I've been waiting for a UG Primer for a long time. I've been running this list (Well, I've made recent changes) ever since Modern has been announced, with very minor adjustments (Just added Ugin and Kiora). I have to say it's been pretty solid, often end up in the top 3. I need to adjust the sideboard still, the Meta at my shop is constantly changing so it's hard to know what to prepare for.
My worse Match ups are indeed Affinity and Merfolk. Merfolk is only a matter of "Do you have spreading seas?"
There's an interesting approach happening in this thread, so hopefully this list will spark some more discussion or different ideas. Originally this deck was a Cloudpost deck I had made and I converted it to Tron.
Don't know if this belongs here. But as a former U-Tron player I saw this and thought this would be cool. It's a U/G Tron article that is on SCG's website. Let me know what you think about it. Here's the link and the list.
LANDS:
-I should not have to explain Tron
-4 Breeding Pool and 2 Yavimaya Coast: Breeding Pools hurt us once for 2 (or not at all if coming down turn 1), while Coasts hurt us as we need them. Coasts do not have basic land types so they're safe from Sundering Titan, but I have lost a game at 1 life because I did not have a second (third?) blue source to cast Evacuation, so your mileage may vary. I like the 4-2 split, but if you're going heavier on artifacts similar to G-base Tron, I could see 3-3 or even 2-4.
-2 Islands and 1 Forest: because opposing Ghost Quarters and Path to Exiles are most definitely a thing, also helps if you need colors and don't want to pay life for them God forbid you need to Map for a basic in dire circumstances. Also ramped by Solemn Simulacrum.
-1 Ghost Quarter: was originally Eye of Ugin, but I got tired of needing a land and drawing an Eye... GQ helps in any variant of the Tron mirror, and can potentially lead to interesting situations with Loam
-1 Academy Ruins: Mindslaver aside, this can recur Maps to assemble Tron, most of our fatties to replay, and soft-lock with Oblivion Stone.
SPELLS:
-Repeal and Condescend are U-Tron control staples. I run a set of each because they help us interact with the opponent and slow them down while giving us a bit of an advantage
-Remands are excellent for any deck that wants to assemble specific cards, delay the opponent, and/or push into the lategame. Oh, and it draws us a card, too.
-Explores are in because I wanted to use some sort of land acceleration from G, and it felt odd if the only reason the deck is green is for Loam and some cards in the side. While I'm a fan of them in theory, I could see myself dropping 1 in favor of something else, as they use a color and aren't guaranteed to get you anything useful - though they DO enable a turn 3 Sundering Titan, so that's something to keep in mind.
-I feel like I've said enough about Gifts in my earlier post, so I don't want to sound like a total fanboy (even though I probably am)
-Loam already discussed above
-Cyclonic Rift and Evacuation are there primarily for the "Gifts into 3 wipes" scenario so I always get one should I need one, but they are ever so slightly different: Rift will bounce everything but not manlands (!) while Evac bounces manlands but not the rest of their board which may include Blood Moon or Cranial Plating or planeswalkers or etc. Rift can also be used as emergency single-target bounce, while Evac cannot
-Fabricate is one that used to be in the board, and then crawled into the main and never left. It's a shame I didn't realize it sooner, but just about everything in the deck revolves around artifacts for it to fetch: Need a land? Expedition Map. Need a wipe? Oblivion Stone. Need a threat? Take your pick (except the Eldrazi). As mentioned in my previous comment, a turn 4 Tron + blue source Fabricates and plays Batterskull, which is often a powerplay.
THREATS:
-Flying death squid is flying death squid.
-Flying death squid's little cousin is primarily here because (A) we can cast him a good chunk of the time, and (B) because he reanimates through countermagic and (C) in a Gifts package of at least one other creature threat, it becomes a difficult choice for the enemy.
-Giant Metal Worm is also pretty self-explanatory at this point
-Batterskull, while on the slightly smaller end, is there for the purposes of staving off aggro and gaining us some life, but also because it is notoriously difficult to deal with (provided we have mana open) through its self-bouncing. If the Germ dies, just stick it onto something else and enjoy.
-Sundering Titan has the ability to win games by himself, or be nigh-irrelevant. The more shocks your opponents play, the better he gets, and best of all, he triggers again when the opponent decides they can't handle the 7/10 to take more of their lands away. I definitely would not leave home without one main, but he is generally the first thing to be sided out vs monocolor or Affinity.
-Inkwell Leviathan has the magic number 7 colorless in his mana cost, has two forms of evasion, and SHROUD. For the opponent, that brings a world of pain. For us, we're sad that we can't equip Batterskull to it.
SB:
-Aetherize against heavy aggro, like zoo or Affinity and Twin
-Squelch.. hurts just about anything. Stops a 'walker for a turn, stops fetches, stops manlands, stops Twin. And it draws us a card.
-Nature's Claim deals with hate cards of all colors. Blood Moon, Spreading Seas, Stony Silence, Choke are all valid targets, and bonus points vs Affinity
-Creeping Corrosion ... have you noticed I want to be prepared vs Affinity?
-Sundering Titans I've been a huge, huge fan of since I started the deck, and his ability to single-handedly end games just by hitting the board is undeniable. But 3 in the 75 can feel like a lot, even for a really good hitter, so I could see going down to 1 main 1 SB if you need to open some room.
-Tormod's Crypt is Fabricateable and gives us some level of protection against the occasional graveyard deck
-Platinum Emperion is my personal choice over Platinum Angel. They do have their differences, but what turns me off the Angel is the "bring you down to negative life, kill Angel" plan, while the Emperion keeps you alive and needs to be dealt with before anything else can hurt you. Having said that, Angel is probably the better choice in an Infect meta, but Emperion is definitely an alternative if Infect is not a concern for you.
-Thragtusk: yadda yadda, aggro, lifegain, leaves a body when dies.
-Gaea's Revenge is our universal answer to control. It can't be countered, can't be target-bounced, can't be Pathed, Bolted, and so on. It also has haste and kills them in 2-3 hits. For bonus points, you could try Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur in this spot, but I find Revenge to be much more threatening (pun intended)
-Negate is an afterthought because I had one spot left, I used to run 2 in here but 1 got removed for something else. Has its relevant matchups, but is totally removable for some secret tech
-Speaking of secret tech, my newest addition is Commandeer, primarily to deal with Gr Tron that assembles a lot quicker than this one does and doesn't really care about Condescends. Commandeer is to steal their Karn, or their Ugin, or their Oblivion Stone, or even a clutch Ancient Stirrings or Sylvan Scrying. Has yet to be tested, but I will report as soon as I have info on it.
Ta-da! I can answer any and all questions now.
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So I was speaking with one of the nice folks over at Shoktroopa's stream who also runs UG Tron, and they told me of a particularly nasty combo with Loam:
Possessed Portal replaces your draw with nothing. Loam replaces your draw with Dredge. With both out, you choose which one happens, so while they can't draw anything new and lose permanents every turn, we're happily dredging away and discarding or sacrificing lands to fuel Loam.
I have no idea if this belongs here, or whether a more BG, Stax/lock/DeathCloud-oriented list would want to use this, but it's an interesting and original idea to consider. I almost want to go up to 61 main just to see if Portal and Loam are as hilarious in game as they are in my head.
In more serious news, the more I play and the more I think about it, the less I enjoy the 4 Explores. Yes, they allow for the nut turn 3 Titan, but they don't exactly do a whole lot in the mid/late-game (except this one time, when the extra land got me to Mindslaver mana). To try and make this more consistent and have powerful plays at each stage of the game, I'm considering cutting at least 2 Explores, and replacing them with 2 Thirst for Knowledge and potentially the others will become Sylvan Scrying to always get the land we need.
Thoughts? Comments? Concerns?
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I would like to probably play Gifts more consistently. Or have additional threats to throw out, but it feels like a bad decision because then you become much more vulnerable to beat down.
Sideboard/Maybe board is changed quite often for meta in my area.
I would like to probably play Gifts more consistently. Or have additional threats to throw out, but it feels like a bad decision because then you become much more vulnerable to beat down.
Sideboard/Maybe board is changed quite often for meta in my area.
If you want to play Gifts more often.. play more Gifts?
Alright, time for some actual suggestions.
1)I don't like Stirrings here. A solid quarter of your deck is control, and the rest of your sorceries ups it to a little over a third in terms of non-permanent spells. A third of your deck you won't hit with Ancient Stirrings. I, personally, believe that if you choose to go with the Blue-based builds (as your near-full suite of Remand/Repeal/Condescend suggests), Stirrings becomes a bad card - sure, it only costs 1, but it misses a good chunk of your deck, and every piece of that chunk you hit reduces the choice you can make. In contrast, look at Gr Tron, where the only things Stirrings misses is itself and Scrying and sometimes Pyroclasm - making it 10ish cards. Well, okay, maybe saying Stirrings is bad in U-based Tron is harsh, but it's a lot less powerful than elsewhere. I'd recommend that become either extra copies of Scrying to fetch lands, some amount of Fabricate to fetch artifacts, or Thirst for Knowledge for general dig.
But of course, if you have experience to prove otherwise and really enjoy the Stirrings, then by all means.
2) How has Emrakul been working for you? Yes, I'm about to suggest that you consider removing him, so please hold the harsh words and hear out the reason in my madness.
Yes, Emrakul is the fatty of all fatties. Yes, he's a near-literal "I win" button. But the question is, how often to do you ACTUALLY get to 15/13 mana? I've been having some trouble with him in the sense that if he's drawn before you're ready to hit the button, he is quite literally a dead card in the hand. Maybe it's just me personally, but since U-based lists prefer to drag the game into the mid/lategame and overwhelm the enemy with giant threats they cannot handle (as opposed to get the Tron out ASAP), I feel like these lists need more mid-game survivability than "I win", which is why I removed Emrakul from my own list. The rest of your threats are definite monsters, but I feel like our best threats are those we can use to wreak havoc and protect ourselves with in the midgame, *in addition to* being powerful enough to win the game if unchecked. Wurmcoil and Titan come out at reasonable time points in the game, and are must-answers. Mindslaver is a win at 13 with Ruins, but can very reasonably be run out and cracked in the mid-game just to mess with the opponent's hand, and so isn't as dead as Emrakul. Even Ulamog is more reasonably costed, slows the opponent down, and is difficult to deal with.
