I know, but as a turn 2 play (when you have 1 creature at best on board) it can be better at ramping.
Also, as I mentioned earlier Chief isn't good in multiples.
I know, but as a turn 2 play (when you have 1 creature at best on board) it can be better at ramping.
Also, as I mentioned earlier Chief isn't good in multiples.
May i suggest you play the deck before making further suggestions? Your posts reveal a lack of understanding of how the deck functions. The lists played here have been tuned and tuned since a very long time. The deck seems counter-intuitive on paper but you have to play with it, or at least goldfish a bit, to fully understand how it works. Otherwize you can keep suggesting cards that were tested years ago and failed to perform, but this is going nowhere. Most of what you suggest has been tried and proven bad. You can go back pages in this thread and read all about it. Or you can try it for yourself and come to the same conclusion, do whatever you want.
Edit: also i've come to the conclusion that phyrexian metamorph isn't good anymore in the aggro version. It used to be great before kaladesh because you could copy myr superion, which was an awesome target. As the deck stands right now, there is no more need for the shapeshifter.
Hi, I was wondering what you were running lately? I see you posted a list 2 pages ago, but was wondering if you have seen anything these past few days from GPs and SCG tournaments to warrant any change? I'm pretty close to committing to buying the deck and just finalize and compare with your deck since you seem to be the one fielding the deck out the most out of everyone here
Will test bident of thassa this week. If it is bad i'll revert to the second throne. Removed a cavern of souls because 1)not much counters in my meta 2)not having turn 1 island for mausoleum wanderer is annoying.
As for the latest tournament results, seems like death's shadow is here to stay, until the next bans at least. Not saying DS needs to be banned from MY perspective but knowing WoTC's managing of modern the avatar MIGHT get the axe if it keeps consistently putting up result. Anyways, those scrap trawlers and trinket mages + basilisk collar from the sideboard will have to do some work. Otherwize the matchup isn't terrible but isn't favorable either. You can approach it by racing, list my aggro list does, or grinding, Like Keenwa1's wurmcoil engine + trinket mage list and street mage's more midrange version. Not sure which strategy is best in that particular matchup.
Our combo matchup is decent, so not much worries seeing those decks winning. It would seem our taxes will do some heavy lifting in the upcoming meta. I will have to eventually get thorn of amethyst instead of my 2x orbs of warding in the sideboard, because they are looking quite good right now.
Not much pure control decks in the top tier is also good news. The main sweeper we need to beat right now is anger of the gods. Not sure what it means in term of deckbuilding/sideboarding but at least there aren't that many supreme verdicts around, which should make our mausoleum wanderers happy.
There is one card i want to try that D90Dennis14 suggested, and that i used to play a long time ago: vault skirge.
The card could enable even more explosive draws than mausoleum wanderer. The blue spirit is still pretty great, but i want to see the imp in action.
Will report later with this experiment.
Thopter spy network is interesting, but bident has a few advantages:
First it is an artifact, meaning it dodges the lodestone golem tax. Playing spy network with a golem out seems very difficult.
Bident can be cast off of our fast mana guys. We aren't always hitting our 4th land with this deck, Being able to cast it with our artificers is great.
These are the reasons why we can get away with plaing 4cc artifacts but not 4cc non-artifact.
Also a minor advantage bident has is the activated ability. Forcing the opponent to attack with his/her utility creatures can be good sometimes.
Finally, bident can draw multiple cards in one attack step. This is what makes the card snowball: you get more cards, drawing more attacker, etc.
Still not sure we need either of these cards but i'll try it and report back.
EDIT: back from trying stuff, went 2-1, stuff is bad.
won R1 vs tokens, R2 vs 8 rack, lost R3 0-2 vs jeskai nahiri.
Overall bident felt underwhelming and clunky. Vs decks we need to grind it is difficult to gain value from it in the late game. Would rather have second throne and get a chance a fast-clocking them.
Vault skirg felt worse than wanderer. Not a single game i prefered the imp. In one game vs jeskai, wanderer would have delayed anger by one turn, which might have given me a shot at winning. The advantage of imp is to run all 4 cavern, but the card isn't that good even vs draw-go, since they will counter non-vedalkens and keep removal for stuff that they can't counter. Still like 2x caverns though, but not more.
Will be reverting to my previous list for the time being.
Hey guys, picked up this deck on a whim last week after I saw Zac Elsik's tweet. I was not expecting to do well, but so far I'm 9/1 with the deck having only lost to Affinity. Here's where I'm at with my list and I'll explain the deviations between my list and the other ones.
As you can see, my main deck is basically identical. I started out with a 2/2 split between Etched Champion and Master of Etherium, but the former always felt bad in this deck. Either you don't have metalcraft, which means he's a vanilla 2/2, or you do have it, and you can't make him blue with Grand Architect. Easy swap, since Master of Etherium was always great, and this helps make most draws more powerful.
