I havent tested Jace's Sanctum yet. It definitely is worth testing, it's just at 4 mana, it's a bit steep. Hard to find room in the list, but it still could be good.
I played this deck a couple years ago, right after the banning of Seething Song (yeah, what a timing...) I remember I struggled a bit with blazingly fast decks, but the deck could handle combo decks like twin and scapeshift pretty well. It was fun as hell too. I quit it when Eidolon of the Great Revel was printed.
How have you been doing recently? The format has sped up significantly since then, and the deck already felt kinda weak before delve creatures and the aggro menace that rules modern these days... Anyone with recent tournament experiences?
I havent tested Jace's Sanctum yet. It definitely is worth testing, it's just at 4 mana, it's a bit steep. Hard to find room in the list, but it still could be good.
The thing is (aka the only reason why I even consider running Jace Sanctum) that it costs 4 mana and is an enchantment. This means against BGx that the opp has at best 2 outs in the deck vs this card, or up to 6 with the Discard spells.
Yeah, "wasting" a Ritual for it to cast it on Turn 3 is not so great, but at least it helps a lot by cantripping into additional action (Scry 1). I just need to test it to give a proper statement.
Btw. either way, it would only be a one of, since the other enablers are faster, which is more important now. If the format slows down again, I would consider running a second copy.
I played this deck a couple years ago, right after the banning of Seething Song (yeah, what a timing...) I remember I struggled a bit with blazingly fast decks, but the deck could handle combo decks like twin and scapeshift pretty well. It was fun as hell too. I quit it when Eidolon of the Great Revel was printed.
How have you been doing recently? The format has sped up significantly since then, and the deck already felt kinda weak before delve creatures and the aggro menace that rules modern these days... Anyone with recent tournament experiences?
I sadly have no possibilities to run the deck currently (no events around here), so I cannot give you input regarding this.
However, I just want to point something out. When Ritual Gifts was at its prime (post Avacan Restored pre RTR), the meta was way more hateful than it is now. Delver was back in the days a really big deal (both UWR with Landfall + Gifts SB as RUG with Cryptics/Shackels) while you had the standard aggro decks back than (+ Kiki Pod, which was a nightmare to play against due to the fast clock and MD Archmage).
So yeah, I'm thinking, that a deck like this (which can play similar as Twin) is always somewhat good. Sure, the current amount of graveyard hate is annoying, but at least we got some new tools to deal with this (looking at you Madcap experiment).
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
How have you been doing recently? The format has sped up significantly since then, and the deck already felt kinda weak before delve creatures and the aggro menace that rules modern these days... Anyone with recent tournament experiences?
No tournament experience. I've just been playing it online a bunch. It feels like the list iv'e been tuning is getting closer and closer. It's a lot different than the old Ritual Gifts lists we were playing in the past though. The new list revolves around sticking a mana reducer and running a Gifts chain through that for the win.
The list is still super fun though. Come back and give it a go man! Lets get some think tanking and make something happen here.
---
Gonna test the deck tomorrow at a small tournament, will write a recap of the event.
Than again, I do expect nothing, since it has been a couple of months since I had paper in hand
Regarding playing online, I do not play on MTGO (to expensive for my taste) and even IF I would have the deck online, I hardly have time for things like this
Greetings,
Kathal
PS: No Madcap Combo SB, but will test something different (small W splash for Wear//Tear and Mentor).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Gonna test the deck tomorrow at a small tournament, will write a recap of the event.
Than again, I do expect nothing, since it has been a couple of months since I had paper in hand
Regarding playing online, I do not play on MTGO (to expensive for my taste) and even IF I would have the deck online, I hardly have time for things like this
Greetings,
Kathal
PS: No Madcap Combo SB, but will test something different (small W splash for Wear//Tear and Mentor).
If you can, post the list that you played. Looking forward to it. ^^
I kinda want to run the full 8 1 mana cantrips, but I have not the room for it. They would also make Mentor way better :/
As for the Mentor plan, it would be basically - 4 Mancer (cause worst creature) - some stuff which is not needed, + 3 Mentors, + 1 Empty, + other stuff which is better than MD stuff (like Path vs Eldrazi, Wear/Tear if I suspect a lot of aritefacts/enchantments, Echoing Truth if I need to race,...). The reason, why I do not board the other "Mancer" effects out is, that Jace's Sanctum is bonkers in any midrangy match-up (the scry adds up really fast) and the Hommunculus are a great beater.
Than again, I need to find the other 6 SB cards. Probably some numbers of counter spells (another Negate, a Spell Pierce, Swan Song or something along this line) or something like Martal Coup/Secure the Wastes which could also be run in the MD (I did it with the old 4c build).
Note: Very experimental build which will need a ton of testing ^^
My list can be found in the previous post (I added some random stuff in the SB like Shatterstorm, Spell Pierce, Negate,...)
Round 1 vs Abzan:
Game 1 I keep a decent 2 card hand with Jace Sanctum, Gifts, Bolt, Sleight, 2 lands (mull to 6). He casts a IoK grabs the Bolt, I went with Sleight (failed to find a land) and missed two land drops in the next two turns
In the meantime he slams one Grim Flayer after the other but fails to get Delirium with 2 hits.
In the end, I was one turn short to go Gifts into combo, since I missed the land drop twice.
Game 2 I yoloed the turn 3 Mentor and just hoped, that he doesn't have a removal spell (he saw no creatures from me game 1). However, he had a decay for him and I failed to find either a Mancer effect (Homunculus or Sanctum) which would enable me to win on the spot nor a Mentor, which would have also won the game alone (had 5+ spells in hand).
So yeah, a little bit unlucky :/
Round 2 vs Grixis Delver
By far worst match-up imo.
He lands a turn 1 Delver into turn 2 flip + Delver + Snare for my Mancer, into turn 3 flip, attack for 6, Terminate my second Mancer + Spell Pierce my Spell Pierce, into attack for 6 and double Bolt.
Should have boarded the Mentors in, but forgot about them
Game 2 he has again a turn 1 Delver, which I bolt in his upkeep (cause he flipped again). After a counter war for a EoT Gifts I was able to stick a Jace Sanctum. I cast the second Gifts, he surgicals it. Okey....
I went of, casted something around 18 spells, and even WITH the scries from the Sanctum I failed to find either Storm spells, which would have just won the game and I lost two turns later, cause he went Surgical PiF into Bolt Snap Bolt :/
After the game ended, I looked where those two Storm cards were. Pre scries both were the cards right at the bottom of the bib
Feels bad man
Round 3 vs Ninja Delver Bear (aka Mono U Delver)
Game 1 I was able to stick a Homunculus on turn 3, played another one turn 4 and beat him to death with both of them. Those guys are a really fast clock, when you flip them ^^
Game 2 I comboed him out with Sanctum into Gifts while having counter back-up (Spell Pierce first, than Remand/Negate).
Thoughts about the list:
Man, it was soooooo much fun to cast Gifts again ^^
Than again, there were a couple of problems: 18 lands are not enough in my opinion. I really want another one. Sulfur Falls are strictly better than Spirebluff Canal due to the amount of 4 drops the list has (Gifts, Sanctum, Mancer/Homunculus + counter back-up). Jace Sanctum was as good as I expected the card to be. VS BGx he had no out but the one off Pulse vs it. Might run another one in the SB for these match-ups.
I have no idea for the SB plan, Mentor looks silly on paper in that deck, but I need to test way more to make any decent statement about him. Than again, I want to have a stable MD first, before worrying about the SB tbh.
Btw. it was the right call to only run 3 Gifts + 1 Scroll, since multiple Gifts are most of the times not necessary and very clunky (sadly). The Anticipates are bonkers, WHEN you have a Mancer effect in play. However, I think, that running Sleight of Hands over it (so overall 8 mana cantrips) is better, as long as you want to run something like Mentor in the SB.
The interaction suite was decent. I liked the Spell Pierce a lot and would have wanted another one MD. The Echoing Truth bought me some time in different match-ups.
Overall, the deck has potential, but I have the feeling, that something like Unstorm or Thing Ascension is a better deck, when you want to play something along this line
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Than again, I will test the normal Mancer version before testing this brainfart ^^
It is basically UR Control with the Gifts as combo finish. Than again, the RUg or even 4c Version might be better, since you do not need Sanctum in those lists (you can just run Channel + IV set-up).
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Regarding Metagame, use the Moder Nexus Rating which composes close to every Modern tournament, which gets published (which are a ton). It is also way more accurate than any other statistic I have found so far. Furthermore, the forum update is done by that table, which is also an indicator, that it is the best available. Besides this, it is also a nice site for a ton of useful modern exclusive articles ^^
Regarding Counters (general stuff):
The difference between this deck and something like UW Control and Esper Draw & Go is, that it is not a Control deck. Sure, I played a Control-ish version back with Seething Song, but the aim was still to win at turn 5 on average and if necessary on turn 4.
Especially the Channel+IV version plays more like UR Twin than something like "traditional" control. You have some numbers of removal and interaction elements and normally 1-3 Snappies (depends on the exact list and how you want to play it). It tries to generate Tempo in the early game, so that you can set-up a turn 4 Gifts into Turn 5 win.
However, running cards like Logic Knot here, is not really an option. Especially since you are running the Ramp Package with Steve instead of Search you cannot hold up Logic Knot on turn 2 (where you really want it). Furthermore, while Logic Knot is a card, which handles stuff, it does not help you find stuff. Hence, I would always run Condescend over it, since the Scry 2 is just huge, when you are trying to find 1 specific card.
Hence, for your list I would trade those two Logic Knots in for 1 Condescend and 1 Spell Pierce (see below for the reason)
Cantrip set-up:
What I have learned over the time I played this deck (now again and back at Seething Song times) was, that running less than 5 ways to find a Gifts makes you extremely clunky and slow. This is the reason, why @Lord Hazanko played 4 Scrolls AND 1 Dig (best card ever for the deck, so sad it is gone) along the other "cycling" effects (Izzet Charm, Remand, Electrolyze).
For me, I'm currently only 3 Gifts, since drawing more than 1 is most of the times just a waste of a card, since it is to clunky. At the same time, I added a low costed Cantip in there (be it a Sleight of Hands, Faithless Looting or something like Anticipate) which helps me to find the few MD silverbullets I have (Anger, Electrolyze, Negate and Echoing Truth in the URx Mancer version, or something like Verdict, Martial Coup, Colonnade, Storage Lands, Path and Helix in the 4c Version).
Also, not running 4 Serum Visions is something strange, especially since we are already in U and it is the best available Cantrip to find non colourless, non U instant stuff (Stirrings, Scroll) is strange. Finding those silverbullets, which is especially important currently, when you want those Angers asap in some match-ups, is just to important to skip something like Serum Visions.
Furthermore, as somebody who plays close to only Combo and Tempo in Modern it feels really wrong to not play 8+ Turn 1 plays, since the tempo loss most of the times makes just a to big impact (it basically turns your on the play into a on the draw and an on the draw into a Timewalk for the opp).