3) Lands. The lands look fine, for the most part, there are just two I don't like. Flooded Grove and Hinterland Harbor. I assume you were probably looking into non-basics to mitigate the damage you take from landing your own Sundering Titan, but I really would rather run Breeding Pool or even more Yavimaya Coasts over these two. The Harbor might be okay, but I have a definite issue with the Grove, because it doesn't make color without existing color, and having a hand of control/dig while sitting on no colors makes us a sad panda. Harbor only really stings on the turn it comes down, but I really think that Grove needs to go.
Comments: I definitely feel like the Explore replacements were the correct call. TfK digs deeper and can reach more relevant answers, and at instant-speed, while Scrying gets me the land I need, and not one I topdeck. I'm also pretty confident in the Emrakul and Inkwell cuts, but I'm not 100% sure yet if the increased survivability helps. Also, if you guys run an increased amount of threats and Gifts, you should really try Artisan. He can be really obscene if part of a Gifts pile with other threats, or if threats are in the grave. Artisan reanimating Thragtusk feels super-dirty. In the good way.
Since Infect is cool and hip again, I'm considering (at least temporarily) replacing the SB Emperion with Platinum Angel.
What do y'all think?
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I think U/G tron suffers from pacing. I play tested several of these decks post here and while they are all pretty consistent near 'mid-late game'.
However, U/G seems to be really shaking between turn 1-4 (maybe 5).
Against Affinity and even RG tron, I find it more likely that they have near control of the board(obviously in g1) and it becomes increasingly difficult to take control back unless you pull gifts for removals.
The huge downside is that if you draw islands and did not finish tron by turn 4, Karn will and is a huge problem. Even without Karn, RG tron that i play tested against almost always was able to Eye of Ugin into Emrakul or Ulamog. And if the odd time they dont draw a land fetch, Wurmcoils definitely become a huge issue by turn 5-6. Even with mana for counters and repeals, or any other removal, they fetch up new threats just 1 turn faster (at least).
Against affinity, I experience the same issues that UW tron has. If I get the O stone everything is okay, (also the sideboard Creeping Corrosion). But if I don't, its incredibly hard. If I can Gifts into trying to complete Tron, they can still end the game. Post sideboard, I still experience the same issues, if I Gifts into artifact removals, Hurkyls recall (honestly not too great if they have 2 mana), creeping corrosion (which always gets graveyarded),O stone and Natures claim, they still have board presence, sure Im in much better control but I still have very little threats. (see LSV using UW tron vs Affinity)
A friend of mine who plays Mono-green stompy commented on the lack of strong removal. Aside from O-stone, if they had 5 forests, new threats come out, and I find myself pretty low on life
That being said, past turn 6, I win probably 65% of the games (but not the RG tron games lol). Putting my threats out and stopping theirs becomes so easy. Early batterskull has saved me more times thank I can think of, same with wurm.
I removed ancient stirrings, for chalice mostly to play it for 1. Which helps considerably at faster matchups.
For creatures I changed a few of them around. I try now to sway away from eldrazi for some other threats. Which also means removing Eye of Ugin as a tutor which is fine because Im not running any eldrazi too far from a reasonable mana requirement.
Im on the fence about Treasure mage replaced by Gifts, only because sometimes you really need a body (like against infect). Im still going to keep him as a 1 or 2 of.
In the end Im not sure how far I can push this deck. Fundamentally it sound great, but it lacks hard removal that Red brings to RG tron. But occasionally with the right blue spells in hand, Affinity and Infect dont get to win by turn 4 most of the time, giving me time to start gifts combos.
Primeval titan is also a new consideration after seen mono G tron variants, but might clash with the idea of control the the UG tron.
I think U/G tron suffers from pacing. I play tested several of these decks post here and while they are all pretty consistent near 'mid-late game'.
However, U/G seems to be really shaking between turn 1-4 (maybe 5).
Against Affinity and even RG tron, I find it more likely that they have near control of the board(obviously in g1) and it becomes increasingly difficult to take control back unless you pull gifts for removals.
The huge downside is that if you draw islands and did not finish tron by turn 4, Karn will and is a huge problem. Even without Karn, RG tron that i play tested against almost always was able to Eye of Ugin into Emrakul or Ulamog. And if the odd time they dont draw a land fetch, Wurmcoils definitely become a huge issue by turn 5-6. Even with mana for counters and repeals, or any other removal, they fetch up new threats just 1 turn faster (at least).
Against affinity, I experience the same issues that UW tron has. If I get the O stone everything is okay, (also the sideboard Creeping Corrosion). But if I don't, its incredibly hard. If I can Gifts into trying to complete Tron, they can still end the game. Post sideboard, I still experience the same issues, if I Gifts into artifact removals, Hurkyls recall (honestly not too great if they have 2 mana), creeping corrosion (which always gets graveyarded),O stone and Natures claim, they still have board presence, sure Im in much better control but I still have very little threats. (see LSV using UW tron vs Affinity)
A friend of mine who plays Mono-green stompy commented on the lack of strong removal. Aside from O-stone, if they had 5 forests, new threats come out, and I find myself pretty low on life
That being said, past turn 6, I win probably 65% of the games (but not the RG tron games lol). Putting my threats out and stopping theirs becomes so easy. Early batterskull has saved me more times thank I can think of, same with wurm.
On the contrary, I find its pacing to be more or less fine. Yes, we have a hard time against hyper-aggressive decks if we don't hit our disruption in time, but so does any control deck. What kind of hands are you keeping? It's worth noting that different variants on UG will want to keep different hands - G-based will want Tron assembly as fast as they can, while U-based are fine keeping a Tron piece, Island, Expedition Map, Remand, Condescend hand almost regardless of what else is in the hand.
As for the particular matchups you mentioned:
Affinity - you definitely want to see your Repeals here, and there are plenty of low-cost targets. Once you get into wipe-mana (O-Stone, Rift, Evacuation, Whelming Wave even) you should be able to stabilize, unless you're just that far behind. Out of the board, you have Aetherize, Aetherspouts and other aggro-specific cards, not to mention specific hate like Nature's Claim, Hurkyl's Recall, or Creeping Corrosion. Granted, I haven't played against Affinity TOO much lately, but if we resolve any number of Repeals or Remands against them, I'd definitely give us at least a 50/50 since there's still just as much room for everything to go room just like there's room for stabilizing and getting there.
RG Tron is the real nightmare here. They play a similar strategy we do, except faster - our threats don't outclass theirs, and if they assemble Tron they can start paying for Condescends. We also have no real out to a resolved Karn, short of a super-meta placement of Beast Within. Our colors give us access to super-narrow cards like Shadow of Doubt or Mindlock Orb to hurt their searching since we don't REALLY need it. The one leg up on them that we have is if we run Life from the Loam or Crucible of Worlds with Ghost Quarter, but all of these options are probably too slow to handle them. They aren't as prevalent in my area, so I run a single Commandeer and a Negate in the board to try and catch that turn 3 Karn. Otherwise, we just pray that the RNG Gods aren't on their side but on ours. It's a real tough one.
For mono-green stompy, refer to Affinity. I feel like we should at least be able to survive to a wipe/Wurmcoil/Batterskull between our counters and Repeals. It's not that they have control of the board, they just operate slightly faster than we do.
You see what I mean with the midrange threats, yes? Getting some timely reinforcements (pun intended) in the form of a resolved Batterskull, Wurm, or Thragtusk gives us back some life, some walling potential, and maybe even a threat that can start whacking away at their life.
I removed ancient stirrings, for chalice mostly to play it for 1. Which helps considerably at faster matchups.
For creatures I changed a few of them around. I try now to sway away from eldrazi for some other threats. Which also means removing Eye of Ugin as a tutor which is fine because Im not running any eldrazi too far from a reasonable mana requirement.
Im on the fence about Treasure mage replaced by Gifts, only because sometimes you really need a body (like against infect). Im still going to keep him as a 1 or 2 of.
I definitely see the merit in T-Mage, but I opted to run Fabricate over him because Fabricate can fetch O-Stone or Batterskull, or even a Map if desperate, all of which T-Mage misses.
How's the Colossus been going for you? I took him out originally because Path was running rampant, but UWR kind of disappeared since then (though now we have an Abzan monstrosity that runs them), so I'm not sure if paying 12 for a basic is worth it. Granted, it IS something that needs dealing with ASAP and isn't dealt with easily outside of Path or Liliana or Cryptic, so if it works, it works!
In the end Im not sure how far I can push this deck. Fundamentally it sound great, but it lacks hard removal that Red brings to RG tron. But occasionally with the right blue spells in hand, Affinity and Infect dont get to win by turn 4 most of the time, giving me time to start gifts combos.
Primeval titan is also a new consideration after seen mono G tron variants, but might clash with the idea of control the the UG tron.
Prime Titan is definitely worth consideration. It doesn't necessarily clash with U-based control (short of demanding the ability to pay GG, which could change your land choices) - it's a midrange blocker, a high-power threat with trample, and either completes Tron or fetches Ruins on entry, which is definitely strong when stapled onto a big body. I'm testing out his blue brother, but that's partially because I don't own the Green Giant.
Don't give up! I think the deck has potential, it just has a lot of opportunities for decisions (and that means both mistakes AND room for learning!). It may not be obvious what to grab with Gifts, what to counter, what to bounce, but I think it comes with playing and getting used to it. I love this deck to pieces, and definitely feel that it is viable, just needs some tweaking and maybe some undiscovered secret tech to get there.
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As for the particular matchups you mentioned:
Affinity - you definitely want to see your Repeals here, and there are plenty of low-cost targets. Once you get into wipe-mana (O-Stone, Rift, Evacuation, Whelming Wave even) you should be able to stabilize, unless you're just that far behind. Out of the board, you have Aetherize, Aetherspouts and other aggro-specific cards, not to mention specific hate like Nature's Claim, Hurkyl's Recall, or Creeping Corrosion. Granted, I haven't played against Affinity TOO much lately, but if we resolve any number of Repeals or Remands against them, I'd definitely give us at least a 50/50 since there's still just as much room for everything to go room just like there's room for stabilizing and getting there.
RG Tron is the real nightmare here. They play a similar strategy we do, except faster - our threats don't outclass theirs, and if they assemble Tron they can start paying for Condescends. We also have no real out to a resolved Karn, short of a super-meta placement of Beast Within. Our colors give us access to super-narrow cards like Shadow of Doubt or Mindlock Orb to hurt their searching since we don't REALLY need it. The one leg up on them that we have is if we run Life from the Loam or Crucible of Worlds with Ghost Quarter, but all of these options are probably too slow to handle them. They aren't as prevalent in my area, so I run a single Commandeer and a Negate in the board to try and catch that turn 3 Karn. Otherwise, we just pray that the RNG Gods aren't on their side but on ours. It's a real tough one.
For mono-green stompy, refer to Affinity. I feel like we should at least be able to survive to a wipe/Wurmcoil/Batterskull between our counters and Repeals. It's not that they have control of the board, they just operate slightly faster than we do.
You see what I mean with the midrange threats, yes? Getting some timely reinforcements (pun intended) in the form of a resolved Batterskull, Wurm, or Thragtusk gives us back some life, some walling potential, and maybe even a threat that can start whacking away at their life.
I definitely see the merit in T-Mage, but I opted to run Fabricate over him because Fabricate can fetch O-Stone or Batterskull, or even a Map if desperate, all of which T-Mage misses.
How's the Colossus been going for you? I took him out originally because Path was running rampant, but UWR kind of disappeared since then (though now we have an Abzan monstrosity that runs them), so I'm not sure if paying 12 for a basic is worth it. Granted, it IS something that needs dealing with ASAP and isn't dealt with easily outside of Path or Liliana or Cryptic, so if it works, it works!
Don't give up! I think the deck has potential, it just has a lot of opportunities for decisions (and that means both mistakes AND room for learning!). It may not be obvious what to grab with Gifts, what to counter, what to bounce, but I think it comes with playing and getting used to it. I love this deck to pieces, and definitely feel that it is viable, just needs some tweaking and maybe some undiscovered secret tech to get there.
Order of threats if I can only pick one or two. More or less goes like this:
Decently clean board state, I'm at lower life, they have 1 or 2 creature threats.
Tie between Batterskull and Wurmcoil engine depending on mana. If I know they aren't playing much removal, Batterskull takes priority, the vigilance is too good, pseudo evasion onto Solem is also jank.
Poor board state, too many threats on their side, I have more land then they do:
Platinum Angel
Sundering titan
Wurm
I always go for plat angel here
Controlled board state, 1 threat on field, but I have slowed them down significantly.
Blightsteel
Sundering Titan
Most people dont let me resolve Blightsteel (if they have any control at all)
People also trash it in a gifts package (grouped with Academy ruins to prevent play on turn)
But, if it does reach the field, its almost game over. With the exception of UWR control that paths it, or RG Karn pick it out. There is no creature relevant answer I have seen. This takes for granted that I do have a counter or repeal. I don't normally fear not having it anyways. It has won games in tiny windows before RG tron gets Ulamog or Emrakul which is nice. And Mono G stompy mostly scoops, and if they dont, its obvious natures claim play, which is fine for me, because with gifts, Artisan comes out and its no problem.
Gifts package (Blightsteel, Mindslaver, Academy Ruins, Artisan) - they pick Mind or Academy with Blight or Artisan. I get Blight no matter what. But I also never get Mindslaver
Probably the better option (Mindslaver, Sylvan scrying, Artisan, Blightsteel) - I can scry for Academy for the lockout, if not I get both creatures.
No Blightsteel to me lacks the "answer or I win right now". Most people are very anti-Mindslaver lock. This gives me another opt
Wurms and Batterskull can definitely do work, but don't demand the same attention as Blightseel.
If I draw it early, I sac it when I Thirst, and re pick it up with a Gifts package (with sylvan and expedition map 2 other things) and just search academy and pick it from the grave. Most players forget about him.
Choices over academy ruins/ mind slaver because I often end up mind slavering combo-less to buy time or its graved in gifts way more often.
I honestly think UWR is a dead deck, what I mean is that is good, its consistent, but is super stagnant. I think its peaked, until new U control spells come out. I think thats why I dont see it much.
On a personal note, I much prefer Crucible over Loam. Only reason being that you can fetch Crucible in grave using Academy Ruins in a Gifts package. Life of Loam has the risks of putting important spells into the graveyard. Unless you run Snapcaster Mage, (50$ wwowowoow) it puts probably of efficient usage of cards at risk.
I think I can probably get rid of Colossus if I owned a Ugin, the Spirit Dragon Because of sheer flexibility and utility, some nice mass removal is always great.
You say things like monoG Claiming your Colossus and then Artisaning him back, but neither of those two is actually possible - he's indestructible to Claim and shuffles back instead of hitting the grave. Because of the latter, you can also never Ruin him back for the same reason.
Hmm. But that did get me thinking, and I may reinstall Blightsteel somewhere in my 75.
I also intend on attending my shop's Modern tourney next Saturday, so I'll post an updated list that I'll be taking later in the week to come.
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xMage: Jankmaster Commander - Now Playing WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUWRHomura, Human AscendantRRGBorborygmos EnragedGRURMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRBURSaheeli, the GiftedRUWRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
You say things like monoG Claiming your Colossus and then Artisaning him back, but neither of those two is actually possible - he's indestructible to Claim and shuffles back instead of hitting the grave. Because of the latter, you can also never Ruin him back for the same reason.
Hmm. But that did get me thinking, and I may reinstall Blightsteel somewhere in my 75.
I also intend on attending my shop's Modern tourney next Saturday, so I'll post an updated list that I'll be taking later in the week to come.
Yeayea my bad. I wrote that late at night. I didn't mean to mention Nature's Claim. Just discard in the grave from gifts. I leave Colossus when I know they are packing artifact hate. Against white, I always make sure I have some counter ready.
BUT. now that Im awake, I think Blightsteel is great, but its no Ulamog in terms of Mana/Power. I think I favour Ulamog way more. true downside its not tutored with fabricate, and there is no way I am putting eye of ugin into the land base.
Il write up a new list from start soon.
EDIT: Does anyone know about the following scenario: Gifts: something with Loam. Loam is put into graveyard. Opponent taps Relic of Progenitus. On the stack I pay 3 to dredge Loam. Does relic's ability not exile relic? (this assuming of course i played some spell to draw)
Notable changes in the SB:
Platinum Emperion -> Platinum Angel
Inkwell Leviathan -> Dismember
These changes are due to a fear of dying to infect and having little to board into. Unlike other aggro archetypes, I can't wall them with Wurmcoil Engine or gain life with Batterskull/Thragtusk and call it a day. Platinum Emperion, the theoretical "be all, end all" to anything that wants to hit the life total is irrelevant in the matchup as well. I want to try to find room for a second Dismember, but I'm not sure what it should replace. My gut wants me to replace Emrakul, but one of my buddies might show up with Esper mill, and while Loam enables a near-absolute win with Academy Ruins, I'm afraid I'll be punished for removing the death squid.
In other news, watching shoktroopa play lately has inspired me to experiment with the Spell Burst "soft-lock", despite my initial reservations against it in its narrow abilities pre-Tron. Does anyone have any experience with S-Burst?
Re: Borkster's last question
The tap ability on Relic does not force it to exile itself. It's the "pay 1 to nuke all graves" that exiles itself. So if the contents of your graveyard are only Gifts, Card X and Loam, here's how the stack might resolve.
1. Tap ability from relic
2. Thirst for Knowledge (or anything instant-speed that can allow you to draw)
Since Dredge is a replacement effect, the option is chosen as it is supposed to happen and does not use the stack. So if the opponent wants to get rid of your Loam, they *must* use the nuke ability of the Relic then and there. If they do not and allow Thirst to start resolving, then you declare the replacement and you know what happens next. Their next opportunity to crack the Relic to exile all graves will be after Loam has already been dredged.
Granted, of course, that if he just taps the Relic, your Loam is in no immediate danger, as it's your choice what to exile, so get rid of Gifts or something. If the second ability is used, that's where you have to emergency dredge if you want to save it.
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Twitch: MTGJankmaster; lurking>streaming (but maybe one day when I get good at magic)
xMage: Jankmaster Commander - Now Playing WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUWRHomura, Human AscendantRRGBorborygmos EnragedGRURMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRBURSaheeli, the GiftedRUWRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
I finally took Emrakul out when I found out my buddy who runs UB Mill was going with RG Tron instead, and he/she/it became a second Dismember.
Round 1 - UWR Control
My Tron buddy showed up to the venue 15 minutes before I did, and scouted out the meta. One of his points was that there was a UWR player, and I really hoped I'd get to face him. Lo and behold!
Game 1 went pretty smooth, Tron got assembled, lands went kaboom when Titan came down, and game 1 went to the Slaver Lock.
Board for Game 2 - I'm favored in this matchup, so my only real switch is Wurmcoil Engine -> Gaia's Revenge (because PtE is a thing)
Game 2 went to time, I set up a dumb Gifts package with both Titans, Artisan and Revenge, which prompted a "Are you actually serious?" and a scoop. 2-0
1-0 Round 2 - Tempered Steel Affinity
I've seen this kid play before, and I've beaten him before, so we're both familiar with each other's deck. Funny story - last time we faced off, he was so used to Etched Champion effectively being unblockable that he accidentally ran it into my Wurmcoil Engine, costing him the game.
Game 1 he gets the nut draw and goes down to 1 or 2 cards in hand on turn 1 after a snapkeep of 7. I resist, but the mainboard isn't enough and I die a quick mechanical death.
Board for Game 2: oh my God so much. He was actually worried when he saw that I was boarding like SEVEN cards against him: 2 Claim, 1 Corrosion, 2 Aetherize, 2 Dismember (can't recall if Angel went in as well), replacing a Gifts, an Artisan, the Titan, 2 Condescend, and some other stuff.
Game 2 goes long and grindy, he keeps a much slower hand that I can actually interact timely with, I start turning the game around, and he scoops when I point out he doesn't have metalcraft on his Opal to cast the Tempered Steel last turn. I tell him he could still do it if he takes back the 3 damage from an attacking Blinkmoth, but he shrugs and says he didn't have much game beyond that anyway.
Game 3 also goes long and time gets called. I assemble Tron after resolving Creeping Corrosion and the lock happens turn 2 after time, "drawing" the game - but the nice lad concedes and says that was a really fun and well-played match and I deserve the win.
Powerplay of the match was in response to a near-lethal attack with a Plated Ornithopter, Gifts for Repeal, Claim, PowerPlant, Oblivion Stone with Breeding Pool open and PowerPlant missing from the Tron. He gives me Repeal and Nature's Claim, not knowing that I'm holding Loam and Cyclonic Rift (but draw into CC). 2-1
2-0 Round 3 - Traditional Affinity
I don't think I've been this salty since my loss at GP Toronto (when it was Modern and Deathrite Shaman was all the rage). The admitted worst matchup, and I get to see it two rounds in a row. Beautiful.
Game 1 I die. Not much to be said there, except for when the guy attempted to Spellskite a Repeal targeting an Ornithopter, and we have some laughs.
Board plan similar to last round
Game 2 I die. Way too quick for me to be able to deal. 0-2
2-1 Round 4 - Kid Junk
This is also an awkward one, because Smiters are uncounterable and Voices make me sad. If I were to replay the matchup, I think I'd do considerably better since that was my first time facing it myself, but here ... disappointment everywhere. Both games over quick, Game 2 Tron refuses to cooperate, and I die once to Liege-powered Smiter, once to Rhino. So bad. I feel like we should have a lot more game here, but... 0-2
Finish was 2-2. Cutoff for credit is 3-1, so I go home a sad panda.
THOUGHTS:
-With the balance of control, between bounce and counterspells, we can dominate midrange (short of disruption after disruption)
-With counterspells, we have a means of defense against combo
-With the threat density and threat quality, we have a strong game against control.
Two things missing here: RG Tron, and hyper-aggro
RG Tron, as I mentioned before, is a horrid match for us because they do the same thing we do except faster and more consistently. They near-blank our main control methods (Repeal and Condescend) by having their own threats that cost a lot of mana and force us to tap out and not even deal with things permanently. Our one leg up on them is if we can disrupt them early (Repeal a Map or Chromatic they were hoping to use, Ghost Quarter lock with Loam, etc) and hope that they stumble hard enough for us to assemble and take over. It's doable, but it's tough and requires tricky play to catch them with their figurative pants down.
Hyper-aggro decks (Zoo, Affinity, even the Kid Junk deck) are terrible for us because they kill us before we can set up, and we cannot deal with their things fast enough. Zoo is more or less okay, we can Repeal their Cats, Condescend their Goyfs, etc. Affinity is .. special. Hard to counter when their hand is empty as you lay your first land.
Yes, these are popular decks. Yes, "but what about Affinity?" is a question that Modern deckbuilders need to concern themselves with.
I think that what it means for this deck is that, if your meta is plagued with hyper-aggressive decks, the sideboard becomes the most powerful tool we can have. Sure, single bullets are okay, but what we need to deal with is a broad archetype (and thankfully, we only really have issues with ONE archetype).
Yes, this could very well mean that boarding seven or more cards could very well be an option. But if it keeps us alive...
I think the next iteration of my sideboard will keep specific key things, like Tormod's Crypt vs grave decks, or Gaia's Revenge as a difficult-to-deal-with threat for control, and Platinum Angel/Emperion vs combo. But the rest of it will be tools for decks that play faster than we do, so that we can interact with them:
Spell Snare
Spell Pierce
Dismember
Echoing Truth
Nature's Claim
These are all cards that we don't want to play because if we can survive and drag the game on longer, we prefer to get value out of our delaying stuff. If they're faster than we can delay them, then we need to become faster. I think that's the key to playing this side of UG Tron, and I think this has serious potential if we can figure out how to counter this problem (pun intended).
Until next time, and good luck
DN
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Twitch: MTGJankmaster; lurking>streaming (but maybe one day when I get good at magic)
xMage: Jankmaster Commander - Now Playing WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUWRHomura, Human AscendantRRGBorborygmos EnragedGRURMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRBURSaheeli, the GiftedRUWRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
It has got to be criminal to not run Alchemist's Refuge in a U/G Tron deck. I don't even care if the extra colorless land is awkward. It is practically made for the deck. EOT Flashing in Wurmcoil, or flashing in Platinum Angel after forcing Splinter Twin to combo off for 5 minutes has got to be the best thing ever.
People were asking how to interact with Affinity against the main board Pyroclasm solution of the GR Tron. Why not using main board Hurkyl's Recall? Some may say: what if the match up is against non-artifact decks, you'll have 3-4 dead cards on your main deck! Well, that's correct! But, what if you main deck Mycosynth Lattice? Suddenly, all decks are weak against Hurkyl's Recall! And you can still combo with March of the Machines! I think Mycosynth Lattice is a huge card to be played on this UG Tron shell.
Hello to anyone still interested in making this viable.
I have been working on a new deck that uses an idea from legacys dark depths combo with colossus of akros as the main attraction.In my build I can have it monstrous turn four.
I am NOT running the gifts package but I am running mindslaver lock.
I use affinity creatures as chumps with drums for the colored mana and early game defense.
I dig using thoughtcast and sylvan scrying.
Maps and fabricate are there too.
I'll post a list later tonight when im back.
There's probably no new deck list, but this thread was made before Eldrazi stuff. And I think going a G/U eldrazi style with Drowner of Hope and even Birthing Hulk is the way to go now. BUnch of Eldrazi tokens and big guys to round it off with the New Emrakrul, Ulamog, World Breaker etc.
Hey there's life here again.Ive got a decklist that's a homebrew I made after seeing colossus of akros.Anyone remember the dark depths and thespian stage combo? Well colossus cant be cheated in like that but it can be a T3 drop and regularly I can get it monstrous T4. It's a 20/20 indestructible trampler T4.
It's not legendary like depths either.
Card choices- Ornithopter and memnite, act as chump blocks and mana dorks with the sprinleaf drum while also increasing the artifact count.
Tron has little for creatures and suffers from early attacks so by adding in free creatures we stand a better chance of surviving until we can get tron online and get some board presence.
The memnites are also the flex slots, generally I'll pull them for counterspells (remand)if needed. Colossus of akros is the main attraction,I can usually get it on the field and monstrous T4,sometimes T5 if I'm digging for it or tron pieces.Hes a HUGE beatstick and hard to remove once he sticks,the indestructible is great but the trample is what takes the games,once he sticks most opponents scoop. sundering titan is a well known staple of this deck,here he really shines thanks to the springleaf drum and chromatic star.Hes an alternative beater that is the go to if colossus of akros didn't stick or wasn't in hand at the time tron was assembled.When it enters or leaves the battlefield he clears lands which for most decks is GG. steel hellkite is like engineering explosives on 5/5 flying body and it self buffs for colorless mana.Also a good card against affinity. Its another flexcard and I usually side it out for etched champion when champion is better. spellskite is a must,its so helpful and survives bolt.The single is all that needed. magus of the candelabra is a great addition,it maximizes the tron count and can more than double your mana which allows for huge drops. ugin, the spirit dragon is the only planeswalker in the deck.He is a better fit here than karn I believe and is more effective the turn it comes out in my opinion than karn in this particular build. I chose only one since he's an alternative win-con. Sylvan scrying the main land search,its one mana less than map,gets tron online faster and gets academy ruins for the mindslaver combo.Its a four of. Thoughtcast works well for card draw in this build,usually it only costs 1 mana thanks to the high artifact count.It has become a card to rely on,three is a good number.Four is too much since slots is an issue and the third one is a flex card.I usually side in a copy of natural state for it. interpret the signs,with either colossus or titan costing 8cmc putting one of those on top to scry equals draw 8 cards,dont think I've ever drawn less,its as close to a one time ugins ultimate. Animist's awakening,well I'm on the fence still,it's ok,ive had it dead in hand but I've also used it and whenever I used it I usually assembled tron or whatever I needed color wise.Another flex card that I side out for another natural state Not of this world,I love it, tap out to drop colossus or titan and watch opponents face when they try to remove it and you counter for ZERO mana.It's fun and has had good results so far. spellburst is good for the buyback feature,im still testing,hence the single copy,but so far it's performed well.We have the mana! springleaf drum is for mana fixing.It allows for a turn one colored mana source with a tron land down and we can still put out T1 map with it.It has been so good with the thopter and nites that I think it should be moved to core slots in this build expedition map,digs for Tron lands, it's one more mana to dig than sylvan so it's been downgraded to two. chromatic star provides both card draw and color fixing and also helps to increase the artifact count early game for thoughtcast. mindslaver, its a staple combo for the deck, I will side out the combo for a single land and two remand if I need more counters or I don't feel like I can stick the combo.
I'd like to do a primer based off this build of mine but I don't know how.Hopefully I've outlined the basics.Ill edit it with more information like sideboard and why those choices as well as what I usually side out for them.
I would love feedback as well as other ideas that might work out in this build.
@MagikMaker - I like the list and was thinking about Tron recently, use to run UW Gifts Tron ALOT, Since the shift to GW from GR I was really thinking about the viability of this deck, Ceremonious Rejection et alia seem very well placed in the meta now. Curious to not see World Breaker in the list as it shows up in so many GW lists.
If you have something more up to date let me know.
My Haves/Wants Thread
My worse Match ups are indeed Affinity and Merfolk. Merfolk is only a matter of "Do you have spreading seas?"
There's an interesting approach happening in this thread, so hopefully this list will spark some more discussion or different ideas. Originally this deck was a Cloudpost deck I had made and I converted it to Tron.
1x Academy Ruins
2x Breeding Pool
1x Eye of Ugin
3x Forest
4x Urza's Mine
4x Urza's Power Plant
4x Urza's Tower
2x Yavimaya Coast
Planeswalker (5)
3x Karn Liberated
1x Kiora, the Crashing Wave
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3x Wurmcoil Engine
Artifact (15)
2x Chromatic Sphere
4x Chromatic Star
4x Expedition Map
2x Mindslaver
2x Oblivion Stone
1x Relic of Progenitus
Sorcery (14)
2x All Is Dust
4x Ancient Stirrings
4x Explore
4x Sylvan Scrying
2x Condescend
1x All Is Dust
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Ensaring Bridge
1x Ghost Quarter
3x Nature's Claim
1x Platinum Angel
3x Relic of Progenitus
2x Spellskite
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/30484_Daily-Digest-Platinum-Tron.html
2 Spellskite
1 Sundering Titan
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Forest
1 Buried Ruin
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Chromatic Star
4 Expedition Map
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Oblivion Stone
2 Terrarion
2 Pact of Negation
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Sylvan Scrying
2 Spellskite
2 Sundering Titan
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Nature's Claim
2 Pact of Negation
4 Karn Liberated
3 All Is Dust
12 Tron
4 Breeding Pool
2 Yavimaya Coast
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Academy Ruins
1 Ghost Quarter
Utility Artifacts:6
4 Expedition Map
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Solemn Simulacrum
Spells:24
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Remand
4 Condescend
4 Repeal
4 Explore
1 Life from the Loam
1 Evacuation
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Fabricate
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Batterskull
1 Sundering Titan
1 Artisan of Kozilek
1 Mindslaver
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Aetherize
2 Squelch
2 Nature's Claim
2 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Gaea's Revenge
1 Thragtusk
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Negate
1 Commandeer
Brief breakdown and explanation:
LANDS:
-I should not have to explain Tron
-4 Breeding Pool and 2 Yavimaya Coast: Breeding Pools hurt us once for 2 (or not at all if coming down turn 1), while Coasts hurt us as we need them. Coasts do not have basic land types so they're safe from Sundering Titan, but I have lost a game at 1 life because I did not have a second (third?) blue source to cast Evacuation, so your mileage may vary. I like the 4-2 split, but if you're going heavier on artifacts similar to G-base Tron, I could see 3-3 or even 2-4.
-2 Islands and 1 Forest: because opposing Ghost Quarters and Path to Exiles are most definitely a thing, also helps if you need colors and don't want to pay life for them God forbid you need to Map for a basic in dire circumstances. Also ramped by Solemn Simulacrum.
-1 Ghost Quarter: was originally Eye of Ugin, but I got tired of needing a land and drawing an Eye... GQ helps in any variant of the Tron mirror, and can potentially lead to interesting situations with Loam
-1 Academy Ruins: Mindslaver aside, this can recur Maps to assemble Tron, most of our fatties to replay, and soft-lock with Oblivion Stone.
SPELLS:
-Repeal and Condescend are U-Tron control staples. I run a set of each because they help us interact with the opponent and slow them down while giving us a bit of an advantage
-Remands are excellent for any deck that wants to assemble specific cards, delay the opponent, and/or push into the lategame. Oh, and it draws us a card, too.
-Explores are in because I wanted to use some sort of land acceleration from G, and it felt odd if the only reason the deck is green is for Loam and some cards in the side. While I'm a fan of them in theory, I could see myself dropping 1 in favor of something else, as they use a color and aren't guaranteed to get you anything useful - though they DO enable a turn 3 Sundering Titan, so that's something to keep in mind.
-I feel like I've said enough about Gifts in my earlier post, so I don't want to sound like a total fanboy (even though I probably am)
-Loam already discussed above
-Cyclonic Rift and Evacuation are there primarily for the "Gifts into 3 wipes" scenario so I always get one should I need one, but they are ever so slightly different: Rift will bounce everything but not manlands (!) while Evac bounces manlands but not the rest of their board which may include Blood Moon or Cranial Plating or planeswalkers or etc. Rift can also be used as emergency single-target bounce, while Evac cannot
-Fabricate is one that used to be in the board, and then crawled into the main and never left. It's a shame I didn't realize it sooner, but just about everything in the deck revolves around artifacts for it to fetch: Need a land? Expedition Map. Need a wipe? Oblivion Stone. Need a threat? Take your pick (except the Eldrazi). As mentioned in my previous comment, a turn 4 Tron + blue source Fabricates and plays Batterskull, which is often a powerplay.
THREATS:
-Flying death squid is flying death squid.
-Flying death squid's little cousin is primarily here because (A) we can cast him a good chunk of the time, and (B) because he reanimates through countermagic and (C) in a Gifts package of at least one other creature threat, it becomes a difficult choice for the enemy.
-Giant Metal Worm is also pretty self-explanatory at this point
-Batterskull, while on the slightly smaller end, is there for the purposes of staving off aggro and gaining us some life, but also because it is notoriously difficult to deal with (provided we have mana open) through its self-bouncing. If the Germ dies, just stick it onto something else and enjoy.
-Sundering Titan has the ability to win games by himself, or be nigh-irrelevant. The more shocks your opponents play, the better he gets, and best of all, he triggers again when the opponent decides they can't handle the 7/10 to take more of their lands away. I definitely would not leave home without one main, but he is generally the first thing to be sided out vs monocolor or Affinity.
-Inkwell Leviathan has the magic number 7 colorless in his mana cost, has two forms of evasion, and SHROUD. For the opponent, that brings a world of pain. For us, we're sad that we can't equip Batterskull to it.
SB:
-Aetherize against heavy aggro, like zoo or Affinity and Twin
-Squelch.. hurts just about anything. Stops a 'walker for a turn, stops fetches, stops manlands, stops Twin. And it draws us a card.
-Nature's Claim deals with hate cards of all colors. Blood Moon, Spreading Seas, Stony Silence, Choke are all valid targets, and bonus points vs Affinity
-Creeping Corrosion ... have you noticed I want to be prepared vs Affinity?
-Sundering Titans I've been a huge, huge fan of since I started the deck, and his ability to single-handedly end games just by hitting the board is undeniable. But 3 in the 75 can feel like a lot, even for a really good hitter, so I could see going down to 1 main 1 SB if you need to open some room.
-Tormod's Crypt is Fabricateable and gives us some level of protection against the occasional graveyard deck
-Platinum Emperion is my personal choice over Platinum Angel. They do have their differences, but what turns me off the Angel is the "bring you down to negative life, kill Angel" plan, while the Emperion keeps you alive and needs to be dealt with before anything else can hurt you. Having said that, Angel is probably the better choice in an Infect meta, but Emperion is definitely an alternative if Infect is not a concern for you.
-Thragtusk: yadda yadda, aggro, lifegain, leaves a body when dies.
-Gaea's Revenge is our universal answer to control. It can't be countered, can't be target-bounced, can't be Pathed, Bolted, and so on. It also has haste and kills them in 2-3 hits. For bonus points, you could try Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur in this spot, but I find Revenge to be much more threatening (pun intended)
-Negate is an afterthought because I had one spot left, I used to run 2 in here but 1 got removed for something else. Has its relevant matchups, but is totally removable for some secret tech
-Speaking of secret tech, my newest addition is Commandeer, primarily to deal with Gr Tron that assembles a lot quicker than this one does and doesn't really care about Condescends. Commandeer is to steal their Karn, or their Ugin, or their Oblivion Stone, or even a clutch Ancient Stirrings or Sylvan Scrying. Has yet to be tested, but I will report as soon as I have info on it.
Ta-da! I can answer any and all questions now.
xMage: Jankmaster
Commander - Now Playing
WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUW RHomura, Human AscendantR RGBorborygmos EnragedGR URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing
BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRB URSaheeli, the GiftedRU WRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
Possessed Portal replaces your draw with nothing. Loam replaces your draw with Dredge. With both out, you choose which one happens, so while they can't draw anything new and lose permanents every turn, we're happily dredging away and discarding or sacrificing lands to fuel Loam.
I have no idea if this belongs here, or whether a more BG, Stax/lock/DeathCloud-oriented list would want to use this, but it's an interesting and original idea to consider. I almost want to go up to 61 main just to see if Portal and Loam are as hilarious in game as they are in my head.
In more serious news, the more I play and the more I think about it, the less I enjoy the 4 Explores. Yes, they allow for the nut turn 3 Titan, but they don't exactly do a whole lot in the mid/late-game (except this one time, when the extra land got me to Mindslaver mana). To try and make this more consistent and have powerful plays at each stage of the game, I'm considering cutting at least 2 Explores, and replacing them with 2 Thirst for Knowledge and potentially the others will become Sylvan Scrying to always get the land we need.
Thoughts? Comments? Concerns?
xMage: Jankmaster
Commander - Now Playing
WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUW RHomura, Human AscendantR RGBorborygmos EnragedGR URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing
BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRB URSaheeli, the GiftedRU WRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
1x Academy Ruins
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Flooded Grove
1x Forest
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Hinterland Harbor
1x Island
1x Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1x Snow-Covered Forest
1x Snow-Covered Island
4x Urza's Mine
4x Urza's Power Plant
4x Urza's Tower
1x Yavimaya Coast
Artifact (8)
2x Chromatic Star
3x Expedition Map
1x Mindslaver
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Simic Signet
Instant (15)
3x Condescend
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Gifts Ungiven
3x Remand
3x Repeal
1x Spell Burst
3x Thirst for Knowledge
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Platinum Angel
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Sundering Titan
1x Treasure Mage
1x Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1x Wurmcoil Engine
Sorcery (7)
2x Ancient Stirrings
2x Explore
3x Sylvan Scrying
1x Crucible of Worlds
3x Dismember
2x Hurkyl's Recall
2x Spell Snare
2x Spellskite
2x Squelch
1x Wurmcoil Engine
Maybeboard (12)
1x Creeping Corrosion
1x Gaea's Revenge
1x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Nature's Claim
2x Negate
1x Platinum Emperion
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Steel Hellkite
Any suggestions?
I would like to probably play Gifts more consistently. Or have additional threats to throw out, but it feels like a bad decision because then you become much more vulnerable to beat down.
Sideboard/Maybe board is changed quite often for meta in my area.
If you want to play Gifts more often.. play more Gifts?
Alright, time for some actual suggestions.
1)I don't like Stirrings here. A solid quarter of your deck is control, and the rest of your sorceries ups it to a little over a third in terms of non-permanent spells. A third of your deck you won't hit with Ancient Stirrings. I, personally, believe that if you choose to go with the Blue-based builds (as your near-full suite of Remand/Repeal/Condescend suggests), Stirrings becomes a bad card - sure, it only costs 1, but it misses a good chunk of your deck, and every piece of that chunk you hit reduces the choice you can make. In contrast, look at Gr Tron, where the only things Stirrings misses is itself and Scrying and sometimes Pyroclasm - making it 10ish cards. Well, okay, maybe saying Stirrings is bad in U-based Tron is harsh, but it's a lot less powerful than elsewhere. I'd recommend that become either extra copies of Scrying to fetch lands, some amount of Fabricate to fetch artifacts, or Thirst for Knowledge for general dig.
But of course, if you have experience to prove otherwise and really enjoy the Stirrings, then by all means.
2) How has Emrakul been working for you? Yes, I'm about to suggest that you consider removing him, so please hold the harsh words and hear out the reason in my madness.
Yes, Emrakul is the fatty of all fatties. Yes, he's a near-literal "I win" button. But the question is, how often to do you ACTUALLY get to 15/13 mana? I've been having some trouble with him in the sense that if he's drawn before you're ready to hit the button, he is quite literally a dead card in the hand. Maybe it's just me personally, but since U-based lists prefer to drag the game into the mid/lategame and overwhelm the enemy with giant threats they cannot handle (as opposed to get the Tron out ASAP), I feel like these lists need more mid-game survivability than "I win", which is why I removed Emrakul from my own list. The rest of your threats are definite monsters, but I feel like our best threats are those we can use to wreak havoc and protect ourselves with in the midgame, *in addition to* being powerful enough to win the game if unchecked. Wurmcoil and Titan come out at reasonable time points in the game, and are must-answers. Mindslaver is a win at 13 with Ruins, but can very reasonably be run out and cracked in the mid-game just to mess with the opponent's hand, and so isn't as dead as Emrakul. Even Ulamog is more reasonably costed, slows the opponent down, and is difficult to deal with.
3) Lands. The lands look fine, for the most part, there are just two I don't like. Flooded Grove and Hinterland Harbor. I assume you were probably looking into non-basics to mitigate the damage you take from landing your own Sundering Titan, but I really would rather run Breeding Pool or even more Yavimaya Coasts over these two. The Harbor might be okay, but I have a definite issue with the Grove, because it doesn't make color without existing color, and having a hand of control/dig while sitting on no colors makes us a sad panda. Harbor only really stings on the turn it comes down, but I really think that Grove needs to go.
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In other news, I have made a few edits to my list:
12 Tron
4 Breeding Pool
2 Yavimaya Coast
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Academy Ruins
1 Ghost Quarter
Utility Artifacts:6
4 Expedition Map
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Solemn Simulacrum
Spells:24
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Remand
4 Condescend
4 Repeal
2 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Sylvan Scrying
1 Life from the Loam
1 Evacuation
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Fabricate
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Thragtusk
1 Batterskull
1 Sundering Titan
1 Artisan of Kozilek
1 Mindslaver
1 Frost Titan
2 Aetherize
2 Squelch
2 Nature's Claim
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Gaea's Revenge
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Negate
1 Commandeer
Main:
-1 Inkwell Leviathan
-1 Emrakul
-4 Explore
+1 Thragtusk
+1 Frost Titan
+2 Thirst for Knowledge
+2 Sylvan Scrying
SB:
-1 Sundering Titan
-1 Thragtusk
+1 Emrakul
+1 Inkwell
Comments: I definitely feel like the Explore replacements were the correct call. TfK digs deeper and can reach more relevant answers, and at instant-speed, while Scrying gets me the land I need, and not one I topdeck. I'm also pretty confident in the Emrakul and Inkwell cuts, but I'm not 100% sure yet if the increased survivability helps. Also, if you guys run an increased amount of threats and Gifts, you should really try Artisan. He can be really obscene if part of a Gifts pile with other threats, or if threats are in the grave. Artisan reanimating Thragtusk feels super-dirty. In the good way.
Since Infect is cool and hip again, I'm considering (at least temporarily) replacing the SB Emperion with Platinum Angel.
What do y'all think?
xMage: Jankmaster
Commander - Now Playing
WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUW RHomura, Human AscendantR RGBorborygmos EnragedGR URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing
BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRB URSaheeli, the GiftedRU WRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
However, U/G seems to be really shaking between turn 1-4 (maybe 5).
Against Affinity and even RG tron, I find it more likely that they have near control of the board(obviously in g1) and it becomes increasingly difficult to take control back unless you pull gifts for removals.
The huge downside is that if you draw islands and did not finish tron by turn 4, Karn will and is a huge problem. Even without Karn, RG tron that i play tested against almost always was able to Eye of Ugin into Emrakul or Ulamog. And if the odd time they dont draw a land fetch, Wurmcoils definitely become a huge issue by turn 5-6. Even with mana for counters and repeals, or any other removal, they fetch up new threats just 1 turn faster (at least).
Against affinity, I experience the same issues that UW tron has. If I get the O stone everything is okay, (also the sideboard Creeping Corrosion). But if I don't, its incredibly hard. If I can Gifts into trying to complete Tron, they can still end the game. Post sideboard, I still experience the same issues, if I Gifts into artifact removals, Hurkyls recall (honestly not too great if they have 2 mana), creeping corrosion (which always gets graveyarded),O stone and Natures claim, they still have board presence, sure Im in much better control but I still have very little threats. (see LSV using UW tron vs Affinity)
A friend of mine who plays Mono-green stompy commented on the lack of strong removal. Aside from O-stone, if they had 5 forests, new threats come out, and I find myself pretty low on life
That being said, past turn 6, I win probably 65% of the games (but not the RG tron games lol). Putting my threats out and stopping theirs becomes so easy. Early batterskull has saved me more times thank I can think of, same with wurm.
I removed ancient stirrings, for chalice mostly to play it for 1. Which helps considerably at faster matchups.
For creatures I changed a few of them around. I try now to sway away from eldrazi for some other threats. Which also means removing Eye of Ugin as a tutor which is fine because Im not running any eldrazi too far from a reasonable mana requirement.
1 Blightsteel colossus
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Batterskull
1 Sundering Titan
1 Artisan of Kozilek
1 Platinum Angel
Non-creature threats:
2 Mindslavers
Im on the fence about Treasure mage replaced by Gifts, only because sometimes you really need a body (like against infect). Im still going to keep him as a 1 or 2 of.
In the end Im not sure how far I can push this deck. Fundamentally it sound great, but it lacks hard removal that Red brings to RG tron. But occasionally with the right blue spells in hand, Affinity and Infect dont get to win by turn 4 most of the time, giving me time to start gifts combos.
Primeval titan is also a new consideration after seen mono G tron variants, but might clash with the idea of control the the UG tron.
On the contrary, I find its pacing to be more or less fine. Yes, we have a hard time against hyper-aggressive decks if we don't hit our disruption in time, but so does any control deck. What kind of hands are you keeping? It's worth noting that different variants on UG will want to keep different hands - G-based will want Tron assembly as fast as they can, while U-based are fine keeping a Tron piece, Island, Expedition Map, Remand, Condescend hand almost regardless of what else is in the hand.
As for the particular matchups you mentioned:
Affinity - you definitely want to see your Repeals here, and there are plenty of low-cost targets. Once you get into wipe-mana (O-Stone, Rift, Evacuation, Whelming Wave even) you should be able to stabilize, unless you're just that far behind. Out of the board, you have Aetherize, Aetherspouts and other aggro-specific cards, not to mention specific hate like Nature's Claim, Hurkyl's Recall, or Creeping Corrosion. Granted, I haven't played against Affinity TOO much lately, but if we resolve any number of Repeals or Remands against them, I'd definitely give us at least a 50/50 since there's still just as much room for everything to go room just like there's room for stabilizing and getting there.
RG Tron is the real nightmare here. They play a similar strategy we do, except faster - our threats don't outclass theirs, and if they assemble Tron they can start paying for Condescends. We also have no real out to a resolved Karn, short of a super-meta placement of Beast Within. Our colors give us access to super-narrow cards like Shadow of Doubt or Mindlock Orb to hurt their searching since we don't REALLY need it. The one leg up on them that we have is if we run Life from the Loam or Crucible of Worlds with Ghost Quarter, but all of these options are probably too slow to handle them. They aren't as prevalent in my area, so I run a single Commandeer and a Negate in the board to try and catch that turn 3 Karn. Otherwise, we just pray that the RNG Gods aren't on their side but on ours. It's a real tough one.
For mono-green stompy, refer to Affinity. I feel like we should at least be able to survive to a wipe/Wurmcoil/Batterskull between our counters and Repeals. It's not that they have control of the board, they just operate slightly faster than we do.
You see what I mean with the midrange threats, yes? Getting some timely reinforcements (pun intended) in the form of a resolved Batterskull, Wurm, or Thragtusk gives us back some life, some walling potential, and maybe even a threat that can start whacking away at their life.
I definitely see the merit in T-Mage, but I opted to run Fabricate over him because Fabricate can fetch O-Stone or Batterskull, or even a Map if desperate, all of which T-Mage misses.
How's the Colossus been going for you? I took him out originally because Path was running rampant, but UWR kind of disappeared since then (though now we have an Abzan monstrosity that runs them), so I'm not sure if paying 12 for a basic is worth it. Granted, it IS something that needs dealing with ASAP and isn't dealt with easily outside of Path or Liliana or Cryptic, so if it works, it works!
Prime Titan is definitely worth consideration. It doesn't necessarily clash with U-based control (short of demanding the ability to pay GG, which could change your land choices) - it's a midrange blocker, a high-power threat with trample, and either completes Tron or fetches Ruins on entry, which is definitely strong when stapled onto a big body. I'm testing out his blue brother, but that's partially because I don't own the Green Giant.
Don't give up! I think the deck has potential, it just has a lot of opportunities for decisions (and that means both mistakes AND room for learning!). It may not be obvious what to grab with Gifts, what to counter, what to bounce, but I think it comes with playing and getting used to it. I love this deck to pieces, and definitely feel that it is viable, just needs some tweaking and maybe some undiscovered secret tech to get there.
xMage: Jankmaster
Commander - Now Playing
WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUW RHomura, Human AscendantR RGBorborygmos EnragedGR URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing
BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRB URSaheeli, the GiftedRU WRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
Order of threats if I can only pick one or two. More or less goes like this:
Decently clean board state, I'm at lower life, they have 1 or 2 creature threats.
Tie between Batterskull and Wurmcoil engine depending on mana. If I know they aren't playing much removal, Batterskull takes priority, the vigilance is too good, pseudo evasion onto Solem is also jank.
Poor board state, too many threats on their side, I have more land then they do:
Platinum Angel
Sundering titan
Wurm
I always go for plat angel here
Controlled board state, 1 threat on field, but I have slowed them down significantly.
Blightsteel
Sundering Titan
Most people dont let me resolve Blightsteel (if they have any control at all)
People also trash it in a gifts package (grouped with Academy ruins to prevent play on turn)
But, if it does reach the field, its almost game over. With the exception of UWR control that paths it, or RG Karn pick it out. There is no creature relevant answer I have seen. This takes for granted that I do have a counter or repeal. I don't normally fear not having it anyways. It has won games in tiny windows before RG tron gets Ulamog or Emrakul which is nice. And Mono G stompy mostly scoops, and if they dont, its obvious natures claim play, which is fine for me, because with gifts, Artisan comes out and its no problem.
Gifts package (Blightsteel, Mindslaver, Academy Ruins, Artisan) - they pick Mind or Academy with Blight or Artisan. I get Blight no matter what. But I also never get Mindslaver
Probably the better option (Mindslaver, Sylvan scrying, Artisan, Blightsteel) - I can scry for Academy for the lockout, if not I get both creatures.
No Blightsteel to me lacks the "answer or I win right now". Most people are very anti-Mindslaver lock. This gives me another opt
Wurms and Batterskull can definitely do work, but don't demand the same attention as Blightseel.
If I draw it early, I sac it when I Thirst, and re pick it up with a Gifts package (with sylvan and expedition map 2 other things) and just search academy and pick it from the grave. Most players forget about him.
Choices over academy ruins/ mind slaver because I often end up mind slavering combo-less to buy time or its graved in gifts way more often.
I honestly think UWR is a dead deck, what I mean is that is good, its consistent, but is super stagnant. I think its peaked, until new U control spells come out. I think thats why I dont see it much.
On a personal note, I much prefer Crucible over Loam. Only reason being that you can fetch Crucible in grave using Academy Ruins in a Gifts package. Life of Loam has the risks of putting important spells into the graveyard. Unless you run Snapcaster Mage, (50$ wwowowoow) it puts probably of efficient usage of cards at risk.
I think I can probably get rid of Colossus if I owned a Ugin, the Spirit Dragon Because of sheer flexibility and utility, some nice mass removal is always great.
Hmm. But that did get me thinking, and I may reinstall Blightsteel somewhere in my 75.
I also intend on attending my shop's Modern tourney next Saturday, so I'll post an updated list that I'll be taking later in the week to come.
xMage: Jankmaster
Commander - Now Playing
WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUW RHomura, Human AscendantR RGBorborygmos EnragedGR URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing
BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRB URSaheeli, the GiftedRU WRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
Yeayea my bad. I wrote that late at night. I didn't mean to mention Nature's Claim. Just discard in the grave from gifts. I leave Colossus when I know they are packing artifact hate. Against white, I always make sure I have some counter ready.
BUT. now that Im awake, I think Blightsteel is great, but its no Ulamog in terms of Mana/Power. I think I favour Ulamog way more. true downside its not tutored with fabricate, and there is no way I am putting eye of ugin into the land base.
Il write up a new list from start soon.
EDIT: Does anyone know about the following scenario: Gifts: something with Loam. Loam is put into graveyard. Opponent taps Relic of Progenitus. On the stack I pay 3 to dredge Loam. Does relic's ability not exile relic? (this assuming of course i played some spell to draw)
12 Tron
4 Breeding Pool
2 Yavimaya Coast
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Academy Ruins
1 Ghost Quarter
Utility Artifacts:6
4 Expedition Map
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Solemn Simulacrum
Spells:24
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Remand
4 Condescend
4 Repeal
2 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Sylvan Scrying
1 Life from the Loam
1 Evacuation
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Fabricate
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Thragtusk
1 Batterskull
1 Sundering Titan
1 Artisan of Kozilek
1 Mindslaver
1 Frost Titan
2 Aetherize
2 Squelch
2 Nature's Claim
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Angel
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Gaea's Revenge
1 Dismember
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Negate
1 Commandeer
Notable changes in the SB:
Platinum Emperion -> Platinum Angel
Inkwell Leviathan -> Dismember
These changes are due to a fear of dying to infect and having little to board into. Unlike other aggro archetypes, I can't wall them with Wurmcoil Engine or gain life with Batterskull/Thragtusk and call it a day. Platinum Emperion, the theoretical "be all, end all" to anything that wants to hit the life total is irrelevant in the matchup as well. I want to try to find room for a second Dismember, but I'm not sure what it should replace. My gut wants me to replace Emrakul, but one of my buddies might show up with Esper mill, and while Loam enables a near-absolute win with Academy Ruins, I'm afraid I'll be punished for removing the death squid.
In other news, watching shoktroopa play lately has inspired me to experiment with the Spell Burst "soft-lock", despite my initial reservations against it in its narrow abilities pre-Tron. Does anyone have any experience with S-Burst?
Re: Borkster's last question
The tap ability on Relic does not force it to exile itself. It's the "pay 1 to nuke all graves" that exiles itself. So if the contents of your graveyard are only Gifts, Card X and Loam, here's how the stack might resolve.
1. Tap ability from relic
2. Thirst for Knowledge (or anything instant-speed that can allow you to draw)
Since Dredge is a replacement effect, the option is chosen as it is supposed to happen and does not use the stack. So if the opponent wants to get rid of your Loam, they *must* use the nuke ability of the Relic then and there. If they do not and allow Thirst to start resolving, then you declare the replacement and you know what happens next. Their next opportunity to crack the Relic to exile all graves will be after Loam has already been dredged.
Granted, of course, that if he just taps the Relic, your Loam is in no immediate danger, as it's your choice what to exile, so get rid of Gifts or something. If the second ability is used, that's where you have to emergency dredge if you want to save it.
xMage: Jankmaster
Commander - Now Playing
WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUW RHomura, Human AscendantR RGBorborygmos EnragedGR URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing
BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRB URSaheeli, the GiftedRU WRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
I took this list to a small shop tourney and placed 2-2, which has prompted some interesting thoughts on the followup:
12 Tron
4 Breeding Pool
2 Yavimaya Coast
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Academy Ruins
1 Ghost Quarter
Utility Artifacts:6
4 Expedition Map
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Solemn Simulacrum
Spells:24
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Remand
4 Condescend
4 Repeal
2 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Sylvan Scrying
1 Life from the Loam
1 Evacuation
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Fabricate
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Thragtusk
1 Batterskull
1 Sundering Titan
1 Artisan of Kozilek
1 Mindslaver
1 Frost Titan
2 Aetherize
2 Squelch
2 Nature's Claim
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Angel
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Gaea's Revenge
2 Dismember
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Negate
1 Telemin Performance
I finally took Emrakul out when I found out my buddy who runs UB Mill was going with RG Tron instead, and he/she/it became a second Dismember.
Round 1 - UWR Control
My Tron buddy showed up to the venue 15 minutes before I did, and scouted out the meta. One of his points was that there was a UWR player, and I really hoped I'd get to face him. Lo and behold!
Game 1 went pretty smooth, Tron got assembled, lands went kaboom when Titan came down, and game 1 went to the Slaver Lock.
