Switched from the midrange version of the deck to the aggro version of the deck after about 60 or so matches - the midrange build folded hard to Storm (I see the matchup as more or less an auto-loss) and had a pretty unfavorable matchup against Dredge; I was tired of going up against those decks in MTGO leagues over and over again. The Death Shadow matchup wasn't so hot either, and what's the point in playing a deck that can't compete against DS in this meta?
With that said, I enjoy the aggro version much more, and it's got a lot more game to it than I had thought. It also does better in the Mono U Architect mirror, for what it's worth. Oh, and the Aethersphere Harvesters are A+. Bad T1/2 matchups I'd look out for when deciding to play the deck or not in your meta would be: Storm, Tron, Titanshift, Dredge, and Elves.
If you concerned about storm and dredge you can try Disrupting Shoal. It stops their most explosive starts (creatures for storm, reunion for dredge), and you don't lose tempo.
Also, what do you guys think about one Batterskull in 75?
No, rejection so far has been a great tempo play against must-answer cards like Wurmcoil and O-Stone - and it's one freaking mana. I can hold up one mana if it means I won't lose the game.
No, rejection so far has been a great tempo play against must-answer cards like Wurmcoil and O-Stone - and it's one freaking mana. I can hold up one mana if it means I won't lose the game.
i mean I'd rather keep them off the tron rather than try to answer every threat once they have it. I don't think that's how you want to attack that matchup but I may be wrong.
Hey all, I've been lurking on this thread for a while and pretty excited to say I just ordered all the cards to start playing this deck. Thanks to everyone here to all their work refining this deck. I have a couple ideas for cards that seem like they'd do well in this deck (mostly sideboard), and I wanted to run them by you folks to see what you thought about them.
Bottled Cloister - Fishbowling this deck a bit, it seems like it's easy to get all your threats on the board, but that it doesn't have many options to come back from a board wipe - Supreme Verdict or Damnation or Anger of the Gods seem totally game ending. Drawing two cards per turn seems like a great insurance policy against cards like that, and it seems like this deck could land it on turn 3 easily.
Ghost Quarter - GQ seems like a great main deck disruption option. It seems more attractive than Cavern of Souls since I see a lot more Tron than counter spells in my meta. Curious if people have tried it and what the floor seems to be for a number of blue lands.
Fetches - Is it deliberate that you folks aren't running fetches? The thinning seems like a marginal but pretty standard decision.
Other cards that I have seen discussed in this forum but don't understand why they aren't included recently -
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben - For this more aggressive, all-in build, this seems like a super-powerful effect. I know it's not an artifact, but it does attack with gusto. Why hasn't it been making the cut?
Chalice of the Void - It seems like most of our best cards are at the 0 and 3 cmc slots, and DS and Storm and Burn have their best cards at 1 and 2 slots. Throw in Trinket Mages and this seems like solid gold for the sideboard - why hasn't it made it?
Hey all, I've been lurking on this thread for a while and pretty excited to say I just ordered all the cards to start playing this deck. Thanks to everyone here to all their work refining this deck. I have a couple ideas for cards that seem like they'd do well in this deck (mostly sideboard), and I wanted to run them by you folks to see what you thought about them.
Bottled Cloister - Fishbowling this deck a bit, it seems like it's easy to get all your threats on the board, but that it doesn't have many options to come back from a board wipe - Supreme Verdict or Damnation or Anger of the Gods seem totally game ending. Drawing two cards per turn seems like a great insurance policy against cards like that, and it seems like this deck could land it on turn 3 easily.
Ghost Quarter - GQ seems like a great main deck disruption option. It seems more attractive than Cavern of Souls since I see a lot more Tron than counter spells in my meta. Curious if people have tried it and what the floor seems to be for a number of blue lands.
Fetches - Is it deliberate that you folks aren't running fetches? The thinning seems like a marginal but pretty standard decision.
Other cards that I have seen discussed in this forum but don't understand why they aren't included recently -
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben - For this more aggressive, all-in build, this seems like a super-powerful effect. I know it's not an artifact, but it does attack with gusto. Why hasn't it been making the cut?