Another swap I made was to play a Hangarback Walker in the main over the second Throne of the God-Pharaoh. While the throne is a good card for pressuring, I felt that it wasn't always great, and I wanted to hedge for the Death's Shadow variants. Hangarback is great since it's an automatic two for one, and they struggle with flyers. This deck is able to produce 5/5 Walking Ballistas on the fourth turn, so this card is similarly powerful. The main downside compared to the other [X][X] is that he doesn't interact as well. But that's why it's a 4/1 split in favor of Walking Ballista.
Honestly, I won so many games by just flying over the opposition with Smuggler's Copter, Mausoleum Wanderer, Signal Pest and Blinkmoth Nexus. The fact that this deck plays 8 lord effects is great for this. And this brings me to the MVP from my sideboard. Aethersphere Harvester also flies, pressures planeswalkers really well (Copter/Havester + Ballista kills either Lilianas). The main reason for the inclusion was for a card to bring in for the lifegain, which blue lacks. This card won me a lot of games. Large flying lifelinkers are nothing to scoff at. It basically blocks every threat in the format other than Death's Shadow, since a single lord effect brings it to a 4/6.
And one final note, I know people probably see the Oboro, Palace in The Clouds as an anti choke card, but in the it's so much more. The fact that you can pick it up to loot away with Smuggler's Copter is not to be understated.
This deck really does showcase the power of Vehicles in modern, and I'm happy to say they're great!
Excellent write up bobbyleblanc and thanks for the contribution.
I have found Thorn of Amethyst to be amazing against unfair decks like Storm or Ad Nauseam or even against decks with many cheap spells like Delver or some Death Shadow variants. Did you try 2 at any point or did you have success with them? I found myself siding in this couple more-often-than-not and was quite pleased.
One concern I have with this deck is how to best handle hyper-aggro or tribal strats; decks that play a bunch of creatures quickly and can swarm the board. Notably: Elves, Merfolk, Affinity, Zoo, BW Tokens. Typically these matchups can be favorable if we have a reasonable draw + access to Walking Ballista. Otherwise, they can be difficult. Also decks like Eldrazi Tron and normal Tron are pains to deal with. Not sure how to best increase our winrate against these.
Match 1: GW Vizier/Devoted Druid 0-2
First game I mull away a hand of ballista, copter, copter, throne, Lodestone, landx2. Seemed too slow against an unknown opponent. I get comboed out on turn 3, unable to do anything. I side in pithing needle, Game 2 I mull away 1 land+epityr and an otherwise good hand. Again not sure if that was right. I don't really get going before I'm dead. I tutor for a shackles with trophy mage and cast it without quite enough mana to use it that turn. He combos for the win. One more turn and I'd have locked up the game with the vedelkan shackles.
I play him again for fun 2 times more, both of them very good interesting games and both of which I win, often on the back of shackles. A ballista on the board is hard for him to beat, even just sitting there at 1 counter. which I hadn't seen at all in the first two games. I think this match-up is actually pretty even or potentially even in our favor.
Match 2: Esper Control/Tempo
G1 he has endless removal for everything I play and then beats me down with a geist. Spell Queller is a beast since I run no removal at all. I also saw a spell snare this game, which ate an engineer.
G2 My hand is Land Land Epityr Golem, Mausoluem, Walker, land. I lead with epityr and find Cheif Engineer, Mausoleum, Land Land. I place them back Engineer, Land, Mausoleum, Land. Next turn I decide to slow roll the engineenr, my only enabler and play the mausoleum as some protection. The following turn I realize my mistake. I had thought I'd want that 4th land to eventually cast golem, but if I'd put them mausoleum next, I could have played it and had 3 power of wanderers up to counter something. Instead I draw the land, play out the engineer and it gets spell snared with the mana up to pay for a potential wanderer tax. The 2 1/1's trade with a geist. Next turns golem gets pathed and thats the game. I think if I'd done that differently, I might have had a chance at it.
Match 3: Bye
Match 4: Bring to lightScapeshift
Game 1 he is at 7 live with me and a strong board but casts madcap experiment for platinum empirion. I realize my only way out is a Ballista for 8 to kill it. 2 copters keep me finding gas, but I make another mistake and play my first ballista at 3, which eats a lightning bolt. 2nd one gets cryptic commanded. 3rd one lands but he finds a scapeshift and wins.
Game 2 I keep a slowish hand with only a etherium sculptor as an enabler, which gets sumarily bolted. My hand of copters and thrones doesn't do much before he scapeshifts for the win on time.
I had no idea what to be sideboarding here. I think I put in the sculptors and traded the epityrs for judges familiars just to try to be faster but really didn't know what I'd have wanted vs empirion even if I was better at the deck.
Things I've learned/ Questions for you all.:
Deck is super fun to play. and I'm sure there is a lot more tuning I could do. And some of the plays with hasted convoke/copter/architect are hard to figure out. More play experience is for sure in order.
I felt like my deck didn't show up for several games and never really got the explosive starts I've seen in solitare play. I think future versions will have less 3 drops and more Etherium Sculptors or 1 drops.
I'm tempted by some way to answer creatures. Do people play path or fatal push or something? Or even discard to take them out premptively?
What does one sideboard against scapeshift? Do I just need to be faster? Ghost quarters seemed irrelvant despite having multiples in play. He had plenty of basics of all the colors I might have tried to screw him out of.. Emepiron was rough.
