...I've been thinking about adding a third shackles and turning the cavern into the 16th island. The card is great and i don't have other ways to control opposing creatures. Cavern hasn't been that good, i'm not that worried about countermagic in general.
Yea, I had the Cavern and just decided to put a Buried Ruin in its place. It's my flex spot in terms of lands. I often go back and forth between Phyrexia's Core and some of the other lands. Core maybe something to consider with Hangarback Walker. Actually 2x Wurmcoil, 2x Walker and 2x Solemn Simulacrum would make me consider 2x Core. Value town galore lol.
Shackles is great and is one of the cards I feel differentiate this deck from simply being beatdown.
It offers more dimension and provides interaction, not sure if you'd want a 3rd doe; maybe instead add the Brittle Effigy to the main since its also a 5 mana initially investment, or even Æther Spellbomb if you are looking for another way to deal with creatures. I've passed on those cards since I run Murderous Cut main, its been good but I do wonder if I should just make them Disfigure. I could potential steal a "larger" creature with the Shackles/Disfigure interaction.
Sidenote: I was unsure about the rules regarding the Sword of Light and Shadow "recursion" trigger after a another creature has be dealt lethal damage during combat. Turns out if I alpha strike and my equipted creature deals combat damage, I can recur another creature dealt lethal damage and sent to the graveyard that combat phase.
This happened to me in a game against WRG aggro. I attacked with a Familiar, Solemn and a Superion(equipted w/Sword of L&S). The Superion was unblocked and the Solemn received lethal damage. After damage was dealt and everything settled I was able to return the Solemn to my hand off of the L&S trigger. On his turn he also did an alpha strike that could've potentially won him the game had I not had Solemn Simulacrum in hand and Æther Vial on 4 to "flash" him in as a blocker.
There seems to be a sort of artifact sub-theme to origins, with thopters and all. My favorite yet is thopter spy network. I really love the card and i'd love to have such an effect instead of bident of thassa but i'm kind of dissapointed it is an enchantment rather than an artifact, making it unplayable.
There seems to be a sort of artifact sub-theme to origins, with thopters and all. My favorite yet is thopter spy network. I really love the card and i'd love to have such an effect instead of bident of thassa but i'm kind of dissapointed it is an enchantment rather than an artifact, making it unplayable.
I've been playing the deck a lot lately and managed to win a couple of 8-mans.
The more I play with the deck, the more I realize that red probably has the best sideboard options for us. It's got Pyroclasm and Grim Lavamancer against Elves and Affinity and it has Blood Moon against Tron. Ratchet Bomb and EE are just not good enough in my experience, they are too slow, they rarely clean up the mess (because of different CMC) and they hit us too. Pyroclasm (and I guess you could run Drown in Sorrow in black, though might be tough on the mana) cleans up everything (except against Merfolk) and it only really hits our 1-drops.
If I had the money for Scalding Tarns and Blood Moons right now, I'd probably try something like this:
I've been playing the deck a lot lately and managed to win a couple of 8-mans.
The more I play with the deck, the more I realize that red probably has the best sideboard options for us. It's got Pyroclasm and Grim Lavamancer against Elves and Affinity and it has Blood Moon against Tron. Ratchet Bomb and EE are just not good enough in my experience, they are too slow, they rarely clean up the mess (because of different CMC) and they hit us too. Pyroclasm (and I guess you could run Drown in Sorrow in black, though might be tough on the mana) cleans up everything (except against Merfolk) and it only really hits our 1-drops.
If I had the money for Scalding Tarns and Blood Moons right now, I'd probably try something like this:
Definitely get your yearning for some mass removal options, but I think Pyroclasm is just too narrow. Why not just go with good ole Vapor Snag and Dismember? Or if elves is really a problem, Hibernation can be really good. Against Affinty,Hurkyl's Recall can be a blow out.
Blood Moon is nice, but way too $$$. Against Tron (a matchup I think I'm willing to just accept as poor), I try to Ghost Quarter then I have 2x Surgical Extraction I bring in from the sideboard.
