Since were discussing Rakdos builds this is what I've been running for a bit. Granted it's tight budgeted and thus no liliana/chalice/etc. Chandra is a great addition to the monoblack list and I'm pushing towards a few more copies of those key cards assuming finances go well.
Currently trying to find room for Fatal Push and a few other Aether Revolt cards
Fatal Push is actually going to make it so I try to get this deck back into playability. Sakura Tribe-Elder and fetches turn the second mode on way more than other decks. Smallpox is also an enabler as is Cloud.
I'll work up list.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
I've been working on a list lately too. Glad to see you here Poopingmypants!
Fatal push is exactly what we needed here. It's our black lightning bolt. I know that it can't hit players but as mentioned, it's well within our limits to turn on revolt pretty often. Here's what I've got so far:
I thought about splashing white for Renegade Rallier to further the revolt theme but I figured that would be too cute. White does also add Lingering souls. Hmmmm
Updated my list after durdling around a bit. I decided that I Love the new Liliana. Post cloud she brings back a threat, which is huge. She can get back ste for another blocker too. Overall I would say she's more synergistic than LOTV. It was hard for me to swallow because LOTV is the greatest planes walker of all time (imo). But she isn't doing much for us post-cloud. I also decided to up the Kalitas count. If your opponent loses any creatures to a Death Cloud with your Kalitas in play, you get to keep zombies post-cloud. I almost want 3 but be fights with Garruk for the 4CMC spot. Updated list:
I'm really loving Fatal Push. It's exactly what we needed in this deck. I feel it will have a similar effect on UB control. It's like the missing piece of our puzzle.
Liliana of the veil might be the most powerful card in the list. Auto 4x. Post cloud hellbenting nonland draw steps is very good. So is - vs a top decking opponent....
I don't like playing random creatures in my list either
Updated my list after durdling around a bit. I decided that I Love the new Liliana. Post cloud she brings back a threat, which is huge. She can get back ste for another blocker too. Overall I would say she's more synergistic than LOTV. It was hard for me to swallow because LOTV is the greatest planes walker of all time (imo). But she isn't doing much for us post-cloud. I also decided to up the Kalitas count. If your opponent loses any creatures to a Death Cloud with your Kalitas in play, you get to keep zombies post-cloud. I almost want 3 but be fights with Garruk for the 4CMC spot. Updated list:
I'm really loving Fatal Push. It's exactly what we needed in this deck. I feel it will have a similar effect on UB control. It's like the missing piece of our puzzle.
I am very interested to see how this list performs. I'm still a little hesitant about Liliana, the Last Hope. However I can see shenanigans happening in the vein of -2 into Eternal Witness into Damnation or something. It could be fun in a creature heavy build. Have you had any mana issues with the 4 Tectonic Edge in the main? I run 27 lands and could only fit 3 of them to keep the colors running smoothly. I've been dabbling in mono-black death cloud for a bit, but the lack of the super grindy cards that green provides has brought me back to my old junk chalice/lingering souls list but with a few changes.
The mana base contains some sub par fetchlands but I have a limited collection. The removal package of Doom Blade and Go for the Throat I will replace with Fatal Push other than that it is pretty much self explanatory.
The combination of Liliana of the Veil and Lingering Souls along with having access to flashing back souls after landing a Death Cloud allowed games to be closed out quickly. Not allowing them any chance to rebuild.
I would love to hear any input. So far I have 3-0 a FNM playing against Zoo, U/R Delver and Weenie White.
I absolutely love Lingering Souls in Death Cloud! How often do you find yourself boarding in Grave Titan from the side? I feel that it is either a maindeck card or better suited as something else in the sideboard. I think that FuneralofGod might be right in that you might be threat light preboard. You have an abundance of removal but few ways to close out the game barring a massive death cloud/garruk ultimate. Hopefully you can elaborate on your experience pre and post board to give us an idea of what to expect. Also, do you ever find yourself a little land light too? This deck is extremely mana hungry and having only 23 lands seems a bit odd. Hope to hear more about your results!
Something I also considered was more discard cards, or cards that synergiser with the deathcloud turn. (Note Messenger might need a different manabase.)