Sword of light and shadow was excellent against an Esper control deck in testing during the day. That is definitely staying.
Never played a creature match to make Ensnaring bridge or daring thief good. But I never saw either of them anyway. I think Bridge may move to the sideboard. I want to see thief at least once before I give up on it completely.
Obviously this deck can't hit every corner case, but in a modo league I went against bogles twice. I think this is genuinely a fairly unwinnable matchup considering the way and style they usually win but is it one of those cases were you simply can't have a sideboard against every matchup and just have to accept some bad ones?
Hey guys, picked up this deck on a whim last week after I saw Zac Elsik's tweet. I was not expecting to do well, but so far I'm 9/1 with the deck having only lost to Affinity. Here's where I'm at with my list and I'll explain the deviations between my list and the other ones.
As you can see, my main deck is basically identical. I started out with a 2/2 split between Etched Champion and Master of Etherium, but the former always felt bad in this deck. Either you don't have metalcraft, which means he's a vanilla 2/2, or you do have it, and you can't make him blue with Grand Architect. Easy swap, since Master of Etherium was always great, and this helps make most draws more powerful.
Another swap I made was to play a Hangarback Walker in the main over the second Throne of the God-Pharaoh. While the throne is a good card for pressuring, I felt that it wasn't always great, and I wanted to hedge for the Death's Shadow variants. Hangarback is great since it's an automatic two for one, and they struggle with flyers. This deck is able to produce 5/5 Walking Ballistas on the fourth turn, so this card is similarly powerful. The main downside compared to the other [X][X] is that he doesn't interact as well. But that's why it's a 4/1 split in favor of Walking Ballista.
Honestly, I won so many games by just flying over the opposition with Smuggler's Copter, Mausoleum Wanderer, Signal Pest and Blinkmoth Nexus. The fact that this deck plays 8 lord effects is great for this. And this brings me to the MVP from my sideboard. Aethersphere Harvester also flies, pressures planeswalkers really well (Copter/Havester + Ballista kills either Lilianas). The main reason for the inclusion was for a card to bring in for the lifegain, which blue lacks. This card won me a lot of games. Large flying lifelinkers are nothing to scoff at. It basically blocks every threat in the format other than Death's Shadow, since a single lord effect brings it to a 4/6.
And one final note, I know people probably see the Oboro, Palace in The Clouds as an anti choke card, but in the it's so much more. The fact that you can pick it up to loot away with Smuggler's Copter is not to be understated.
This deck really does showcase the power of Vehicles in modern, and I'm happy to say they're great!
That's basically my list, with hangarback instead of throne number 2, so i think it looks good! Never understood the etched champions x2 instead of the the 3rd and 4th master either. Aethersphere harvester is a good idea, i like it!
Excellent write up bobbyleblanc and thanks for the contribution.
I have found Thorn of Amethyst to be amazing against unfair decks like Storm or Ad Nauseam or even against decks with many cheap spells like Delver or some Death Shadow variants. Did you try 2 at any point or did you have success with them? I found myself siding in this couple more-often-than-not and was quite pleased.
One concern I have with this deck is how to best handle hyper-aggro or tribal strats; decks that play a bunch of creatures quickly and can swarm the board. Notably: Elves, Merfolk, Affinity, Zoo, BW Tokens. Typically these matchups can be favorable if we have a reasonable draw + access to Walking Ballista. Otherwise, they can be difficult. Also decks like Eldrazi Tron and normal Tron are pains to deal with. Not sure how to best increase our winrate against these.
Tokens and affinity don't seem that bad, since we have some amount of flyers. Go wide decks are were ballista shines, like you said, having 2x trinket mage as extra ballistas is good for G2 and 3. Edlrazi tron isn't so bad either, i always bring in basilisk collar + 2x trinket mage from the board, which helps a lot. The only deck in your list i'm concerned about is merfolk, mainly because of our mostly islands land base. The matchup is often a race, so collar + trinket mages are good here too. Basically you bring collar + mage when you need to race or when ballista alone can't kill opposing big stuff.
Zac Elsik, I'm sure that Thorn of Amethyst is really good in this deck since Lodestone Golem was great every time I drew him. I honestly just don't own any currently. I'm looking to add one or two copies to the board, but I'll have to order online as they're sold out locally. Seems to me that slowing the aggressive decks down with this actually gives a lot of time to accomplish your game plan. I've found that a decent portion of the games I've won, the Lodestone Golem + Mausoleum Wanderer tax was what allowed the plan of flying over to be fast enough.
As for the hyper aggressive match ups you mention, the Aethersphere Harvesters help a lot, I definitely recommend giving them a shot! I've found that we're actually quicker than Eldrazi Tron most of the time, and the Basilisk Collars out of the board are primarily for this deck. You are right though, Walking Ballista is very important for winning against them.
Because of this, I was thinking of trying out some Trinket Mages actually. The cool part is, assuming you drew any Etherium Sculptor, Chief Engineer or Grand Architect, you can actually cast whichever hate card you tutor for right away. Unsure what I'd cut though.