Pyroclasm seems really good right now though. Outside of Affinity and Elves it's also good against Delver. I don't think that's narrow unless we go for Wrath effects but that's not really an option. EDIT: Hibernation and Recall seem waay more narrow. I have 3 Hibernations in my SB right now and I hate how I can't side them in against Affinity (since I'm mostly a huge favorite against green decks anyway). It's not about why I don't just play Snag + Dismember, I play Path in the side right now, it's just about how we can make the deck the best it can be.
Not sure I like Ghirapur (tapping down something like a Superion and a Lodestone to deal 1 doesn't seem that impactful). Would you play Bolt main, or just in the side? Who would you bring it in against?
Personnally i haven't felt the need to splash a second color at all, but thats just me. The latest version i've been testing replaces bident of thassa with sword of light and shadow. I figured i'd rather raise dead something than draw random cards. I haven't drawn it yet but it would have been very good in many games so i'm considering playing 2 copies.
Another thing i'm considering is going all in with 4x cavern of souls and change the shackles to something else. Even though it rarely occurs i hate losing to choke and cavern protects us vs this and vs counterspells. I'm still not convinced it is worth taking out the shackles because the card has been better than excellent. Shackles also gets hit by stony silence when the opponent sides it in...
minamo and oboro are kind of a nonbo with vedalken shackles. I guess if i gave up on shackles for caverns i'd maybe play them again. 3 shackles is fine, why would that be a problem? i don't have any other removal and i don't play cantrips to dig for them. I do want to see them often. Getting 2 isn't that bad, especially if the first gets shattered by a kolaghan's command or abrupt decay or qasali pridemage or sideboard cards, etc.
minamo and oboro are kind of a nonbo with vedalken shackles. I guess if i gave up on shackles for caverns i'd maybe play them again. 3 shackles is fine, why would that be a problem? i don't have any other removal and i don't play cantrips to dig for them. I do want to see them often. Getting 2 isn't that bad, especially if the first gets shattered by a kolaghan's command or abrupt decay or qasali pridemage or sideboard cards, etc.
Typically having 2-3 islands out for shackles is good enough.
Sometimes I can get it to 4 to steal a Tasigur, but I don't think Minamo and Oboro will be that much of a nonbo.
I've thought of the combo, but for another deck
Truth is we don't want to sacrifice any of our artifacts, they each are way too valuable. We can't one shot our opponent or have spare mana rocks to sac, like affinity does.
But the two cards together i've though of playing in my disciple of the vault deck, with lots of eggs to be sacced for value.
And before you ask yes i love artifacts
So I'm realizing that Murderous Cut is my only black spell. Wondering if its better to replace it with Rite of Undoing and rely on my board presence and Shackles against creatures. Its also better to bounce an opposing Wurmcoil than Murderous Cut it. Honestly I'd rather play Vapor Snag, but I want to play around the taxing aspects of our deck like Golem and Thorn.
Removing the black card allows me to play one more basic island and allows for the inclusion of Phyrexia's Core. A card i think its definitely needed for Hangarback Walker and also Wurmcoil against Path to Exile. I still want to play the fetches since they help delve, but also help with Sage of Epityr, a card that has really been good in filtering when we don't have much card draw options.
Also to force people to attack so that I can block with Walker, I may consider adding the Bident of Thassa in again. Either way, still a work in progress.
Sidenote: Removing black also allows me to free up the Deltas for my Tezzeret deck ;-) lol.
Edit: Didnt realize I had to bounce aswell with undoing. Back to cut lol.
So choke has been a problem for me, one of the rare sideboard cards that hurt me a lot. I think i've found a solution for those: sword of feast and famine. Obviously you'll always want to side it in vs green decks and if the do have choke it untaps all our lands! I'm going to try it out. I've been enjoying sword of light and shadow and i'll add sword of fire and ice instead of the 3rd shackles, i think swords are really good in this deck.
