If you are looking into white then Ranger of Eos would be good call. It grabs Cryptbreaker and Gravecrawler to give a big bump in drawing cards. It can also grab Viscera Seer who is very good. The more I play the more I want a good sac outlet.
Ranger looks good! Right now i'm testing something else in the flex slots (see list below) but I might try it out someday.
I've considered anguished unmaking but i don't know how much better it is than what i got. For creatures it is a terrible path to exile, and blessed alliance allows me to hit them throught almost anything. Wail of the nim sweeps small stuff. For artifact and enchants fragmentize is super efficient. Plus the 3 life matters and can add up with thoughtseize and lands and draws from cryptbreaker. Unmaking seems like a worst version of everything else i got.
The value of Anguished Unmaking is it hits all non-land permanents. It's rarely ever dead. It's not a card one wants four-of, but it saves side-board space by covering multiple bases.
Saving sideboard space is valuable. This is why i'm running 2x wail of the nim instead of 2x zealous persecution plus 2x something like rootborn defenses. However in the blow things up departement, i'm not interested in saving space, i want to be running a full 4x disenchant type card. I'm using dredge logic, which run 4x nature's claim (plus ancient grudge as well). Since i want 4x of this effect i'm enclined to pick the most efficient card, which is fragmentize.
One upside of anguished unmaking is blowing up planeswalkers: If i want to be killing creatures all the other options i run are better, and for artifacts/enchantments fragmentize is also better. Against nahiri, the harbinger deck, I would not want to pay 3 life and get myself in lightning bolt range, but it might still be ok. I guess the card would be fine vs sun and moon. Liliana of the veil i don't care much about.
The real issue is uncertainty. You'll want to bring unmaking if you don't know what the opponent is siding against you. If they bring rest in peace/grafdigger's cage/leyline of the void then you want fragmentize. If they bring surgical extraction then at least unmaking will do something, as opposed to fragmentize. This is the guessing game dredge plays every game 2. And also there are a few deck were fragmentize will not be dead even if they don't have hate in the form of permanents. Regardless, i'll try unmaking as a one of, but i really don't like the card.
With that being said this is what i'll be trying out next week:
Giving lingering souls a try in the fleshbag marauder slot, i've struggled vs flyers and the additional synergy/value with discard outlets seem strong.
So i ended up strating by trying out the white splash first, in part because i already owned the lands, because tidehollow sculler was mentioned and it is great and also because of great sideboard cards.
Its not that i don't like the green version, i had the intention of trying both green and white splashes, so i started with white in part because i already owned the lands. I don't have any of the green black lands, when i get them i will try the green version and see which i like better.
From my experience, white gives me great sideboard options, although green gives us golgari charm (which is a lot better than wail of the nim for sure). One thing i DO like about white is access to path to exile. The card is very well positioned right now, and green doesn't offer any catch all removal that mono-black can't play. It does offer abrupt decay but it doesn't hit bigger creatures, which is a huge issue in some matchups.
Also on the tidehollow sculler vs lotleth troll, one isn't better than the other, they just don't do the same thing. I do like me some additional disruption. With 4x sculler, i have 12 hand disruption cards (including thoughtseize x4 and collective brutality x4) plus 12 creature removal cards (including path x4, brutality x4, blasting station x2 and vengeful pharaoh x2), which makes to deck able to attack different strategies. Lotleth troll is a good beater and playing 4x allows you to have 12 discard outlets (with cryptbreaker x4 and collective brutality x4). If i was to play green, i would consider playing the Haakon, stromgald scourge + nameless inversion combo again, because it seems a bit sad to have all these engines with only 2x pharaoh and 4x gravecrawler to discard for profit.
So i'll keep playing the white version for a while because i like it better than the mono-black version, but i'll certainly give the green splash a shot when i get the lands, (which may take a while, but there's no hurry).
green doesn't offer any catch all removal that mono-black can't play.
Maelstrom Pulse is a card no GB deck should ever be without.
Yeah but you play like 2 max, i meant a catch all creature removal that is efficient and that you play 4x. Path to exile and lightning bolt are the best at that and in the green version dismember is still the best option i would think.
So moving forward i've tested a bit with sorin, solemn visitor (which was in craig wescoe's deck) and it is very strong. I like that you can gain the life right away as opposed to waiting a full turn with kalitas, traitor of ghet. The vampire token kind of covers the deck's weakness to flying creatures.
Still missing a couple of fetches to replace caves of koilos for better blood moon resilience. Still not playing basic plains because i'm not willing to invest in marsh flats right now (i might when they get reprinted enventually). Really enjoying the white splash for now!
So i'm done testing the white splash, i will now try to aquire the pieces for the green version. In the meantime i'll be revisiting my mono-b list with a little twist:
Adding back rotting rats because it allows me to pull off the draw step soft-lock i have been talking about, and it is just a fine synergistic card anyways.