Plan A is just to cast deathcloud and have more creatures or lands then our oponent. 4 BoP, 4 Sakura-Tribe Elder will make Courser of Kruphix and Tireless Tracker better. All the fetchlands works with them as well, making more clues, or changing the topcard of the deck.
Plan B is just to attack with creatures. Discard + Tarmogoyf can put preassure on the oponent, maybe even to race them. CoCo and Treetop Village acts as backup. I know I should ideally run 26 creatures with Coco, but I think 10 fetchlands, 4 Sakura and Courser of Kruphix can help thin the deck and rig a good topcard on the deck.
I have not tried it out yet. The deck might need more interaction vs infect. Othervice I think the deck looks real good.
I'm not sure on the mainboard pulse, and some games I feel really threat light, almost like I have to land a cloud to have a chance. Overall though I'm really enjoying the deck. I think with some tweeks and more time on it I can iron out most of what I'm dealing with.
Something I also considered was more discard cards, or cards that synergiser with the deathcloud turn. (Note Messenger might need a different manabase.)
Plan A is just to cast deathcloud and have more creatures or lands then our oponent. 4 BoP, 4 Sakura-Tribe Elder will make Courser of Kruphix and Tireless Tracker better. All the fetchlands works with them as well, making more clues, or changing the topcard of the deck.
Plan B is just to attack with creatures. Discard + Tarmogoyf can put preassure on the oponent, maybe even to race them. CoCo and Treetop Village acts as backup. I know I should ideally run 26 creatures with Coco, but I think 10 fetchlands, 4 Sakura and Courser of Kruphix can help thin the deck and rig a good topcard on the deck.
I have not tried it out yet. The deck might need more interaction vs infect. Othervice I think the deck looks real good.
Love the list! I've been trying to make a creature heavy version of Death Cloud for a long time now. I might recommend Liliana, Heretical Healer? Since she will likely die with another creature on the field.
Either way, great innovation here. I love Brain Maggot into a DC - since they lost all their land they likely wouldn't be able to cast the card you took anyway.
@Lostandelirious: That's great to hear! Your maindeck list seems like a streamlined version of mine. As the sideboard goes, I tend to forego the Tron match up completely, but I do like the Ghost Quarter/Loam package against them and the grindier 3+ color decks if I can find the space. If you can make it work then I say go for it. I definitely hope to hear more about your future matches.
Still currently testing this out. I'm not sure if I want to move all of the chalices to the board, but I'm liking it as it is. Tron so far is my only auto loss. Scapeshift might be leaning towards that, but I need to test that matchup more.
@VidarThor: That is definitely an interesting list. Not quite the direction I would go in death cloud where we have to sacrifice our own creatures. However, I'm very curious to see how you do in testing.
@Littlesid: The list looks fairly standard. I would try squeezing in an Eternal Witness to combo with Pulse of Murasa and just get value in general. As for Maelstrom Pulse, I really like it as a catch-all against the various decks in modern. Of course, the meta might be more static at your FNM, so it might not be necessary. How has the deck been doing in your testing?
I'm glad to see a large variety of death cloud builds. Not quite sold on the Fatal Push as of yet, especially as a 4-of, when we have maindeck abrupt decays and damnations. I know they are terrible in my list with the maindeck chalices, but hopefully someone can report on how they've been performing in various matchups. I feel that Fatal Push helps the other midrange decks more by evening the playing field against fast aggro, thus creating an environment where this deck thrives.
Finally back to messing around with Death Cloud after not playing modern much for the past few years. Fatal Push is obviously a huge boon to the deck and Collective Brutality makes the burn matchup much better whilst being a reasonable card elsewhere.
I don't like the Chalice lists as much now that Kolaghan's Command exists. It's still amazing against combo but it getting answered profitably from a lot of the fair decks makes it harder to justify giving up Fatal Push. Half the reason I used to like playing cloud in Jund colours was access to Bolt for early removal, and push is even better than bolt if you only want to kill creatures.
Dark Confidant in Death Cloud is a little suicidal, but the total CMC of the deck is 76, or 1.26 damage a turn from Dark Confidant which is very close to the amount Jund takes. It is a little harder to end the game quickly and he can be SBed out but against combo/control he's the best card in the deck if unanswered.