Board wipes:
Even though, the Gifts pile of the three board wipes + value card is something nice to have, it is not good. Why? Both Firespout and Pyroclams are currently strictly worse than Anger. Heck, they are so bad, that I wouldn't even run them in the SB currently. Hence, instead of playing a 2/1/1 split, run the full playset (or at least 3 and add a Cantrip) since you are always able to build a Revival, Anger, Snappy, land pile to get your anger back in your hand (there is no combination, where you are not able to cast Anger).
Which brings me to the next point, spot removal.
The current Tier 1 decks are (from most common to least common): Bant Eldrazi, Burn, Infect, Affinity, Jund, Dredge, Junk
The match-ups, where you really want Bolt are everything but Junk (as long as they do not run a Flayer version, where it is good again) and Dredge (even there it can buy you time and is better than something like Roast).
You want that Bolt vs all those linear decks, especially vs Infect, Affinity and Burn (Eidolon is a pain in the ass to deal with otherwise). Furthermore, you generally want a good interaction suite vs them, so you also want some cheap counter spells like Spell Pierce (awesome vs Burn and Infect, okey-ish vs Affinity). Than again, Spell Pierce also deals with other problematic cards, like a turn 1 discard spell, when you are on the play, or turn 3 Lilli, so the card is also useful vs other decks.
To get back to the removal suite.
I would just try to race Bant Eldrazi game 1, since we are the combo deck and they only have 4 TKS which can interact with us. Hence, I would skip on the Roasts and play instead more Bolts, which are also slowing them down (they run 5-7 Bird effects as another Temple basically). In close to every other match-up Bolt is just way better, including the Tier 2 decks where you just want to burn somebodies face from time to time (makes a natural Storm kill also easier (been there, done that)).
Hence, kick those two Roast and add 2 Lightning Bolts.
Regarding the Sideboard, I cannot give you a proper suggestion, but I just want to point out, that Sudden Shock is kinda useless vs Suicide Bloo (that UR aggro deck), since their main thread is Thing in the Ice.
Disrupting Shoal is garbage in this deck, just trust me on this one. Not enough U cards with a bad curve too and you cannot pitch some cards (like Gifts). Otherwise, the card is also pretty crappy, which does not make it better to run the card.
As for deck name, Ritual Gifts is the "official" name, when the deck had some good results at GPs.
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
The reason, why the Ramp version got "invented" was, to make the classic RUG Ritual Gifts version a turn faster (you can go turn 3 gifts into turn 4 win).
Regarding the second Revival, you can run it, but it is always the worst card in the deck (cause it does nothing on its own and need other cards to function properly). Though, I see the merits of running a second copy, but than you have to cut something else, which is the problem. Instead I would rather play an IV (Increasing Vengeance), since the copy + flashback interaction is highly relevant (the amount of Gifts I forced through with an IV are pretty absurd).
The Remand vs Steve problem is as big as Logic Knot vs Steve (or any other two mana spell you actually want to cast on turn 2). However, since we want in general a tempo based game, Remand is a lot better in this regard, even though if we have to cast it on turn 3 (or go turn 2 Remand, turn 3 Steve + Bolt, turn 4 Gifts with Counter backup). Just test the deck with Remand, you will understand what nonsense I'm talking here (second best card in the deck besides Gift) ^^
I just want to mention, that Bant Eldrazi runs between 3 and 4 Cavern of Souls, which makes Rejection a lot worse (still a good cards vs Tron, but Tron is not a problematic match-up imo).
In general, I want to test some different builds over the holidays, first and foremost the straight UR Mancer version, than the more UR Sanctum version (cause the Mance effect is just so bonkers) and than the 4c version, probably with Sanctum as a two off (still need to build a list for it though).
IMO, the Mancer effects are just to good to not play them. It reduces the cost for the combo turn by a lot and you can avoid running stuff like Mana Seism. However, Jace's Sanctum (the most resilient one) costs 4 mana, so you kinda want more of those 3 mana sweepers to clear the board before landing a "do nothing" card.
So, happy brewing and testing ^^
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
It is more fun than anything to talk about this deck tbh ^^
Also, I really like, that some discussion is coming up (even though only from 3-4 guys ).
Just some general things:
There are a lot of ways to play this deck, since the combo package are only 12-13 slots (including Gifts), which is close to nothing. If you are playing with the Jace Sanctum version, the package gets even smaller (cause you only need 2 Rituals, 1 Morphose, 1 Revival, 1 Grapeshot and 2 PiFs) while having a card, which is also decent outside of the combo (Sanctum). If you are planning to run the Mance pile (in w/e configuration) you are locked in the UR colours basically. You can easily splash any colour you want, but it always depends on what your goal is. For example, if you want to be more controlling, white is probably the betters plash since you get access to Path, Blessed Alliance and Mentor as a SB creature (or just Colonnade if you really want). Furthermore, it has Martial Coup (or Secure the Waste) as an alternative win con (generating a bunch of dudes is never bad, especially when you can generate 6+ vs Midrange, which lack the mass removal usually).
On the other hand, if you go the more explosive route with Electromancer and Homunculus, you can get those turn 3 kills from time to time, but either way, your turn 4 kills should be pretty much common norm.
As for other wincons, which you can tutor with Gifts, ever heard of Unburial Rites
You can easily reanimate something like Iona or Elesh Norn, which should seal the deal. Otherwise, you could reanimate Griselbrand (there was even a RUB version out there, which went reanimate Griselbrand, combo off via PiF and Storm XD) to get your combo engine going.
In general, if you want to run a non graveyard based win con along the Gifts storm pile, go with either Secure the Waste or Martial Coup. Both have their own merits and it also depends on the exact deck configuration. Note: You really want to run some storage lands in this build than, since those are just awesome.
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
The reason, why I currently like Jace's Sanctum is, that it is a 4 drop Mancer effect with some upside.
Why is that so important? IoK and Decay does not hit that card in the BGx match-up, so when it lands, it sticks (but when they find that 1 off Pulse (if they are even running it currently)). Also, it helps to find the combo too, since the amount of scrys you are doing is pretty insane (see my report, when I scried through 3/4 of my deck just to whiff, cause both Storm cards were at the bottom of the deck (would have needed to scry/draw 39 cards to get there)
The reason, why it is so good (or in general, why Mancer effects are so good in this shell), is because of this:
4 lands in play, 1 Ritual in hand, 1 Gifts, EOT from your opp
You go Gifts, grab 2 Rituals, Morphose, PiF (he gives you Morphose + PiF, cause everything else is a mistake ^^ )
Untap.
Go Ritual (1, 3R), Morphose (2, 3R 1U)
PiF (3, 0R, 1U) Note: you still have 3 untapped lands
3x Ritual (6, 6R, 1U) Note: two untapped lands
Gifts (7, 4R, 0U) - grab Grapeshot, Revival, Morphose, Remand
If he gives you Morphos + Remand (worst pile he can give you), you go cast Mophose (8, 4R, 1U), Flashback PiF (9, 0R, 1U), Flashback Revival (put Grapeshot on top of the bib) (9, 0R, 1U) flashback both Morphose (11, 2R, 1U), 1 land untapped, cast Grapehsot (12, 1R,1U) cast remand, targeting Grapeshot, cast Grapeshot again - deal 25 damage
As you can see, a Mancer effect makes the whole combo turn way easier to execute and also to play around hate (we have always at least 1 mana spare, if you draw another ritual even more). Furthermore, a Gifts with 2 Rituals + Morphose + PiF is exactly mana neutral, since you generate 6 mana and you need 6 mana for both Gifts + PiF. Hence, you can basically add this step before the last one to add 6 storm, which ups the damage to 37 damage. If you have two Mancer effects out, it gets even more absurd, since you are actually generating Mana with this "loop".
That is the reason, why I want to test more with the Mancer version, since it allows you to not play crappy cards like Channel the Suns (my poor japo foil copy ), Mana Seism and co. Yes, the Rituals are also rather bad on their own, but they can still be used to power out a turn 3 Gifts or Sanctum (if you are running Sanctum) into a possible turn 4 kill (had this so far once, where I went turn 1 cantrip, turn 2 Mancer, turn 3 Mancer + Remand, turn 4 combo off (paying 2 Mana for Gifts is more than dirty feeling)).
Regarding RUG, if you want to play a RUG deck, I suggest, that you are playing either RUG Delver or RUG Ruse, both good decks but sadly no "combo" decks (RUG Ruse can build a "hardlock" with Eternal Witness + Cryptic Command/Familiar's Ruse + Aether Vial and has a tutor package cause of Traverse). I feel, that those two decks are better than the so far developed RUG Ritual Gifts decks. Than again, if somebody comes up with something new, than this can change pretty fast ^^
Regarding the URw version, I tested a little bit more. While Mentor is bonkers, he is not as good, when people do not board out their removal, cause they have seen Electromancer and Homunculus. Hence, I'm thinking to try Thing in the Ice out, since it survives Bolt, which is the most important removal spell currently. Than again, this allows me to run a better cantrip set-up, which is always nice ^^
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Geosurge only lets you cast Artifacts and Creatures. So it doesn't really work when you want to be casting stuff like Gifts and PiF. Otherwise yeah, it would be totally awesome.
Small change: -2 Anticipate, +2 Sleight of Hands (are better with Mentor, that's why).
Round 1 vs Mono Red Burn 2-0
Game 1 I had Bolt + Remand + Morphose into Hommunculus, flip into combo (Turn 4 kill). Played the Morphose because of getting 3 Sorcs/Instants in the grave + to keep up Spell Pierce
Game 2 strange game. I stabilised at 7 life, he finds two Bolts, puts me down to 1 after playing draw and go forever. In the meantime I beat down with a flipped Hommunculus (while keeping up Bolt). He drew a blank for 3 turns while I drew 5 lands in a row (also unlucky) but in the end, I was able to Gifts him out with PiF into 4 Bolts.
Round 2 vs Infect 1-2
Cool match vs a full Japo Infect deck + a very good player
Game 1 he gets stuck on 3 lands with a lot of gas. I draw 2 Bolts to handle both Agents, Grapeshot a Hierarch + Arbor and comboed off after landing a Jace's Sanctum through a Spell Pierce
Game 2 I was on the receiving end of the mana problems. I kept: Polluted, Path, Remand, Sleight, Serum Visions, Gifts, Spell Pierce
I didn't find a land in the first 4 turns and died to a pumped up Infecter with three protection spells vs Path (Vines + 2x Defence)
Game 3 was very interesting. I shot down his board with Bolts/Grapehots/Path but cannot keep up with his threat density (he found 4 threats that game). So instead of trying to clean the board again, I went for Mancer instead of keeping Gifts mana open (6 mana which would have gotten me a Removal spell). Of course, he drew the Become Immense from the top
I was thinking it through, but there was no pile which could have handled that scenario IF I play the Mancer. I had not enough R and especially W mana available, especially how I tapped my mana :/
Round 3 vs BW Death and Eldrazies
Game 1 he gets stuck on 1 land + Vial, I bounce the Vial with Echoing Truth (felt dirty as heck) and killed him with 2 Hommunculus (didn't want to show him the combo).
SB: - random stuff (most of them were counters), +1 Wear/Tear, +2 Mentor, +1 Anger, +2 Paths, +1 Empty
Game 2 went pretty long and the board ended in this situation:
He: 2 cards in hand, 2 TKS + Displacer + Cage in play, 3 untapped mana
Me: Jace's Sanctum and unflipped non sum sic Hommunculus in play (forgot the trigger last turn), 2 Gifts, 1 Ritual, 1 Pif, 1 Bolt, 6 lands untapped + stacked graveyard.
Question: What is the line to win now?
I give you an tip, it is easy, you just need to play around the one blink, be it a discard or a blink on the flip from the Hommunculus.
I found it and failed horrible
You go Gifts (4 mana in pool, use the Hommunculus mana), grab Wear/Tear, Echoing Truth, Morphose, Revival. He gives you Morphose + Revival, you go Revival, get the Truth back, untap. If he blinks TKS now, you can let it resolve, since you have the win either way (if he takes Gifts, you can go PiF into win, cause you draw the Echoing Truth, same is true, if he takes the PiF and puts the other one in the graveyard, since the Revival is already in the grave and thus you do not need the second flashback (even than, I would have been able to Bolt him to death)).
If he blinks the Hommunculus, you go Morphose, into Echoing Truth into Gifts (tap Hommunculus for mana) and combo him out. This is able, cause of the Ritual in your hand (+ the PiF which makes the whole pile 1 mana less).
But what did I do?
I went for the first Gifts (4 mana remaining), go Revival + Morphose and than Gifts again
As you see, no mana left to cast that echoing truth and he snapped it with his TKS.
Me so dumb right here.
I untap, casted a couple of spells to get maybe to Mentor or Empty (both would have been outs here) but fail so and die horrible to my own punt.
Game 3 he had the nuts.
With nuts I MEAN nuts. Turn 1 Vial, turn 2 Thalia (Remand), Turn 3 Cage + RiP + Thalia (from Vial), I bolt her in my turn, he wents Leonin Arbiter into TKS into Arbiter into double Ghost Quarter.
Exactly nothing I can do here. I would need to draw a Path, than Wear/Tear and than removal spells for the two Arbiters to have a shot of winning, but since he attacks for 8 per turn, screw that.
Round 4 vs Bant Spirits
Game 1 Hommunculus beat down again + PiF into Bolts were enough to kill him
Game 2 I got again stuck on mana + he went Hierarch into Gheist into Queller for the Anger into Queller for the Bolt on Queller into Steel of the Godhand for the Gheist.
#welcome to standard magic
Game 3 we played draw and go for like forever. I played a Mancer, he a Wanderer + Hierarch and attacked each others for a couple of turns. Since he played turn 1 untapped Hallowed Fountain I knew, he had a Path in hand (or a Spell Pierce). In the meantime, I have two Angers in my hand not willing to cast them. I was able to counter a RiP with a Spell Pierce, which was great.
However, than I made a misplay, which costed me the game. He went CoCo, I went Spell Pierce, missing that he was able to pay for it. So I had to Remand it too, but I lost the value from Spell Pierce later on. Why? Cause when he recasted CoCo the next EoT from me, he only hit Queller, untapped and went Steel of the God hand on the Queller. If I would have had the Spell Pierce, which I wasted earlier, I would have been able to counter this (he played something already this turn)
So yeah, I went for Mentor, he Pathed it, I bounce it with Echoing Truth (that was the turn before the Spell Queller into Steel of the God hands btw) to establish some board threads.
My next turn was funny to say it this way. I went Gifts (capable to win this turn, if it resolves), he wents Spell Queller, grab that Gifts, I went Anger, he goes another Queller (third one btw), I go Bolt on the Queller with the Anger, clear the board but the Queller with the Steel of the God hands.
I was btw 1 red short for double Anger here.
The gifts grabbed the standard 3 Rituals + PiF pile.
I was at 6 at this point, the Queller was a 4/5. I would just need to dodge a pump for 2 (coco into 2 Lords or Hierarchs would work, as a Hierarch + pump from Township, he had 1 card in hand at that point).
Guess what he had in his hand? Right, another Steel of the Godhand
I lost that game because of two reasons:
a) I wasted that Spell Pierce
b) I fetched wrong so many turns ago (fetched basic Island instead of Steam Vents)
Thoughts:
Deck makes a ton of fun, though I noticed, that I enjoy the controlling route more than the Mancer route. Hence, I will likely play the 4c madness again, instead of the URw Mancer version EVEN THOUGH the Mancer effects are just broken in this deck.
Mentor was better than last time, especially since I played him more careful (kept a counter/bounce up or was able to generate at least some number of tokens at any given time). So, thumps up for him for now.
The Fastlands are garbage, I need the Sulfur Falls instead (had the problem already a couple of times, sucks big time), a Disenchant instead of a Wear/Tear in the SB (to have a RiP proof pile with bounce, wear/tear, disenchant) and some other smaller changes (I want a Desolated Lighthouse in my manabase for sure). 3 Gifts seem like the correct number for me, especially, when you are running the Scroll (though, I boarded it out in the fast match-ups, since it did nothing for me).
Feedback?
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Guy had a turn 2 Eidolon of Rhetoric game 1. I didn't have an out mainboard. Game 2 I board in Thing and the rest of the baord. He had a few fliers in play and I had a thing with one counter. He was playing conservativly. He played a hierarch with 4 lands in play. I decided to call his bluff and not remand it (which would flip my Thing and let me drop Stormbreath. Instead he then played gavony township and pumped his team. I couldn't draw a spell to flip thing and after playing Dragon he droped Drogskul Captain and pumped them some more and I lost.
0-1 (0-2)
Round 2 Thing in the ice (loss)
Game 1 I was a turn from winning (he went first). I did play out a Curious Homunculus which was bolted. Game 2 I won. He had Crypt and blew it to turn off Hounculus. I went off with gifts regardless while he had a kiln fiend in play turn 4. Game 3 was another mistake. He had leyline and crypt in play and I had a stormbreath dragon I could make monserous. This would cause him to take 4+7 and turn off g probe. Instead I waited with a manamorphose knowing he was dead next turn. He rebounded a distortion strike, cast 3 g probes and killed me with fiend.
0-2 (1-4)
Elves (win)
Hey a win for the night. He got me game one with the typical elves opener. My Curious Homunculus was too slow on the play. Game 2 I was able to seriously slow him down with izzet charm on his turn 1 elf, and flip Curious Homunculus next turn. I then played, rit, manamorphose, mana seism, and cast Epic Experiment with x=8. I put on the stack in this order: pif, rit, rit, remand target rit, remand target remand, serum vision. After pif I recast them all and used a grapeshot to kill him. Game 3 was similar. He failed to play scavenging ooze trying to put pressure one me. He let Curious Homunculus flip and I was able to cast a Electormancer on top of it. I ritualed into the Epic Experiment and hit gifts and that was gg.
1-2 (3-5)
Take aways:
This deck wasn't much better than my 4 color gifts list I played in this meta a month back. That list was far more forgiving of mistakes and you got the "oops Iona" hands. This deck doesn't mess around: if you screw up you lose. The sideboard seems really solid. The bedlam reveler could stand to be izzet charm. I had it once in hand and didn't really want to cast it. If it had been izzet charm it may have won the game against kiln fiend. Charm was really solid in the elves match too.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
legacy: Tes, Affinity, Dredge
modern: 4 color Gifts, ritual gifts, goryo's vengeance, affinity
Those filterlands are great in the control version, but kinda garbage in the more combo oriented versions. Why? Cause you cannot afford to only have a colourless land in your hand, or Island + filter, which prevents several line of sequences (like Cantip + keep up Spell Pierce/Snare or Bolt + Snare vs Infect). So Sulfur Falls are basically strictly better than Filterlands in those versions.
However, as soon as we are talking about a dedicated 3 colour version (mine is rather 2c + mini SB splash) than the Filterlands are getting better, especially the U/R one, since it helps you filter the splash colour(s) into the main colours. Hence, I wouldn't play it in the straight UR version and only in a 3-4c Control version.
@Ad Gift piles:
I'm only doing them, when I need to. Otherwise, I can just win (or set-up a win) of prevent my opponent from winning. It comes fairly often up, since I'm playing both a more controlling version as a more controlling playstyle with this deck. This is also a reason, why I win so often with just some Homunculus + Bolt beatdowns. Than again, you will get a feeling for those piles, if you are start grinding with this deck (or in general Gift decks).
@Ad Mentor:
Not sure, if Mentor is the correct pick as a secondary finisher. Yes, he is cheap and an incredible threat, but I found that cutey a couple of days ago (draft garbage ftw): Docent of Perfection. Is a better Mentor, cause not Bolt, Anger, Decay able and Path sees not that much play. Creates better tokens, when he flips (flying helps a lot) and is a decent beater on its own, even when you do not chain spells together.
However, I think, that a split between those two might be the better choice, since you can just Gifts for: Mentor, Docent, Revival, + random card (Snappy, Gifts, Thoughtflare (or in general a card draw spell), counter, removal,...). Will test him next time ^^
@Ad Jace's Sanctum:
That card is strictly worse than Mancer/Homunculus but also strictly better. The problem is the match-ups. For example, vs Bant Faeries, Jund, Junk and co I always want Sanctum, since the opponent cannot handle it at all (4 mana enchantments are close to unkillable in Modern, especially currently). However, when we are talking about the aggressive match-ups, than the card is just a big pile of garbage since it is just to slow. You would need a hand with 3 interaction spells, Sanctum and lands (and draw the last land when you want to cast it) just to be able to cast it and get a use out of it.
Hence, if I would run the Mancer version, I would play the one off Sanctum, since it is just such a good card in the match-ups, where the other Mancer effects sucks big time.
@Ad Sleight of Hands:
I made two questions for myself when I decided on the cantrip set-up:
1) How much time do I have (so how clunky can they be)?
2) What are my secondary win cons?
Since the current format is rather linear, I need interaction, the sooner the better. Hence, something like Anticipate (which is a bonkers card with a Mancer effect and decent otherwise) is not that good currently. This is also the reason, why I'm running only 3 Gifts but 1 Scroll. Scroll is able to grab some interaction pieces on Turn 2 or the Gifts on turn X, but Gifts does nothing till Turn 5 basically. Hence, from this point alone Sleight is a decent card. However, as soon as you think about point two, it gets way more interesting. I'm running Mentor/Docent as secondary win con, which reward you for chaining spells together. To be able, to chain spells together, you need both the mana (so the cheaper the cantrip, the better it is) as a cantrip, which allows you to grab the next spell immediately. Sleight does this job while Serum Visions for Example doesn't. That was the reason, why I played in UR Days Undoing Delver the 4th Sleight of Hands over the 4th Serum Visions.
Land base is under construction but will contain 1 Desolated Lighthouse and 1 Storage land (have to check first, which one I want to play).
That would be a Control URg Gifts version. The 2 Docent MD are a secondary win con, though, one might be enough (adding another Cantrip or Removal spell). The second Snappy is also only a value card, could also be replaced by something. Some things to point out:
- 61 cards, because drawing a combo card sucks, when you do not need it.
- 2 Anger MD, cause screw you aggressive decks
- 1 Thoughtflare, big mana instant draw spell. Tested it back in the days, was decent, but I would love to have a better alternative for it :/
- 1 Izzet Charm, utility card and can get rid of excessive lands in the late game.
I will be playing on another small tournament on Thursday, have yet to decide which version I'm gonna run ^^
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
No quotes, cause the quote option of this forum sucks big time (still better than on other forums but still meh at best):
Regarding Mentor, I think, you are messing up the match-ups, where you want to bring him in. Against the hyper aggressive decks, he is to slow, when you compare him to Gifts. It gets even worse, since he just dies to our own Anger the Gods (which Docent doesn't btw) which is by far the best removal spell currently.
Mentor is here in those hate cards match-ups, or at least I'm boarding him in in those. When you know, that the opponent brings in stuff like Surgical, Rest in Piece, Cage and co, you want a secondary win con after game 1. Mentor just offers the most here, since at least I want to have access to Paths and Wear/Tear post board and thus are already splashing white. The problem with Mentor is, that he is just a 2/2 and thus dies to Bolt very easy, the most played removal spell (by a big margin btw). It doesn't help, that he also dies to Decay, which sees also quite a lot of play in those removal match-ups.
As for the Cantrip case, please do not forget, that each deck is unique regarding this. For example, RUG Delver runs 4 Visions, 4 Scour and 4 Probes to get an early Mandrills in the game while finding stuff faster. Since the majority of important cards cost 1 mana, it can afford to run more 1 mana spells, since you do not block yourself with casting a cantrip. It also helps, that Scour is an instant and that you can pay life for Probe. Counter-Cat (4c Delver) on the other hand plays 4 Visions, 2 Sleight, 1 Faithless Looting (my configuration). There, those cards are used to find stuff or to act as a pseudo brainstorm in the mid game (Looting). Since the deck plays way more aggressive (4 Nacatls, 4 Delver, 3-4 Goyfs, 3-4 Mandrills, 0-2 Snappies) you want to slam threats while keeping counter-mana up (or removal mana). Hence, the first time you really will have time for a cantrip will be turn 3 (or turn 1, when you kept a Goyf hand).
The whole cantrip mechanics are a weird one and are very different between each other decks. Some decks do not run cantrips per se (Ad Nauseam) but still are able to execute their game plan accordantly. Other decks could play them (Meerfolk) but they would be bad in there.
Regarding that brew, Thoughtflare is the most efficient instant draw spell I could find. Drawing 4 for 5 with the discard clause is decent, especially since you have access to PiF and Snapcaster. I played the card back in Seething Song times, even back than it was okayish to say it this way.
The Research/Development "tech" has been discussed earlier. The plan was, that you have your 8 combo cards in the SB and go Research -> Gifts (finding the pieces) -> go off -> flashback Research -> Gifts again for the win.
It would basically allow you to run a normal URgx control deck with 2-3 Research and 3 Gifts as pure combo elements. The only problem is, since you already have 8 slots filled in your SB you do not have that much room for SB cards. Hence, you will need to pre sideboard some match-ups to have a shot to win it. It also makes the deck slower by a fair margin, which is okay, since you still have access to a combo finish + the Development aspect.
As for Silence/Autumn's Veil, not needed to say it this way. The U based counter decks are close to not existent currently.
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Regarding Days Undoing Delver, it is only a somewhat decent deck, when you are playing vs Midrange all the time, which the deck just crushes. However, it sucks big time vs anything remotely aggressive.
The problem with the "value" Research is, you cast it, grab those 4 cards and shuffle them into your bib. However, now you need to find those cards again, which is the ream problem. It is also a nightmare for sideboarding btw (what do you board in, what do you want to leave in the board, and so on (+ do not forget to de sideboard)).
But than again, go ahead, test stuff and report here. Every kind of information and testing is valuable, when only a few players are playing a deck. It is also not the first time I'm doing this legwork for a deck in Modern (the Shoal version of Griselbanned took me 1 year to develop and establish).
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
In the Thoughtflare slot, I'm thinking that Glimmer of Genius is a good, cheaper alternative. We don't care about the Energy, and it doesn't discard, but the Scry 2, then drawing definitely helps with digging.
No Sideboard, since this was just put together to see, if it even works. The thought process was, since I was killing opponents quite a lot with flipped Homunculus, I wanted to see, if I could build something similar compared to the old RUG Twin lists, which had with Goyf a good secondary win con (or rather the primary one when you look at the boarding plans).
I played 8 rounds vs Jund ft 4 Rise//Fall and 3 Snapcaster Mage and 4 rounds vs Grixis Delver.
Vs Blue Jund:
His 5 targeted Discard spells + 4 Rise/Falls were quite annoying, but most of the times I was able to recover using either Jace's Sanctum, casting value PiFs (thus drawing a couple of cards or even randomly killing him thanks to a Jace's Snactum), simply going Gifts -> stuff -> win or attacking with Mentor + couple of tokens + Homunculus.
Won 6, lost 2, in one loss I flooded out pretty badly (had an active Mentor + Homunculus vs 1 Flayer, 1 Goyf, 1 Kalitas (pumped once) and 2 EE @4/0). Was not able to find a PiF, Gifts or cantrips to win through that board. The other loss was, because I was mana screwed (drew only 3 lands over the whole game, while I had 2 Gifts + 1 PiF in hand). On the other hand, thanks to Gifts I was able to recover from some really bad positions, I just kinda want another Path like card, so that I can tutor for: Bolt, Path, Revial, Path like card. Sadly, there is no card like this in Modern (Deceleration in Stone would be the next best, but without Instant speed it is crappy).
Vs Grixis Delver:
Won 3 lost 1, the loss was a Delver, into flip + Delver + Thoughtseize, into flip + K-Command (discard, shoot damage), into lethal. Wasn't able to draw a Bolt or Path, after he got rid of the one Bolt in my hand with the Seize (drew it from the cantrip).
Deck looks fun and also quite good.
I want to point out, that you can still kill people on turn 4 with that line (only works, if you have one of the following in the hand: Revival, Morphose, Ritual)
Turn 1 + 2: do stuff and cast spells
Turn 3: cast Homunculus (he needs to survive)
Turn 4: float mana from Homunculus, transform him, cast Gifts with the flooting mana (1 land untapped) for the standard pile (2 Rituals, Morphose, PiF)
If you have the Ritual or Morphose in your hand, you can just win now. If you have the Revival, you go Revival a Ritual (from the Gifts pile IF the opp gave you Morphose + PiF), which results into the same. If you have drew the one off Pyretic Ritual, than you have to change the pile into: Ritual, Morphose, Revival, PiF to get the kill.
Now, you can do the standard combo execution (cast Rituals into PiF, cast them again, cast Gifts, search for the second combo half, kill the opp).
Note: You still need the landdrop (as any other turn 4 kill but the turn 2 Mancer into turn 3 Gifts one).
As for sideboard, I had a "interesting" idea (based on the comments earlier):
- 2 Desperate Ritual
- 1 Pyretic Ritual
- 1 Grapeshot
- 2 Past in Flames
+ 2 Keranos, God of Storms
+ 2 Research/Development
+ 2 interaction elements (+ the normal sideboarding elements).
This way you can grab the combo from the sideboard, if necessary. It makes the combo turn 2 mana more expensive and you need another U source, which can be problematic. So basically, you would do the following:
- cast research, grab 2 Rituals, 1 PiF, 1 Grapeshot (plays around a Surgical on something btw, if you do not want to play around it, go for 3 Rituals, 1 Pif)
- Gifts for 2 Rituals, 1 PiF, 1 Morphose (you will get PiF + Morphose usually, if the opp gives you another combination, it makes the whole combo turn easier)
untap now, 5 lands in play, Mancer effect in play
- Morphose into PiF (3 mana left - storm 2)
- 2 Rituals (7 mana - storm 4)
- Research for second half of the combo (5 mana - storm 5)
- Gifts for Revival, Ritual, Grapeshot, Morphose (2 mana - storm 6)
Here is the problem at the second Gifts (and why you need +2 mana in the worst case): This pile only works, if you have a Remand in the graveyard and thus you only need +1 mana compared to the normal combo line. However, if you do not have a Remand, since you trade the Morphose in for the Remand. You need +2 mana since the flashback cost on PiF costs 4 mana with a Mancer effect in play. However, at the same time, you could already have the Revival in hand (or the second Morphose) which would nullify this problem (you go Revival a Ritual, Morphose into it, cast Ritual and than cast Pif or in the case of the Morphose you get the required +1 mana)
However, if you have a Probe in the grave and the opponent gives you the revival, you can get back the Ritual with the Revival, go Morphose (that one chilling in your graveyard from the first PiF), grab that Ritual, cast it and than go Pif into Ritual, Revival the Grapeshot, Morphose it (from the second Gifts) and go Grapeshot into Remand Grapeshot.
Than again, if the opponent is low enough (and you have a Bolt in the graveyard) you do not even need to do the Grapeshot + Remand trick, which spares you the U mana you would need.
Bottom line is: If you use Research to grab the pieces, you need +1 mana most of the times, +2 mana if you have nothing in the grave/hand compared to a normal Gifts chain.
The only reason I would consider this is, that Development is not that bad per se, drawing 3 for 5 at Instant speed is okay-ish or getting the tokens, when you have enough removal in the deck to clean the way for them (Bolt/Path).
Changes I would do to the maindeck:
-1 Island, +1 Lighthouse (want to test it)
Sideboard would be something along this line:
2 Keranos, God of Storms,
2 Research//Development
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Path to Exile
1 Wear//Tear
1 Disenchant
1 Negate
1 Spell Pierce
1 Dispel
1 Pyroclasm
1 Hyrcals Recall
1 Docent of Perfection
Will play again this evening (small tournament again), will report probably tomorrow ^^
Normally if i'm looking for an enabler pile, i'll do something like (Goblin Electromancer, Curious Homunculus, Noxious Revival, Gifts Ungiven). With that you'll get a mana reducer and set up another Gifts for the combo turn.
How have you been doing recently? The format has sped up significantly since then, and the deck already felt kinda weak before delve creatures and the aggro menace that rules modern these days... Anyone with recent tournament experiences?
Yeah, forgot about Revival.
The thing is (aka the only reason why I even consider running Jace Sanctum) that it costs 4 mana and is an enchantment. This means against BGx that the opp has at best 2 outs in the deck vs this card, or up to 6 with the Discard spells.
Yeah, "wasting" a Ritual for it to cast it on Turn 3 is not so great, but at least it helps a lot by cantripping into additional action (Scry 1). I just need to test it to give a proper statement.
Btw. either way, it would only be a one of, since the other enablers are faster, which is more important now. If the format slows down again, I would consider running a second copy.
I sadly have no possibilities to run the deck currently (no events around here), so I cannot give you input regarding this.
However, I just want to point something out. When Ritual Gifts was at its prime (post Avacan Restored pre RTR), the meta was way more hateful than it is now. Delver was back in the days a really big deal (both UWR with Landfall + Gifts SB as RUG with Cryptics/Shackels) while you had the standard aggro decks back than (+ Kiki Pod, which was a nightmare to play against due to the fast clock and MD Archmage).
So yeah, I'm thinking, that a deck like this (which can play similar as Twin) is always somewhat good. Sure, the current amount of graveyard hate is annoying, but at least we got some new tools to deal with this (looking at you Madcap experiment).
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
No tournament experience. I've just been playing it online a bunch. It feels like the list iv'e been tuning is getting closer and closer. It's a lot different than the old Ritual Gifts lists we were playing in the past though. The new list revolves around sticking a mana reducer and running a Gifts chain through that for the win.
The list is still super fun though. Come back and give it a go man! Lets get some think tanking and make something happen here.
---
Here's the sideboard im working on.
2 Platinum Emperion
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Blood Moon
1 Dispel
1 Negate
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Shattering Spree
1 Shatterstorm
Mapcap->Emperion I think has some extreme potential here. We can essentially side into Blue Moon Madcap here.
----
Kathal, do you play online at all? I find that to be a great way to test decks.
Than again, I do expect nothing, since it has been a couple of months since I had paper in hand
Regarding playing online, I do not play on MTGO (to expensive for my taste) and even IF I would have the deck online, I hardly have time for things like this
Greetings,
Kathal
PS: No Madcap Combo SB, but will test something different (small W splash for Wear//Tear and Mentor).
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
If you can, post the list that you played. Looking forward to it. ^^
2 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
2 Arid Mesa
3 Spirebluff Canal
2 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
3 Island
1 Mountain
//Mancer effects
4 Goblin Electromancer
3 Curious Homunculus
3 Voracious Reader
1 Jace's Sanctum
//Cantrips
3 Gifts Ungiven
4 Serum Visions
2 Sleight of Hand
2 Anticipate
1 Merchant Scroll
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Remand
2 Spell Snare
1 Echoing Truth
1 Spell Pierce
1 Negate
//Combo cards
3 Desperate Ritual
2 Pyretic Ritual
2 Manamorphose
2 Past in Flames
1 Noxious Revival
1 Grapeshot
3 Monastery Mentor
2 Path to Exile
2 Wear/Tear
2 Path to Exile
1 Echoing Truth
1 Empty the Warrens
Some things I'm unsure so far.
I kinda want to run the full 8 1 mana cantrips, but I have not the room for it. They would also make Mentor way better :/
As for the Mentor plan, it would be basically - 4 Mancer (cause worst creature) - some stuff which is not needed, + 3 Mentors, + 1 Empty, + other stuff which is better than MD stuff (like Path vs Eldrazi, Wear/Tear if I suspect a lot of aritefacts/enchantments, Echoing Truth if I need to race,...). The reason, why I do not board the other "Mancer" effects out is, that Jace's Sanctum is bonkers in any midrangy match-up (the scry adds up really fast) and the Hommunculus are a great beater.
Than again, I need to find the other 6 SB cards. Probably some numbers of counter spells (another Negate, a Spell Pierce, Swan Song or something along this line) or something like Martal Coup/Secure the Wastes which could also be run in the MD (I did it with the old 4c build).
Note: Very experimental build which will need a ton of testing ^^
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
My list can be found in the previous post (I added some random stuff in the SB like Shatterstorm, Spell Pierce, Negate,...)
Round 1 vs Abzan:
Game 1 I keep a decent 2 card hand with Jace Sanctum, Gifts, Bolt, Sleight, 2 lands (mull to 6). He casts a IoK grabs the Bolt, I went with Sleight (failed to find a land) and missed two land drops in the next two turns
In the meantime he slams one Grim Flayer after the other but fails to get Delirium with 2 hits.
In the end, I was one turn short to go Gifts into combo, since I missed the land drop twice.
Boarding plan: -4 Electro Mancer, -1 Negate, -1 Desperate Riual, -1 Grapeshot +1 Spell Pierce, +3 Mentors, +2 Path to Exile, +1 Empty
Game 2 I yoloed the turn 3 Mentor and just hoped, that he doesn't have a removal spell (he saw no creatures from me game 1). However, he had a decay for him and I failed to find either a Mancer effect (Homunculus or Sanctum) which would enable me to win on the spot nor a Mentor, which would have also won the game alone (had 5+ spells in hand).
So yeah, a little bit unlucky :/
Round 2 vs Grixis Delver
By far worst match-up imo.
He lands a turn 1 Delver into turn 2 flip + Delver + Snare for my Mancer, into turn 3 flip, attack for 6, Terminate my second Mancer + Spell Pierce my Spell Pierce, into attack for 6 and double Bolt.
So yeah, close to nothing I could have done here
I boarded -1 Desperate Ritual, -1 Mancer, -1 Pyratic, -1 X, +1 Spell Pierce, 2 Paths, Empty
Should have boarded the Mentors in, but forgot about them
Game 2 he has again a turn 1 Delver, which I bolt in his upkeep (cause he flipped again). After a counter war for a EoT Gifts I was able to stick a Jace Sanctum. I cast the second Gifts, he surgicals it. Okey....
I went of, casted something around 18 spells, and even WITH the scries from the Sanctum I failed to find either Storm spells, which would have just won the game and I lost two turns later, cause he went Surgical PiF into Bolt Snap Bolt :/
After the game ended, I looked where those two Storm cards were. Pre scries both were the cards right at the bottom of the bib
Feels bad man
Round 3 vs Ninja Delver Bear (aka Mono U Delver)
Game 1 I was able to stick a Homunculus on turn 3, played another one turn 4 and beat him to death with both of them. Those guys are a really fast clock, when you flip them ^^
Game 2 I comboed him out with Sanctum into Gifts while having counter back-up (Spell Pierce first, than Remand/Negate).
Thoughts about the list:
Man, it was soooooo much fun to cast Gifts again ^^
Than again, there were a couple of problems: 18 lands are not enough in my opinion. I really want another one. Sulfur Falls are strictly better than Spirebluff Canal due to the amount of 4 drops the list has (Gifts, Sanctum, Mancer/Homunculus + counter back-up). Jace Sanctum was as good as I expected the card to be. VS BGx he had no out but the one off Pulse vs it. Might run another one in the SB for these match-ups.
I have no idea for the SB plan, Mentor looks silly on paper in that deck, but I need to test way more to make any decent statement about him. Than again, I want to have a stable MD first, before worrying about the SB tbh.
Btw. it was the right call to only run 3 Gifts + 1 Scroll, since multiple Gifts are most of the times not necessary and very clunky (sadly). The Anticipates are bonkers, WHEN you have a Mancer effect in play. However, I think, that running Sleight of Hands over it (so overall 8 mana cantrips) is better, as long as you want to run something like Mentor in the SB.
The interaction suite was decent. I liked the Spell Pierce a lot and would have wanted another one MD. The Echoing Truth bought me some time in different match-ups.
Overall, the deck has potential, but I have the feeling, that something like Unstorm or Thing Ascension is a better deck, when you want to play something along this line
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
3 Sulfur Falls
2 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Desolated Lighthouse
3 Island
1 Mountain
3 Snapcaster Mage
//Cantrips
4 Serum Visions
3 Anticipate
//Control stuff
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Remand
2 Spell Snare
1 Echoing Truth
1 Izzet Charm
1 Spell Pierce
1 Negate
1 Noxious Revival
2 Desperate Ritual
2 Pyretic Ritual
2 Manamorphose
1 Grapeshot
2 Past in Flames
3 Jace's Sanctum
3 Gifts Ungiven
Than again, I will test the normal Mancer version before testing this brainfart ^^
It is basically UR Control with the Gifts as combo finish. Than again, the RUg or even 4c Version might be better, since you do not need Sanctum in those lists (you can just run Channel + IV set-up).
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
4 Spirebluff Canal
2 Steam Vents
2 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
3 Island
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Gifts Ungiven
2 Desperate Ritual
1 Grapeshot
1 Noxious Revival
1 Increasing Vengeance
1 Past in Flames
2 Pyretic Ritual
2 Manamorphose
1 Channel the Suns
1 Mana Seism
4 Remand
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Compulsive Research
4 Serum Visions
4 Goblin Electromancer
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Electrolyze
2 Vapor Snag
If you want to read infos about how the deck evolved and how it works, read this blog: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/userblogs/musings-of-the-false-god
Regarding Metagame, use the Moder Nexus Rating which composes close to every Modern tournament, which gets published (which are a ton). It is also way more accurate than any other statistic I have found so far. Furthermore, the forum update is done by that table, which is also an indicator, that it is the best available. Besides this, it is also a nice site for a ton of useful modern exclusive articles ^^
Regarding Counters (general stuff):
The difference between this deck and something like UW Control and Esper Draw & Go is, that it is not a Control deck. Sure, I played a Control-ish version back with Seething Song, but the aim was still to win at turn 5 on average and if necessary on turn 4.
Especially the Channel+IV version plays more like UR Twin than something like "traditional" control. You have some numbers of removal and interaction elements and normally 1-3 Snappies (depends on the exact list and how you want to play it). It tries to generate Tempo in the early game, so that you can set-up a turn 4 Gifts into Turn 5 win.
However, running cards like Logic Knot here, is not really an option. Especially since you are running the Ramp Package with Steve instead of Search you cannot hold up Logic Knot on turn 2 (where you really want it). Furthermore, while Logic Knot is a card, which handles stuff, it does not help you find stuff. Hence, I would always run Condescend over it, since the Scry 2 is just huge, when you are trying to find 1 specific card.
Hence, for your list I would trade those two Logic Knots in for 1 Condescend and 1 Spell Pierce (see below for the reason)
Cantrip set-up:
What I have learned over the time I played this deck (now again and back at Seething Song times) was, that running less than 5 ways to find a Gifts makes you extremely clunky and slow. This is the reason, why @Lord Hazanko played 4 Scrolls AND 1 Dig (best card ever for the deck, so sad it is gone) along the other "cycling" effects (Izzet Charm, Remand, Electrolyze).
For me, I'm currently only 3 Gifts, since drawing more than 1 is most of the times just a waste of a card, since it is to clunky. At the same time, I added a low costed Cantip in there (be it a Sleight of Hands, Faithless Looting or something like Anticipate) which helps me to find the few MD silverbullets I have (Anger, Electrolyze, Negate and Echoing Truth in the URx Mancer version, or something like Verdict, Martial Coup, Colonnade, Storage Lands, Path and Helix in the 4c Version).
Also, not running 4 Serum Visions is something strange, especially since we are already in U and it is the best available Cantrip to find non colourless, non U instant stuff (Stirrings, Scroll) is strange. Finding those silverbullets, which is especially important currently, when you want those Angers asap in some match-ups, is just to important to skip something like Serum Visions.
Furthermore, as somebody who plays close to only Combo and Tempo in Modern it feels really wrong to not play 8+ Turn 1 plays, since the tempo loss most of the times makes just a to big impact (it basically turns your on the play into a on the draw and an on the draw into a Timewalk for the opp).
Board wipes:
Even though, the Gifts pile of the three board wipes + value card is something nice to have, it is not good. Why? Both Firespout and Pyroclams are currently strictly worse than Anger. Heck, they are so bad, that I wouldn't even run them in the SB currently. Hence, instead of playing a 2/1/1 split, run the full playset (or at least 3 and add a Cantrip) since you are always able to build a Revival, Anger, Snappy, land pile to get your anger back in your hand (there is no combination, where you are not able to cast Anger).
Which brings me to the next point, spot removal.
The current Tier 1 decks are (from most common to least common): Bant Eldrazi, Burn, Infect, Affinity, Jund, Dredge, Junk
The match-ups, where you really want Bolt are everything but Junk (as long as they do not run a Flayer version, where it is good again) and Dredge (even there it can buy you time and is better than something like Roast).
You want that Bolt vs all those linear decks, especially vs Infect, Affinity and Burn (Eidolon is a pain in the ass to deal with otherwise). Furthermore, you generally want a good interaction suite vs them, so you also want some cheap counter spells like Spell Pierce (awesome vs Burn and Infect, okey-ish vs Affinity). Than again, Spell Pierce also deals with other problematic cards, like a turn 1 discard spell, when you are on the play, or turn 3 Lilli, so the card is also useful vs other decks.
To get back to the removal suite.
I would just try to race Bant Eldrazi game 1, since we are the combo deck and they only have 4 TKS which can interact with us. Hence, I would skip on the Roasts and play instead more Bolts, which are also slowing them down (they run 5-7 Bird effects as another Temple basically). In close to every other match-up Bolt is just way better, including the Tier 2 decks where you just want to burn somebodies face from time to time (makes a natural Storm kill also easier (been there, done that)).
Hence, kick those two Roast and add 2 Lightning Bolts.
Regarding the Sideboard, I cannot give you a proper suggestion, but I just want to point out, that Sudden Shock is kinda useless vs Suicide Bloo (that UR aggro deck), since their main thread is Thing in the Ice.
Disrupting Shoal is garbage in this deck, just trust me on this one. Not enough U cards with a bad curve too and you cannot pitch some cards (like Gifts). Otherwise, the card is also pretty crappy, which does not make it better to run the card.
As for deck name, Ritual Gifts is the "official" name, when the deck had some good results at GPs.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
If you want to play a more control game with the Combo as one of the win cons, than look at the 4c version (UWrg), see here: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/554956-ritual-gifts?comment=218
Regarding the second Revival, you can run it, but it is always the worst card in the deck (cause it does nothing on its own and need other cards to function properly). Though, I see the merits of running a second copy, but than you have to cut something else, which is the problem. Instead I would rather play an IV (Increasing Vengeance), since the copy + flashback interaction is highly relevant (the amount of Gifts I forced through with an IV are pretty absurd).
The Remand vs Steve problem is as big as Logic Knot vs Steve (or any other two mana spell you actually want to cast on turn 2). However, since we want in general a tempo based game, Remand is a lot better in this regard, even though if we have to cast it on turn 3 (or go turn 2 Remand, turn 3 Steve + Bolt, turn 4 Gifts with Counter backup). Just test the deck with Remand, you will understand what nonsense I'm talking here (second best card in the deck besides Gift) ^^
I just want to mention, that Bant Eldrazi runs between 3 and 4 Cavern of Souls, which makes Rejection a lot worse (still a good cards vs Tron, but Tron is not a problematic match-up imo).
In general, I want to test some different builds over the holidays, first and foremost the straight UR Mancer version, than the more UR Sanctum version (cause the Mance effect is just so bonkers) and than the 4c version, probably with Sanctum as a two off (still need to build a list for it though).
IMO, the Mancer effects are just to good to not play them. It reduces the cost for the combo turn by a lot and you can avoid running stuff like Mana Seism. However, Jace's Sanctum (the most resilient one) costs 4 mana, so you kinda want more of those 3 mana sweepers to clear the board before landing a "do nothing" card.
So, happy brewing and testing ^^
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Also, I really like, that some discussion is coming up (even though only from 3-4 guys ).
Just some general things:
There are a lot of ways to play this deck, since the combo package are only 12-13 slots (including Gifts), which is close to nothing. If you are playing with the Jace Sanctum version, the package gets even smaller (cause you only need 2 Rituals, 1 Morphose, 1 Revival, 1 Grapeshot and 2 PiFs) while having a card, which is also decent outside of the combo (Sanctum). If you are planning to run the Mance pile (in w/e configuration) you are locked in the UR colours basically. You can easily splash any colour you want, but it always depends on what your goal is. For example, if you want to be more controlling, white is probably the betters plash since you get access to Path, Blessed Alliance and Mentor as a SB creature (or just Colonnade if you really want). Furthermore, it has Martial Coup (or Secure the Waste) as an alternative win con (generating a bunch of dudes is never bad, especially when you can generate 6+ vs Midrange, which lack the mass removal usually).
On the other hand, if you go the more explosive route with Electromancer and Homunculus, you can get those turn 3 kills from time to time, but either way, your turn 4 kills should be pretty much common norm.
As for other wincons, which you can tutor with Gifts, ever heard of Unburial Rites
You can easily reanimate something like Iona or Elesh Norn, which should seal the deal. Otherwise, you could reanimate Griselbrand (there was even a RUB version out there, which went reanimate Griselbrand, combo off via PiF and Storm XD) to get your combo engine going.
In general, if you want to run a non graveyard based win con along the Gifts storm pile, go with either Secure the Waste or Martial Coup. Both have their own merits and it also depends on the exact deck configuration. Note: You really want to run some storage lands in this build than, since those are just awesome.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Why is that so important? IoK and Decay does not hit that card in the BGx match-up, so when it lands, it sticks (but when they find that 1 off Pulse (if they are even running it currently)). Also, it helps to find the combo too, since the amount of scrys you are doing is pretty insane (see my report, when I scried through 3/4 of my deck just to whiff, cause both Storm cards were at the bottom of the deck (would have needed to scry/draw 39 cards to get there)
The reason, why it is so good (or in general, why Mancer effects are so good in this shell), is because of this:
4 lands in play, 1 Ritual in hand, 1 Gifts, EOT from your opp
You go Gifts, grab 2 Rituals, Morphose, PiF (he gives you Morphose + PiF, cause everything else is a mistake ^^ )
Untap.
Go Ritual (1, 3R), Morphose (2, 3R 1U)
PiF (3, 0R, 1U) Note: you still have 3 untapped lands
3x Ritual (6, 6R, 1U) Note: two untapped lands
Gifts (7, 4R, 0U) - grab Grapeshot, Revival, Morphose, Remand
If he gives you Morphos + Remand (worst pile he can give you), you go cast Mophose (8, 4R, 1U), Flashback PiF (9, 0R, 1U), Flashback Revival (put Grapeshot on top of the bib) (9, 0R, 1U) flashback both Morphose (11, 2R, 1U), 1 land untapped, cast Grapehsot (12, 1R,1U) cast remand, targeting Grapeshot, cast Grapeshot again - deal 25 damage
As you can see, a Mancer effect makes the whole combo turn way easier to execute and also to play around hate (we have always at least 1 mana spare, if you draw another ritual even more). Furthermore, a Gifts with 2 Rituals + Morphose + PiF is exactly mana neutral, since you generate 6 mana and you need 6 mana for both Gifts + PiF. Hence, you can basically add this step before the last one to add 6 storm, which ups the damage to 37 damage. If you have two Mancer effects out, it gets even more absurd, since you are actually generating Mana with this "loop".
That is the reason, why I want to test more with the Mancer version, since it allows you to not play crappy cards like Channel the Suns (my poor japo foil copy ), Mana Seism and co. Yes, the Rituals are also rather bad on their own, but they can still be used to power out a turn 3 Gifts or Sanctum (if you are running Sanctum) into a possible turn 4 kill (had this so far once, where I went turn 1 cantrip, turn 2 Mancer, turn 3 Mancer + Remand, turn 4 combo off (paying 2 Mana for Gifts is more than dirty feeling)).
Regarding RUG, if you want to play a RUG deck, I suggest, that you are playing either RUG Delver or RUG Ruse, both good decks but sadly no "combo" decks (RUG Ruse can build a "hardlock" with Eternal Witness + Cryptic Command/Familiar's Ruse + Aether Vial and has a tutor package cause of Traverse). I feel, that those two decks are better than the so far developed RUG Ritual Gifts decks. Than again, if somebody comes up with something new, than this can change pretty fast ^^
Regarding the URw version, I tested a little bit more. While Mentor is bonkers, he is not as good, when people do not board out their removal, cause they have seen Electromancer and Homunculus. Hence, I'm thinking to try Thing in the Ice out, since it survives Bolt, which is the most important removal spell currently. Than again, this allows me to run a better cantrip set-up, which is always nice ^^
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I am very interested in playing this deck, could you please show me a stock list?
Current Decklist- https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/732750#online
Sideboard Guide- https://www.scribd.com/document/384901650/Sideboard-Guide-to-Squeeflagrate
Forum- https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/582542-raphael-levys-loam-pox?page=37
So, the closest to a list, which sees regular play is this one: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/554956-ritual-gifts?comment=237 (there are some updates after that post, so read those too).
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
2 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
2 Arid Mesa
3 Spirebluff Canal
2 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
3 Island
1 Mountain
//Mancer effects
4 Goblin Electromancer
3 Curious Homunculus
3 Voracious Reader
1 Jace's Sanctum
//Cantrips
3 Gifts Ungiven
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
1 Merchant Scroll
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Remand
2 Spell Snare
1 Echoing Truth
1 Spell Pierce
1 Negate
//Combo cards
3 Desperate Ritual
2 Pyretic Ritual
2 Manamorphose
2 Past in Flames
1 Noxious Revival
1 Grapeshot
3 Monastery Mentor
2 Path to Exile
2 Wear/Tear
2 Path to Exile
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Hyrkalls Recall
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Spell Pierce
Small change: -2 Anticipate, +2 Sleight of Hands (are better with Mentor, that's why).
Round 1 vs Mono Red Burn 2-0
Game 1 I had Bolt + Remand + Morphose into Hommunculus, flip into combo (Turn 4 kill). Played the Morphose because of getting 3 Sorcs/Instants in the grave + to keep up Spell Pierce
Game 2 strange game. I stabilised at 7 life, he finds two Bolts, puts me down to 1 after playing draw and go forever. In the meantime I beat down with a flipped Hommunculus (while keeping up Bolt). He drew a blank for 3 turns while I drew 5 lands in a row (also unlucky) but in the end, I was able to Gifts him out with PiF into 4 Bolts.
Round 2 vs Infect 1-2
Cool match vs a full Japo Infect deck + a very good player
Game 1 he gets stuck on 3 lands with a lot of gas. I draw 2 Bolts to handle both Agents, Grapeshot a Hierarch + Arbor and comboed off after landing a Jace's Sanctum through a Spell Pierce
Game 2 I was on the receiving end of the mana problems. I kept: Polluted, Path, Remand, Sleight, Serum Visions, Gifts, Spell Pierce
I didn't find a land in the first 4 turns and died to a pumped up Infecter with three protection spells vs Path (Vines + 2x Defence)
Game 3 was very interesting. I shot down his board with Bolts/Grapehots/Path but cannot keep up with his threat density (he found 4 threats that game). So instead of trying to clean the board again, I went for Mancer instead of keeping Gifts mana open (6 mana which would have gotten me a Removal spell). Of course, he drew the Become Immense from the top
I was thinking it through, but there was no pile which could have handled that scenario IF I play the Mancer. I had not enough R and especially W mana available, especially how I tapped my mana :/
Round 3 vs BW Death and Eldrazies
Game 1 he gets stuck on 1 land + Vial, I bounce the Vial with Echoing Truth (felt dirty as heck) and killed him with 2 Hommunculus (didn't want to show him the combo).
SB: - random stuff (most of them were counters), +1 Wear/Tear, +2 Mentor, +1 Anger, +2 Paths, +1 Empty
Game 2 went pretty long and the board ended in this situation:
He: 2 cards in hand, 2 TKS + Displacer + Cage in play, 3 untapped mana
Me: Jace's Sanctum and unflipped non sum sic Hommunculus in play (forgot the trigger last turn), 2 Gifts, 1 Ritual, 1 Pif, 1 Bolt, 6 lands untapped + stacked graveyard.
Question: What is the line to win now?
I give you an tip, it is easy, you just need to play around the one blink, be it a discard or a blink on the flip from the Hommunculus.
I found it and failed horrible
You go Gifts (4 mana in pool, use the Hommunculus mana), grab Wear/Tear, Echoing Truth, Morphose, Revival. He gives you Morphose + Revival, you go Revival, get the Truth back, untap. If he blinks TKS now, you can let it resolve, since you have the win either way (if he takes Gifts, you can go PiF into win, cause you draw the Echoing Truth, same is true, if he takes the PiF and puts the other one in the graveyard, since the Revival is already in the grave and thus you do not need the second flashback (even than, I would have been able to Bolt him to death)).
If he blinks the Hommunculus, you go Morphose, into Echoing Truth into Gifts (tap Hommunculus for mana) and combo him out. This is able, cause of the Ritual in your hand (+ the PiF which makes the whole pile 1 mana less).
But what did I do?
I went for the first Gifts (4 mana remaining), go Revival + Morphose and than Gifts again
As you see, no mana left to cast that echoing truth and he snapped it with his TKS.
Me so dumb right here.
I untap, casted a couple of spells to get maybe to Mentor or Empty (both would have been outs here) but fail so and die horrible to my own punt.
Game 3 he had the nuts.
With nuts I MEAN nuts. Turn 1 Vial, turn 2 Thalia (Remand), Turn 3 Cage + RiP + Thalia (from Vial), I bolt her in my turn, he wents Leonin Arbiter into TKS into Arbiter into double Ghost Quarter.
Exactly nothing I can do here. I would need to draw a Path, than Wear/Tear and than removal spells for the two Arbiters to have a shot of winning, but since he attacks for 8 per turn, screw that.
Round 4 vs Bant Spirits
Game 1 Hommunculus beat down again + PiF into Bolts were enough to kill him
Game 2 I got again stuck on mana + he went Hierarch into Gheist into Queller for the Anger into Queller for the Bolt on Queller into Steel of the Godhand for the Gheist.
#welcome to standard magic
Game 3 we played draw and go for like forever. I played a Mancer, he a Wanderer + Hierarch and attacked each others for a couple of turns. Since he played turn 1 untapped Hallowed Fountain I knew, he had a Path in hand (or a Spell Pierce). In the meantime, I have two Angers in my hand not willing to cast them. I was able to counter a RiP with a Spell Pierce, which was great.
However, than I made a misplay, which costed me the game. He went CoCo, I went Spell Pierce, missing that he was able to pay for it. So I had to Remand it too, but I lost the value from Spell Pierce later on. Why? Cause when he recasted CoCo the next EoT from me, he only hit Queller, untapped and went Steel of the God hand on the Queller. If I would have had the Spell Pierce, which I wasted earlier, I would have been able to counter this (he played something already this turn)
So yeah, I went for Mentor, he Pathed it, I bounce it with Echoing Truth (that was the turn before the Spell Queller into Steel of the God hands btw) to establish some board threads.
My next turn was funny to say it this way. I went Gifts (capable to win this turn, if it resolves), he wents Spell Queller, grab that Gifts, I went Anger, he goes another Queller (third one btw), I go Bolt on the Queller with the Anger, clear the board but the Queller with the Steel of the God hands.
I was btw 1 red short for double Anger here.
The gifts grabbed the standard 3 Rituals + PiF pile.
I was at 6 at this point, the Queller was a 4/5. I would just need to dodge a pump for 2 (coco into 2 Lords or Hierarchs would work, as a Hierarch + pump from Township, he had 1 card in hand at that point).
Guess what he had in his hand? Right, another Steel of the Godhand
I lost that game because of two reasons:
a) I wasted that Spell Pierce
b) I fetched wrong so many turns ago (fetched basic Island instead of Steam Vents)
Thoughts:
Deck makes a ton of fun, though I noticed, that I enjoy the controlling route more than the Mancer route. Hence, I will likely play the 4c madness again, instead of the URw Mancer version EVEN THOUGH the Mancer effects are just broken in this deck.
Mentor was better than last time, especially since I played him more careful (kept a counter/bounce up or was able to generate at least some number of tokens at any given time). So, thumps up for him for now.
The Fastlands are garbage, I need the Sulfur Falls instead (had the problem already a couple of times, sucks big time), a Disenchant instead of a Wear/Tear in the SB (to have a RiP proof pile with bounce, wear/tear, disenchant) and some other smaller changes (I want a Desolated Lighthouse in my manabase for sure). 3 Gifts seem like the correct number for me, especially, when you are running the Scroll (though, I boarded it out in the fast match-ups, since it did nothing for me).
Feedback?
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
4 Manamorphose
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Gifts Ungiven
4 Remand
1 Polluted Delta
2 Grapeshot
1 Increasing Vengeance
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
1 Mana Seism
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Island
3 Pyretic Ritual
4 Goblin Electromancer
2 Empty the Warrens
2 Steam Vents
2 Past in Flames
3 Curious Homunculus
1 Epic Experiment
2 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Shivan Reef
1 Mountain
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Blood Moon
2 Unsubstantiate
1 Bedlam Reveler
2 Izzet Charm
Round 1 bant spirits (loss)
Guy had a turn 2 Eidolon of Rhetoric game 1. I didn't have an out mainboard. Game 2 I board in Thing and the rest of the baord. He had a few fliers in play and I had a thing with one counter. He was playing conservativly. He played a hierarch with 4 lands in play. I decided to call his bluff and not remand it (which would flip my Thing and let me drop Stormbreath. Instead he then played gavony township and pumped his team. I couldn't draw a spell to flip thing and after playing Dragon he droped Drogskul Captain and pumped them some more and I lost.
0-1 (0-2)
Round 2 Thing in the ice (loss)
Game 1 I was a turn from winning (he went first). I did play out a Curious Homunculus which was bolted. Game 2 I won. He had Crypt and blew it to turn off Hounculus. I went off with gifts regardless while he had a kiln fiend in play turn 4. Game 3 was another mistake. He had leyline and crypt in play and I had a stormbreath dragon I could make monserous. This would cause him to take 4+7 and turn off g probe. Instead I waited with a manamorphose knowing he was dead next turn. He rebounded a distortion strike, cast 3 g probes and killed me with fiend.
0-2 (1-4)
Elves (win)
Hey a win for the night. He got me game one with the typical elves opener. My Curious Homunculus was too slow on the play. Game 2 I was able to seriously slow him down with izzet charm on his turn 1 elf, and flip Curious Homunculus next turn. I then played, rit, manamorphose, mana seism, and cast Epic Experiment with x=8. I put on the stack in this order: pif, rit, rit, remand target rit, remand target remand, serum vision. After pif I recast them all and used a grapeshot to kill him. Game 3 was similar. He failed to play scavenging ooze trying to put pressure one me. He let Curious Homunculus flip and I was able to cast a Electormancer on top of it. I ritualed into the Epic Experiment and hit gifts and that was gg.
1-2 (3-5)
Take aways:
This deck wasn't much better than my 4 color gifts list I played in this meta a month back. That list was far more forgiving of mistakes and you got the "oops Iona" hands. This deck doesn't mess around: if you screw up you lose. The sideboard seems really solid. The bedlam reveler could stand to be izzet charm. I had it once in hand and didn't really want to cast it. If it had been izzet charm it may have won the game against kiln fiend. Charm was really solid in the elves match too.
modern: 4 color Gifts, ritual gifts, goryo's vengeance, affinity
vintage: burning oath
my affinity primer
http://legitmtg.com/competitive/metalcrafting-for-the-win-an-affinity-primer/
Those filterlands are great in the control version, but kinda garbage in the more combo oriented versions. Why? Cause you cannot afford to only have a colourless land in your hand, or Island + filter, which prevents several line of sequences (like Cantip + keep up Spell Pierce/Snare or Bolt + Snare vs Infect). So Sulfur Falls are basically strictly better than Filterlands in those versions.
However, as soon as we are talking about a dedicated 3 colour version (mine is rather 2c + mini SB splash) than the Filterlands are getting better, especially the U/R one, since it helps you filter the splash colour(s) into the main colours. Hence, I wouldn't play it in the straight UR version and only in a 3-4c Control version.
@Ad Gift piles:
I'm only doing them, when I need to. Otherwise, I can just win (or set-up a win) of prevent my opponent from winning. It comes fairly often up, since I'm playing both a more controlling version as a more controlling playstyle with this deck. This is also a reason, why I win so often with just some Homunculus + Bolt beatdowns. Than again, you will get a feeling for those piles, if you are start grinding with this deck (or in general Gift decks).
@Ad Mentor:
Not sure, if Mentor is the correct pick as a secondary finisher. Yes, he is cheap and an incredible threat, but I found that cutey a couple of days ago (draft garbage ftw): Docent of Perfection. Is a better Mentor, cause not Bolt, Anger, Decay able and Path sees not that much play. Creates better tokens, when he flips (flying helps a lot) and is a decent beater on its own, even when you do not chain spells together.
However, I think, that a split between those two might be the better choice, since you can just Gifts for: Mentor, Docent, Revival, + random card (Snappy, Gifts, Thoughtflare (or in general a card draw spell), counter, removal,...). Will test him next time ^^
@Ad Jace's Sanctum:
That card is strictly worse than Mancer/Homunculus but also strictly better. The problem is the match-ups. For example, vs Bant Faeries, Jund, Junk and co I always want Sanctum, since the opponent cannot handle it at all (4 mana enchantments are close to unkillable in Modern, especially currently). However, when we are talking about the aggressive match-ups, than the card is just a big pile of garbage since it is just to slow. You would need a hand with 3 interaction spells, Sanctum and lands (and draw the last land when you want to cast it) just to be able to cast it and get a use out of it.
Hence, if I would run the Mancer version, I would play the one off Sanctum, since it is just such a good card in the match-ups, where the other Mancer effects sucks big time.
@Ad Sleight of Hands:
I made two questions for myself when I decided on the cantrip set-up:
1) How much time do I have (so how clunky can they be)?
2) What are my secondary win cons?
Since the current format is rather linear, I need interaction, the sooner the better. Hence, something like Anticipate (which is a bonkers card with a Mancer effect and decent otherwise) is not that good currently. This is also the reason, why I'm running only 3 Gifts but 1 Scroll. Scroll is able to grab some interaction pieces on Turn 2 or the Gifts on turn X, but Gifts does nothing till Turn 5 basically. Hence, from this point alone Sleight is a decent card. However, as soon as you think about point two, it gets way more interesting. I'm running Mentor/Docent as secondary win con, which reward you for chaining spells together. To be able, to chain spells together, you need both the mana (so the cheaper the cantrip, the better it is) as a cantrip, which allows you to grab the next spell immediately. Sleight does this job while Serum Visions for Example doesn't. That was the reason, why I played in UR Days Undoing Delver the 4th Sleight of Hands over the 4th Serum Visions.