Also trying out stinkweed imp. As you know we struggle a bit against flyers and hardcasted imp is just great here. It also enables good plays with diregraf colossus, we can easily bin it turn 2, dredge it turn 3 and have a bigger colossus to play on curve, with all the benefits of possibly putting crawlers, pharaohs, etc in the grave. You can also get additional dredges with cryptbreaker draws, and i imagine this will only get better in the lotleth troll version!
Added some fetchlands i owned, only 4 polluted delta for now. Their purpose is to play around relic of progenitus and maybe force the opponent to crack it earlier than they would without the fetchlands. Just crack a fetch in response to relic's first ability, and you save a card from being exiled, unless the opponent sacs the relic! You can also get rid of a vengeful pharaoh if you don't need them anymore, and have a chance to draw a fresh new card. The thinning is a very marginal benefit.
With the printing of fatal push is see no reason to splash white for path to exile anymore. Finally black has its own lightning bolt impression! Will definitely play 4x in my mono-black deck, i'll just have to add more fetchlands, which is not an issue at all.
Also i've had bad results with the green splash so far... i'm really enjoying the mono-black list the most.
I have a very light blue splash to play 4-of compelling deterrence, been liking it's versatility with the discard clause but I'll likely move down on the number now we have fatal push
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Gave haakon, stromgald scourge + nameless inversion a last try tonight and it conforted me in my position of not playing the combo ever again. Went 2-2, beating blue tron and slivers, and losing to b/g midrange (no splash) and zoo/burn. I really hate inversion, lost to b/g because it couln't kill stupid scavenging ooze both games. Lost to burn because as i tried to remove a wild nacatl, my opponent responded with a pump spell, dealing me 3 extra damage because of inversion and preventing me from killing the cat... the card is trash!
Moving on this is what i'd like to run post AER release:
Split 2:2 between push and dismember, for what push can't kill. I'm also not sure i want to play Kalitas, traitor of ghet anymore, tapping out for 4 and getting it removed with push seems super bad... The flex slots are the 2x stinkweed imp. I've though about playing Sidisi, undead vizier as an anti push + value zombie fatty, thoughts?
Alright so big changes for the new upcoming metagame. I was inspired by these videos to try out a devotion build. With fatal push coming in i want to play 100% creatures that pass the "push test". All the devotion guys happen to be zombies, so why not?
I opted for withered wretch in the sideboard because it is a zombie, it provides devotion and it can use all the extra mana from nykthos to exile lots of stuff.
Sideboard is still a work in progress but it's very similar to your list. I haven't really tested the deck and it's been thrown together with cards that I have in my collection. Any thoughts?
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Not in love with altar's reap and bone splinters, permanent and reusable sac outlets are better than one-shot stuff, since you can go turbo sac with gravecrawler. Not having that option greatly diminishes the utility of nykthos ramp. Also you want all your mana available when saccing stuff in order to abuse relentless dead's multiple die triggers.
Alright back from testing yesterday in a small tournament, with the list 3 posts above. Went 3-1:
R1 win 2-0 vs u/w death and taxes
R2 loss 0-2 vs boros burn
R3 win 2-0 flicker rhino
R4 win vs u/b delver
The main thing to note is that i wasn't able to cast gray merchant of asphodel once! 5 mana is a lot and a lot of the time i want to pitch extra lands to cryptbreaker for zombie tokens. Nykthos, shrine to nyx was ok but probably better as a one of.
So i'm definitely taking out gray merchants for a lower cc drop, will have to think about what i want there.
Just taking a little break from studying, so I don't have time to read the whole thread. But here's my recent take on Zombies... It splashes blue and white. The splashes are primarily for Thought Scour and Tidehollow Sculler. I really like Fatal Push in the deck, it has some cute interactions with Relentless Dead, and allowed me to drop Vapor Snag which IMO was the worst performing card in the list. The interaction with Relentless Dead is useful in match-ups where Fatal push is dead (Tron, Valakut). So the interaction is essentially, Push your own Relentless dead and pay 2 to reanimate Tidehollow Sculler (Or another zombie, preferabbly with an ETB effect) and B to rebuy your Relentless Dead.
Anyways, here the list. Which in my last few test sessions performed above my expectations against Jund and Tron. It also confirmed my expectations by sweeping U/W control and Jeskai Control. ALl of this was accomplished without a sideboard, btw, which I think speaks to the potential of the deck.
With Fatal Push giving mono black lists a huge boost it makes me want to revisit this deck again, it's really my go-to casual deck too so like to keep it relevant. By adding the removal you want to be looking have Revolt enabled whenever you need it. Dying Zombies trigger Revolt.... which also activates Morbid. This makes me want to include Tragic Slip for the ultimate creature removal suite. Backed up by discard spells it offers a very good noncreature base for the deck. Including Mortarpod (perhaps Viscera Seer, they're interchangeable) is just a pet card of mine as it is up there in my cards of all time. It is also really good when paired with Gravecrawler for Revolt/Morbid. Here is the list I'm looking at.