Ideally I'd play Courser of Kruphix instead of Tireless Tracker, but the manabase can't support BB, GG, W and 4 tec edge. I'd rather drop Courser than lose Souls or Tec Edge. Plus, this deck has time to draw from the clues and if they don't answer him he just draws 6 cards. Clues are also a fun synergy with Death Cloud.
I really like this list! The lands subtheme is pretty cool and always feels good in combo with death cloud. You both need lands to ramp up and then of course lands to rebuild after all of which kind of need to more then your opponent otherwise you're hurting yourself as much or more with the cloud. Having extra cards to toss to Liliana, cloud, or collective brutality also seems really good.
I still feel like I like Garruk, especially with the linger souls tokens, not to mention with cloud, maybe if you could get Gavony township in that could work instead. I also miss Goyfs, finks, ooze and tasigur a bit. I think I'd be tempted to cut the trackers for some combination of those creatures. If you went goyfs or ooze it would even bring your curve down a bit for confidant damage. I kinda of feel like some ramp in Sakura tribe elder feels good too maybe?
I haven't been playing much recently just poking around through the forums every once and a while, but I am not sold on the fatal push either. I am kind of am more excited by Collective brutality and I am really partial to Slaughter pact and or dismember for other low cost removal.
Longtime follower of this primer. Has anyone thought about Nissa, Vital Force ?
She costs a bit much, but her +1 is amazing post cloud from my testing anyways. Also, If one does not have Liliana of the veil or Liliana, the last hope, is a Death Cloud deck worth it?
Ive been testing a lot of builds for my Death Cloud and i'm facing a problem with the ramp.
What do you guys use to ramp? Utopia Sprawl? Search for Tomorrow? STE?
Currently ive been using 4x STE + 4x Search for Tomorrow and im not enjoying. The searchs for tomorrow are dead draws if its not in your opening hand.
I did a little search and came up with other options:
a) Explore
b) Traverse the Uwenvald
c) Utopia Sprawl
d) Life from the Loam
e) Give up the ramp for a control build
I'm already using 4x IoK, 2x Thoughtseize and 3x Abrupt Decay. With the addition of the Fatal Push playset, i would abandon the ramp strat for a control Death Cloud... What do you guys think? Can you help me?
I currently have a budget version of Death Cloud rock that I am slowly making more competitive. I don't own any fetch lands yet so I'm concerned that Fatal Push suffers a lot. My only self sacrificing card is STE. Instead of Fatal Push I'm using Smother.
Do you guys think fatal push is still worth it despite running so few sac outlets? I'm not so sure it is. (not until I get around to purchasing the Fetch Lands)
Hey guys, I'm not sure anyone is still playing this deck but I just recently got back to magic and decided to try Death Cloud. More often than not I am broke so I went with the budget cloud version from Saffron Olive, but since his build is a few months old I wonder if there are any obvious upgrades I could make. Right now my deck looks like this:
Should probably get some Kitchen Finks but seems quite expensive for what it does. Dark Confidant, Liliana of the Veil and Tarmogoyf aren't options. And yes, I can't afford Abrupt Decay, Maelstrom Pulse, Thoughtseize or Inquisition of Kozilek at the moment either and can only justify getting really cheap cards since I'm going to be a father soon, anything that might seem expensive I already owned from a few years back (even tried selling them actually with no luck).
I have a playset of Scavenging ooze, 2 Courser of Kruphix, a single Liliana, Heretical Healer and a playset of Phyrexian Arena (these are only examples) which I would like to play but I dunno how to mess with the deck without ruining it. I play mostly casual against friends, but they tend to play quick stuff like Burn that always gets me dead even after a large cloud.
Things I never seem to like playing are the Smallpox and Haunting Echoes (might just not know how to do it right). I like the Ramp strategy on the deck as well but Search for Tomorrow is a horrible draw mid-game as many have stated, thought about using Birds of Paradise but it doesn't seem a good idea.
So I'm at a loss here and every help will be welcome.
Of the cards you listed, it appears that IoK and Abrupt Decay are the low hanging fruit. There isn't really a good way to bring the cost of LotV and Thoughtseize down short of more reprints. Completely understand the father thing as I have 3 kids myself. Pulse is a 1-2 of generally and Decay is anywhere from 2-4 in the 75.