EDIT: ok so i've finally opted for feast and famine main. The problem with fire and ice is that pro blue prevent architect pump, and the protections of fire and ice are somewhat less relevant. I've added back a single cavern, it is a compromise of choke/counter protection vs vedalken shackles consistency. I think 15 islands should be good enough. My new list:
List looks solid. Another way to look at it may be that Choke is 95% of the time a sided in card. So maybe having some effects like Echoing Truth in the sideboard can help. It's also not a dead card against tokens, Stony Silence etc. Negate may also be another option as well since bouncing is a temporary solution.
Thanks, i really like the swords, they're awesome, got another 4-0 at my store today thanks partly to them :). I've had some number of echoing truth in my sideboard in the past. I could probably shave a hibernation for one. Lately i haven't needed them, but I'll keep one in because they've won me some games some time ago...
On a side note i'm really enjoying the two phyrexian metamorphs in the side. I find the best way of dealing with great creatures from my opponent is having one of my own. I side them in vs any midrange deck where all the creatures they play are top quality. It is also great vs opposing batterskull, having one on my field is super great, as mine will likely end up equipped on something bigger than theirs. Last monday i beat a abzan midrange deck with siege rhino, i was a rhino fest, he plays one, i copy it, again and again but with signal pest i could attack profitably.
The other card i bring vs midrange/control is monastery siege. The card has been great, and i've used both modes and they are both useful. The extra draw is good when you need to catch up and the taxing mode is good when you need to consolidate your lead. Mindlock orb is another sideboard card that has done a lot of work, last monday i faced two tooth and nail decks in a row, I beat them both partly because of this amazing piece of cardboard
Hey im think about making this deck, would you guys say its viable? and might consider writing a primer for this deck, but will need some help if people are still interested
i really like the swords in this deck, and can difffenently see them being usefull
If by viable you mean taking it to a larger tournament and do well with it, I don't think it is. It's too inconsistent and loses to itself a lot. But I've won a bunch of 8-mans with it online and Ace1 and StreetMage have won some local tournaments with it. So it can definitely tangle with the big guns.
Writing a primer would be cool though. 10 pages in it has probably come to that point. Be careful with what you write though. What looks good on paper and in your mind is very different from how it typically plays out. This is of course always true, but especially with this deck. Ideally you've done some play testing yourself or Ace and StreetMage can make some bigger contributions (I'm too lazy myself )
@halikiu, welcome, I would definitely help support a primer.
As far as viability I think Badabing summed it up. But its one of the few decks that can really push Vedalken Shackles and I think Grand Architect in general. New cards like Hangarback Walker are very promising and I will be testing it today at my LGS modern weekly tourney.
I think one of the decks inherent weakness comes in having to carefully build around Lodestone Golem. It limits the type of non-artifact cards you want to be running. I've tried to solve this with using fetchlands and cards with the delve mechanic i.e Murderous Cut and Logic Knot. Mishra's Bauble serves a dual role in being delve food/replacing itself. Also, Æther Vial is a way to get non-artifact creatures around Lodestone tax and even equally important, is an additional way to cheat in Myr Superion. So why run Golem you ask, well hes a beater and he messes up math for non-artifact decks, I've won many games just with only one in play (multiples add). I've gone down to 3 and use Phyrexian Metamorph as the potential 4th.
Card draw is another aspect I think we need to improve. Again, Golem makes it difficult to just run Thirst for Knowledge etc, although I think Ace1 was able to pull it off at one point. To solve this I run Sage of Epityr in combination with fetchlands and Mishra's Bauble to give me card selection/pseudo-ponder effect. Sage serves the dual purpose of card selection and being a blue creature for Grand Architect. Vialing in a Sage during your upkeep beofre your draw is very good too in trying to get the right pieces.
Sword of L&S is spectacular, I'm thinking of running the Sword of Feast and Famine in the side as Ace has some interesting interactions with it against Choke and I think its just good in general against goyfs and tasigurs.
Anyway, went into a rant lol, but if you are really serious about a primer or even just want to join the team in trying to make this a competitive deck, you are certainly more than welcome!
Sidenote: One of the things I would try to stray away from is that this is well differentiated from the Pila-Pala/Heartless Summoning decks.