The deck can get some crazy value plays going with a Sac Outlet + Gravecrawler + Diregraf Colossus. Costing B on every loop to get a 2/2 is great. I really think it needs more sac outlets though, so I'd be inclined to do -1 Vengeful Pharaoh to the sideboard and +1 Viscera Seer. Liliana of the Veil would be a good card to add as she is synergistic with the entire deck. I could probably even drop the discard a bit too. Thoughts?
My sacrifice outlet of choice is Blasting Station. Mortarpod needs Puresteel Paladin to be really effective. That's not a viable option here, the Zombies would pick on him.
GBx decks run Liliana of the Veil and six discard spells sometimes with one, or more rarely, two copies of Collective Brutality. Lily isn't going to discard anything until turn-three, so if you want discard before then, six is probably still the correct number and Brutality can't really be counted there. Liliana, the Last Hope could be a pseudo-sacrifice outlet. LotV can do that too of course, but LotH does it with the +1 which is so much better.
I recall Tragic Slip with much fondness from its Standard days. Token decks and Zombie decks seem to be a good home for it.
Vampiric Rites seems like a profitable card in a Zombie recursion deck, if not exactly in theme. I've always thought some Vampires get along quite well with Zombies. Bloodghast and Blood Artist come to mind. But I guess I'm babbling now, so I'll just stop.
R2 win 2-0 vs mono-blue faeries, again thanks to station/crawler combo
R3 win 2-1 vs affinity, once again off of the station/crawler combo and well timed ratchet bombs.
R4 loss 1-2 vs Doran, the siege tower/assault formation aggro. G2 mulled to 5 and lost. G3 everything was under control until we went on topdeck mode. My opponent drew back to back path to exile and threats, while i was flooded.
Lessons learned: i was again unimpressed with the devotion package. Gray merchant of asphodel is only good when you already have a good board. It won't pull you back when you are behind, which is unacceptable for a 5 drop. Nykthos, shrine to nyx was a liability, it often made me not being able to cast geralf's messenger on turn 3. There is a conflict between the two cards, and they are ment to go with one another... and nykthos's ramp hasn't been relevant even once in the last two tournaments i tested it. Mutavault was also missed, messenger's heavy black mana cost puts too much pressure on my lands, not allowing me to play any of the colorless lands.
Moving forward: i'm definitely cutting the devotion package, and going back with diregraf colossus. I like how the colossus is still ok under RIP and such, whereas messenger is not that good vs hate. Also i really enjoyed fleshbag marauder and dark salvation. They provide tons of value and are still functional under hate. Fatal push is super good, i'll likely max out on them since the rest of my removal suite can deal with things it doesn't hit.
R3 win 2-1 vs affinity, once again off of the station/crawler combo and well timed ratchet bombs.
While they are equal when used at X=0, Engineered Explosives seems generally better for X=1 or X=2. Obviously, you can't get EE to X=3 with only two colors. Is Ratchet Bomb just a budget call? Or do you really expect to get to 3+?
R3 win 2-1 vs affinity, once again off of the station/crawler combo and well timed ratchet bombs.
While they are equal when used at X=0, Engineered Explosives seems generally better for X=1 or X=2. Obviously, you can't get EE to X=3 with only two colors. Is Ratchet Bomb just a budget call? Or do you really expect to get to 3+?
If you look at my list or my last 2-3 posts, you will see that i am now mono-black, so explosives is unplayable in my deck.
I've been messing around with Cryptbreaker in various shells like Mardu, Pox, and Gate builds. Don't see anybody else playing with it in those builds so I've come here to ask you guys/gals who are playing them what your impressions are. I've found it to be a good card with a lot of ways to be used both for combat attacks and card draw. It works especially nice with Mutavault and I've always been a big Pack Rat player so I see the same potential in Cryptbreaker.
@Ace1 you should definitely be playing some Mutavaults here I would think especially w/ the synergy they bring with Cryptbreaker and Gravecrawler. I would also suggest more Urborgs as they can be sacced to the legend rule to activate revolt or easily pitched to Cryptbreaker for a zombie also. Of course they also help offset and enable running more non-black mana producing lands.
I haven't done it myself yet but playing Zombardment in Modern with Station and Crawler is on my list of things to do. Is there a functional way we could get this combo to go infinite?
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I've been messing around with Cryptbreaker in various shells like Mardu, Pox, and Gate builds. Don't see anybody else playing with it in those builds so I've come here to ask you guys/gals who are playing them what your impressions are. I've found it to be a good card with a lot of ways to be used both for combat attacks and card draw. It works especially nice with Mutavault and I've always been a big Pack Rat player so I see the same potential in Cryptbreaker.