One concern I have with this deck is how to best handle hyper-aggro or tribal strats; decks that play a bunch of creatures quickly and can swarm the board. Notably: Elves, Merfolk, Affinity, Zoo, BW Tokens. Typically these matchups can be favorable if we have a reasonable draw + access to Walking Ballista. Otherwise, they can be difficult. Also decks like Eldrazi Tron and normal Tron are pains to deal with. Not sure how to best increase our winrate against these.
Silent Arbiter maybe ? Ætherize is rather situational but might be worth trying as well.
One card I've toyed with is Thoughtcast. The tax effect from cards like Thorn and Lodestone get "negated" and its only one U. Would add a Darksteel Citadel or two for more consistency..
I don't think you want any none creature/artifact spells at all. The biggest value in this deck is the taxing on the opponent so the last thing you want to do is feel that yourself.
I don't think you want any none creature/artifact spells at all. The biggest value in this deck is the taxing on the opponent so the last thing you want to do is feel that yourself.
Specifically, why I mentioned Thoughtcast since it has affinity for artifacts...the very artifacts that tax your opponent are "negated"....which means it still has the potential to cost less than its default cmc.
Went 4-0 (officially 3-0-1) beating eldrazi and taxes, u/w spirits, ponza and esper control (we ID'd but played for fun). Very happy to win vs heavy control!
Currently 29-6 in matches, the deck still feels great and never gets old for me!
I have found Unified Will to be quite useful, as there are plenty of decks that don't play near enough creatures.
From all of the games I've played, I've known about your use of fountain and echoing truth, but I've not thought I needed it in any of my games. Maybe I'm missing something.
I went 3-1 tonight. I personally think sage is very underrated. Setting up your first 4 draws of the game is very nice while also having another blue creature for architect/engineer. Often I'd find the missing land I needed or am able to set up favorable looting with copter to bin cards I didn't want so I could dig deeper to gas. I put in the harvesters to try but never had the opportunity to cast them. The only change I'll likely make is going down to 1 sheets and adding 1 more island. Deck played very well and for my only loss to storm I was 1 turn too slow both games.
2-0 vs affinity-
Lost the die roll so I was on the draw both games. Balista single handily wins this match up. G1 opponent starts fast per usual but t1 sage sets me up to do the same t2. Opponent had no ravager/overseer so balista on 3 with my board being bigger at that point was enough to swing things back in my favor. G2 I keep a hand with 2 blinkmoth, 1 copter, 1 sage, 2 sculptors, 1 chief while opponent mulls to 5 keeping t1 mountain Opal memnite x2 ravager. I take hits for a couple turn drawing yet a third blinkmoth so on opponents t4 i crew my copter with a blinkmoth to block and loot hitting my blue source and killing his ravager because he couldn't go too all in on sacking and keeping less threats. He had 2 imps at this point so he put the counter on one of them. I spit out my hand and take another hit the next turn down to 7. Next turn I cast my trinket mage getting ballista but being greedy decided not to cast it because I can take the hit 1 more turn and have it get bigger. Opponent top decks thoughtsieze and takes my balista then I top deck balista and there is no coming back for him.
Out
4 golem
2 pest
In
2 trinket mage
2 harvester
1 needle
1 collar
2-0 vs ds jund-
Lost the roll again so I'm on the play. Newer player so I had to explain a lot of interactions. G1 I basically get 2 coppters and a pest swinging every turn for massive damage after he took 5 t1 just from himself. G2 he has a bunch of removal including 1 k command and surgical on sculptors. T3 loadstone sets him too far back and traverse/ds costs him 4 but then I remind him he has to pay the tax and he scoops to lethal on the next turn.
Out
2 masters
4 pest
1 throne
1 sage
In
1 relic
2 trawler
2 trinket mage
2 harvester
1 collar
0-2 vs storm-
Won the roll so on the play I t1 wanderer t2 sculptor gets remanded t3 sculptor copter then he storms off t3 even through wanderer, while I have loadstone for next turn. G2 I have a great start with sage into sculptor then t3 trinket mage getting cage. Opponent has t3 ritual into shatterstorm so that sucked. I then start beating down with dudes but he has bolt for my copter and once I get him to 3 he combos the next turn. With 5 mana 3 cards in hand he gifts at my end step getting baral, goblin, past, and morphose I give him the creatures because even 2 blockers want enough to live and then he had double ritual and manamorphose in hand so he won. He did suggest I swap piles but idk if it would have mattered. I saw no tax cards g2 and he he his sb cards too but I think it's winnable.
Out
2 master
4 pest
1 walker
In
2 relic
1 cage
2 mage
2 thorn
2-0 vs bant company-
Won the die roll g1 was fairly easy with t1 sage setting up my draws/loots got reflector maged twice but it didn't matter I just straight beat down. G2 I was just on the beatdown plan and once I got out loadstone he couldn't keep up. Masters were nice in this matchup (only one I really got to see them be really good).