Inquisition of Kozilek: $5
Abrupt Decay: $4.50
Liliana of the Veil: $90
Maelstrom Pulse: $25
Thoughtseize: $30
This is the last build I was running, apparently my SB is missing tho. If you can't swing an Overgrown Tomb or 2 and don't have any green fetches, your current manabase is fine. I don't actually run any discard in my version and I was using Coursers in the deck as well. Some number of Ooze in the board is good. Phyrexian Arena I like as a 1 of. Too many just kills your life way too fast and this deck can be very rough on your life total. Languish would be Damnation if I had one.
Smallpox is a great 2nd or 3rd turn play. If you Search T1, Elder T2, then T3 cast Smallpox, you are looking at being on 3 mana afterwards and they will be behind. Really great to be on the play and watch them do something like T1 Delver or the Bauble builds of Death Shadow that get a T1 Shadow on the board. Then you take your turn and Smallpox it away You have ways to get things back from the GY and to search out of your deck, so losing a land early isn't that big a deal. In the turn sequence I showed above, you can easily drop Garruk in the wake of that play on the next turn or Courser and maybe get a land off the top of your deck.
Some builds of the deck go the Utopia Sprawl route to ramp, but I haven't messed w/that yet. I'll admit my deck has been put up for awhile as it hasn't felt great in the meta for quite awhile, but if we can protect ourselves from their discard somehow, having more resources than your opponent gets you way ahead. An Abzan list w/Leyline of sanctity in the board might be a thing.
Im trying to construct this deck, but not playing it yet
Is anyone going to try Ramunap excavator? If so, please report the results.
In my opinion it looks pretty dope, with fetches being reusable in the worst case, and being able to resurrect your entire mana base from a death cloud in the best. In the list im going to try, it replaces two couriers.
So Ramnuap Excavator seems cool but if you cast a death cloud 90% of the time we still have 3-4 lands to there 0 or 1-2 and he feels a little extra, He's better off in a GW hatebear type shell if anything. The creatures you want IMO are Sakura-Tribe Elder, Kitchen Finks, Thragtusk, Scavenging Ooze, Eternal Witness, Grave titan and Kalitas. Obviously not all of them but a mixture of some. Here's my list I've been playing on paper to some solid results.
Currently trying to find room for Fatal Push and a few other Aether Revolt cards
3 Gemstone Caverns
3 Lavaclaw Reaches
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Temple of Malice
1 Graven Cairns
2 Mountain
3 Swamp
1 Ghost Quarter
Artifacts:
4 Talisman of Indulgence
3 Coalition Relic
2 Relic of Progenitus
4 Death Cloud
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Terminate
1 Dreadbore
1 Dismember
1 Dark Petition
Creatures:
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Eternal Scourge
1 Bedlam Reveler
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
Planeswalkers:
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Liliana Vess
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Vandalblast
2 Thoughtseize
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Slaughter Games
2 Ravenous Trap
1 Crumble to Dust
2 Sudden Shock
I'll work up list.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
Fatal push is exactly what we needed here. It's our black lightning bolt. I know that it can't hit players but as mentioned, it's well within our limits to turn on revolt pretty often. Here's what I've got so far:
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Dark Confidant
3 Grim Flayer
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
Spells (17)
4 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Fatal push
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Death Cloud
4 Gonti's Machinations
3 Liliana, the last hope
Lands (24)
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Verdant catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
2 Overgrown tomb
3 Treetop Village
2 Twilight mire
3 Swamp
1 forest
I thought about splashing white for Renegade Rallier to further the revolt theme but I figured that would be too cute. White does also add Lingering souls. Hmmmm
Draft My Cube!
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Scavenging Ooze
2 Eternal Witness
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Spells (18):
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
4 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Death Cloud
3 Liliana, the last hope
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
Lands (24):
4 Verdant catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
4 Tectonic Edge
3 Treetop Village
3 Overgrown tomb
2 Twilight mire
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Fulminator Mage
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Thragtusk
2 Geth's Verdict
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Abrupt decay
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
I'm really loving Fatal Push. It's exactly what we needed in this deck. I feel it will have a similar effect on UB control. It's like the missing piece of our puzzle.