@halikiu: i'd love a primer. As for viability the main problem is variance. The decks works most of the times and has a chance to win against all the top decks but you have to mulligan a lot. This is because we need to draw enablers + threats or cards that turn enablers into threats (architect, signal pest and swords).
In a bigger tournaments with a lot of rounds this problem might come up a few times. Deciding when to keep or mulligan is a crucial part of playing this deck, so if you don't like mulliganing i would not recommend this deck.
We also don't have library manipulation (serum visions), which would probably decrease the number of mulligans and make the deck more consistent. Adding those poses the problem of what to take out. All the cards in the deck are useful/powerful/synergistic.
@halikiu: i'd love a primer. As for viability the main problem is variance. The decks works most of the times and has a chance to win against all the top decks but you have to mulligan a lot...
Agree with this as well. Hopefully the new proposed mulligan rule can help if becomes official.
Another card that i think might benefit this deck is crystal shard. I found a playset while searching my uncommons for another deck and i thought maybe it is worth testing? It is yet another tax effect and is easy to cast and activate the same turn. Also i find the main way i lose games, aside from bad keeps, is the opponent overloading on removal. Crystal shard being able to bounce and save our guys from removal turn after turn might be pretty good? Also if it dies it isn't as much a blowout as when shackles dies. I'm a little bitter on kolaghan's command's popularity, it seems these days decks can have main deck hate for artifacts which is annoying. Sure command can still hit shard but that is fine i guess...
Went 3-1 tonight. Actually the one loss was a game that went to five turns but I decided to give it to my opponent since he was ahead and I usually beat him anyway ;-).
Round 1, GW Hatebears (2-0):
Match 1: Hangarback Walker with 1 counter, find a sword of L&S, equip the walker and contiunue to pump up to 3, I also have Lodestone, Grand Architect and Spellskite in play. Opponent has Scavenging Ooze, 2 Loxodon Smiters and a Noble Hierarch in play. We draw go for a few more turns, he plays Collected Company to find Qasali Pridemage and an Aven Mindscensor. We trade for a while but he can't keep up with sword of L&S. I finally block with Walker to get 3 thopters, Equipt one of them with Batterskull and Sword of L&S then start the beats to win.
Match 2: Get out an early Superion which he Paths, game proceeds, then I find a Walker which I cast for 10 to get 5 counters on him; my board consist of Lodestone, 2 Architects and a Sage. I cast a Shackles which later finds Pridemage for. We trade back and forth, but I overwhelm the board and win.
Round 2, Eternal Command(1-2):
Match 1: This deck plays Eternal Witness, Aether Vial and Cryptic Command. I kept a slow hand and he was able to assemble the lock with those 3 cards tapping my team each turn, then attacking. Also he plays Glissa, the Traitor main which was hard to attack through.
Match 2: I keep a fast hand and get Superion, Architect and Lodestone out all in quick succession, he couldn't keep up.
Match 3: This game I was able to get Thorn out and he was low on mana. I got Superion out and started bashing, once he got Aether Vial to 3 he Vialed in Glissa, the Traitor to block my Superion (first strike, deathtouch is brutal). Thorn and his lack of mana keeps him in check and we just draw go as his Glissa and Goyf keeps my creatures at bay. We continue back and forth till we get to turns, his board is getting bigger and I have to keep blocking, finally we get to turn 5, his last attack wasn't lethal, but I give him the match since he was ahead he's done it for me in the past.
Round 3, UR Twin (2-1):
Match 1: Aether Vial, then Hangarback Walker with 1 counter next turn. I Vial in a Spellskite next turn and kill a Pestermite on his end with Murderous Cut. Gradually get Walker to 3 counters. Spellskite keeps me safe till I can get Lodestone and Superion out. Gradually just beatdown.
Match 2: Ancient Grudges my Spellskite to Pestermite Twin on next turn.
Match 3: Aether Vial, then Sage, Judge, Grand Architect into Lodestone following Turns. Attack and surprise vial in another Grand Architect to get in for 12 some damage turn 4 or 5 I think. Was his turn and he didnt find the Twin, I win next turn.