Chalice of the Void - It seems like most of our best cards are at the 0 and 3 cmc slots, and DS and Storm and Burn have their best cards at 1 and 2 slots. Throw in Trinket Mages and this seems like solid gold for the sideboard - why hasn't it made it?
Cheers all
I've tried 4 cmc sb cards and usually they're too late. Scrap trawler is kinda the go to there although vs anger that is an issue.
It's an aggro deck so tempo lost by using a gq or not having the U can hurt.
No damage from our mana base is really nice and fetches would be needed if you were to go the Thalia line but the key is that everything is blue or an artifact.
Chalice would hurt us more than help us and again we tend to be an aggro deck so taking turns off to land a chalice could be worse than killing one turn earlier.
You can't hold them off of Tron, that's not within the deck's capability.
With quicksilver fountain you can, long enough to win at least. Not sure if it is the best strategy. Trying to answer their stuff seems medium, cuz when they get another we're toast.
I haven't played much vs tron. Aren't aggro decks in general good vs tron? Why do we fear the deck so much?
Also, this isn't exactly a Zoo type aggro deck and more in line with tribal synergy-reliant decks like Elves or Merfolk.
Seas is againt the tax idea that's why I too run 2 fountain and if you have an oboro you can hold off tron a long time. This deck can be just as fast as a zoo deck.
(Recent lurker waiting to get the remaining cards for the deck together)
Quicksilver Fountain I feel is only good on the play and Spreading Seas costs your pivotal turn 2 where we actually do our things so there's no real great handle for the lands themselves imo.
The one card I want to try is replacing one Throne with one Contested War Zone. Functionally the same in strict races (combo or before Tron/Control take over.) Mild liability against Goblin Guide decks but really it would just never untap again assuming we use it the turn we play it. Thoughts?
I'm not real sold on any particular sideboard yet but the main 60 seems about air tight other than that.
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One thing I've noticed since playing the deck is how important winning that die roll is. Unless the other player stumbles, it's a slog when on the draw.
Regarding Quicksilver Fountain, if we don't cast it by turn 3 on the play, it's not going to hose anyone enough unless they're missing land drops.
(Recent lurker waiting to get the remaining cards for the deck together)
Quicksilver Fountain I feel is only good on the play and Spreading Seas costs your pivotal turn 2 where we actually do our things so there's no real great handle for the lands themselves imo.
The one card I want to try is replacing one Throne with one Contested War Zone. Functionally the same in strict races (combo or before Tron/Control take over.) Mild liability against Goblin Guide decks but really it would just never untap again assuming we use it the turn we play it. Thoughts?
I'm not real sold on any particular sideboard yet but the main 60 seems about air tight other than that.
idont think you fully see the value in throne. When you tap your creatures for mana throne deals damage at the end of turn. So even when you can't attack you can make mana (even if for no reason) and deal damage.
Last Thursday the only match I won the die roll on was the match I lost in 2! I think ballista gives us plenty of opportunities to get back in the game.
Fountain can come down t2 even while you're advancing your aggro plan. Play the deck and see the lines in action. Seas takes time off and isn't really following the deck design imo.
I'm not trying to be rude or shoot people down but theory crafting without playing thedeck quite a bit doesn't help. I made land changes but other than that I ran aces list for 25ish matches before trying to decide what I did and didn't like the most and what cards I wanted to try.
It is probably possible to play Blood Moon in this deck's SB with lands like Glimmervoid/Spire of Industry like "Affinity" does.
I'm not sure if it is worth it though.
Agreed with what has been said about spreading seas, it is unplayable because of how the deck is designed. Like KTROJAN said, fountain plays well along our lines. Yes it may come too late on the draw but at least it shuts down future threats.
Our best bet may be to try and beat the first threat and hopefully shut down subsequent ones with fountain. Karn liberated should be beatable, wurmcoil engine might be harder but maybe not impossible. Again, i dodged tron a lot this past month but my experience with vs the deck in general is that you always lose the the second and third threat, not the first one.
One nice thing about quicksilver fountain is that even if they topdeck nature's claim later on the flood counters remain, as opposed to blood moon just going away.
Yes it is possible to play blood moon, but if you want to do that just use fetches and shocks, glimmervoid is garbage if we don't play artifacts turn 1 and 2 (which happens often) and even if you do, a single removal spell will pop it. I've tried the red splash and can assure you the loss of consistency in the mana and the extra damage aren't worth it.