Out
4 pest
1 throne
In
2 mage
2 harvester
1 collar
All in all I liked the deck, this was my first chance to play it in paper so there are a lot more things to keep track of where as online p/t is easy to see for combat math. I feel I very likely made a lot of mistakes but the deck just didntcare and got me there.
Before the event I played my buddies boggles deck and I think it's just in winnable for me lol. I went like 1-5 vs it.
I have found Unified Will to be quite useful, as there are plenty of decks that don't play near enough creatures.
From all of the games I've played, I've known about your use of fountain and echoing truth, but I've not thought I needed it in any of my games. Maybe I'm missing something.
Fountains are mostly for tron, eldrazi or regular G/x. Not sure it is worth bringing vs other decks for mana screwing, i never tried to do that. It is just a great card to have in these matchups, but it is kind of narrow. Can't think of anything better against those, that would have broader implication. Perhaps ceremonious rejection could be decent?
Echoing truth is just a good catch-all answer to problematic permanents, as well as a good way to get rid of tokens. A bounce spell is sometimes what we need to get that extra tempo or surprise the opponent. I like knowing that whatever crazy stuff i might face there's always good ol' truth to get me out of trouble. I tend to bring it in vs white decks a lot because i'm paranoid about stony silence. I know we can beat the card but truth has gotten me out of sticky situations, breaking combos, bouncing linvalas, etc.
Unified will seems flexible, but honestly i've been rather happy with my sideboard. I could try to squeeze some in, don't know what i'd cut, i'll give it some though. I don't have a ton of incentive to change anything in the 15, i find i have something for most stuff i face...
2-0 vs affinity
2-0 vs ds jund
0-2 vs storm
2-0 vs bant company
I'm a little concerned about the lands. 20 seems too few, not sure sage of epityr makes this okay. Only 12 lands for turn one sage/wanderer seems to few as well. I had to mull a bunch of times while on 13 islands + oboro...
Loss vs storm is unfortunate, the matchup i think is good, but they can win out of nowhere.
I had forgotten about Ceremonious Rejection, I want to give that a shot as Tron / Eldrazi are a bit difficult. Also Steel Sabotage is a card, which helps against those two matchups a bit as well as against Affinity and Lantern. It's also a defensive card, as it can always bounce one of your artifacts to protect it.
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Also, as I mentioned earlier Chief isn't good in multiples.
May i suggest you play the deck before making further suggestions? Your posts reveal a lack of understanding of how the deck functions. The lists played here have been tuned and tuned since a very long time. The deck seems counter-intuitive on paper but you have to play with it, or at least goldfish a bit, to fully understand how it works. Otherwize you can keep suggesting cards that were tested years ago and failed to perform, but this is going nowhere. Most of what you suggest has been tried and proven bad. You can go back pages in this thread and read all about it. Or you can try it for yourself and come to the same conclusion, do whatever you want.
Edit: also i've come to the conclusion that phyrexian metamorph isn't good anymore in the aggro version. It used to be great before kaladesh because you could copy myr superion, which was an awesome target. As the deck stands right now, there is no more need for the shapeshifter.
4 signal pest
4 mausoleum wanderer
4 etherium sculptor
4 chief engineer
4 walking ballista
4 grand architect
4 master of etherium
artifacts : 6
4 smuggler's copter
1 throne of the god-pharaoh
1 bident of thassa
lands : 22
4 blinkmoth nexus
2 cavern of souls
1 oboro, palace in the clouds
15 island
2 echoing truth
2 orbs of warding
2 quicksilver fountain
2 trinket mage
2 scrap trawler
2 pithing needle
1 relic of progenitus
1 grafdigger's cage
1 basilisk collar
Will test bident of thassa this week. If it is bad i'll revert to the second throne. Removed a cavern of souls because 1)not much counters in my meta 2)not having turn 1 island for mausoleum wanderer is annoying.
As for the latest tournament results, seems like death's shadow is here to stay, until the next bans at least. Not saying DS needs to be banned from MY perspective but knowing WoTC's managing of modern the avatar MIGHT get the axe if it keeps consistently putting up result. Anyways, those scrap trawlers and trinket mages + basilisk collar from the sideboard will have to do some work. Otherwize the matchup isn't terrible but isn't favorable either. You can approach it by racing, list my aggro list does, or grinding, Like Keenwa1's wurmcoil engine + trinket mage list and street mage's more midrange version. Not sure which strategy is best in that particular matchup.
Our combo matchup is decent, so not much worries seeing those decks winning. It would seem our taxes will do some heavy lifting in the upcoming meta. I will have to eventually get thorn of amethyst instead of my 2x orbs of warding in the sideboard, because they are looking quite good right now.
Not much pure control decks in the top tier is also good news. The main sweeper we need to beat right now is anger of the gods. Not sure what it means in term of deckbuilding/sideboarding but at least there aren't that many supreme verdicts around, which should make our mausoleum wanderers happy.
The card could enable even more explosive draws than mausoleum wanderer. The blue spirit is still pretty great, but i want to see the imp in action.
Will report later with this experiment.
(though it isn't an artifact)
Another cheaper option is Military Intelligence and there is also Padeem, Consul of Innovation.