Draft My Cube!
I don't like playing random creatures in my list either
Draft My Cube!
CoCo deathcloud
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Brain Maggot
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Eternal Witness
3 Courser of Kruphix
3 Kitchen Finks
4 Collected Company
4 Death Cloud
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
24 Lands
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Dakmor Salvage
2 Treetop Village
3 Overgrown Tomb
3 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
What I do not like: Little spot removal, and interaction against agressive decks. This can be midigated by having some of these cards maindeck:
3 Minister of Pain
3 Vengeful Rebel
Something I also considered was more discard cards, or cards that synergiser with the deathcloud turn. (Note Messenger might need a different manabase.)
2 Augur of Skulls
3 Hypnotic Specter
3 Geralf's Messenger
Or we can move more into the manaramp and sacrefice theme.
3 Liliana, Heretical Healer
3 Fulminator Mage
Plan A is just to cast deathcloud and have more creatures or lands then our oponent. 4 BoP, 4 Sakura-Tribe Elder will make Courser of Kruphix and Tireless Tracker better. All the fetchlands works with them as well, making more clues, or changing the topcard of the deck.
Plan B is just to attack with creatures. Discard + Tarmogoyf can put preassure on the oponent, maybe even to race them. CoCo and Treetop Village acts as backup. I know I should ideally run 26 creatures with Coco, but I think 10 fetchlands, 4 Sakura and Courser of Kruphix can help thin the deck and rig a good topcard on the deck.
I have not tried it out yet. The deck might need more interaction vs infect. Othervice I think the deck looks real good.
2x Abrupt Decay
4x Fatal Push
1x Pulse of Murasa
Sorcery (12)
2x Collective Brutality
1x Damnation
3x Death Cloud
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Thoughtseize
3x Garruk Wildspeaker
2x Liliana of the Veil
Creature (12)
1x Courser of Kruphix
4x Kitchen Finks
4x Sakura-Tribe Elder
2x Scavenging Ooze
1x Thragtusk
Land (24)
2x Forest
3x Ghost Quarter
2x Marsh Flats
3x Overgrown Tomb
4x Swamp
3x Treetop Village
2x Twilight Mire
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Verdant Catacombs
I'm not sure on the mainboard pulse, and some games I feel really threat light, almost like I have to land a cloud to have a chance. Overall though I'm really enjoying the deck. I think with some tweeks and more time on it I can iron out most of what I'm dealing with.
Love the list! I've been trying to make a creature heavy version of Death Cloud for a long time now. I might recommend Liliana, Heretical Healer? Since she will likely die with another creature on the field.
Either way, great innovation here. I love Brain Maggot into a DC - since they lost all their land they likely wouldn't be able to cast the card you took anyway.
Draft My Cube!
My list for reference:
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Golgari Rot Farm
3 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Shambling Vent
2 Stirring Wildwood
2 Twilight Mire
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Tectonic Edge
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Tasigur, The Golden Fang
1 Thragtusk
Other Spells: 19
3 Chalice of the Void
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Dismember
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Lingering Souls
2 Damnation
3 Death Cloud
Planeswalkers: 7
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Thoughtseize
2 Darkblast
2 Collective Brutality
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Thragtusk
2 Damnation
4 Leyline of the Void
@VidarThor: That is definitely an interesting list. Not quite the direction I would go in death cloud where we have to sacrifice our own creatures. However, I'm very curious to see how you do in testing.
@Littlesid: The list looks fairly standard. I would try squeezing in an Eternal Witness to combo with Pulse of Murasa and just get value in general. As for Maelstrom Pulse, I really like it as a catch-all against the various decks in modern. Of course, the meta might be more static at your FNM, so it might not be necessary. How has the deck been doing in your testing?
I'm glad to see a large variety of death cloud builds. Not quite sold on the Fatal Push as of yet, especially as a 4-of, when we have maindeck abrupt decays and damnations. I know they are terrible in my list with the maindeck chalices, but hopefully someone can report on how they've been performing in various matchups. I feel that Fatal Push helps the other midrange decks more by evening the playing field against fast aggro, thus creating an environment where this deck thrives.