Throne does seem sweet I was just considering a 1/1 split with the land.
I've never cast a Quicksilver Fountain before but even T3 on the draw it can stop aforementioned threats 2-3 as well as Ulamog or a sandbagged Walking Ballista of theirs.
I've watched a handful of streamed matches with the deck and it always seems it's the main 60 cards doing real work pre and post board. Deck is super solid and I'm pumped to get it together.
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I normally play the midrange version of this deck, but decided to give the aggro version a try. So far through 2 MTGO leagues, I am 3 - 7 with the deck. I blame it mostly on bad draws and mulligans etc, but it really makes me miss Sage of Epityr to smooth all that out. Here's what I ran:
League 1
0-2 Goblins
1-2 Merfolk
2-0 Eldrazi Tron
0-2 Boggles
2-1 Storm
League 2
1-2 Living End
1-2 Storm
1-2 Living End
0-2 Devoted Druid
2-1 Devoted Druid
I am not sure what went wrong, except that I had to mulligan lots of 1 and 0 land hands, and just drew bad in general. Signal Pest underperformed too, not attacking for value as often as I would have liked. It is also irritating that Pest and Grand Architect have no synergy with each other. I like the idea of Thalia, Guardian of Thraben with Signal Pest, but alas it didn't come up.
Thalia + Path to Exile continue to perform well for me though, and I don't feel that the splash has much of a cost. Giving them a land with Path can hinder the tax plan, but the flexibility to kill anything has been valuable. With that being said, perhaps another removal spell would be better. Mono blue is pretty sweet on its own though, so definitely I don't feel a splash is necessary just for removal. Thalia is better than Thorn of Amethystin my opinion, but not worth splashing for on her own either.
Chalice of the Void has been great for me in both versions of the deck, and rarely does it hurt not being able to cast 1 drops. I side some of them out if possible, and I just try to cast them before I play Chalice. Its also worth noting that this deck can easily cast Challice on x=2, or really any CMC setting (x=1-5 at least).
I wanna continue to test the aggro version of this deck, so I am going to run this or something similar through another league. I just need to draw a little better this time! Lemme know if you have any suggestions ASAP, since I will have a little time to make a changes before entering the next league. Thanks!
I ran the following at Modern Monday. Went 3-1, lost to Devoted Druid game 1 cause he had double druid back-to-back. game 2 cause i kept this: Island, Cage, Sculpter, Sculpter, Engineer, Walking Ballista, Grand Architect. I think it was worth the risk beacuse I only needed one more land to be able to take over with ballista. but i didnt get one til my turn 4 and died.
I dont think I missed the signal pests at all. the birds felt good as always. I didnt have chalice at the time, so i ran a 2nd harvester which was fine. I think chalice is good addition because it attacks living end which can be an issue, as well as an assortment of other decks.
I don't really think that Sage of Epityr is a playable card, it just doesn't do anything that is worth a card slot (like Index that nobody plays),
even Augury Owl is better. Glint-Nest Crane would be much better (or even Serum Visions).
I ran the following at Modern Monday. Went 3-1, lost to Devoted Druid game 1 cause he had double druid back-to-back. game 2 cause i kept this: Island, Cage, Sculpter, Sculpter, Engineer, Walking Ballista, Grand Architect. I think it was worth the risk beacuse I only needed one more land to be able to take over with ballista. but i didnt get one til my turn 4 and died.
I dont think I missed the signal pests at all. the birds felt good as always. I didnt have chalice at the time, so i ran a 2nd harvester which was fine. I think chalice is good addition because it attacks living end which can be an issue, as well as an assortment of other decks.
Are 3 masters still as good with no pests? I really like the additional blue creatures even though I've been loving sages.
I don't really think that Sage of Epityr is a playable card, it just doesn't do anything that is worth a card slot (like Index that nobody plays). Glint-Nest Crane would be much better (or even Serum Visions).
I actually love sage. Often it makes it so I can line up my land drops and if I don't need them space it out so I can loot them away. I also am going lower on lands though with sage. Crane doesn't come down t1 can't get land and our 2 drop spot is just way too full. I really think you want a blue one drop t1 and it's either sage or familiar for me right now. As far as any non creature non artifict cards I just can't get behind any.
With that said, I enjoy the aggro version much more, and it's got a lot more game to it than I had thought. It also does better in the Mono U Architect mirror, for what it's worth. Oh, and the Aethersphere Harvesters are A+. Bad T1/2 matchups I'd look out for when deciding to play the deck or not in your meta would be: Storm, Tron, Titanshift, Dredge, and Elves.
EDIT: Ceremonious Rejection is great.
Also, what do you guys think about one Batterskull in 75?
Bottled Cloister - Fishbowling this deck a bit, it seems like it's easy to get all your threats on the board, but that it doesn't have many options to come back from a board wipe - Supreme Verdict or Damnation or Anger of the Gods seem totally game ending. Drawing two cards per turn seems like a great insurance policy against cards like that, and it seems like this deck could land it on turn 3 easily.
Ghost Quarter - GQ seems like a great main deck disruption option. It seems more attractive than Cavern of Souls since I see a lot more Tron than counter spells in my meta. Curious if people have tried it and what the floor seems to be for a number of blue lands.
Fetches - Is it deliberate that you folks aren't running fetches? The thinning seems like a marginal but pretty standard decision.
Other cards that I have seen discussed in this forum but don't understand why they aren't included recently -
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben - For this more aggressive, all-in build, this seems like a super-powerful effect. I know it's not an artifact, but it does attack with gusto. Why hasn't it been making the cut?
Chalice of the Void - It seems like most of our best cards are at the 0 and 3 cmc slots, and DS and Storm and Burn have their best cards at 1 and 2 slots. Throw in Trinket Mages and this seems like solid gold for the sideboard - why hasn't it made it?
Cheers all
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/secretly-vedalken-tribal-architect-aggro-modern-stream-highlights
I've tried 4 cmc sb cards and usually they're too late. Scrap trawler is kinda the go to there although vs anger that is an issue.
It's an aggro deck so tempo lost by using a gq or not having the U can hurt.
No damage from our mana base is really nice and fetches would be needed if you were to go the Thalia line but the key is that everything is blue or an artifact.
Chalice would hurt us more than help us and again we tend to be an aggro deck so taking turns off to land a chalice could be worse than killing one turn earlier.
With quicksilver fountain you can, long enough to win at least. Not sure if it is the best strategy. Trying to answer their stuff seems medium, cuz when they get another we're toast.
I haven't played much vs tron. Aren't aggro decks in general good vs tron? Why do we fear the deck so much?
Also, this isn't exactly a Zoo type aggro deck and more in line with tribal synergy-reliant decks like Elves or Merfolk.
Seas is againt the tax idea that's why I too run 2 fountain and if you have an oboro you can hold off tron a long time. This deck can be just as fast as a zoo deck.
Fountain seems like a really slow version of (blue) Blood Moon.
Quicksilver Fountain I feel is only good on the play and Spreading Seas costs your pivotal turn 2 where we actually do our things so there's no real great handle for the lands themselves imo.
The one card I want to try is replacing one Throne with one Contested War Zone. Functionally the same in strict races (combo or before Tron/Control take over.) Mild liability against Goblin Guide decks but really it would just never untap again assuming we use it the turn we play it. Thoughts?
I'm not real sold on any particular sideboard yet but the main 60 seems about air tight other than that.
Regarding Quicksilver Fountain, if we don't cast it by turn 3 on the play, it's not going to hose anyone enough unless they're missing land drops.
Last Thursday the only match I won the die roll on was the match I lost in 2! I think ballista gives us plenty of opportunities to get back in the game.
Fountain can come down t2 even while you're advancing your aggro plan. Play the deck and see the lines in action. Seas takes time off and isn't really following the deck design imo.
I'm not trying to be rude or shoot people down but theory crafting without playing thedeck quite a bit doesn't help. I made land changes but other than that I ran aces list for 25ish matches before trying to decide what I did and didn't like the most and what cards I wanted to try.
I'm not sure if it is worth it though.