Round 4, Grixis Twin (2-0):
Match 1: Aether Vial into 2 Spellskites the following turns, get Aether Vial up to 6 counters which allows me to Vial in 2 Wurmcoil Engines. He couldn't keep up.
Match 2: Aether Vial, into Superion on following turns holding Spellskite in hand and leaving Vial on two. Game goes back and forth, he terminates the Superion and I Surgical Extract his Terminates. I get Lodestone out and have a board of blue creatures along with Spellskite. Game goes long till I can naturally cast Wurmcoil Engine vs his Keranos. He continues to draw lands off Keranos and extra cards. I have 2 Blinkmoths so I get in for beats since he was able to Cryptic, then Snap Cryptic, Cryptic for the last 3 turns on my team. Eventually I get there.
My memory is really off but I think I got the jist of the matches. MVP of the night is definitely SPELLSKITE! I don't think we can afford not to run 2x Spellskite minimum in the main. Hangarback Walker was also pretty good as hes usually a creature your opponents underestimate as he grows and grows. I like him and will continue to test with him.
Nice report, i really like that people in your store hands out wins instead of draws, its not like people at my store are bad or anything but nobody ever does that where i play.
I'm glad walker works, i just love the creature and getting a threat that is resilient and grindy is pretty nice, i might try some for myself. I just wish I had preordered some, they are like 10$ a piece now I never though it would go up that fast!
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Shackles is great and is one of the cards I feel differentiate this deck from simply being beatdown.
It offers more dimension and provides interaction, not sure if you'd want a 3rd doe; maybe instead add the Brittle Effigy to the main since its also a 5 mana initially investment, or even Æther Spellbomb if you are looking for another way to deal with creatures. I've passed on those cards since I run Murderous Cut main, its been good but I do wonder if I should just make them Disfigure. I could potential steal a "larger" creature with the Shackles/Disfigure interaction.
Sidenote: I was unsure about the rules regarding the Sword of Light and Shadow "recursion" trigger after a another creature has be dealt lethal damage during combat. Turns out if I alpha strike and my equipted creature deals combat damage, I can recur another creature dealt lethal damage and sent to the graveyard that combat phase.
This happened to me in a game against WRG aggro. I attacked with a Familiar, Solemn and a Superion(equipted w/Sword of L&S). The Superion was unblocked and the Solemn received lethal damage. After damage was dealt and everything settled I was able to return the Solemn to my hand off of the L&S trigger. On his turn he also did an alpha strike that could've potentially won him the game had I not had Solemn Simulacrum in hand and Æther Vial on 4 to "flash" him in as a blocker.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
Chief of the foundry is just a worst master of etherium sadly. Artificer's epiphany is kind of a bad thirst for knowledge. Whirler rogue is interesting, making golem unblockable seems nice, but at 4 mana and not being an artifact (can't accelerate into it) it is unplayable. We've discussed hangarback walker but in the end i think it's too expensive for what it does.
I'm just hoping we get something sweet for this deck...
Honestly, I just want Master of Waves to be an artifact creature lol.
Hangarback Walker is the closest we might get to that.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
The more I play with the deck, the more I realize that red probably has the best sideboard options for us. It's got Pyroclasm and Grim Lavamancer against Elves and Affinity and it has Blood Moon against Tron. Ratchet Bomb and EE are just not good enough in my experience, they are too slow, they rarely clean up the mess (because of different CMC) and they hit us too. Pyroclasm (and I guess you could run Drown in Sorrow in black, though might be tough on the mana) cleans up everything (except against Merfolk) and it only really hits our 1-drops.
If I had the money for Scalding Tarns and Blood Moons right now, I'd probably try something like this:
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Myr Superion
3 Spellskite
4 Renowned Weaponsmith
4 Chief Engineer
4 Grand Architect
3 Vedalken Shackles
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Batterskull
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
4 Ghost Quarter
6 Island
1 Mountain
4 Pyroclasm
3 Rending Volley
3 Blood Moon
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Spreading Seas
Blood Moon is nice, but way too $$$. Against Tron (a matchup I think I'm willing to just accept as poor), I try to Ghost Quarter then I have 2x Surgical Extraction I bring in from the sideboard.