I don't like the Chalice lists as much now that Kolaghan's Command exists. It's still amazing against combo but it getting answered profitably from a lot of the fair decks makes it harder to justify giving up Fatal Push. Half the reason I used to like playing cloud in Jund colours was access to Bolt for early removal, and push is even better than bolt if you only want to kill creatures.
This is the current list I'm playing on MODO:
2 Marsh Flats
3 Hissing Quagmire
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Tectonic Edge
3 Shambling Vent
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
2 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Windswept Heath
2 Thoughtseize
4 Fatal Push
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Collective Brutality
1 Life from the Loam
4 Lingering Souls
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Death Cloud
Creatures (8)
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tireless Tracker
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Fulminator Mage
2 Collective Brutality
2 Damnation
3 Stony Silence
3 Rest in Peace
1 Phyrexian Unlife
Dark Confidant in Death Cloud is a little suicidal, but the total CMC of the deck is 76, or 1.26 damage a turn from Dark Confidant which is very close to the amount Jund takes. It is a little harder to end the game quickly and he can be SBed out but against combo/control he's the best card in the deck if unanswered.
Ideally I'd play Courser of Kruphix instead of Tireless Tracker, but the manabase can't support BB, GG, W and 4 tec edge. I'd rather drop Courser than lose Souls or Tec Edge. Plus, this deck has time to draw from the clues and if they don't answer him he just draws 6 cards. Clues are also a fun synergy with Death Cloud.
I still feel like I like Garruk, especially with the linger souls tokens, not to mention with cloud, maybe if you could get Gavony township in that could work instead. I also miss Goyfs, finks, ooze and tasigur a bit. I think I'd be tempted to cut the trackers for some combination of those creatures. If you went goyfs or ooze it would even bring your curve down a bit for confidant damage. I kinda of feel like some ramp in Sakura tribe elder feels good too maybe?
I haven't been playing much recently just poking around through the forums every once and a while, but I am not sold on the fatal push either. I am kind of am more excited by Collective brutality and I am really partial to Slaughter pact and or dismember for other low cost removal.
Longtime follower of this primer. Has anyone thought about Nissa, Vital Force ?
She costs a bit much, but her +1 is amazing post cloud from my testing anyways. Also, If one does not have Liliana of the veil or Liliana, the last hope, is a Death Cloud deck worth it?
Thanks in advance
Ive been testing a lot of builds for my Death Cloud and i'm facing a problem with the ramp.
What do you guys use to ramp? Utopia Sprawl? Search for Tomorrow? STE?
Currently ive been using 4x STE + 4x Search for Tomorrow and im not enjoying. The searchs for tomorrow are dead draws if its not in your opening hand.
I did a little search and came up with other options:
a) Explore
b) Traverse the Uwenvald
c) Utopia Sprawl
d) Life from the Loam
e) Give up the ramp for a control build
I'm already using 4x IoK, 2x Thoughtseize and 3x Abrupt Decay. With the addition of the Fatal Push playset, i would abandon the ramp strat for a control Death Cloud... What do you guys think? Can you help me?
Thanks a lot in advance!
Do you guys think fatal push is still worth it despite running so few sac outlets? I'm not so sure it is. (not until I get around to purchasing the Fetch Lands)
4 Fulminator Mage
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Shriekmaw
4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 Liliana, Heretical Healer
// Planeswalkers (2)
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
// Lands (23)
3 Forest
1 Island
3 Swamp
1 Breeding Pool
2 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Polluted Delta
1 Twilight Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Goryo's Vengeance
2 Damnation
3 Death Cloud
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Thoughtseize
2 Nihil Spellbomb
4 Obstinate Baloth
1 Shriekmaw
1 Beast Within
2 Nature's Claim
2 Negate
2 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Duress
1x Bojuka Bog
5x Forest
4x Jungle Hollow
4x Llanowar Wastes
6x Swamp
3x Treetop Village
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Planeswalker (5)
3x Garruk Wildspeaker
2x Liliana Vess
Sorcery (14)
4x Death Cloud
2x Haunting Echoes
4x Search for Tomorrow
4x Smallpox
1x Dismember
3x Doom Blade
Creature (11)
2x Eternal Witness
4x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Solemn Simulacrum
4x Thragtusk
Artifact (2)
2x Golgari Signet
4x Curse of Death's Hold
4x Duress
1x Fulminator Mage
1x Haunting Echoes
2x Rain of Tears
3x Seal of Primordium
I also have it on TappedOut here.