First it is an artifact, meaning it dodges the lodestone golem tax. Playing spy network with a golem out seems very difficult.
Bident can be cast off of our fast mana guys. We aren't always hitting our 4th land with this deck, Being able to cast it with our artificers is great.
These are the reasons why we can get away with plaing 4cc artifacts but not 4cc non-artifact.
Also a minor advantage bident has is the activated ability. Forcing the opponent to attack with his/her utility creatures can be good sometimes.
Finally, bident can draw multiple cards in one attack step. This is what makes the card snowball: you get more cards, drawing more attacker, etc.
Still not sure we need either of these cards but i'll try it and report back.
EDIT: back from trying stuff, went 2-1, stuff is bad.
won R1 vs tokens, R2 vs 8 rack, lost R3 0-2 vs jeskai nahiri.
Overall bident felt underwhelming and clunky. Vs decks we need to grind it is difficult to gain value from it in the late game. Would rather have second throne and get a chance a fast-clocking them.
Vault skirg felt worse than wanderer. Not a single game i prefered the imp. In one game vs jeskai, wanderer would have delayed anger by one turn, which might have given me a shot at winning. The advantage of imp is to run all 4 cavern, but the card isn't that good even vs draw-go, since they will counter non-vedalkens and keep removal for stuff that they can't counter. Still like 2x caverns though, but not more.
Will be reverting to my previous list for the time being.
4 Signal Pest
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Etherium Sculptor
4 Chief Engineer
4 Walking Ballista
1 Hangarback Walker
4 Grand Architect
4 Master of Etherium
Artifacts : 5
4 Smuggler's Copter
1 Throne of The God-Pharaoh
Lands : 22
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Oboro, Palace in The Clouds
16 Island
2 Scrap Trawler
2 Unified Will
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Aethersphere Harvester
1 Hangarback Walker
2 Basilisk Collar
1 Thorn of Amethyst
As you can see, my main deck is basically identical. I started out with a 2/2 split between Etched Champion and Master of Etherium, but the former always felt bad in this deck. Either you don't have metalcraft, which means he's a vanilla 2/2, or you do have it, and you can't make him blue with Grand Architect. Easy swap, since Master of Etherium was always great, and this helps make most draws more powerful.
Another swap I made was to play a Hangarback Walker in the main over the second Throne of the God-Pharaoh. While the throne is a good card for pressuring, I felt that it wasn't always great, and I wanted to hedge for the Death's Shadow variants. Hangarback is great since it's an automatic two for one, and they struggle with flyers. This deck is able to produce 5/5 Walking Ballistas on the fourth turn, so this card is similarly powerful. The main downside compared to the other [X][X] is that he doesn't interact as well. But that's why it's a 4/1 split in favor of Walking Ballista.
Honestly, I won so many games by just flying over the opposition with Smuggler's Copter, Mausoleum Wanderer, Signal Pest and Blinkmoth Nexus. The fact that this deck plays 8 lord effects is great for this. And this brings me to the MVP from my sideboard. Aethersphere Harvester also flies, pressures planeswalkers really well (Copter/Havester + Ballista kills either Lilianas). The main reason for the inclusion was for a card to bring in for the lifegain, which blue lacks. This card won me a lot of games. Large flying lifelinkers are nothing to scoff at. It basically blocks every threat in the format other than Death's Shadow, since a single lord effect brings it to a 4/6.
Again, another Hangarback Walker in the board for the grindy matchups. It's unreal good with Master of Etherium.
And one final note, I know people probably see the Oboro, Palace in The Clouds as an anti choke card, but in the it's so much more. The fact that you can pick it up to loot away with Smuggler's Copter is not to be understated.
This deck really does showcase the power of Vehicles in modern, and I'm happy to say they're great!
I have found Thorn of Amethyst to be amazing against unfair decks like Storm or Ad Nauseam or even against decks with many cheap spells like Delver or some Death Shadow variants. Did you try 2 at any point or did you have success with them? I found myself siding in this couple more-often-than-not and was quite pleased.
Aethersphere Harvester does look bonkers. I'll have to give that a shot.
One concern I have with this deck is how to best handle hyper-aggro or tribal strats; decks that play a bunch of creatures quickly and can swarm the board. Notably: Elves, Merfolk, Affinity, Zoo, BW Tokens. Typically these matchups can be favorable if we have a reasonable draw + access to Walking Ballista. Otherwise, they can be difficult. Also decks like Eldrazi Tron and normal Tron are pains to deal with. Not sure how to best increase our winrate against these.
4 Sage of Epityr
4 Chief Engineer
4 Grand Architect
1 Etherium Sculputor
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Smugglers Copter
2 Throne of the God-Pharaoh
3 Walking Ballista
1 Hangarback walker
1 Trinket Mage
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Daring Thief
22 lands
4 fetches
2 buried ruins
1 Inventors Fair
1 Tolaria West
3 Ghost Quarter
11 Islands
Sideboard
1 pithing needle
1 vedelken shackles
1 Trinket MAge
1 Trophy Mage
3 Etherium Sculptor
3 judge's familiar
1 Ghost quarter
Match 1: GW Vizier/Devoted Druid 0-2
First game I mull away a hand of ballista, copter, copter, throne, Lodestone, landx2. Seemed too slow against an unknown opponent. I get comboed out on turn 3, unable to do anything. I side in pithing needle, Game 2 I mull away 1 land+epityr and an otherwise good hand. Again not sure if that was right. I don't really get going before I'm dead. I tutor for a shackles with trophy mage and cast it without quite enough mana to use it that turn. He combos for the win. One more turn and I'd have locked up the game with the vedelkan shackles.