Board for Game 2 - I'm favored in this matchup, so my only real switch is Wurmcoil Engine -> Gaia's Revenge (because PtE is a thing)
Game 2 went to time, I set up a dumb Gifts package with both Titans, Artisan and Revenge, which prompted a "Are you actually serious?" and a scoop. 2-0
1-0 Round 2 - Tempered Steel Affinity
I've seen this kid play before, and I've beaten him before, so we're both familiar with each other's deck. Funny story - last time we faced off, he was so used to Etched Champion effectively being unblockable that he accidentally ran it into my Wurmcoil Engine, costing him the game.
Game 1 he gets the nut draw and goes down to 1 or 2 cards in hand on turn 1 after a snapkeep of 7. I resist, but the mainboard isn't enough and I die a quick mechanical death.
Board for Game 2: oh my God so much. He was actually worried when he saw that I was boarding like SEVEN cards against him: 2 Claim, 1 Corrosion, 2 Aetherize, 2 Dismember (can't recall if Angel went in as well), replacing a Gifts, an Artisan, the Titan, 2 Condescend, and some other stuff.
Game 2 goes long and grindy, he keeps a much slower hand that I can actually interact timely with, I start turning the game around, and he scoops when I point out he doesn't have metalcraft on his Opal to cast the Tempered Steel last turn. I tell him he could still do it if he takes back the 3 damage from an attacking Blinkmoth, but he shrugs and says he didn't have much game beyond that anyway.
Game 3 also goes long and time gets called. I assemble Tron after resolving Creeping Corrosion and the lock happens turn 2 after time, "drawing" the game - but the nice lad concedes and says that was a really fun and well-played match and I deserve the win.
Powerplay of the match was in response to a near-lethal attack with a Plated Ornithopter, Gifts for Repeal, Claim, PowerPlant, Oblivion Stone with Breeding Pool open and PowerPlant missing from the Tron. He gives me Repeal and Nature's Claim, not knowing that I'm holding Loam and Cyclonic Rift (but draw into CC). 2-1
2-0 Round 3 - Traditional Affinity
I don't think I've been this salty since my loss at GP Toronto (when it was Modern and Deathrite Shaman was all the rage). The admitted worst matchup, and I get to see it two rounds in a row. Beautiful.
Game 1 I die. Not much to be said there, except for when the guy attempted to Spellskite a Repeal targeting an Ornithopter, and we have some laughs.
Board plan similar to last round
Game 2 I die. Way too quick for me to be able to deal. 0-2
2-1 Round 4 - Kid Junk
This is also an awkward one, because Smiters are uncounterable and Voices make me sad. If I were to replay the matchup, I think I'd do considerably better since that was my first time facing it myself, but here ... disappointment everywhere. Both games over quick, Game 2 Tron refuses to cooperate, and I die once to Liege-powered Smiter, once to Rhino. So bad. I feel like we should have a lot more game here, but... 0-2
Finish was 2-2. Cutoff for credit is 3-1, so I go home a sad panda.
THOUGHTS:
-With the balance of control, between bounce and counterspells, we can dominate midrange (short of disruption after disruption)
-With counterspells, we have a means of defense against combo
-With the threat density and threat quality, we have a strong game against control.
Two things missing here: RG Tron, and hyper-aggro
RG Tron, as I mentioned before, is a horrid match for us because they do the same thing we do except faster and more consistently. They near-blank our main control methods (Repeal and Condescend) by having their own threats that cost a lot of mana and force us to tap out and not even deal with things permanently. Our one leg up on them is if we can disrupt them early (Repeal a Map or Chromatic they were hoping to use, Ghost Quarter lock with Loam, etc) and hope that they stumble hard enough for us to assemble and take over. It's doable, but it's tough and requires tricky play to catch them with their figurative pants down.
Hyper-aggro decks (Zoo, Affinity, even the Kid Junk deck) are terrible for us because they kill us before we can set up, and we cannot deal with their things fast enough. Zoo is more or less okay, we can Repeal their Cats, Condescend their Goyfs, etc. Affinity is .. special. Hard to counter when their hand is empty as you lay your first land.
Yes, these are popular decks. Yes, "but what about Affinity?" is a question that Modern deckbuilders need to concern themselves with.
I think that what it means for this deck is that, if your meta is plagued with hyper-aggressive decks, the sideboard becomes the most powerful tool we can have. Sure, single bullets are okay, but what we need to deal with is a broad archetype (and thankfully, we only really have issues with ONE archetype).
Yes, this could very well mean that boarding seven or more cards could very well be an option. But if it keeps us alive...
I think the next iteration of my sideboard will keep specific key things, like Tormod's Crypt vs grave decks, or Gaia's Revenge as a difficult-to-deal-with threat for control, and Platinum Angel/Emperion vs combo. But the rest of it will be tools for decks that play faster than we do, so that we can interact with them:
Spell Snare
Spell Pierce
Dismember
Echoing Truth
Nature's Claim
These are all cards that we don't want to play because if we can survive and drag the game on longer, we prefer to get value out of our delaying stuff. If they're faster than we can delay them, then we need to become faster. I think that's the key to playing this side of UG Tron, and I think this has serious potential if we can figure out how to counter this problem (pun intended).
Until next time, and good luck
DN
xMage: Jankmaster
Commander - Now Playing
WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUW RHomura, Human AscendantR RGBorborygmos EnragedGR URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing
BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRB URSaheeli, the GiftedRU WRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
I have been working on a new deck that uses an idea from legacys dark depths combo with colossus of akros as the main attraction.In my build I can have it monstrous turn four.
I am NOT running the gifts package but I am running mindslaver lock.
I use affinity creatures as chumps with drums for the colored mana and early game defense.
I dig using thoughtcast and sylvan scrying.
Maps and fabricate are there too.
I'll post a list later tonight when im back.
http://www.wizardryfoundry.com
Current Deck:
It's not legendary like depths either.
I'll post my unorthodox list.
Here it is.
2 sundering titan
1 steel hellkite
1 spellskite
1 magus of the candelabra
4 ornithopter
2 memnite
1 ugin, the spirit dragon
4 sylvan scrying
3 thoughtcast
1 interpret the signs
1 animist's awakening
1 spell burst
4 chromatic star
2 expedition map
2 not of this world
1 mindslaver
4 urza's mine
4 urza's power plant
4 urza's tower
2 breeding pool
2 city of brass
2 academy ruins
1 misty rainforest
1 island
1 forest
Card choices-
Ornithopter and memnite, act as chump blocks and mana dorks with the sprinleaf drum while also increasing the artifact count.
Tron has little for creatures and suffers from early attacks so by adding in free creatures we stand a better chance of surviving until we can get tron online and get some board presence.
The memnites are also the flex slots, generally I'll pull them for counterspells (remand)if needed.
Colossus of akros is the main attraction,I can usually get it on the field and monstrous T4,sometimes T5 if I'm digging for it or tron pieces.Hes a HUGE beatstick and hard to remove once he sticks,the indestructible is great but the trample is what takes the games,once he sticks most opponents scoop.
sundering titan is a well known staple of this deck,here he really shines thanks to the springleaf drum and chromatic star.Hes an alternative beater that is the go to if colossus of akros didn't stick or wasn't in hand at the time tron was assembled.When it enters or leaves the battlefield he clears lands which for most decks is GG.
steel hellkite is like engineering explosives on 5/5 flying body and it self buffs for colorless mana.Also a good card against affinity. Its another flexcard and I usually side it out for etched champion when champion is better.
spellskite is a must,its so helpful and survives bolt.The single is all that needed.
magus of the candelabra is a great addition,it maximizes the tron count and can more than double your mana which allows for huge drops.
ugin, the spirit dragon is the only planeswalker in the deck.He is a better fit here than karn I believe and is more effective the turn it comes out in my opinion than karn in this particular build. I chose only one since he's an alternative win-con.
Sylvan scrying the main land search,its one mana less than map,gets tron online faster and gets academy ruins for the mindslaver combo.Its a four of.
Thoughtcast works well for card draw in this build,usually it only costs 1 mana thanks to the high artifact count.It has become a card to rely on,three is a good number.Four is too much since slots is an issue and the third one is a flex card.I usually side in a copy of natural state for it.
interpret the signs,with either colossus or titan costing 8cmc putting one of those on top to scry equals draw 8 cards,dont think I've ever drawn less,its as close to a one time ugins ultimate.
Animist's awakening,well I'm on the fence still,it's ok,ive had it dead in hand but I've also used it and whenever I used it I usually assembled tron or whatever I needed color wise.Another flex card that I side out for another natural state
Not of this world,I love it, tap out to drop colossus or titan and watch opponents face when they try to remove it and you counter for ZERO mana.It's fun and has had good results so far.
spellburst is good for the buyback feature,im still testing,hence the single copy,but so far it's performed well.We have the mana!
springleaf drum is for mana fixing.It allows for a turn one colored mana source with a tron land down and we can still put out T1 map with it.It has been so good with the thopter and nites that I think it should be moved to core slots in this build
expedition map,digs for Tron lands, it's one more mana to dig than sylvan so it's been downgraded to two.
chromatic star provides both card draw and color fixing and also helps to increase the artifact count early game for thoughtcast.
mindslaver, its a staple combo for the deck, I will side out the combo for a single land and two remand if I need more counters or I don't feel like I can stick the combo.
I'd like to do a primer based off this build of mine but I don't know how.Hopefully I've outlined the basics.Ill edit it with more information like sideboard and why those choices as well as what I usually side out for them.
I would love feedback as well as other ideas that might work out in this build.
If you have something more up to date let me know.
UBRNicol Bolas, the RavagerUBR
R Jaya Ballard, Task Mage R
2DH / Budget Commanders:
WMangara of Corondor 2DHW
BRXantcha, Sleeper Agent 2DHBR