@Ace1 you should definitely be playing some Mutavaults here I would think especially w/ the synergy they bring with Cryptbreaker and Gravecrawler. I would also suggest more Urborgs as they can be sacced to the legend rule to activate revolt or easily pitched to Cryptbreaker for a zombie also. Of course they also help offset and enable running more non-black mana producing lands.
I haven't done it myself yet but playing Zombardment in Modern with Station and Crawler is on my list of things to do. Is there a functional way we could get this combo to go infinite?
I used Blasting Station for infinite combo with Melira or Anafenza and Kitchen Finks. Murderous Redcap would work in a BGx shell with Melira, of course, but I can't think a way to go infinite with Zombies. In conjunction with an infinite mana combo, sure, but I don't know of any way to do that in Zombie colors either. None of this means it can't be done with Zombies - what do I know? But Persist creatures have the free recursion built in so that gives them a leg-up in the combo arena.
R3 win 2-0 vs esper control. A nice side effect of fatal push is less path to exile, sometimes. Yay! My recursion matched well with his removal and sweepers.
R4 win 2-0 vs merfolk. My removal got there. Also G1 he was playing main deck chalice of the void and he set it on 1 on his turn 2. I played diregraf colossus and the next turn when i untapped i was able to go full tokens frenzy by repeatedly casting gravecrawler from my grave and have chalice counter it, sending back in the grave. So basically one zombie token for each black mana, not bad!
Lessons learned: i like my 60 for now. I could make adjustments to improve burn matchups maybe. Will try to get fatal push #3-4 before next week. Haven't played vs big mana decks yet to try out contaminated ground from the sideboard, which i am looking forward to testing.
Haven't played vs big mana decks yet to try out contaminated ground from the sideboard, which i am looking forward to testing.
Evil Presence is an option. It doesn't do any damage, but it can be cast turn-one, or turn-two along with a one-drop or discard.
I considered evil presence, but like spreading seas is better than sea's claim, contaminated ground is probably better than its one mana cousin. You don't get to draw a card, but the life loss contributes to your clock, which is important if you want to beat big mana decks. Costing two mana is fine because it comes down just in time to shut off tron. The difference between one mana and two mana isn't as much of a big deal than between two and three when playing vs tron.
Adapted a bit to be able to beat various burn/aggro decks, pretty happy with the 75 so far.
loss 1-2 vs u/w death ad taxes, got owned game 3 by a bear wearing spectral flight, protected by spellskite...
win 2-1 vs u/b delver
win 2-0 vs jund, renlentless dead mvp, chumping goyfs all day, bringing back my guys.
win 2-0 vs mono-green devotion, got the station + relentless dead + fleshbag marauder lock to kill every fatty. G2 double copter kept me drawing gas. Opposing double relic of progenitus wasn’t enough.
Ranger looks good! Right now i'm testing something else in the flex slots (see list below) but I might try it out someday.
Saving sideboard space is valuable. This is why i'm running 2x wail of the nim instead of 2x zealous persecution plus 2x something like rootborn defenses. However in the blow things up departement, i'm not interested in saving space, i want to be running a full 4x disenchant type card. I'm using dredge logic, which run 4x nature's claim (plus ancient grudge as well). Since i want 4x of this effect i'm enclined to pick the most efficient card, which is fragmentize.
One upside of anguished unmaking is blowing up planeswalkers: If i want to be killing creatures all the other options i run are better, and for artifacts/enchantments fragmentize is also better. Against nahiri, the harbinger deck, I would not want to pay 3 life and get myself in lightning bolt range, but it might still be ok. I guess the card would be fine vs sun and moon. Liliana of the veil i don't care much about.
The real issue is uncertainty. You'll want to bring unmaking if you don't know what the opponent is siding against you. If they bring rest in peace/grafdigger's cage/leyline of the void then you want fragmentize. If they bring surgical extraction then at least unmaking will do something, as opposed to fragmentize. This is the guessing game dredge plays every game 2. And also there are a few deck were fragmentize will not be dead even if they don't have hate in the form of permanents. Regardless, i'll try unmaking as a one of, but i really don't like the card.
With that being said this is what i'll be trying out next week:
4 thoughtseize
4 collective brutality
2 lingering souls
creatures: 22
4 cryptbreaker
4 gravecrawler
4 tidehollow sculler
4 relentless dead
4 diregraf colossus
2 vengeful pharaoh
4 path to exile
artifacts: 2
2 blasting station
lands: 22
4 polluted delta
2 godless shrine
5 swamp
1 Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4 concealed courtyard
2 caves of koilos
2 cavern of souls
2 mutavault
1 anguished unmaking
2 surgical extraction
2 wail of the nim
2 blessing alliance
2 pay no heed
2 ghost quarter
4 fragmentize
Giving lingering souls a try in the fleshbag marauder slot, i've struggled vs flyers and the additional synergy/value with discard outlets seem strong.