If you really want to splash red, I'd recommend doing it for Ghirapur Æther Grid and Lightning Bolt.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
Not sure I like Ghirapur (tapping down something like a Superion and a Lodestone to deal 1 doesn't seem that impactful). Would you play Bolt main, or just in the side? Who would you bring it in against?
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
4 Signal Pest
4 Judge's Familiar
4 Vault Skirge
4 Myr Superion
4 Chief Engineer
4 Etherium Sculptor
2 Spellskite
4 Grand Architect
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Vedalken Shackles
1 Sword Of Light And Shadow
lands: 20
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
16 Snow-Covered Island
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Thorn Of Amethyst
2 Pithing Needle
2 Monastery Siege
2 Hurkyl's recall
2 Hibernation
1 Mindlock Orb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Torpor Orb
Another thing i'm considering is going all in with 4x cavern of souls and change the shackles to something else. Even though it rarely occurs i hate losing to choke and cavern protects us vs this and vs counterspells. I'm still not convinced it is worth taking out the shackles because the card has been better than excellent. Shackles also gets hit by stony silence when the opponent sides it in...
So, cavern of souls vs vedalken shackles, thoughts?
Shackles has been very versatile and effective in my list; but I definitely would not run 3.
What happened to Minamo, School at Water's Edge and Oboro, Palace in the Clouds you ran for Choke?
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
Typically having 2-3 islands out for shackles is good enough.
Sometimes I can get it to 4 to steal a Tasigur, but I don't think Minamo and Oboro will be that much of a nonbo.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
Truth is we don't want to sacrifice any of our artifacts, they each are way too valuable. We can't one shot our opponent or have spare mana rocks to sac, like affinity does.
But the two cards together i've though of playing in my disciple of the vault deck, with lots of eggs to be sacced for value.
And before you ask yes i love artifacts
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Buried Ruin
1 Academy Ruins
1 Phyrexia's Core
1 Watery Grave
7 Island
Creatures (27)
4 Judge's Familiar
4 Grand Architect
3 Lodestone Golem
3 Myr Superion
2 Sage of Epityr
2 Spellskite
2 Etherium Sculptor
2 Chief Engineer
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Hangarback Walker
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Murderous Cut
Artifacts (10)
4 Æther Vial
2 Mishra's Bauble
2 Vedalken Shackles
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Logic Knot
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Trinket Mage
1 Echoing Truth
1 Silent Arbiter
1 Hurkyl's Recall
Wondering if its better to replace it with Rite of Undoingand rely on my board presence and Shackles against creatures. Its also better to bounce an opposing Wurmcoil than Murderous Cut it. Honestly I'd rather play Vapor Snag, but I want to play around the taxing aspects of our deck like Golem and Thorn.Removing the black card allows me to play one more basic island and allows for the inclusion of Phyrexia's Core. A card i think its definitely needed for Hangarback Walker and also Wurmcoil against Path to Exile. I still want to play the fetches since they help delve, but also help with Sage of Epityr, a card that has really been good in filtering when we don't have much card draw options.
Also to force people to attack so that I can block with Walker, I may consider adding the Bident of Thassa in again. Either way, still a work in progress.
Sidenote: Removing black also allows me to free up the Deltas for my Tezzeret deck ;-) lol.
Edit: Didnt realize I had to bounce aswell with undoing. Back to cut lol.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
EDIT: ok so i've finally opted for feast and famine main. The problem with fire and ice is that pro blue prevent architect pump, and the protections of fire and ice are somewhat less relevant. I've added back a single cavern, it is a compromise of choke/counter protection vs vedalken shackles consistency. I think 15 islands should be good enough. My new list:
4 Signal Pest
4 Judge's Familiar
4 Vault Skirge
4 Myr Superion
4 Chief Engineer
4 Etherium Sculptor
2 Spellskite
4 Grand Architect
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Vedalken Shackles
1 Sword Of Light And Shadow
1 Sword Of Feast And Famine
lands: 20
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Cavern Of Souls
15 Snow-Covered Island
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Thorn Of Ametyst
2 Pithing Needle
2 Monastery Siege
2 Hurkyl's recall
2 Hibernation
1 Mindlock Orb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Torpor Orb
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
On a side note i'm really enjoying the two phyrexian metamorphs in the side. I find the best way of dealing with great creatures from my opponent is having one of my own. I side them in vs any midrange deck where all the creatures they play are top quality. It is also great vs opposing batterskull, having one on my field is super great, as mine will likely end up equipped on something bigger than theirs. Last monday i beat a abzan midrange deck with siege rhino, i was a rhino fest, he plays one, i copy it, again and again but with signal pest i could attack profitably.
