks BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends." BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved." RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros." BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?" C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
What do you think about playing 1x Ingot Chewer in a sideboard with other artifact removals and Flamekin Harbinger in maindeck? I think it sounds good to tutor a artifact removal if you need one or you can't draw one in time. Bad thing is that it doesn't trigger Kiln Fiend or Nivmagus.
Have anyone tested this?
Thing is, a deck like this requires every slot to be immediately useful; the purpose of Harbinger is to mainly fetch Nivmagus Elemental, Kiln Fiend, or Death's Shadow. If we want artifact removal, we usually side stuff in. I can't speak for people who lean more towards the Shotgun side of the spectrum, but I run the Combo variant, which means I usually don't have to worry about much besides removal and beating my opponent before turn 4; otherwise, I usually have far more problems than just artifacts and such. Using the Combo variant, I have beaten Affinity on multiple occasions, so the only artifact hate I really have in my board is Hurkyl's Recall. Those are my two cents though. What does everyone else think?
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Current Modern Decks BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends." BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved." RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros." BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?" C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
With the modern meta in such a turbulent time I have been build "rouge"/"offbeat" decks. I picked up the pieces I was missing for this archetype and but my own flavor into it.
I really enjoy this idea but I keep feeling like I want to go wider. What do you guys think of Unnatural Endurance?
Also can someone explain that turn 2 knockout. I am going to play around with a "wider" board presence and seem what I come up with. First thing I see is 2 more Stormchaser and 2 Clout of Dominus to match. Maybe take a page from Grull Zoo and try bushwacker. Splash green for Atarka's commands if going wide works????
Slip Through Space is a cool cantrip but is it better than Distortion Strike's rebound, unblockability, and +1/+0?
Modern
C Colorless Eldrazi Stompy C
WUGC Bant Eldrazi CGUW
WBG Doran Formation GBW
Legacy
C Eldrazi Stompy C
Multiplayer Commander
GR Omnath, Locus of Rage RG
WU Brago, King Eternal UW
BG Slimefoot, the Stowaway GB
Off topic but still semi shotgun related:
I'm Looking at making a standard prowess version of this deck,I'll put it in a spoiler:
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
2 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Polluted Delta
2 Prairie Stream
2 Smoldering Marsh
1 Sunken Hollow
2 Wooded Foothills
// Creatures
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Stormchaser Mage
2 Elusive Spellfist
4 Mantis Rider
2 Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
4 Defiant Strike
4 Titan's Strength
2 Center Soul
2 Temur Battle Rage
2 Grip of the Roil
// Sorceries
4 Slip Through Space
2 Roast
2 Treasure Cruise
1 Mystic Monastery
1 Shivan Reef
1 Fiery Impulse
1 Artful Maneuver
2 Center Soul
2 Soulfire Grand Master
2 Valorous Stance
1 Jeskai Charm
4 Crackling Doom
3 Kolaghan's Command
1 Great Teacher's Decree
1 Become Immense
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
It feels pretty meh but probably because I'm used to explosiveness of the modern version. Figure can go white to protect my threats, or go green for Become Immense. Anyone have suggestions or actually play standard? I haven't in a few months. But it's close to this playstyle and we all enjoy it.
Possible side into Jeskai Blackened, or I could drop white and Mantis Rider and splash green, but I want to like Mantis Rider
EDIT:
Found a thread about the deck:
U/R(x) Prowess
Cube
Terricube
Modern
8Rack
Burn
Legacy
Oops, All Spells!
Pox
I've played against a similar deck. My buddy runs the following deck list:
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Expedite
4x Island
4x Monastery Swiftspear
5x Mountain
4x Polluted Delta
2x Roast
3x Shivan Reef
4x Slip Through Space
1x Smoldering Marsh
4x Stormchaser Mage
1x Sunken Hollow
2x Temur Battle Rage
4x Titan's Strength
2x Treasure Cruise
4x Umara Entangler
2x Wild Slash
2x Zada, Hedron Grinder
2x Dispel
4x Disperse
2x Fiery Impulse
3x Negate
2x Stubborn Denial
2x Tears of Valakut
Link to deck @ TappedOut.net
Modern
C Colorless Eldrazi Stompy C
WUGC Bant Eldrazi CGUW
WBG Doran Formation GBW
Legacy
C Eldrazi Stompy C
Multiplayer Commander
GR Omnath, Locus of Rage RG
WU Brago, King Eternal UW
BG Slimefoot, the Stowaway GB
I love the abuse of phyrexian mana here.
Obvious question that may have been addressed: How is Immolating Souleater? It combo's well with Death's Shadow and Tainted Strike, yeah?
More obscure question: How is Hidden Strings? You have to hit 1U, but it's either evasion or "free" to cast and combo's nicely with Nivmagus Elemental and Temur Battle Rage.
Immolating Souleater Is more for a full on infect combo from a Blitz deck, if I'm correct. It's kinda slow but would indeed "combo" with Death's Shadow.
Hidden Strings is a fun card. Triggers Prowess abilities, could be free, open up the field. Not sure where it'd fit in my list. Could be a budget replacement for Slaughter Pact ? But not really in relation with NivMaggy.
UU is ROUGH. Unless you're going for a more RU main then only Phyrexian splash it could be done. First thoughts are it's too hard on my mana base to be anything dependable.
I'd run Prey's Vengeance over Groundswell in Elemental Shotgun but I'd run Mutagenic Growth over both of them. Rebound is great in this deck, though.
_______________________________________________________
Quote Me, few posts up:
IDK. First thoughts are that I prefer Distortion Strike > Slip Through Space
Second Thoughts are I could see trying out Slip Through Space in DS's place and maybe some Manamorphose action. Get some more Cantrips going could be VERY benefitial.
Cube
Terricube
Modern
8Rack
Burn
Legacy
Oops, All Spells!
Pox
Back from hiatus and playing MTG again, and I am VERY excited to see we have some new converts to Ele-Combo/Shotgun.
Honestly, I don't run white in my build. I just use Apostle's Blessing. 2 life isn't as big a a deal as being able to stick to a more stable manabase, plus most of the time (at least from my experience), you only really need one of your dudes to have protection after they're pumped up. If anyone's interested in my build, I can repost it.
BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends."
BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved."
RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros."
BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?"
C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
Try new stuff out at FNM or MTGO, let us know.
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 City of Brass
2 Mana Confluence
2 Mountain
3 Steam Vents
3 Wooded Foothills
// Creatures 15
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Nivmagus Elemental
3 Stormchaser Mage
4 Kiln Fiend
2 Pact of Negation
2 Slaughter Pact
3 Tainted Strike
4 Mutagenic Growth
2 Temur Battle Rage
4 Apostle's Blessing
4 Manamorphose
// Sorceries
3 Slip Through Space
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Shattering Spree
3 Thoughtseize
2 Rakdos Charm
4 Young Pyromancer
Slight adjustment to my version, Manamorphose has playtested well first 3 games I goldfished. With a total of 11 cantrips and 12 technically 16 "free" spells our going off can be fairly easy. Turn 3/4 in my quick tests were easy to go off.
Cube
Terricube
Modern
8Rack
Burn
Legacy
Oops, All Spells!
Pox
4 Mana Confluence
4 City of Brass
3 Blood Crypt
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Stomping Ground
1 Steam Vents
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Kiln Fiend
4 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Stormchaser Mage
2 Death's Shadow
2 Simian Spirit Guide
Instants (16)
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Tainted Strike
2 Become Immense
2 Emerge Unscathed
4 Apostle's Blessing
2 Gitaxian Probe
3 Assault Strobe
3 Distortion Strike
4 Ground Rift
I know right! It is great to see more people interested in this deck archetype.
Frankly, I found running 4 Apostle's Blessing and 2 Emerge Unscathed beneficial in my meta. I can't count how many times the consistent drawing of these spells has saved me from burn or removal. Not to the mention, the times I abused the protection mechanic so my opponent couldn't block it at the end of the Declare Attacker's step.
Curious. Do you ever miss the +1/+0 and rebound from Distortion Strike? Or have you found the draw from Slip through Space to win you the game? I am open minded. I am willing to give it a shoot.
As the name suggest, we are shotgunning our opponent's life a chunk at a time. However, you can still win in T2 and I've done it many times using Monastery Swiftspear or Nivmagus Elemental with Assault Strobe, Tainted Strike, and one Mutagenic Growth or two other alternate-costing spells. Don't underestimate the benefits of having a Tainted Strike mid-game. It has won me games. Stormchaser Mage is a cool card and we spoke about testing it out a few posts back. Simian Spirit Guide is still a great card but most of us decided to deviate from it for more Phyrexian or alternate-costing spells.
True, it is deviating from the archetype but the idea remains the same. I think running 2 Become Immense might be too much. Back in the early stages of this deck, I use to run the 1-of because it was heavy mana dependent and/or graveyard dependent. Since you don't run Nivmagus Elemental, do you still find Ground Rift beneficial? One of the main uses of that card is to pump up Nivmagus Elemental early game since it can eat up the copies. You can use additional cantrips in its place like UtterPandemonium's deck to fuel the prowess.
On another note, I have been testing out Wild Slash in my MB and SB. I had a few encounters with Turbo Fog, Ad Nauseam's Darkness, and few decks with Burrenton Forge-Tender. These matches literally annoy me lol.
Modern
C Colorless Eldrazi Stompy C
WUGC Bant Eldrazi CGUW
WBG Doran Formation GBW
Legacy
C Eldrazi Stompy C
Multiplayer Commander
GR Omnath, Locus of Rage RG
WU Brago, King Eternal UW
BG Slimefoot, the Stowaway GB
Love the Wild Slash tech! Probably gonna make a slot or 2 in my SB now.
Regarding my quick test list, I only goldfished it 4 times then. Just did 4 more and turn 3 kill 2x, 3rd game not too fast probably a loss if they didn't durdle, 4th was t4 win. Just try goldfishing that deck with an app or cockatrice, manamorphose especially is super benefitial. I say STS and DS are really close, you get 2 for 1 from both, 1 being 2 turns of +1/+0 + Unblockable and the other replaces itself. I see my version being way less Nivmagus Elemental friendly, though, hence dropping my one ground rift.
Become Immense, Okay, this great guy is a nonbo with Nivmaggy. If you want to run this I'd suggest something like... lemme make up a deck quick:
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 City of Brass
2 Mana Confluence
1 Mountain
2 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
// Creatures 14
4 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Death's Shadow
4 Stormchaser Mage
4 Kiln Fiend
2 Pact of Negation
3 Tainted Strike
4 Mutagenic Growth
2 Temur Battle Rage
4 Apostle's Blessing
4 Manamorphose
2 Become Immense
// Sorceries
4 Slip Through Space
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Shattering Spree
2 Wild Slash
3 Thoughtseize
2 Rakdos Charm
4 Young Pyromancer
8 fetches, 12 cantrips should fill up the grave and dig for Become Immense. Manamorphose helps fix mana to make hitting U/B/G easier and gets you a card. It did not playtest as well as my previous version but this is just an example of a Become Immense build.
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I've always run the Ele-Combo version that focuses on a one shot, one kill combo by turn 3 at best, but I'm very tempted to try these other variations.
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Blood Crypt
4 Steam Vents
1 Wooded Foothills
5 Mountain
Creatures
4 Nivmagus Elemental
4 Kiln Fiend
2 Flamekin Harbinger
4 Apostle's Blessing
4 Assault Strobe
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ground Rift
4 Slaughter Pact
4 Mutagenic Growth
3 Tainted Strike
3 Distortion Strike
2 Gut Shot
3 Dismember
2 Dragon's Claw
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Rending Volley
2 Spell Pierce
2 Tormod's Crypt
In recent times, I've gone 3-1 with this deck and 4-0; that single loss during the first tournament was to a Griselbrand Shoal that outraced me by a very close margin. Decks that I managed to outplay included Affinity, Elves, Merfolk, and even Monoblue Tron. This is my go to deck in terms of comfort, but funnily enough, I dislike playing it at my LGS due to a very aggro and midrange heavy meta.
BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends."
BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved."
RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros."
BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?"
C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
And you could change it to fight aggro/midrange, what are your main concerns? Heavy self damage is an issue.
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This is very true, in terms of altering it for aggro/midrange, but to be completely honest, I'm not entirely sure which direction to take in order to counter my aggro/midrange heavy meta while keeping the spirit of the deck intact. I do realize that heavy self damage needs to be whittled down or replaced with alternatives, and I do believe the best approach is to still keep the one shot, one kill, but also give it more evasion, protection, and a means to stall my opponent. Even with the wombo combo's speed and explosiveness, it's still not much good if I can be delayed or stopped by a weenie or token.
As for Simian Spirit Guide, I have tried running it in the past multiple times, but the main problem is that I've never found the "golden ratio" of Guides to other spells/lands, as they usually either crop up at the worst times or not at all, even if I run four. Granted, there is something to be said for the look of utter horror on someone's face after you plop down a Kiln Fiend on turn one, and then proceed to watch them panic as they slowly realize that they're good as dead the next turn.
BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends."
BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved."
RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros."
BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?"
C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
And while we're on the matter, how does one deal with an opponent potentially having 2 Path to Exile on their Hand? I can T2 Simian Spirit Guide into a Kiln Fiend and have one mana open to counter a Path, but what if they play another one on their turn?
Does anybody know a way to deal with threats like this, apart from just playing the Fiend on T3-4 or having a really great opening Hand with 2 SSGs and 2 Protection Spells?
(Replace Path to Exile with any other 1 Mana Removal we can't deal with by just playing a Mutagenic Growth )
Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons
ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
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In this kind of situation, the best I could really hope for is having something like one or two protection spells (Apostle's Blessing) in my hand, along with two Spirit Guides. I'd break it down like this:
T1 - Me: Play Kiln Fiend, using one of the Guides.
T1 - Them: They attempt to Path; I counter by using the second Spirit Guide in order to protect myself. 99 percent of the time, they'll be tapped out and forced to pass.
T2 - Me: I hit my second land, play a few pain spells to pump Kiln Fiend, and they should be dead or near death.
Alternatively, let's say I only have one Guide. In this case, I'd attempt to use a Probe if I had one, to see if I should play or not, otherwise I'd wait til my second turn so I'd have three mana available; two for the Fiend, one for protection.
Honestly, it's both luck and knowing what kind of deck your opponent is using. Is he/she playing a deck with white in it? Is it the first game or not? Did they sideboard in more threats?
The thing I've noticed with my build especially is that since it's so rogue, not many decks have an answer that's right on the spot for me. Yes, they have creature removal, but nothing like Smother, Last Gasp, or even Slaughter Pact. Most people I've encountered run Abrupt Decay, Dismember, etc, and those are cards that in my opinion are still a gain for us if used on our dudes, because they're forced to waste a spell that they'd rather play on something else or prefer to sit on. Instead, I'm coming at you with a double-striking, unblockable 18/19 on turn 2 and you have to pay four life for a Dismember that only mitigates a single point of damage; they have to pay four life and tap themselves out just to barely stay alive. That's an amazing tempo gain in my opinion.
Long post, I know, and I'm halfway sure I might've made an error or mistake somewhere along it. I've only recently returned to MTG after a hiatus, so advance apologies.
BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends."
BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved."
RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros."
BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?"
C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
I should prolly invest in some of those soon. They're still mad expensive on a college budget, but I do want to use my wombo combo again sometime.
BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends."
BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved."
RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros."
BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?"
C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
Work in getting 1 a month if possible, shouldn't go up too much, and I think 2 is all you need for this deck. Might be able to work them into your Grixis Delver, too.
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BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends."
BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved."
RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros."
BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?"
C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
Thing is, a deck like this requires every slot to be immediately useful; the purpose of Harbinger is to mainly fetch Nivmagus Elemental, Kiln Fiend, or Death's Shadow. If we want artifact removal, we usually side stuff in. I can't speak for people who lean more towards the Shotgun side of the spectrum, but I run the Combo variant, which means I usually don't have to worry about much besides removal and beating my opponent before turn 4; otherwise, I usually have far more problems than just artifacts and such. Using the Combo variant, I have beaten Affinity on multiple occasions, so the only artifact hate I really have in my board is Hurkyl's Recall. Those are my two cents though. What does everyone else think?
BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends."
BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved."
RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros."
BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?"
C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
With the modern meta in such a turbulent time I have been build "rouge"/"offbeat" decks. I picked up the pieces I was missing for this archetype and but my own flavor into it.
4 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Stormchaser Mage
2 Death's Shadow
2 Kilm Fiend
4 Apostle's Blessing
4 Distortion Strike
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Probe
4 Tainted Strike
2 Temur Battle Rage
2 Ground Rift
3 Virulent Strike
2 Clout of Dominus
2 Polluted Delta
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Steam Vents
3 Blood Crypt
1 Watery Grave
1 Mountain
1 Dryad Arbor
I really enjoy this idea but I keep feeling like I want to go wider. What do you guys think of Unnatural Endurance?
Also can someone explain that turn 2 knockout. I am going to play around with a "wider" board presence and seem what I come up with. First thing I see is 2 more Stormchaser and 2 Clout of Dominus to match. Maybe take a page from Grull Zoo and try bushwacker. Splash green for Atarka's commands if going wide works????
Thoughts?