Its not that i don't like the green version, i had the intention of trying both green and white splashes, so i started with white in part because i already owned the lands. I don't have any of the green black lands, when i get them i will try the green version and see which i like better.
From my experience, white gives me great sideboard options, although green gives us golgari charm (which is a lot better than wail of the nim for sure). One thing i DO like about white is access to path to exile. The card is very well positioned right now, and green doesn't offer any catch all removal that mono-black can't play. It does offer abrupt decay but it doesn't hit bigger creatures, which is a huge issue in some matchups.
Also on the tidehollow sculler vs lotleth troll, one isn't better than the other, they just don't do the same thing. I do like me some additional disruption. With 4x sculler, i have 12 hand disruption cards (including thoughtseize x4 and collective brutality x4) plus 12 creature removal cards (including path x4, brutality x4, blasting station x2 and vengeful pharaoh x2), which makes to deck able to attack different strategies. Lotleth troll is a good beater and playing 4x allows you to have 12 discard outlets (with cryptbreaker x4 and collective brutality x4). If i was to play green, i would consider playing the Haakon, stromgald scourge + nameless inversion combo again, because it seems a bit sad to have all these engines with only 2x pharaoh and 4x gravecrawler to discard for profit.
So i'll keep playing the white version for a while because i like it better than the mono-black version, but i'll certainly give the green splash a shot when i get the lands, (which may take a while, but there's no hurry).
Maelstrom Pulse is a card no GB deck should ever be without.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Yeah but you play like 2 max, i meant a catch all creature removal that is efficient and that you play 4x. Path to exile and lightning bolt are the best at that and in the green version dismember is still the best option i would think.
So moving forward i've tested a bit with sorin, solemn visitor (which was in craig wescoe's deck) and it is very strong. I like that you can gain the life right away as opposed to waiting a full turn with kalitas, traitor of ghet. The vampire token kind of covers the deck's weakness to flying creatures.
Today I got the chance to pull off the draw step lockdown i mentioned in my previous post (with relentless dead, tidehollow sculler and blasting station) and it was pretty sweet!
The rest of my list is the same, except for a one of lingering souls in the side:
4 thoughtseize
4 collective brutality
creatures: 22
4 cryptbreaker
4 gravecrawler
4 tidehollow sculler
4 relentless dead
4 diregraf colossus
2 vengeful pharaoh
instants: 4
4 path to exile
2 blasting station
planeswalkers: 2
2 sorin, solemn visitor
lands: 22
4 polluted delta
2 godless shrine
5 swamp
1 Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4 concealed courtyard
2 caves of koilos
2 cavern of souls
2 mutavault
1 lingering souls
2 surgical extraction
2 wail of the nim
2 fleshbag marauder
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 ghost quarter
4 fragmentize
Still missing a couple of fetches to replace caves of koilos for better blood moon resilience. Still not playing basic plains because i'm not willing to invest in marsh flats right now (i might when they get reprinted enventually). Really enjoying the white splash for now!
4 thoughtseize
4 collective brutality
creatures: 23
4 cryptbreaker
4 gravecrawler
4 relentless dead
2 rotting rats
4 diregraf colossus
2 stinkweed imp
1 Kalitas, traitor of ghet
2 vengeful pharaoh
4 dismember
artifacts: 3
1 smuggler's copter
2 blasting station
lands: 22
12 swamp
4 polluted delta
1 Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
1 Shizo, death's storehouse
2 cavern of souls
2 mutavault
3 ratchet bomb
2 ghost quarter
2 duress
2 wail of the nim
2 surgical extraction
2 big game hunter
2 stromgald crusader
Adding back rotting rats because it allows me to pull off the draw step soft-lock i have been talking about, and it is just a fine synergistic card anyways.
Also trying out stinkweed imp. As you know we struggle a bit against flyers and hardcasted imp is just great here. It also enables good plays with diregraf colossus, we can easily bin it turn 2, dredge it turn 3 and have a bigger colossus to play on curve, with all the benefits of possibly putting crawlers, pharaohs, etc in the grave. You can also get additional dredges with cryptbreaker draws, and i imagine this will only get better in the lotleth troll version!
Added some fetchlands i owned, only 4 polluted delta for now. Their purpose is to play around relic of progenitus and maybe force the opponent to crack it earlier than they would without the fetchlands. Just crack a fetch in response to relic's first ability, and you save a card from being exiled, unless the opponent sacs the relic! You can also get rid of a vengeful pharaoh if you don't need them anymore, and have a chance to draw a fresh new card. The thinning is a very marginal benefit.