Our best bet may be to try and beat the first threat and hopefully shut down subsequent ones with fountain. Karn liberated should be beatable, wurmcoil engine might be harder but maybe not impossible. Again, i dodged tron a lot this past month but my experience with vs the deck in general is that you always lose the the second and third threat, not the first one.
One nice thing about quicksilver fountain is that even if they topdeck nature's claim later on the flood counters remain, as opposed to blood moon just going away.
Yes it is possible to play blood moon, but if you want to do that just use fetches and shocks, glimmervoid is garbage if we don't play artifacts turn 1 and 2 (which happens often) and even if you do, a single removal spell will pop it. I've tried the red splash and can assure you the loss of consistency in the mana and the extra damage aren't worth it.
I've never cast a Quicksilver Fountain before but even T3 on the draw it can stop aforementioned threats 2-3 as well as Ulamog or a sandbagged Walking Ballista of theirs.
I've watched a handful of streamed matches with the deck and it always seems it's the main 60 cards doing real work pre and post board. Deck is super solid and I'm pumped to get it together.
4 Grand Architect
4 Etherium Sculptor
4 Chief Engineer
4 Signal Pest
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Walking Ballista
4 Master of Etherium
4 Smuggler's Copter
2 Throne of the God-Pharaoh
Land
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Flooded Strand
6 Island
3 Seachrome Coast
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Plains
2 Trinket Mage
4 Chalice of the void
3 Path to Exile
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Basilisk Collar
League 1
0-2 Goblins
1-2 Merfolk
2-0 Eldrazi Tron
0-2 Boggles
2-1 Storm
League 2
1-2 Living End
1-2 Storm
1-2 Living End
0-2 Devoted Druid
2-1 Devoted Druid
I am not sure what went wrong, except that I had to mulligan lots of 1 and 0 land hands, and just drew bad in general. Signal Pest underperformed too, not attacking for value as often as I would have liked. It is also irritating that Pest and Grand Architect have no synergy with each other. I like the idea of Thalia, Guardian of Thraben with Signal Pest, but alas it didn't come up.
Thalia + Path to Exile continue to perform well for me though, and I don't feel that the splash has much of a cost. Giving them a land with Path can hinder the tax plan, but the flexibility to kill anything has been valuable. With that being said, perhaps another removal spell would be better. Mono blue is pretty sweet on its own though, so definitely I don't feel a splash is necessary just for removal. Thalia is better than Thorn of Amethystin my opinion, but not worth splashing for on her own either.
Chalice of the Void has been great for me in both versions of the deck, and rarely does it hurt not being able to cast 1 drops. I side some of them out if possible, and I just try to cast them before I play Chalice. Its also worth noting that this deck can easily cast Challice on x=2, or really any CMC setting (x=1-5 at least).
I wanna continue to test the aggro version of this deck, so I am going to run this or something similar through another league. I just need to draw a little better this time! Lemme know if you have any suggestions ASAP, since I will have a little time to make a changes before entering the next league. Thanks!
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Etherium Sculptor
4 Chief Engineer
4 Grand Architect
3 Master of Etherium
4 Walking Ballista
1 Hangarback Walker
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Smuggler's Copter
2 Throne of the God-Pharaoh
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
2 Trinket Mage
2 Scrap Trawler
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Unified Will
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Aethersphere Harvester
I dont think I missed the signal pests at all. the birds felt good as always. I didnt have chalice at the time, so i ran a 2nd harvester which was fine. I think chalice is good addition because it attacks living end which can be an issue, as well as an assortment of other decks.
even Augury Owl is better.
Glint-Nest Crane would be much better (or even Serum Visions).
For removal Dismember seems like the best option in Mono-Blue, can be good with some lifegain to balance it out
(Wurmcoil Engine, Vault Skirge, Aethersphere Harvester).
Maybe Vapor Snag is a good option as well.
Are 3 masters still as good with no pests? I really like the additional blue creatures even though I've been loving sages.
I actually love sage. Often it makes it so I can line up my land drops and if I don't need them space it out so I can loot them away. I also am going lower on lands though with sage. Crane doesn't come down t1 can't get land and our 2 drop spot is just way too full. I really think you want a blue one drop t1 and it's either sage or familiar for me right now. As far as any non creature non artifict cards I just can't get behind any.