I play him again for fun 2 times more, both of them very good interesting games and both of which I win, often on the back of shackles. A ballista on the board is hard for him to beat, even just sitting there at 1 counter. which I hadn't seen at all in the first two games. I think this match-up is actually pretty even or potentially even in our favor.
Match 2: Esper Control/Tempo
G1 he has endless removal for everything I play and then beats me down with a geist. Spell Queller is a beast since I run no removal at all. I also saw a spell snare this game, which ate an engineer.
G2 My hand is Land Land Epityr Golem, Mausoluem, Walker, land. I lead with epityr and find Cheif Engineer, Mausoleum, Land Land. I place them back Engineer, Land, Mausoleum, Land. Next turn I decide to slow roll the engineenr, my only enabler and play the mausoleum as some protection. The following turn I realize my mistake. I had thought I'd want that 4th land to eventually cast golem, but if I'd put them mausoleum next, I could have played it and had 3 power of wanderers up to counter something. Instead I draw the land, play out the engineer and it gets spell snared with the mana up to pay for a potential wanderer tax. The 2 1/1's trade with a geist. Next turns golem gets pathed and thats the game. I think if I'd done that differently, I might have had a chance at it.
Match 3: Bye
Match 4: Bring to light Scapeshift
Game 1 he is at 7 live with me and a strong board but casts madcap experiment for platinum empirion. I realize my only way out is a Ballista for 8 to kill it. 2 copters keep me finding gas, but I make another mistake and play my first ballista at 3, which eats a lightning bolt. 2nd one gets cryptic commanded. 3rd one lands but he finds a scapeshift and wins.
Game 2 I keep a slowish hand with only a etherium sculptor as an enabler, which gets sumarily bolted. My hand of copters and thrones doesn't do much before he scapeshifts for the win on time.
I had no idea what to be sideboarding here. I think I put in the sculptors and traded the epityrs for judges familiars just to try to be faster but really didn't know what I'd have wanted vs empirion even if I was better at the deck.
Things I've learned/ Questions for you all.:
That's basically my list, with hangarback instead of throne number 2, so i think it looks good! Never understood the etched champions x2 instead of the the 3rd and 4th master either. Aethersphere harvester is a good idea, i like it!
Tokens and affinity don't seem that bad, since we have some amount of flyers. Go wide decks are were ballista shines, like you said, having 2x trinket mage as extra ballistas is good for G2 and 3. Edlrazi tron isn't so bad either, i always bring in basilisk collar + 2x trinket mage from the board, which helps a lot. The only deck in your list i'm concerned about is merfolk, mainly because of our mostly islands land base. The matchup is often a race, so collar + trinket mages are good here too. Basically you bring collar + mage when you need to race or when ballista alone can't kill opposing big stuff.
As for the hyper aggressive match ups you mention, the Aethersphere Harvesters help a lot, I definitely recommend giving them a shot! I've found that we're actually quicker than Eldrazi Tron most of the time, and the Basilisk Collars out of the board are primarily for this deck. You are right though, Walking Ballista is very important for winning against them.
Because of this, I was thinking of trying out some Trinket Mages actually. The cool part is, assuming you drew any Etherium Sculptor,
Chief Engineer or Grand Architect, you can actually cast whichever hate card you tutor for right away. Unsure what I'd cut though.
Silent Arbiter maybe ?
Ætherize is rather situational but might be worth trying as well.
Running Vault Skirge as the 1-drop can also be good for the lifelink especially when pumped with Master of Etherium/Signal Pest or Cranial Plating
(I run it over Throne).
Do you think that Thorn of Amethyst is a better option against combo decks than Unified Will ?
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
4 signal pest
4 mausoleum wanderer
4 etherium sculptor
4 chief engineer
4 walking ballista
4 grand architect
4 master of etherium
artifacts : 6
4 smuggler's copter
2 throne of the god-pharaoh
lands : 22
4 blinkmoth nexus
2 cavern of souls
1 oboro, palace in the clouds
15 island
2 echoing truth
2 trinket mage
2 scrap trawler
2 quicksilver fountain
2 thorn of amethyst
2 pithing needle
1 relic of progenitus
1 grafdigger's cage
1 basilisk collar
Went 4-0 (officially 3-0-1) beating eldrazi and taxes, u/w spirits, ponza and esper control (we ID'd but played for fun). Very happy to win vs heavy control!
Currently 29-6 in matches, the deck still feels great and never gets old for me!
I have found Unified Will to be quite useful, as there are plenty of decks that don't play near enough creatures.
From all of the games I've played, I've known about your use of fountain and echoing truth, but I've not thought I needed it in any of my games. Maybe I'm missing something.