The other card i bring vs midrange/control is monastery siege. The card has been great, and i've used both modes and they are both useful. The extra draw is good when you need to catch up and the taxing mode is good when you need to consolidate your lead. Mindlock orb is another sideboard card that has done a lot of work, last monday i faced two tooth and nail decks in a row, I beat them both partly because of this amazing piece of cardboard
If by viable you mean taking it to a larger tournament and do well with it, I don't think it is. It's too inconsistent and loses to itself a lot. But I've won a bunch of 8-mans with it online and Ace1 and StreetMage have won some local tournaments with it. So it can definitely tangle with the big guns.
Writing a primer would be cool though. 10 pages in it has probably come to that point. Be careful with what you write though. What looks good on paper and in your mind is very different from how it typically plays out. This is of course always true, but especially with this deck. Ideally you've done some play testing yourself or Ace and StreetMage can make some bigger contributions (I'm too lazy myself )
As far as viability I think Badabing summed it up. But its one of the few decks that can really push Vedalken Shackles and I think Grand Architect in general. New cards like Hangarback Walker are very promising and I will be testing it today at my LGS modern weekly tourney.
I think one of the decks inherent weakness comes in having to carefully build around Lodestone Golem. It limits the type of non-artifact cards you want to be running. I've tried to solve this with using fetchlands and cards with the delve mechanic i.e Murderous Cut and Logic Knot. Mishra's Bauble serves a dual role in being delve food/replacing itself. Also, Æther Vial is a way to get non-artifact creatures around Lodestone tax and even equally important, is an additional way to cheat in Myr Superion. So why run Golem you ask, well hes a beater and he messes up math for non-artifact decks, I've won many games just with only one in play (multiples add). I've gone down to 3 and use Phyrexian Metamorph as the potential 4th.
Card draw is another aspect I think we need to improve. Again, Golem makes it difficult to just run Thirst for Knowledge etc, although I think Ace1 was able to pull it off at one point. To solve this I run Sage of Epityr in combination with fetchlands and Mishra's Bauble to give me card selection/pseudo-ponder effect. Sage serves the dual purpose of card selection and being a blue creature for Grand Architect. Vialing in a Sage during your upkeep beofre your draw is very good too in trying to get the right pieces.
Sword of L&S is spectacular, I'm thinking of running the Sword of Feast and Famine in the side as Ace has some interesting interactions with it against Choke and I think its just good in general against goyfs and tasigurs.
Anyway, went into a rant lol, but if you are really serious about a primer or even just want to join the team in trying to make this a competitive deck, you are certainly more than welcome!
Sidenote: One of the things I would try to stray away from is that this is well differentiated from the Pila-Pala/Heartless Summoning decks.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
In a bigger tournaments with a lot of rounds this problem might come up a few times. Deciding when to keep or mulligan is a crucial part of playing this deck, so if you don't like mulliganing i would not recommend this deck.
We also don't have library manipulation (serum visions), which would probably decrease the number of mulligans and make the deck more consistent. Adding those poses the problem of what to take out. All the cards in the deck are useful/powerful/synergistic.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
Round 1, GW Hatebears (2-0):
Match 1: Hangarback Walker with 1 counter, find a sword of L&S, equip the walker and contiunue to pump up to 3, I also have Lodestone, Grand Architect and Spellskite in play. Opponent has Scavenging Ooze, 2 Loxodon Smiters and a Noble Hierarch in play. We draw go for a few more turns, he plays Collected Company to find Qasali Pridemage and an Aven Mindscensor. We trade for a while but he can't keep up with sword of L&S. I finally block with Walker to get 3 thopters, Equipt one of them with Batterskull and Sword of L&S then start the beats to win.
Match 2: Get out an early Superion which he Paths, game proceeds, then I find a Walker which I cast for 10 to get 5 counters on him; my board consist of Lodestone, 2 Architects and a Sage. I cast a Shackles which later finds Pridemage for. We trade back and forth, but I overwhelm the board and win.
Round 2, Eternal Command(1-2):
Match 1: This deck plays Eternal Witness, Aether Vial and Cryptic Command. I kept a slow hand and he was able to assemble the lock with those 3 cards tapping my team each turn, then attacking. Also he plays Glissa, the Traitor main which was hard to attack through.
Match 2: I keep a fast hand and get Superion, Architect and Lodestone out all in quick succession, he couldn't keep up.
Match 3: This game I was able to get Thorn out and he was low on mana. I got Superion out and started bashing, once he got Aether Vial to 3 he Vialed in Glissa, the Traitor to block my Superion (first strike, deathtouch is brutal). Thorn and his lack of mana keeps him in check and we just draw go as his Glissa and Goyf keeps my creatures at bay. We continue back and forth till we get to turns, his board is getting bigger and I have to keep blocking, finally we get to turn 5, his last attack wasn't lethal, but I give him the match since he was ahead he's done it for me in the past.
Round 3, UR Twin (2-1):
Match 1: Aether Vial, then Hangarback Walker with 1 counter next turn. I Vial in a Spellskite next turn and kill a Pestermite on his end with Murderous Cut. Gradually get Walker to 3 counters. Spellskite keeps me safe till I can get Lodestone and Superion out. Gradually just beatdown.
Match 2: Ancient Grudges my Spellskite to Pestermite Twin on next turn.
Match 3: Aether Vial, then Sage, Judge, Grand Architect into Lodestone following Turns. Attack and surprise vial in another Grand Architect to get in for 12 some damage turn 4 or 5 I think. Was his turn and he didnt find the Twin, I win next turn.
Round 4, Grixis Twin (2-0):
Match 1: Aether Vial into 2 Spellskites the following turns, get Aether Vial up to 6 counters which allows me to Vial in 2 Wurmcoil Engines. He couldn't keep up.
Match 2: Aether Vial, into Superion on following turns holding Spellskite in hand and leaving Vial on two. Game goes back and forth, he terminates the Superion and I Surgical Extract his Terminates. I get Lodestone out and have a board of blue creatures along with Spellskite. Game goes long till I can naturally cast Wurmcoil Engine vs his Keranos. He continues to draw lands off Keranos and extra cards. I have 2 Blinkmoths so I get in for beats since he was able to Cryptic, then Snap Cryptic, Cryptic for the last 3 turns on my team. Eventually I get there.
My memory is really off but I think I got the jist of the matches. MVP of the night is definitely SPELLSKITE! I don't think we can afford not to run 2x Spellskite minimum in the main. Hangarback Walker was also pretty good as hes usually a creature your opponents underestimate as he grows and grows. I like him and will continue to test with him.
List I ran:
7 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Swamp
1 Phyrexia's Core
1 Academy Ruins
1 Watery Grave
Spells (2)
2 Murderous Cut
Artifacts (10)
4 Æther Vial
2 Mishra's Bauble
2 Vedalken Shackles
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Judge's Familiar
4 Grand Architect
3 Lodestone Golem
3 Myr Superion
2 Spellskite
2 Sage of Epityr
2 Hangarback Walker
2 Etherium Sculptor
2 Chief Engineer
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Logic Knot
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Silent Arbiter
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Trinket Mage
1 Grafdigger's Cage
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
I'm glad walker works, i just love the creature and getting a threat that is resilient and grindy is pretty nice, i might try some for myself. I just wish I had preordered some, they are like 10$ a piece now I never though it would go up that fast!