Thoughts?
Also i've had bad results with the green splash so far... i'm really enjoying the mono-black list the most.
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BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Gave haakon, stromgald scourge + nameless inversion a last try tonight and it conforted me in my position of not playing the combo ever again. Went 2-2, beating blue tron and slivers, and losing to b/g midrange (no splash) and zoo/burn. I really hate inversion, lost to b/g because it couln't kill stupid scavenging ooze both games. Lost to burn because as i tried to remove a wild nacatl, my opponent responded with a pump spell, dealing me 3 extra damage because of inversion and preventing me from killing the cat... the card is trash!
Moving on this is what i'd like to run post AER release:
2 inquisition of kozilek
2 thoughtseize
4 collective brutality
creatures: 22
4 cryptbreaker
4 gravecrawler
4 relentless dead
2 rotting rats
4 diregraf colossus
2 stinkweed imp
2 vengeful pharaoh
2 fatal push
2 dismember
artifacts: 4
2 smuggler's copter
2 blasting station
lands: 22
1 Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
9 swamp
4 bloodstained mire
4 polluted delta
2 cavern of souls
2 mutavault
3 ratchet bomb
2 fleshbag marauder
2 vampiric link
2 ghost quarter
2 duress
2 wail of the nim
2 surgical extraction
Split 2:2 between push and dismember, for what push can't kill. I'm also not sure i want to play Kalitas, traitor of ghet anymore, tapping out for 4 and getting it removed with push seems super bad... The flex slots are the 2x stinkweed imp. I've though about playing Sidisi, undead vizier as an anti push + value zombie fatty, thoughts?
2 inquisition of kozilek
2 thoughtseize
2 collective brutality
creatures: 22
4 cryptbreaker
4 gravecrawler
4 relentless dead
2 rotting rats
4 geralf's messenger
2 gray merchant of asphodel
2 vengeful pharaoh
2 fatal push
2 dismember
artifacts: 4
2 smuggler's copter
2 blasting station
planeswalkers: 2
2 Liliana of the veil
lands: 22
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
9 swamp
2 bloodstained mire
4 polluted delta
4 cavern of souls
2 Nykthos, shrine to nyx
3 ratchet bomb
2 ghost quarter
2 duress
2 wail of the nim
2 vampiric link
2 withered wretch
2 fleshbag marauder
I opted for withered wretch in the sideboard because it is a zombie, it provides devotion and it can use all the extra mana from nykthos to exile lots of stuff.
Thoughts?
My current list is below:
2 collective brutality
3 inquisition of Kozilek
4 smother
2 altars reap
2 bone splinters
Creatures
4 gravecrawler
4 relentless dead
2 cryptbreaker
4 Diegraf colossus
3 fleshbag marauder
1 cemetery reaper
1 undead warchief
1 Lord of the undead
1 death baron
2 gray merchant of asphodel
1 grave pact
1 dark prophecy
Land
1 nykthos,shrine to nyx
22 swamp
Sideboard is still a work in progress but it's very similar to your list. I haven't really tested the deck and it's been thrown together with cards that I have in my collection. Any thoughts?
Everyone loves an angry mob RWG
Why so Bloo? RU
As for your list i really don't like the lords at all. They fail the lightning bolt test and will fail the upcoming fatal push test as well.
Also not running geralf's messenger in a devotion shell is criminal .
Not in love with altar's reap and bone splinters, permanent and reusable sac outlets are better than one-shot stuff, since you can go turbo sac with gravecrawler. Not having that option greatly diminishes the utility of nykthos ramp. Also you want all your mana available when saccing stuff in order to abuse relentless dead's multiple die triggers.
R1 win 2-0 vs u/w death and taxes
R2 loss 0-2 vs boros burn
R3 win 2-0 flicker rhino
R4 win vs u/b delver
The main thing to note is that i wasn't able to cast gray merchant of asphodel once! 5 mana is a lot and a lot of the time i want to pitch extra lands to cryptbreaker for zombie tokens. Nykthos, shrine to nyx was ok but probably better as a one of.
So i'm definitely taking out gray merchants for a lower cc drop, will have to think about what i want there.
Also i currently don't have any liliana of the veil so i'm playing fleshbag marauder and i love them! The synergy with geralf's messenger is great.
Just taking a little break from studying, so I don't have time to read the whole thread. But here's my recent take on Zombies... It splashes blue and white. The splashes are primarily for Thought Scour and Tidehollow Sculler. I really like Fatal Push in the deck, it has some cute interactions with Relentless Dead, and allowed me to drop Vapor Snag which IMO was the worst performing card in the list. The interaction with Relentless Dead is useful in match-ups where Fatal push is dead (Tron, Valakut). So the interaction is essentially, Push your own Relentless dead and pay 2 to reanimate Tidehollow Sculler (Or another zombie, preferabbly with an ETB effect) and B to rebuy your Relentless Dead.