Should probably get some Kitchen Finks but seems quite expensive for what it does. Dark Confidant, Liliana of the Veil and Tarmogoyf aren't options. And yes, I can't afford Abrupt Decay, Maelstrom Pulse, Thoughtseize or Inquisition of Kozilek at the moment either and can only justify getting really cheap cards since I'm going to be a father soon, anything that might seem expensive I already owned from a few years back (even tried selling them actually with no luck).
I have a playset of Scavenging ooze, 2 Courser of Kruphix, a single Liliana, Heretical Healer and a playset of Phyrexian Arena (these are only examples) which I would like to play but I dunno how to mess with the deck without ruining it. I play mostly casual against friends, but they tend to play quick stuff like Burn that always gets me dead even after a large cloud.
Things I never seem to like playing are the Smallpox and Haunting Echoes (might just not know how to do it right). I like the Ramp strategy on the deck as well but Search for Tomorrow is a horrible draw mid-game as many have stated, thought about using Birds of Paradise but it doesn't seem a good idea.
So I'm at a loss here and every help will be welcome.
Inquisition of Kozilek: $5
Abrupt Decay: $4.50
Liliana of the Veil: $90
Maelstrom Pulse: $25
Thoughtseize: $30
This is the last build I was running, apparently my SB is missing tho. If you can't swing an Overgrown Tomb or 2 and don't have any green fetches, your current manabase is fine. I don't actually run any discard in my version and I was using Coursers in the deck as well. Some number of Ooze in the board is good. Phyrexian Arena I like as a 1 of. Too many just kills your life way too fast and this deck can be very rough on your life total. Languish would be Damnation if I had one.
4 Sakura Tribe Elder
3 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Thragtusk
1 Kalitas
Spells: 18
2 Traverse the Ulvenwald
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Smallpox
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Languish
3 Death Cloud
1 Murderous Cut
1 Primal Command
1 Dark Petition
2 LotV
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
Lands: 24
5 Forest
3 Swamp
4 Windswept Heath
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blooming Marsh
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Dakmor Salvage
4 Treetop Village
2 Hissing Quagmire
Smallpox is a great 2nd or 3rd turn play. If you Search T1, Elder T2, then T3 cast Smallpox, you are looking at being on 3 mana afterwards and they will be behind. Really great to be on the play and watch them do something like T1 Delver or the Bauble builds of Death Shadow that get a T1 Shadow on the board. Then you take your turn and Smallpox it away You have ways to get things back from the GY and to search out of your deck, so losing a land early isn't that big a deal. In the turn sequence I showed above, you can easily drop Garruk in the wake of that play on the next turn or Courser and maybe get a land off the top of your deck.
Some builds of the deck go the Utopia Sprawl route to ramp, but I haven't messed w/that yet. I'll admit my deck has been put up for awhile as it hasn't felt great in the meta for quite awhile, but if we can protect ourselves from their discard somehow, having more resources than your opponent gets you way ahead. An Abzan list w/Leyline of sanctity in the board might be a thing.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/04-07-17-gbw-control/
So Ramnuap Excavator seems cool but if you cast a death cloud 90% of the time we still have 3-4 lands to there 0 or 1-2 and he feels a little extra, He's better off in a GW hatebear type shell if anything. The creatures you want IMO are Sakura-Tribe Elder, Kitchen Finks, Thragtusk, Scavenging Ooze, Eternal Witness, Grave titan and Kalitas. Obviously not all of them but a mixture of some. Here's my list I've been playing on paper to some solid results.
//Creature (12)
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Thragtusk
//Instant (6)
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Fatal Push
//Planeswalker (6)
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
//Sorcery (12)
1 Damnation
4 Death Cloud
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Search for Tomorrow
2 Thoughtseize
//Land (24)
2 Blooming Marsh
2 Forest
2 Marsh Flats
3 Overgrown Tomb
4 Swamp
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Treetop Village
2 Twilight Mire
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Fracturing Gust
SB: 4 Fulminator Mage
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Thragtusk
SB: 1 Thrun, the Last Troll