As for deck, brewing time:
22 Island
//Combo
3 Gifts Ungiven
2 Past in Flames
1 Channel the Suns
1 Grapeshot
1 Pyretic Ritual
1 Desperate Ritual
1 Mana Seism
1 Manamorphose
1 Noxious Revival
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Izzet Charm
1 Electrolyze
2 Anger of the Gods
//Counter
1 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
4 Remand
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Docent of Perfection
//Cantrips
4 Serum Visions
2 Sleight of Hand
1 Anticipate
1 Thoughtflare
Land base is under construction but will contain 1 Desolated Lighthouse and 1 Storage land (have to check first, which one I want to play).
That would be a Control URg Gifts version. The 2 Docent MD are a secondary win con, though, one might be enough (adding another Cantrip or Removal spell). The second Snappy is also only a value card, could also be replaced by something. Some things to point out:
- 61 cards, because drawing a combo card sucks, when you do not need it.
- 2 Anger MD, cause screw you aggressive decks
- 1 Thoughtflare, big mana instant draw spell. Tested it back in the days, was decent, but I would love to have a better alternative for it :/
- 1 Izzet Charm, utility card and can get rid of excessive lands in the late game.
I will be playing on another small tournament on Thursday, have yet to decide which version I'm gonna run ^^
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Regarding Mentor, I think, you are messing up the match-ups, where you want to bring him in. Against the hyper aggressive decks, he is to slow, when you compare him to Gifts. It gets even worse, since he just dies to our own Anger the Gods (which Docent doesn't btw) which is by far the best removal spell currently.
Mentor is here in those hate cards match-ups, or at least I'm boarding him in in those. When you know, that the opponent brings in stuff like Surgical, Rest in Piece, Cage and co, you want a secondary win con after game 1. Mentor just offers the most here, since at least I want to have access to Paths and Wear/Tear post board and thus are already splashing white. The problem with Mentor is, that he is just a 2/2 and thus dies to Bolt very easy, the most played removal spell (by a big margin btw). It doesn't help, that he also dies to Decay, which sees also quite a lot of play in those removal match-ups.
As for the Cantrip case, please do not forget, that each deck is unique regarding this. For example, RUG Delver runs 4 Visions, 4 Scour and 4 Probes to get an early Mandrills in the game while finding stuff faster. Since the majority of important cards cost 1 mana, it can afford to run more 1 mana spells, since you do not block yourself with casting a cantrip. It also helps, that Scour is an instant and that you can pay life for Probe. Counter-Cat (4c Delver) on the other hand plays 4 Visions, 2 Sleight, 1 Faithless Looting (my configuration). There, those cards are used to find stuff or to act as a pseudo brainstorm in the mid game (Looting). Since the deck plays way more aggressive (4 Nacatls, 4 Delver, 3-4 Goyfs, 3-4 Mandrills, 0-2 Snappies) you want to slam threats while keeping counter-mana up (or removal mana). Hence, the first time you really will have time for a cantrip will be turn 3 (or turn 1, when you kept a Goyf hand).
The whole cantrip mechanics are a weird one and are very different between each other decks. Some decks do not run cantrips per se (Ad Nauseam) but still are able to execute their game plan accordantly. Other decks could play them (Meerfolk) but they would be bad in there.
Regarding that brew, Thoughtflare is the most efficient instant draw spell I could find. Drawing 4 for 5 with the discard clause is decent, especially since you have access to PiF and Snapcaster. I played the card back in Seething Song times, even back than it was okayish to say it this way.
The Research/Development "tech" has been discussed earlier. The plan was, that you have your 8 combo cards in the SB and go Research -> Gifts (finding the pieces) -> go off -> flashback Research -> Gifts again for the win.
It would basically allow you to run a normal URgx control deck with 2-3 Research and 3 Gifts as pure combo elements. The only problem is, since you already have 8 slots filled in your SB you do not have that much room for SB cards. Hence, you will need to pre sideboard some match-ups to have a shot to win it. It also makes the deck slower by a fair margin, which is okay, since you still have access to a combo finish + the Development aspect.
As for Silence/Autumn's Veil, not needed to say it this way. The U based counter decks are close to not existent currently.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
The problem with the "value" Research is, you cast it, grab those 4 cards and shuffle them into your bib. However, now you need to find those cards again, which is the ream problem. It is also a nightmare for sideboarding btw (what do you board in, what do you want to leave in the board, and so on (+ do not forget to de sideboard)).
But than again, go ahead, test stuff and report here. Every kind of information and testing is valuable, when only a few players are playing a deck. It is also not the first time I'm doing this legwork for a deck in Modern (the Shoal version of Griselbanned took me 1 year to develop and establish).
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
2 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Glacial Fortress
3 Island
1 Mountain
3 Arid Mesa
3 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
3 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Remand
//Cantrips
4 Serum Visions
2 Sleight of Hand
2 Gitaxian Probe
//Creatures
1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Curious Homunculus
3 Monastery Mentor
1 Noxious Revival
1 Pyretic Ritual
1 Grapeshot
2 Desperate Ritual
2 Manamorphose
1 Jace's Sanctum
2 Past in Flames
3 Gifts Ungiven
No Sideboard, since this was just put together to see, if it even works. The thought process was, since I was killing opponents quite a lot with flipped Homunculus, I wanted to see, if I could build something similar compared to the old RUG Twin lists, which had with Goyf a good secondary win con (or rather the primary one when you look at the boarding plans).
I played 8 rounds vs Jund ft 4 Rise//Fall and 3 Snapcaster Mage and 4 rounds vs Grixis Delver.
Vs Blue Jund:
His 5 targeted Discard spells + 4 Rise/Falls were quite annoying, but most of the times I was able to recover using either Jace's Sanctum, casting value PiFs (thus drawing a couple of cards or even randomly killing him thanks to a Jace's Snactum), simply going Gifts -> stuff -> win or attacking with Mentor + couple of tokens + Homunculus.
Won 6, lost 2, in one loss I flooded out pretty badly (had an active Mentor + Homunculus vs 1 Flayer, 1 Goyf, 1 Kalitas (pumped once) and 2 EE @4/0). Was not able to find a PiF, Gifts or cantrips to win through that board. The other loss was, because I was mana screwed (drew only 3 lands over the whole game, while I had 2 Gifts + 1 PiF in hand). On the other hand, thanks to Gifts I was able to recover from some really bad positions, I just kinda want another Path like card, so that I can tutor for: Bolt, Path, Revial, Path like card. Sadly, there is no card like this in Modern (Deceleration in Stone would be the next best, but without Instant speed it is crappy).
Vs Grixis Delver:
Won 3 lost 1, the loss was a Delver, into flip + Delver + Thoughtseize, into flip + K-Command (discard, shoot damage), into lethal. Wasn't able to draw a Bolt or Path, after he got rid of the one Bolt in my hand with the Seize (drew it from the cantrip).
Deck looks fun and also quite good.
I want to point out, that you can still kill people on turn 4 with that line (only works, if you have one of the following in the hand: Revival, Morphose, Ritual)
Turn 1 + 2: do stuff and cast spells
Turn 3: cast Homunculus (he needs to survive)
Turn 4: float mana from Homunculus, transform him, cast Gifts with the flooting mana (1 land untapped) for the standard pile (2 Rituals, Morphose, PiF)
If you have the Ritual or Morphose in your hand, you can just win now. If you have the Revival, you go Revival a Ritual (from the Gifts pile IF the opp gave you Morphose + PiF), which results into the same. If you have drew the one off Pyretic Ritual, than you have to change the pile into: Ritual, Morphose, Revival, PiF to get the kill.
Now, you can do the standard combo execution (cast Rituals into PiF, cast them again, cast Gifts, search for the second combo half, kill the opp).
Note: You still need the landdrop (as any other turn 4 kill but the turn 2 Mancer into turn 3 Gifts one).
As for sideboard, I had a "interesting" idea (based on the comments earlier):
- 2 Desperate Ritual
- 1 Pyretic Ritual
- 1 Grapeshot
- 2 Past in Flames
+ 2 Keranos, God of Storms
+ 2 Research/Development
+ 2 interaction elements (+ the normal sideboarding elements).
This way you can grab the combo from the sideboard, if necessary. It makes the combo turn 2 mana more expensive and you need another U source, which can be problematic. So basically, you would do the following:
- cast research, grab 2 Rituals, 1 PiF, 1 Grapeshot (plays around a Surgical on something btw, if you do not want to play around it, go for 3 Rituals, 1 Pif)
- Gifts for 2 Rituals, 1 PiF, 1 Morphose (you will get PiF + Morphose usually, if the opp gives you another combination, it makes the whole combo turn easier)
untap now, 5 lands in play, Mancer effect in play
- Morphose into PiF (3 mana left - storm 2)
- 2 Rituals (7 mana - storm 4)
- Research for second half of the combo (5 mana - storm 5)
- Gifts for Revival, Ritual, Grapeshot, Morphose (2 mana - storm 6)
Here is the problem at the second Gifts (and why you need +2 mana in the worst case): This pile only works, if you have a Remand in the graveyard and thus you only need +1 mana compared to the normal combo line. However, if you do not have a Remand, since you trade the Morphose in for the Remand. You need +2 mana since the flashback cost on PiF costs 4 mana with a Mancer effect in play. However, at the same time, you could already have the Revival in hand (or the second Morphose) which would nullify this problem (you go Revival a Ritual, Morphose into it, cast Ritual and than cast Pif or in the case of the Morphose you get the required +1 mana)
However, if you have a Probe in the grave and the opponent gives you the revival, you can get back the Ritual with the Revival, go Morphose (that one chilling in your graveyard from the first PiF), grab that Ritual, cast it and than go Pif into Ritual, Revival the Grapeshot, Morphose it (from the second Gifts) and go Grapeshot into Remand Grapeshot.
Than again, if the opponent is low enough (and you have a Bolt in the graveyard) you do not even need to do the Grapeshot + Remand trick, which spares you the U mana you would need.
Bottom line is: If you use Research to grab the pieces, you need +1 mana most of the times, +2 mana if you have nothing in the grave/hand compared to a normal Gifts chain.
The only reason I would consider this is, that Development is not that bad per se, drawing 3 for 5 at Instant speed is okay-ish or getting the tokens, when you have enough removal in the deck to clean the way for them (Bolt/Path).
Changes I would do to the maindeck:
-1 Island, +1 Lighthouse (want to test it)
Sideboard would be something along this line:
2 Keranos, God of Storms,
2 Research//Development
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Path to Exile
1 Wear//Tear
1 Disenchant
1 Negate
1 Spell Pierce
1 Dispel
1 Pyroclasm
1 Hyrcals Recall
1 Docent of Perfection
Will play again this evening (small tournament again), will report probably tomorrow ^^
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)