Anyways, here the list. Which in my last few test sessions performed above my expectations against Jund and Tron. It also confirmed my expectations by sweeping U/W control and Jeskai Control. ALl of this was accomplished without a sideboard, btw, which I think speaks to the potential of the deck.
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 gravecrawler
4 Tidehollow Sculler
3 relentless dead
2 Gurmag Angler
Instant/Sorcery (18)
4 Thought-Scour
4 fatal push
3 Spell Pierce
1 Dismember
2 inquisition of kozilek
2 thoughtseize
1 collective brutality
1 Lingering Souls
3 Liliana, The last hope
1 Smuggler's Copter
land (21)
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Darkslick Shores
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Watery Grave
2 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Swamp
2 Viscera Seer
4 Cryptbreaker
4 Gravecrawler
4 Relentless Dead
4 Diregraf Colossus
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Vengeful Pharaoh
2 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Fatal Push
3 Tragic Slip
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
Lands
12 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Crypt of Agadeem
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Mutavault
The deck can get some crazy value plays going with a Sac Outlet + Gravecrawler + Diregraf Colossus. Costing B on every loop to get a 2/2 is great. I really think it needs more sac outlets though, so I'd be inclined to do -1 Vengeful Pharaoh to the sideboard and +1 Viscera Seer. Liliana of the Veil would be a good card to add as she is synergistic with the entire deck. I could probably even drop the discard a bit too. Thoughts?
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
GBx decks run Liliana of the Veil and six discard spells sometimes with one, or more rarely, two copies of Collective Brutality. Lily isn't going to discard anything until turn-three, so if you want discard before then, six is probably still the correct number and Brutality can't really be counted there. Liliana, the Last Hope could be a pseudo-sacrifice outlet. LotV can do that too of course, but LotH does it with the +1 which is so much better.
I recall Tragic Slip with much fondness from its Standard days. Token decks and Zombie decks seem to be a good home for it.
Vampiric Rites seems like a profitable card in a Zombie recursion deck, if not exactly in theme. I've always thought some Vampires get along quite well with Zombies. Bloodghast and Blood Artist come to mind. But I guess I'm babbling now, so I'll just stop.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Went 3-1 using this list:
2 inquisition of kozilek
2 thoughtseize
1 dark salvation
2 collective brutality
creatures: 23
4 cryptbreaker
4 gravecrawler
4 relentless dead
2 rotting rats
4 Geralf's messenger
2 fleshbag marauder
2 vengeful pharaoh
1 gray merchant of asphodel
2 fatal push
2 dismember
artifacts: 4
2 smuggler's copter
2 blasting station
lands: 22
1 Nykthos, shrine to nyx
1 Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
10 swamp
4 polluted delta
4 bloodstained mire
2 cavern of souls
4 contaminated ground
3 ratchet bomb
2 duress
2 wail of the nim
2 suffer the past
2 fleshbag marauder
R1 win 2-0 vs eldrazi and taxes.G1 won off of the blasting station/gravecrawler combo. G2 won through a rest in peace by drawing tons of cards with cryptbreaker. My opponent never got the leonin arbiter/ghost quarter draw
R2 win 2-0 vs mono-blue faeries, again thanks to station/crawler combo
R3 win 2-1 vs affinity, once again off of the station/crawler combo and well timed ratchet bombs.
R4 loss 1-2 vs Doran, the siege tower/assault formation aggro. G2 mulled to 5 and lost. G3 everything was under control until we went on topdeck mode. My opponent drew back to back path to exile and threats, while i was flooded.
Lessons learned: i was again unimpressed with the devotion package. Gray merchant of asphodel is only good when you already have a good board. It won't pull you back when you are behind, which is unacceptable for a 5 drop. Nykthos, shrine to nyx was a liability, it often made me not being able to cast geralf's messenger on turn 3. There is a conflict between the two cards, and they are ment to go with one another... and nykthos's ramp hasn't been relevant even once in the last two tournaments i tested it. Mutavault was also missed, messenger's heavy black mana cost puts too much pressure on my lands, not allowing me to play any of the colorless lands.
Moving forward: i'm definitely cutting the devotion package, and going back with diregraf colossus. I like how the colossus is still ok under RIP and such, whereas messenger is not that good vs hate. Also i really enjoyed fleshbag marauder and dark salvation. They provide tons of value and are still functional under hate. Fatal push is super good, i'll likely max out on them since the rest of my removal suite can deal with things it doesn't hit.
While they are equal when used at X=0, Engineered Explosives seems generally better for X=1 or X=2. Obviously, you can't get EE to X=3 with only two colors. Is Ratchet Bomb just a budget call? Or do you really expect to get to 3+?
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
If you look at my list or my last 2-3 posts, you will see that i am now mono-black, so explosives is unplayable in my deck.
I've been messing around with Cryptbreaker in various shells like Mardu, Pox, and Gate builds. Don't see anybody else playing with it in those builds so I've come here to ask you guys/gals who are playing them what your impressions are. I've found it to be a good card with a lot of ways to be used both for combat attacks and card draw. It works especially nice with Mutavault and I've always been a big Pack Rat player so I see the same potential in Cryptbreaker.
@Ace1 you should definitely be playing some Mutavaults here I would think especially w/ the synergy they bring with Cryptbreaker and Gravecrawler. I would also suggest more Urborgs as they can be sacced to the legend rule to activate revolt or easily pitched to Cryptbreaker for a zombie also. Of course they also help offset and enable running more non-black mana producing lands.
I haven't done it myself yet but playing Zombardment in Modern with Station and Crawler is on my list of things to do. Is there a functional way we could get this combo to go infinite?
I play Magic: the Gathering, not Magic: the Commandering.
I used Blasting Station for infinite combo with Melira or Anafenza and Kitchen Finks. Murderous Redcap would work in a BGx shell with Melira, of course, but I can't think a way to go infinite with Zombies. In conjunction with an infinite mana combo, sure, but I don't know of any way to do that in Zombie colors either. None of this means it can't be done with Zombies - what do I know? But Persist creatures have the free recursion built in so that gives them a leg-up in the combo arena.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
2 inquisition of kozilek
2 thoughtseize
2 dark salvation
2 collective brutality
creatures: 22
4 cryptbreaker
4 gravecrawler
4 relentless dead
2 rotting rats
4 diregraf colossus
2 fleshbag marauder
2 vengeful pharaoh
2 fatal push
2 dismember
artifacts: 4
2 smuggler's copter
2 blasting station
lands: 22
1 Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
9 swamp
4 polluted delta
4 bloodstained mire
2 cavern of souls
2 mutavault
4 contaminated ground
3 ratchet bomb
2 duress
2 wail of the nim
2 suffer the past
2 big game hunter
R1 loss 0-2 vs naya burn, my opponent drew exactly 2 lands both games and had nothing but gas. G2 i mulled to 5 and flooded.
R2 win 2-0 vs training grounds combo, featuring pack rat, olivia voldaren, tasigur, the golden fang and izzet guildmage. He flooded both games and my removal kept his shenaningans in check.
R3 win 2-0 vs esper control. A nice side effect of fatal push is less path to exile, sometimes. Yay! My recursion matched well with his removal and sweepers.
R4 win 2-0 vs merfolk. My removal got there. Also G1 he was playing main deck chalice of the void and he set it on 1 on his turn 2. I played diregraf colossus and the next turn when i untapped i was able to go full tokens frenzy by repeatedly casting gravecrawler from my grave and have chalice counter it, sending back in the grave. So basically one zombie token for each black mana, not bad!
Lessons learned: i like my 60 for now. I could make adjustments to improve burn matchups maybe. Will try to get fatal push #3-4 before next week. Haven't played vs big mana decks yet to try out contaminated ground from the sideboard, which i am looking forward to testing.
Evil Presence is an option. It doesn't do any damage, but it can be cast turn-one, or turn-two along with a one-drop or discard.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
I considered evil presence, but like spreading seas is better than sea's claim, contaminated ground is probably better than its one mana cousin. You don't get to draw a card, but the life loss contributes to your clock, which is important if you want to beat big mana decks. Costing two mana is fine because it comes down just in time to shut off tron. The difference between one mana and two mana isn't as much of a big deal than between two and three when playing vs tron.
4 fatal push
sorceries: 8
4 inquisition of kozilek
4 collective brutality
artifacts: 4
2 smuggler's copter
2 blasting station
creatures: 22
4 cryptbreaker
4 gravecrawler
4 relentless dead
2 rotting rats
4 diregraf colossus
2 fleshbag marauder
2 vengeful pharaoh
1 Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
10 swamp
3 bloodstained mire
4 polluted delta
2 cavern of souls
2 mutavault
2 contaminated ground
2 ghost quarter
2 ratchet bomb
2 duress
2 wail of the nim
2 suffer the past
2 big game hunter
1 stromgald crusader
Adapted a bit to be able to beat various burn/aggro decks, pretty happy with the 75 so far.
loss 1-2 vs u/w death ad taxes, got owned game 3 by a bear wearing spectral flight, protected by spellskite...
win 2-1 vs u/b delver
win 2-0 vs jund, renlentless dead mvp, chumping goyfs all day, bringing back my guys.
win 2-0 vs mono-green devotion, got the station + relentless dead + fleshbag marauder lock to kill every fatty. G2 double copter kept me drawing gas. Opposing double relic of progenitus wasn’t enough.