I'm also gonna give Aethersphere Harvester a go.
4 Smuggler's Copter
1 Throne of the God-Pharaoh
Artifact Creature (20)
4 Etherium Sculptor
2 Hangarback Walker
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Master of Etherium
4 Signal Pest
4 Walking Ballista
4 Chief Engineer
4 Grand Architect
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
3 Sage of Epityr
Land (20)
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
2 Scrying Sheets
11 Snow-Covered Island
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
2 Quicksilver Fountain
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Scrap Trawler
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Trinket Mage
2-0 vs affinity-
Lost the die roll so I was on the draw both games. Balista single handily wins this match up. G1 opponent starts fast per usual but t1 sage sets me up to do the same t2. Opponent had no ravager/overseer so balista on 3 with my board being bigger at that point was enough to swing things back in my favor. G2 I keep a hand with 2 blinkmoth, 1 copter, 1 sage, 2 sculptors, 1 chief while opponent mulls to 5 keeping t1 mountain Opal memnite x2 ravager. I take hits for a couple turn drawing yet a third blinkmoth so on opponents t4 i crew my copter with a blinkmoth to block and loot hitting my blue source and killing his ravager because he couldn't go too all in on sacking and keeping less threats. He had 2 imps at this point so he put the counter on one of them. I spit out my hand and take another hit the next turn down to 7. Next turn I cast my trinket mage getting ballista but being greedy decided not to cast it because I can take the hit 1 more turn and have it get bigger. Opponent top decks thoughtsieze and takes my balista then I top deck balista and there is no coming back for him.
Out
4 golem
2 pest
In
2 trinket mage
2 harvester
1 needle
1 collar
2-0 vs ds jund-
Lost the roll again so I'm on the play. Newer player so I had to explain a lot of interactions. G1 I basically get 2 coppters and a pest swinging every turn for massive damage after he took 5 t1 just from himself. G2 he has a bunch of removal including 1 k command and surgical on sculptors. T3 loadstone sets him too far back and traverse/ds costs him 4 but then I remind him he has to pay the tax and he scoops to lethal on the next turn.
Out
2 masters
4 pest
1 throne
1 sage
In
1 relic
2 trawler
2 trinket mage
2 harvester
1 collar
0-2 vs storm-
Won the roll so on the play I t1 wanderer t2 sculptor gets remanded t3 sculptor copter then he storms off t3 even through wanderer, while I have loadstone for next turn. G2 I have a great start with sage into sculptor then t3 trinket mage getting cage. Opponent has t3 ritual into shatterstorm so that sucked. I then start beating down with dudes but he has bolt for my copter and once I get him to 3 he combos the next turn. With 5 mana 3 cards in hand he gifts at my end step getting baral, goblin, past, and morphose I give him the creatures because even 2 blockers want enough to live and then he had double ritual and manamorphose in hand so he won. He did suggest I swap piles but idk if it would have mattered. I saw no tax cards g2 and he he his sb cards too but I think it's winnable.
Out
2 master
4 pest
1 walker
In
2 relic
1 cage
2 mage
2 thorn
2-0 vs bant company-
Won the die roll g1 was fairly easy with t1 sage setting up my draws/loots got reflector maged twice but it didn't matter I just straight beat down. G2 I was just on the beatdown plan and once I got out loadstone he couldn't keep up. Masters were nice in this matchup (only one I really got to see them be really good).
Out
4 pest
1 throne
In
2 mage
2 harvester
1 collar
All in all I liked the deck, this was my first chance to play it in paper so there are a lot more things to keep track of where as online p/t is easy to see for combat math. I feel I very likely made a lot of mistakes but the deck just didntcare and got me there.
Before the event I played my buddies boggles deck and I think it's just in winnable for me lol. I went like 1-5 vs it.
Fountains are mostly for tron, eldrazi or regular G/x. Not sure it is worth bringing vs other decks for mana screwing, i never tried to do that. It is just a great card to have in these matchups, but it is kind of narrow. Can't think of anything better against those, that would have broader implication. Perhaps ceremonious rejection could be decent?
Echoing truth is just a good catch-all answer to problematic permanents, as well as a good way to get rid of tokens. A bounce spell is sometimes what we need to get that extra tempo or surprise the opponent. I like knowing that whatever crazy stuff i might face there's always good ol' truth to get me out of trouble. I tend to bring it in vs white decks a lot because i'm paranoid about stony silence. I know we can beat the card but truth has gotten me out of sticky situations, breaking combos, bouncing linvalas, etc.
Unified will seems flexible, but honestly i've been rather happy with my sideboard. I could try to squeeze some in, don't know what i'd cut, i'll give it some though. I don't have a ton of incentive to change anything in the 15, i find i have something for most stuff i face...
I'm a little concerned about the lands. 20 seems too few, not sure sage of epityr makes this okay. Only 12 lands for turn one sage/wanderer seems to few as well. I had to mull a bunch of times while on 13 islands + oboro...
Loss vs storm is unfortunate, the matchup i think is good, but they can win out of nowhere.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant